Josh!!

"We the people..." are really gonna "owe" Josh and friends.

"...Ambition must be made to counteract ambition..." - FEDERALIST No. 51

Yep - Josh and his small crew are showing the way. They deserve the current accolades, but they have been doing yoeman work for some time!

We all want to be Josh when we grow up.

Josh rocks!

Maybe it's just late, but I wonder when they'll write a feature piece on blogs that doesn't expend a big chunk of text trying to explain what a blog is. I know, I know, they're trying to explain where Josh fits in.

daCascadian, there's a Copeland quote in the article you can add to your list. "A newspaper is a boat . . ."

Josh is great. We just have to make sure his current success doesn't go to his head.

Actually, he is proving that you don't need a printing press to do real journalism. Way to go Josh.

Now what is the next great story. Maybe Globe can find it and she can catch the wave with one of her new blog creations.

TPM, Atrios, and Kos get a lot of press (and eyeballs) because they serve a lot of red meat, and get involved in activism of one sort or another.

Most of the articles about "bloggers" miss the more quietly thoughtful bloggers (like Kevin and Yglesias). And yet that's where the more interesting blogging is taking place.

One step at a time . . . fundraising . . .muckraking . . . journalism(iness?). . . breaking out of the liberal elite echo chamber .. .

Maybe we'll eventually get a dem in the White House so the thoughtful policy bloggers can have an impact too and stop feeling so morose.

Just to be clear: for those of us who get our LA Times the old-fashioned way, as I sit here at 11:40 PM PDT on Friday, the story was not in the Friday paper.

I assume it will be the "Column One" story in the Saturday (the 17th - Happy St. Pat's Day) edition that wlll arrive at my doorstep is five or six hours.

B >"...daCascadian, there's a Copeland quote in the article you can add to your list..."

Yes, I read that. Right up there with the following one.

"..."We've only had subpoena power for the last six weeks and every tree that we've barked up so far has had a cat in it...Imagine where we'll be after six months." - a senior Democrat

Talking Points was one of the first blogs I discovered and for as much as I have a soft spot for it, it is the Muckraker arm of Marshall's empire that is my first stop every day. The work being done by Josh and his small crew is nothing short of remarkable. Hats off to Josh. Nice piece from the Times.

And to think it all started at a 500-watt radio in Fresno, California.

TPM really started to take off when Marshall switched over to a Mac. (True, actually) Levity aside, the deeper story is something that Kevin has been covering even longer, namely that the giant corporate media are surprisingly unaggressive about stories that are inherently interesting but embarrassing to the Republicans. What's interesting about this story, the element that even Marshall hasn't gone to yet, is the question of what the administration is trying to cover up in the San Diego story. Was the former AG going to go after congressman lewis? That is where it seemed to be going, but nothing really tangible has come out so far, and with this coverup, it probably won't unless the news media do the heavy lifting.

Well, punishing Lam was probably enough, and if they could halt progress against Jerry "The Nutty Congressman" Lewis, so much the better. Rove and Grover know best how tied in these clowns are to whole K Street gang. Certainly, its beyond Bush's comprehension—but well within Cheney's "due".

Does anyone else remember how mild-mannered Josh was back when TPM first fired up?

I don't see Gonzo's head over the mantlepiece yet.

Maybe you have to squint?

Truth be told this TPM site became unvital to look at some time ago as its politics were boring as batshit. ( Better than the Political pussy here but still repellent...and this place has comments)

Maybe for Party brownnosers will check it everyday...the rest of the Snarkosphere will rely on drones to track it for us. Two words - Google alerts.

Goodnight and goodhunting.

Kevin,

You and Josh Marshall are two of the very best.

One thing that TPM can do is to report a fact and say to its readers "This is interesting; is there more here? Does anyone know?"

The MSM's conventions simply don't allow for that kind of in-process reporting.

"Here there is mainly quiet, except for the clacking keyboards."

keyboards only clack in the movies, maybe the dog needs its toenails trimmed. I bet they aren't using black monitors with quarter inch green characters either.

How does this set-up compare to the Drum media empire? More cats?

Sounds like a non-union sweat shop.

hmmmm, a toy poodle eh? I don't remember any pictures and the only references I can remember concerned Blair.

Somebody send Josh a toy poodle helmet cam so he can stop being embarassed of the beast and blog Simon the way God intended.

I love the quickness of the message, commentary in real time, ease of being able to construct a timeline for anything in question by a simple click. And corruption, obstruction of power, and abuse of power can be readily exposed with our nimble fingers.
This is a good time to thank Kevin for his work and for providing the comments board.

Josh is a professional journalist. So are his reporters. (So is Kevin for that matter.)

What would be really interesting would be for one or more than one of them to post some training tips for citizen journalists. Instead of being an echo chamber we might also become the eyes and ears of a broad citizen journalistic enterprise.

What say you Kevin?

I think it's insulting to compare TPM to a "blog," they are more like a news organization than anything else.

This article comes down to the real problem of the MSM, it's not blogs have more resources, or blog writers are smarter, but bloggers respect their readers.

TPM will ask it's readers for help, the same work can be done by one or two full-time researchers/unpaid interns.

The difference boils down to TPM respects their readers, they think "This is interesting, this is important, our readers would like it..." While the MSM will say, "...our readers won't understand it..."

Congrats to Josh and his "blog empire." Fully deserving of the recognition via the LAT article and more. Props to them all for doing the heavy-lifting that the traditional press don't do.

Props to you as well, Kevin.

3 three cheers for the musketeers! Josh, Kevin, and Steve. 3 cheers for the commenteers! It takes a village to bring down a tyrant.

An editor (not wacko, news--a huuuge difference) at the wall st journal told me about josh's blog a few years ago, and since then have been a multi-daily fan. My daily fix is kevin for deliberative posts on policy and feline life; americablog for outrage; and josh for researching important stories the msm will pick up in the following weeks and months. I am so happy that a smart reporter at the la times wrote this, the best summation that i have seen about blogs. Last night's idiotic echo chamber between gregory and brownstein on hardball puts into perspective the difference between glamour boys and real journalism; the tv guys seem to be so busy having their hair done that they only have time for one talking point they've heard during the day, while josh and kevin have myriad sources and experts weighing in. Let's just hope josh doesn't end up shaving his head or moving to the bahamas. you guys are exactly what democracy needs, and god bless you.

I saw that John Marshall guy on Countdown.
Looks like a dirty f*cking hippie to me.

Admit it Kevin. Your unwillingness to be interviewed by Hugh Hewitt proves your contempt for "Americans of all classes and backgrounds." Admit it!

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/e683ed30-dc14-4108-82d5-4bc31d38199a

Militias in Iraq have graduated to chlorine gas bombs.

TPM is great but there are still very good traditional media journalists getting their stuff published. I'd like to particularly give thanks to McClatchy's Washington Bureau. The Washington Post and New York Times are good, but not nearly as good as they ought to be. Still, they beat the Washington Times and the New York Post which seem completely unwilling to embarrass the White House.

I used to enjoy watching Josh on Al Franken's show when it was broadcast on cable tv.
TalkingPointsMemo is a very classy site.

His readers make great comments--this one, for example, and his blogsite.
"The firings of US attorney Carol C. Lam and Daniel Bogden were connected through one case that just so happened to be the first time the Patriot Act was used in a non-terrorism related case.
The investigation, and the subsequently comprehensive search for financial records ended up getting Sheldon Adelson, the 6th richest man in the world and fervent Bush supporter, involved by highlighting $190,000 of contributions he gave to the now convicted ex-County Commissioner and Lobbyist Lance Malone.
It is a highly complicated case that demonstrates that Mark Corallo, who has worked as spokesman for both Karl Rove and Attorney General Gonzales, and also at the Republican National Committee was most likely the go-between to help spur these firings on behalf of Sheldon Adelson." http://misterapologist.blogspot.com/2007/03/bogden-lam-gonzales-rove-corallo.html

Militias in Iraq have graduated to chlorine gas bombs.

Not to turn this into a General Chem lecture, and glaze everyones eyes over on a Saturday morning, but...It's worse than chlorine. They started that over a month ago. They are now using fluorine. Fluorine is the most reactive and electronegative element on the periodic table. Yes, it causes severe chemical burns like any halogen, but F2 is used in rat poisons because it contributes to systemic hemorrhagic response. It's univalent, has a high electronegativity and a small atomic radius, it has bonding properties with Carbon that can be disastrous to living tissue.

It is also much more difficult to work with, indicating a sophistication of technique that has heretofore been thought beyond the capabilities of the insurgent fighters.

"keyboards only clack in the movies"

You haven't heard my daughter at midnight banging away at her livejournal.

What's sad about all of this is that Josh and his crew are really just practicing old-fashioned journalism, with just one slight twist -- input from readers. All of the data that Josh had was also available to all of the mainstream media types but they all passed on this story, with Time's Washington Bureau Chief, Jay Carney, openly mocking TPM. That he later apologized doesn't change the fact that this was a story that he, and the magazine he works for, could have, and should have, been all over this story from the very beginning.

I'm glad to see some of the comments giving props to Kevin as well as Josh and others.

Calpundit and Kevin's subsequent work with Washington Monthly have each played a significant role.

Josh has recently pushed the ball over into a new court. His success is a welcome development.

The whole thing sounds fishy to me. There's not a single word about blogs in the Bible.

Someone should start a blog chronicling the pathetic stream of stupidity coming from The Corner.

Right now they are engaged in an orgy of Plame bashing to save their masters' asses. It's fun to see their heads explode over this.

I think this is the first time I haven't seen a bunch of name calling & downright idiocy on this site, or blog, or whatever the breed of "cat". Thank you all for insightful comments.

I found Kevin's & others' blogs on the Yahoo RSS list, or links to these, & have been grateful ever since. I have not been a fan of the MsM for a long time now, precisely for the reasons stated in the LA Times article. I may gain initial knowledge of a story from the MsM websites, but it is the blogs that give me insight beyond the "headlines" & others' views that help shape my own.

I thank you, Kevin, and all the other bloggers out there for what you do for us.

I want to pop in with a Public Service Announcement because I know we have a lot of readers in the Kansas City area - there is a Peace Rally at Penn Valley tomorrow, on the 4th anniversary of the start of the war. Details and directions are in the link.

My first two must-read blogs some years ago were TPM and Calpundit.

Josh shows what hard work, talent, and some real imagination can produce.

The blogosphere is wonderful. Sure, there's some real crap out there, but also some real diamonds to find. It's taken me a few years to build my bookmark list, but man, it's one of the real treasures of my life. Can't imagine going a day without checking in with each and every site on my list.

I quit watching or reading MSM news in the run-up to Iraq. I've gone back now to watching Hardball and Countdown, and of course the Daily Show!, but still avoid like the plague Sunday morning news shows or evening network news. They can't give an unequivocal answer to anything! If I hear one more newsperson say that Clinton also 'fired' US attorneys when he took office I'm going to finally smash the TV. This is simply not a complicated point to understand or communicate to the American people. All Presidents appoint new USAs when they take office. It is quite unusual, however, for a President to fire USAs during their term of office unless criminal acts or grave misconduct have occured. It's not leaning too far left to make that point clearly, is it?

So, yes, many thanks to Josh and crew (for great investigative reporting and timely updates on what's 'really' going on) and to Kevin and others for interesting and valuable blogging on important topics and issues that deserve our attention as well as a forum for us to hash everything over and vent enough to stay sane in this increasingly complicated and absurd political environment.

I hope someone soon shows the similarities with the current delay of the white house in producing documents regarding the firing of the attorneys. This stonewalling/dragging their feet occurred at length back when as the CIA leak was questioned. Recall we were upset with the delay.
What are they doing this weekend to obstruct justice? Shredding documents? Concocting a story? Drinking heavily? Plotting further abuse of power? Luckily Senator Leahy, who has paved the way for subpoenas, is on the Sunday Talk Circuit tomorrow.

from thenexthurrah.com--in '05, I believe:
"First, Alberto Gonzales and DOJ several times stall the flow of evidence. It takes four days between the time the investigation started and the time Gonzales announces it officially to the WH. Then, Gonzales waits 11 hours between the time he sends a general email alerting WH personnel of the investigation and the time he sends an email detailing the specific kinds of evidence that should be saved.

Interestingly, it took 4 days after that "official"launch for the Justice Department to call White House Counsel Gonzales and notify him of the official investigation. Gonzalez then asked for an extra day before the Justice Department gave the White House the official notice, which means all documents and records must be preserved.

Then, Gonzales holds the evidence for two weeks to "review it for relevancy." In other words, after the WH seems to have "fixed" its story with Bob Novak, it buys time before it turned over evidence...."

Dems be aware!

The manner in which the the US Attorney story has unfolded has been pretty revealing of the significance of both blogs and the MSM.

As was pointed out in the LA Times article, it's certainly true that TalkingPointsMemo had, as a blog, a peculiar advantage in breaking the story: it could solicit input from its readers and aggregate that information into a larger picture in a way not readily possible for a MSM news organization.

But what is disturbing is how reluctant or inept most of the MSM clearly were when it came to pursuing the story once it achieved prominence and plausiblity. The intial dismissive comment from the Time Magazine editor was a paradigm expression of that.

I will say that at a certain point I myself thought that it was probably not going to get much traction, because I believed that the Bush WH would be able to stonewall, and simply pretend that no bad motivations could lie behind the firings.

What took me by surprise was the various "document dumps" of emails related to the case, which blew away the attempts at stonewalling.

Now, it's probably OK that I wouldn't have expected that such a document dump would take place, because I simply don't know enough about the machinery of government and Congressional subpoenas to realize that such documents would likely, in the end, have to become part of the record. But had I known that such a thing might be probable under the governance of a Democratic Congress, I would certainly have expected that some VERY damaging material would transpire.

The question in my mind is, why didn't the political reporters at such places as Time Magazine not realize this as well? Did they truly think that the dumps would NOT have to take place, or that, if they did, they wouldn't be quite devastating to the Bush WH? Why wouldn't they have realized that it would be important for them, as journalists, to do everything they could do to make the document dumps as likely as possible?

In short, I can't see how there's any other explanation for the behavior of the vast majority of the MSM on this huge story other than incompetence, laziness, smugness, and/or simple cowardice.

Once it became clear that there was something seriously afoul in the firings of the US Attorneys, any journalist with real instincts and a spine to hold them up should have been all over this story. But they had "other priorities", it seems.

It's hard not to feel real contempt for them as a class.

Kevin and Josh,

Hats off to the two of you.

I do hope you realize that REVENGE is on the way. The dolts in our administration have you in their cross-hairs.

It's not okay to show how the buscheyneites have misuderestimated the significance of upholding and defending the US Constitution.

To them I say: We're the deciders (we the people that is.)

I suggest mirror site aplenty in the event of hackster activity.

I do hope you realize that REVENGE is on the way. The dolts in our administration have you in their cross-hairs.

I do think that the Karl Rove’s of the world will eventually try to “set-up� the left of center blogs and try to make them look foolish. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have tried already and I just don’t know about it.

How about it Kevin? Has anybody tried to set you up?

The LATimes article correctly describes TPM as "opinion journalism." Most blogs are opinion with no journalism, or collections of headlines and links. What distinguishes TPM is actual reporting. It's very much in the tradition of I.F. Stone, who actually reported by actually reading the public record and not depending on "access" and "sources," which make reporters lazy and corrupt.

I'm vaguely reminded of RobertHilburn writing about how {TomPetty, BruceSpringsteen, GangstaRap} was going to shake up the music establishment, including the "explaining" part. In fact, I wrote a satire about something similar.

I eagerly await the LAT discovering MichelleMalkin/TheCorner/FreeRepublic/me. I'm sure they'll lavish the same type and level of praise. No doubt, no doubt at all.

...I eagerly await the LAT discovering MichelleMalkin/TheCorner/FreeRepublic/me. I'm sure they'll lavish the same type and level of praise.... TLB at 2:49 PM

So I guess this means we can count on Time naming TPM Blog of the Year, right?

Gosh I hope not. I was so counting on following up my Person of the Year with Blogger of the Year. I already put fifty bucks on it...

I'm sure they'll lavish the same type and level of praise.

Should we infer from your deft use of sarcasm that you harbor some doubts? Of course, the decision to report on Josh Marshall's success story might possibly bear some relationship to the quality and popularity of his blog. And if so, then the appearance of this story manifestly has nothing whatsoever or in the tiniest measure to do with you and your small-minded, small-spirited and small-audienced blog.

Just a guess.

Blogosphere:

A lot of fat, dull young guys sitting at their computers in their underwear and tapping out inane comments under assumed names that no one gives a damn about -- just like the inane comments they make away from their computers and which no one, even their mothers, dismiss for the crap they are. Get a life? Naww. If these guys knew how to get a life they'd be out there getting one instead of pretending they had one. Pathetic losers! And since I have a life, I'll get back to it immediately and leave the pretenders to their fantasies of amounting to something that they are not.

jethrow:
Blogosphere: It is kind of fun thinking you are contributing to the genre as a citizen journalist, and it increases your own knowledge of a wide range of subjects. Reading the night before is known to improve public speaking the next day. There are lots of plusses!

obscure: LOL, thanks.

Shortly after posting that comment about the LAT, I posted about what another LAT story wasn't telling their readers.

I actually put JMM above people like Kevin Drum, and certainly miles above scum like Hatrios, and I don't begrudge his success. My problem is with the LAT's coverage, when I'm sure they would never write anything along those same lines about those who occasionally do a similar type of reporting (me for instance, except I don't have JMM's access nor do I have his ability to push a story) or those who occasionally engage in "community reporting" (freerepublic for instance).

tpm is my first stop on the web after this one. i do sometimes wish they allowed comments on the site proper, even though turds like...well, you all know who to show up.

kevin, you too are doing great work, and most of the commenters are pretty sharp, too. y'all have a belt or something on me.

your pal,
blake

6 guys huh? A boy's world.

So Josh is not an equal opportunity employer. I'm disappointed. How un-progressive of him.

Seriously.

Time Magazine similarly praised Josh Marshall:

March 13, 2007
Where Credit Is Due
Posted by Jay Carney
"Twelve days ago, after David Iglesias went public, I said that if there turned out to be a broad conspiracy behind the firing of the U.S. Attorneys, "I will take my hat off to Marshall and others in the blogosphere and congratulate them for having been right in their suspicions about this story from the beginning."

My hat is off. Josh Marshall at TalkingPointsMemo and everyone else out there whose instincts told them there was something deeply wrong and even sinister about the firings, and who dug around and kept writing about them while Iglesias decided whether to talk to the press or go quietly on to his next job, deserve tremendous credit.

When this story first surfaced, I thought the Bush White House and Justice Department were guilty of poorly executed acts of crass political patronage. I called some Democrats on the Hill; they were "concerned", but this was not a priority. The blogosphere was the engine on this story, pulling the Hill and the MSM along. As the document dump proves, what happened was much worse than I'd first thought. I was wrong. Very nice work, and thanks for holding my feet to the fire."
from Jay Carney

not to toot my own horn over the latimes, but i said much the same thing three days ago about specifically about the libby case and bloggers, and i mentioned my good blog buddy jeralyn merritt of this site.

as the premise of my piece was things to cheer about, i also included the work blogs got done on the backlash against ann coulter and the reversal of the nevada dems decision to let fox broadcast the reno debate.

whoops, sorry, jeralyn is not of this site. my mistake, bad cutting and pasting on my part.

however kevin does great work too, even tho i didn't mention him in my piece.

kids, don't drink and blogwhore. people can get hurt.

Skippy--I was watching The Daily News when Jon Stewart mentioned your blog.
Jon Stewart Sez: "When I want news, I turn to CNN...and they...turn...to Skippy...the Bush Kangaroo."

Re: emptywheel's origin, I had read where she said it came from her initials M.T.--so rather clever, I'd say.

Speaking of appearing on shows, Matt Stoller of MYDD.com will be on Cspan's Washington Journal in a matter of minutes.

Congratulations to Josh Marshall on starting something special - - a new way to get news.

This morning I tried watching Meet the Press – but it’s not news, but Faux News that just like cross-fire, nothing but a sharply partisan political bickering comic stand up, slap-stick waste of time, completely loses sight of real news, then I tried ABC’s This Week, and how Patrick Leahy is every bit as dumb as Mark Shield, as Senator John Crony (as in DeLay and Bush’s crony, always has been, always will be nothing a Cheney- GOP kiss-ass) that played Senator Leahy like a fiddle, made the fight all about campaign contributions instead the important issues, THUS the fact that Bush tried so hard to do away with congressional approval for his handpicked “go after Dems only� appointed malpractice, misuse of office legal team.

ABC's This Week With George Stephanopoulos sucks big time.

Will ABC every get Sam Donaldson back and maybe some real news any time soon?

Prospect don’t look good.

BUT to his credit Bob Schieffer on CBS’s “Face the Nation� is the real news lift on Sunday talk shows that even vaguely represent what news used to be and Schieffer, to his credit gives good editorials – unlike the Washington Post, on Bush team of early Alzheimer afflicted Whitehouse team.

Certainly, since you can’t get even a Washington Post editorial with even marginal facts straight instead of partisan mud feast against a Valeria Plame and her honest to God ruined career, it nice to know that real journalist with taste for the truth will survive on blogs because as we seen, real journalist is so completely frayed in National Journalism it is wroth the paper it printed on anymore.

The Washington Post editorial used to have some kind of principle for un-slanted news didn’t it, was that every a principle of major newspaper? But now see no reason for researched editorials and thus the editorial pages have become a dumping ground for partisan trash writing. It’s ashamed that some reporters actually risk their lives only to come home to garbage in their newspapers editorial pages.

Plame was covert, Plame didn’t recommend her husband for the job in Niger,

WHERE is the correction?

Blogs like Josh Marshall are future for journalist how like the true, value honesty. Marshall indeed has liberal prespective but indeed it's not half as partisan as the crap the nation gets from Washington Post editoral - that just make shit up - never bother to pick up a phone, ask questions before firing off a big lie of editoral based on completely factless assertions about Ms. Plames case.

sorry, I should have previewed.

Blogs like Josh Marshall are the future for journalism and for journalist that like the truth, that value honesty. Marshall indeed has some liberal prespective but heck, it's not half as partisan as the crap we've been getting from the pages of the Washington Post editoral section- where they just make shit up - never bothering to pick up a phone, never asking questions before firing off a BIG LIE of an editoral based on nothing but completely factless assertions about Ms. Plame's case.

John Murtha is a good interview on CNN with Wolf Blitzer. Says again the first step to dealing with this war is redeployment, and I agree with him that everything he predicted would happen came true. And there is no reason to think everything will worsen in Iraq if we redeploy troops.

We know the escalation of war by this administration is all about Bush's pride.

I agree that blogs present information in the best way and they certainly aren't rushing to commerical break. Murtha's segment was over in a flash to make room for Candy Crowley.

I think Josh needs to drop a few pounds.

But then again, so do I.