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May 5, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

GODLESS ROVIANISM....From an interview with Christopher Hitchens:

Has anyone in the Bush administration confided in you about being an atheist?
Well, I don't talk that much to them — maybe people think I do. I know something which is known to few but is not a secret. Karl Rove is not a believer, and he doesn't shout it from the rooftops, but when asked, he answers quite honestly. I think the way he puts it is, "I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith."

If this is true, it doesn't surprise me. In fact, I've never really thought Rove was all that committed a conservative, either. He strikes me more as a pure political operative, someone who could have signed up with either side if different opportunities had presented themselves when he was young. But he signed up with the conservative cause early, and once that happened he was the kind of person to jump in with both feet. I suspect that for Rove, red-meat conservatism is more a matter of doing whatever it takes to help your side win than it is a reflection of a real philosophical commitment.

Kevin Drum 12:50 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (74)

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Maybe, but it's also pretty clear that he gets off on manipulating people and situations and generally putting something over on people. He probably enjoyed for a long time that Bush was such an empty suit and he and Cheney were able to get him elected and even make him look like a leader for a while. It made his achievements all the greater. I don't think something like this would be possible in the Democratic Party, it doesn't have the same authoritarian streak.

Posted by: larry birnbaum on May 5, 2007 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

I like to think that Karl Rove's brand of pernicious truth evisceration would be roundly and soundly rejected by progressives and even the most conservative Democrats. The veneration of power for the sake of power produces a poisoned tree from which no good fruits may ripen. He could only have flourished as an apprentice to Segretti who schooled him in the dark arts.

Posted by: c4logic on May 5, 2007 at 1:10 PM | PERMALINK

"In fact, I've never really thought Rove was all that committed a conservative, either."

He is a very committed conservative in that he defends the existing status quo and powers that be no matter what critical analysis might suggest, no matter what is good for the country, and no matter what it takes. He is not that committed a conservative in that he doesn't believe in actually living up to the PR smokescreen of principles that Republican candidates spout during campaign season.

Posted by: Fred on May 5, 2007 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

Reality-based enterprises aren't welcoming environments for individuals whose skills are in deception. He never could have been a Democrat.

Posted by: rk on May 5, 2007 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

Just amazed that we went thru the thing about presidents a couple days ago and nobody opined about the Mark Hannas and Harry Doughertys backing up their respective empty suits.

Posted by: ThresherK on May 5, 2007 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

Without ascribing all virtues to Dems and all sins to his subset of Republicans, I have a hard time seeing him working in the same party as Maxine Waters, John Sweeney or Al Gore--even in the DLC or as an aide to Robert Rubin. As compromised as the Dems are, they are not a carbon copy of the GOP.

Posted by: Henry on May 5, 2007 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

Back during that controversy about the strange bulge / wire under Bush's suit jacket during a speech, I thought that people who said it was Rove on a microphone-earpiece setup were wearing tin-foil hats. Now I don't think it's so crazy anymore and I want to know what it was.

Posted by: Pat on May 5, 2007 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

Remember, the story that Rove had had his office get an actual Catholic Exorcism because it had once been used by Hillary? Did his she-devil expulsion squad know what Karl thought about God?

Or perhaps he is like the Emporer Constantine? Constantine made everybody else go Christian, but delayed his own Confirmation until just before he died. The delay was supposedly because he did believe in God but hoped that his technically incomplete conversion gave him enough moral wiggle room to keep killing people for National Security.

Posted by: wmcq on May 5, 2007 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

If President Bush's brain is atheistic, it must therefore be in his heart that he is a true believer. An atheistic true beleiver is bound to be a mass of hellish contradictions.

Posted by: blog on May 5, 2007 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

Is it any wonder why Bush administration policy is so schizophrenic?

Posted by: blog on May 5, 2007 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

I think Fred is right on. As far as I'm concerned he is like virtually everyone else in the Republican party. After all how many true conservatives are there in the Republican party?

Posted by: Lew on May 5, 2007 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

rove doesn't believe in anything other than getting his own way at any cost.

Posted by: mudwall jackson on May 5, 2007 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Christ said to his disciples, "By their actions, ye shall know them", referring to how to tell who was a believer.

Karl Rove's actions shout out very loudly to me that Mr. Rove is a godless heathen. Has anyone told Ann Coulter???

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on May 5, 2007 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

"I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith."

Wasn't Lucifer the first one to say that?

Posted by: frankly0 on May 5, 2007 at 1:37 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking of Rove and lacking principles, which either an atheist or believer can be like:

Breaking: RF Kennedy, Jr. Says USA Griffin Under Investigation
by 4Freedom
Fri May 04, 2007 at 08:25:13 PM PDT

Tonight in Montpelier, Vermont, Greg Palast announced that he received a phone call this evening from Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. that US Attorney replacement Timothy Griffin, Rove's former assistant, is under investigation for election fraud.

Daily Kos link

Posted by: Neil B. on May 5, 2007 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

"Karl Rove's actions shout out very loudly to me that Mr. Rove is a godless heathen. Has anyone told Ann Coulter???"

Hmmm. Has anyone inquired into Ms. Coulter's faith, for that matter?

Posted by: Lucy Beloungy on May 5, 2007 at 1:40 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, Kevin.

Of course Mr. Rove is a dedicated Christian, Kevin. Don't you think that the President would fire him if he wasn't.

Conservatives are different, better. They don't athiesm and differences just because they poke normal Americans in the eye. Conservatives embrace America, Liberals want to recreate it in there image. A tawdry image.

Posted by: egbert on May 5, 2007 at 1:44 PM | PERMALINK

He strikes me more as a pure political operative, someone who could have signed up with either side if different opportunities had presented themselves when he was young.

I'd say the same thing was true with his mentor Lee Harvey Atwater. Good catch, Kevin.

Posted by: LMichael on May 5, 2007 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Back during that controversy about the strange bulge / wire under Bush's suit jacket during a speech, I thought that people who said it was Rove on a microphone-earpiece setup were wearing tin-foil hats. Now I don't think it's so crazy anymore and I want to know what it was.

It was a bulletproof vest. Secret Service reluctantly confirmed it.

Posted by: shnooky on May 5, 2007 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

In other words, Rove is amoral. Oops. No one was supposed to find out.

Posted by: parrot on May 5, 2007 at 1:58 PM | PERMALINK

Leo Strauss; give people their opium if it'll maintain political order (as in, religion is the opiate of the masses). You don't have to be a person of faith to use faith to manipulate others.

Posted by: jg on May 5, 2007 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

".. He strikes me more as a pure political operative, someone who could have signed up with either side if different opportunities had presented themselves when he was young. "

My side would've shown him the door the first time he tried to win a fight by spreading falsehoods about an opponent.

Posted by: poliwog on May 5, 2007 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

Rove is emblematic of careerism at its worst. He probably would have made a great prosecutor.

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on May 5, 2007 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

Hasn't there previously been reports about how Rove and other WH staff in private speak disparagingly of people of faith?

Posted by: Disputo on May 5, 2007 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

.. That is if your measure of a prosector's success is number of convictions.

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on May 5, 2007 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

My side would've shown him the door the first time he tried to win a fight by spreading falsehoods about an opponent.

Define side.

Rove got his political dirty tricks start in Chicago by stealing letterhead from Dem Senator Alan Dixon's campaign office in Chicago and inviting homeless people to a fake party. I'm confident the Dem machine in Chicago would love to have Rove on their team.

Posted by: Disputo on May 5, 2007 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

Why is any of this a surprise? He's Lee Atwater reincarnated. Lee Atwater claimed not to be a racist, and was apparently sincere (eg he spent plenty of time playing blues with black musicians) but had no qualms about turning the GOP into the party that welcomed and encouraged racists.

I've no idea what goes through the minds of people like this. Obviously they are pure evil, but it's a kind of essentialized evil. Even your contract killer or mafia boss or whatever has motivations you can kinda understand. But what sort of motivation leads a man who doesn't even believe in certain principles to tear his country apart, and with not much apparent gain to himself?

Posted by: Maynard Handley on May 5, 2007 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

"I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith."

Interesting choice of words. I guess I too am not fortunate enough, yet I certainly don't feel unfortunate.

It also would surprise me not at all if there were many politicians who embrace religion publically but really don't buy it privately. I have even thought so of Bush. I certainly don't believe for a moment that Cheney really believes.

Posted by: E Henry Thripshaw on May 5, 2007 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

egbert: "Liberals want to recreate it in there image. A tawdry image."

Okay, now we know you're (excuse me: your) a parody. Nice one, "egbert".

Posted by: Kenji on May 5, 2007 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

This is old news.

"...Rove's self avowed agnosticism are bound to infuriate conservative Christians..." 365gay.com, -09-05-06 http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/09/090506rove.htm

The silence is deafening, isn't it?

Posted by: EvilPoet on May 5, 2007 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

"what sort of motivation leads a man who doesn't even believe in certain principles to tear his country apart, and with not much apparent gain to himself?"

My answer starts here: I think Rove is absolutely enthralled with the power of PR, producing opinion through manipulating perception.

That's an inherently authoritarian enterprise, so he's done the logical thing by using the Rethuglican party as his base.

Beyond that, he wants to do Goebbels one better, as a professional. A big part of him wants to prove that it *can* happen here, in Sinclair's words, if you just have the courage to throw aside normal decency, accepted practices, settled expectations, etc.

It's partly just an intellectual game to him, working out a theory. But it's also about bringing in the dough, and it's about being the seen/unseen puppeteer behind the suits, and on like that. He's not only putting things over on the public, but also on the politicians he manipulates. He loves the sense that he's much smarter than anybody else, anywhere.

He's a deeply sick man.

Posted by: Altoid on May 5, 2007 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

He's also an ugly man, basking in what he sees as reflected glory--although it's actually just more ugliness, of course.

Posted by: Kenji on May 5, 2007 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

I view him as a Thomas Cromwell to King Henry VIII.

But for an Anne of Cleves moment and King Shrub appoint another inexperienced headsman.

Yes, face away from the City of Washington, Karl, face away.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on May 5, 2007 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

I don't really care one way or another but *why are we giving any credence to anything that drunken fool Hitchens says about anyone*?

Posted by: Larry on May 5, 2007 at 3:48 PM | PERMALINK

K.R. is the ultimate American. Willing to go to any lengths to achieve any goal, no matter the cost. There is no scale of morality, fairness, or shame in this mans gestalt. He is a Republican.

Posted by: bobbywally on May 5, 2007 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

Karl Rove is a nihilist.
his joy comes from the destruction of others. The smear is his first weapon, even if it arracks something supposedly sacred--like heroism in war.
In a way, W is his perfect foil: a petulant privileged fratboy portrayed as a visionary courageous leader. A figure that makes a dark joke of the presidency. Rove likes it: iot makes it all the more satisfying to crush others with such a banal implement.
Shorter Karl Rove: "I showed 'em."

Posted by: pbg on May 5, 2007 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

mhr: "Wind me up and I repeat dumb talking points about the 'Democrat Party'. I am very convincing spewing about the compassion of beautiful Karl Rove while thousands die in Iraq. Hah! I am very convincing... I am very convincing... I am very convincing... I am very convincing... (creak) I am very convincing... (creak) I am very convincing...

...(creak) More oil, please."

Posted by: Kenji on May 5, 2007 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans must have their priorities, after all, what kind of a world would it be if we didn't have values?

The National Rifle Association is urging the Bush administration to withdraw its support of a bill that would prohibit suspected terrorists from buying firearms.

Posted by: cld on May 5, 2007 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

on the other mhr, as republicans drift farther and farther to the right, they become more cynical. they use religion but they don't believe nor follow its precepts. there's hate in their hearts. just look at rove's campaign to defeat an alabama supreme court judge a few years back.

Posted by: mudwall jackson on May 5, 2007 at 4:10 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, muddy, the secret to the Rovian smear is always go after the strength. The judge was a well-loved advocate of children's rights, so he became a pedophile overnight. Kerry was a coward, Max Cleland is Osama, etc--shot that Lee Atwater would have balked at is butter for Rove's toast. (And isn't that a pleasant image.)

By the way, mhr isn't a real person. No one can be that stupid.

Posted by: Kenji on May 5, 2007 at 4:14 PM | PERMALINK

I think Rove had to be a Republican. The intense drive to win at all costs, skullduggery, and immorality are all uniquely Republican traits.

Posted by: gregor on May 5, 2007 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

I disagree that Rove would have been able to work his evil inside the Democratic party. He is an authoritarian. Authoritarianism is strictly the purvue of the GOP. His basic disposition would chaffe against the grain within the more amorphous, more free-flowing Democratic party.

His lack of religious pollution would otherwise be a plus but it is utterly wiped out as a virtue by his authoritarianistic instincts.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on May 5, 2007 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

This is a really huge deal, is it not? The president's only remaning support comes from conservative Christians, yet his closest adviser and confidante is an atheist.

People like James Carville and Paul Begala and Katrina vanden Heuvel need to start casually referring to Rove as an atheist on every talk show they are on.

Part of me wants this as a means of destroying Rove's influence but a bigger part of me (also as an atheist) is very uncomfortable with this. I want to get religious nonsenses out of politics as far as possible. Religious belief and ludicrous professions of religiosity have far to much prominence in out politics and means nothing (but portends the worst for our future). Bringing in Rove's atheism does two things that are plain wrong: continues the religious nonsense in politics and impugns atheists unfairly.

Let's NOT bring out his religious (or in this case, lack of religiosity) beliefs. Find another weapon...like the results of his influence. THAT should be enough to destroy him and the GOP.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on May 5, 2007 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK


egbert: "Ah, Kevin. Of course Mr. Rove is a dedicated Christian, Kevin. Don't you think that the President would fire him if he wasn't."

Ah, egbert.

You are truly a stubbornly eternal right-wing optimist, whose poltical musings have all the intellectual heft of a six-year-old child still insisting to his more worldly schoolmates that there really is a Santa Claus.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on May 5, 2007 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

"I want to get religious nonsenses out of politics as far as possible."

Yeah, and I'd like to make the fascist wingnuts on the public airwaves have to comply with reasonable licensing requirements for broadcasting.

Those worms are never going back in that can without making a real mess of both the worms and the can. I'm ready to get my hands dirty with that, and making a huge deal out of Karl Rove's atheism doesn't bother this atheist very much at all.

Let's show these tinpot God-botherers what really happens when you insist on mixing politics and religion. They deserve to eat a little of that medicine.

Posted by: s9 on May 5, 2007 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

I'm glad to see that this story is starting to get some press. It has been lighting up the atheist blogosphere for awhile now. More evidence about Rove's beliefs (or lack thereof) and a discussion of the implications of this report can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/3c3hfq

Posted by: vjack on May 5, 2007 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

Rove's like the Clintons -- the kind of dweebs who gravitate toward student government, where the issues are ludicrous, and the ONLY thing that really matters is winning -- and then doling out the favors and the cash.

Posted by: sglover on May 5, 2007 at 6:03 PM | PERMALINK

For what it's worth, on 13 July 2005, Jim VandeHei reported in the Washington Post that Rove attends a church -- the same one attended by Joe and Valerie Wilson (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/12/AR2005071200093_pf.html).

Harper's reported on 2 Oct 2003 (behind a subscription wall) that Valerie Plame and Rover attend the same Episcopal church (http://www.harpers.org/subjects/ProtestantFaith/SubjectOf/Event).

Posted by: JB on May 5, 2007 at 6:17 PM | PERMALINK

It just goes to show the dangerous pitfalls of Staussian historical myth-making of the kind advocated by the neocons of the Zelikow school. It boxes one into all sorts of insane contradictions. The Manichean view of the world which they propagae for the consumption of the masses constrains them to clothe themselves as angels of light. If the corrrupt underbelly of their people and policies is ever revealaed you can imagine what titanic forces are unleashed in the mass consciousness when they review their historical myths and associate such angels of lifgt with you know which original angel. Then the mythical dragon that they unleashed and thought they could control will begin to devour itself.

Posted by: blog on May 5, 2007 at 6:18 PM | PERMALINK

"...It's partly just an intellectual game to him, working out a theory. But it's also about bringing in the dough, and it's about being the seen/unseen puppeteer behind the suits, and on like that. He's not only putting things over on the public, but also on the politicians he manipulates. He loves the sense that he's much smarter than anybody else, anywhere.

He's a deeply sick man."
Posted by: Altoid on May 5, 2007 at 3:04 PM

Astute observation. This is what happens when you elect incompetents-you get the handlers to rush in and fill the vacuum to satisfy their own twisted egos. It seems the individuals who profit from political celebrity such as Rove are becoming increasingly pathological with time. Now more than ever we need politicians that can stand on their own two feet.

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on May 5, 2007 at 6:22 PM | PERMALINK

I think you're right about Rove. What's more, I think Rush Limbaugh is made of the same, uh, stuff.

An interview with science writer Natalie Angier just now reveals that all life in its most basic form resembles snot. I'd say that works for Rove and Limbaugh, too.

Posted by: PW on May 5, 2007 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

Late, as ever.

If this is all based on "I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith" then he's as likely to be agnostic as atheist so I wouldn't jump to the assumption you all seem to.

=====================
It was a bulletproof vest. Secret Service reluctantly confirmed it.

Posted by: shnooky on May 5, 2007 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Reluctantly because it was a secret or because they were told to say that.

Hard to misunderestimate this lieing crew.

Posted by: notthere on May 5, 2007 at 6:48 PM | PERMALINK

"I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith."

This from the guy who just published a book entitled "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything".

Posted by: Lucy on May 5, 2007 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry, WRONG NUMBER. Clearly I caught Christopher Hitchens's cooties while watching his drunken appearance on The Daily Show and am plunged into confusion.

But since someone plaintively inquired why a man might tear apart his country without any apparent motivation, I'd say perhaps Rove is something of a sadist. The abuse of power is its own reward.

Posted by: Lucy on May 5, 2007 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, you need to read more orcinus. You're intuition is right, but not fleshed out. The right way to analyze this is:

Karl rove is a high social dominance orientation and right wing authoratarian personality type. The combination of these two types of personality types results in certain types of behavior like we see with rove. You should look into orcinus. Your understanding of the right wing would increase a lot.

Posted by: TomK on May 5, 2007 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINK
Rove's like the Clintons …sglover at 6:03 PM
Hardly. There's nothing as sleazy as any of Rove's daily activities in the Clinton record: No Hatch Act violations, no corrupting the DoJ, etc. Desire to win? Sure, what pol doesn’t try to win, but it is the means utilized that demonstrates one's character. Rove's like Atwater: a scuzzbag. Posted by: Mike on May 5, 2007 at 7:48 PM | PERMALINK

Let's hope that this experience with this administration forever discredits the fantasy based myth-making style of governance imposed by megalomaniacs selfishly infauated with their own decadent egos and idealogies versus common sense fact-based policy prescription type governance. The individual should be left to create its own myths through the inquiry of its free conscience where it can harm or benefit only itself.

Posted by: blog on May 5, 2007 at 8:02 PM | PERMALINK

For that matter, Bush isn't much of a Christian either. I have told this story on this blog before, about what Bush said to Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack when they were both at the State Governor's convention, while they were both were governors. Vilsack who is a devout Catholic, was walking through the lobby of the hotel they were staying and it was a Sunday morning. Bush bumped into Vilsack in the lobby and asked him where he was going. When Vilsack responded that he was going to church, Bush looked at him cockeyed and said, "You don't believe that shit, do you?" Take it for what it is worth...

Bush being a so-called "born again Christian" is a complete fiction.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on May 5, 2007 at 9:06 PM | PERMALINK

"I suspect that for Rove, red-meat conservatism is more a matter of doing whatever it takes to help your side win than it is a reflection of a real philosophical commitment."

Opportunistic yes, but it is about control, power and money. That is what truley separates die hard Repugs from liberals.

For Repugs, like Rove, it is all about power and domination, the rich getting richer and the rest be fucked.

Posted by: jim on May 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINK

He strikes me more as a pure political operative, someone who could have signed up with either side if different opportunities had presented themselves when he was young.

Karl Rove told the story of his childhood to Thomas Edsall, who recounts it in a TNR piece, "Karl Rove's Juggernaut". If Rove is to be believed, an unstable childhood accounts for his gravitation to political conservativism and the long journey to becoming a national abomination.

Posted by: Lucy on May 5, 2007 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

"You don't believe that shit, do you?" Take it for what it is worth...

Bush being a so-called "born again Christian" is a complete fiction.

If Bush really does think this way then the cynicism of his statement that God told him to invade Iraq is profoundly disturbing.

Posted by: blog on May 5, 2007 at 11:17 PM | PERMALINK

Bush being a so-called "born again Christian" is a complete fiction.
Strongly agree.

Posted by: JS on May 6, 2007 at 12:32 AM | PERMALINK

He strikes me more as a pure political operative, someone who could have signed up with either side if different opportunities had presented themselves
Strongly disagree.

There are two kinds of Republicans, very different from each other. The first is the religious, mostly southern, mostly low-income and uneducated kind. The second, to which Rove belongs, consists of people who are educated, elitist, secular, who have little use for the little guy -- except as a voter for their cause. You'll find the former in poor towns and neighborhoods all over the country, especially the South. You'll find the latter in country clubs, board rooms, local and federal government, and many media establishments.

Posted by: JS on May 6, 2007 at 12:39 AM | PERMALINK

There's faith and religion. Look at Einstein's explanation of his personal sense of the eternal. Then ask Lou Sheldon to put it in his own words, and you'll probably hear the things that Rove says at night before he goes to bed. I doubt either one thinks there's a chance he'll go to Hell; once there, I doubt either one would recognize it.
As for Hitchens, I don't believe a word he says and I don't believe he believes a word he says either, other than the part about him being the smartest/coolest guy in the studio.

Posted by: Steve Paradis on May 6, 2007 at 12:55 AM | PERMALINK

Pardon me if I don't put much stock in a guy that backed and still backs the Iraq war, who still obsesses on Bill Clinton, Satan's Spawn, when given the opportunity and who somehow extended his anti-theism into an obsessive hatred of Mother Teresa. He has a long way to go to restore credibility.

Posted by: secularhuman on May 6, 2007 at 1:46 AM | PERMALINK

From whistleblower David Kuo's book describing the hypocrisy of the white house with regard to religion and how they portray themselves as Christians:

Every other White House office was up and running. The faith-based initiative still operated out of the nearly vacant transition offices.

Three days later, a Tuesday, Karl Rove summoned [Don] Willett [a former Bush aide from Texas who initially shepharded the program] to his office to announce that the entire faith-based initiative would be rolled out the following Monday. Willett asked just how — without a director, staff, office, or plan — the president could do that. Rove looked at him, took a deep breath, and said, “I don’t know. Just get me a f—ing faith-based thing. Got it?” Willett was shown the door.

Posted by: consider wisely always on May 6, 2007 at 2:29 AM | PERMALINK

The National Rifle Association is urging the Bush administration to withdraw its support of a bill that would prohibit suspected terrorists from buying firearms.

Of course they are. Soon as a Dem is elected POTUS, the NRA's hard core supporters will revert to their 90s behavior and reestablish their terrorist training camps in the Michigan woods and the Texas panhandle.

Posted by: Disputo on May 6, 2007 at 3:17 AM | PERMALINK
I want to get religious nonsenses out of politics as far as possible.

Yes, let's. And the first step is to expose the GOP's waving around of religious faith for the hypocritical ploy it really is.

But what it does is indirectly stipulate that atheists are unfit or unsuited (or unsuitable) for office. There is a fine line here between making sure the redstate religious nutbags understand that they've been had and going a step further and somehow (unintentionally, perhaps) suggesting that atheists cannot be trusted in office.

It is HOW you go about informing the idiot Redstaters. Do so without making is seem atheists are second class citizens.

Posted by: Praedor on May 6, 2007 at 10:15 AM | PERMALINK

The Rovian Inquisition. His greatest weapon is manipulation. Strike that! His greatest weapons are fear, manipulation, and humiliation.

No one could have expected the Spanish Inquisition led by the evil embodiment of the Pillsbury Dough Boy.
He is an awful person; an anti-Christ even to an atheist or agnostic. And yet he manipulates the devout even as he mocks them. The failures of this administration began when he was selected as part of the campaign.

Posted by: Sparko on May 6, 2007 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

The failures of this administration began when he [Rove] was selected as part of the campaign.

It goes deeper than that. George Bush is a creation of Karl Rove. Rove "adopted" Bush many years ago, and brought him into politics, got him elected governor, then made him run for president. It was Rove who selected Bush -- rather than the other way around.

Posted by: JS on May 6, 2007 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

Rove lies about everything. He's lieing about being an infidel so that the republican't hatred of all things non-christian gets rove's deceptions heaped upon them. As the republican't party learns more and more of the evil that rove did, they'll just say "yep, that's what athiests do when they get in power, guess we have to kill more."

Posted by: Peter on May 6, 2007 at 8:50 PM | PERMALINK

I dunno. That sounds too complicated, even for them.

Posted by: Kenji on May 7, 2007 at 1:53 AM | PERMALINK

Yes, muddy, the secret to the Rovian smear is always go after the strength. The judge was a well-loved advocate of children's rights, so he became a pedophile overnight.

Posted by: Kenji on May 5, 2007 at 4:14 PM

Well, based upon a certain GOP congressman from Florida who shared both those traits...

There are two kinds of Republicans, very different from each other. The first is the religious, mostly southern, mostly low-income and uneducated kind. The second, to which Rove belongs, consists of people who are educated, elitist, secular, who have little use for the little guy -- except as a voter for their cause. You'll find the former in poor towns and neighborhoods all over the country, especially the South. You'll find the latter in country clubs, board rooms, local and federal government, and many media establishments.

Posted by: JS on May 6, 2007 at 12:39 AM

Which is why Edwards would be the best choice as Democratic nominee. He, far more so than H. Clinton or Obama, can tap into the first part of that GOP southern vote and capture a few crucial swing states. Edwards can point out to the first group just how the second is manipulating them.

Posted by: Vincent on May 7, 2007 at 9:49 AM | PERMALINK

Oh great, that just gives them something with which to disavow his corruption and manipulation.

I hate having anything in common with that incubus.

Posted by: Kija on May 7, 2007 at 6:32 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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