Bush: Worst President Ever.

Cheney: Worst American Who Ever Lived.

Craige,
I am waiting for Al or American Hawk to try to refute your claim. I can't wait to see the drivel they dream up.

ITMFA.com

I think these claims are irrefutable. Al or AH will just change the subject, or call me "shrill." They won't discuss the substance, because they know I'm right.

So that's Armitage's take:

Hey, Kevin, Armitage was the one who leaked CIA agent Valerie Plame's name to the press, and lied about it later. So how come you libs still trust him? For conservatives like myself, such a treasonous act by him makes him untrustworthy and therefore we conservatives can't believe his word anymore.

Does anyone know why nukes were such a big deal? I mean, what made nukes an invasion-worthy transgression and not chemical weapons?

There's something weird here. Colin Powell went to the U.N. with that vial of anthrax, then we never heard of it again. Was imminent destruction focus-grouped? What did this administration see from the response to Colin Powell (domaestically?) that they felt they had to up the terror alert to nuclear?

2 points:

1. No fact please!

These days discussion list trolls and Republicans (with a few exceptions) can not deal in facts, because they are just too overwhelmingly and consistently grim. Can you think of anything that George Bush has done correctly? Because actual, arguable facts are radioactive to today's right they must attack the character and or motives of their opponents. We liberals "Blame America 1st" or "Hate America" so it doesn't matter if what we are saying is factually true or not. I long for the day when the public discourse can return to fact-based arguments.

2. Media unsophistication

Given that we are all supposed to be so media/internet hip and enabled these days, why is the public so easily fooled? Have we gotten stupider (or no brighter?). I think the hidden answer is that our wonderful economy forces people to work so hard to make a living that they don't have the mental luxury (or energy) to pay attention to public developments outside of the sphere of their everyday lives.

Leaving politics to the politicians might be fine, but only if the politicians are capable and well-intentioned.

James M

We interrupt this program with a news bulletin from Washington, D.C.

THE PRESIDENT: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iran, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.

On my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of military importance to undermine the Iranian regime's ability to wage war. These are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign.

To all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces now in the Middle East, the peace of a troubled world and the hopes of an oppressed people now depend on you. That trust is well placed.

Now that conflict has come, the only way to limit its duration is to apply decisive force. And I assure you, this will not be a campaign of half measures, and we will accept no outcome but victory.

My fellow citizens, the dangers to our country and the world will be overcome. We will pass through this time of peril and carry on the work of peace. We will defend our freedom. We will bring freedom to others and we will prevail.

May God bless our country and all who defend her.

How does this help Scooter? He's on trial for perjury and obstruction of justice, not being the first or only one to leak Valerye Plame's name.

The defense is hoping that the jury is too dumb to notice the difference. They're not.

Scooter's going down.

Oh, and also, Armitage is a snake.

aa

craigie wrote "Cheney: Worst American Who Ever Lived."

Other contenders for that title include:

• Sen. Joseph McCarthy (R-WI)
• Timothy McVeigh
• Anyone involved in the Tuskegee Syphilis Study who was aware that the subjects were denied treatment after the routine use of penicillin in 1947
• William J. Simmons, founder of the second Ku Klux Klan

Joel, don't forget Al!

aa: Oh, and also, Armitage is a snake.

Yeah, a tongue-flicking foul-mouthed gossipy "snake."

Woodward testified that he didn't tell anyone what Armitage told him about Wilson's wife. So far Libby's defense team hasn't made a dent in Fitz' case but they are exposing how the Bush-Cheney WH works... rotten to the core and loose-lipped about national security assets.

Least we forget:

Richard Nixon worked for Joe McCarthy.
and
Dick Cheney worked for Nixon.

The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

Kevin: So that's Armitage's take: the director of the CIA tried to get the uranium nonsense taken out of the State of the Union but Condoleezza Rice didn't have the backbone to stand up to the hardliners in the White House and get it excised.

Nope, I would not expect Bush's Enabling Handmaiden to do otherwise. Loyalty trumps truth.

"Uranium nonsense"?

What about the British, among others, who confirmed the same report independently? And the 9/11 Commission, who called Joe Wilson a liar?

I love the 20/20 hindsight. Just like "all the experts" who predicted exactly what is happening in Iraq.

Another red herring on the Yellowgate road.

Mrs Doubtfire is now really outing C. Rice now because C.Rice was neck deep* in the selling of the other half of this big lie. In 2002 Rice went straight on TV with Judys little tubes of terror and followed it up with smoking mushroom clouds. The focus must now be on the 20 words. The 20 words following the 16 words remain unredacted in spite of being discredited.
( Sear Marcy, FDL, James Moore and etc)
In 2002 with support for illegal aggressive war in SW Asia deflating C. Rice helped pump it back up again with a ' BIG LIE' technique that if she did not know was a lie then she is culpable for criminal negligence. If she did know it was a lie then she is eligible for trial at the Hague.
I call this 'weapon-of-mass-deception' a binary weapon because uranium or the tubes by themselves mean nothing and are inert. It is only combined that they become dangerous.
So the cover-up is real - the cover-up is ongoing.
This ' Yellowgate' scandal is part of the same sustained crime wave that gave us Watergate and Iran/contra. Three strikes and the GOP should be out.
For an interesting precedent on the inbedded disinfo psyop 'blowback' route sear, ' Clare Sterling' or read page 129 of Woodwards book, ' Veil. The secret wars of the CIA'

*As C.Rice may have suffered in the past from hearing about the Nuremberg hangings perhaps she should be offered poison or just shot instead?

And the 9/11 Commission, who called Joe Wilson a liar?

Dude, what are you talking about. Cite the report: don't just make this dubious claim and expect people to accept it prima facie.

And until now, Woodward, Armitage, Tenet, and Rice kept this from the public. Thanks for the war.

"Cite the report: don't just make this dubious claim and expect people to accept it prima facie."

Dude you are on the wrong website for that.

People here still think Bush stole an election and John Kerry is a patriot.

And somehow the Brits still stand behind their yellow cake story but Armitage is believed. Armitage outs Plame and Libby gets blamed for it.

The facts are lacking on this site every day.

chuck, jb is just one of those idiots who repeats the stupid crap he hears on rush and reads on right-wing blogs.

what he meant to say is that he believes that we should outsource intel work to anyone who says what george bush wanted to hear, and he confuses the position taken by 3 republican senators in a senate report with the 9/11 commission (the senators were, of course, completely and totally wrong in trashing wilson, but old habits die hard).

meanwhile jb, you moron: just take a look back in countless threads from 2002 to spring 2003: there were loads of people who predicted this mess. you, like the president, were simply too caught up in the thrill of invading iraq to listen. now go away.

orwell: Libby gets blamed for it.

actually...he lied to a grand jury...

not that dead enders care about facts..

how's that strategery working for ya big o?

James M: I long for the day when the public discourse can return to fact-based arguments.

Me too. But I ain't holding my breath.

Orwell: People here still think Bush stole an election and John Kerry is a patriot.
Bush did, at least once and possibly twice. (Although actually he's probably too effing stupid to steal an election. Daddy's gophers stole it for him, and now wish they hadn't.)

Kerry is.

And the real Orwell spins in his grave every time you take his name in vain.

While I have to admit that I'm a little surprised that Mr. Armitage would discuss an undercover agent in the manner that he did (and I don't know what clearance, if any, that Mr. Woodward has; nor do I know in what environment this discussion took place), the larger issue of the 16 words is remarkable for the lack of outrage it has engendered. Not only did the CIA not want it in the Cincinnati speech, they didn't want it in the SOTU. As far as I can remember from the few reports on the subject, it was removed from the SOTU speech at least once, and despite intense lobbying, was only included with the "British intelligence" caveat. Later, we were told that the white house was unaware of the controversy (!). When it was revealed that a memo containing the CIA's strong objection to the inclusion of the 16 words was received by the white house, we were told that Ms. Rice hadn't seen it (like she needed to), and that her then second (and now NSA) Mr. Hadley had lost it, or something (this is cause for a promotion?)(!)

Up thread there was a question as to why nukes were more of a big deal than chemical weapons - Yes, chemicals can be very deadly - However, the question must have been asked by one who did not spend his or her childhood taking "cover" under school desks - The showing of a nuclear mushroom cloud has far more impact with many voters than the wafting of chemicals on the wind.

Anyone ever hear or read any right winger yelling "Chemical 'em" instead of "nuke 'em"?

Bush: Worst President Ever.
Cheney: Worst American Who Ever Lived.

But they're damn good criminals.

ttP - does napalm count as a chemical?
If so, yeah, I've heard/read that more than a couple times.

Damn, we were pikers!

kenga,

Yeah, I even loved the smell of it in the morning.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16788619/

Oh, yes... the 16 words in the state of the union address.
Excellent comments above from Keith Olbermann related to these 16 words....tying it currently to the Libby obstruction trial, where Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said --we will prove that Libby learned of Valerie Plame Wilson's identity through the vice president.

Make Bush eat yellowcake.

People here still think Bush stole an election and John Kerry is a patriot.

Meanwhile, idiots like you think a lying sack of AWOL shit who destroys democracy and trashes the Constitution is a patriot and that a man who fought valiantly and was wounded in Vietnam, then came home to fight against war atrocities and piss-poor US foreign policy is a traitor. Go figure.

Let's try not to be distracted by poster orwell's incendiary rhetoric. We probably waste precious time with the reflexive contrarian nature of such trolls, and meanwhile could miss out on valued insights.

http://www.jordomedia.com/RSS/l_op=viewrss/lid=10462.html

This site is following the Libby trial well.

joe: "Richard Nixon worked for Joe McCarthy."

I believe that Nixon and Sen. McCarthy both served in Congress at the same time -- but both engaged in shameless red-baiting and trafficked in innuendo, so you are correct to the extent that they truly complemented each other's efforts.

Ironically, one of Nixon's future political adversaries (and a future liberal Democratic Party icon), Robert Kennedy, once worked for "Tail-Gunner Joe".

Then-Rep. Nixon chaired the House Un-American activities Committee in 1948-49 (when he went after Alger Hiss), which gave him the profile and platform to launch a successful bid for the Senate in 1950.

"This site is following the Libby trial well."

If only one could say that of CNN.

Olbermann is following it far better than anyone on cable.

The state of the union statement was true. The assertion that Iraq did NOT attempt to buy yellow cake from Niger is inconsistent with other evidence and from Wilson's other statements. And Plame was not covert.
But don't let truth stand in the way of a good persecution.

Walter, alas, demonstrates that his grasp of "truth" is sadly flawed.

Richard Armitage is a puzzle. I distrust him just a touch less than I do Dick Cheney. The only reason for that is he is exposing his fellow PNAC colleagues as the liars they are. Scooter deserves whatever punishment he gets. Rove & Cheney should be next I would support limited immunity for Armitage only if he spills all the knows about the rest of the gang. The truth is ever so slowly coming out.

A personal view. I am damn sick & tired of the personal attacks against anyone who dares to expose what the extremists choose not to believe. The overwhelming majority of these slanders come from those on the far right, across the whole blogisphere. Character assassination is a tool used by those who cannot support their opinions by the facts. Your rants expose expose the fallacies of your positions. But I would not censor you. You are destroying your cause among people who use their brains as they are meant to be used.

Walter E,

You do need to get new intell - Are you still up there on Arrowhead Ridge with the French Battalion? Get that "Tomahawk" out of your head and expand your horizons.

Wasn't this published long ago? Didn't Tenet already say that he didn't try hard enough to get the 16 words out of the SOTU?

If Armitage is credible (I don't know why not, just saying, because everybody presents himself and his team in a good light), and if this is new, then this ought to enhance Tenet's reputation.

Armitage was the one who leaked CIA agent Valerie Plame's name to the press, and lied about it later.

Nobody speaking on or off the record has been entirely accurate.

Armitage: Because I think it was overruled by the types down at the White House.

Apparently, he doesn't actually know. He may not even know Tenet's last word on the subject to Rice et al. Haven't Tenet, Hadley, and Rice all said in public that there was unsufficient evidence for the statement to have been put into the SOTU?

careful, Joe-- I think the sainted JFK was quite the pal of Tail Gunner Joe's as well.History has a way of making everyone look foolish. I doubt we'll live long enough to see who were the fools this time. But one thing never changes--everyone is dead sure that they're right, at the time.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Rice chose to go with British intelligence on the Yellowcake/Niger affair. To this day, the British stand by their story that Saddam's boys were in Africa shopping for yellowcake. That is a fact. Screaming that it is not will not change things.

What the CIA believed is another thing altogether, but that outfit has had trouble getting things right since the Bay of Pigs. The only reason why you people trust them is because they are engaged in a hostile leaking campaign against the Bush Administration. You people like this.

Thanks, but I'll trust the Mossad and MI-6. The gang responsible for missing 9/11, telling Bill Clinton that Saddam had WMD throughout the 1990's, letting their entire Iranain operation get rolled up by the Revolutionary Guards Corps, and missing the Chinese Naval Buildup is busy blaming the Colored Woman (and Porter Goss) for their own shortcomings. Oh, and leaking highly classified documents to the New York Times.

How freaking typical. A Washington Espionage Beauracracy enlists the opposition party to preserve its perks, priviledges, and entitlements, and you liberals fall for it.

Oh, by the way, as for Dick Armitage, nobody ever accused him of not being self-serving. Everyone is when they sit down with Woodward. Except Condi. She didn't sit down with Woodward, which is why she came out bad in Woodward's book.

When you don't cooperate with Woodward, that's what happens to you.

Oh well, at least no one will give Andy Card a job again. Worst chief of staff ever.

Now, hold on a minute thar, Section 9. I'm no big admirer of CIA competence, but where The Agency has gone wrong over the years, it has been for telling its executive branch what it wanted to hear instead of the straight poop. So exactly how does the CIA benefit from subverting the most Defense-'n'-secrets-lovin' administration they've seen in at least a generation? You're telling me the CIA thought they could better protect their cozy bureaucracy by giving W the runaround and conniving with them electorally humiliated, America-hatin' Democrats? Show me your work.

The constitutional responsibilities of a Vice President are presiding over the Senate. To do this, he does not need a large staff. The Democrats in the House and Senate should defund the imperial "Office of Vice President".

I think we need to understand that this is treasonous. If Dr. Rice, as the national security adviser, was aware that those facts were false, yet allowed them to be used as evidence in order to wage war on a foreign nation, she is liable for treason against the United States.

Sainted JFK?
The same political cynicism that got him into red-baiting helped get him into the Bay of Pigs mess and started us down the road to hell that was the Vietnam War. Leiberman is a good example of the harm that currently is being done by the same soulless calculation. The Democratic Party is currently filled with such irresponcible political calulators who voted on such travisties as the Patriot Act and the approval of the war in Iraq.

You're all operating off of Kevin's assumption of what Armitage meant, not his actual statement.

And of course he even qualified what little Kevin used with the words "I think."

Side question: During all that time everyone was speculating/smearing people on the silly Plame story (care to claim Wilson wasn't sent by his wife now?), Armitage knew he was himself the guilty party. Why didn't he say so publicly? The investigation could have ended there.

Yes, it wasn't Richard Nixon who worked for Joe McCarthy, it was young Bobby Kennedy. The sainted Bobby Kennedy. The father of the man who now does commercials polishing the image of "our good friends in Venezuela" and its state-owned oil company.

prescription pharmacy online prescription pharmacy online

Online Pharmacy cheap online pharmacy store