This just shows how much BushCo has learned in three years! Not that there was anything for them to learn, since they knew everything.

Ford off the front page, and Edwards forgotten!!

Baghdad taken. Mission Accomplished.

Uday and Qusay Hussein killed. Mission Accomplished.

Al-Zarqawi killed. Mission Accomplished.

Sadam Hussein hung. Mission Accomplished.....

Almost as if we had picked sides....

I so enjoy watching the Christian fundamentalist lovers of Jesus and forgiveness relishing the "execution"...so typically hypocritical of them AND they can bash "dirty liberal bleeding hearts" at the same time...a TWOFER! There is little doubt this was a bad, bad man...in a long list of bad men...but he, too, has been USED in this political farce! It just keeps getting worse...but we're moving FORWARD TO A NEW DAY!!!

Crooks & Liars is the source of more good news!!

Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees.

Needless to say, no American decision-maker had the remotest notion of this symbolism.

I think at this time, now that Saddam is executed - which justifies our liberation of Iraq - we should be bi-partisan and support the troops. As even the liberal media reports, our troops CHEERED after hearing Saddam was executed. Questioning the judgments of our troops seems to be in bad taste.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,457170,00.html

"US troops cheered as news of Saddam's execution was broadcast on television in the mess hall at Forward Operating Base Loyalty in eastern Baghdad."

Al

No weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Qaeda, just a garden variety dictator, the type the US has supported for decades.

The scurrying, scuttling quality of his "execution" says more than rational criticism does.

No dignity in that crowd, period.

Saddam's trials were a mockery of justice, what with two lawyers being assassinated, judges quitting, the appeal process being denied and even laughed at, and when even every person facing capital punishment in the US gets an automatic appeal, what is Bush thinking? Does Bush think? Saddam didn’t even have the rudimentary measures of a decent or a fair trial.

Bush talks big democracy but that’s all it is, just talk, not action, not practice.

Bush has made a mockery of the importance to the Nuremberg trials.

After Bush let looting and vandalism take possession of Iraq days after the “major conflict� subsided it thus the hallmark of the Bush administrations intent to have no meaningful law or legal recourse for Iraqis citizens. Therefore, there has never been anything but anarchy in Iraq since Bush took over the country, since Bush didn't have even the rudimentary measures of any post war planning. The Bush administration saw fit only to protected the oil ministry building, as it was the only office building unscathed in Iraq after Bush's shock and awe, while the universities, schools, and the historic Iraq art museum were all destroyed.

Bush, with his actions might as well had said, “I give a damn about Iraqis, only their oil�.

Agreed, Al:

U.S. troops cheered as news of Saddam's execution appeared on television at the mess hall at Forward Operating Base Loyalty in eastern Baghdad. But some soldiers expressed doubt that Saddam's death would be a significant turning point for Iraq.

"First it was weapons of mass destruction. Then when there were none, it was that we had to find Saddam. We did that, but then it was that we had to put him on trial," said Spc. Thomas Sheck, 25, who is on his second tour in Iraq. "So now, what will be the next story they tell us to keep us over here?"

Saddam was an evil, evil person who killed thousands of people. I for one will not shed any tears for him. What liberals need to help the media focus on is the fact that he committed most of his atrocities under US sponsorship. We were very happy to support his dictatorship while he was standing up to Iran.

As far as the holiday goes, I don't want to sound callous, but doesn't it seem like every day is a "holy day" of one kind or another to Muslims? How many holidays can one religion have? It also does not seem to stop their death squads from killing anyone -- in fact fatalities when way up during Rammadan. Sure we can use sensitivity when planning things, but I can imagine the Iraqi gov't wanted to get this thing over quickly in order to stop people from building it up into an even bigger event than it was.

Teresa

Saddam's hanging is a comma, literally and figuratively.

Can we go home now?

Questioning the judgments of our troops seems to be in bad taste.

Questioning the judgments of our troops DOES seem to be in bad taste -- so I think we should listen carefully to their opinions expressed in the latest poll where a significant majority of them disapproved of Bush's handling of the war, exactly half of them don't expect us to "win" in Iraq, and only 41% of them said that the U.S. should ever had invaded Iraq in the first place.

Those are some pretty explosive judgments about this debacle from our troops. How do you suggest we answer them, Al?

As you point out, we should listen to and ponder the questions of men like Spc. Thomas Sheck, who asked

"First it was weapons of mass destruction. Then when there were none, it was that we had to find Saddam. We did that, but then it was that we had to put him on trial. So now, what will be the next story they tell us to keep us over here?"

Indeed, what will the next fabricated "story" be to explain the sacrifices of the life and limb of these soldiers?

Al, now that we've established the troops believe that Bush fucked up an invasion that they believe never should have happened in the first place, we expect that going forward you'll never question the troops' judgment on these matters again and take up the appropriate positions against the occupation and for bringing some sort of accountability to Bush.

Al is a dipshit. Our troops are to be listened to and respected, but there is nothing in bad taste about questioning anyone's judgment.

Just because Al is a fuckwad no need for anyone else to be.

Iraq will never be a united country, let's not kid ourselves. Lets remember that present day Iraq is just an artificial country drawn up by the British in the 1920s.

The truth of the matter is, our interests our best served in the long term by supporting the Kurds and certain elements within the Shia community. By continuing to pressure the Iraqi government to pursue some kind of "national unity" agenda, WE are CONTINUING the bloodshed and chaos, since the Kurds and Shia will never agree with the Sunni Arabs regarding the future of Iraq. Not only are we promoting an obstructionist agenda by encouraging a "national unity" government, but we are also alienating our only reliable allies thus far, the Shia and the Kurds.

Bush's Oedipal fantasy is so complete he slept right through the fanfare. I give Poppy six months to live.

Remember December, the deadliest month in 2006 for U.S. troops...108 dead...so far.

Does anyone see this execution for the barbarism that it is? We've sunk lower than our "enemies" and their "unchristian" ways. Shame on GW. Bush and shame on our national policy in Iraq!

Message to the Saddams and Noriegas of this world from the US Governmant:

Remember, we can help put you in power, we can sustain you in power, but, when it is to our political advantage, we can remove you from power. Wear you title and prestige well while you are in power, but you are merely our puppet. When we tire of you, we will have someone else in the wings.

yessir sez
The truth of the matter is...

There are a million "truths of the matter" floating around. You would give yourself a wee bit of credibility if you said, "in my opinion..."

Ah, Kevin.

I notice a lot of you libs, here and elsewhere, mourning the loss of this authoritarian evil man. Yet you would love to see Bush and Cheney impeached.

And then you wonder why we question what side you're on.

Is there a tear in the eye of George Schultz? Is there a tear in the eye of Don Rumsfeld?
Is there a tear in the eye of CIA operatives from 1958, when they helped Saddam start to climb the ladder?

Their buddy from the late 50s and, especially the 80s, has passed.

The death penalty is a display of cowardice, no matter where or why it's used. The fact that Americans somehow rejoice over Saddam's death is a testament to our dedication to Christianity. F^ck that, we're all about revenge. Nothing Christian about this nation.

Remember, we can help put you in power, we can sustain you in power, but, when it is to our political advantage, we can remove you from power. Wear you title and prestige well while you are in power, but you are merely our puppet. When we tire of you, we will have someone else in the wings.

Yes, the USofA is the global puppet master...NOT. There are a long list of bad guys we've supported that have been brought down by other forces (Shah), and a long list of bad guys we've actively attempted to undermine that are still around after 30+ years (Castro). The lists go on.

egbert, not a single person here is mourning the loss of Saddam. A lot of us see your lack of comprehension and question whether you are man or troll.

Theory: Saddam died unexpectedly in US hands (natural causes, suicide or murder), panic ensues, US doesn't want to have Saddam die in their custody. Massive confusion in Iraqi and US commuications and press releases. Quickly stage fake hanging with look-alike (many dozens around durig Saddam's rule. Hang already dead body to break neck. Debate whether to release body or not-can it be detected? Release incomplete ad fuzzy video pictures. Ask, is this how one of the most important PR opportunities in Iraq would be handled?

Bush knows how to drag us down to the level of Saddam. First a kangaroo trial, then a fast execution to make sure he takes all the ugly secrets with him .
I don't believe a democracy can grow on such a cesspool. Iraq is just one big disaster and a shame of our nation. Bush did not bring honor to the oval office.

Steve Benen whines as much as Kevin Drum. Sheesh.

Steve Benen whines about the day selected to execute Saddam. Don't know how much control we had versus how much al-Maliki and his government had on the date, but really --

-- who cares?

After all, one could always point to something and decry the execution. If one had a mind to do so, that is. Jerry, just above, says that "not a single person here is mourning the loss of Saddam".

Reeeeeaaally? From the Guardian to the NYT to here, I see a lot of people bleating and moaning about the execution in one way or another. Mr. Benen's complaint is just one more.

An evil, genocidal thug has been executed by his people. Sic semper tyrannis. Whether it's 'Christian' to rejoice over his death or not I don't know, but the world should breathe a little easier -- justice has been done.

I would feel really bad for the family of Gerald Ford right now except that what goes around comes around. You hired Cheney and Rumsfeld, Jerry, and they dissed you even in death for that Woodward interview.

Completely unbelievable Neal. No, no, what really happened is that Saddam has joined Ken Lay on the Carlyle Group's (aka SPECTRE) Board of Directors.

We were very happy to support his dictatorship while he was standing up to Iran.

Saddam didn't stand up to Iran, he invaded them.

That's not mourning the loss of Saddam dipshit, if anything, that's mourning the loss of the United States. Our white hat was never ivory pure, but we thought it looked good on us and it made us proud.

We are glad Saddam is gone and we thank Jimmy Carter for putting Human Rights front and center in our foreign policy.

As the execution neared, U.S. troops were on alert for an escalation of violence.

How do we determine an 'escalation of violence' in Iraq? Simple body count, or do we have more sophisticated measures?

55 Shiites were killed in a car bomb hours after Saddam's execution. That's roughly 15 more than the average daily count. Is that what troops are on alert for? If Iraq settles back to 40+ bodies by Monday, is the 'escalation' over?

I hope so. 55 a day is really too high.

Teresa, isn't there a Catholic feast day for practically every day on the calendar? I don't think Islam has any more holy days than other religions. This one is one of maybe six that are important, if you include the beginning and end of Ramadan as two. Christianity has Easter, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, Christmas, Epiphany, Pentecost, ...

Saddam was executed by his people? Considering he was originally a CIA plant in 1963, I believe that's right.

Down goes frazier,

Sock puppet much, you loser?

Steve Benen,

Look at the general tenor of this comments section and then tell me I was wrong to leave the Democrat Party. Isn't it apparent that a critical mass of these people - aka moonbats - have such a Freudian need to loathe America that they can never be trusted with power? There is no incident anywhere on this planet that cannot be laid at the feet of the white, male, heterosexual fascists that run the US government.

The thing that strikes me most about the execution is how the change of circumstances in Iraq has trivialized it.

Once upon a time, Saddam looked to be the very font of evil in Iraq. Now we see that there are fonts under every rock.

It's hard to perceive the execution as anything more than one more event in the cycle of violence and revenge in Iraq. Yes, Saddam deserved his fate. But how many of his enemies (and friends) who are now committing like and reciprocal atrocities aren't equally deserving? When and why might it ever end?

We imagined we were going into Iraq to rub out the source of evil in the country. In fact, we simply enabled all the long suppressed demons of that country to run riot through it.

So where's the satisfaction in Saddam's execution? It's a mark of how badly Bush has bungled things in Iraq that such a sought for event should prove so irrelevant and empty in the end.

blather,

The 63 event was the coup - However, the CIA recruited Saddam in 59 after he came from Tikrit - The US wanted Qasim eliminated as they felt he was a radical and was too close with the Communists - They were very afraid of what the Communists would do to the oil supply and supporting the Soviets. Saddam became "our man in Baghdad very early" - And we did support the Iraqis in their war against the Iranians. Not only through intelligence and helping to block the radar systems of the Iranians, but in turning our heads, winking and nodding while Saddam built up his cluster bombs and military capabilities. Our fingerprints were still on that body hanging there. Good riddance to Saddam, but the prints of many CIA operatives, Eisenhower officials, George Schultz, Don Rumsfeld, GHWB and St Ronny were on his cold body.

We are quite the global puppet master. And Gepetto still reigns at 1600.

"white, male heterosexual fascists"

Has that hetero been established and confirmed?

Look at the general tenor of this comments section and then tell me I was wrong to leave the Democrat Party.

What planet do you imagine you're living on?

1. The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein

2. Saddam Hussein should be arriving in hell any moment now, and good for him

3. A critical examination of events in Iraq suggests that Hussein's execution will not stop any of the violence, since for the past three years he has been in custody and has been removed from any possibility of directing the insurgency

4. Iraq is in civil war, and a Shia dominated government executed Hussein, a Sunni, on a Sunni holy day

5. America was never threatened by Hussein, therefore, America isn't safer now that he's dead

Enjoy and discuss, wingnuts, and tell us again why capturing him didn't stop the violence and tell us again that this has all been worth 3,000 dead and 20,000 wounded.

And, for the love of God, don't fucking say "I don't know."

minion of rove:There is no incident anywhere on this planet that cannot be laid at the feet of the white, male, heterosexual fascists that run the US government.

victim...again?

Down goes Frazier is the same loser who posts as Frequency Kenneth and Havlicek Stole the Ball.

He got deleted for sock-puppetry last night with two of those identities and he outed himself a few days ago on another thread with the other one.

Just so everyone knows he is a pathetic sock-puppet loser, and gives his posts the consideration they deserve.

Sort of an academic question but I was wondering, at this point, how many Iraqi's we'd have to shoot in the back of the head to exert the level of control that Saddam did. I guess he had a good half million + security force. Is that all it takes, or to you have to keep from making dipshit policy decisions too?

Oh well, I guess we'll just have to keep escalating until we find that right balance between security and civil liberties.

Good call Professor - Now, may I have my Chicken Noodle back?

I was also wondering what year the last dog sled will make it to the north pole. But that's a little OT.

No matter how and when Saddam was killed, there was bound to be some way to find fault. Was the trial too long? Too short? Should he have been summarily executed? Etc. Pipsqueak fakers like Juan Cole can always find some reason to squawk.

BTW I thought Saddam was executed before daybreak specifically to avoid being on a holy day. My impression was that Eid al-Adha began at daybreak. Is that correct?

"Is that correct"

Wiki must be down.

BTW I thought Saddam was executed before daybreak specifically to avoid being on a holy day. My impression was that Eid al-Adha began at daybreak. Is that correct?

Killing the leader of the country, who happens to be a Sunni, minutes before the start of the holy day that the Sunnis observe, while the Shia observe a different holy day that starts later, sounds like a smart thing to do, given that there's a civil war going on.

I thought your answer to everything was, "I don't know."

As in, "I don't know if the Iraq war was worth 3,000 dead and 20,000 wounded because I'm a mental midget with no common sense and a burning desire to pretend to care when, in fact, my sole purpose is to make sure George Bush is never held accountable for anything."

Is that correct?

I DON'T KNOW

Here's a report from prominent Iraqi blogger, "Iraq the Model."

Celebrating Justice...

Saddam drew his path to hell long time ago...
[snip]
Outside Iraq people will divide over his hanging, just like they divided over his life and rule but here in Iraq most of us feel that today justice has been served. Those who mourn him are a few and are still living in the past that has no future in Iraq.
[snip]
Executing the dictator renews the hopes of not only Iraqis but also of other oppressed peoples in the world in having a better future where they enjoy freedom. It's time for other tyrants to learn from this lesson and realize that a similar fate is on the way if they refuse to change.
[snip]
On this day as we celebrate justice we shall not forget to pray for blessings for the souls of the dictator's victims and we shall not forget to thank our brothers in America and the rest of the coalition nations who helped us and are still helping us in our struggle to build the new free and democratic Iraq.

I think he was killed a little less than an hour before the start of the holiday.

However, they apparently consulted religious authorities to see if they could kill him during the holiday . . . and officials on Saudi Arabian TV are now openly criticizing the decision as demeaning to a blessed occasion.

Steve Benen whines about the day selected to execute Saddam.

If the day of the Pentecost was chosen to hang a certain religious president for similar crimes (and victims) Saddam was hanged for, the politically religious evangelical fundamentalist Christians might react with somehting less than the charity Christ taught. They might feel the date was chosen to insult and intimidate them.

El-al-adha begins on approximately December 31st this year - All Islamic dates begin on the sunset of the evening before.

However, in the mostly secular Christmas Day in this land of heathens, it has not been determined whether the Day begins the moment Santa comes down the chimney, when the first present is opened, or the first "a-rump atum tum" is heard - When the ban on Christmas by Cromwell was lifted in 1660, the first mall in England was built and the first "a-rum atum tum" was played.

Was there knowledge before Wiki?

thethirdpaul: Message to the Saddams and Noriegas of this world from the US Governmant:

Red State Mike: Yes, the USofA is the global puppet master...NOT

Well let’s just note the facts. Of course, anything said like “the UsofA is the global puppet master� can be taken as an exaggeration, but it appears that some of our Presidents try to be.

It is a fact that the USA for years subsidized Noriega, via the CIA, to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars per year. Were I in Panama, I would like to have the equivalent of that amount of money today to see what I could accomplish. Bottom line is that we made Noriega, we created a little monster.

The Carter administration cut off the Noriega subsidy. Republican Presidents saw fit to reinstate it. When the fact came out, Bush One saw fit to lie about it. Then Bush One and several of his people lied again when they admitted it, but said Carter had done the same thing.

When the dust settled, it was clear that Carter and Admiral Stansfield Turner (his CIA chief) were telling the truth and the Bush people who were lying.

Did we get our money’s worth out of Noriega? Were we wise to help a bad guy who (we thought, I guess) would always be our bad guy? Some people think not. Some people note that Noriega became the only real trouble we’ve had with Panama.

So, what do you prefer? Liars who think they can manipulate the world in secret? If so, vote for the next GWB. I’m sure he/she can be trusted to identify the really bad people, and, on an ad hoc basis, discern the proper time to dispose of them.

I mean, it’s worked out sooo well for us in the past, right up through yesterday.

'Blather' does so: Saddam was executed by his people? Considering he was originally a CIA plant in 1963, ...

Read the man's obit at the Guardian. Saddam was a thug from a young age interested in one thing: absolute power. The CIA used him? More likely he used the CIA.

(Parenthetically: getting rid of Qasim in '63 (which the CIA didn't sponsor but took advantage of, and in which Saddam didn't participate but took advantage of) allowed us to get rid of the Iraqi Communists. It was the COLD WAR then. It was played for keeps. The Russians certainly played that way in Hungary, Cuba and other places.)

Saddam played with the CIA to help him move up to power. We had a different agenda back then and Saddam was just one more tool. Want to complain and bitch about it? Fine -- yesterday we closed the account. Good.

little ole jim complains, ... I'm sure he/she can be trusted to identify the really bad people, and, on an ad hoc basis, discern the proper time to dispose of them. That's a bipartisan failure, Jim: the Dhimmicrats over the years have fawned over Castro, Ortega, Allende, and (initially) even Khomenini. Worked out well, huh? If your complaint is neither Dems nor Reps provide us with national leaders who can manipulate the world stage properly, well, point taken.

It's still important to take the trash out. We and the Iraqis did that yesterday.

Mr. Setve White

Please enlighten as as to which Democratic President sent his special envoys to shake hands with Castro, Ortega, Allende or Khomeni while they were slaughtering thousands of their own people? And to talk about the Democratic support of the Iranian theocratic regime is really rich in light of Iran Contra.

Apologists for Republicans often warn a lot about the danger of engaaging in moral equivalence, but it is they who have perfected the art.

And Here's to that glorious day in 09, when Waste Management trucks roll up the drive at 1600 Penn. Whole lot of fumigation work to be done.

Yeah, Doc, the Sun-Times a little slow on the elections in Nicaragua? Jeb Bush took out an entire page to run an ad opposing Ortega. Hmmm, what's up with Ortega, Doc?

Saddam played with the CIA to help him move up to power.

He didn't just play with the CIA.

That's a bipartisan failure, Jim: the Dhimmicrats over the years have fawned over...

Yes, we can trust the bipartisan opinion of someone who calls Dems 'Dhimmicrats'.

(BTW, were these same Dems fawning over Castro the ones who took his nukes away, tried to blow him up with a loaded cigar, and maintained the embargo?)

It's still important to take the trash out.

Just as long as its not Republican Party approved trash like Karimov and the Sauds.

I don't want "fawning" Steve, whatever you mean by that. (By the way, what Democrats fawned over Castro? Kennedy?)

What I want is hard, cold cash, the kind Republican presidents put in pockets of Noreiga.

But, seriously, bipartisan failure? Remember the simple facts. Republican Presidents equaled cash to Noreiga. Democrat President equaled zero cash to Noreiga.

And when Reagan began supporting Saddam, Carter publicly spoke againt it, in spite of his bad experience with Iran. He was simply smart enough to know that Saddam would not be a good ally and that he was a bad guy in any case.

The cold war was never very "cold" for all the third world civilians the US and the USSR were responsible for killing.

Just thought I'd remind those amoral little asshats who think wars run like a game of Risk in their mother's basement.

"The timing also allowed Saddam, in his farewell address to Iraq, to pose as a 'sacrifice' for his nation, an explicit reference to Eid al-Adha. The tribunal had given the old secular nationalist the chance to use religious language to play on the sympathies of the whole Iraqi public."

So in the midst of a religious/sectarian war in the Middle East, we allow the dictator that we built up and then deposed to present himself to Muslim audiences as a holy sacrifice.

Yeah, that was a great idea. As pointed out above, our bestest Middle East friends ever, the Saudis, are now raking us over the coals for our bad taste.

How would the GOP kill a dictator like Saddam if it is a pregnant female?

As the world reflects on the death of Saddam the dicator, it also worth recalling the words of Bush on dictatorship:

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it."
- President George W. Bush, July 26, 2001.

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
- President-elect George W. Bush, December 18, 2000.

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier."
- Texas Governor George W. Bush, July 1998.

Mrs. T. and I watched CNN for a while last night. Although they kept a slideshow of pix from Saddam's career going in the background, showing him with various notables, they left out the picture of him shaking hands with Rumsfeld. Gee...

Teresa Kopec’s comment up thread is spot on.
Click Here

It seems that there is a holy day for every time the Prophet belched. Big fricken deal. Then again when one considers all the feast days for the saints that the Catholic Church used to fully celebrate….

Still, I am rather nonplussed at how insincere and duplicitous many Muslims seem to be about what offends them.

American soldiers enter a mosque and world wide protests spring up. Sunnis blow up a Shiite mosque and ,well, yawn. I find their values to be immature and not worthy for people who sniffle so much for western respect.

Too bad about Saddam -- it was dumb to kill him. If they had kept him in prison he would have died before long anyway. These days at every fork in the road the U.S. makes the wrong choice.

(Yeah, just stopped by to say hi -- I bet I haven't been here for a year or more.

Staying with friends in Orange County -- Dana Point. Yesterday we drove by one of the Radio Shacks you used to manage, and I told some people about your blog, called it up on their computer.

A year gone, and some new names in the comments, but mostly just the same old handles and ideas, the same lay-abouts that in Mark Twain's time would have been in the Whittlers and Spitters Club on the porch of any country store -- Pale Rider, Jerry, al and the gang.

Whittle, spit, comment. No jobs, no friends, nothing else to do.

The biggest challenge facing the old blogs and old bloggers is how to keep them relevent.

The sharpest commenters have mostly moved. Does anyone know where they went?

Going to be at El Indio in San Diego for lunch tomorrow. I'll keep an eye out for you.)

Far more important than the execution is the complete silence from every capitol in the Arab and Western world. Has the media noticed the total lack of enthusiasm for it other than on the streets of Michigan. The execution of this horrible murderer by a government the whole world sees as an American puppet has done this country no favor. Its only going to make the US more isolated and make the Arabs world more determined to get the US out of the region.

Karlsfini, you will find several of the old gang over at Ezra’s place.

Good to see you around again.

I haven't noticed anyone mention it, but I did go through the comments pretty fast. Eid-ul-Adha is a celebration based on Abraham's ritual sacrifice of a sheep in the place of his son.

All through Iraq, people are slaughtering sheep and giving the meat to family, friends, and the poor. Am I the only one seeing the irony here? The timing is a "fuck you" to Sunni's worldwide, but the subject of the holiday itself makes the hanging extremely sadistic.

Gothar -- Kevin is on vacation and Steve Benen is filling in for him. I suspect that many regulars are just readers now adays. As you have noticed, the comment threads sometimes leave something to be desired.

I wonder if the Little Idiot got the rush he expected from Saddam's execution. Was it less fun than he expected, given the "situation on the ground" in Iraq?

I'll also note this description in the NYT: "His own conviction that he was destined by God to rule Iraq forever was such that he refused to accept that he would be overthrown ..." Sound like anyone else we know?

Uh, AngryOne, those 3 Bush quotes were pulled out of context -- the context being how important it is to have a democracy.

By pulling them out of context, they appear to have the opposite meaning to what they actually meant.

For the Illuminati-conspiracy theorists among us;

Given the relationship between Freemasonry and the Shriners, does anyone know if the Shriners are generally more oriented towards Sunni or Shiite traditions?

Remember, we can help put you in power, we can sustain you in power, but, when it is to our political advantage, we can remove you from power. Wear you title and prestige well while you are in power, but you are merely our puppet. When we tire of you, we will have someone else in the wings.
Posted by: thethirdPaul on December 30, 2006 at 10:58 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, but the GENIUS of Saddam, was building a party-centered fascist power-structure, and eliminating any potential "replacements". The only people who had the skill and knowledge to competently run the Iraqi machines of government, were Baathists. So we had two choices going in to take him out. Either we find a Baathist to replace him with (and a certain critical number of former cronies), or we look for strong leaders among the folks who were anti-Baathists, and Saddam could not eliminate them all (like Sadr's father).

But at the end of the day, a minimal number of competent non-Baathists could not be found - and the end result was that the government has to be rebuilt from the ground-up, including training a new bureaucracy out of the slim-pickings of what Saddam left behind.

Saddam, and his Baathists literally took their ball and went home.

Saddam is dead, and nothing will change because of it. The idea of the nation of Iraq is a bad one: as I have mentioned previously. Saddam's methods held Iraq together, little else has worked; that goes to show Iraq is an ill conceived idea. U.S. troops will leave "Iraq" one day, and then the inhabitants can get on with making their own political settlement. Every dollar, and drop of blood expended since Saddam's government was toppled has been for nothing.

Tom Perry makes a valid point (one I've touched on before, the artificial construct that is/was Iraq). It was held together by a strongman, kinda like the former Yugoslavia. As soon as Tito was gone, the old hatreds erupted and the ethnic hostilities resurfaced. Remember that under the cover of WWII the Croats slaughterd Serbs with as much fervor as Hitler had for slaughtering Jews.

Only George W. Bush could make it possible for a murderous sociopath like Saddam Hussein to merit consideration in the Arab world as a martyr.

We framed a guilty man in a kangaroo court, and then literally gave him the "Bum's Rush" to the gallows, even as his other trial over charges og genocide against the Kurds had only just commenced.

I'm simply sickened by what we've done. Even Hermann Goering, Rudolf Hess and their Nazi cohorts were afforded due process and the right of appeal.

But just like Bush's prosecution of the Iraq War itself, the summary execution of Saddam was carried out in short-term response to American domestic political considerations.

ex-liberal: "Uh, AngryOne, those 3 Bush quotes were pulled out of context ..."

Listen to pofessional straw-man ex-liberal here, with the over-the-top whining about someone taking quotes out of context.

Of course, irony is a completely foreign concept to clue-free hypocrites like ex-liberal and egbert, who fail to realize that their performances on this blog are nothing more than high camp at best.

Red State Mike says:

"There are a million "truths of the matter" floating around. You would give yourself a wee bit of credibility if you said, "in my opinion..." "

Well it's glad to see I could bring up some points and defend them with logic only to have someone come and reciprocate in such a manner. It would do your credibility good to make a counter argument to my point than just make a meaningless statement with no merit whatsoever. I eagerly await your response Mr. "Red State Mike." Cheers

Every dollar, and drop of blood expended since Saddam's government was toppled has been for nothing.

The Kurds are real people and they count for something. There are almost 6M now living in Kurdistan is their 1st homeland ever.

The execution indeed appeared barbaric, as we enter 2007, which is as advanced as time has been--seems more like we should be George Jetson with the space age. Some of you might remember that cool view of the future we saw as young cartoon watchers. I kid you here, but seriously--

Seems we should be more advanced, more civil and refined.

But no, we are in a time where climate change is denied, scientific findings are altered, lies are the mainstay of the day, even leading to a tragic war, political grandstanding and photo opportunities are what constitutes any 'governing' nowadays.

The poor, the elderly and the disabled, left on the streets of one of the greatest American cities during a natural disaster. And we know our president also sought to eliminate health care for the poor in his 2006 budget.

These are barbaric times; that horrible hanging reflects the wretchedness of our time. Many of us are critical of Bush for his impeachable offenses, but certainly we would not want a foreign army invading America, capturing Bush in HIS cave, putting him on trial and executing him...having trained American judges on how to handle his trial.

I cannot understand how the barbaric hanging of Saddam has been such a great, great thrill for people, including several posting here.

How do you know that was really Saddam Hussein that was hanged, and not one of his many known “doubles�?

Interesting concept, TCD--I do recall seeing doubles over the years. You are a critical thinker and I always respect, look forward to, and admire your writings. Neat post.

Someone once said that conservatives are taking out their Vietnam frustrations in Iraq. I wonder.
They have so much hatred, they blame liberals for everything, and view everyone but themselves as wrong, wrong, wrong.

(Keith G: How did you put "�" in a comment? I don't know how to type it in even with alt + number, and had to copy it.) I think it was a mistake to hang Saddam on Eid as celebrated by Sunnis (Saturday), which makes it look like a slap in the face from Shias (who celebrate it on Sunday). Traditionally, no one should be exectuted on Eid, and that will cause resentment from people whose support, even luke-warm, we need. I am not a death-penalty opponent per se, I accept the Nuremberg principle etc., but that timing and avoidance of the second phase of the charges (the ones which would embarras the US due to complicity by Rummy et al in the chemical attacks) is another sign of dissembling here.

Neil B: Are you also Neal, and B, and NeilB. on this board?

Executions are supported by blood-thirsty savages, like Saddam Hussein. I thought we were better than that.

Besides, who's more influential today, the ghost of the martyred Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr, or pathetic old Manuel Noriega twiddling his thumbs in jail?

We should be better, if we are not. Good comment, otherpaul.

"The tribunal...had a unique sense of timing when choosing the day for Saddam's hanging. It was a slap in the face to Sunni Arabs. This weekend marks Eid al-Adha, the Holy Day of Sacrifice, on which Muslims commemorate the willingness of Abraham to sacrifice his son for God. Shiites celebrate it Sunday. Sunnis celebrate it Saturday -- and......" - Steve Benen

The Iraqi's should defer to the wisdom of the American left. Unable to distinguish any differences between Christians, the left has the remarkable ability to discern the most subtle nuances of the Muslim faith and to predict accordingly.

Considering this uncanny ability, and obvious compassion towards Islam, how is it that the radical Muslims don't worship at the liberal alter?

other paul:
"Executions are supported by blood-thirsty savages, like Saddam Hussein. I thought we were better than that."
What would have led you to think that?

consider wisely/always: Yes, I am also Neil B, but not just "B" and not "Neal". I write from different computers and don't trouble to get the name and email etc. just the same all the time. BTW I assume "consider wisely always" is the same person as "consider wisely" - right?

Of course, the really interesting question is: who is/are behind the endlessly fascinating and repulsive permutations of "Al"? "Al" has become larger than life - he/she/it/they is a mythical being now that goes beyond what we would expect a normal human being or group of human beings to put in for effort. Looking at an "Al" post now reminds me of the feeling I get looking at a pic of a gigantic crop circle formation - it looks man-made, but who would go to all that trouble, and for what? Is "Al" the voice of space aliens?

jay: Considering this uncanny ability, and obvious compassion towards Islam, how is it that the radical Muslims don't worship at the liberal alter?

because your straw man looks awful tattered...

Posted: "The tribunal...had a unique sense of timing when choosing the day for Saddam's hanging. It was a slap in the face to Sunni Arabs. This weekend marks Eid al-Adha, the Holy Day of Sacrifice, on which Muslims commemorate the willingness of Abraham to sacrifice his son for God. Shiites celebrate it Sunday. Sunnis celebrate it Saturday -- and......" - Steve Benen

The Iraqi's should defer to the wisdom of the American left. Unable to distinguish any differences between Christians, the left has the remarkable ability to discern the most subtle nuances of the Muslim faith and to predict accordingly.

Considering this uncanny ability, and obvious compassion towards Islam, how is it that the radical Muslims don't worship at the liberal alter?
Posted by: Jay on December 31, 2006 at 10:10 AM |

Well, Jay, you are getting some things mixed up (as you are now at the Rocks thread.) First, liberals are *quite* aware of the difference between nutty fundamentalist Christians and the reasonable, moderate main-liners that have often aided progressive causes, such as the civil rights movement, instead of obstructing it. Second, the distinction about Eid etc. is not made because we care about the theologica distinction, but because if it makes Muslims mad it will hurt US interests. Are you really that dopey, not to get such things?

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
—Albert Camus