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Tilting at Windmills

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May 25, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

QUOTE OF THE DAY....From a federal judge in the sentencing of Animal Liberation Front arsonist Kevin Tubbs to 12 years in jail:

"Fear and intimidation can play no part in changing the hearts and minds of people in a democracy."

Noted without comment.

Kevin Drum 12:33 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (24)

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Comments

so i guess that means Al Qaeda and other terrorists are no longer a threat to David Greogory's children?

Posted by: Sean Thomas on May 25, 2007 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

Fear and intimidation can play no part in changing the hearts and minds of people in a democracy.

Wise words Kevin. These are similar to what George W Bush said when he explained why we need to maintain troops in Iraq and stay the course. Only by eliminating the fear and intimidation of the terrorists can we allow democracy to flourish in Iraq.

Link

"As democracy takes hold in Iraq, the terrorists and Saddamists will continue to use violence. They know that as democracy takes root in Iraq, their hateful ideology will suffer a devastating blow, and the Middle East will have a clear example of freedom, prosperity, and hope."

Posted by: Al on May 25, 2007 at 12:45 PM | PERMALINK

This should be amended to its proper form:

"Fear and intimidation can play no part in changing the hearts and minds of people in a democracy unless you are a Republican politician or pundit - then it's OK"

Posted by: Mark-NC on May 25, 2007 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

"As democracy takes hold in Iraq, the terrorists and Saddamists will continue to use violence. They know that as democracy takes root in Iraq, their hateful ideology will suffer a devastating blow, and the Middle East will have a clear example of freedom, prosperity, and hope."

The underlying premise is that there is something that the US can do to help democracy take hold in Iraq. Like all arguments that are based on false premises, the argument itself is false. The true fact is that the US occupation of Iraq has become a major impediment to the development of democracy in Iraq.

But the argument is clearly offered as a straw man to deflect attention from the fact that Bush and his cronies have used fear and intimidation to implement a string of wrong headed policies in the US, the most disasterous of which has been the invasion of Iraq.

Posted by: majun on May 25, 2007 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

Just curious...Who appointed this judge?

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on May 25, 2007 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

Who appointed this judge?

Clinton

Posted by: cleek on May 25, 2007 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks Cleek - I just discovered this think called "teh Google" and by golly, there was her Wikipedia page! What'll they think of next???

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on May 25, 2007 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

My steel tarrifs just cost us 10,000 jobs??? Dang! Andy - get "Ashy Boy" on the phone and raise that Nat'l Threat Level to orange.

Posted by: wishIwuz2 on May 25, 2007 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

Two words: Erik Rudolf!

Posted by: Viola on May 25, 2007 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

Saddamist? Saddamist? What the hell's a Saddamist? Are we fighting Saddamists, too? Will the Saddamists follow us home?

Sheesh.

Posted by: shnooky on May 25, 2007 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

Orwell on May 25, 2007 at 1:15 PM:

Fear and intimdation do play a part in a democracy when that country has Republicans in power who only value power and corporate profits.

Fear and intimidation also play a part in a democracy when certain parts of the population continue sacrificing bodies and mortgaging our future on a so-called war based on bad faith and vaguely defined goals.

Fear and intimidation do play a part in a democracy when a large group considers what Fox News vomits forth to be truthful.

There...fixed it for ya, Orwie!

Posted by: grape_crush on May 25, 2007 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

This begs the question, what does the Judge think does indeed play a part in changing the hearts and minds of people in a democracy? Deception? Disinformation campaigns? Secrecy? Talking to them like they are 3rd graders? Is a democracy made by a simple majority?

Posted by: c4logic on May 25, 2007 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Remember that this is the ultimate purpose of the war on terror. The Republican government intends to habituate the American public to the use of strong-arm tactics, torture, draconian punishment, surveillance and non-existent rights as a part of fighting terrorism. The use of a foreign enemy was only the first step. The second step was to bring the necessity of such actions into domestic life: TSP-Patriot Act. The third step was to get a substantial number of Americans to accept domestic opponents of the administration were just as dangerous as Al Quaeda.

We will see various sectors of the American people wake up to the realities of a corporate owned, religious right Republican government that was tilted to a small, rich arristocracy of the Republican elite. As those concerned about the environment, lack of health insurance, unionization and other causes become publicly vociferous or moved to violent action; the government will respond with its dictatorial powers. Do not let the current loss of popularity fool you. Why do you think that the Republican elite concentrated on remaking the judiciary, Justice Dept. and other career civil service positions into strong-holds of a fifth column should they lose control of the executive branch? Short of de-Republication of the judiciary and civil service, the Republican elite has created a long term threat to our democracy.

Posted by: JMOHR on May 25, 2007 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

Fear and intimidation won't work. But actually bombing them to change their hearts and minds, well that's something that works, obviously.

Posted by: Joshua Norton on May 25, 2007 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

Obviously them eco-terrirsts should have used "Shock and Awe" instead of "Fear and Intimidation".

After all, shock and Awe is a method approved by the US government for converting all them "Saddamists" into "Republicans"... not that I can see a lot of difference to begin with.

Posted by: Buford on May 25, 2007 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Read a touch more about US District Court Judge Ann Aiken, JMOHR. Does not compute with your theory.

Now, go back and help firebomb Elizabeth Miller Library at the Dub, throw rocks through artist's studios and spray paint graffiti on their walls in Portland, firebomb Starbuck's down on Division in Portland. Disrupt peaceful demonstrations by many, with your black hooded friends of a few.

Screw the Repugs and screw the eco-terrorists - two peas in the same pod.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on May 25, 2007 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

hey cleek, do you think this lends credence to the bipartisanship = date rape hypothesis?

Unless I read her Wikipedia entry wrong, she was appointed first by Reagan, or BushI. Good old Bill, promoting Republican appointees who've demonstrated competence.

ttP - I'm not sure that the anarchists and eco-"terrorists" are the same people. Could be, I admit, but I think you're confusing Al Qaeda with Hamas, so to speak.
I think you'll find that more eco-"terrorists" and their non-property-destroying allies have been victims of physical violence than perpetrators.
There is a significant difference between blowing up(or burning down) an unoccupied logging skidder than an occupied passenger car.

Posted by: kenga on May 25, 2007 at 4:11 PM | PERMALINK

"Fear and intimidation can play no part in changing the hearts and minds of people in a democracy."

newsflash: they do

Posted by: david in norcal on May 25, 2007 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINK

kenga,

She was appointed by Clinton in 98. However, in the early 80s, she was a fundraiser and worked with then Rep Kulongoski, who is now the Democratic Governor of Oregon. And, until appointed a Federal Judge by Clinton, she was a judge in Lane County, Oregon.

Kind of hard to tell the difference between the anarchists and eco-terrorists in Eugene and Portland. As an avid gardener, I was really pissed when they fire bombed the University of Washington's Horticulture Center, including the Elizabeth Miller Library. They had gone after some professor who works there because of some perceived genetic experiments. They destroyed a wonderful gardening center - One by and for plants people, you know the Dirty Hands types, not the Clean Hands Yuppie types who only buy Monrovia and have "Manuel plant them, next to the ones he planted for them, yesterday."

And that Starbucks on Division was just down from the Wannabe Wobblies coffee House, the Red and Black. They even tried to stop a New Seasons Market, which specializes in organic and locally grown sustainable foods, from opening - Too close to their favorite "Peoples Co-Op".

Then tend to blend with one another.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on May 25, 2007 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

"Fear and intimidation can play no part in changing the hearts and minds of people in a democracy."

Depends on who is scaring who, maybe. Looked up
Georges Sorel at Wikipedia today in a different context.

"Sorel's was a voluntarist Marxism: he rejected those Marxists who believed in inevitable and evolutionary change, emphasising instead the importance of will and preferring direct action. (He may even have coined the phrase, "direct action".) These approaches included general strikes, boycotts, sabotage, and constant disruption of capitalism with the goal being to achieve worker control over the means of production"

"Sorel believed the "energizing myth" of the general strike would serve to enforce solidarity, class consciousness and revolutionary 鬡n amongst the working-class. The "myth" that the Fascists would appeal to, however, was that of the state."

I suspect the "eco-terrorists" are a little vanguardist for my tastes, but that isn't the worst thing. But with 80% of Democrats favoring withdrawal from Iraq and 14 Democratic Senators voting for a timeline(against the supplemental), perhaps some different forms of political action deserve consideration.

Posted by: bob mcmanus on May 25, 2007 at 4:42 PM | PERMALINK

Of course fear and intimidation can play no role. That's what bombs and guns are for.

Posted by: Anon on May 26, 2007 at 2:58 AM | PERMALINK

yes, you must imprison all the terrorists! hahahahahahahahah!

Posted by: jorge luis posada on May 26, 2007 at 10:54 AM | PERMALINK

Democracy My Ass; Bush is preparing to declare himself a full fledged Dictator with these new Presidential Directives NSPD-51 and HSPD-20

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

All it will take is anything Bush Deems an Emergency even if it does not occur in America itself..

Where is the outrage to this huge threat great than al-Qaeda could ever be to Our Republic..?

Why isn't the media even mentioning this danger to our way of life in America..?

Why is there no call for immediate Impeachment..?

Where are the demo-rats are they in on this, is this why Karl Rove secretly went in the Congressional building..?

All it would take is the Bush and bin-Laden families arranging another attack upon American and there goes the American experiment..

Also the Supreme Court now belongs tot he Federalist society which wants to end the three equal branches so they Scalia and Alito and Thomas and Roberts and Kennedy will support this grand treason and coup..

Happy Memorial Day..!

Posted by: TJ Colatrella on May 27, 2007 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

There's the active link, I hope to these treasonous documents signed by G.W. Bush May 9th 2007..

WE ARE BETRAYED...

Posted by: TJ Colatrella on May 27, 2007 at 2:12 PM | PERMALINK
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