Sorry, Steve--I think the U's history of arrests, in-game fights, and such--not to mention the whole Steve Spurrier thing--works against Florida here. And Texas was pretty potent in the old days, too--Darrell Royal's Longhorns, Earl Campbell, the Doomsday Defense, and so on. Besides, it's only been in the last decade that the Bucs and Jaguars have been respectable.

Then again, what do I know? I'm from North Carolina, where football is something to keep us occupied during the first days of basketball practice...

Umm, is this the game where they kick the ball or hit it with a stick?

The best football is played in the state of Florida. EIGHT national titles in the past 25 years. Texas has one. California has two.

Texas may have been the best producer of high school football talent 25 or 30 years ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for some time.

Ah, Kevin.

After getting slapped around badly the last few days for your political posts, you run away with your tail between your legs and try to post something innocuous about football.

But even here, you fail, because you try to sneak a blue state into the list. Sorry, California doesn't belong.

Weak. This ESPN story was inherently flawed since it bungled in the soap opera/dancing competition that is the NFL as if it were actually football.

to incorporate nfl teams is absurd. many of the players don't come from the home state. the judgements should be made on highschool and college alone.

Ah, egbert.

Please go start your own blog, so we can ignore you there.

Within the last 25 years there's no doubt about it that Florida beats out California and Texas. Before that, I'd go with texas as UT was pretty dominant, but then the college football world was a lot smaller then. the modern era has been all about speed, and nowhere has speed as a football commodity been more cultivated than in Florida. It defines Florida football.

There should be an enrollment footnote next to Florida's high school stats, explaining which part of the school year those stats represent: pre-November or post-November. The enrollment drop off is shocking.

Let's look at the real issue -- where do the most important players and coaches come from, both past and present? Joe Namath, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Mike Ditka, Bill Cowher, Tom Brady -- what do they and others too numerous to list have in common? They're from PENNSYLVANIA. More to the point, they're from PITTSBURGH.

Defense rests.

Kinda strange listening to CBC Radio Two with Paul Brandt and a Symphony Orchestra from Calgary singing "Convoy"

But, 30 years ago, the two hottest recruiting areas were Texas and Pennsylvania with California a very close 3rd - However, Florida has roared past all of them.

But, some, if not many, of those Hall of Famers came out of the small African-American college system, Southern, Grambling, Florida A&M, etc.

PCash - Well, you might at least thank the Jayhawk state for sending you the KU grad, Dean Smith, and sending back that used car salesman, Roy (Come on down, have I a deal for ya'll) W.

I'm pretty sure football was not popular until the Nebraska Cornhuskers showed everyone else how the game was supposed to be played.

geml,

And Marty of the now, Smarty Ball, is choppable liverwurst?

With apologies to Pale Rider, who calls Smarty Ball, Marty Ball on Steroids.

Hate to over post, but, Brojo, you must be a youngin'.

There was a time when Bud Wilkerson and the Oklahoma Sooners dominated the old Big Eight - It was called by wags as Oklahoma and the Seven Dwarfs. Tom Osborne was still a lad at the time.

Ithought they played the World Series last month. Let's get back to the real game.

Sorry guys but y'all have no standing and are making no sense in this debate.

The best football state is Ohio. I could describe the early years, games played in the 1800s, past luminaries and legends, the cradle of coaches, the hall of fame. But let me squelch all pretenders by simply sharing this.

To me football in Ohio means Friday nights in autumn. A chill in the air of the cloudless night brings out the mittens and scarves. High rise wooden bleachers, that can seat a combined 3000 folks, are enveloped in the fragrances of popcorn, hot dogs and cocoa (never nachos). An old farm house that can barely be seen across the corn-stubble field at the south end zone contributes the light smoke of the oak and hickory burning in its fireplace adding to the potpourri to the harvest air.

The bands strike up, young men who are known to all in the communities by name, family, and behavior take the field. As a light frost begins to settle on nearly invisible corn shocks. A coin in tossed and a game begins.

There is just one fact I think needs to be stated: The SEC, and in particular, the Florida Gators, is and are the most over rated conference of teams in the nation. Just one man's opinion but I really know what I'm talking about.

As MSNBC's David Shuster found out the hard way, Ohio beats Michigan.

>>Texas may have been the best producer of high school football talent 25 or 30 years ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for some time.
Posted by: Double B

Gee, and where's USC's QB from ...Texas. And three or four other QB's at big name schools as well.

Texas.

There are teams in Co, KS, OK and elsewhere with nearly half the starters from Texas. Everybody and I mean everybody (well, maybe not Hawaii.) recruits in Texas, babe.

Oh, and a shout out to Acadiana High (Carencro). LA High School Champs. Beat the socks off the Sulphur Golden Tornados.

Keith G,

We, the citizenry of Massilon, Ohio salute you. Is there a better community for football anywhere?

And the Big Eight would have never formed with the Southwest Conference to create the Big 12, without the success Texans played in those BE teams. The Southwest Conference wanted to stop the flow north.

Keith G, that was beautiful. It brings back memories of high-school in Iowa (after my dad retired) spending all those Friday nights with my back to the game, guaging what was happening on the field from the faces of the audience, while never losing cadence. (Yes, that post was so moving I will admit to a misspent youth as a cheerleader. Show me a really sharp pom-pom waterfall and to this very day, I get misty.)

Paul can attest to the fact that a little town of 4000 in the Willamette Valley (Junction City, OR) produces state championship teams at a phenomenol rate.

GC, say it ain't so!

Only person in the history of the school to simultaneously be head football cheerleader and president of the science club.

Not to mention what was going on under the stands.

I have previously alluded to an incident in which the entire second half my skirt was on backwards.

Is there a better community for football anywhere?

In my experience Tallahassee is the most gaga football town anywhere. Narrowly nudging out Baton Rouge.

Whole streets planted with garnet and gold mums spelling out 'Go, Noles' and other phrases. It's pretty amazing.

>>I have previously alluded to an incident in which the entire second half my skirt was on backwards.
Posted by: Global Citizen

Oh my ears and whiskers! I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you.

I have not been as pure as the driven snow for quite some time.

Have you looked at what's in snow lately? We're gonna have to come up with a new standard of purity.

Oh, yeah, the QB of Iowa? Drew Tate.

He and Colt McCoy played each other at the high school level. In Texas, of course.

Hmmm - 99 and 44/100s pure - Brooke Shields and then there was that other "lady". Or was she before Brooke?

And now back to smash mouth football.

"Sharks are as tough as those football fans who take their shirts off during games in Chicago in January, only more intelligent." --Dave Barry

Or more likely, time to go watch some.

Not sure what NFL teams are being shown here. Looks, according to the local TV channels listing, to be solid TBA v TBA right across the board.

Later, ya'll, I've got some fresh mustard greens to deal with.

MsNThrope wrote:

Gee, and where's USC's QB from ...Texas. And three or four other QB's at big name schools as well.

Texas.

No, he's not. Booty is from Shreveport, LA and played at Evangel Christian HS.

MsNThorpe,

I never stated that Texas didn't produce football talent. They clearly do. Florida just produces more. Stating that there are some quality QBs from Texas who don't play in Texas doesn't mean jack squat. There are Florida high school players that don't play their college ball in the state of Florida as well.

It's too bad we aren't as interested in ranking the states in terms of academic achievements. I suspect Texas and Florida would be near the bottom. Iowa and Minnesota near the top.

Texas gets credit for AFL titles?

Houston Oilers, AFL champions, 1961/1962.

Let's debate % of genius IQ's per state. CAL might still be in the running. TX & FLA wouldnt even be in the top 40. Just sayin.

Well, last year for one.

Of course, you should probably add stolen elections into the mix. I noticed that this list of states also includes those with the highest percentage of wingnut skullduggery. Maybe it's because this is where they have football coaches teaching civics classes?

Actually Texas had three AFL championships: Oilers in 1960 and 1961; Dallas Texans in 1962.

Wikipedia had the dates wrong for the Oilers' championships. No surprise there.

Michael

Texas would be in the top 40. Numerous Noble laureates (as opposed to none in Florida), lots of members of the National Academy, etc. work at Texas universities, and there is a pretty reasonable high tech corridor in Houston, Austin, and Dallas. The state is second only to California in the number of patents produced. This is IN SPITE of the politics, not because of it, and the state has more than its share of wingnut morons too.

Of course, the high flying academic folks in Texas universally come from somewhere else -- still, fairness required mentioning it.

I think high school football should be banned.

I note with mild disappointment that while the District of Columbia is included, they have left off those football powerhouses Guam, American Samoa, and the United States Virgin Islands.

And the Dallas Texans became the Kansas City Chiefs, er I think they're still considered "Chiefs" in some quarters.

And that great Texas coach, Darrel Royal, up thread was Bud's QB at Oklahoma.

And Bud Adams, the owner of those Houston Oilers, graduated from the University of Kansas.

But, some, if not many, of those Hall of Famers came out of the small African-American college system, Southern, Grambling, Florida A&M, etc

Yep. And the following, from my home state, which could go on and on:

Jerry Rice, Mississippi Valley State
Walter Peyton, Jackson State University
Steve McNair, Alcorn State University
Bret Favre, University of Southern Mississippi (ok, I cheated here)

Washington Monthly is better than this.

To be fair they need to come up with a numeric for football success, divide by the number of 6'5" 300lb men between age 16 and 32, multiply by the percentage of unionized workers in the state, and then add a point for each star player that comes from a disadvantaged home.

Kentucky won a bowl game- an unmistakable sign of the End Times.

Prepare.

Kentucky won a bowl game- an unmistakable sign of the End Times.

Kentucky, hell Rutgers! There are two of the horsemen, right there.

Global:

The karmic jockstrap has snapped...

"And Kentucky won a bowl game"

Perhaps borrowing some bute and lasix from the horse stables?

and raised a welt.

Too funny. Had to wipe a tear of laughter from my eye, olds88.

On a per capita basis, American Samoa is by far the leading producer of NFL players. "A Samoan boy, according to estimates, is 40 times more likely to make it to the NFL than a boy from the mainland," writes Greg Garber.

As Tom Wolfe observed in "Mau-Mauing the Flak-Catchers" in 1969, before Samoans had made a dent in football:

"Have you ever by any chance seen professional football players in person, like on the street? The thing you notice is not just that they're big but that they are so big, it's weird… From the ears down, the big yoyos are just one solid welded hulk, the size of an oil burner… Well, that will give you some idea of the Samoans, because they're bigger. The average Samoan makes Bubba Smith of the Colts look like a shrimp. They start out at about 300 pounds and from there they just get wider."

Steve Sailer,

As when the U of U (Utah, that is) became better - The Ducks in Eugene as well.

But, big is not always better - Think Junior Sciavii - better in off field fights than on field play.

But, then there were the days at Wazzoo of the Throwin' Samoan.

Meanwhile, this season Hawaii QB Colt Brennan only threw for NCAA-record 58 touchdowns and 5,549 yards, and finished with an NCAA-record 72.1 completion rate (373-517-11) and an NCAA-record 185.96 QB rating.

To put this in even greater perspective, Brennan shattered the old TD pass record held by Houston's 1990 Heisman Trophy winner David Klingler, despite having 150 less attempted passes than Klingler, and having sat out the parts of the third quarter and entire fourth quarter in eight games.

Further, his statistics were greater than those of Ohio State QB Troy Smith and Notre Dame QB Brady Quinn combined!

As he proved conclusively in Hawaii's 41-24 victory over Arizona State on national television (33-42-1, 5 TDs, 559 yds.), Colt Brennan is the real deal.

I certainly don't begrudge Troy Smith his accolades or his Heisman Trophy -- garnered as they were in leading his undefeated Ohio State team to a Big Ten title and a No. 1 ranking -- but Heisman voters made a mockery of this year's race by not even inviting Colt Brennan to attend this year's ceremony in New York.

And that great Texas coach, Darrel Royal, up thread was Bud's QB at Oklahoma.

And Bud Adams, the owner of those Houston Oilers, graduated from the University of Kansas.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on December 31, 2006 at 2:02 PM

That's migration for you. Another example, this time in basketball: the man generally considered to be the catalyst behind hoops mania in North Carolina is Everett Case, whose North Carolina State teams won nine tournament titles in 10 years in the Southern and the newly-formed ACC conferences from 1947 to 1956. However, he wasn't a native -- he had coached high school ball in Indiana before N.C. State hired him in '46, and many of his Wolfpack players (including later NCSU coach Norm Sloan) had Hoosier State roots. In response to State's dominance, archrival North Carolina hired Frank McGuire from St. John's, and he began a pipeline from NYC to Chapel Hill that resulted in a national title and unbeaten team in 1957. (Oh, and Duke? At that time, it was still deemed a football school.)

One thing that helps Florida's dominance is spring practice, something I think is ridiculous at the high school level. But several southern states do it; I'd prefer the kids be allowed to play baseball or run track.

Curious. As a long-time hater of Notre Dame (grew up in L.A. and even worked at Purdue at one time), it seems to me that South Bend is ahead of every one of those states. Notre Dame has 11 consensus national championships and more Heisman winners than the other states. Or looking at it another way, if you were to draw a circle with South Bend at the center and including Chicago, Ann Arbor, and Columbus, it wouldn't be that large a region, but it would include a substantial fraction of the national championships, Heismans and All-American players.

And if you think it's rough playing those Pacific islanders in football, try rugby.

Donald,

Brennan is legit. I actually got to see that game (we don't get a lot of Hawaii out here in the Midwest). Has a fantastic release and throws the ball "on time" better than any QB in the nation. He definitely should have been at the ceremony. Unfortunately, nobody watches Hawaii because by the time a night game starts out there, it's midnight in the East.

geml,

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Pittsburgh is where the grow quarterbacks (and great quarterbacks develop because they had great coaches).

To your list you can add four Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Johnny Lujack, George Blanda, Johnny Unitas and Jim Kelly.

The list struck me as inherently flawed, since everyone knows my birth-state of Florida is obviously the nation's most impressive state for football.

Steve--I'm a university professor in Texas, and well ... I actually agree with you. I know that there are lots of football fans here, but I just don't know that many. In fact I usually watch football by myself. By contrast, when I lived in Georgia and knew many people who lived in Florida at one time or another, everyone was an enormous college football fans. The SEC and ACC are a way of life in that part of the country.

The SEC and ACC are a way of life in that part of the country.

Well, the ACC *is* a way of life in the southeast, yes, but not till basketball season.

Somehow the Miami-Duke football rivalry hasn't exactly filled the area with a sense of tradition.

But even a Clemson-Wake Forest game gets people heated when it's on the hardwood.

Interesting that the five best football states are five of the six largest states. Per capita, Wisconsin kicks all your asses. I mean, they call it the Lombardi trophy for a reason. Also, Badger and Packer fans practically invented tailgating.

PCash - 1983, the final game of the NCAA championship. My husband had just gone back to work after some leave when our first child was born, and was on standby. A missile went red, and he had to go to work an gour before tip-off, in a missile silo 150 feet below the Sonora Desert. I was calling with updates as often as I could, and the launch crew would patch me through. I called at the top of the 4th quarter and the launch commander said "We know you are calling with basketball updates, and our TV is dead. Can we just put you on speaker phone for the entire complex?"

Badger and Packer fans practically invented tailgating.

Glad you said practically Greg - Arrowhead (KC) has a long and hearty tailgating tradition. We'll split that honor, whadya say?

GCit--ha! I believe every word.

How on earth do they get NINE NFL championships for Ohio? Neither the Bengals nor the Browns has ever won a Super Bowl. Bloody Ohio has won the same number of Super Bowls as Liechtenstein.

I know Cleveland won a few NFL titles in the 1950s and early 1960s, but there's no way they won nine of them. What, are we counting titles won by the Canton Bulldogs back in Nineteen Ought Five?

I guess I need to head over to google and figure out how they calculated this nonsense.

From 1920-1931 the NFL championship was determined by a team's won-loss percentage.

1920 - Akron Pros
1921 - Chicago Staleys
1922 - Canton Bulldogs
1923 - Canton Bulldogs
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs

WEAK!

And I bet everyone in Ohio still gets misty-eyed when they remember that 1945 title by the Cleveland Rams.

For sakes, thethirdPaul, the man's name is Wilkinson, Bud Wilkinson. 47 in a row.

South Panola High School in Ms. has 60 wins in a row. Gotta be way up in national rank.

Steve, a late note of clarity: Penn. has 5 Super Bowl titles, you are correct; however, you should note that all 5 are west of the Alleghenies.

Read the individual writeups by state and you will wonder how Texas came out #1. For example, the headline cites six college national championships, but the state write-up lists only four, all by Texas. Then, the headline for California cites eight national championships, but the state write-up—in referring to USC alone—mentions the winning or sharing of 11 national championships. If USC indeed won 11, which might be the only ones that California got (although if memory serves, UCLA might have gotten one in the mid-50s), that alone would have to propel California into the #1 ranking.

WRT the pros, one wonders how Texas, with five super bowl wins, somehow beats California with eight. Yes, more NFL hall of famers (a very dubious stat anyway), but still.....

Somebody upthread mentioned media bias, esp concerning the SEC. Amen. One need only recall 1978, when USC and Alabama split the national title, after each won bowl games and finished with identical records. One loss apiece. Only problem with this was that Alabama's loss was to USC. In Alabama. So why a split championship? Only Bryant's ghost and southern writers know for sure.

When I was a kid growing up in Flint, Michigan, the State H.S. football title was usually decided by the winner of the Flint Central and Flint Northern annual Thanksgiving Day game, played before crowds of 20,000 plus. And yet we somehow knew that the really big high school game was in Northern Ohio, usually between Massilon and McKinley. We also darkly believed that Pennsylvania had a monster high school league that was so good they maybe should have turned pro. We thought all this was because, among a few other things, the three leagues had ... black players! We were smarter than we knew.

Try this: For any given year in the past fifty, count the Ohio players on the University of Michigan team, the Pennsylvania players on Ohio State's, and then ask yourself if it isn't possible that if those kids had stayed home Ohio State and Penn State would have dominated the No.1 spot for decades?

Texas? When I was a kid we thought they played "sissy football" — they passed a lot and razzle-dazzled because they were afraid of being hit.

Thirty years ago when I found myself at a party talking to the Santa Monica, California High School football coach, I commented that he must get a lot of try-outs at a school that large. "Hell," he said, "I can't get them out of the surf long enough to come to practice."

Bowl games aren't important to players and coaches, unless a national championship or someone's job is involved; getting there is what's important.

Don't worry Kevin, USC's got it in the bag, 31-20. What's Michigan's motivation? Why if you try real hard, fellas, you can be ... No. 2.

Why is anyone suprised Kentucky won a bowl? There are so freaking many bowls now, my grandmother has a good chance of winning one. Proof that corporate American can ruin absolutely anything if there is a single dime in it ...

So tell me. Which Florida team is in the NFL Playoffs this year?

[crickets]

Wha? Can't hear you!

[more crickets]

That answer is exactly right.

Gee, ESPN really screwed up. They left the most important statistic of all out of their rankings.

Texas by far has the most talented cheerleaders of any state in the union. And the female cheerleaders are by far the prettiest.

This solidifies Texas' number one ranking.

What? You doubt?

I'll eat my pom-poms if I'm wrong.

I can only offer in my own defense the proposition that Shreveport doesn't really consider itself part of Louisiana.

I lived there for 9 years and I know that Shreveport looks to Dallas, supports the Cowboys, and on any given weekend the casino parking lots and LADowns' parking lot are filled with Texas license plates. There's more Tex-Mex and BBQ than gumbo.

OH, I know they've put added touristy stuff like Mudbug Madness and even Mardi Gras parades (I was at the 1st one), but at heart Shreveport's an outpost of Dallas.

Yo, Boomer,

Thanks for the correction - Can't even blame the r and n being side by side.

But, that does not erase from my memory seeing Clendon Thomas and Tommy McDonald running all over my hapless Jayhawks - 35 to zip at the half - 64 to nada for the final.

But, I also was able to see that fantastic 97 yard kick off return by Gale Sayers against the Sooners. It was the run where Sayers made his patented flip-flop cutbacks - Papa Bear Halas saw the tapes and outbid the Chiefs to take Gale to Chicago.

Yeah, 47 in a row - But, did not Notre Dame end that streak?

As a long-time hater of Notre Dame (grew up in L.A. and even worked at Purdue at one time), it seems to me that South Bend is ahead of every one of those states. Notre Dame has 11 consensus national championships and more Heisman winners than the other states.

Speaking as a long-time South Bend native and Notre Dame faculty brat, I think the reason we got left off the list was that Indiana doesn't have much of a high school football tradition (by that, I mean our high school football players have to pretend a lot harder to be students than they do in Florida, Texas et al), and the Indianapolis Colts don't do a lot for our professional rankings. Even without whatever help Notre Dame can get from IU and Purdue, they could pull Indiana across the line on a college-only list if it weren't for knee-jerk Notre Dame bashing, but we don't deserve to win an all-levels list.

Or looking at it another way, if you were to draw a circle with South Bend at the center and including Chicago, Ann Arbor, and Columbus, it wouldn't be that large a region, but it would include a substantial fraction of the national championships, Heismans and All-American players.

Now, that may be true. The buckle of the rust belt should dominate any college-level discussion, and do well at the pro level as well. Especially if Green Bay falls within the zone.

That said:

1. Whoever pointed out that the list should really adjust for population is right on.
2. Whoever accused the listmakers of including California only to keep the blue states from being shut out is an idiot. Pennsylvania, #4 on the list, has voted Democratic for the past four Presidential elections, so blue state pride was never imperiled.

Oracle, Tuesday Morning Quarterback, the profoundly wise football website with an even more profoundly attentive coverage of cheerleaders, has scientifically rated the Philadelphia Eagles' cheerleaders as the best in the nation, world, solar system or galaxy. With the Chargers' cheerleaders in second.

I'm not 100% convinced, but so far I'm inclined to agree, and this is from someone who doesn't really give two shakes whether the Eagles and/or Chargers win, lose, or appear on a reality TV show where they take turns trying to convince celebrity judge Nancy Sinatra to let them manage a tiki bar somewhere in the Hindu Kush. (No, wait. That last actually sounds pretty cool. But I'm still indifferent to the Eagles and Chargers as football teams.)

Okay, I went over to the list, and, on the college level, Indiana was robbed!

They've got Indiana at #17 for college ball. But we have more national titles than anybody, and we're tied for second behind California in the Heisman sweepstakes with Ohio. We have more national titles, more Heisman winners AND more D1 teams than Pennsylvania (#7), Oklahoma (#8), Nebraska (#9), Georgia (#11) and Wisconsin (#13). Hell, Virginia has half as many D1 teams as Indiana, has never won a Heisman, has never won a national title, and came in ahead of us at #14? What, does ESPN think Notre Dame's insistence that its scholar-athletes can be called scholars with a straight face somehow means that football isn't a big deal here?

I said it before I even saw the list -- more knee-jerk Notre Dame bashing.

Move Notre Dame's campus 10 miles to the north, and the state of Michigan is an overwhelming #1.

I was wrong, Kevin, it wasn't USC 31-20, it was 32-18 over my consistently over-rated Alma Mater.. But it was still in the bag.

"Somebody upthread mentioned media bias, esp concerning the SEC. Amen. One need only recall 1978, when USC and Alabama split the national title, after each won bowl games and finished with identical records. One loss apiece. Only problem with this was that Alabama's loss was to USC. In Alabama. So why a split championship? Only Bryant's ghost and southern writers know for sure."

Actually, I can explain it for you with no problem. Yes, USC beat Alabama mid-season in Birmingham, 24-14, but as it turns out that was not the only game that either of those two teams played that year. Alabama played a much tougher schedule and was much more impressive against it. At the end of the regular season Alabama was ranked #2 in both polls, well ahead of USC. Alabama then played the only undefeated team in the nation, #1 Penn St., in the Sugar Bowl, and beat them 14-7. Meanwhile, USC played once-beaten Michigan in the Rose Bowl and although they won by the same margin as Bama beat Penn St. by, it was a much shakier win, with the winning margin coming on a touchdown that was clearly a blown call, when Charles White fumbled the ball away to Michigan well before he crossed the goal line.

So what actually happened was that Alabama won a classic bowl matchup between #1 and #2 teams and then the #3 team passed them in one of the polls! By the way, USC won the UPI poll by a sliver, with an equal number of first place votes with Alabama, while Alabama won the AP poll by a convincing margin.

As a 40+-year fan of Alabama and SEC football, let me say that I am quite amused by hearing a discussion of historical media bias AGAINST the SEC. Au contraire, mon frere. The SEC has been the top football conference in the nation ever since I was born--not every year, to be sure, but enough years that the overall lead has never really been in doubt--and has only started getting some credit for that over the last 10-15 years. Even now, it's Michigan and Ohio St. that always start in the Top 5 almost every year, whatever they did the year before, and it's Notre Dame that gets the unearned fawning of the media and the gift BCS invites.

Nice try, Trickster. But it is what it is. Schedule, whatever, doesn't matter. The dog won by ten on the road. You wax eloquently about that #1 and #2 matchup, but all things being equal—which they were—Alabama shouldn't have been ranked above the team that beat 'em convincingly. You can run, but you can't hide from reality.

Incidentally, anyone happen to see the Rose Bowl today? Good thing Western teams are such wusses. Otherwise, Michigan—the team that grumbled about not going to the BCS Championship game—might have been embarrassed. Oh, and more Western wusses. I am watching the Fiesta Bowl as I post and I note how Oklahoma—one of the old line "powers"—is blowing those guys from Idaho out. Yeah, Boise State didn't belong on the same field.

Nah, there's no bias against Western teams.

You sound awfully certain about that, nixon did it, but most observers from the time did not agree with your assessment. From my perspective your opinion might be more credible if you hadn't totally neglected to mention one of college football's most famous and classic games when rendering it.

I was there in Birmingham that day when Southern Cal beat Bama 24-14. They whipped us soundly. However, that game did not come particularly close to making up for the disparities between the rest of the two teams' schedules. USC had nothing on its resume to match Alabama's impressive 20-3 thumping of powerhouse Nebraska, and while Bama was running undefeated through its SEC schedule USC was schooled 20-7 after the Alabama game by a mediocre Arizona State team in a game that was not as close as the score sounded.

In short, your argument attempts to reduce the entire season to a single game. But college football ratings are not and never were based on a single game: they were and are based on a judgment concerning the team's entire season. USC was better than Alabama the week they played, but not the rest of the season.

As fate would have it, I moved from Tuscaloosa to Los Angeles in October of that year. I worked as a clerk/typist at the U.S. Geological Survey, where several of the geologists were USC grads--but even the USC grads were not unanimous about who deserved to be #1.

Trickster, you're missing the point, which was media bias. I just used that '78 season to make a point, a point that you further emphasized for me with the reference to SC losing to Arizona State in '78. The fact is, as demonstrated this year by SC's two losses—both in conference—nothing can be taken for granted in the Pac 10. And it occurs to me that those two losses in the Pac 10 didn't seem to have much bearing in USC's treatment of Michigan—the team that thought they should be playing for the national championship—or did you watch a different game than I did?

You cite Alabama's beating of "powerhouse Nebraska" in '78. Well, it occurs to me that good old powerhouse Nebraska routinely lost bowl games when they were heavily favored. I still recall a "team of the century" Nebraska team getting their heads handed to them by Miami in an Orange Bowl.

The Big 8 was traditionally Oklahoma, Nebraska and the Little Sisters of the Poor. The Big 10 the same, with Ohio State and Michigan. And your SEC? Check the Division 2 schools they play and the scores they run up. Bottom line here is that, based primarily on years of Pac 10-Big 10 Rose Bowl matchups where Big 10 teams were routinely favored, the "powerhouse" Big 10 didn't exactly dominate the Pac 10. We can't do the same head-to-head matchups with the Big 8 (or whatever they are now) or the SEC, due to the lack of a conference tie-in in bowls, so I'll just stick with the Big 10 there. Oh, and then there is this. Arkansas barely lost the SEC championship game this year and was in a BCS bowl. I harken back to September. USC 50, Arkansas 14.

We both know these things can never be settled short of a true national championship playoff. Until then, I suppose we'll just have to waste our time and lose sleep debating the issue. Frankly, it's not all that important to me and the only reason I'm still awake is that I decided to check the Fiesta Bowl out.

Oh, and you did see the result of the Fiesta Bowl, didn't you? Boy, that WAC team sure took the pipe against "powerhouse" Oklahoma, didn't it?

Trickster,

Probably a dead thread - Can't recall the year, but didn't Bear Bryant say that Sam "Bam" Cunningham of USC did more to integrate, not only Alabama football, but the SEC as well, than anyone? John McKay brought a power team with Sam into Birmingham and beat a very good Alabama team. After the game, Bryant said that they would have to drop their opposition to integration.

However, later I was fortunate to see Alabama come into the Coliseum with Ollie Newsome, the great tight end, now GM? with the Ravens.

Kind of fitting - As President Ford's body wends it's way back to Michigan for burial, the Wolverines were "buried" yesterday in Pasadena.

thethirdPaul, that is certainly the story, although I don't think it has ever been publicly confirmed.

I was there at that game at well, in 1970, when Cunningham and USC bashed Bama 42-21. Whether that is what led to it or not I can't confirm, but it is certainly true that Bama's first black player, defensive end John Mitchell, who went on to become an All-American, took the field the season after that. Mitchell joined the Bear's staff as a defensive line coach after his graduation and for the last 13 years has coached the defensive line for the Steelers.

As good a story as the Cunningham-Mitchell connection makes, it's just as viable a theory to say that it was simply time for Bama to integrate its team, Sam the Bam or not. Wendell Hudson, the fourth black basketball player in the SEC, was already on Alabama's team in 1969, the year before the infamous trouncing by USC and Cunningham. And it's just as likely that the most tangible result of that game was Alabama's conversion during the following off-season, in secret, to the wishbone offense, which they unveiled in Los Angeles during the first week of September of 1971. Alabama upset USC to open the '71 season and went on to win 8 SEC championships in the '70s.

In six days, the Sewanee football team defeated Texas, Texas A&M, Tulane, LSU and Ole Miss. On the seventh day, they rested.

Case closed.