Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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April 29, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

GO AWAY....Michael Finnegan writes in the LA Times today that the current political landscape for Republicans is so toxic that the party is having trouble finding good candidates to contest even winnable House seats in 2008. That's not really all that surprising. But here's the best part of Finnegan's piece:

And in New Hampshire, nonpartisan pollster Dick Bennett said the atmosphere is so sour that he is having a tough time getting Republicans to participate in surveys. The war, high gas prices and unhappiness with the Bush administration all have dampened their interest sharing opinions, he said.

Republicans are too depressed to even answer poll questions? That's toxic.

Kevin Drum 12:49 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (101)

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Comments

Not shedding a single tear for the mendacious pricks who let it get to this point. Let them wallow in their misery. It's of their own making.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 12:58 AM | PERMALINK

Agree. They are the very definition of traitors who hate America.

Fuck them.

And I mean that with all due respect, of course.

Posted by: craigie on April 29, 2007 at 1:02 AM | PERMALINK

And I mean that with all due respect, of course.

Which is, of course, none at all when we are talking about these drooling, feckless fucktards.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 1:06 AM | PERMALINK

Republicans don't pay attention to polls.

Posted by: asdf on April 29, 2007 at 1:07 AM | PERMALINK

In 2004, we were supposed to believe that the exit polls were wrong because Republicans don't answer polls.

Posted by: treetop on April 29, 2007 at 1:18 AM | PERMALINK

Am I suppose to feel sorry for them? These depressed people supported their Party without so much as an iota of inquisitiveness. They bought without question ever lie told them. And now they are depressed.

At this point, I hope they carry that depression with them into the election, where they will refuse to participate in voting.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will make me feel sorry for them.

Posted by: Rook on April 29, 2007 at 1:25 AM | PERMALINK

Umm, guys, it's that sort of attitude from the Bushies that has led them to politicize everything and engage in hateful and fascistic tactics to get what they want at any cost.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Chris O. on April 29, 2007 at 1:26 AM | PERMALINK

They can all stick their collective depressed head in a giant oven, a la Sylvia Plath if they want. I could not possibly care less about the feelings and sensibilities of a bunch of opportunistic jackals who are at long last getting their comeuppance.

Is it possible to overdose on schaddenfreude?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 1:33 AM | PERMALINK

(Rook! Congrats on the Salon link recently!)

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 1:34 AM | PERMALINK

Umm, Chris O., I don't think so. It was their need to do what was good for their party rather than what was good for the country that led them to politicize everything and engage in fascistic tactics.

I think it's entirely reasonable to contemplate turning this around and putting country above party while at the same time brooking the republicans no sympathy whatsoever for their well earned depression.

Posted by: Dave Howard on April 29, 2007 at 1:39 AM | PERMALINK

Chris O.:Umm, guys, it's that sort of attitude from the Bushies that has led them to politicize everything and engage in hateful and fascistic tactics to get what they want at any cost.


Hi Chris. So far there are comments from Blue Girl, craigie, asdf, treetop and Rook. Which one, or is it all of them, that you are branding as fascist because they refuse to express sympathy for Republicans? Do you see the refusal to express sympathy for political enemies as the extent of Bushie offenses against American citizens? Because if those are the only faults you find with the Bush administration, enough said. You're delusional.

Posted by: cowalker on April 29, 2007 at 1:41 AM | PERMALINK

It will be interesting to see how the GOP "base" responds to their favorite cable TV newshows *and* talk radio in the next several months when they begin to run out of bullshit and spin. Gas prices will climb more than oil prices because of reduced refinery capacity. Who wants to build a refinery? Why bother? Just let demand slowly outstrip refined products capacity (here and worldwide). Just sit back and count the cash. Just like the Enron cronies in the California electricity "crisis" in the '90's. That will be the last straw. Even those fools will figure that one out because someone is taking from their feeding bowl....

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on April 29, 2007 at 1:45 AM | PERMALINK

when they begin to run out of bullshit and spin.

Don't be silly. Liberals are responsible for everything. Including Bush, somehow.

People who believe that the last 25% are going to suddenly see reason are dreaming.

Posted by: craigie on April 29, 2007 at 1:47 AM | PERMALINK

Given the bunker mentality I'm a little apprehensive as to what last ditch wunder-weapons they're brewing up.

They've been willing to go way beyond the pail when they were dominant. What now, as the ring closes?

Posted by: notthere on April 29, 2007 at 1:52 AM | PERMALINK

Agree with Craigie - Let the 25-30% who are never going to come around anyway continue their shouting down the well of delusion. Is trying to placate those people enough reason to continue the escalated death of Americans? I don’t think so. They are unreachable. Write them off and move on. We have to stop the war without them. They are going to yammer on no matter what. They are still yammering about Vietnam, for crying out loud. You think there is any possible way they won't do the same damned thing this time? I don't. Not if their past work is any indication.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 1:55 AM | PERMALINK

C'mon, where are the troll'douevres? I was told there'd be snacks...

OK. It's up to me, then. Potluck!

1) ("Blame others") George W. Bush isn't a true conservative. If he'd only implemented orthodox conservatism, the country'd be better off, Iraq would be a successful model of libertarianism, and the only elected Democrats would be dogcatchers.

2) ("Grasp at straws") Well, if Republicans DID answer polls it'd be 65%-35% in favor of Republicans. Come election time, they'll show. LOL kekekeke.

3) ("Toss shit") Well, if you Dems would stop defending outrageous racists like Imus...

Posted by: anonymous on April 29, 2007 at 1:55 AM | PERMALINK

The best that can be said about this administration's supporters is that they had their heads in the sand.

But many, many among them put party above country. How can we forget that???

And the damage done is almost unbearable to survey. Let's hope that the worst is behind us!

Posted by: ppk on April 29, 2007 at 1:59 AM | PERMALINK

anon, nice one.

ppk, we won't know until we see it behind us. It's that effed up.

Posted by: notthere on April 29, 2007 at 2:02 AM | PERMALINK

anonymous - you forgot the most important one:

  • Clinton's penis!!!

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 2:06 AM | PERMALINK

...People who believe that the last 25% are going to suddenly see reason are dreaming.

I didn't assert that they would be seeing reason or they needed to be placated in some way, what I was attempting to point out was the likelihood that they will TURN AGAINST the GOP when they get a good fleecing from the oil companies. Remember, the cheap gasoline just before the 2006 election?

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on April 29, 2007 at 2:07 AM | PERMALINK

Oh man, I think the first GOP Presidential debate will be a real eye-opener. Everyone agrees that the Dems have the strongest field in many years, but the Republicans? Oh my god! They are a laughingstock.
IMO McCain is the only one who could be elected, but he's not looking good to win the nomination.
Romney is an effete fop with nothing to offer.
Giuliani is so nasty and has so much baggage, and he likes gays and abortion---no chance.
That leaves McCain, who's really a whiz at playing the media.. and not much else.

Posted by: marky on April 29, 2007 at 2:08 AM | PERMALINK

Marky,
Did you see McCain's appearance on TDS this past week?

Posted by: Joe Klein's conscience on April 29, 2007 at 2:11 AM | PERMALINK

Jonah Lucianne will singlehandedly revive the party with his book on Hillary is Fascist and so are all the Liberals and a public BJ to his idol Ramesh Ponnuru.

Posted by: gregor on April 29, 2007 at 2:12 AM | PERMALINK


Did you know that Giuliani is McCain's illegitimate black child? It's true!

Posted by: craigie on April 29, 2007 at 2:23 AM | PERMALINK

"Republicans are too depressed to even answer poll questions?"

Color me boggled. If these "Republicans" are really so pained, let them prove it by abandoning the cretinous organization fancied by some to be the Republican Party, as many of us already have done. Until then, they are the problem because they permit their ideology to trump reality.

I was a proud Republican for several decades, but no longer and never again. Actually, my politics did not change. Instead, the "Republican Party" was hijacked by a gang of retarded trust-babies and dedicated to electing a dry-drunk narcissist whose only success in life appears destined to be the destruction of his party and perhaps his nation.

In my view, the entire hijack crowd, including the Bush clan, Rove, Baker, Lockheed-Haliburton and all the rest should be held to answer for the avoidable catastrophe that followed their enablement of Bush 43.

Posted by: James on April 29, 2007 at 2:46 AM | PERMALINK

I would be happy if the vast majority of republicans were to be so dismayed at what they have wrought, so embarrassed about their arrogant yet ignorant cluelessness, and so dismayed at their evidently abysmal political judgement and their general gullibility and recklessness that they would banish themselves from politics and voting for two or three decades.

If they want to atone for their errors by going around apologizing for being such feckless morons, then so much the better.

Posted by: N.Wells on April 29, 2007 at 2:47 AM | PERMALINK

Why would anybody read, much less discuss, the short, fat, festering pimple Joanah Gooberg? Really. Why?

Posted by: bmaz on April 29, 2007 at 2:53 AM | PERMALINK

Hmm. The GOP is so toxic these days that even their trolls are dispirited? How sad!

I just saw Judgment at Nuremberg on KQED. Heard a quote that seemed quite apt for today's situation.

Posted by: Zeno on April 29, 2007 at 2:56 AM | PERMALINK

Chris O.:,/b> "Umm, guys, it's that sort of attitude from the Bushies that has led them to politicize everything and engage in hateful and fascistic tactics to get what they want at any cost. Just sayin'."

Really?

Could it be that our own anger at what's been done to our country and our desire for schadenfreunde threatens to condemn us to a level no better than the Republicans, thus alienating the very people we seek to enlighten?

NAAAH!!! Fuck 'em anyway.

They've sowed the wind. Now, let them reap the whirlwind.

A big Mahalo Nui Loa for your concern, though.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on April 29, 2007 at 3:02 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin, can you repost this every week for the next 18 months?

It's nice to see the numbers for the idiots continue to dwindle and the scandals get thicker and thicker. But it is hard not to worry about what damage will be done in the time that is left. I really hope that Gonzales can be squeezed out. I am not joining the Gates fan club but I feel a little bit more secure with him in there instead of Rumsfeld - this has to make attacking Iraq less likely. Getting anyone else into Justice - even Hatch, hell, even Ashcroft! - would at least slow down the bleeding.

Posted by: BoulderDuck on April 29, 2007 at 3:04 AM | PERMALINK

engage in hateful and fascistic tactics

Hey - Chris O - do you even have a smattering of a clue how to even define the word "fascist"?

I do not believe that you do. Here is a clue: It doesn't apply to everyone who disagrees with you.

Just how the fuck does what anyone has posted here about not feeling sympathetic toward some people whose "comeuppance is coming" allude to merging corporate and state interests?

Misusing words like that - especially in a forum where pretty much everyone is above average - makes you look like a moron. Just FYI...

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 3:15 AM | PERMALINK

Is'nt it amazing that someone like Bush became president in the first place? Our system is rotten in many places especially the media.

Win or lose in 2008, we have to find a way to cut out the rot, or it's going to happen again.

Posted by: ppk on April 29, 2007 at 3:22 AM | PERMALINK

I'm with James. If they felt sincere regret for even 1% of the incompetence, corruption, and crimes their party has committed while in power, they would have left the party.

Those people still self-identified and registered as Republicans are the dead-enders. They place party loyalty above all else - above their country, above common decency, above their faith, above the law, above their grandchildren, above the very planet they live on.

Like every Republican who has been indicted, these people are only embarrassed because they caught and the free ride is over.

If you feel pity for them, you're a fool... the very kind of fool who - when the tables once again turn in the GOP's favor - will have no one else to blame but yourself when you get stabbed in the back by these very same people.

They are immoral, corrupt, soulless, greedy, and infinitely selfish creatures who don't even exist in the same plane of reality as the rest of us.

Sadly, the Democrats have focused the blame almost exclusively on Bush. Failure to widen the blame to the GOP (the enablers who made this all possible) as a whole will make it easier for Republicans to simply scapegoat Bush and regroup much faster (perhaps as early as 2010).

All you have to do is look at the extreme rhetoric that Giuliani, McCain, and Gingrich continue to get away with in scapegoating Democrats for everything from 911 to the Virginia Tech massacre. Bush and the GOP will run out the clock on Iraq to make sure the video of our withdrawal and the subsequent bloodbath will fall on a Democratic president's watch - who they will then blame for losing the war.

Like everything else, it will work if the GOP as a whole isn't marginalized beforehand. (heck, there are still Republicans who are convinced liberal protesters are to blame for our loss in Vietnam).

Posted by: Augustus on April 29, 2007 at 3:29 AM | PERMALINK

Not that amazing that someone like Bush gets elected. Politically, most people in the United States are functional idiots. Over half the country wants a President who is like them; that they could have a beer with. Personally I want a President that is a hell of a lot smarter than I am and I don't want him to resemble any of my drinking buddies. If that isn't proof positive of the general stupidity, consider that these same people voted for Bush and the fucker doesn't even drink beer.

Posted by: bmaz on April 29, 2007 at 3:33 AM | PERMALINK

Agree Augustus - see my comment at 1:55.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 3:34 AM | PERMALINK

bmaz: No shit. When I heard people in 2000 sayign taht Bush is the kind of guy they wanted to have a beer with, I said "Really? You want to go out drinkin' with an alcoholic who is on the wagon?"

This was always met with blank stares, or a feeble "No, but you know what I mean." (No, I really didn't. Still don't.)

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 3:39 AM | PERMALINK

It's funny that they are too depressed to participate in surveys. They've had it all their own way for years and now they've got a hangover. Reality bit them in the butt. That's got to hurt.

Maybe they're looking at their mortgage payments, their credit card bills, gas prices, the daily news, and finally realizing not only that their guys didn't deliver what they promised, that instead things have gotten worse, and week after week another one goes to jail.

Republicans have long known that their representatives were incompetent, but for some reason they seem surprised to learn that so many ostentatiously pious pillars of the community are completely corrupt.

This may be a teaching moment.

Posted by: bad Jim on April 29, 2007 at 3:49 AM | PERMALINK

Don't make the mistake of thinking you're better than the typical Republican. You're not; however, you are different, both in basic temperament and life experience. The talk I hear today mirrors what I heard from my parents when I was growing up. They said that people who were Democrats were actually mentally ill.
My parents were wrong, and so are those of you who want to paint all Republicans with the same brush.
After Bush is gone, we have to live with these people as neighbors again (yeah, I admit that I won't talk to a Republican if I can avoid it at the moment---too painful). It may be too early to build new bridges, but let's not burn down on the old ones quite yet.

Posted by: marky on April 29, 2007 at 3:49 AM | PERMALINK

Augustus, they're not actually evil. A certain number may be crippled inside, slaves to fear, but that's not to say they're not nice people. They probably have kids and dogs.

We're the good side, liberal, loving, generous, "We're in this together!" (WITT) and they're the fearful, resentful, selfish side, insisting "You're on your own!" (YOYO). But if you smile at them or pet their dog, you'll find a lot in common.

Posted by: bad Jim on April 29, 2007 at 4:19 AM | PERMALINK

Well... Reality has a Liberal bias.

How long and how far can you go without facing facts?

I'd be hurt, too.

...But then again, I admit when I do something stupid. Apparently that's a no-no among Repubs.

Posted by: Crissa on April 29, 2007 at 5:11 AM | PERMALINK

Maybe they're looking at their mortgage payments, their credit card bills, gas prices, the daily news, and finally realizing not only that their guys didn't deliver what they promised, that instead things have gotten worse, and week after week another one goes to jail.

i'd also include -- and that they've been lied to by their party; and manipulated; and taken for chumps. that realization has gotta hurt, too.

otherwise, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. i love it. too depressed to even take part in surveys. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
fuck em.


Posted by: linda on April 29, 2007 at 5:29 AM | PERMALINK

I have a friend. He says he will always vote Republican no matter how liberal his views are because they support life and hope.

Hope for fetuses' grand lives as adults over the women they're inside; Hope for Terri Schiavo; Heck, allowing anyone to take over paying for any terminal case, in fact, not allowing any sort of intervention which would hasten their death.

'Liberals killed them' are his words.

How, I'm not entirely sure.

They have hope, it's just not tied to any actual effort or facts on the ground.

Posted by: Crissa on April 29, 2007 at 5:36 AM | PERMALINK

But the real question is what will the U.S. be like as a single party state. When the Republican party finaly collapses, will conservatives start voting in the Democratic primary? Or will the left side of the Democratic party take steps to lock in its current advantage and basically make election pointless exercises like elections in the districts represented by the Congressional Black Caucus?

Posted by: superdestroyer on April 29, 2007 at 6:31 AM | PERMALINK

Republicans are too depressed to even answer poll questions? That's toxic.

No, Kevin. It's smart. Republicans know that no matter what they say, their words will be twisted by the liberal MSM. They are saving their ammo for the election campaign when they can get their message out without being silenced.

Posted by: Al on April 29, 2007 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK

They may get a little motivated and animated if some Democrat suggest that some of them are not paying their fair share of taxes.

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on April 29, 2007 at 9:00 AM | PERMALINK

Well Crissa, I have a friend who goes even further. He says all that, plus that GWB was not even allowed to propose to do what was necessary in Iraq to be successful due to liberal bias in the media and throughout society.

Some of the shoulder chips seem to be pulsating.

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on April 29, 2007 at 9:08 AM | PERMALINK

This story made my Democratic self all happy. But it's bad for the polity when people feel this hopeless. So I really hope that Democrats do more than exploit this gap. Maybe we need a plan to pull the nation together and start taking action to solve our real problems? A plan with the vision and leadership to wisely execute it? Because otherwise the situation will grow worse and then we'll have to share the blame with the Republicans who got us here in the first place.

Posted by: Stact on April 29, 2007 at 9:20 AM | PERMALINK

They are saving their ammo for the election campaign when they can get their message out without being silenced.

And they're waiting for the polls to change from the war to McCain's illegitimate black baby. Something they can really sink their teeth into.

Posted by: wishIwuz2 on April 29, 2007 at 9:36 AM | PERMALINK

"Republicans know that no matter what they say, their words will be twisted by the liberal MSM."

The poor, widdle powerless Wepubwicans! Nice try, Al.

We didn't know that average Republican voters have a message to get across, except that they have been cruelly betrayed, but sure, go ahead and nurture your lonely fantasy.

Posted by: Kenji on April 29, 2007 at 9:57 AM | PERMALINK

Not much to add on this thread, other than to say Republicans created the toxic stew that eventually was their undoing, in a typical Shakespearean manner.

I also echo Stact's comments that Democrats would be better served by crafting policy initatives for alternative energy, election reform, peace initiatives with Middle Eastern countries, etc., than by wallowing in the self-satisfaction of watching the modern American conservative movement go down in flames.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on April 29, 2007 at 9:59 AM | PERMALINK

The Devil & Daniel Webster


This is what happens when you sell your soul to the Devil. First they chose GWB, who should obviously never been President, because he seemed electable. Now they seem willing to embrace 'Americas' Mayor', certainly one of the nastiest people in current politics, for the same reason.

I think the Republican Party will die and be reborn--which is actually good for all of us. 1-party rule is never a good thing and the Dems could use a responsible adversary.

Posted by: James M on April 29, 2007 at 10:03 AM | PERMALINK

I know quite a few Republicans, not politicians, just voters. I don't want to demonize them, for the most part, I like them.

As opposed to the Republican politicians in the WH and House and Senate. There's probably a few there that are decent and honorable, too.

But what I want my friends to realize is that we got here because Republican polititians could say "Pro-Life!" and they would immediately assume that made them morally upright, superior to Democratic candidates.

Others need to realize that Republican politicians said "Tax Cut!" and that immediately made them smarter, and more grown-up than the other side.

They've been had. I think they have figured it out. It hurts, but it's useful pain. It's something they will remember and be a bit more skeptical next time around.

Posted by: Doctor Jay on April 29, 2007 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINK

The loyal Bushies have pretty much driven the Republican party over the cliff.

In their quest for power the loyal Bushies have pretty much run traditional "good (small) government" conservatives out of the party. Many of them are now Democrats. If you don't believe me take a hard look at Kansas. Democrats hold the Governorship, Lt. Governorship, and Attorney General. Well until last year the Democratic Lt. Governor and the Attorney General were good government Republicans. They were run out of their party by the Phil Kline wing. I suspect that is what is happening all across Red State America.

If the traditional Republicans can't retake their party and don't want to become Democrats, one alternative might be to leave the party to the loyal Bushies and start a new American Conservative party.

Posted by: Ron Byers on April 29, 2007 at 10:20 AM | PERMALINK

The depression is pervasive among the population that's been SCAMD...Witness the feeble and pathetic offerings by our own trolls of late. Al is in need of some serious SSRI intervention.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 10:24 AM | PERMALINK

I don't think America, or any country, works well with one small click in total control. Look at what life has been like here the last 6 years. There is more than enough room in our democracy for multiple parties with power swinging back and forth.

Posted by: Ron Byers on April 29, 2007 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, but when it swings this far, it becomes a hangman's noose.

Posted by: Kenji on April 29, 2007 at 10:29 AM | PERMALINK

consider that these same people voted for Bush and the fucker doesn't even drink beer.

Posted by: bmaz

You apparently don't read the tabloid headlines at the checkout counter, bmaz. Funny thing is, I bet he is one mean as hell drunk.

Hopefully the fucktards won't answer polls because they are having the sad realization that their thoughts expressed in politics just turn to shit.

And hopefully those of us on the left will have learned some object lessons here. But most likely as the doormats of the left give way to more aggressive and proactive leaders, the more didactic and less tolerant elements of the left will come out of hibernation, too. I haven't encountered "political correctness" since its last gasps on college campuses in the early 80's, but it was real, and it was alienating and demeaning to a lot of working and middle class white males from Democratic families (it was probably a big factor in my early, foolish years as a Republican). Even if those kids are smug and overpriviledged (which many of them are), they don't know any better at that age, and if you attack them for who they are instead of attacking what they stand for, you may have lost a voter for life. I think the best approach the Dems could have now would be to invest in college Democrat clubs where they recruited and trained the best and the brightest at effective persuasion (as opposed to the College Republicans who seem to train in dirty politics).

I would LOVE to see the most vicious and personal attacks on the leaders of the Republican party and their Democratic and Ct4Lieberman enablers. I don't know that that in itself would hurt liberals (it might actually give us hope that someone was doing something on our behalf). The danger I see is that that sort of tactic becomes the model for interactions between ordinary liberals and conservatives. Unfortunately you need to devise a way to attack the leaders while allowing ordinary conservative voters to save face and hopefully slink off to obscurity (where they don't vote and don't answer polls). That is the sort of skill I and most college age kids never had/have, but it is something that liberals definitely need to cultivate on campuses (and among other noncollege-attending Dem constituencies). Unlike the basic advantage conservative politics enjoys, liberal politics will never appeal to the reptilian parts of the American brain. If it did, it would just turn to communist authoritarianism, which isn't what we want either.

I've seen on certain blogs that I no longer read after various incremental victories over the last couple of years, the definition of "concern troll" gets broader and broader, as the consensus opinion of the regular commenters gets narrower and narrower.

I'm jussayin.

*ducking in preparation for the imminent torrent of criticism*

Posted by: jussumbody on April 29, 2007 at 10:30 AM | PERMALINK

If you don't believe me take a hard look at Kansas.

Anyone who wants to see what is in store for the national party need only look at Kansas.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 10:31 AM | PERMALINK

Ron:

Agreed. I wish a viable third party (not associated with Ralph Nader) would take root in America. Both parties have become money-grubbing privilege mongers. We need a strong third party to relieve the polarity.

TCD

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on April 29, 2007 at 10:36 AM | PERMALINK

The Conservative Deflator,

The political structure of the U.S. does not lend itself to multiple parties. Since blacks, jews, and hispanics automatically vote for any candidate that has a D next to his name, no group of reformist can ever walk away from the the title of Democratic Party.

I see national politics becoming more like state politics in the deepest blue states where local and state elections are almost meaningless and the only relevent election will be the Democratic Primary in the district of a retiring politician.

Posted by: superdestroyer on April 29, 2007 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK

If only more Repugs would take the High Road of Randall Tobias and just practice abstinence from government by just saying No to working there.

Well done Randy and a nice touch by having your resignation come out at 5 on a Friday.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 29, 2007 at 10:56 AM | PERMALINK

BGRS,

Speaking of Kansas, it appears that it is hard to find any whitewash in local Lawrence, Kansas stores. Seems as though, Scott Bloch, bought up the lot and took it to DC.

Posted by: stupid git on April 29, 2007 at 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

An important point here is that these Republicans who won't answer questions haven't actually changed their minds about anything, they just don't want anyone to know what they think.

A large part of social conservatism is hysteria and the Republican will think that being identified or associated at this point with a 'seemingly negative association' is a way to persecute or segregate them, as if someone were making a list.

But their opinion, if anything, has only been strengthened by adversity.

Posted by: cld on April 29, 2007 at 11:11 AM | PERMALINK

But their opinion, if anything, has only been strengthened by adversity.

Precisely

Some of the truer true believers will not ever be talked out of the jungle, or only decades after their boy Emperor has gone back to Crawford and an early death from cirrhosis and untreated hep-C.

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on April 29, 2007 at 11:22 AM | PERMALINK

Agreed. I wish a viable third party (not associated with Ralph Nader) would take root in America.

A viable Constitution Party, or other right-wing party, is far more likely to emerge than a left-wing third party, IMHO.

Perot was no leftist.

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on April 29, 2007 at 11:24 AM | PERMALINK

'Some of the true believers'? Oh, I think all of them.

Social Conservative, Authoritarian Mental Disorder is a medical problem. Some might sit out an election, some of the less affected might even vote for Hillary out of annoyance at being annoyed, but they'll all jump off the next cliff at the first opportunity.

Until we can as a society address these people as a medical problem there will be no coming to terms with it.

Expelling them or encouraging them emigrate or roping off some part of the country they can call their own would simply compound and extend the problem.

Posted by: cld on April 29, 2007 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

Folks, don't count these chumps out yet.

Another 'terror' event or some sort of 'incident' with Iran before the elections and all will be forgotten. Put nothing past the current regimes capacity for evil. Remember that a cornered rat is the most fearsome animal in the world.

"It is a good thing for the leaders that men do not think" - Hitler.

Posted by: Buford on April 29, 2007 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

BUT, but what about what Broder said?

Repugs love Bushie, and according to the "Dean" Bushies got a loving loyal Bushie cult following that will never give up and never give in - leastwise, we all know that Broder loves little Bushie AND those four un-ordinary senators, all devout followers of loyal Bushie Repug virtues.


Posted by: Cheryl on April 29, 2007 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK

That's LIFE.

Posted by: Being Boring on April 29, 2007 at 12:14 PM | PERMALINK

Muslim punk.

Posted by: cld on April 29, 2007 at 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

Confusion to our enemies!

Posted by: JHM on April 29, 2007 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

And the Bush Priznut endorsement for 08 goes to....


2008: White House Allies Split
New York Times - Apr 28, 2007
By Sarah Wheaton. The Chicago Tribune reports that, though President Bush has been careful not to show support for a specific Republican contender, his allies appear to have split their support between the campaigns of Senator John McCain and Mitt ...

If McCain could just get that hard worked for big wet smooch on the cheek that Lieberman so proudly line up for during Dubya's SOTU speech, it would do wonders for McBush's drooping poll numbers, I'm sure.


Posted by: Cheryl on April 29, 2007 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

I know, I know, maybe Bushie could give McBush II the Medal of Freedom, cause lately its been the ultimate loyal Bushie award.

Posted by: Cheryl on April 29, 2007 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

They filled the bath tub; now let's drown them in it.

Posted by: Michael7843853 G-O in 08! on April 29, 2007 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans are too depressed to even answer poll questions?

Kinda explains their shitty fundraising numbers.

And, you've got to wonder, if you can't bring yourself to answer a poll question, how much motivation are you going to work up to go to the polls to vote?

Posted by: frankly0 on April 29, 2007 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

Buford, of course, is right on the money.

Posted by: Pat on April 29, 2007 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

Fuck 'em.

Posted by: Boorring on April 29, 2007 at 2:22 PM | PERMALINK

[There is no Democrat Party]

Posted by: minion on April 29, 2007 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

I think that was pretty shabby to take down my post - I call your party [my former party] Democrat, rather than Democratic, because you believe we should live under the yoke of our robed masters on the Court, in the law schools and in acedemia. If the style police require me to use the phrase Democratic Party from now on I present myself as successfully re-educated.

Posted by: minion on April 29, 2007 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

But, we are living under the Yoke of our Robed Masters -

Remember that contrived decision in December 2000, where the far rightists reached their conclusion first, then searched frantically for any rule of law to support that position.?

Or the recent partial birth ban?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 29, 2007 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

They filled the bath tub; now let's drown them in it.

---Michael7843853 G-O in 08!

Nay, it's just the Repugs never learn how the flush the toilet, impeach, grow-up, or clean up. If Repugs drown government funding, where would they get their next paycheck? It would only be from Jack Abramoff subsidiaries? I mean, if it were not for K-Steet and lobbyist like Abramoff, Repugs would have NO campaign funding whatsoever.


Posted by: Cheyl on April 29, 2007 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

I think that was pretty shabby to take down my post - I call your party [my former party] Democrat, rather than Democratic,

Exactly why I call the other party the Repukeliscum - they make me puke, they are scum - repukeliscum. I'll use that term until civility returns, and the Repukeliscum use appropriately civil terms for my Party.

Posted by: POed Lib on April 29, 2007 at 3:10 PM | PERMALINK

marky

Good point.

But remember segregation: to wit, Republicans increasingly live in All-Republican neighbourhoods (neighbourhoods where 65% or more of the electorate vote Republican) and vice-versa Democrats. The Austin Chronicle-Statesman had an excellent piece on this in 2004. So it's more and more likely that your neighbour will vote the same way you do.

It's nonsense to believe that the Democrats will attain an absolute, lasting ascendancy simply because one group of Republicans effed up.

Bush won with nearly 50% of the electorate once, and more than 50% the second time (of the 2 parties).

His coalition is still valid, and powerful. It represents enduring interests and ideologies in the American system. They have more money than the Democrats, and are better organised. The gerrymandering has gone pretty much all their way since Ronald Reagan. They have spent over 40 years building an election winning machine. They have strength in depth in the State Houses. The Deep South is even more reliably Republican than the North East is Democrat, and has a rising population, not a falling or static one.

Anyone tracking the Upper Midwest will note the steady rise in the Republican voting tally in each successive Federal Election. As strong union cities like Detroit and Cleveland decline in population, the balance shifts towards the rural areas and exurbs, and places like Cincinnati, that are reliably Republican. This has powerful long term implications for the balance of power in the electoral college.

The turn of West Virginia to the Republican camp seems to be increasing, and, coupled with Tennessee, Kentucky and Arkansas, makes it increasingly hard for a Democratic candidate to build a winning electoral coalition.

Republicans were on their back heels in a far worse way when Richard Nixon resigned. Yet they fought back, to dominate the White House, the State Houses, and eventually the legislative.

What they need is an electable presidential candidate. I have no doubt they will find one. It may not be McCain, it may not be Giuliani, but if not this election, then the next one.

Posted by: Valuethinker on April 29, 2007 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK
... Maybe we need a plan to pull the nation together and start taking action to solve our real problems?... Stact at 9:20 AM
That sounds nice and Obama-ish, but when is the last time anyone has heard of a Republican showing a willingness to work with Democrats? Frankly, all the conversation from the right is of the smear&lie variety typified by the remarks of the party spokespersons like Cheney, McConnell, Boehner and Bush not to mention their foot soldiers in the Republican media.
... you believe we should live under the yoke of our robed masters on the Court, in the law schools and in acedemia. ...minion at 2:52 PM
At you making an anti-Catholic statement about the Supreme Court or complaining that they all are not right wing nut cases? Do you think that law should be applied as a matter of partisanship the way Bush, Rove and Gonzales are trying to do? You should try to see the world as it is not as your partisan media says it is. I seriously doubt that you have any real contact with academia or law school, but you certainly belong with your fellow RepubliConTarians. Posted by: Mike on April 29, 2007 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

This is consistant with an observation I made myself recently. Pop on over to Red State and look at the number of comments being left to their postings. They look like they are haveing pretty low participation to me. I see many postings with 20 or less comments even after a day or two.

Posted by: dave on April 29, 2007 at 4:53 PM | PERMALINK

minion - yes, how dare the Democrats support this quaint "rule of law"...

Posted by: tim on April 29, 2007 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

This whole conversation is nothing but an echo chamber. I haven't read one comment that even comes close to describing how I currently feel, how I would respond, or what I think about the current prospects for the Republican Party nomination. I sure don't know how Liberals or Democrats feel (nor would I even offer an opinion). Why do you people think you understand how Conservatives feel? Stop kidding yourselves. Support your party, your opinions, and your ideals. If you make sense, have faith that the majority of Americans will be swayed by your arguments. Is this asking too much?

Posted by: 1SG on April 29, 2007 at 6:02 PM | PERMALINK

1SG,

Last I looked we are all Americans. Many of he conservatives I know have forgotten that we have much more in common than they think.

Maybe that is the reason for all the Democratic gloating. We have been treated like some subhuman species by Conservatives for so long that we are enjoying your comeuppance. This too will pass, but you won't find the path back until you realize that leaders lead everybody, not just the 51% the can cobble together on election day. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country, and all that jazz. Until you conservatives learn that government is there for all of us, not just the party of the temporary majority you will be in the wilderness.

Posted by: Ron Byers on April 29, 2007 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINK

Watching this week's Bill Maher show, it struck me that the token conservative had this reflexive inability to concede even the most obvious points about the failures of the Iraq war and neoconservatism in general.

Seems funny to me...seems getting out of this circle of despair requires but a simple mea culpa for them--as in, ooops, yeah, we fucked up, and I'll admit as much.

Posted by: Sebastian-PGP on April 29, 2007 at 6:45 PM | PERMALINK

Ron Byers - turn on the local news...We had an incident at Ward Parkway with a shooter and a long gun. Three dead, including the gunman.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Supervising ten men, I have to say the best worker happens to be a staunch conservative.
He has been the most efficient, helpful one and has a great work ethic. It drives me nuts privately because he thinks Bush is great, always has an excuse for the man while thinking liberals distort the facts. But since the midterm elections he has quit listening to Hannity and Limbaugh, views them as too divisive. Now he usually leaves the room when the group talks politics whereas he used to engage himself.
I know he feels there is no suitable Republican candidate, and senses the tide has turned. He doesn't even bother to debate anymore.
Glenn Greenwald had a worthwhile piece on the sea change happening in this country.

Posted by: consider wisely always on April 29, 2007 at 7:11 PM | PERMALINK

consider wisely always:

Piss in the winger's coffee when he leaves the room next time. Trip him and throw water on him. Make his life a living hell.

The Grim Reaper

Posted by: The Grim Reaper on April 29, 2007 at 8:38 PM | PERMALINK

Blue Girl, its hard to miss the mall shooting.

I know it is tragic, and it happened in a mall, but why the national attention. Kansas City often has double or triple killings, though usually in other neighbors that are not nearly as "up-scale." I am still struggling with my thoughts on this event, and so far they aren't pretty. They certainly aren't ready for prime time.

Posted by: Ron Byers on April 29, 2007 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINK

BGRS,

From the report at the Star, it started out in a strange manner - Shot a policeman in the arm after being stopped - then proceded to the Mall where he, apparently, walked down the corridor firing randomly.

Debbie Schlussel will give us an ethnic update at any moment.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on April 29, 2007 at 8:54 PM | PERMALINK

Hmm, that's worrisome. If we don't have accurate information on the Rs how can we counter them?

Not having intelligence is a major problem.

Posted by: MNPundit on April 29, 2007 at 9:17 PM | PERMALINK

Ron & p3 - it apparently started with a murder earlier in the afternoon, then involved gunfire exchanged with a policeman, and then he took it to the (my!) mall.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on April 29, 2007 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

And let the coming debt collapse reduce the base to ruin and desperation, discredit the GOP for a decade or so. This is going to be great.

Posted by: let it come down on April 29, 2007 at 10:00 PM | PERMALINK

Look, how can I know how Republicans feel? They never bother to match their failures up with their expectations.

When you take one expectation (like pro-life) and never match it to results... This is what happens.

The party itself has no relation to voters' expectations.

I don't think these people are stupid... But they need to see if they've gone in the direction they wanted to, and work at the local level to make it happen. Right now, only the extremists are, and the moderates are willingly voting in those who have motivations which are not their own.

But then again, I'm not entirely sure how you can support pro-life and death penalty at the same time. Then again, they're both death sentences - one for many mothers and the other for victims of circumstance.

Posted by: Crissa on April 29, 2007 at 10:00 PM | PERMALINK

Crissa,

I'm not entirely sure how you can support pro-life and death penalty at the same time.

This question was facetious, right?

I mean it is obvious. Both positions reflect the true position - pro-punishment. "Pro-Life" is just a slogan to make it sound good.

But for many right-wingers anger, and especially righteous anger, is da bomb. Punish the criminals. Punish the slutty girls. Yeah baby, punish punish punish.

You ever see old pictures of hangings? You ever see who watched? It is the same thing.

Posted by: Tripp on April 30, 2007 at 11:41 AM | PERMALINK

And the best part is: There is not enough time, nor the inclination for the Repubs to change anything by the next elections.
All the Repubs have to run on in 2008 is George Bush and Kool-Aid!!

Get your hip waders patched, the Kool-Aid gonna be knee high and sticky.

Posted by: Mooser on April 30, 2007 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not entirely sure how you can support pro-life and death penalty at the same time.

This question was facetious, right?

I mean it is obvious. Both positions reflect the true position - pro-punishment. "Pro-Life" is just a slogan to make it sound good.
________________________

A professor of mine once told me that if I couldn't clearly understand the other side of an issue, I didn't have a full grasp of my own side.

The key for those who are both pro-life and pro-death penalty isn't punishment. It's guilt or innocence.

For such a person, the fetus is not guilty of anything except being conceived. Thus, if one believes the fetus has a soul (or will get one along the way), its innocence trumps the mother's wish to be rid of it, except in cases where the mother's life is at risk.

The person on death row, however, has been judged to be guilty and, under the idea that society has a right to defend itself, can be put to death. Mix the belief that the guilty was responsible for the conscious decisions that put them in jeopardy with a touch of "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" and, voila!, you have belief in the death penalty.

Neither belief is unassailable, but they are not in the least inconsistent. Now, if you want inconsistency, look at a couple of the standard exceptions in the pro-life stance. How can anyone be pro-life and make exceptions for rape and incest? In neither case is the fetus at fault, so why those two exceptions?

By the way, the "life of the mother" exception is not inconsistent. Even the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is warranted when the mother's life is in danger. The operating theory being that the mother is known to have a soul, while no one knows for a certainty when the fetus gains a soul. Therefore, the life of the known person can be protected at the expense of the merely potential person.

Posted by: trashhauler on April 30, 2007 at 11:46 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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