Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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April 3, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

MEN ON THE STREET....Was the Baghdad marketplace that John McCain visited on Sunday really "like a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime," in the words of Rep. Mike Pence (R–Cloudcuckooland)? We already know it wasn't, but Kirk Semple of the New York Times provides additional entertaining detail:

"What are they talking about?" Ali Jassim Faiyad, the owner of an electrical appliances shop in the market, said Monday. "The security procedures were abnormal!"

The delegation arrived at the market, which is called Shorja, on Sunday with more than 100 soldiers in armored Humvees — the equivalent of an entire company — and attack helicopters circled overhead, a senior American military official in Baghdad said. The soldiers redirected traffic from the area and restricted access to the Americans, witnesses said, and sharpshooters were posted on the roofs. The congressmen wore bulletproof vests throughout their hourlong visit.

"They paralyzed the market when they came," Mr. Faiyad said during an interview in his shop on Monday. "This was only for the media."

Hey, those Iraqi merchants are pretty sophisticated guys! And Faiyad is positively cheerful compared to the rest of the people Semple interviewed.

On the bright side, it turns out that Gen. Petraeus is a generous tipper.

Kevin Drum 2:23 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (161)

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Comments

What a tool Saint McCain is. He can't do anything right. Shouldn't someone tell him he's fast becoming a cartoon character?

Posted by: This Machine Kills Fascists on April 3, 2007 at 2:37 AM | PERMALINK

As Larry Johnson asked over at TPMCafe, why are we asking our men and women in uniform to risk themselves so that John McCain can try, ineptly, it seems, to rescue his campaign?

Posted by: Jeff S. on April 3, 2007 at 2:53 AM | PERMALINK

The story people are missing here is that McCain's pointless and pathetic publicity stunt resulting in the deaths of innocent Iraqi civilians. In response to the photo op, snipers moved into the area shortly afterwards and opened fire on people to show that the area is not, in fact, safe.

Good work, McCain. Tens of thousands of Iraqis (and possibly more than a hundred thousand) have lost their lives in this war - so what's a few more deaths? You have your photos to support a manifestly delusional story line that only Fox News will carry and only Fox News viewers are stupid enough to believe.

Stupid, pointless, reckless and entirely self-serving dishonesty. Congratulations McCain.

Posted by: Augustus on April 3, 2007 at 2:56 AM | PERMALINK

Robert Wright is a guest columnist at the New York Times this month, and right now on Times Select he has a wonderful column posted that will be in the print edition in a couple of hours.

Here is an excerpt:

That’s partly because in the Army, the stakes are so high. Sending people into battle isn’t something a good person does with detachment. Before the Iraq war, when the Army chief of staff, Gen. Eric Shinseki, testified that the postwar occupation would require hundreds of thousands of troops, he was showing not just prudence but devotion. He didn’t want his soldiers needlessly imperiled.

As a reward for his devotion, General Shinseki was disparaged by Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Rumsfeld wanted to show how cheap war can be, and now our soldiers are paying the price. I wish some people on the left had a deeper respect for the military, but lately the left isn’t where the most consequential disrespect has come from.

If you want to read the whole thing, I posted it.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C) on April 3, 2007 at 3:21 AM | PERMALINK

(R-Cloudcuckooland)

Ha, that made me laugh. But why does Cloudcuckooland need quite so many Representatives and Senators?

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2007 at 3:24 AM | PERMALINK

There is a touching story about ADM Husband Kimmel, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii at the outbreak of World War II in the Pacific.

When the island of Oahu was attacked without warning on Dec. 7, 1941 by the Japanese, Kimmel arrived at CINCPAC HQ to assess the situation while the base was still under enemy fire. As he stared dumbfoundedly out the window at the carnage of "Battleship Row", a well-spent machine gun bullet came through the window and struck the admiral square in the chest, but bounced harmlessly off his jacket and fell to the floor in front of him.

As his aides rushed to him, ADM Kimmel calmly bent over and picked up the bullet, looked at it and said quietly to no one in particular, "It would have been far more merciful if it had killed me."

The Iraq War has been championed by John McCain since its inception, and he has since been one of the war's foremost and unapologetic proponents. And although he may not know it yet, yesterday's farce in that Baghdad square was probably the good senator's "Kimmel Moment".

At least ADM Kimmel had the grace to accept personal responsibility for presiding over a military disaster that would result in both the forfeiture of his command and his consignation to a dubious footnote in U.S. Navy history.

Sen. McCain, on the other hand, admits to nothing, and then has the personal temerity to challenge us, the American people, as to whom we would believe -- him or our own lying eyes.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on April 3, 2007 at 3:33 AM | PERMALINK

Things are horrible! Yay!

Posted by: Frank J. on April 3, 2007 at 3:33 AM | PERMALINK

"like a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime,"

Remind me not to go to Indiana in the summertime.

Posted by: bigcat on April 3, 2007 at 3:38 AM | PERMALINK

Do you see any of us celebrating, Frank J? No, you do not! We do, however have the ability to think, perceive and feel - qualities the war-hawks seem to lack even a scintilla of.

No one is cheering the devastation that has wrecked our military, destabilized an entire country - and possibly the entire middle east before it's all said and done - and cost half a trillion dollars and 3250 dead. That you think so is a poorer reflection on you than it is on us.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C) on April 3, 2007 at 3:48 AM | PERMALINK

3250 dead Americans. Add in the Iraqis, and that number climbs exponentially, into the hundreds of thousands.

And no one is saying "Yay!"

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C) on April 3, 2007 at 3:50 AM | PERMALINK

Frank J., Barbara Streisand has a personal message for you.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on April 3, 2007 at 3:55 AM | PERMALINK

The story people are missing here is that McCain's pointless and pathetic publicity stunt resulting in the deaths of innocent Iraqi civilians. In response to the photo op, snipers moved into the area shortly afterwards and opened fire on people to show that the area is not, in fact, safe.

And didn't 6 under-supported US soldiers die elsewhere in Baghdad while McCain was sucking up all that military protection to tour a bazaar?

Posted by: Disputo on April 3, 2007 at 3:58 AM | PERMALINK

The Texas boys have Enronified the US foreign policy.

In any event, you would be happy too if you can buy five rigs for five bucks.

Posted by: gregor on April 3, 2007 at 4:00 AM | PERMALINK

In response to the photo op, snipers moved into the area shortly afterwards and opened fire on people to show that the area is not, in fact, safe.

Additionally, we got proof right here that removing the troops from Iraq will save lives.

Posted by: Disputo on April 3, 2007 at 4:01 AM | PERMALINK

Been beating that drum loudly at my place, Disputo - not just on-line but in a letter to the editor, too.

And couldn't Lindsey Graham have purchased his damned rugs stateside? What did this juggernaut cost the American taxpayer?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C) on April 3, 2007 at 4:03 AM | PERMALINK

Call those carpets Grahams Killer Bargain!

And people in Indiana - retire congressman Pence next election. Keep talking about this farce, this sham, this...stunt.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C) on April 3, 2007 at 4:12 AM | PERMALINK

I came here for the entertaining trolls, not a chorus of agreement.

C'mon, c'mon. Get with it.

Posted by: anonymous on April 3, 2007 at 4:19 AM | PERMALINK

The Gymp's sleepin.'

Posted by: Zed on April 3, 2007 at 4:27 AM | PERMALINK

There's an interesting story in this morning's The Independent in London, UK:

The botched US raid that led to the hostage crisis
"A failed American attempt to abduct two senior Iranian security officers on an official visit to northern Iraq was the starting pistol for a crisis that 10 weeks later led to Iranians seizing 15 British sailors and Marines.

"Early on the morning of 11 January, helicopter-born US forces launched a surprise raid on a long-established Iranian liaison office in the city of Arbil in Iraqi Kurdistan. They captured five relatively junior Iranian officials whom the US accuses of being intelligence agents and still holds.

"In reality the US attack had a far more ambitious objective, The Independent has learned. The aim of the raid, launched without informing the Kurdish authorities, was to seize two men at the very heart of the Iranian security establishment.

"Better understanding of the seriousness of the US action in Arbil - and the angry Iranian response to it - should have led Downing Street and the Ministry of Defence to realise that Iran was likely to retaliate against American or British forces such as highly vulnerable Navy search parties in the Gulf. The two senior Iranian officers the US sought to capture were Mohammed Jafari, the powerful deputy head of the Iranian National Security Council, and General Minojahar Frouzanda, the chief of intelligence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, according to Kurdish officials."

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on April 3, 2007 at 4:38 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for that link, Donald. I opened it and bookmarked it, but it is 2:30 central and I just finished grading the annotated bibliographies for Cellular, and now I have to crash.

Goodnight all. (I think that's just you Donald...)

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 4:44 AM | PERMALINK

Saddam Hussein : Baghdad Bob :: George W. Bush : John McCain

Posted by: JJF on April 3, 2007 at 5:10 AM | PERMALINK

Hey, I don't know about you, but I usually wear a bullet-proof vest, have the area cordoned off and have snipers and attack helicopters in position when I go to the local supermarket. What's the big fuss???

More delusional thinking from the wackjob wing of the Republican Party....

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on April 3, 2007 at 6:45 AM | PERMALINK

"Remind me not to go to Indiana in the summertime."

Don't go to Indiana in the summertime, bigcat. As a matter of fact, it's generally to be avoided year 'round.

Posted by: BroD on April 3, 2007 at 7:42 AM | PERMALINK

Now we know the real reason for the surge: so GOP Congressfolk can have on-the-ground photo-ops leading into the 2008 elections. Did they charter a military flight? What was the cost? Does the cover get paid for from the candidates' "war" chests or everybody's war chest?

And to think I once thought only down-to-Earth people like Michael Jackson and Madonna went on those kind of shopping trips.

Posted by: jon on April 3, 2007 at 8:48 AM | PERMALINK

Ah, Kevin.

So this is all a joke to you, huh? Do you really think an American senator has that much pull that he can redirect American military forces to protect only himself? Occam's razor, Kevin.

Posted by: egbert (means business) on April 3, 2007 at 8:50 AM | PERMALINK

Egbert means business! Does this mean he will be consulting a dictionary before posting his inane, spoon-fed blatherings?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 9:05 AM | PERMALINK

"Do you really think an American senator has that much pull that he can redirect American military forces to protect only himself?"

I doubt McCain asked for this kind of protection. But there is no way the military would let him walk on the street without an amount of protection that would guarantee his survival. They are not going to let a US senator get wacked on their watch. That would be very bad PR. Of course, the fact a US senator needs 100 troops and 5 helicopters to guarantee his survival isn't exactly good PR, either. But it's better than a corpse.

Posted by: fostert on April 3, 2007 at 9:18 AM | PERMALINK

But why does Cloudcuckooland need quite so many Representatives and Senators?

Because its population of Republicans, and the number of red states it encompasses, is vast, of course.

Posted by: Gregory on April 3, 2007 at 9:32 AM | PERMALINK

I have been to many Indiana farmers' markets in the summertime and have not yet worn a bulletproof vest. But then I don't live in Congressman Pence's district. Maybe it's rougher up there.

Posted by: mike on April 3, 2007 at 9:33 AM | PERMALINK

Frank J wrote: Things are horrible! Yay!

Frank ol' buddy, in order to claim you're a humorist, you have to be, you know, funny.

Meanwhile, while things in Iraq are horrible, despite what you delusional Bush cultists claim, I defy you to point out where Kevin or any of the commentors here is cheering the fact.

You're not only unfunny, Frank, but also dishonest. But then, we knew that -- we don't get honest conservatives here.

Posted by: Gregory on April 3, 2007 at 9:35 AM | PERMALINK


There is a great post on The Carpetbagger Report from a couple of days ago about the mainstream media's (specifically Time magazine's) ignoring the prosecutor purge scandal.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/10367.html


What explains the failure of the mainstream media to cover the purge scandal for so long, and so many other scandals? Do you think somebody just set up newspaper editors to cheat on their wives, and threatened to tell if the editors wouldn’t play ball when they come back some day and ask for something?

It wouldn’t be that hard to do, when you think about it. People wouldn’t talk about it.

Also check out a new post on my blog.

Posted by: Swan on April 3, 2007 at 9:40 AM | PERMALINK

**OT, but you'll enjoy this...

From the current NYT article on Romney's fundraising:

''The three major tools that you need to raise money for a presidential campaign are the experience of having been around the track, good name identification and good poll numbers,'' said Ron Kaufman, a former White House political director who is advising Romney. ''McCain's got all three, Giuliani's got two of the three and Mitt Romney has none but he still succeeded.''

In other words: the three fundmental keys to success are x y and z... but you can still succede even if you possess neither x y or z.

???

Posted by: lampwick on April 3, 2007 at 9:41 AM | PERMALINK

Hey orwell has finally admitted that he's a troll. How does that old saying go, admitting you're sick is the first step toward recovery?

Posted by: klyde on April 3, 2007 at 10:08 AM | PERMALINK

How many soldiers' lives were put at risk so McCain could prove his delusional point? The soldiers in the pre-visit sweep, the 100 accompanying McCain, the dozens in the helicopters...

Posted by: john on April 3, 2007 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

Wow... the grand opening of Potemkin Mart!

Posted by: Ponto on April 3, 2007 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

The delegation arrived at the market, which is called Shorja, on Sunday with more than 100 soldiers in armored Humvees — the equivalent of an entire company — and attack helicopters circled overhead, a senior American military official in Baghdad said. The soldiers redirected traffic from the area and restricted access to the Americans, witnesses said, and sharpshooters were posted on the roofs. The congressmen wore bulletproof vests throughout their hourlong visit.

This is a disgrace to modern sensibilities. The dog and pony show is the province of the Democratic politician who never rubs elbows with our military service personnel; to see a Republican engaged in this type of behavior is beyond the pale.

Now, as an honest conservative, you have me on record condemning one of my own. I will take a pass on Reagan's famous maxim and add this point:

McCain's stroll ensures that a lot of people like myself are going to be writing checks to Rudy Guiliani.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

Nice microcosmic moment, from Mr McC. Acc. to one prominent warhawk narrative the Iraq war itself was supposed to demonstrate our invincibility to the Arab world so they'd all roll over in shock and awe. Instead, it's showing (for about the umpteenth time in modern history) how easy it is to bog a superpower down in an unwinnable insurgency conflict--gee, who'da thunk it?--and how impotent that force is when wielded by idiots.

Trying to prove that this isn't true and the war is winnable (and being won!), McCain goes over there and provides a set of indelible images showing just the opposite.

I'm starting to think Saddam had a secret weapon of mass destruction after all. Some kind of beam or ray that cuts the IQ of anyone in favor of war over there by at least half.

Posted by: DrBB on April 3, 2007 at 10:22 AM | PERMALINK

company wasn't there to protect only Sen. McCain but the party. And who else was in that tour group?.... aah, yeah, the guy who can tell troops where to go and what to do.

Posted by: getaclue on April 3, 2007 at 10:22 AM | PERMALINK

company wasn't there to protect only Sen. McCain but the party. And who else was in that tour group?.... aah, yeah, the guy who can tell troops where to go and what to do.

Take the chicken bone out of your mouth before you comment here, sir.

Do you have a point?

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 10:27 AM | PERMALINK

McCain's stroll ensures that a lot of people like myself are going to be writing checks to Rudy Guiliani.

Mitty: your checks are worthless if they are backed only by the Monopoly money from your mom's garage.

Get a job.

Posted by: NSA Mole on April 3, 2007 at 10:29 AM | PERMALINK

Get a job.

Don't need to. I am wealthy. Going out with this morning's mail is a check to the Guiliani campaign for $25,000, sir. What would you do with that kind of money? Would you buy that flapper dress you saw at the thrift market? Would you get the good lipstick and the happening pumps in the 4E size scheme? Would you get the fancy nylons and the wig from the "special" store downtown? I'm sure that 25K could turn you into the best drag queen this side of Memphis.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 10:34 AM | PERMALINK

I know a thing or two about Indiana, having grown up there (on a farm, no less).

I can't think of a single Indiana summer market that required a detachment of troops for safety.

A good friend had an RA in college who was a real jackass - faux-Christian, used to throw his weight as an RA around just because he could. That RA's name was Mike Pence.

Plus ça change, as they say.

WF

Posted by: Wes F. in North Adams on April 3, 2007 at 10:37 AM | PERMALINK

Televised for all to see--a crucial disconnect.
McCain-- living in a parallel universe or succumbing to dementia.
It was John McCain versus Reality, exposed.
Laughable and sad at the same time, kind of makes you crazy following it. Electable? As if!

Posted by: consider wisely always on April 3, 2007 at 10:39 AM | PERMALINK

What a codpiece moment.

I knew McCain was a sham and strongly suspected Mike Pence was, too. Thanks for the proof, Kevin. No doubts about 'em now.

Posted by: Apollo 13 on April 3, 2007 at 10:44 AM | PERMALINK

Ahhhhhh.

This explains what I heard on NPR this morning.

The Iraqui people are coming out to the markets, they are enjoying the peace. Life is returning to normal.

My interpretation was, the same as I am sure other Americans had, Victory in Bagdahd.

Why is it important that Americans be "convinced" of another Mission Completed?

The threatened VETO?

Oh, and OT: Talk Radio was VERY interesting last night. I usually sail by it but Savage Nation had a "Deprogram Republicans" night. Folks could call in and say whether or not Bush had disappointed them for "not being a conservative".

Bush isn't conservative, huh?

So this will be their back door out, the Republicans. Bush Isn't Conservative so they can dump him like a hot potato, without loosing face. They wish.

Posted by: Zit on April 3, 2007 at 10:52 AM | PERMALINK

Don't need to. I am wealthy.

Of course you are, Norman. Of course you are.

Posted by: NSA Mole on April 3, 2007 at 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

I would encourage everyone here on this site to visit the following blogspot for a different perspective on this battle. Listen to what actual Iraqi's have to say instead spiraling down the hateful partisan spin machine you've so eloquently spun.


http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/


"Second I would like to make clear one point to bloggers like dailykos and some MSM supported blogs who seem so upset for some reason that the voice of some Iraqis is being heard.
I've seen some of them publish stories full of lies and accusations they can't support and I think it's pathetic to throw the "you're a sold-out propaganda" accusation at people just because they don't share the same point of viewThis only reflects their lack of knowledge and the bankruptcy of ideas they suffer.

We speak the language of facts, supported by images and statistics and more important, we live here while they don't. We write about the good days as well as the bad days in Iraq's journey to a better future.
You don't even have to search in this blog's archives, just scroll down this page and you'll see both good and bad newswe witness an explosion and we write about it and we see progress and we write about it.
If they can't see that it's their problem, not ours."


Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2007 at 11:02 AM | PERMALINK

Oh, good one, Apollo 13. "A codpiece moment."
Did you see the political cartoon from an actual photo that Al Rodgers had on Daily Kos this past Saturday--it was Dubya with his codpiece, and the guy beside him says --why don't you disconnect the parachute straps from your codpiece--and Dubya answers, because the SOCKS will fall out.

Posted by: consider wisely on April 3, 2007 at 11:02 AM | PERMALINK

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

You ninny. The liberals already know that this blog is bought and paid for by Pajamas Media.

If you want to cite positive developments, fine, go ahead, but those of us who have already broken with McCain and are supporting Guiliani just want to point out that, delusional posturing and ass-covering notwithstanding, the fact that US troops died near where McCain was having his dog and pony show as if he were some hairshirt-wearing liberal is evidence that things may not be as hunky-dory as we would like them to be, sir.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:07 AM | PERMALINK

goblin--your post is the ultimate non-sequitur...does not follow from the premises, an interference, and quite frankly, strange.

Posted by: consider wisely on April 3, 2007 at 11:08 AM | PERMALINK

CW always: Did you see the political cartoon...

No, but I'll check it out. Your description is... Funny!

Former Tennesse Sen. Fred Thompson (a bona fide actor as opposed to the other poseurs) shakes up Repub contenders for 2008.

Ramussen poll published today (conducted March 26-29, 2007) for 2008 Republican Presidential Primary:

With Thompson in the mix, Giuliani’s support tumbles to 26%, down nine points from a week ago. That’s the lowest level of support measured for Giuliani in any Rasmussen Reports poll this year.
The poll numbers:
Rudy Giuliani 26%
John McCain 16%
Fred Thompson 14%
Newt Gingrich 11%
Mitt Romney 8%
Mike Huckabee 3%

However... "Among Very Conservative voters, Giuliani attracts 20% support followed closely by Thompson at 19%, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich at 18% and McCain at 14%."

(h/t to pollster.com/blogs)

Posted by: Apollo 13 on April 3, 2007 at 11:10 AM | PERMALINK

Second I would like to make clear one point to bloggers like dailykos and some MSM supported blogs who seem so upset for some reason that the voice of some Iraqis is being heard.

I've learned something new already, Jay-- apparently Iraqi bloggers write in the same style and "voice" as right-wing American bloggers! They even have similar blogrolls! Amazing!

Posted by: Tyro on April 3, 2007 at 11:11 AM | PERMALINK

Good work, McCain. Tens of thousands of Iraqis (and possibly more than a hundred thousand) have lost their lives in this war

Actually, it's more like 600,000 plus dead Iraqis and counting.

Posted by: Stefan on April 3, 2007 at 11:17 AM | PERMALINK

The poll numbers:
Rudy Giuliani 26%

And that is all one needs to say.

McCain is yesterday's fishwrap, blowing in the wind and tumbling into obscurity. I personally blame the deteriorating situation in Iraq on the fact that Guiliani's man Bernard Kerik was not able to stay there and help the Iraqis put together a tough Bunco squad and cordon off the rough parts of town.

New York City used to look just like Baghdad. That's why they made Escape From New York without really having to do anything cosmetic to the city--they just used to actual streets and the actual citizens as extras and made a horrific film. (I watched it the other evening and I was struck by how Kurt Russel could pull off looking like a badass when most of us remember him from The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes.

Well, Rudy cleaned up New York. Six months in Baghdad and he'd have things operating again. He would deal thusly with the thugs, the organized crime and the wayward Union bosses and turn Baghdad into the pearl of the Middle East.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:19 AM | PERMALINK

Norman, dammit, you never closed your parentheses. I'm still waiting...

Posted by: Ali Blahblah on April 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM | PERMALINK

They should rename Baghdad to Bartertown and put Tina Turner in charge. Let Master Blaster run the powerplants.

Posted by: Ali Blahblah on April 3, 2007 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

Deleted commentary

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2007 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

All this lacked was a plastic turkey.

Posted by: MsNThrope on April 3, 2007 at 11:26 AM | PERMALINK

Norman, dammit, you never closed your parentheses. I'm still waiting...

We have a saying here in the Northeast--quityerbitchin'.

This foolhardy blog platform consumed my HTML tag and I didn't get to finish my thought. I was trying to link to Kurt Russel's IMDB profile, which is actually more varied, I believe, than Kevin Bacon's.

I tried to say that...

(I watched it the other evening and I was struck by how Kurt Russel could pull off looking like a badass when most of us remember him from The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes. Russel is famous for two documentaries--Elvis and Escape From New York. They are classic examples of how an actor can show us the collapse of celebrity and the collapse of society. I think his Elvis was far better than Kevin Costner's.)

There, now hush. We're talking about Guiliani and McCain. I apologize for going off-topic, but really, when you think about it, I do believe the media needs to pay attention to the fact that Guiliani has experience FIXING a major city; McCain only has experience GETTING SHOT DOWN in a major city.

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah!

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:27 AM | PERMALINK

Apparently you have the same style and "voice" as a left wing loon.

... who was right about Iraq, while you were wrong. Never forget to add that last part.

Posted by: Tyro on April 3, 2007 at 11:28 AM | PERMALINK

The poll numbers: Rudy Giuliani 26%

Look, if Republicans really want to elect a tough on crime, tough on terrorism, pro-gay rights, socially moderate and fiscally conservative New Yorker who enjoys wearing dresses, pearls and high heels, then why not just elect Hillary Clinton and be done with it?

Posted by: Stefan on April 3, 2007 at 11:28 AM | PERMALINK

Apparently you have the same style and "voice" as a left wing loon.

... who was right about Iraq, while you were wrong. Never forget to add that last part.

Posted by: Tyro on April 3, 2007 at 11:31 AM | PERMALINK

I knew Kurt in the 5th grade. Sat directly behind me in Waverly Heights Elementary in Thousand Oaks, CA. At that point he did Hasbo toy commercials which displayed the full range, from A to B, of his acting abilities, and his biggest claim to fame was his father, Bing, who had a small recurring character role on Bonanza.

His class project that year was consisted of a concerted effort to drill a hole completely through his desk with a pencil...that should be a clue as to his intellectual aspirations.

Posted by: MsNThrope on April 3, 2007 at 11:33 AM | PERMALINK

All this lacked was a plastic turkey.

No, no, McCain was there.

Posted by: Stefan on April 3, 2007 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK

Did Jay really just say that?

Posted by: Whaaaaa on April 3, 2007 at 11:37 AM | PERMALINK

Mr. Bush is on television live, having read from a script on Iraq/Afganistan funding issues.
His appears so aged from when we saw him reading "The Pet Goat."
Questions from reporters, as he ad libs, intermittently show the grip of inarticulate speech and the repetition of well-practiced talking points and characterizations. Opps--a purgegate question answer seems rather practiced, especially since he said "let me finish, please."
He called a male reporter "the cute looking one."
Oh, oh--strawman argument--a group of people think that....can we succeed.
His voice sounds plaintive.
Ooh--Matthew Dowd question--says he understands his anguish over war, this emotional issue, Matthew's case is obviously intensified as his son is to be deployed...more about the leaving before the mission is done--and he puts forth the tried and true fear paradigm that they'll come and get us.
Asked if he was aware of the price of a gallon of gas and why it went up--great question, but his handlers must have pulled an all-nighter getting these responses ready, or he is on cognitive-enhancing meds.

Posted by: consider wisely on April 3, 2007 at 11:41 AM | PERMALINK

I prefer Riverbend's end of year comments (I think Mike Pence better have a word with her).

End of Another Year...
You know your country is in trouble when:

1. The UN has to open a special branch just to keep track of the chaos and bloodshed, UNAMI.
2. Abovementioned branch cannot be run from your country.
3. The politicians who worked to put your country in this sorry state can no longer be found inside of, or anywhere near, its borders.
4. The only thing the US and Iran can agree about is the deteriorating state of your nation.
5. An 8-year war and 13-year blockade are looking like the country's 'Golden Years'.
6. Your country is purportedly 'selling' 2 million barrels of oil a day, but you are standing in line for 4 hours for black market gasoline for the generator.
7. For every 5 hours of no electricity, you get one hour of public electricity and then the government announces it's going to cut back on providing that hour.
8. Politicians who supported the war spend tv time debating whether it is 'sectarian bloodshed' or 'civil war'.
9. People consider themselves lucky if they can actually identify the corpse of the relative that's been missing for two weeks.

Posted by: snicker-snack on April 3, 2007 at 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

Look, if Republicans really want to elect a tough on crime, tough on terrorism, pro-gay rights, socially moderate and fiscally conservative New Yorker who enjoys wearing dresses, pearls and high heels, then why not just elect Hillary Clinton and be done with it?

I think I'll just pass on that and say that I have looked into the face of evil and that it is not something I want to see repeated.

Rudy - fixed a major city
Mccain - shot down in a major city
Romney - Dug a hole under a major city
Gingrich - Never lived in a major city
Edwards - Sued everybody in a major city
Obama - Did cocaine in a major city
Clinton - Laid waste to the social fabric of a major city
Biden - Really, who cares?
Dodd - ???

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:43 AM | PERMALINK

You know, moderator, I wouldn't have deleted Cut 'N Run Jay's comments about how 600,000 dead Iraqis isn't a bad thing. Let it stand there as evidence of his sociopathy, corruption, and general creepiness. Let everyone who reads it know what kind of person he is.

Posted by: Stefan on April 3, 2007 at 11:43 AM | PERMALINK

All this lacked was a plastic turkey.

No, no, McCain was there.
Posted by: Stefan

Am I good straight man or what?

Posted by: MsNThrope on April 3, 2007 at 11:44 AM | PERMALINK

You know, moderator, I wouldn't have deleted Cut 'N Run Jay's comments about how 600,000 dead Iraqis isn't a bad thing. Let it stand there as evidence of his sociopathy, corruption, and general creepiness. Let everyone who reads it know what kind of person he is.

I missed Mr. Jay's bloodthirsty comments. Moderator, you can delete everything he says for all I care. He does not represent the Republican Party or the conservative movement. I think he represents one or two cranks living in hollowed-out bunkers in the woods somewhere.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINK

Well, Rudy cleaned up New York. Six months in Baghdad and he'd have things operating again. Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:19 AM

What is it with you Republicans, always looking for a savior.

What about getting off your wealthy self-satified ass and doing some work yourself, instead of waiting around for the next person who will take care of everthing for you.

I swear.....

Posted by: Zit on April 3, 2007 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINK

Now see, Stefan, as long as you say things like that, I will continue to see a more buff Martin Short.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK

I think I'll just pass on that and say that I have looked into the face of evil and that it is not something I want to see repeated.

Look, you're not the only one here who's had a one-nighter with Paula Zahn. Get over it.

Posted by: Stefan on April 3, 2007 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

Don't need to. I am wealthy.

Criminy. Haven't seen one of these kinda posts since practically the old BBS days. The thrill of anonymity on the web. "I'm a CIA agent and if you don't yield to me I'll be bugging your house!" The smell of stale Cheese Doodle crumbs all over it. Cringe-worthy. Does he do this often?

Posted by: DrBB on April 3, 2007 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

I'm with Stefan - when the sociopath shows his true colors, without using words that fit the legal definition of obscenity, those words should stand, and remain as a record.
Future readers will have a context they can use as a filter for the rest of his commments.

OT:
... and the number one reason Americans are happy that Fred Thompson is running for President of the United States:

Networks will have to pull all the Law & Order re-runs that he is in until after the election!

Posted by: kenga on April 3, 2007 at 11:48 AM | PERMALINK

What is it with you Republicans, always looking for a savior.

Oh, and that description certainly doesn't fit Al Gore, does it? No, we're not looking for a savior. We're looking for a leader who has actually done things. No wonder you can't recognize that. We pick leaders to lead us in this country; we don't pick nags who nag us in this country. I realize all of modern liberalism can be summed up thusly: Just Send Us a Nag Who Will Tell Us What Is Wrong With Us So We Can Feel Smug. Pardon the rest of us for not wanting to deal with your insecurities and your need to feel better than everyone else because you eat organically grown carrots and drink soy milk.

What about getting off your wealthy self-satified ass and doing some work yourself, instead of waiting around for the next person who will take care of everthing for you.

Thanks to a lifetime of investment banking, I'm already pretty wealthy and retired; someday, when you're finished working at the Co-Op bagging organic groceries and waiting for hipsters to tip you, you can retire as well. Enjoy eating organic dog food and waiting for your handout to come in the mail every month.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:51 AM | PERMALINK

Rudy's affiliation with Kerik will pretty much hurt him, IMHO. Doesn't it seem there is a bigger effort to expose the republican candidates weaknesses than observed in the past primary election cycles?

Posted by: consider wisely on April 3, 2007 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

DrBB, I've always said how it never ceases to amaze me how many self-made-millionaire veterans of the Special Forces who turned down harvard because they realized that they weren't going to learn anything there that seem to hang around on IRC and discussion boards.

Posted by: Tyro on April 3, 2007 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

He does not represent the Republican Party or the conservative movement. Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 11:45 AM


Unlike yourself of course.

I have found Jay to be, at least up until today, a cookie-cutter Republican. He makes all the same regurgistated points as Al, Hawk, Egbert, and the Great Yourself.

Posted by: Zit on April 3, 2007 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

DrBB, I've always said how it never ceases to amaze me how many self-made-millionaire veterans of the Special Forces who turned down harvard because they realized that they weren't going to learn anything there that seem to hang around on IRC and discussion boards.

Posted by: Tyro on April 3, 2007 at 11:54 AM | PERMALINK

I wonder what an electronics store owner would have to say about security after Hillary had a photo op in his market in front of his store. In New York City. When Dinkins was mayor, it would about the same ambience.

You folks are trying to hard.

Posted by: Mike K on April 3, 2007 at 11:56 AM | PERMALINK

"As Larry Johnson asked over at TPMCafe, why are we asking our men and women in uniform to risk themselves so that John McCain can try, ineptly, it seems, to rescue his campaign?

Posted by: Jeff S."

As Larry Johnson said in the New York Times in August 2001, terrorism is not a problem Americans should concern themselves with. You've got to get some new material. Larry Johnson !

Posted by: Mike K on April 3, 2007 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

That was a disturbing display.

He is stepping up the deployment of the remaining brigades to get every last troop in the fray before the money in the pipeline runs out.

He just took 20,000 hostages and threatened their lives if Congress doesn't do things his way.

Some of those troops are heading back the war zone with as little as seven months stateside.

This is not a sane course of action.

ITMFA!!!

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 11:58 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks to a lifetime of investment banking

but Norman, I swear from your particular and quite immaculate style that you were working the bottle cleaning factory last year.

Posted by: Gabby Dick on April 3, 2007 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

I wonder what an electronics store owner would have to say about security after Hillary had a photo op in his market in front of his store. In New York City. When Dinkins was mayor, it would about the same ambience.

Sir, I already made that point. See above--Rudy Guiliani FIXED the disaster made by David Dinkins.

YOU should get new material and stop copying what I say.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 12:01 PM | PERMALINK

"No, we're not looking for a savior. We're looking for a leader who has actually done things."

So, why the heck are you supporting that incompetent poseur Guiliani, then? Go ask a NYC firefighter about how wonderfully Guiliani performed on 9/11.

Posted by: rea on April 3, 2007 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINK

Oh ouch, Normy. The dog food reference really really hurt.

Al Gore is just the kind of leader you describe. If he was a Republican, he would be getting all the awards and fancy dinners and campaign contributions right now for saving humanity. He would have your unfailing support and blind loyalty.

But alas he is a Democrat. He shall have to forgo the blind loyalty, the fancy dinners. Because he is a Democrat he must be wrong, and not only wrong, but wrong on every last possible point, according to you trolls.

And since you are full steam today, list me some stuff about Bush and his contribution to this country's people, fill me in on his health care reform or the stopping of immigration or anything else in terms of domestic policy this guy has accomplished in 7 years for the good of the country he dictates over.

And if you say the economy is good, please note I listened to News Talk last night and Savage Nation (that dear republican) has armed me fully about the negligable inmpact of presidents on the US economy.

Fire away.

Posted by: Zit on April 3, 2007 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

Norman: "McCain's stroll ensures that a lot of people like myself are going to be writing checks to Rudy Guiliani."

LOL. Exactly. Why support a pseudo-fascist when you can have the real thing?

Posted by: Peter Principle on April 3, 2007 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

LOL. Exactly. Why support a pseudo-fascist when you can have the real thing?

Yes, well there's nothing at all fascist about Hillary Clinton, now is there?

Boo-ya!

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 12:16 PM | PERMALINK

Gabby Dick,

Actually his bottle cleaning was some of his best work.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 3, 2007 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, your post of 11:23 am was your best ever. I mean it man, good work.

Posted by: W on April 3, 2007 at 12:20 PM | PERMALINK

off-topic, but this letter was in the newspaper and bears reading-- kids and seniors directed by a law enforcement official to the site of counter-demonstrators who physically abused them...

"Two busloads of Pittsburghers journeyed to Washington, D.C., on March 17 to oppose the war in Iraq. Our group of 100 included adults, college students, 10 high school students, a few grade-school children and several senior citizens. Our banner read, "Pittsburghers for Peace."

As we approached the Lincoln Memorial, I asked a police officer if we were heading in the right direction for the anti-war protest, and he said, "Yes." He did not warn us that we were heading directly into a counterdemonstration being held by Rolling Thunder.

We soon found ourselves surrounded by men and some women, clad in leather, with angry faces, calling us traitors, whores, queers, along with other profanities. They shoved members of our group in what felt like an attempt to provoke us. One man pulled a sign out of the hands of one of our high school students and tore it in half; another spit on a student. They would not permit us to pass. We peacefully turned around and walked the long way back along the reflecting pool to approach our protest site from another direction.

We were shaken but also shocked that anyone would treat us with such disrespect and inhumanity. We do not know whether all of the individuals whom we encountered were indeed veterans, but they were part of Rolling Thunder's counterdemonstration. We hope that veterans and veteran organizations would thoroughly investigate what happened March 17 and reprimand those who were responsible for these abuses."


Posted by: consider wisely on April 3, 2007 at 12:20 PM | PERMALINK

well there's nothing at all fascist about Hillary Clinton, now is there?

No, not really -- although she certainly seems to bring out the fascist in guys like you. (As do drag queens, black Senators, health food stores and Social Security recipients, apparently.)

Posted by: Peter Principle on April 3, 2007 at 12:24 PM | PERMALINK

I knew Kurt in the 5th grade.

What about his Gilligan's Island stint as "jungle boy"? Wasn't that about then?

Posted by: W on April 3, 2007 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

Actually his bottle cleaning was some of his best work. Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 3, 2007 at 12:17 PM

Probably some of his only work. Boo. Yah. [insert rolled eyes here]

Posted by: Zit on April 3, 2007 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

All this Norman talk. Let me tell you he's a pale imitation of the man he used to be.

Posted by: Hedda Stout on April 3, 2007 at 12:30 PM | PERMALINK

Let it stand there as evidence of his sociopathy, corruption, and general creepiness.

Jay has embodied sociopathy for quite some time. I think it was his all-out defense of Koresh that was the first clue.

Posted by: ckelly on April 3, 2007 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

We were shaken but also shocked that anyone would treat us with such disrespect and inhumanity.

That does suck. especially since they probably weren't even planning on burning american soldiers in effigy or chanting "bye, bye GI, in Iraq you're gonna die!"

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINK

Norman, when you get a chance, check out the number of US congressmembers who have served in the military. (Does someone have a link to a chart, from last year, anyway?) You might be pleasantly shocked to discover that far more Democrats than Republicans have served. We know by now that you are far too intelligent to buy GOP flagwaving at face value.

Posted by: Kenji on April 3, 2007 at 12:40 PM | PERMALINK

Mike, I used to live in Eugene, where those interloper Anarchist punks are from. They are truly the worst of the worst.

And the noise machine wants to portray all opposed with the same brush.

This is evidenced by the fact that they got the press, not the 15,000 peaceful demonstrators who were dignified and respectful.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, RSM,

Sort of like the 15,000 peaceful, disciplined war protestors in Portland, OR a couple of weeks ago. Orderly, peaceful demonstration - Coverage by the media? Well, since there a handful of jerkite anarch a couple of blocks away and at the end of the peaceful demonstration, burning a flag and a GI effigy, guess where the media's focus was centered.

This is what puke O'Arrogantone ran the next Monday evening - Not the 15,000, but the handful of retards who had NOTHING to do with the peaceful demonstration.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 3, 2007 at 12:42 PM | PERMALINK

Norman, when you get a chance, check out the number of US congressmembers who have served in the military. (Does someone have a link to a chart, from last year, anyway?) You might be pleasantly shocked to discover that far more Democrats than Republicans have served. We know by now that you are far too intelligent to buy GOP flagwaving at face value.

Well, the fact of the matter is, most Republicans are leading corporations, building wealth, and running America's cities. That leaves little time to serve in the military. Democrats more easily fit into the cogs of the machinery that Republicans run--thank you for pointing out that a Democrat is far more likely to be a worker bee or a peon and that a Republican is far more likely to be too busy running things to serve in the military. Your point is very astute.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

This is evidenced by the fact that they got the press, not the 15,000 peaceful demonstrators who were dignified and respectful.

They got what they wanted, that's for sure. I wish some of the peaceful protestors had protested against them too.

Isn't that the way it always seems to go? I assume that the millions of peaceful Muslims are having their message hijacked by the radicals, same as the jerks in Oregon. With friends like that...What to do about it?

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINK

Guess Mike Pence never had enough of a hangover while at Hanover, to stop by the local enlistment center. Nor, did he after five years of law at Indiana, and he was far tooooooo busy as a talk show radio and TV host to ever enter any military enlistment office.

But, he is such an expert on war and combat. And look at the soldiers surrounding him on his Iraqi photo op a few months back - But, he was soooo brave in not wearing a helmet. Funny vest, though.

Posted by: stupid git on April 3, 2007 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

Why don't we just agree that both sides have those we would rather stay the hell away, they give everyone a bad name, and we can't control a handful of anarchist punks any more than you can control those bikers.

Let's be intellectually honest, shall we?

Personally, the minute anyone questions anothers patriotism, simply for having the temerity to practice their Constitutional rights, they lose all credibility and perceived moral authority.

If they are veterans, they should be doubly rebuked, because veterans so not pledge to uphold war policy - they vow to uphold the Constitution, which guarantees that right.

You took that oath. You know what it says. Honor it.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

I would like the DOD Inspector General to investigate whether this was diverting military resources for a partisan political photo opportunity.

McCain is a legislature. He's not even in the chain of command.

Posted by: Carl Nyberg on April 3, 2007 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K,
I don't really think you want to start a historic quote war now do you - "last throes" "Mission acccomplished" "slam dunk" "war lasting maybe six weeks, I doubt six months"...?

Posted by: ckelly on April 3, 2007 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

"same as the jerks in Oregon"

And, in your mind, those jerks would be?

The 15,000 were on their way home, when the anarchs started their "demo" several blocks away. These were the same types from Eugene and Portland, who pulled the same tactics in Seattle for the WTO protests.

So, who do you believe in an election, RSM, the 15,000 who vote for your beloved leader Shrub, or the handful who vote against him?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 3, 2007 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

That came off bitchier than I meant it to. You and I have always been respectful of one another and I am not attempting to take it in another direction. I should have proofed that last comment before I hit post.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

Norman: I served five years in the military and the vast vast majority are Republicans. Apparently, there must be a surplus of Captains of Industry.

Posted by: CalStateDisneyland on April 3, 2007 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK

That stat is way outdated. In the enlisted ranks, it is about 50-50, and officers tend to be about 47-53 these days. In the past, it was much different, but those days have faded in the face of this war and the strains on the military as a result.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

"McCain is a legislature"

Perhaps in his deluded mind, he truly believes that he is the entire legislature. But, when he becomes Emperor, he won't need one anymore.

Posted by: stupid git on April 3, 2007 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

Let's be intellectually honest, shall we?

Personally, the minute anyone questions anothers patriotism, simply for having the temerity to practice their Constitutional rights, they lose all credibility and perceived moral authority.

Let's be intellectually honest shall we?

I doubt the protesters were just out practicing their constitutional rights and happened to just pick anti-war protesting that day, kind of like Fridays are "chest and triceps" day at the gym.

That came off bitchier than I meant it to.

Good thing I like spankings.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

Bush has put out the new catchy buzzphrase "Cauldron of Chaos".

Posted by: R.L. on April 3, 2007 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK

Oh we could go there. You sure you want to?

I offered an olive branch.

What gives you the authority to ascribe motives to anyone else?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 1:07 PM | PERMALINK

And don't dismiss the Bill of Rights like it's a workout regimen.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

Bush sure is good at critizing but at the same time he and McCain sure are good at telling lies on how well the war in Iraq is going, what is it about these delusional republican bastards, if the war in Iraq is going so well as the republicans would have you believe then why send more of our troops over there to begin with, keep up the poor work you republicans because at 29% approval rating we sure will not have to worry about any of you sorry bastards holding the White House for years to come. LMAO

Posted by: Al on April 3, 2007 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

What gives you the authority to ascribe motives to anyone else?

Authority? The right is more like it. I believe "ascribing" is probably protected speech too. The fact that it is a sensitive issue with peace protesters does not give additional protection.

I don't question their patriotism. I think they are acting in the best interests of our country as they see it. But I defend the rights of others to do so. Let them counter the argument with reason, not "How dare you infringe on my constitutional right to free speech." Non sequitor.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

And don't dismiss the Bill of Rights like it's a workout regimen.

Dismiss? I devote an hour a day to it, same as my workouts.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

The spitting and the grabbing of the sign and the shoving is an encroachment on the rights of the protesters who were molested.

How far are you willing to defend those actions of the few?

I saw video of the counter protesters who were saying "these traitors (70% and counting) can just leave the country!" Does that person speak for you?

I denounced the Anarchists in Portland. WIll you denounce those who went to far that represent your point of view?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

So the other 22 hours?

I sort of consider it a lifetime avocation (all the amendments, even the second). But that's just me.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

FACT: Bush has been wrong on every aspect of Iraq.Why is this any diffrent.Oh I don't recall.heh hah

Posted by: john john on April 3, 2007 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

I denounced the Anarchists in Portland. WIll you denounce those who went too far that represent your point of view?

Sure, if I find one. The Rolling Thunderers don't. But I denounce their methods and the anarchists too.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

So that woman who said everyone who doesn't support the president in this war is a traitor and should either be imprisoned or exiled? She didn't go too far in your opinion?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

What about his Gilligan's Island stint as "jungle boy"? Wasn't that about then?
Posted by: W

Don't know. His only semi-intelligible topic of conversation was go-cart racing. That and the progress he was making twirling a pencil in that hole in his desk.

I won't go into the spectacle his mother caused the one and only time she played 'room mother', it will suffice to say that it almost made us feel sorry for him.

Posted by: MsNThrope on April 3, 2007 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

Can't fault Sen Lindsey Graham for taking advantage of that "Going Out of Business" sale at the Baghdad rug merchant's locale.

Query - Has there ever been a rug merchant anywhere who has not had a "Grand Opening" and a "Going Out of Business" sale at the same time?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 3, 2007 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

Graham's Killer Bargain!!!

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

So that woman who said everyone who doesn't support the president in this war is a traitor and should either be imprisoned or exiled? She didn't go too far in your opinion?

I don't agree with her, if that's what you mean. Was she an elected official? If so, the voters should shit-can her.

I also don't agree with the general Bush is Evil tone that gets thrown around by the left, and I view it as equally tasteless.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

I also don't agree with the general Bush is Evil tone that gets thrown around by the left, and I view it as equally tasteless.
Posted by: Red State Mike

Then I guess you really don't care for 'W stands for War Criminal'? As if we give a rat's ass that our tone offends you.

Posted by: MsNThrope on April 3, 2007 at 1:45 PM | PERMALINK

Can't we talk about more substantive "stuff", such as Rosie O'Donnell versus Bill O'Arrogantone?

As Michelle Malkin says, "We must have standards"

Posted by: stupid git on April 3, 2007 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

As if we give a rat's ass that our tone offends you.
Posted by: MsNThrope

Actually, much energy is expended here to offend me. I'm surprised Heavy hasn't shown it's face yet.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK
... The dog and pony show is the province of the Democratic politician...Norman Rogers at 10:10 AM
Bush using troops for props is against miliary regs. To exhale means to lie for tools like you.
... Going out with this morning's mail is a check to the Guiliani campaign for $25,000... Norman Rogers at 10:34 AM |

Floppy rogers beats his chest,

Sitting on a high horse.

Stick a feather up his arse

and calls himself a peacock.

...When Dinkins was mayor, it would about the same ambience.... Mike K at 11:56 AM

Yes, all those car bombs, police shooing people in doorways and the fabled Rectum Reamers.
... general Bush is Evil tone.... Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 1:39 PM

It's too bad that some people are not sufficiently differential to Dear Leader. Tsk tsk.

Posted by: Mike on April 3, 2007 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, much energy is expended here to offend me. I'm surprised Heavy hasn't shown it's face yet.

Don't put on your martyr robe just yet. I believe the vast majority of the abuse is hurled my way, sir.

The simple fact of the matter is, becoming unhinged and attacking the good name of our elected officials and hating America is one kind of speech; kindly pointing out that said speech is offensive is another kind of speech. While both may be protected under the aegis of the First Amendment, the former is just a tad bit more "inciteful" than the latter, and I will leave it to you scholars to tell us how speech that incites violence is no worse than simply criticizing someone's stance on a matter.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

MsNThrope: Then I guess you really don't care for 'W stands for War Criminal'?

I thought W stood for Worst President in History.

Posted by: Apollo 13 on April 3, 2007 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

Don't put on your martyr robe just yet. I believe the vast majority of the abuse is hurled my way, sir.

Rightly so, since you disagree with the left wing dittoheads here and so therefore must walk on cloven hooves.

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sorry; I never meant to offend you Red State Mike. I thought you were genuinely proud of your service to the Kuwaiti Monarchy and your oppression of the people of Iraq. I thought you genuinely wished to be the pilot whose bomb killed a pregnant woman just because she happened to be near someone you wanted murdered without benefit of a trial. I figured that graphic descriptions of the effects of dropping bombs on human beings would help remind you of all the fun you had rendering those human beings into piles of bloody suffering. Instead of helping you relive your glory days, these things offend you? Heaven forefend.

Odd though, people calling George W. Bush names offends your delicate sensibilities, but the slaughter of what appears to be hundreds of thousands of human beings at his command, not so much.

Posted by: heavy on April 3, 2007 at 3:12 PM | PERMALINK

heavy said
blah, blah, blah...

Elementary school let out early?

Posted by: Red State Mike on April 3, 2007 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

Rightly so, since you disagree with the left wing dittoheads here and so therefore must walk on cloven hooves.

I do a fair amount of sailing, so it is actually boat shoes. Hooves are found on the fat chicks who post here.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 3:16 PM | PERMALINK
I also don't agree with the general Bush is Evil tone that gets thrown around by the left, and I view it as equally tasteless.


Equally tasteless? So criticizing the specific policies and actions of a particular elected official as "evil" is "equally tasteless" to the suggestion that any iota of dissent from the leader is traitorous and deserves criminal punishment.

Well, that clears up a lot about you, thanks.

Posted by: cmdicely on April 3, 2007 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

Dismiss? I devote an hour a day to it, same as my workouts.

I guess right-wing trolls now call masturbation to Ann Coulter a "workout." Impressive. You must be able to hold a 12-pack of diet cokes AND a 64 oz. bag of Fritos with one hand.

Seriously, you trolls are great:

Red State Mike = buff he-man
Norman Rogers = wealthy, retired investment banker pulling the GOP strings behind the curtains

Both of you losers couldn't get laid in an Asian whore house with a bag full of warm rice.

Posted by: NSA Mole on April 3, 2007 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

I like "Couldn't get laid if you were a chocolate covered millionaire with a fistful of new shoes."

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 3, 2007 at 4:31 PM | PERMALINK

"Rightly so, since you disagree with the left wing dittoheads here and so therefore must walk on cloven hooves."

Um, no. Dear little Normy is a troll, first, last and always, so it's hardly surprising that he comes in for his share of abuse. That you ignore this inconvenient fact says a lot about you.

Posted by: PaulB on April 3, 2007 at 4:43 PM | PERMALINK

"Actually, much energy is expended here to offend me."

And again, no. You assign yourself far too much importance and you ignore how little energy it takes to refute your little fantasies.

Posted by: PaulB on April 3, 2007 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

Poor Red State Mike, remind him of his greatest hits and all he can come up with is childish insult. I know our military produces better minds than this - too bad it is so dishonored by Red State Mike's presence.

Posted by: heavy on April 3, 2007 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

Norman Rogers = wealthy, retired investment banker pulling the GOP strings behind the curtains

Independently wealthy and very capable as an investment banker, if you want the real story. I wish I were pulling the strings--we'd have less to worry about right now.

Both of you losers couldn't get laid in an Asian whore house with a bag full of warm rice.

I've nailed Paula Zahn; you've probably nailed a sock to your bedpost. Wonder which one of us would appeal to a woman of discerning taste. I'm wealthy, thin and generous. You're goofy and broke.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

Dear little Normy is a troll, first, last and always, so it's hardly surprising that he comes in for his share of abuse.

No, dear. I'm not, because trolls get deleted. My comments don't get deleted anymore. Guess you'll have to deal with it, dear.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

Couldn't get laid if you were a chocolate covered millionaire with a fistful of new shoes.

Now that's good.

Posted by: ckelly on April 3, 2007 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

"I'm wealthy, thin and generous."

Gosh, Norman. You get more like Adonis-like each time you post. Shouldn't there be a Hollywood starlet wife too?

Fat chicks, would that be any woman lucky enough to avoid catching your penetrating slavering eye?

Posted by: Zit on April 3, 2007 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

I've nailed Paula Zahn, Norman Rogers

You nailed a picture of Paula Zahn

Posted by: Keith on April 3, 2007 at 5:35 PM | PERMALINK

I've nailed Paula Zahn;Norman Rogers

You nailed a picture of Paula Zahn.

Bet she doesn't brag about you.

Posted by: Keith on April 3, 2007 at 5:37 PM | PERMALINK

I've nailed Paula Zahn

Punching your midget while watching Paula Zahn doesn't count as "nailing" her.

Neither does paying a hooker to call herself Paula Zahn.

Posted by: NSA Mole on April 3, 2007 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

The problem comes down to one simple thing - Iraq was not a threat to our national security and Bush's lies convinced enough people that this was true to allow him to effectively declare war on the Iraqi people. No matter how many times we have idiots on this board tell us that it was all for the benefit of the Iraqi people, it will never be true. The American people would never have sacrificed 3000+ American soldiers for the good of the Iraqi people.

Bush: Hey, let's send 140,000 soldiers to bring democracy to Iraq.
America: Why?
Bush: Because it will be a nice thing to do for them.
America: Um...don't you think they should be asking us for democracy first?
That wouldn't have made Bush a War President, that would have left him a greater laughingstock than his failure of a father. So he lied, he played word games, and now he isn't even man enough to budget for the war - it's always an "emergency." We've been at war with the Iraqi people for four years now, it's as much an emergency as the sun coming up in the morning.

Support for the war is waning because the American people now know there was never any national security reason to murder Iraqis.

Posted by: heavy on April 3, 2007 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

Player haters, that's what liberals are. Player haters.

Don't hate, homies.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 5:52 PM | PERMALINK

Heh. Seven posts expending energy to offend me, including one which expended energy explaining how he doesn't expend energy offending me (props to the ever dependable PaulB). Nice.

Posted by: Ali BlabBlah on April 3, 2007 at 6:47 PM | PERMALINK
Heh. Seven posts expending energy to offend me, including one which expended energy explaining how he doesn't expend energy offending me (props to the ever dependable PaulB). Nice.

Um, no one said anything about you, "Ali BlabBlah". Oh, wait, your just RSM whose adopted another nickname to use while trolling, and then forgot which handle you'd been using in this thread? Oh, okay, in that case... Just because some is responding to you and you are getting offended doesn't mean that the purpose of the response is to offend you. Really, you overestimate the importance of your reactions to the posters' here.

Posted by: cmdicely on April 3, 2007 at 7:17 PM | PERMALINK

Really, you overestimate the importance of your reactions to the posters' here.

What? No love for your uncle Norman? When I said no fat chicks, I didn't mean you, sugar.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on April 3, 2007 at 8:06 PM | PERMALINK

To spend an hour in a place, halfway round the world, and then have the balls to compare it with your home state, is the height of ignorance. Baffling and distressing.

Posted by: Stephen Kent on April 3, 2007 at 8:44 PM | PERMALINK

MsNThrope: Then I guess you really don't care for 'W stands for War Criminal'?

I thought W stood for Worst President in History.
Posted by: Apollo 13

I've never acknowledged that cloth-headed cretin front man as having any legitimate claim to the office. He's a usurper. 'Hail to the Thief'.

Posted by: MsNThrope on April 4, 2007 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

Norman, as stated above, is a self-proclaimed wealthy thin generous Paula-shagging finance playa’ in deck shoes who sails across the blogging boards dispensing Wisdom and Truth.

"My comments don't get deleted anymore." he says.

And he is right. He is a precious source of comedic relief that we cannot afford to waste.

Posted by: Zit on April 4, 2007 at 11:26 AM | PERMALINK

Oh, wait, your just RSM whose adopted another nickname to use while trolling, and then forgot which handle you'd been using in this thread?

That. Is. Hilarious.

You know, I thought that "Ali B's" style and syntax sounded a bit familiar, but I couldn't place it. Nice to see I wasn't imagining it.

Posted by: Stefan on April 4, 2007 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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