why is joe running? what makes him think he's a compelling candidate, other than his own ego? i don't have anything against the guy. i just don't believe he has a ghost of a chance of coming close to coming close to having a shot at the nomination.

Paging Neil Kinnock's speech writer. Would Neil Kinnock's speech writer please pick up the white courtesy phone?

I think Biden gives the American Voter WAY too much credit (on his take on Obama).

Personally, I think Obama would be a fine President. I don't agree with a lot of his stances, but I'd much rather see him in there than Clinton, and probably Edwards, as well.

Is Obama a little light on experience? A little dark-horsey? Sure. But honestly, I think American Voters know more about him than they did about Bush in 1999.

If Bush could get "elected" - Obama sure as hell can. Additionally - there's a lot of anti-Republican disgust out there, and it's only getting worse, and I don't think it's going to decline any time soon. So Obama only has to defeat his fellow Democrats.

(I'd rather see Feingold make it. Or, actually, I'd rather see Pelosi in there by June.)

I'd excuse my 90-year-old grandmother for such a comment, because she's of an era where African-Americans were referred to as "colored people". Why get into it?

But for someone who built his entire political persona around the idea that he's bright, knowledgable and articulate, Sen. Joe Biden has proven to be astonishingly obtuse with regards to racial stereotypes. After all, this is the same guy who only recently had to explain what he meant when he said, "You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent."

This latest snafu is not an isolated incident, and Biden gets no ""Get Out of Jail Free" card from me on this. If anything, I'm even more disgusted by the fact that he's a Democrat, because I expect this kind of stuff from Trent Lott or Jesse Helms, not a prominent mmber of my own party.

Wow - I just read that people are jumping down Biden's throat on these comments.

I didn't see them as racist at all.

If you look at the past black Presidential candidates - Obama DOES possess certain qualities that none of the others have.

I do think Biden is wrong though. I think that Americans will find Obama quite acceptable as a candidate.

I'm glad he is on our team.
He's a good guy and a decent spokesmen when he gets on the pundit shows.
But jeese, who the heck is he trying to impress with this kind of trash talk? I mean it's as if he's auditioning for the republican VP slot. Ouf. Guess he didn't get the memo about attack politics not working so well in primary.

Isn't there someone to sit down Biden and Dodd and explain to them that they aren't going to win the nomination. That they don't have a chance. That no one is excited about their candidacy? And in the case of Biden, that he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut already? Shouldn't someone have that job? Or, had they been spending all their time with John Kerry and only recently began to start to interventions for Biden and Dodd? Because, seriously guys, you are NOT getting the nomination. Stop spending other people's money already.

Interesting that Joe Biden would use the publicity surge he gets from announcing his candidacy to trash fellow Democrats.

"what makes him think he's a compelling candidate"

Pretty much foreign policy, I believe. He thinks he's got the chops to be a "serious" foreign policy guy, while the others are lightweights. Personally, I just don't see it. He just doesn't have a base, and his track record on Iraq, the primary foreign policy question of the moment, is decidedly mixed.

Extradite,

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," he said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

You can't see the smallest bit of racism in that statement? He's pretty much saying Obama is the only African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking.

So, for example, what does Joe Biden have against Tiger Woods? Is Tiger tongue-tied or stupid or dirty or ugly or all four?

Some of these guys know they have zero chance of becoming president, and they throw their hats in the ring for other reasons. Others suffer from severe bubble disease, and actually believe they're elder statesmen with presidential entitlement even though their track records are abysmal. Hard to know which one Biden is.

Biden: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," he said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Who were the mainstream African American candidates who weren't those things?

In any event, it would be hoot to have a sitting president who calls the Imus Show regularly.

Okay - I'll take another stab at this, because I was unnecessarily vague.

Past Black Presidential Candidates (that I'm aware of).

Jesse Jackson.
Al Sharpton.
Carol Mosely Braun.

Jackson and Sharpton, love them or hate them, have based their careers on fiery rhetoric and race-baiting. I don't think either Sharpton or Jackson fit into the realm of the description "...articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy...". Okay, Jackson was fairly cute when he was about 20 years younger. And you can't say that Jackson isn't articulate. (that's a quality I won't give to Sharpton - he's downright obtuse at times). So Bright and Clean? Does Jackson come off that way? I guess the "Clean" word is a contentious one, because what do we mean here. Physical Grooming habits? (moustache). Or ethically clean? Jackson, Sharpton AND Braun all have some ethical controversy tied to them. Obama, so far, does not. Other than the "middle name" - which Americans are either going to come to accept, or not.

Carol Mosely Braun - frankly, I like her, and think she would have been a good president too. And as far as "qualities" go - she's got them. But she does not possess the raw charisma of Obama. And the ethical cloud that hangs over her could be brought to bear by the Mighty Wurlitzer (whether it's valid or not) if she were to run.

Obama very carefully, (but easily) straddles the line between being Sharpton and Jackson-like, and being too watered-down. And nobody has traced any dirty dealings to him yet. So what Biden says, is correct - and not at all racist.

Guess I dont't consider Jackson, Braun and Sharpton to be mainstream. Or Alan Keyes or Shirley Chisholm.

Why do conservatives give RUSH LIMBAUGH a pass for repeatedly calling Obama a "HALF-RICAN AMERICAN"?

While Biden's comments seem rooted in arrogance and condescension, Limbaugh is clearly coming from an assumption of mockery and hostility to Obama's basic racial identity. And yet he suffers no consequences at all.

You can't see the smallest bit of racism in that statement? He's pretty much saying Obama is the only African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking.

Yes, the comments can very easily be offensive because of their racial insensitivity. But Obama's whole campaign is about presenting himself in exactly those terms. The guy has spent a lot of time and money to brand him in his current image. That's what marketing campaigns do.

Still, Biden was very stupid here.

Joe Biden is in the pocket of the credit card industry. He has no brief at all with the problems of ordinary working men and women. Want proof, read his bankruptcy bill.

I have an idea. At two years out let us, the Democratic Party, spend all of our time inexorably, one by one, beating the living snot out of all of our candidates.

That way, by the time the actual primary process begins, there will only be one scarred and battered person left.

Jeeze, I am beginning to wonder if we really deserve the democracy that was handed us.

Dont over react. Biden doesnt have a chance to win, he is a good Senator. His criticisms of the others' policies are valid. There is no need to try to keep him from winning the nomination; he cant win anyways.

I am not a fan of Biden, but this was a transcription of a conversation. I am willing to bet it sounds a lot better than transcibed and that the personal descriptions are in parallel with the African American, not modifying it. As far as 'clean', I suspect that refers to clean-cut, a somewhat old school description that also fits John Edwards.

Biden is not presidential material for lots of reasons. But I really want to hear his words before labelling him racially insensitive. I think he deserves better.

Clearly Biden is not tactful or politically skillful.

However, it does seem to me he has a point. Whoever is the next president, and it may well be a Democrat, is going to have to do *something* about Iraq. Since, on the face of it, all the options are terrible, the President is going to get tarred with the consequences of whichever terrible path he/she chooses. I don't find the Clinton, Edwards, or Obama plans remotely persuasive that they won't continue/worsen the chaos.

The Biden plan might work if we were, say, the Roman empire. I think in the TV era we are too squeamish to carry it out with enough thoroughness to succeed.

If the Democratic congress succeeds in forcing us out of Iraq before the election, and the situation there descends further into some form of ugliness, as it very likely will, and particularly if that has consequences for the oil supply, then the next President will be a Republican (making bogus but colorable claims that the disaster wouldn't have happened except for those lily-livered Democrats).

Hence the appeal of non-binding resolutions, no doubt.

Keith G, you're right, but I can never resist an opportunity to take a smack at Biden just for being Biden. Every presidential election cycle he shows up expecting--or at least pretending to expect--to be taken seriously. If he actually wanted to act like a Democrat with a spine, credibility and authority, he's had plenty of wasted opportunities to do so over the past six years.

Kevin, I agree with you; it's just a matter of time before we see a takedown gaffe. Biden lost me during the Roberts hearing. If ever one wants an example of someone in love with his own voice, man, that's the ticket, the very definition of bloviating. And although I'm not a big fan of Jesse Jackson (he coulda been a contenda), he cleaned Biden's clock in '88, you might recall.

Seems like a lot of people are getting outraged without being able to contradict what he said. The reality is that the main three African American candidates really were messes. Sharpton and Jackson were undeniably corrupt (and neither was handsome), and Keyes was just fucking nuts. Almost no one ever heard of any of the others.

If you look at the past black Presidential candidates - Obama DOES possess certain qualities that none of the others have.

Obama possesses certain characteristics that a fair number of past white presidential candidates haven't had either.

Some are suggesting the sentence was poorly punctuated by the editor, that a comma is missing:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American, who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

The comma before "who" changes the meaning significantly.

Here's how I read it: "Not only is Obama the first mainstream African-American presidential candidate, but he's also articulate and bright..."

Obama is a double threat, in other words.

"Clean" is a bit of a problem unless Biden meant "clean" in an ethical sense. But if that's the case, then Obama is a triple threat.

By no means a Biden fan, just interested in fairness.

He could say the clean in his comments meant - free of political scandal. However, in view of his comments about 7-11 and Indians, and his bragging about coming from Delaware a slave state I don't think there will be much symapathy from the minority community. He's just a tad bit too superficial and insensitive.

Extradite Rumsfeld: "Jackson and Sharpton, love them or hate them, have based their careers on fiery rhetoric and race-baiting."

One white person's "race-baiting rhetoric" is, more often than not, an African-American's "truth".

Jesse Jackson finished second overall in the 1988 Democratic primary campaign, having won a number of primaries and caucuses, including an atonishing triumph in Michigan. The reason for his strong showing was that he was the only Democratic candidate who was addressing issues important to the Midwest's family farmers and indistrial workers, the vast majority of whom are white.

Even my aforementioned grandmother, a farmer's wife, voted for him in the Illinois primary.

Disclosure: I was elected as a Jackson delegate from Hawaii, when he won the caucuses out here.

However -- and this is a striking example of how internal political party politics can be corrupted by well-placed insiders -- only 14 of our 28 Hawaii delegates were up for election by mainstream Democrats in those caucuses. The governor, as titular head of the state party, was designated by party rules to appoint the other 14.

Jackson took 60% of the caucus vote in Hawaii, and received 9 of the 14 potential delegates available to him. But because then-Gov. John Waihee had already pledged his support to Mass. Gov. Michael Dukakis, he appointed 14 Dukakis supporters. So Dukakis held the pledges of 19 of the 28 Hawaii delegates, despite receiving a little less than 40% of the vote.

Senator Joseph Biden is a long standing member of the Democratic party and has been praised as a great senator by people on this site. He has said what most liberals were thinking; "We finally have a really good black man to run for president; I though we were all out."

This guy has now made two bonehead comments but still the liberals will stand by him and pretend it wasn't that big of a deal.

Biden has now said the equivilent of the word macaca - twice.

The only way to get anyone kicked out of the Democrat party is to have them say they support President Bush.

Liberals are hypocrites.

Why do conservatives give RUSH LIMBAUGH a pass for repeatedly calling Obama a "HALF-RICAN AMERICAN"?

Because Rush is a vile, despicable example of why Americans manage to alienate so much of the world. We expect him to act like a pig and he never disappoints us. Biden seems capable of learning and acting like a civilized human being.

Hey, I actually think Biden is RIGHT about Obama. He's wrong about a hell of a lot of other stuff, but he's right about this.

If he were white, we wouldn't even be discussing him.

For people who can not understand why the statement quoted in this post is racist:

One word:

"articulate"

Articulate? Are you kidding me?!? Whatever you think of Obama - and I am an Edwards supporter who agrees w/ Kevin that Obama's policies do not quite match his rhetoric - Obama might just be the most eloquent orater to grace the U.S. Senate since Daniel Webster. Senators are supposed to be good oraters, and you do not call good oraters - much less great ones - "articulate". You call teenagers, assembly line workers, and prisoners "articulate" when they make an intelligent point clearly. Oh yeah, there is one other group of people you call "articulate" when they do not sound like complete idiots: black people.

Face it: the quote was racist, and if Biden said it, he needs to apologize.

Hard to believe anyone could run a more hapless campaign than Christopher Dodd.

OK, I just listened to the audio of the interview (link at TalkingPointsMemo.com).

Absolutely no question there should have been a comma in the transcript before "who."

Edwards a lightweight? Nonsense.

With such comments, Biden is only making things easier for the mainstream (and corporate centrist Ivy League) media's wet dream of a strictly Clinton-Obama race.

Biden is not presidential material for lots of reasons. But I really want to hear his words before labelling him racially insensitive. I think he deserves better.
Posted by: Nat on January 31, 2007 at 3:18 PM | PERMALINK

Well, one CAN be a complete clod, and still be well-intentioned when it comes to race.

He has been an incumbent since 1972. Incumbents don't need to work on their electability skills to stay employed. (which well explains Lieberman).

I do agree with Ron Beyers, that Biden would be unacceptable as President due to his acts of fellatio on Big Credit.

As long as I was throwing out Feingold, I may as well convey my enthusiasm for Kucinich, as well. Feingold and Kucinich are the only D candidates that give me any hope of Real Change.

I think in the TV era we are too squeamish to carry it out with enough thoroughness to succeed.
Posted by: Stuart Staniford on January 31, 2007 at 3:27 PM | PERMALINK

I think that a large number of Americans are deeply disappointed that Bush did not carry this out with enough thoroughness to succeed. I warned them that he wouldn't do it, despite all his tough talk. (ie. Iraqi Genocide). They re-elected the fucker anyway.

With that crowd - Bush has already lost this conflict on those terms. Plus-up is more empty promises to "take the gloves off". Lets watch that fail too, shall we? Then we can have a more honest discussion about what we're really going to do about Iraq. Because the dead-enders out there still believe we're going to turn Iraq into a glass parking lot when push comes to shove. Boy are their slack-jaws going to hit the floor.

In our nation's racial culture, "articulate" has taken on the meaning of "talks pretty good for one of them." (When was the last time you heard a white person with a Harvard Law degree described as articulate?) It is -- or was -- a perfectly useful word, but unfortunately it has to be used selectively, and unfortunately Senator Biden has trouble with selectivity.

Commagate.

Obama is articulate and Biden is jealous of that.

The argument that Biden is not making some pretty odious racial assumptions here is pretty ridiculous to me. Now I can perhaps except the argument that perhaps the writer simply didn't place the comma properly. This would make the statement merely obnoxiously condescending and more than a little stupid. But clearly if we take the statement as it is written, he is making a statement something along the lines of "hey, he is one of those well spoken black folks. Not like the rest of them." Most sentient human beings do not feel it is necessary to point out that a particular professional politician is clean and articulate. Not unless they are stating it to contrast some other normative assumption. People do not for instance make statements noting what a wonderfully articulate white man Joe Biden is. If you cannot see the racism in this, then I am not sure how that you can notice te racism in anything that isn't overtly hateful.

If you can reasonably add a comma before the "who", and the whole brouhaha goes away, add the damn comma.

Josh Marshall insists there's still a big controversy even with the comma added.

The guy seems to have lost his marbles on this one.

Josh Marshall insists there's still a big controversy even with the comma added.

I do not agree that it is a controversial statement with the comma added - just a stupid one.

I don't know, Biden's comments probably look worse in print. When spoken they sound like a run-on thought, not racist, a bit clumsy perhaps.

I was at that infamous event three years ago when Congressman Jim Moran allegedly made an anti-Semitic remark in the Q&A period of a town meeting during the run-up to the Iraq war. It was around 9 pm after a long day. It was a clumsy remark for sure but no one in the room, including a handful of Jews, said they were offended at the time. Only after his comment appeared in print did people launch into him.

I'm sure people with an agenda will go after Biden, too. But let's get real -- this is nowhere near the pure bigotry expressed recently by Rep. Virgil Goode or former Senator George Allen.

Orwell wrote: He has said what most liberals were thinking; "We finally have a really good black man to run for president; I though we were all out."

You have absolutely zero evidence that "most liberals" were thinking that.

You are a pretentious phony.

What really matters here is that Biden just permanently alienated the most most loyal constituency of the Democractic party - black voters.
It really doesn't matter now whether there should have been a "comma" someplace in that quote. I doubt if black voters will really care.

This guy has now made two bonehead comments but still the liberals will stand by him...

Pretty funny Orwell. When hasn't your fearless Leader made a bonehead comment?

Most sentient human beings do not feel it is necessary to point out that a particular professional politician is clean and articulate. Not unless they are stating it to contrast some other normative assumption.

Is it your contention that Biden must have been contrasting Obama with other blacks because all white presidential candidates are articulate, bright, clean, and nice-looking?

The 'gaffe machine' quotient is not hard to observe during Biden's appearances on the Sunday morning shows. As he nears the end of any appearance, he's always correcting, clarifying or re-clarifying himself at the host's or opponent's insistence.

He's never, to my knowledge, made a "Macaca'-level gaffe, but he's always just a few degrees shy of real hot water.

I do not agree that it is a controversial statement with the comma added - just a stupid one.

I think the major stupidity of the remark, with comma added, is only that it COULD be misinterpreted.

It's hard to see how the content, as it was intended to be conveyed, could be offensive. If it's offensive to compliment the first African American mainstream candidate because it somehow would imply that all other African-Americans must lack the same positive attributes, then God help us all.

How does the damn comma make it go away? With the comma, he was not spefically relating "articulate" and "clean" to being African-American. So? Do you really think he would have referred to a white Senator as "articulate"? Has he ever referred to a white Senator as "articulate"? With the comma he was not being dirrectly racist, he was just being subconsiously racist. So he is not an evil man, I agree. Still needs to apologize.

With the comma, he was not spefically relating "articulate" and "clean" to being African-American. So? Do you really think he would have referred to a white Senator as "articulate"? Has he ever referred to a white Senator as "articulate"?

I think that that kind of language might often be used by a seasoned Senator about a younger colleague who is also a competitor.

In fact, I'd guess the real context of Biden's remarks is that he projects a certain image relative to other Senators and/or Presidential candidates.

I could easily imagine the identical language having been used about, say, John Edwards in his run for President.

frankly0-
I am an attorney. If someone called me "articulate", I would not *NOT* feel complimented. OF COURSE I'm articulate, I made it through law school, why wouldn't I be?

Obama is U.S. Senator. Do you really think "articulate" is a compliment?

Josh Marshall insists there's still a big controversy even with the comma added.

Josh said, "Even with the comma it's really condescending bordering on racist." But that was before he heard the audio. Now he says the transcript was pretty clearly misleading. Not clear whether he's changed his mind about the comment having been "condescending bordering on racist."

As to whether "articulate" should be considered "racially charged" when referring to a black person, as Josh claims, I think there's some circular reasoning going on here. If a person is racist, then it's racially charged. To suggest that using the term somehow proves a person is racist assumes that all white people are articulate, such that one would make that comment only about a black person. I think that's nuts, frankly, and quite possibly racist itself.

Wake the fuck up liberals! This country elected GWB president twice. Twice for god sakes. If you think about what Biden actually said you might realize that in the grand strategy of presidential politics he might just be right. And i must qualify this by saying I like Obama and I really don't find much wrong with H. Clinton.

Liberals are hypocrites.
Posted by: Orwell on January 31, 2007 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

No, we think before we throw stones, unlike rupublicants who never met a person they didn't want to condemn to hell and make them pay for the transport.
Conservatives are winning the hypocrite competition oh about 22-3 right now. You guys are in a league of your own.

If someone called me "articulate", I would not *NOT* feel complimented. OF COURSE I'm articulate, I made it through law school, why wouldn't I be?

I know several lawyers whom I would not characterize as "articulate." Speaking comprehensible English is not necessarily equivalent to being articulate.

"Face it: the quote was racist, and if Biden said it, he needs to apologize."

Decnavda, I really hate to break this news to you so late in your life, but you're a fucking moron.

Decnavda,

Look, remember the context here. Biden regards Obama as a competitor, obviously. What he is trying to say, in a sly way, is that Obama projects a certain glib image (much as Edwards did before him), but that maybe he's lacking in substance.

What Biden chose to do, I think, is to pay Obama a certain compliment, but to damn him with a faint kind of praise: as not yet being "substantial" enough to run for President.

Biden, as evidenced by the earlier Indian-at-Dunkin'-Donuts remark, is a rhetorical loose cannon, which makes him a less than attractive candidate.

I'm certainly not going to argue he's a virulent racist, but I do think using the word "articulate" shows a blind spot -- as Chris Rock says, decribing a black man as articulate implies you thought he'd talk like an idiot. And where did "clean" come from? That's how everyone in A Hard Day's Night described McCartney's grandfather.

Josh Marshall seems to be falling back on "but I do respect his knowledge of foreign policy". Good Christ -- he just about helped usher in the Iraq war; I'd say he's exactly the sort of "serious" Dem foreign policy expert we've got to STOP listening to.

20 years ago, when Biden was first running for president, I did my best to like him, but I got an immediate Charles Grodin vibe from him. I think he's a self-obsessed windbag who's hit-and-miss on the issues (with a big miss on anything related to his beloved credit card companies). He's no one I want as my presidential choice.

plunge-

Oh, I see, you must be right. I stand in awe of your brillant reasoning.

Actually, Gandalf, America chose Gore in 2000 but we were overrruled by 5-4 margin by a shameless Supreme Court who didn't have the stones to even sign their names to it. Remember? And as for '04, the vote was 50.3% for Bush.

Back to Biden. It's all academic. He won't get the necessary $50 million needed to sustain. There are only three (3) Dems who will: Obama, Clinton and Edwards.

I'm no Biden fan, but it seems to me, after hearing the audio of his remarks, that he's getting a raw deal.

Listen at: http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=463858485

Edwards is a lightweight? Takes one to know one. Biden has been in the U.S. Senate since he was 29.
First, I'm always suspicious of people who enter politics--as candidates--at a young age. Did this guy ever have a life outside of the senate? He graduated from law school in 68.

Second, "only" reading policy papers and books are no substitute for real-world experience. Biden, a hawk, is also a draft-dodger. Yet, like the neocons, is considered a defense expert.

Whatever.

And where did "clean" come from

I think similar or even the identical term might have been applied to John Edwards, for example.

I think "clean", "all-American", "articulate" all pretty well fit together in a certain kind of projected image. I believe that Biden was probably driving at this.

Edwards is a lightweight?

Perhaps he was a bit when he first ran for President.

More importantly, that's how he was depicted by his competitors.

One way of summarizing what I'm saying about Biden is that what the remarks revealed in Biden was not, I believe, racism, but rather competitiveness.

Extradite Rumsfeld please admit that you don't like Jackson because he STILL, well into the 21st century, wears leisure suits (custom made, no less), and you can't deal it. Ha, ha.

Wake the fuck up liberals! This country elected GWB president twice. Twice for god sakes.
Posted by: gandalf on January 31, 2007 at 4:14 PM | PERMALINK

gandlaf,
you need to read the MYDD web site everyday for about a week. The statistical evidence is in. The trends are clear. The country is becoming more liberal and more partisanly democratic with every month that passes. It's not the same landscape as 2004.
The 2006 mid terms were the tip of the iceberg. Furthermore, the right wing media machine is starting to lose credibility and power as blogs such as this one fact check them and comedy shows mock them for their pro GOP lies.

Hmm, I wonder who is really the gaffe machine here.

Seems to me that Biden provided his assessment of the prospects of each candidate, from his perspective, and did a fairly good job of outlining some things that might go in their favor and also against them. He is, after all, running against them, and presumably the reporter did ask him for his opinion.

The sneer in the tone of the article was clearly either provided, or at the very least added to, by the person who wrote it. Then Kevin picks up the sneery tone and doubles down by calling Biden a "gaffe machine." Rather a gaffe in itself, I think--both Horowitz and Drum joining in on ripping on a Democrat for (allegedly) ripping on Democrats.

Biden is probably wrong in thinking that he'll win the nomination, but I wouldn't call him a "gaffe machine"--at least not over this article.

And I don't get the racism thing at all. Obama does have that squeaky-clean Wonder Bread commercial look--the one that just makes people feel so good about him that they'd buy the product he's selling. In combination with his other attributes, this makes him the first African American presidential candidate who might easily claim to have widespread appeal. And he is somewhat inexperienced, which (Biden hopes) could go against him.

Biden's words, while frank, don't seem snotty--but the tone of the article sure does.

Good heavens.. (as Rummy likes to say)...

Is this someone speaking plainly about a topic that tangentially involves race? He must be a racist then. ...or so the (outrage) logic goes.

This illustrates one of the chief failings of us white liberals. Some of us inadvertently make ourselves hypocrites because, although we champion noble causes (like civil rights), we fail to see that we haven't personally resolved the issues underlying that cause (i.e., racism, legacy of slavery).

So, someone says "Black people sure love to go to church." The white liberal jumps in and says, "that makes me uncomfortable, so you're a racist." A reconstructed southerner (like me) replies, "you misunderstand how central the church has been to black's sense of community and social integrity (and continues to be), so 'no, that is not racist, only off-handed.'"

It's hard to see how the content, as it was intended to be conveyed, could be offensive. If it's offensive to compliment the first African American mainstream candidate because it somehow would imply that all other African-Americans must lack the same positive attributes, then God help us all.

Its not hard to see for me. As many others have pointed out, referring to black people as articulate has, for a very long time now, been the sort of language that people use as a kind of shorthand for "you're one of those good negros." Believe me when I tell you that there is probably not a reasonably well educated black person on the planet earth who is not intimately familiar with this sort of back handed compliment. So for Biden , an experienced politician and one who depends a great deal on the black vote, to use this particular phrasing can only be described as stupid.

After listening to the remarks, I'd agree that Biden is getting a raw deal. Another tempest in a teapot. Personally I'm still more concerned about his plagerism problems from the last time he ran for President. I really think Biden sees himself, or is trying to position himself, as a kind of Democratic version of John McCain circa 2000. A maverick straight shooter who will give you the honest poop on any question you ask him. The problem with Biden is far too often he comes off as too smug, too condescending and too arrogant.
As for Kevin's remark that Biden is "just a gaffe machine waiting for someone to flip the power on." All I would do is direct your attention towards the current President. Making stupid and bone-headed comments has served him pretty well. People seem to think it is part of his "charm."

orwell: ..hypocrites.

if its something bush supporters know...

its hypocracy..

MaxGowan thanks for correcting that obvious error. But never the less my point still stands. And that is that there's a whole lot of dumbasses in this country. Think about it I've actually read posts on this site that tout Bush as a good leader because he ran a couple businesses befor he got into politics. Excuse me while I gag for a minute or the next two years. The point is we need to have somebody electable thats not gonna polarize people from the getgo.

[oh, I forget my point.]

The point is: what Biden said was off-handed, but it surely wasn't racist. It is seen as racist, I hypothesize, because some of us white liberals like the image of ourselves as "champions of the negro cause" and all kinds of other progressive things. But because we're still rotten on the inside, it makes us uncomfortable, and we project our discomfort at those who've already resolved their inner conflict on the issue.

Right, Gandalf, and that won't be Clinton or Obama. Neither can take the South, for starters. And that settles that right then and there. I don't think Clinton could even take Pennsylvania. (I'm from W NY, go there a lot; don't see it happening.) America is simply too racist to elect a Black Democrat (although not a Black Republican), and too sexist to elect a Dem woman -although Clinton ain't exactly the best test case, to be sure. It ain't fair, but it is the deal.

I look forward to the Repub attacks on Edwards being a trial lawyer. We'll need to remind them that a guy named Abe Lincoln became wealthy by being a trial lawyer. William Howard Taft was another.

I think the reason so many people have "animus" towards Biden is quickly apparent in the linked article. He's very quick to badmouth other Democrats. I find him obnoxious. The sooner he exits the campaign the better.

Is it possible that some here think that a white person calling a better-educated, better-spoken black person "articulate" happened for the first time here? Are you guys really not aware that this is a hot-button word for many black people?

If someone can produce one instance of Biden calling a "younger competitor" who happens to be white "articulate," as though that's the best compliment he can pay a white Harvard law graduate and U.S. senator, I'd like to hear it.

Doubt Biden's intending to be overtly racist. But the "articulate compliment" has long been a rueful joke in the black community. It is, quite simply, a way for a well-meaning but clueless white person to express pleased surprise that the black guy speaks so much like us.

So, someone says "Black people sure love to go to church." The white liberal jumps in and says, "that makes me uncomfortable, so you're a racist." A reconstructed southerner (like me) replies, "you misunderstand how central the church has been to black's sense of community and social integrity (and continues to be), so 'no, that is not racist, only off-handed.'"

This is a reversed analogy. Biden was not talking about what black people like to do. If one is proceeding from the basis of the interpretation without the comma, he was describing the characteristics of one black person in contrast to others. So your particular analogy would be more like hey listen I like Obama. He is one of those black people who like to go to church, just like me.

I hate to say it Nemesis but MaxGowan is right. I wish you were right but I don't see it out here in the heartland. Therefor lets at least try to get these Dems to play it smart by putting a candidate that can win out.

Am I the only one that can tell there is a real difference in the oratory skills of this president, and the last one? Remarking that Clinton is far more "articulate" than Bush is hardly racist. Anyone that thinks so is an idiot, I'm sorry to have to say.

People are compared to their peers. Biden could as easily well have been making the "articulate" comment as a comparison between Obama and his peers, ie other Senators, not the black community at large.

So he might have been saying that Obama is a particularly good speaker by Senatorial standards.

Or do all white senators have the same oratory skills, and none stick out ahead of others in this capacity? Are we that f***ing stupid?

So saying that a politician is articulate is generally meant as a comparison to his peers, not his ethnic community. Politicians are compared to their competition, just as people in every field are.

If you heard someone say, "Wow, Steve Nash can play ball", would you assume that the person really meant that since white people can't play basketball worth a shit, he's overcome a lot to be pretty good? Or would you take the comment at face value?

Setting aside the fact that Biden's hair implants look like a cornfield after a swarm of locust came through, Joe has bent over and taken it in the ass so many times from Bush that he now gets alimony payments from him. Joe is George's bitch and he is also a spineless jellyfish that has no vision of his own. Can anyone name one piece of significant legislation he has sponsored in his long term in Congress? Quick - didn't think so.

America doesn't need a wishy-washy whore that will dither for four years. We need someone who is his own man and who is not beholden to special interests and who will take action to address the myriad of problems Bush is leaving behind. While I share Biden's concern about Obama's inexperience, I seem to recall a guy from Crawford, Texas that was dumber than a fencepost and who had very little relevant experience who was elected (well, kinda) president. Twice. At least Obama is smart. John Edwards is the man.

Wow deflator tells us how you really feel. Sure Edwards maybe. Bill Richardson maybe better.

Wow deflator tells us how you really feel. Sure Edwards maybe. Bill Richardson maybe better.

If you heard someone say, "Wow, Steve Nash can play ball", would you assume that the person really meant that since white people can't play basketball worth a shit, he's overcome a lot to be pretty good? Or would you take the comment at face value?

Again, this analogy is incorrect and seems to be designed to deliberately ignore Biden's actual words. If someone said, on the other hand: "Listen. I like Steve Nash. He is one of the first white people who can really play basketball well." I would think there are two pretty disturbing racial assumptions in that statement. You see, he didn't just mention Obama. He mentioned his race. Taking the comment at face value means taking that into account.

"articulate" is racist code and everyone knows it. give me an effing break!

and listen to the awe in biden's statement. he's stunned and amazed at this surprisingly gifted black man. it's as if he's never encountered such a thing in his life...

offense is in the eye of the offended. if you think otherwise, you're an asshole...

Richardson delivered a real whopper on his resume, claiming to have played Major League Baseball. When he was calle on it, he delivered a really slimy response, "Oh yeah . . . an error." I have a good friend who has lived in New Mexico since '99, says he's like that, has done absolutely nothing of note as Governor. Another also-ran

Is it your contention that Biden must have been contrasting Obama with other blacks because all white presidential candidates are articulate, bright, clean, and nice-looking?

No I am contending that Biden is contrasting that if one takes the statement as written, without assuming the comma, then Biden is very clearly making a statement that normatively assumes that being articulate is an noteworthy trait for a black person in particular. I am contending that because that is what those words mean.

Max George Bush claims to be a human being. Most of the sentient beings on the planet have called him on that. If thats the worst Richardsons done I can live with it. As to what he's done go to wikipedia. There usually unbiased.

Sorry. The first part of that should read "No I am contending that if one takes the statement as written,..."

Racist statement? Give me a break! People (mostly the media and the bloggers)are falling all over themselves waiting (with baited breath) for Biden to step in it. It's like they waited for Gore to wear the wrong colors, or for Bush to trip over his words. Biden saying the wrong thing is a media story line. Think for your self. Biden's a talker! He's going to say stuff, but calling this a racist statement is over the top. The coverage Obama's been getting is over the top, too.

Gandalf - this is academic; Richardson is going nowhere. My knowledge is admittedly second hand, but my friend has been the consistenly most astute political observer I've known for 32 years (he is the son of a former Asst. Attorney General, semi-famous, FWIW), and he just absolutely despises Richardson. He almost wrote the Kerry campaign to beg them not to consider Richardson, he feels that strongly. I trust my friend's judgment on this one. Apologies for the brevity.

I also tend to write off anyone so highly praised by the Cato Institute.

Biden has no chance and I don't know why one of his friends won't tell him that.

If he were white, we wouldn't even be discussing him.

If he were uninspiring and uncharismatic, we wouldn't be discussing him. However, he is both and that's why he's a frontrunner.

Can anyone name one piece of significant legislation he has sponsored in his long term in Congress? Quick - didn't think so.

The abomination referred to as the Bankruptcy Reform act comes to mind. And is one major reason why I would never support Biden.

Allen: " ... leisure suits (custom made, no less) ..."

Custom-made or not, leisure suits are surely one of the most frightening affronts to fashion ever conceived by designers.

travy: " ... listen to the awe in biden's statement ..."

... as the Democratic Party's resident Senate blowhard reminisces about one of his own floor speeches.

God help the party if he somehow ever becomes its presidential nominee.

Jimm: "Biden has no chance and I don't know why one of his friends won't tell him that."

That's because self-righteous and self-absorbed guys like Joe Biden surround themselves with sycophants and co-dependents.

Donald from Hawaii: That's because self-righteous and self-absorbed guys like Joe Biden surround themselves with sycophants and co-dependents.

Or like George Bush.

BTW, does Biden fire or force to resign everybody who disagrees with him or is that only Bush?

Biden wants to be the new (and improved) Dick Cheney, not president.

Leave him in peace.

He will have no impact on the race for the presidential nomination whether you attack him, praise him, or ignore him, so quit wasting type and just ignore him.

Is it possible that some here think that a white person calling a better-educated, better-spoken black person "articulate" happened for the first time here? Are you guys really not aware that this is a hot-button word for many black people?

Who ever called Bush articulate? Or Quayle? Or Eisenhower? Or Ford? Or a bunch of other meally-mouthed Presidents and Presidential candidates? Wasn't one of John Kennedy's great atttributes that he WAS articulate?

Now, I'll grant that the term "articulate" might be considered a pejorative by blacks. And maybe Biden stepped into that. But I don't know how anyone can assume that Biden had the slightest clue about that -- I think that that point would have been lost on a great many of us.

In the end, it's going to be very difficult to talk about Obama at all if everywhere people step rhetorically they are excoriated for racism. People are going to throw up their hands in disgust if wolf gets cried too often and on too slight a ground.

This would be a perfect example of what people in larger public will find simply ridiculous as something indicating racism.

And Obama's supporters had better come to understand that point if they want their man to win.

You mean nobody every called Jesse Jackson articulate?

Or Martin Luther King?

Or that each took it as a racial slur?

Puhleeeeeese.

The first part of that should read "No I am contending that if one takes the statement as written,..."

The statement wasn't "written" per se. It's a transcript of an oral interview. And if you listen to the audio, it's obvious that the transcript is misleadingly punctuated; there should be a comma before "who."

So you can't even take the statement as transcribed.

"offense is in the eye of the offended. if you think otherwise, you're an asshole..."

I definitely think otherwise in many situations, but I don't think I'm an asshole.

Offense is in the eye of everyone. It's not hard for the public to look at an incident and say, "Wow that person really over-reacted." Just because someone feels offense, doesn't mean it was intended, or even that most people would feel offended in the same situation.

Soem people take offense at being wished "Merry Christmas". Likewise, other people get offended when other religious celebrations are given mention alongside Christmas, or get offended when someone wishes them a "Happy Hanukah" or Eid Mubarak.

I firmly belief the feeling of offense is the problem in those situtations, not the well-wishers.

Similarly, if someone is handing out compliments in ways that can be interpreted as damning with faint praise, the you should look for other things he said to support your assessment of it as an insult. Otherwise, it sounds like faux-outrage. And I'm just about sick of hearing faux-outrage as a weapon to shut up people you don't want to listen to. The Republicans are absolute masters of this practice, playing the morality card at every turn to avoid debate. They've been doing it for as long as I've followed politics.

We really don't want to go there...

Tell me, can an ugly white woman call a good-looking black woman beautiful or is that also a hot-button word for blacks because it's racist for an ugly white person to note that there are better looking blacks in the world than him or her?

And tell me this: if the white person were actually better looking, would that be wrong also? Say, if Rebecca Romjin said that Kerry Washington was really pretty?

Or is it that certain people read "for a black person" into every statement of every white person so they can call them a racist, since clearly they have nothing better to do?

"offense is in the eye of the offended. if you think otherwise, you're an asshole..."

I'm personally offended by your statement.

I'm sure you think I have nothing to be offended by.

Ergo, you must be an assh*le.

Perhaps Biden simply meant to say that Obama is more articulate than Biden is. Which is true.

brent: I see my mistake in reading the alleged statement. It does read that Biden essentially said "Obama's the first serious black contender -- he's handsome, smart, articulate, (and fatally inexperienced)." So my analogy was not analogous; it was more of an aside.

It still seems like a Red Herring. Biden thinks Obama's inexperienced. That's it.

I would characterize Mr Obama as especially articulate, handsome, clean-cut, and smart. Being an impassioned speaker (E.g., articulate) is probably his most outstanding characteristic. No one's playing jungle music behind any attack ads. No one's saying he studied in a madrasah. No one's clipping Obama at the ankles, but they are to Biden. It's a Red Herring.

Biden has long been a living caraciture of a modern U.S. Senator, same with McCain; guys who just cannot, under any circumstances, keep their mouth shut in front of a microphone, or their mug away from a camera, if there is any opportunity within a five mile radius to do otherwise. The longer these guys stay in that clubby little group, the more likely it that they will become afflicted with the malady. On average, the most useless life-form in the galaxy is a U.S. Senator who has served more than three terms.

Google_This: "BTW, does Biden fire or force to resign everybody who disagrees with him or is that only Bush?"

I agree that my characterization of Joe Biden as someone who surrounds himself with sycophants and co-dependents also applies to George Bush -- it also applies to Joe Lieberman and my own senator, Dan Inouye. It's not an uncommon trait for those in politics and public life.

And what makes you imply that only right-wing ideologues can be intolerant of dissent?

Extradite Rumsfeld wrote: "As long as I was throwing out Feingold, I may as well convey my enthusiasm for Kucinich, as well. Feingold and Kucinich are the only D candidates that give me any hope of Real Change."

I agree. I supported Kucinich for President in 2004 and I am supporting him again this time.

Kucinich was the only candidate for the Democratic nomination who attended the huge antiwar rally in DC this past Saturday.

Forget it frankly0, If you think you are going to convince the vastly experienced, wise, and uber sophisticated liberal intelligencia assembled here to not join in yet another Democratic circular firing squad, you are mistaken.

Biden is one of those folks who believes it is his mission to save the Democratic Party from excessive liberalism. He's spinach, and I say the hell with him.

Donald from Beautiful Hawaii Nei: "And what makes you imply that only right-wing ideologues can be intolerant of dissent?"

I rescind that rather snarky comment / challenge. I obviously read far more into your statement than what you intended.

As the legendary Emily Litella said, "Never mind."

"Who ever called Bush articulate?"

When I say that Pelosi (my representative, btw) is not a good speechmaker, I am not insulting her. I am pointing out a useful skill that it would be better if she had, but she doesn't. When I say that Bush is not articulate, and I have, I *AM* insulting him. Being articulate is an atribute that someone in his position SHOULD have. To compliment someone on being articulate is to compliment them on meeting the minimum requirements.

"Now, I'll grant that the term "articulate" might be considered a pejorative by blacks. And maybe Biden stepped into that. But I don't know how anyone can assume that Biden had the slightest clue about that -- I think that that point would have been lost on a great many of us."

Thus, Biden was clueless. Forgive me, but I think that someone seeking the Democratic nomination for President *should* know what terms blacks consider pejorative.

Look, I will conceed here on degrees of offense. I think Lott should have been forced to resign from the Senate for his endorsement of Strom's 1948 Presidential campaign, rather than just demoted to a Senate committee chairmanship. This is hardly on that level. But it deserves an appology.

"This would be a perfect example of what people in larger public will find simply ridiculous as something indicating racism."

Well yes, but "people in larger public" (i.e. white people) do not like to admit the existence of unintentional racism.

And I'm just about sick of hearing faux-outrage as a weapon to shut up people you don't want to listen to. The Republicans are absolute masters of this practice, playing the morality card at every turn to avoid debate. They've been doing it for as long as I've followed politics.

We really don't want to go there...

What you said.

I just found a piece on HuffPo--ironically, dated yesterday--titled "Obama the Articulate," pointing out (with quotes) that "articulate" is an exceedingly common way to characterize a politician. Worth a read.

Don't know how to do linkies, but it's here:

tinyurl.com/24namj

From another HuffPo article, posted today:

"In a private interview Tuesday night in New York City, this articulate, attractive candidate told me that..."

Guess who the articulate, attractive candidate was?

Joe Biden.

franklyO: But I don't know how anyone can assume that Biden had the slightest clue about that -- I think that that point would have been lost on a great many of us.

The point continues to be lost on several of you, much to my surprise. Frankly, O (sorry; couldn't resist), I am astounded that so many politically aware, well-read people could have missed the racial connotations of the word "articulate," given how much has been written and said over the years about this particular term, the context in which it is applied to blacks but not whites, and the general black reaction to it.

Once again, the point is not that there exist some white candidates who have not been honored for their articulation. The point is that this is a word used almost exclusively to "compliment" black people whose oratory skills are considered unusual enough to be remarked upon by white people. It is a very loaded term and has long been recognized as such by anyone paying the slightest attention to race relations. Joe Biden, long-term Democratic senator, should be one of those people. That he is not simply reinforces the evidence, mentioned by many above, that the gentleman's listening skills show in poor contrast to his love of hearing himself prattle on.

I don't intend to be snarky here. I think you're one of the most talented and perceptive posters at Political Animal, which is why I'm surprised at your reaction to this issue. This is not "crying wolf" or people unfairly being castigated for inadvertently stepping in it. Intended or not, this is a legitimate gaffe on Biden's part and blaming Obama supporters, whatever that may mean, for excessive sensitivity isn't going to cut it--particularly if Biden is remotely interested in snagging any black votes.

Keith G: If you think you are going to convince the vastly experienced, wise, and uber sophisticated liberal intelligencia assembled here to not join in yet another Democratic circular firing squad, you are mistaken.

Wow. Where did that come from?

SecularAnimist: Tell me, can an ugly white woman call a good-looking black woman beautiful or is that also a hot-button word for blacks because it's racist for an ugly white person to note that there are better looking blacks in the world than him or her?

You might have an analogy there, friend, if that word were frequently used to single out a black woman whom the speaker seems amazed to note is pretty good-looking for a black chick, and if black women had been pointing out forever that they find it amusing when white people act stunned to find a black person beautiful. As it is: beep.

Decnavda: "When I say that Pelosi (my representative, btw) is not a good speechmaker, I am not insulting her. I am pointing out a useful skill that it would be better if she had, but she doesn't."

You know, I absolutely adore Nancy Pelosi, but I agree with you about her "speechifyin'" abilities, which can sound anywhere from mildly annoying to fingernails-across-the-chalkboard grating. She is clearly not very good when she's pre-scripted.

My old friend, Congressman Neil Abercrombie, is one of the more colorful and articulate liberal members in the House today, and when he's addressing a crowd he's positively inspiring. Neil's always at his best when he's literally "winging it", talking off-the-cuff or from just bullet points.

However, when speaking from prepared remarks, Neil's almost as wooden as one of those carved chiefs in from of Knott's Berry Farm's general store.

No doubt I'm biased, but liberals are at their best when speaking from their hearts.

And speaking from the heart -- the great columnist Molly Ivins was released from the hospital today so sh