Kevin, you might want to contrast this article with the one written recently in the Nation. Too many differences to go into here, but it describes a party leadership that is more fearful of the 4th estate, primarily because of broader demands that might result from the freedom to pursue environmental whistleblowing.

Not an issue.

Greenhouse caps are inforced with a usage fee on our atmoshpere, collected via trade taxes.

Governments who cannot figure out how to charge other nations for the use of atmosphere are pretty damn stupid governments.

Do Chinese citizens get a gas tax break when they travel by car in the U.S.? No, because our government has actually figured that one out. So why would a Chinese person get free access to the co2 carrying capacity of our atmosphere? Only one reason, U.S. politicians are as stupid as gnats.

You mean the "free market" isn't the answer to every problem on the face of the earth? You mean that government regulation may actually have a place to play in ensuring that economic growth is done in a healthy way? I am truly shocked!

[P.S. Don't tell a conservative this. Their head might explode!!]

If Karl Rove had been successful we would be well on our way to one party rule, similar to the way the Chinese operate. Fortunately he wasn't.

It sounds like the next reforms the Communists need to introduce democracy.

(1) China is basically the US prior to the clean air and clean water act on steroids. Dead rivers, silent springs, intense smog and heavy metal aerosols, cities of people coughing and spitting. Taking action before the local river catches fire again is pretty different from taking action on global warming.

(2) This should prove to be a human rights bonanza. When they get an oversight agency in place, expect quite a few public executions for individuals linked to point sources of pollution.

Good book to read: "The River Runs Black" by Elizabeth Economy. Say all this coming in 2004. Runaway development in the provinces, despite attempts by the central government to curb the worst-polluting industries. Its Dick CHeney's world, Chinese-style.

....To deal with this predicament, Beijing has invited help from an unexpected corner: civil society. Citizen groups can help spread information, provide oversight, and put some pressure on local authorities.

Unexpected?
Cultural Revolution II, Carbon-Neutral Boogaloo...

Central governments in large countries do not function efficiently. So, the grass roots is the answer. Bob's your uncle, Dude.

"It sounds like the next reforms the Communists need to introduce democracy."

Intoning - It sounds to me that the next reforms the Americans need to introduce would be democracy.-

Just trying it out to see how is sounds.......

Two of my friends, husband and wife, went to study abroad in China for a couple of years. They came back after only a handful of months. The pollution was so bad, it had made the wife seriously ill and she was having trouble breathing. If she had stayed, she might've died. The husband had health problems of his own. They said you couldn't believe how polluted the place was until you lived there.

I have to believe that for the Chinese, who live in this pollution and sometimes, die from it, it's got to be an issue.

Interesting ironies there. Note that Americans consider public input and right to exert pressure a major element of "democracy" and proof that the nation is not a pure dictatorship anymore - yet conservative "limited government" forces in the US and elsewhere hate for the public to have such powers.

Interesting ironies there. Note that Americans consider public input and right to exert pressure a major element of "democracy" and proof that the nation is not a pure dictatorship anymore - yet conservative "limited government" forces in the US and elsewhere hate for the public to have such powers.
Posted by: Neil B.

It's all about the balance, Neil. Conservatives don't hate for the government to have such powers, they hate for the government to have too much of such powers. The argument is about what constitutes "too much".

RSM: Good point. But more to my point, how much should be literally in the hands of the public somehow, and how much in "the government"?

1. So, whatever Albert Gore does about the so-called global warming is going nowhere, huh?

2. Maybe Albert Gore, the so-called green senator, flying jets, living in a small, small, very small apartment, financially biased with a rock-star status, should run for the Presidency of China. Both are socialist. Both like to redistribute wealth. Both control the speech. Both are anti-freedom. Both preach how people should live. Hmmm...naaah,

Just one point, Kevin: NGOs don't have any enforcement powers. So, until Beijing -- or regional governments -- actually step to the plate, we're stil at square one.

Still the same old China, though, in some ways.

China food safety head executed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6286698.stm

But seriously. James? Try reading some books. Start with a dictionary and look up "socialism." Al Gore is no socialist, and neither is China much anymore.

China will not get around to real pollution control until its wealth is on par with that of the United States of the 1960s and 1970s

As for carbon dioxide production, China will be in no position to do anything about its increasing emissions for some decades. Reducing pollution from burning coal will come sooner, much sooner.

Ah, Kevin.

GLobal warming is an imaginary figmant of a liberal socialist's brain, a new con game to try to socialize the global economy and have everyone be athiestic automatons. If you notice, only liberals quack about global warming.

RSM: Good point. But more to my point, how much should be literally in the hands of the public somehow, and how much in "the government"?
Posted by: Neil B.

Well, my answer would be "as little as possible, but no less." I know it doesn't answer your question, but it does set out a basic philosophy.

Problem with China, they penalize the bribe takers, not the bribe givers.

China food safety head executed
Posted by: thersites

Looks like China is way ahead of us on this (executing corrupt government officials), too.

ah egbert If what you say is true then I guess only liberals have a brain and that would make you some kind of subspecies.
For reference check a common map of grow zone areas for gardeners. Gardeners can be liberal,conservative or people who just don't give a fuck about politics.The grow zones in the U.S. have shifted north 1 zone in only 15 years. This is an unusual occurrence that has never happened since they started keeping this mapping system.
Although this is not completely damning evidence supporting global warming postulaates it is certainly one in a growing pile of evidense supporting the facts that the global climate is getting warmer.
Now you Egbert may choose not to beleive all the evidence but sooner or later you'll have to take your head out of the sand and smell the coffee.

Egbert, please take your comments to talk radio or some other arena for broadcasting nonsense. You have no clue about climate change or probably economics.

china's got a mouse problem:

2 Billion Chinese Mice Overrun Lake Area
BEIJING, Jul. 9, 2007(AP) People living in communities surrounding a large shallow lake have been overrun by field mice after floodwaters drove the rodents out of islands on the lake, state media reported Monday.

The mouse invasion began on June 23 when the Yangtze River flooded, raising the water level in central China's Dongting Lake and submerging mouse holes on lake islands, the official Xinhua News Agency said.

Now, an estimated 2 billion mice are ravaging crops in 22 counties around the lake, and authorities were rushing to construct walls and ditches to keep the rodents out. Residents have killed more than 2.3 million field mice _ or 90 tons of the rodents, Xinhua said.

In Hunan province's Yiyang County, a ditch along the lakeshore was filled with mice. Residents were using clubs and shovels to beat them to death, while others scooped the furry animals out using fishing nets.

Mice have already damaged dikes and ruined crops in areas where authorities were slow to build walls and ditches, Xinhua said.

The rodent problem was expected to worsen as more floods were forecast for the upper reaches of the Yangtze River and Dongting Lake.

Kevin, what happened to you during the vacation? Whatever small amount of fire you had seems to be missing. Too much wankery and moderation on this site.

Oops. meant to say 'wonkery', as in policy wonk.

Sounds like the dynastic cycle that has affected China for more than two millennia (where central power expands and recedes over time) is still in force. Funny, that.

Privatization of essential services? Corruption?

sounds like the GOP-led USA government!!

.... Conservatives ...hate for the government to have too much of such powers.... RSM on July 10, 2007 at 9:18 AM
Conservatives want to be in every bedroom, check every email, and control the birth, life, and death of every resident of the US. That sounds like too much, too damn much power.

When it hurts corporate China's exports, suddenly some ministers get the death penalty. The central government has the power if they choose.

Re: China executing their "FDA head":

I'm against the death penalty, but I wouldn't mind seeing nearly-as-severe penalties against corrupt US regulators in cases where their corruption leads to deaths as a predictable consequence.

If a bureaucrat takes a bribe to approve a poisonous food or drug, and people die as a result, a couple of decades in prison (real prison, not white-collar country club prison) would be an appropriate penalty.

Isn't this how the Chinese central government (not just the current "Communist" government) sees its authority begin to erode until they no longer hold the mandate of heaven? Throw in the extreme income disparity developing in the new China and one can readily see a toxic brew which will be ready for decanting in only several decades. In the good, old days, the central government's military and police could sit on the insurgents for a long time before the dissatisfaction boiled over but today's "faster, higher, longer" world would seem to empower revolutionaries to an extent unbelievable in prior Marxist eras.

Corruption is so endemic in China's provinces, and central government authority so weak, that environmental whistleblowers are now welcome. A dramatic departure indeed. —Kevin Drum

Utter nonsense. The central government's authority is weak? Why is it then able to shut down the media at will or crack down on anything else is doesn't approve of?

The Chinese made a decision long ago to catch up with the West industrially and commercially, environmental costs be damned.

The Chinese made a decision long ago to catch up with the West industrially and commercially, environmental costs be damned. Well said, and nor are we much different. In the short run, mandating a Hummer H17 (65 mpg) is bad for the car companies, which is bad for the economy, which is bad for re-election, which is all that matters to the politicians, so let the kids solve tackle the problems. Eat, drink, and be merry.

If a bureaucrat takes a bribe to approve a poisonous food or drug, and people die as a result, a couple of decades in prison (real prison, not white-collar country club prison) would be an appropriate penalty.

Well, what's happening in China is that they have no real food and drug administration (the higher ups making a deliberate decision not to not regulate industies bringing money to the country). The poor dude with the title had no power, no team, no legislative mandate. He was a scapegoat, executed because they have no ability (or desire?) to take real action. The bribe accusation was either fictious or unrelated to the large number of blocked and recalled items.

His replacement says it will take 5 years to ensure the safety of China's food and drugs. She's starting from scratch and is not being given the resources to work quickly.

China's government, she says, genuinely wants to tackle its horrific pollution problem.

Wrong. If China truly wanted to tackle pollution, it can. It requires a free press to report freely on the problems of pollution. It requires allowing civic groups the right to march and protest. But by doing so, it would erode the dictatorial powers of the central government, which they will not cede willingly. The Chinese government sees their hold on power more important than any effort to truly tackle their pollution problems.