Most of the USAs got canned on Pearl Harbor Day. At least Alberto has a sense of history and humor!

I suspect the exchange server was down for those 18 days.

Who would have thought that they celebrate Diwali with such fervor.

Paging Rosemary Woods...

Oh, wait she died.

The original post:

From http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002809.php Posted by: Donp

The email of Nov 15 ends with “Who will determine if this requires the President’s attention” and Meiers says it will take a while as he is gone. The plan attached (page 15) to that says to begin making calls on Nov 15. Sampson had also recommended informing Karl.

The next email is dated Dec 4! From William Kelley at 4:48 pm it says: “We’re a go for the US atty plan. WH leg, political, and communications have signed off and acknowledged that we will have to be committed to following through once the pressure comes.”

There has to be some communication going on in this period if the legislative, political, and comm offices in the White House 'signed off and acknowledged' what was going on.

Eighteen days and eighteen minutes. Two corrupt administrations.

They voted to subpoena Rove and Miers.

Someone on msnbc said last night that the subpoena then gets sent to the local US Attorney who then decides whether to act on it, in this case one of the newly appointed attorneys.

Can that really be true, or did I misunderhear it?

According to Josh Marshall, that 3,000-page document dump doesn't include a single email between November 15th and December 4th of last year.

Kevin, I see you've never worked in the IT business before. Computers break down all the time. The most likely explanation is that the computers broke down for those several days and because of that backups couldn't be performed on computers during that time. Due to lack of backups, we can't recover the email for those dates between November 15th and December 4th. Quite a simple explanation really and certainly better than the conspiracy theory you propose.

I'm sure that gap is just an 'overblown I.T. matter'. :-)

Granted it will never happen but the simplest thing to do would be to remove the replacements, apologize to the fired USAs, put them back in their old positions, consult with Congress and submit the replacements to Senate confirmation. Congress gets back to its constitutional duties of advise & consent while the White House can spin a line of compromise while still getting what they want.

18 days. The internal WH and DOJ computer servers "broke down" for 18 days. So the backups couldn't be performed. Assuming they don't have back-ups for the back-ups.

Also, I've also heard that there are very few, if not any e-mails from Gonzolez in that document dump. I guess he just writes letters.....

It is apparent Al never (successfully) worked in the IT business.

Mail or backup servers being down for more than a few hours would be cause for a change of vendors.

Eighteen days, for a major government group? Yeah, Al, that's credible........... a real turkee serving for the rubes..... like you.

The Senate should subpoena the NSA for the backups of those emails.

You know they have them.

Um ... having worked in IT, I can PROMISE you that there is no way in holy hell the Exchange server(s) were down for 18 days. None. Zero. Zilch.

And I'm pretty confident that if my little company has an effective backup system (multiple backups, different media, in different locations), the government has the same.

Although, with the incompetence of this administration, maybe they put someone whose experience was in fast food in charge of IT functions, so ...

The most likely explanation is that the computers broke down for those several days and because of that backups couldn't be performed on computers during that time.

I don't buy this pathetic spin for a second. I looked at some of the documents from the dump and lots of emails were dent from PDA's. Were all the Crackberries down too?

He could publish something like that? Very interesting.

Folks any chance it was deliberate? Bush does not use email. Now does Gonzo.
i.e. people were told pecifically no emails or internal records re this issue?....

Yeah, a breakdown makes sense - PTSD - Posted Truth Stress Disorder

er, "nor" does Gonzo....

Also, I've also heard that there are very few, if not any e-mails from Gonzolez in that document dump. I guess he just writes letters.....

I have read that neither Gonzo nor GWB uses email, presumably for the same reason WJC and Newt only got BJs....

smeagle on March 21, 2007 at 12:02 PM:

I've also heard that there are very few, if not any e-mails from Gonzolez in that document dump. I guess he just writes letters...

None of the higher-ups in the White House seem to use email, or at least the government email system, to do the business of government. Here's a breakdown of who doesn't use 'the emails' at this link. One sample from the article:

5. Per a Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) letter to Henry Waxman calling for an investigation into "whether the White House has violated its mandatory record-keeping obligation under the Presidential Records Act (PRA)", we learned the following:

One email, sent to Justice Department Chief of Staff D. Kyle Sampson from J. Scott Jennings, White House Deputy Political Director, uses an email account, SJennings@gwb43.com, on a server owned by the Republican National Committee. This raises serious questions about whether the White House was trying to deliberately evade its responsibilities under the PRA, which directs the president to take all necessary steps to maintain presidential records to provide a full accounting of all activities during his tenure.

A number of other emails from Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove's former assistant Susan Ralston to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff document Ms. Ralston's use of three outside domains: rnchq.com (used for the headquarters of the Republican National Committee), georgebush.com and aol.com. In many of these emails Ms. Ralston is communicating inside White House information to Mr. Abramoff in response to Mr. Abramoff's efforts to broker deals for his clients and place specified individuals in positions within the administration.

CREW has learned that to fulfill its statutory obligations under the PRA, the White House email system automatically copies all messages created by staff and sends them to the White House Office of Records Management for archiving. It appears that the White House deliberately bypassed the automatic archiving function of its own email system that was designed to ensure compliance with the PRA.

So either those eighteen days' worth of documents were removed from the document dump, or the White House is violating Presidential Records Act in trying to bypass the communications retention system.

The IT people are also hired and fired based on party loyalty.

Al, I sure as hell hope that we find out someday soon that you have published a book with the title "How I pretended to be a right-wing troll on a left-of-center blog" or something like that. I can not believe that someone who actually has the IQ to be able to turn on a computer and type could be so naive and ignorant as to spew the crap that you spew here on a daily basis.

Eighteen days for a server to be down!! Are you kidding me?!?!? You don't really believe this, do you?

Eighteen days and eighteen minutes:

"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce." Karl Marx

This is a first for me. I'll back up Al on this. What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the IT vendor is probably a Republican campaign donor with no computer experience. The only qualifications this vendor has is being being the president of the College Repuplicans at his local community college and his total devotion to George Bush. In short, this person has Al's qualifications. You would expect complete incompetence from such a vendor. So missing 18 days of data would seem reasonable. It wouldn't fly in the real world, but this is Bush-land.

A long Thanksgiving break?

grape, thx for the link. that really explains it all, doesn't it?

Not unprecedented in my experience...I've worked with people expecting legal proceedings that simply stopped sending any emails on a given subject. All communication verbal. It does happen.

Did you "feel" the anger in our Emperor's voice at yesterday's presser?
He was positively incandescent.

To paraphrase:
"I can fire anyone I want. I can hire anyone I want. And if you don't like it: TOUGH!"

Remember:

As a Princeling, Bush willfully blew up frogs with fireworks.

As a Prince, he mocked a woman about to be electrocuted.

As a King he lied repeatedly to start an unnecessary and stupid war.

You think he is going to buckle to "the people" [Congress] on Gonzo?

NO ONE TELLS the decider WHAT TO DO.
No one.
Not you.
Not me.
Not the people of America.

Anybody who thinks Gonzo is going down easy doesn't understand our Emperor.

Let's put the "mail servers were down" line to rest right now. There is NO.FUCKING.WAY.PERIOD, that the White House servers were non-functional for even 18 seconds, let alone 18 days.

These email were either purged or, as others have pointed out, they went verbal.

I know from working at a few Fortune 50 companies that as soon as the shit starts hitting the fan nobody emails anymore. It's all telephone calls and face-to-face meetings.

That way it's only their word against yours.

But even if they did skip email it means they violated the Presidential Records Act. So they still shot themselves in the foot.

Dish Network doesn't carry c-span 3, so I never remember it exists.

But they are now carrying Current TV on 196.

Al's hypothesis about a two week long crash in the White House computer system makes perfect sense. For a brief period in 2006, Bush switched all WH server hosting systems to a Macon, GA based outfit which maintains database and communications systems using an integrated, faith-based approach to IT solutions. Recognizing that modern "science-based" IT relies on an atheistic, pro-abortion, anti-family "faith" in the properties of electro-magnetism (which are not affirmed once in the Scriptures), Creator's Word, Inc. stores and manages information using only methods of writing, memory and communication that have a strong, biblical foundation that will outlast the prideful inventions of man -- stone inscriptions, papyrus rolls and the narration of parables. Thus all of Rove's, Gonzalez's and Miers's communications last fall are currently being copied to rolls by hand in Koinea Greek and stored in reed baskets. I hear that the White House went back to conventional, Satanic communications and record-keeping in early December after CWI misplaced one of Bush's late-nite requests for a barbecued beef brisket sandwich, leaving him peeved the whole rest of the day.

Not unprecedented in my experience...I've worked with people expecting legal proceedings that simply stopped sending any emails on a given subject. All communication verbal. It does happen.

Possibly. They could have all gone dark on Rove's orders, but there should at least be phone logs, right? Or were they all meeting in a parking garage in Rosslyn, VA?

Disputo on March 21, 2007 at 12:28 PM:

..that really explains it all, doesn't it?

Yup. Subpoena of records and being asked if you are telling the truth is inconvenient for this administration.

smott on March 21, 2007 at 12:29 PM:

All communication verbal. It does happen.

But in this instance, is it legal? From the link:

(NYT columnist) Adam Cohen sketches out four potential crimes that may one day be associated with the prosecutor purge. About his first instance, "Misrepresentations to Congress", Cohen writes, "It is illegal to lie to Congress, and also to 'impede' it in getting information." It doesn't take much of an imagination to see how an orchestrated refusal among top administration officials to use e-mail for even basic communications could be construed as an intent to impede Congress from getting information.

It looks like the White House is kinda stuck; either the documents are there and they won't release them or they have intentionally neglected their legislated recordkeeping requirements of the PRA.

I'd look for the White House to clam up and take the hit on the PRA. The spin will read: "So they sent few personal emails outside the goverment email system; who doesn't access their gmail from work to send some personal things out?"

Pathetic.

He is the Decider not the Responsableforor.

grape_crush

At the puny little joint where I worked, to avoid the server's recording what I sent out, even from my private Email account, I had to use my own lap top on WiFi or hooked to my telephone.

I think it would be even more illegal, wouldn't it, for a staffer to act thus?

The first dump showed that many of the emails from White House officials, especially officials in Rove's shop, were routed through RNC accounts, probably in violation of the Presidential Records Act. Maybe a subpoena should be served on the NRC or maybe the NRC's service provider. I think the name of that company was in the first dump as well.

What a bunch of amateurs! Here's the standard for overcoming executive privelege, as outlined by the court that gave Ken Starr his subpoenas:

The party seeking to overcome the claim of executive privelege must show "first, that each discrete group of the subpoenaed materials likely contains important evidence; and second that this evidence is not available with due diligence elsewhere." (Clinton order)

The "due diligence" is the tricky part of the test...but the argument gets a lot easier to make when there's an 18-day gap in the "complete record" they claim they gave you!

At bottom, courts want to balance the privacy interests of the president with the needs of the investigator. To the degree the president can show he is providing solid information to investigators, a court is more likely agree with that president's executive privelege argument with respect to sensitive information. To the degree the president is blatantly giving the middle finger to investigators with things like an 18-day gap in emails, the less likely a court is to agree with the executive privelege argument.

OH, the Republican pseudo-geek managed email-servers for the White House crashing makes sense, then. Also the fact that some of the emails originated from the RNC headquarters, since the WH email servers were down (I suppose that the WH doesn't have failover servers?)

Oh, ouch, ouch, ouch, my ribs hurt from laughing.

Signed:
Email server administrator in the real world.

maunga on March 21, 2007 at 12:54 PM:

..to avoid the server's recording what I sent out, even from my private Email account, I had to use my own lap top on WiFi or hooked to my telephone.

Sweet. I'll have to try that with my Nokia.

I think it would be even more illegal, wouldn't it, for a staffer to act thus?

Probably, but proving that a staffer or higher-up acted in such a manner with the intent to bypass legislated requirements might be difficult.

But I'm nowhere near being a legal expert on this or any other subject. I kinda just read the news and share what I see and think.

How long was the missing segment on Nixon's tape?

Time to start looking for more domains. They've checked georgebush.com and gwb43.com, but they've likely got some even stealthier domains over which the send the really incriminating stuff.

Even criminals need a vacation now and again.

Did the web servers for all our trolls go down this morning?

Very suspicious..

Let's put the "mail servers were down" line to rest right now. There is NO.FUCKING.WAY.PERIOD, that the White House servers were non-functional for even 18 seconds, let alone 18 days.
Posted by: Dr. Morpheus on March 21, 2007 at 12:35 PM | PERMALINK

Sadly, Dr. Morpheus, you are wrong on this point.

I took a computer ethics class two years ago. One of the case studies was specifically about the White House email system. They had an issue with subpoena of records from Ken Starr, and they couldn't retrieve most of the emails. Apparently, this had been an ongoing problem since 1992. And it was fully investigated, independently vetted, for the Starr investigation; problem was still there, nobody had been able to fix it. As of 2005, problem still existed.

I would not be at all surprised to find out that this was still a problem; and if their email was down for 18 days - that's plausible for this outfit.

Completely unacceptable in any other IT setting (including my own home).

And also - very conveeeenient for folks whose M.O. is, and has been since the Nixon days, obstruction of justice.

gex on March 21, 2007 at 1:14 PM:

..they've likely got some even stealthier domains over which the send the really incriminating stuff.

I'm thinking anonymous emailer/remailers. I'd still like to see the RNC's email subpoenaed, just to piss them off.

"So they sent few personal emails outside the goverment email system; who doesn't access their gmail from work to send some personal things out?" Pathetic.
Posted by: grape_crush on March 21, 2007 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

I don't.

My employer's competent IT staff block all third-party email.

For one thing, email is a HUGE threat to computer security. It's the #1 channel of attack for Trojans, spyware, rootkits, and viruses. Maybe the Democratic party doesn't have access to all the secret communications going on in the White House, but apparently, hackers in Hungary do.

Of course, this might also explain the White House's foreign policy in Nigeria. . .

How many years has Al been posting here? It must be more than two. Is there just one Al or do they trade off? I'm stunned and amazed to see Al troll post still showing up after all these years.

the internet is wierd.

Sorta like teaching a pig to sing?
Wastes your time and annoys the pig.
But getting on the pig's nerves was the point anyway, so your time isn't actually wasted!

Extradite Rumsfeld on March 21, 2007 at 1:26 PM:

My employer's competent IT staff block all third-party email.

At a past job, I couldn't access my Yahoo email account from work. Of course, that policy was flexible for the higher-ups.

I guess part of the issue is this: The PRA calls for the accessibility of Presidential documents. Well, up until 2001 anyway:

On November 1, 2001, President George W. Bush signed a new Executive Order (EO) which "amends" the Presidential Records Act (PRA). The EO places in jeopardy the viability of the PRA, which governs the management of and public access to presidential records.

News of the EO sparked controversy on the Hill, where a subcommittee of the House Committee on Government Reform immediately announced that they would be holding hearings on the action. Likewise, a joint statement authored by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Janice Schakowsky (D-IL) called on President Bush to rescind the EO.

Without a thorough response from the President or his administration, Bush's actions appear to go against the very doctrine of government openness. The new EO also violates the faith of the PRA, which assures public access and mandates the systematic release of presidential records after 12 years or through the use of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, an important "sunshine" reform and cornerstone of government openness. For instance, the new EO also narrows the grounds under which presidential materials can be released through the FOIA. Now, FOIA requests must be proven to satisfy a "demonstrable, specific need" (however that may be defined) in order to be granted. At the same time, Bush's decision expands the original PRA's ability to restrict documents and the range of items eligible for restriction. E.O. 13233 achieves this by establishing two new categories of documents that can be withheld: (1) any communications between the president and presidential aides/advisors; and (2) materials pertain ing to advice and legal assistance the president receives. It also eliminates the wording "confidential" from the criterion which the original PRA established in order to limit access. Where confidential communications were eligible for restriction, communications are now eligible for restriction.

I'm sure that the President has been advised by Gonzales that his Executive Order eliminates the need for full disclosure.

Amazing what a little of 'the Google' will bring up.

"I don't.

My employer's competent IT staff block all third-party email.

For one thing, email is a HUGE threat to computer security. It's the #1 channel of attack for Trojans, spyware, rootkits, and viruses. Maybe the Democratic party doesn't have access to all the secret communications going on in the White House, but apparently, hackers in Hungary do.

Of course, this might also explain the White House's foreign policy in Nigeria. . ." Posted by: Extradite Rumsfeld on March 21, 2007 at 1:26 PM

This was a point I was going to make...can anyone seriously believe that the WH is not protected against *EXACTLY* this type of problem given the amount of highly sensitive information goes through there on a daily basis?!? That the military and other elements of the government would not make damned sure there were no incoming our outgoing transmission that they were not aware of outside of proper channels? I find that one just too hard to swallow even considering the famous incompetence that runs rampant throughout this Administration.

I'm working on confirming the 18-day gap:

http://acepilots.com/mt/2007/03/21/an-18-day-gap/

Jonas, you are too, too funny!!! Thanks for a much-needed laugh! 8^D

The 'performance' lie was to cover up the firings. The 18 day gap in the document dump was to cover up the 'performance' lie.

It's not always the act that gets you in trouble, it's sometimes not even the cover-up. Sometimes it's the cover-up of the cover-up.

Next step: how to cover-up the failed 'gap' cover-up of the failed 'performance lie' cover-up of the firings. Sure would hate to get caught.

Great link, grape. A+++++++++++++. Will read again.

18 days. 18 minutes.

Is this another case of the 'smartest guys in the room' thinking that whatever they try to pull, no one could possibly hold them accountable?

Is this another case of the 'smartest guys in the room' thinking that whatever they try to pull, no one could possibly hold them accountable?

It's the Enron Administration...

...which is why I gotta think twice about any candidate who says 'We need a CEO in charge of the presidency.'

Posted by: McPundit on March 21, 2007 at 12:30 PM:
Did you "feel" the anger in our Emperor's voice at yesterday's presser?
He was positively incandescent.
To paraphrase:
"I can fire anyone I want. I can hire anyone I want. And if you don't like it: TOUGH!"

To my ear it sounded more like he was saying "bring it on" to the insurge.... er ... Democrats. After all, that tough talk worked so well in Iraq, didn't it?

Someone on msnbc said last night that the subpoena then gets sent to the local US Attorney who then decides whether to act on it, in this case one of the newly appointed attorneys.

That's essentially, though not exactly true: the subpoena goes to the people it is directed to. If they refuse to comply, and if Congress votes to hold them in contempt of Congress, then there is a referral to the US Attorney who decides whether or not to pursue criminal charges.

Of course, if they choose to ignore the referral, that essentially raises the ante, and that point, Congress' only recourse is to impeach somebody.

Good string. Being a computer dummy, I don't follow it all, but how can you tell they were rerouting it through RNC -- is there some imprint on the e-mails or something? Or are they using their RNC e-mails instead of the office one, kind of like I use my yahoo account when I am sending personal emails from work? If someone can explain, I'd apreciate it.

Three weeks for Thanksgiving?

Posted by: Steve on March 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM | PERMALINK: Being a computer dummy, I don't follow it all, but how can you tell they were rerouting it through RNC -- is there some imprint on the e-mails or something? Or are they using their RNC e-mails instead of the office one, kind of like I use my yahoo account when I am sending personal emails from work? If someone can explain, I'd apreciate it.

The mail headers, which are present in each msg, but often not displayed by default in many email clients, record each server through which the msg passed en route to its destination.

I'm not a lawyer, but I should think it's pretty hard to argue that their msgs are protected by "executive priv" when they didn't use govt servers for communication. Perhaps yet another blunder by the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

Hey all, off-topic, but send good thoughts toward North Carolina. The Edwards campaign canceled an appearance in Iowa on Wednesday and called a press conference for Thursday to discuss the future of the campaign, after Elizabeth had a follow-up appointment that apparently did not go well.

Maybe the White House e-mail server was hacked by the same h4x0rs who took down Joe Lieberman's impregnable web site last year.