I am afraid there is no recovery from 8 years of the moron. I used to say (in 2000) it would take 50 years to undo the damage this asshole was about to inflict. I was wrong.

It simply isn't possible.

a trial and execution would go a long way toward ending our long antional nightmare.

Well, ya, when the industry is being extorted by the new Democrat Republic...

he first step to recovery is to admit that one has a problem. In that light, I'll take this as modest good news and adapt my message to include it.

Nads - I have a joke for you - I was recently in a hotel bar with a bunch of other drunken biochem academics and researchers. How do you know the guy trying to pick you up is a geneticist?

Kevin wrote: Today's announcement, they figure, at least gets them a place "at the table" ...

In another recent article on this subject, an executive from Duke Energy was quoted to say "If you don't have a seat at the table, then you're going to be on the menu."

Clearly, the fossil fuel industry is going to push for mandatory national carbon caps that are as weak and meaningless as possible, that will prevent the states from imposing stronger, more effective laws, and even roll back the state laws that are already in place.

Perhaps this is the meat of what they are concerned with preventing?

pre-empting state efforts that could result in a patchwork of differing state and regional regulations.

Are they worried that California and other states may end up being more aggressive than the federal government?

Blue Girl:

The answer has something to do with jeans doesn't it.

Colour me naive.

I think the leaders of *some* of the US' largest utilities (Rogers at Duke Power foremost among them, but also AEP) actually think global warming is a real problem.

And many of them have children and grandchildren, who will live in this new climate we are creating. They hike outdoors, have gardens, go skiing, read general newspapers-- all full of signs of tangible changes in our climate.

This was the year London almost skipped having a winter: bumblebees and crocuses in February. It was 72 degrees in Central Park on 6th January. Across the northern hemisphere last summer, temperatures were the highest ever recorded.

Paul O'Neill at Alcoa came to the same conclusion about global warming, and Alcoa is one of the largest greenhouse gas emitters in the world.

They are all determined that their companies not be commercially disadvantaged. Hence the call for a 'level playing field' from government.

But they do think there is a real problem, and the solution will have to come from government setting allowable standards for CO2 (or creating an auction permit system for CO2 emission, as we have in Europe).

Half the trick in business is to see a bit ahead of the pack. AEP is applying to build gasification-based coal fired plants (IGCC), as the most promising technology for carbon capture and storage (sequestration).

Texan utilities are investing heavily in wind power.

The next 50 years will see a radical decarbonisation of our electric power system, and an extension of electric power into vehicle transportation and other areas. That tsunami-like wave is coming. The news on global warming is not likely to get better from here: only worse.

The smart utility execs are trying to do something about it.

Sure, I know thee Cali and Oaxaca cartels have contributed immensely to the violence and ancillary crime that comes with the illicit drug trade.
But we can trust them to help solve the drug problem around the world.
Right?
Not the best analogy, but I recommend skepticism that the same groups that have contributed most to a set of problems be considered necessary participants to a solution to said problems.

Like, capitalists, for instance ...

By the way, would someone please tell The Left that if they want to be taken seriously as leftists, they're going to need to start beating the Nationalization drum.
I suggest starting with:
- Halliburton and subsidiaries
- ExxonMobil and subsidiaries
- Raytheon and subsidiaries
- Lockheed Martin and subsidiaries

Yelling: Here is the answer -

"If you were a double helix I would want to be helicase so I could unzip your genes."

Nads - I have a joke for you - I was recently in a hotel bar with a bunch of other drunken biochem academics and researchers. How do you know the guy trying to pick you up is a geneticist?
Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka Global Citizen)

I would have said jeans, too. ... hanging head.

Have some coffee, Nads - your an Okazaki Fragment this morning (you're lagging...)

Sorry - I was up all night writing an exam and I am so buzzed on caffein and sleep deprivation everything is a stupid joke to me right now...

*you're an Okazaki Fragment

I know my "their" "there" and "they're" proper usage...

Re: the properties of helicase - groan.

I was hoping the line would be something like "I know how to make a hormone."

That would probably result in a slap, if not a roundhouse...:)

Yeah, the implication is very bad. Given the parameters of the problem I found it very difficult to come up with much of a solution.

As a computer programmer I've found it much better to turn to my love of theatre for amorous banter.

It's a start

No, it's just the next roadblock now that the earlier absolutist position has fallen apart. It's the clever way to be an obstructionist.

But Jerry Falwell has assured me that he doesn't believe in human-induced global warming... And he's my idol...whoops, I'm not supposed to worship false idols am I?

" At least it's a start"

Start of what? Depriving the states, who take global warming seriously enough to enact meaningful laws against global warming & pollution, of the right to clean up where their prople live & work?

We need to remember California's example of passing tougher vehicle emissions standards. Detroit said it couldn't be done, bur they did it anyway. Those tougher standards were eventually introduced nationwide because they worked to lower smog in CA & developing the technology necessary to achieve those goals. CA is still in the lead in developing even more advances in pollution control & answers to Global Warming. Without their incentive, we still would not have hybrid cars or research into hydrogen fueled transportation. This is a start only if the States are free to set their own higher standards.

I was hoping the line would be something like "I know how to make a hormone."
Posted by: Tripp

see ... that one's actually funny.

helicase ... not so much.

Ummm...yeah. And the bold action by Congress? Dicking around with the dates for the (ridiculous and pointless) Daylight Savings Time.

'A recent study has found that one ton of biodiesel made from palm oil grown on Southeast Asia's peatlands is linked to the emission of 10-30 tons of carbon dioxide. Shockingly, this is 2-8 times as much carbon released as in production of a ton of fossil fuel diesel.' - Indonesia's Biofuel Expansion on Rainforest Peatlands to Accelerate Climate Change
http://www.climateark.org/blog/2007/02/
alert_indonesias_biofuel_expan.asp

Today's announcement, they figure, at least gets them a place "at the table," and that place will be used to lobby for the weakest possible national standards.

It's the "foot in the door", "slippery slope", or "thin end of the wedge". Once everyone adapts to the idea of national standards, then the standards will be made stricter. It didn't work out that way with CAFE, but it has worked with food and drug standards, and most other pollution standards.

It could be as bad as the EU "cap and trade" regulation of CO2, where the caps are so high as to be worth nothing. But that will be fixed eventually, and so could US national standards.

It is the threat of lawsuits.

A number of groups have clear claim to damages from the fossil fuel industry, a few:

The Amish - Never on the fossil fuel grid

Native Americans
Intuit
Anybody using public space
Anybody

If the fossil fuel industry tells us that global warming is nonsense, then the damages are treble.

more on solar here.

doubling every 2 years?

here:

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17985/

In recent months, many organizations, corporations and government representatives have been publicly recognizing that human beings are causing dramatic climate changes. As many of you have said above, this is a great step. But if this recognition does not translate into action or solutions, then it is basically without meaning. Keep in mind that all these industry groups were shelling out for massive campaigns of skepticism, some as recent as a few months ago. Keep tabs on what's really going on at:
http://www.desmogblog.com