What's Al Gore gonna do about it? Huh? Huh?!?!

the tubes inside had been made in the United Arab Emirates

my anonymous administration source says those tubes are ideal for use in the kind of centrifuges used to separate fissile-grade uranium. they have no other legitimate use.

Thank goodness our troops found those! It's going to be that much harder for Bush to launch his invasion now, and there are fewer IED's about to kill our soldiers.

This reminds me of my biggest surprise about the Iraq war -- I had no doubt that if we found no WMD, the administration would plant some there. Once again I am surprised at their lack of duplicity, because they allowed this report out.

Maybe I need a tinfoil hat.

Have you seen Al Gore’s electric bill? Connect the dots. He’s manufacturing this stuff at home.

There is all sorts of contradictory evidence that, if the administration wants to use this as part of a causus belli, they had better produce some pretty solid evidence if they want to keep talking this way.

Anyway, it bears repeating that G.W.Bush and his cronies think they can go half way around the world, start an illegal war, bring down a nasty but recognized foreign government, all but destroy the country as well, kill and injure thousand upon thousand of their people (as well as 3100 of our own and injure another 24,000), but . . . but Iran has no stake in a country that borders with it, were attcked by it, with a war that killed hundreds of thousands of their own people, has a (previoulsy repressed) majority of similar religion (where such things matter), and whose government is being funded and guided by foreigners who are antithetical to their own survival.

Not hard to understand how they feel. Yeah, they have a stake.

Even by speculating that reports that these weapons were made in Iran, you're giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Don't you know that confusing the issue confuses the troops? Don't you support the troops?

In a time of war, we must unite behind the Commander in Chief. One people. One country. One leader.

Why, oh why, do we call them Improvised Explosive Devices. They don't seem to be Improvised any more, but manufactured.

CALL THEM BOMBS.

It's galling for PR flacks call them improvised, right after tell us how complex they are. And how they could only be created in X.

Iraq has copper bowls capable of reaching our shores in forty five minutes.

Sketchings done on the backs of cocktail napkins bearing the Presidential emblem suggest these are being produced inside of falafel carts originating from Iran.

Time to re-invade...or something.

The boxes appeared to contain shipments of tubes directly from factories in the Middle East, none of them in Iran.

Hey, Kevin, haven't you ever read detective stories before? The crooks always place misleading "evidence" to try to trick the detective from discovering they're the real culprits. I think this is just a trick by Iran to steer us in the wrong direction with fabricated evidence. If anything, this shows how dangerous they are because they would go to such lengths to fool us into thinking they aren't behind the huge number of bombs and explosives in Iraq.

Maybe AH does have a job.Any copper behind his mommies house.

Well Al does have a point.This Adm. is easily fooled into thinking whatever the terrorists want.

Jeez. I've twigged it. Al is not a conservative troll. He is really an ultra-clever US-hating subversive who is actually supplying IED/IFD matrials to both the Sunnis and Shias in Iraq, but pretending these materials really originate in Iran while cunningly placing false evidence so that he can point out how deceptive the Iranians are.

Gosh, Al, you are just way too smart for all of us. And to think we all thought you were such an idiot.

Well get Mike Hammer's ass to Iraq and figure this shit out.

I just fed Al's last comment into my secret decoder ring and it translated as "There's no evidence Iran is behind it, so they must be!"

BushCo: "If we can use a sentence that says 'Iran,' we must bomb!"

Now that it's come out that we know Iran is behind it, they're clearly importing parts from other countries to build the IEDs, then sending those to Iraq. The fact that we found a factory in Iraq for assembling the parts proves that they're being assembled in Iran, otherwise why would they go to the trouble to make it look like they were assembling them in Iraq?

This has been a tutorial edition of "Conservative Logic For Liberals" not that any of you libs will actually learn anything from my efforts.

The fact that we found a factory in Iraq for assembling the parts proves that they're being assembled in Iran, otherwise why would they go to the trouble to make it look like they were assembling them in Iraq?

Nonsense, real conservatives blame Al Gore.

"..gray plastic PVC tubes.."

The PVC tubes I buy from Home Depot are generally white, however black is a popular color.

"..as well as to arm and trigger."

To trigger, I got on google and examined the hundreds of remote control electronics available.

Trigger? I use model rocket wire.

Otherwise, I am stuck on cutting and stamping copper. Can't I order is pre-cut?

Also, where can I get C4? The best I am able to come up with are sticks of dynamite.

Is there a class? A website?

"And since C-4 is practically currency in the Middle East, who knows what circuitous route it took before making its way into the hands of Iraqi insurgents?"

How about by way of Bush's own incompetence in failing to safeguard Al Qaqaa stockpiles during the initial stages of the invasion? Does anybody remember the 380 ** tons ** of explosives our Improvisational Executive Decider allowed to be looted on their watch? Did they think it was going to the Bush Memorial Construction crews?

if it turns out that the majority of supplies are coming from saudi, then I'm sure that that'll the last we hear of it.

We can't take any chances.

We gotta invade...EVERYBODY!!!

Our security is too important. The smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud! Do you all want to die???

Does anybody remember the 380 ** tons ** of explosives our Improvisational Executive Decider allowed to be looted on their watch? Did they think it was going to the Bush Memorial Construction crews?

Yes, the Bush Memorial Construction Crews, hard at work on Iraq's schools!

You'd be amazed at how many schools a half-ton of C4 can build.

Do you all want to die???

Well, no.

Not that our wishes will make any difference, of course.

Who says C4 is the explosive of choice?

What about the...
"After the invasion, when widespread looting began in Iraq, the international weapons experts grew concerned that the Qaqaa stockpile could fall into unfriendly hands. In May, an internal I.A.E.A. memorandum warned that terrorists might be helping "themselves to the greatest explosives bonanza in history." (NYT 10/04)

Folks, this stuff was IN Iraq B4 we shocked and Awed the desert. The copper, the PVC are minor components, it's the explosives that are killing our troops and causing untold brain damaged casualties.

Think about it...."the greatest explosives bonanza in history." and it happened under our noses. Now how do we blame Iran for that?

Think about it...."the greatest explosives bonanza in history." and it happened under our noses. Now how do we blame Iran for that?

they didn't stop the US from doing it.

It's guilt by omission.

Oh, and ditto for the invasion itself. They should have done something, damn it.

The Religious Right, on the other hand, is obsessed with the dangers posed by IED's because they think they're a form of contraception...

qwdqwdqwd

Wall Street Slammed After China Stock Woes

I would have thought there’d be more appreciation on the left for painting madrasahs.

floopmeister >"...they think they're a form of contraception..."

Well in a way they are correct. In that twisted form of thinking that passes for logic in the ReThuglican brain/mind/whatever they use to program their body moves. If the devices kill a soldier, that soldier is not availabe to reproduce and raise more rightwing nutcases.

See ?

Very simple (just like them)

"Squeezing off a few rounds of automatic weapons fire here in Baghdad is the equivalent of honking your horn in America." - Borzou Daragah

Mush indeed. Who wouldn't be shocked that some parts are being smuggled in from Iran. While the shaky claims about Iranian involvement need to be addressed because the administration is making them, why is no one asking about funding of the Sunni insurgents? The main force killing American soldiers is Sunni based. We know that. What of Saudi and/or Jordanian financing of the Sunni insurgency? When will reporters start asking those questions? Our "ally" Prince Bandar seems to be knee deep in this. I'd like to know just where the Prince thinks covert funding should be directed.

floopmeister, that's because they are confusing them with R2D2, the morning-after robot. (Just lay back and enjoy! Light dusting, no extra charge.)

What difference does it make if Iran is sending this stuff in? Don't they have a greater right to effect the outcome of a war right on their border than the U.S. does to attack a country half a world away?

We must be the biggest bunch of hypcrites out there. American arms are flooding and destabalizing countries the world over. Whatever gets into Iraq is returned Karma for the part we've played in messing up the world over the last century.

What if the missing HMX came from

Holston Army Ammunition Plant in Kingsport, Tennessee.?

Maybe that's why our DoD let the "enemy" loot the stuff in 2003.

The seals on the drums clearly indicated that this stuff was nasty. But what about it's origin?

We DID sell stuff to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War.

I bet we are seeing our soldiers die by explosives that were made in, no not Iran, but the good 'ol USA.

Kinda sucks doesn't it?

Look how hard folks are trying to pin the IEDs etc on hostile countries.

This story never quite sunk into the dolts who voted for GWB in 2004.

As they say.. You reap what you sow.

Now ain't that an explosive topic?

The Bush administration gave up one of the central tenets of its Middle East strategy yesterday, reversing its much criticised effort to isolate Iran and Syria by inviting both states to negotiations on stabilising Iraq.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2023016,00.html

[Maj. Martin Weber] said that technical expertise was required to cut, stamp and mill the copper plates, as well as to arm and trigger the EFPs.

OMG! Iran has machinists of mass production! This is actually one of those situations where Maj. Weber realizes that he can take advantage of the upper middle class naivete of the media, here. Few journalists have been exposed to vo-tech classes and thus will likely be impressed by the claim that Iran has access to milling machines and tool & die facilities-- just like every other country that made it into the industrial age.

To build on James of DC's comments, and to address Kevin's:

I dunno. I can be pretty easily convinced that Iran -- or some faction in Iran -- is helping out one or more of the factions in Iraq.

Certainly a better, easier case can be made that the Saudis are "helping out" the Sunnis in Iraq. Should we invade there? Saber rattle? Beat up on their leaders (that are far more autocratic than Iran's)?

James is right. We're the biggest bunch of irony-blind hypocrites the world may have ever seen.

I think we should invade Iran, because don't they know how expensive copper is these days? And they waste it on bombs??? WTF??? KILL ALL IRANIANS NOW!!!!

How long before the Bush administration draws up plans to bomb factories in Missouri that are making bomb parts used to kill American soldiers in Iraq?

380 tons missing.

1 ton = 2,000lbs

1lb. = death of an airplane (over Scotland)

You figure out how much HMX/RDX went missing from ONE site during the initial looter's bonanza right after Shock and Awe.

How on earth can we get this stable white powder (B4 it is plasticized into stuff like C-4) all rounded up into the right hands in Iraq?

We can't.

Why do you think it's the preferred explosive to detonate nuclear warheads? IT'S STABLE.

Folks, this is no laughing matter.

The "war" in Iraq is a nightmare of our own making. We supplied Iraq (along with the Brits) with much of the stuff that is NOW KILLING OUR TROOPS.

Is that what you call blowback?

The materials required to make these are so common that it is silly to even worry where they came from. PVC tubing, copper sheet, garage door sensors? Pretty normal stuff. The C-4 is harder to get, but it could come from anywhere. Every country with an army makes the stuff. The only thing tricky about the EFP is the design itself. But the basic design originated prior to World War II, so it could come from anywhere as well. It's tough to keep a lid on information. But there is one ingredient that I haven't mentioned that is hard for some people to come by: money. It takes money to buy all this stuff. My guess is the money comes from Saudi Arabia. Maybe we should ask Prince Bandar about that.

"After the invasion, when widespread looting began in Iraq, the international weapons experts grew concerned that the Qaqaa stockpile could fall into unfriendly hands. In May, an internal I.A.E.A. memorandum warned that terrorists might be helping "themselves to the greatest explosives bonanza in history." (NYT 10/04)

Oh, please. Al Kaka? As in, Al Poop? The talking heads on the news can't even pronounce that shit without breaking character by laughing out loud. It's like a Dickens novel written by monkeys. Monkeys wearing diapers.

Ah, Kevin.

Cherry picking your news stories again, eh, Kevin?

Is there something that gives the NTY story more credibility than the LAT story?

No, there's not, and it's your mendacity to imply there's some sort of equality between the two news stories when you have zero proof that that is not the case. No one has the proof, yet your conflation of the two stories is intended to give that impression.

Oh, please. Al Kaka? As in, Al Poop? The talking heads on the news can't even pronounce that shit without breaking character by laughing out loud.

Are you really saying that because of the funny sounding name the reports of large quantities of explosives can’t be true?

I think that pie may be one of the best foods we have.

yes Al, we know.

I have the impression that when the Republicans finally leave office they will have left so many weird irons in the fire that will not be pertinent to anything in the US interest that most will simply be dropped, if understood to exist at all. However there will be so many people in foreign governments throughout the world whose careers have come to depend on these oddities that they will have nowhere to turn for support except the Republican establishment who recognize them among the corporate internationalist crowd.

The whole entire exercise is modelled on the way Standard Oil and the United Fruit Company cultivated influence in Latin America.

Remember when our President joked about looking for the WMDs from Iraq under his desk in the whitehouse?

What if we MADE SURE none were found because the components were of US origin AKA Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq in 1984.

We go to war.

It's no laughing matter.

Our president jokes about WMDs.

And folks today think the missing HMX is funny because they can't pronounce the name of the facility which our own DoD left unsecured while looters walked away with the shit that is NOW killing our troops.

Last time I checked, the Iraqis are not laughing.

Neither am I.

Nor is Peter Woodruff.

I mean Bob Woodruff.

I hope he continues to heal from his US-(insurgent assembled) made HMX explosive packed IED while in Iraq.

Crikey...

You can't tell where ANYTHING gets manufactured these days.

Consider for example... Mary Cheney's baby.

Whose the daddy?
God doesn't even know.

cld: I have the impression that when the Republicans finally leave office they will have left so many weird irons in the fire...

Cynically, I have yet to find any difference between the R's & the D's. Both are tied to foreign oil, to international corporations, and to AIPAC. Both are authoritarian.

The D's didn't win in '06 -- the R's lost. Neither one has a grasp on reality. God knows who I'm gonna support in '08.

"Few journalists have been exposed to vo-tech classes and thus will likely be impressed by the claim that Iran has access to milling machines and tool & die facilities..."

I went to a birthday party for an aquaintence last week, the guy had a milling machine in his basement! It was about as big as a washing machine (smaller ones exist), probably cost $10k or less. He uses it to build electronic equipment (eg audiophile stereo system components).

How bold and intrusive: to meddle in our meddling!

I can be pretty easily convinced

you don't say.

"I went to a birthday party for an aquaintence last week, the guy had a milling machine in his basement! It was about as big as a washing machine (smaller ones exist), probably cost $10k or less. He uses it to build electronic equipment (eg audiophile stereo system components)."

Yes, milling mackines are indeed very common. So are stamping presses. You can make one from a car jack. And we have photographic evidence that these rudimentary machines exist in Iraq. Whenever you see pictures of Baghdad, you'll notice that they have cars that move. In the trunks of some the cars are car jacks. The fact that the cars run means they have auto repair shops. And many auto repair jobs require a milling machine. So they definitely have the equipment they need. It is impossible to prevent any society that has automobiles from making an EFP with equipment they already have and materials that are readily available. But we have to blame Iran for something, so I guess this is it. We could also blame Iran for the fact that some of the air that the insurgents breathe has drifted in from Iran. That would be only slightly sillier.

We left many other ammunition depots in Iraq unguarded, not just al-Qaqaa: the total amount of high explosives loose in Iraq was thousands of times bigger than those 380 tons. Thousands.
Anyone who thinks that Al-Qaqaa is important is innumerate and therefore clueless. Of course, anyone who thought that Iraq was up to running an invisible Manhattan project on a trickle of money
with local talent was also clueless - that list included the overwhelming majority of people in public life.

Fucking clueless.

While the White House seems to have backed off its Get Iran talk and may at last be on track with the Baker Commission's recommendations on talks with Syria and Iran on Iraq, some loose ends remain and it would be interesting to see them tied up.

For instance, the apparent clash at the highest levels of the Pentagon with the military field report from Iraq that tied weapons allegedly found in Iraq directly to Iran. Both Secretary Gates and General Pace were almost immediately dismissive of the field report.

Then there are Secretary Gates statements on reports of plans for attack and/or invasion of Iran. Gates plainly stated and somewhat irritably in one instance that no planning was taking place -- note the word "planning." Yet almost immediately afterwards reports surfaced that indeed planning was taking place. And reports have been consistent for many months that planning was taking place at the Pentagon for an attack and/or invasion of Iran.

It would be helpful if someone would inquire -- perhaps along the lines of "Who is in charge at the Pentagon?" Or, "Is anyone in charge at the Pentagon?"

What you'll never hear at a White House press conference:

"So to sum up:

The weapons found in Iraq have come from everywhere BUT Iran - including Austria - but mostly from the U.S; no Iranian soldiers or agents have ever been found helping the insurgents; and now it turns out the IED's are being manufactured by the Iraqis right inside of their own country.

So how exactly is Iran meddling in Iraq again again Mr. President? And what are we to make of your administration's many assertions to the contrary that have been proffered without evidence or with false and misleading evidence?

Do you agree with your critics that you should resign your office for shamelessly lying to the American people on serious matters of state a second time when the first had such disastrous results for both our nation and the Iraqi people?

Mr. President? Mr. President?"

"And reports have been consistent for many months that planning was taking place at the Pentagon for an attack and/or invasion of Iran."

Planning? That would be new and different. I think you probably just mean plotting. And that worked out well for Lady McBeth, dinnit?

Seymour Hersh just finished on "As it happens", NPR/CBC. Seemed to make a lot of sense to me.

Just got back from "Iraq in Fragments" which I recommend to anyone willing to read quite a lot of subtitles, appreciate that Aarabs are humans, like us, and, despite being Muslim towel-heads, might just want to get on with their own lives, same as us.

Oh, and they don't seem to trust Bush and his troops much for being there for their benefit.

The film revolves around 3 young Iraqis: one in Baghdad, one they accompany down to Nasirya --Sadr and all that -- then the last in a Kurdistan village. The Baghdad and southern Iraq material is filmed from April '03 to September '04, then Kurdistan from Sep '04 thru spring '05. All very interesting. It's a different way of life.

Pretty depressing, disappointing, embarassing.

Kevin, it sounds like you are willing to believe GWB and Cheney's spin. Of course, people in Iran are helping people in Iraq to attack Americans. People in Saudi Arabia are helping people in Iraq kill Americans.
If we attacked every country that has people that want to kill Americans, where do we start? Sri Lanka. Oh, that was anti government rebels.
Are you going to support GWB, when he starts a second war of choice?

"...I have the impression that when the Republicans finally leave office they will have left so many weird irons in the fire that will not be pertinent to anything in the US interest that most will simply be dropped, if understood to exist at all..."

Posted by: cld on February 27, 2007 at 10:04 PM

Somehow, a comparison between "weird irons in the fire" and "the better angels of our nature" will be in a future SAT exam that contrasts the styles and competencies of those two administrations.

UAE huh? Any of those manifests stamped "Dubai Ports World"?

45 Day Review my left nut.

Just got back from "Iraq in Fragments" which I recommend . . .
Posted by: notthere on February 27, 2007 at 11:52 PM | PERMALINK

I recommend a film, I think it was from 1988, called The Beast.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094716/

It was about a Russian tank crew that gets lost in Afghanistan, and ends up playing can-and-mouse with a group of muhajadin in a dead-end canyon.

The movie talks about an Afghan (Pashtun, actually) concept called Nanawatai - where a man is obliged, by honor, to provide shelter and comfort, to anyone who asks for this mercy. Failure to do so is considered a black mark on one's honor. Even if the person asking is an enemy.

It explains why the Taliban may have been so reluctant to give up bin Laden after 9/11, even though the Taliban may not have agreed with his beliefs and methods. They could not have afforded to lose face in that culture.

Awesome movie. Excellent photography. I wish I could find a DVD copy.

Anyone who thinks that Al-Qaqaa is important is innumerate and therefore clueless. ...
Posted by: gcochran9 on February 27, 2007 at 11:01 PM | PERMALINK

Al Qaqaa IS important, because it's the most well-known example of Rumsfeld's PROVEN homocidal negligence. The Al Qaqaa explosives are but a tiny fraction of the total amount we set loose in that country with our stupidity and arrogance. But we don't have much in the way of documented evidence - it exists, I'm sure, but it's not all over the press like Al Qaqaa was.

Extradite Rumsfeld:

No problem, don't think you were trying:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800033183/buyvideo

Don't remember it being called nanawatai, but there was a similar idea mentioned in "Kite Runner" among the Pashtun where (I think) if you apologize and kill a sheep you have to be forgiven. Lots of honor and pride on both sides. Interesting.

Bombing the sheep and then dropping leaflets ain't gonna cut it. But that's what these guys call diplomacy. (Sheep diplomacy?)

The pseudo-intelligence crew should make up their minds -- are Iraqis people who can build missiles and nuclear weapons, or people who can't make plastic tubes and copper disks?

[Maj. Martin Weber] said that technical expertise was required to cut, stamp and mill the copper plates, as well as to arm and trigger the EFPs.

You know, it's an odd thing, but I seem to recall that in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, we were frequently told that Iraq had this massive capacity to make weapons of mass destruction, and/or if they didn't, well they were ready to go full speed ahead on rebuilding that capacity if we didn't stop them.

So here we are a few years later, and umpteen thousand deaths down the road. All of a sudden we're being told Iraq couldn't possibly have the resources and people to make these sophisticated IEDs, that they have to be shipped in from elsewhere. Odd, isn't it? What happened to all of that weaponeering expertise we were being threatened by?

Did it just evaporate overnight, were we lied to then, are we being lied to now, or have the lies never stopped - they've just been updated? The short answer is "Yes".

"technical expertise was required to cut, stamp and mill the copper plates"

And the Iraqis have had that technical expertise since about the 18th Century BCE. Hell, manufactured copper tools pre-date history--that stone-age man found frozen in the Alps a few years ago had a copper ax with him. Why do they insult our intelligence with this drivel?

Well get Mike Hammer's ass to Iraq and figure this shit out.

Man, I wish...Spillane (RIP) is one of my guilty pleasures, and Hammer would have the whole damn country sorted out in no time flat.

I can be pretty easily convinced that Iran -- or some faction in Iran -- is helping out one or more of the factions in Iraq, but it's going to take more than this.

Of course Iran or some faction in Iran is helping out one or more of the factions in Iraq. It would be incredible, frankly, if the Iranian Shiites were not helping their allies and co-religionists.

But that merely raises the question of so what? Of course Iran is involved in Iraq, as is Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, the Gulf States, Israel, and pretty much anyone with a stake in how the war turns out, which is pretty much everyone in the region.

It's bizarre -- though, of course, quite politically calculated by the Bush regime -- to raise so much fuss about how Iran is arming people who are, after all, our supposed allies (the Shiite goverment) while turning a blind eye to how our other supposed allies (the Saudis) are arming people who are our enemies (the Sunni insurgents).

Iran will be another junior of awol and shooter cluster fuck and the MSM will pound the wardrums of the cooked intel and we the bloggers of the world will sit at our keyboards and bitch and moan, and the gutless, spineless, leaderless democrats will nod their puppet heads up and down, while 8 power necons send this country into another abyss. cleve

Maybe the C4 walked out of a Halliburton warehouse. After all pay your flunkies peanuts and they supplement their meager pay with your inventory.

Gee, a major in Bush's Army exaggerates intelligence to fit a prescribed conclusion handed down from the top pharisee, Dick Cheney.

Shocking.

Has anyone explained why the EFP material and mortar shells shown to reporters have English markings? Last I heard, Iran was not an English speaking country.

Can you say "Nigerian yellowcake"?

It explains why the Taliban may have been so reluctant to give up bin Laden after 9/11, even though the Taliban may not have agreed with his beliefs and methods. They could not have afforded to lose face in that culture.

Posted by: Extradite Rumsfeld on February 28, 2007 at 1:50 AM | PERMALINK

So not extraditing mass murderers, condemmed even by Arab states to save face is something you have to put up with to be tolerant?

Has anyone explained why the EFP material and mortar shells shown to reporters have English markings? Last I heard, Iran was not an English speaking country.

Posted by: zak822 on February 28, 2007 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

Mainly because English is the language of engineering.

------------
And the Iraqis have had that technical expertise since about the 18th Century BCE. Hell, manufactured copper tools pre-date history--that stone-age man found frozen in the Alps a few years ago had a copper ax with him. Why do they insult our intelligence with this drivel?

Posted by: rea on February 28, 2007 at 7:59 AM | PERMALINK

Shaping copper is easy but getting it to the right shape so explosive forms it into a specific armor piercing shape is hard. But no one, wanted to insult your intelligence but assuming you'd read around a little bit.

Mainly because English is the language of engineering.

You must have no self-respect whatsoever to put forward a ridiculous answer like that.

Shaping copper is easy but getting it to the right shape so explosive forms it into a specific armor piercing shape is hard.

Bzzzt! Wrong again.

So political theater is all you got, eh? Figures.

McAnustotle: Shaping copper is easy but getting it to the right shape so explosive forms it into a specific armor piercing shape is hard.

Maybe that's why not all the EFPs are effective?

Wouldn't they all be effective if they were made with extreme precision?

And is Iran the only country in the entire world that can machine copper with extreme precision?

Hardly.

Conservative logic at work: the US can machine copper with extreme precision - therefore, the Bush administration must be supplying the insurgents with the EFPs. After all, the Bush administration has motive and access, to both the technology and the war zone - in fact, better technology and better access than Iran, as well as better motives.

McAnustotle: So not extraditing mass murderers, condemmed even by Arab states to save face is something you have to put up with to be tolerant?

Providing an explanation for someone's motivations is not expressing an opinion about whether that someone's motives should be tolerated.

Conservatives have a very hard time distinguishing between explanations and statements of agreement or approval.

Or else they are deliberately conflating the two because they are inveterate liars.

Both work for me.

BTW, the US would likely not extradicte the mass-murdering Bush, who is as equally culpable for the innocent deaths and maiming inflicted by US forces, as bin Laden is for those inflicted by his servants, just to save face.

Indeed, Bush continues to promulgate an unsuccessful, unpopular, and unwinnable war that will achieve none of the major goals envisioned and will not increase American security one iota, but instead harm it, merely in order to save face for himself, first, for the GOP (including Senator Liarman), second, and allegedly for America, last.

McAnustotle: So not extraditing mass murderers, condemmed even by Arab states to save face is something you have to put up with to be tolerant?

BTW, didn't the US oppose Pinochet's extradition to save face because of past (conservative) support for his brutal regime?

Should other nations have been intolerant of the US's refusal to support Pinochet's extradition?

How about the US's refusal to extradite the mass-murdering Sánchez de Lozada to Bolivia?

(Both the Clinton and the Bush 41 administrations deserve condemnation for opposing Pinochet's extradition, although Clinton at least had the excuse that it would be promoted by the GOP as a partisan attack on Bush 41, due to the latter's involvement in Pinochet's crimes, at least as an accessory after-the-fact, if not an accomplice; I suspect that Bush 43 also opposed the extradition, but cannot find confirmation.)