Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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July 13, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

HEDGE FUND WATCH....As you may know, hedge fund managers don't like to pay taxes. To facilitate this desire, they've decided that their management fees aren't really management fees. They're capital gains and should be taxed at the capital gains rate of 15% instead of the 35% rate that you and I would have to pay if we earned several million dollars a year.

This is an absurd loophole, and Congress is now dithering about whether to close it. (The fact that they're dithering, instead of competing with each other to express outrage and then closing it immediately on a unanimous vote, is yet another demonstration of the immense stranglehold that the rich have on American politics right now, but that's another story.) However, David Cay Johnston tells us today that even if this loophole gets closed, there's another one waiting in the wings.

It's much too complicated to explain, but the end result is that hedge funds that go public are able to avoid taxation on a huge chunk of the money they raise for their principals. In fact, it's even worse: in the case of the $4.75 billion Blackstone IPO, the principals may actually get a tax refund on $3.7 billion of their bounty. This stuff really is capital gains, but they aren't even willing to pay capital gains rates on it. They want us to pay them.

Ain't that sweet? Don't you wish you didn't have to pay taxes either? It's a grand time to be rich and powerful in America, isn't it?

POSTSCRIPT: By the way, this one is at least slightly personal for me. In the 90s I worked for a software company that went public and then got acquired. I owned stock options in the company and made money when the deal went through. Not $4 billion, but a pleasant little chunk, and I paid capital gains taxes on that money. All of it. I think the guys who make $4 billion ought to be required to do the same.

Kevin Drum 12:17 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (55)

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Comments

Welcome to real class warfare.

Posted by: Gandalf on July 13, 2007 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

I think the guys who make $4 billion ought to be required to do the same.

Yeah, but they don't, and who asked you, anyway?

Posted by: tomeck on July 13, 2007 at 12:28 PM | PERMALINK

This is an absurd loophole, and Congress is now dithering about whether to close it.

Nonsense Kevin. Closing the so-called "loophole" would result in double taxation of the same income. How could you support taxing the same income twice? Even worse, your proposed tax hike would drive investment out of America into foreign countries causing the American economy to nosedive and go back into Clinton-era recessions.

Link
"But a capital-gains treatment for the carried interest is appropriate since it is capital income. And since the carry represents a portion of the funds capital gain, taxing it at the full individual rate would exacerbate the double-taxation of capital gains, since the portfolio companies already pay corporate tax."
"Additionally, taxing carry as ordinary income would represent an enormous tax hike that would drive investment partnerships out of the U.S. and force limited partners to offer higher pre-tax participation to general partners, lowering returns for millions of Americans whose pensions are invested in private equity and removing critical support, via buyouts, from the stock market."

Posted by: Al on July 13, 2007 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

Welcome to capitalism, Kevin!

I'm glad you realized a profit from an investment that you made in the future of the company that you were a part of. You probably worked hard, knowing that the possibility of making a profit was your greatest incentive!

Sadly, many liberals want to roll back capitalism and socialize medicine and education in this country. Why have you not written a post (and I'm sorry if I ignored it if you did) about Barack Obama giving every single lazy, deadbeat teacher in the NEA a heart attack by advocating "merit pay" for teachers recently?

For about four years--1987 to 1991--I paid a grand total of $3,500 in taxes while making about 14 million dollars. Yes, I did use a few loopholes, some of which were questioned vigorously by members of the Internal Revenue Service. No, I was not convicted that time.

I really miss those days. A man could make some money in this country in the days before liberals screwed everything up.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINK

Only one thing: Blackstone is a private equity group, not a hedge fund. There is a difference.

Posted by: AWC on July 13, 2007 at 12:42 PM | PERMALINK

What??? Have the rich pay taxes!!!!

Kevin, you should be demanding that rather than feeding the IRS, the hedge fund manglers should be sending 10% of their profits to Inkblot so that he can run for preznit.

Posted by: optical weenie on July 13, 2007 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

Tax law has become a shell game in which, because the IRS is seriously understaffed and legally outgunned, ways are found to call stuff that ought to be taxable non-taxable, and stuff that should be taxed at a higher rate something else. It's all a game of labeling, with no underlaying economic reality. I've had clients who went to jail for things that looked a lot like this.

And Norman, who used to make a reasonable point or two has completely destroyed his credibility with this: A man could make some money in this country in the days before liberals screwed everything up. No wonder Congressman Sander Levin told Henry Kravis to get lost the other day when Kravis came around looking for a handout. Poor Kravis, if he has to pay tax on his ordinary income, he'll be forced to become a cobbler or something.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINK

So the liberals screwed everything up in just the three years between 1991 (with Uncle Ronnie's handpicked successor in office) and the Contract With America? Wow, I had no idea that Clinton was that efficient!

Posted by: Emartin on July 13, 2007 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK
...I really miss those days... Norman Rogers at 12:32 PM
You can still make a buck or two standing on an expressway off-ramp, doing your crazy spiel in your moth-eaten chicken suit. The donations would be tax free. Posted by: Mike on July 13, 2007 at 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

That's it i,m moving all of my money to storage room B.That will show you righies.

Posted by: john john on July 13, 2007 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

I always love people railing against "double taxation" as if it were simply self-evident that taxing the same dollar more than once is unthinkable -- a breach of fundamental norms in the same way that, say, the President locking someone up indefinitely without charges would be. Oh yeah, we tossed that one out, didn't we? Well, my point still stands. I'm getting ready to go to lunch in a moment, and the dollar that I will spend was taxed many times, right? When I received it; when my boss received it; when his customer received it; etc., etc. And when I pay it for lunch, it will be taxed, and what's left over for the hot dog guy will be taxed, on ad infinitum.

I've never heard anyone even define "double taxation" in any coherent sense, much less put forward a sensible rule to divine under what conditions it is acceptable and when it is not. Mostly, it seems, it is unacceptable to those people who might find themselves subject to any additional tax.

Posted by: Glenn on July 13, 2007 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

Norman could make a lot of money by just hanging around politicans there always willing to pay for blowjobs.Norman you sucka.

Posted by: john john on July 13, 2007 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

To characterize it as a tax refund isn't even accurate. Thanks to a ludicrous deduction loophole that stretches out over 15 years, they will not only be refunded ALL the taxes they paid on the 3.7 billion, but they will actually get back $198 million MORE than that. The rest of us are subsidizing this obscenity.

Posted by: R. Porrofatto on July 13, 2007 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK
But a capital-gains treatment for the carried interest is appropriate since it is capital income.

This rather presupposes that favorable treatment of capital income is justified to start with.

And since the carry represents a portion of the fund?s capital gain, taxing it at the full individual rate would exacerbate the double-taxation of capital gains, since the portfolio companies already pay corporate tax.

The portfolio companies are separate entities, and they are paying tax on a different thing. There is no "double taxation" involved in any reasonable sense of the word.

Posted by: cmdicely on July 13, 2007 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

Krugman weighs in
...A couple of weeks ago, Warren Buffett pointed out that he pays an average federal income tax rate of 17.7 percent, while his receptionist pays about 30 percent....
He must pay his receptionist very well indeed.

Posted by: Mike on July 13, 2007 at 1:07 PM | PERMALINK

In any sensible world, Congress would fix these practices (assuming for a moment that they're legitimate at all) in a second. But they don't seem to want to. Krugman rightly chastises the Democrats in the Senate who are hesitating for throwing away the opportunity to differentiate themselves from Republicans on an issue that has wide public support.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

There is no such thing as "double taxation". Income gets taxed everytime it switches hands. When a corporation gets money from it's customers then that's corporate income,which gets taxed. It isn't the investor's income until it get distributed to them. Then it's taxed because it's investor income NOT CORPORATE INCOME. So the same income didn't get taxed again.

It ain't double taxation unless the same income gets taxed twice.

Posted by: Dr. Morpheus on July 13, 2007 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

"Carried interest [which is allegedly subject only to capital gains taxation] refers to the performance fees that limited partners pay the general partner so that they can participate in the upside of their investments and have their incentives aligned."

Since when is this kind of thing a return on capital anyway??? It's not. And as usual this quote from the National Review is complete gibberish.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

By there own standards wouldn't the righties be the biggest wefare queens in the United States.Norman said so above.Then Haliburton would be second.Exxon third.And that little woman with the three kids doesn't even rate in the top 50 you righties take up the first 50 places in the Welfare queen deparment.

Posted by: john john on July 13, 2007 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, did you mean that you paid income tax on your exercised options, or capital gains? Capital gains rates are lower than income rates.

Posted by: chris on July 13, 2007 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

Norman should be in jail.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on July 13, 2007 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

Here is something you might not know, hedge fund employees are more likely to support Democrats than Republicans. Lobbyists working for the hedge funds are more than aware of that odd fact. That's probably why the congress is dithering.

Posted by: corpus jurs on July 13, 2007 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

I get it now. That carried interest is a return on capital, just not any capital the general partner has put up. And that's what Congressman Levin's bill would do -- make capital gains treatment apply only to income which has resulted from the risk of putting up the capital for some investment. No risk, no gain.

I once had an advestment adviser with whom I entered into a "partnership" in which I put up all the money, and he took a percentage of the gain, not treating it as ordinary income (and in this low-rent time, not paying employment taxes on it). I thought it was illegal and quit the deal after a year (although he was pulling in about a 30% return). I still think it's illegal, but no harm in Congress making that clear.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 1:37 PM | PERMALINK

Kev;
I had a similar software-startup experience to yours; only, the amount of stock options was so far beyond my means of normal income, that the only way I could actually liquidate it was through same-day sales. In other words, I could not take advantage of Capital Gains rates. I paid normal income tax on it.

In order to avoid the higher tax brackets, I decided to break my liquidation into three yearly chunks (which worked with my vesting schedule anyway) - and use the first chunk as a down payment on my house, a second to pay off my second mortgage for home improvement projects, and the third chunk to re-fi, so I could have a reasonable house payment, and live-large off the rest of my salary.

Unfortunately, by the time I got to the third "chunk" - the market had collapsed. My options, which, after splits, were set at $4, were worth over $260 at their peak (when I sold my second "chunk") - but by the time my third "chunk" came around, I balked, because they were only worth $16. (many of my co-workers were less fortunate, as their options were priced much higher than mine: they were "under-water").

So now, I managed to at least get INTO a house, in California (in 2000, before the huge price-run up started). But I struggle, because my house payment is a huge chunk of my income, and my other expenses are increasing, and my income is not.

Ironically, that startup really had the best product in that area of the software market. The company that bought them, bought them, not to have the right to sell the technology, but instead, to destroy it. That particular market (tape backup software) over the course of 5 years, went from something like 10 players down to 2. And the offerings now, are just absolute crap compared to what we were building in 1994.

That's Capitalism, Norman?

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on July 13, 2007 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK

I think one of the best arguments against this sort of fairy dust thinking is that both Warren Buffett and William H. Gates (the father of BillyBoy & a very well to do corporate lawyer) are very strongly against it

Not that I think the feeding hogs are interested in their opinion of course

"The water won't clear up 'til we get the hogs out of the creek." - Jim Hightower

Posted by: daCascadian on July 13, 2007 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

In view of the fact that I pay Federal income taxes on my wages, plus I pay State income taxes, real estate taxes, sales taxes, social security and medicare taxes, not to mention a host of taxes that my state calls "fees," plus I'll have to pay income tax on the money I'll be taking out of my 401k, I tend to get very angry when some guy named Biff whines about having to pay a capital gains tax or when guys like Al try to make me feel sorry for a guy who's making 6 or 7 figures.

Pay your share and be glad for what you've got, assholes.

Posted by: tomeck on July 13, 2007 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

You wanna talk about "double-taxation"?

I enjoy reading this "free site" Political Animal.

My ISP bills me monthly for my internet connection; then bills anyone running a server, so Kevin pays to serve Political Animal, and I pay to read it. Then I pay again, when I look at Kevin's Ads. Kevin and I both pay for our OS software, authoring software, server software, antivirus software, antispyware software, some webserver operators pay a third party like Verisign for a digital certificate. . .

Did I say "double taxation"? I lost count.

Whiners.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on July 13, 2007 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

hedge funds that go public are able to avoid taxation on a huge chunk of the money they raise for their principals. In fact, it's even worse: in the case of the $4.75 billion Blackstone IPO,

Blackstone is not a hedge fund.

Posted by: Stefan on July 13, 2007 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

Norman should be in jail.

Been there, done that, didn't buy the t-shirt.

I absolutely treasure these afternoons, when I can sit down at the computer after lunchtime and read all about how liberals are the true protectors of capitalism. Let me, most emphatically, scream "NOT!" at the top of my lungs.

Investors who pay low tax rates create the wealth that permeates the economy. The added advantage that an investor like me brings to the economy can be manifested in many ways. First, I buy a lot of high-end consumer goods. The persons who benefit are the salesmen and saleswomen who sell me televisions, stereos, computers, fine furniture, recreational equipment like the jetski I just purchased, and vehicles. Second, we grease the wheels so that American capitalism keeps churning along--seen the stock market today? Booming, sir! Booming! Third, we are an example of what you should aspire to. Put money in the bank, put it in stocks and bonds, put it anywhere but your mattress. Invest! Play the game! You can't win it if you ain't in it.

But back to liberal delusions about what is and what is not good for this economy. If any of you were even slightly right once in a blue moon, we'd face utter collapse. Instead, we are creating wealth and living high on the hog in this country. Poor liberals! Shut out of society and left, broken and penniless by the side of the road. You want to shoot drugs into your crotch, be my guest. You want to run down everything that is good about this country? Have at it. You want to denigrate me for being part of what's right with this country? Knock yourself out.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

Now, now Kevin:
"I think the guys who make $4 billion ought to be required to do the same."
They should be given the patriotic duty....I mean...opportunity to contribute to this wonderful country which has given them the opportunity to extort....I mean earn...this obscene...um, I mean immense windfall.

Posted by: Stewart Dean on July 13, 2007 at 2:43 PM | PERMALINK

Blackstone:

The Blackstone Group (NYSE:BX) is a leading global alternative asset manager and provider of financial advisory services. Its alternative asset management businesses include the management of corporate private equity funds, real estate opportunity funds, funds of hedge funds, mezzanine funds, senior debt funds, proprietary hedge funds and closed-end mutual funds. The Blackstone Group also provides various financial advisory services, including mergers and acquisitions advisory, restructuring and reorganization advisory and fund placement services.

A very much larger and more complex version of the work that I spent a good chunk of my life doing in service to this country. Do I demand thanks for it? A little appreciation would be nice. I'm not holding my breath.

I made a little money off this deal:

Hilton Hotels Corporation to Be Acquired by Blackstone Investment Funds
7/3/2007

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif., Jul 03, 2007
Hilton Hotels Corporation (NYSE:HLT) announced today that it has entered into a definitive merger agreement with The Blackstone Group's (NYSE:BX) real estate and corporate private equity funds in an all-cash transaction valued at approximately $26 billion. Under the terms of the agreement, Blackstone will acquire all the outstanding common stock of Hilton for $47.50 per share. The price represents a premium of 40% over yesterday's closing stock price.

Not a lot, but enough to be happy with. And Blackstone's officers are well compensated, as they should be. Viva capitalissimo!

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

The titans of the hedge funds remind me of that sequence from Waiting for the Electrician, where
somebody overreaches

"All for one....and all for one!.....Let me hear it for me!"

Massed chorus from everyone else:
"You're under arrest!"

Posted by: Stewart Dean on July 13, 2007 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

You know, I felt a little hyperbolic in the comments to the "Laugher Curve" post above, when I said, "our trolls keep blathering on about how the world will end if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income."

But then Normie comes up with this: "If any of you were even slightly right once in a blue moon, we'd face utter collapse." So I don't feel bad anymore.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

...the work that I spent a good chunk of my life doing in service to this country. Do I demand thanks for it? A little appreciation would be nice. I'm not holding my breath....

Coming up with ever more complicated ways of scamming people out of their hard-earned income is service? What you and your kind deserve is jail time. You, and Ken Lay, and Conrad Black, and the rest of the White Collar Economic Terrorists.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on July 13, 2007 at 2:57 PM | PERMALINK

[M]anagement of corporate private equity funds, real estate opportunity funds, funds of hedge funds, mezzanine funds, senior debt funds, proprietary hedge funds and closed-end mutual funds. ... A very much larger and more complex version of the work that I spent a good chunk of my life doing in service to this country.

WTF???? If that's what passes for public service these days, then grand theft auto must count for charitable activity.

Posted by: Davi d in NY on July 13, 2007 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

Not to defend Blackstone, but I think the NYT story is incorrect and I sent the author a letter. They say that the $751M is a current value deduction, but then treat it like a credit. (I don't know if the 35% good will depreciation is a credit or a deduction, but the NYT story calls it a deduction throughout.) When you have a deduction you don't get back the value of the deduction- when you give $1000 to charity, you don't pay $1000 less in taxes. The value you get is the deduction times your tax rate- if you're in the 25% bracket, your $1000 to charity saves you $250. In this case, if the $751 really is a deduction, they'll get back $751M * .15 = $113M, which is less than they paid in taxes ($555M). Even if they apply it to future income that's in the 35% bracket, they'll get back $751M * .35 = $263M. Still an obsenely low tax rate (between 8% and 12%) on $3.7B of profit, but not a negative tax.
Either the NYT confused a deduction with a credit and did their calculations wrong, or they incorrectly called a credit a deduction throughout the story.

Posted by: SP on July 13, 2007 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

Of course liberals see someone like myself as the enemy--I am an American who has made money, been successful, and has no qualms about singing the praises of the country in which we live.

You refugees from the last Party meeting and you castaways from the last Politburo shindig look at someone like myself and you sneer at me as if you had anything to do with making this country great. You had NOTHING to do with creating wealth and making this country great. You want to take from people like me and give it to layabouts and slackers. You will crawl a mile on your belly for a free handout. You will never, ever destroy my wealth so that you can distribute it after confiscating it. From my cold, dead hands, liberals--with thanks to Chuck Heston for that line. You want to remake this country into your perverted little leftist utopia.

NO THANKS! I've seen that little experiment and it ends with a tubby fellow standing on a tank in the middle of Red Square.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

Norman is being tongue-in-cheek, right? He's not *really* promoting those positions, right? He's just caricature-ing a filthy rich oligopolist who eats third-world babies for lunch, right? Thank God for that. Anybody that actually thought like that....they'd be unable to look at themselves in a mirror if they had any sense of morality, ethics or faith. But thanks for the irony, Norman

Posted by: Stewart Dean on July 13, 2007 at 3:17 PM | PERMALINK

Anybody that actually thought like that....they'd be unable to look at themselves in a mirror if they had any sense of morality, ethics or faith.

I make no apologies, sir. I post here because I have done so for years--I have read Kevin Dumbo since 2004, I suppose. I don't care what you think about me. I've been called every name in the book and then some. I've been subjected to more abuse and filth than I care to remember.

I truly believe in capitalism and I truly believe this is the greatest country in the history of the world. If you can't deal with that, too bad. I know you want to join your liberal brethren and gnash your teeth and run down your country and redistribute wealth that I have earned for myself, but you're not going to get away with it. There are too many of us who are watching you like a hawk.

Besides, I'm a very handsome man and I delight in these conversations. Too bad none of you ever makes a point worth repeating or says anything remotely interesting or informative. But one can dream, can't they?

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

Of course liberals see someone like myself as the enemy ...

See a doctor, Norman. Your grandiosity coupled with fantasies about an incipient totalitarian takeover by harmless liberals doubtless has a category of its own in the most recent DSM. You're not an enemy ... you're just a poor deluded soul who has confused greed with virtue.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

you're just a poor deluded soul who has confused greed with virtue.

Oh, give me a break. Virtue is overrated.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

"Virtue is overrated."

But not greed, apparently.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

More in sadness than in anger Norman....you have that malady known to neuroscience as a Detached Conscience. There are people who pay big money for the operation, but you have come by it all on your own. In prior days, you signed with the Black Gentleman to get it. What profiteth it a man and all that. Not only is there capitalism, Norman, there is free will, which allows us to go to Hell in our fashion. Party on.

Posted by: Stewart Dean on July 13, 2007 at 3:46 PM | PERMALINK

This is what money can buy, liberals. This is not my machine--this is a pretty good photo of the Yamaha that I just bought:

You can see it here.

When I'm having a great time this weekend riding it and enjoying myself, I'll remember all of you and I'll be sure to shed a tear for all of you who aren't smart enough or talented enough to become a wealthy investment banker and get your own jetski.

And, no--I do not approve of the decal on the front of this particular jetski. I put a decal on mine of the "Lexus" symbol since I tow the jetski trailer with my Lexus SUV. Again, this isn't my vehicle--it's a darned good photo.

I am sad to say that if I were to link any of you to my blog and to my photo library, you'd have a field day making fun of me. Not gonna happen!

Suck eggs, liberals--I'm off to have a wonderful, wonderful weekend.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 13, 2007 at 3:46 PM | PERMALINK

Once again, Kevin, you failed to complain about the lower capital gains rate itself, but only about the fees being counted as capital gains. After all the discussion (remember?) about this subject a few weeks ago, that is disappointing.

Posted by: Neil B. on July 13, 2007 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

Norman, if you think that's persuasive, you really need to get a check-up. I'm serious. I'm worried about your mental balance. You seem to be someone with little self-worth, who holds on to material things as if they were the answers to the good life. Norman, a wise man said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." Give it a try.

Posted by: David in NY on July 13, 2007 at 4:16 PM | PERMALINK

Norman is straight up fronting. Some of the most rampant fronting I've seen on the internets... this week. It makes me laugh, really. I don't believe a word he says.

Posted by: fj on July 13, 2007 at 4:55 PM | PERMALINK

The usual cast of right wingnuts whining about "double taxation." Let me explain this once again . . .

Corporations are seperate legal entities from shareholders. It is therefore not "double taxation" to tax something when held by the corporation, and then tax it again after it's transfered to the shareholder.

There are numerous advantages of operating in the corporate form. So-called "double taxation" is the price you pay for those advantages--if you don't like it, don't form a corporation.

Oddly, the people who whine about "double taxation" are usually the same crew that whines about how McCain-Feingold supposedly violates the First Amendment rights of corporations . . .

Posted by: rea on July 13, 2007 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

Norman needs to team up with the guy who writes The G Manifesto and write a co-blog together. It would be comedy gold!

Posted by: Constantine on July 13, 2007 at 6:17 PM | PERMALINK

Damn straight, Kevin.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on July 13, 2007 at 10:47 PM | PERMALINK

Does Norman spew on other sites or does he limit his
sanctimonious prickery to this one? If he doesn't break his neck on his faaaabulous new Jet Ski it will confirm that there is no God.

Posted by: AColtharp on July 13, 2007 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, Norman does spew elsewhere. Google for ["norman rogers" liberals] into Google and find crapshots at Janegalt, biglizards.net, rogerlsimon, etc.

Posted by: Neil B. on July 15, 2007 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

I paid 3,500 in taxes the first half of this year, and I work 45 hours a week in the restaurant industry, and make around 35000 a year. Why Mr rogers does not have to pay the same percentage as I do is beyond me. He has taken advatage of the same thing I do, the Post office, the internet, the interstate highway system, public airwaves, the military operations that secure these strategic resources we make so much money off of. Dude, I am no rocket scientist, but if normie thinks he did all of htat by himself, he needs to take a good look in the mirror, and be honest with himself. I think it is great you make money, and hey, maybe just because you make more does not mean you should be taxed more, but, 3500 on a 14 million dollar income? That is the greediest, most unpatriotic thing I have heard since this morning. I am no liberal, or anything else you want to bash normie, but I do know how to do simple math, I DO PAY MY PART, and I have a brain, so please explain to me why you think everybody should be just like you, even though they may not have enjoyed the silver spoon you must have been born with (no one who actually works for a living should have your disregard for it)

Posted by: matt greer on July 15, 2007 at 3:52 PM | PERMALINK

...but, 3500 on a 14 million dollar income? That is the greediest, most unpatriotic thing I have heard since this morning. I am no liberal, or anything else you want to bash normie, but I do know how to do simple math, I DO PAY MY PART, and I have a brain, so please explain to me why you think everybody should be just like you, even though they may not have enjoyed the silver spoon you must have been born with (no one who actually works for a living should have your disregard for it)

Perhaps if you were as smart as me, you'd pay NO taxes whatsoever on the paltry earnings you do bring home. Sorry to break it to you, but I am simply better than you are.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on July 16, 2007 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK
....Perhaps if you were as smart as me, you'd pay NO taxes whatsoever....Norman Rogers at 8:35 AM
So you are one of those lucky duckies. Posted by: Mike on July 16, 2007 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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