Didn't they lower the standards a while back so that they're accepting people with known personality problems?

Didn't they lower the standards a while back so that they're accepting people with known personality problems?

Yes, but that was part of long term Republican plan to ensure their future candidates had military experience.

But Dems hate the troops!

Can't the soldiers then counter-sue for being accepted and being put in a situation where their personality disorders become more obvious?

Does this
-personality disorder discharge-
go for ALL military, including the Commander-in-Chief?

Didn't they lower the standards a while back so that they're accepting people with known personality problems?

Yeah but this problem predates that. Click the link to BG's post, scroll down, and watch the video. Be fucking appalled and ashamed.

And kudos to Mr. Drum for spreading the word. (This is why the cats like you!)

...part of long term Republican plan to ensure their future candidates had military experience.

Hilarious, NoMorals, thanks.

If the Army was incapable of diagnosing pre-existing conditions at enlistment, they are therefore i-n-c-a-p-a-b-l-e of diagnosing pre-existing conditions. We can put no faith in their judgments now.

Their responsibility to soldiers whom they initially misdiagnosed and then subjected to the psychological trauma of war is greater, not less.

Click the link to BG's post, scroll down, and watch the video.
And read the post, too, of course.

I wish the American people could be told, every single day, just how corrupt, despicable, hypocritical and disgusting are the stooges who are running this mis-begotten war. It is truly appalling that the same creeps who accuse the Democrats of not supporting the troops can be systematically denying benefits to injured soldiers.
Where is the outrage????

No, Dems don't hate the troops. If we send somebody in to harms way, and that person is injured either physically or psychologically, we have to be prepared to take care of them. It is simply wrong to throw them away.

Blue Girl's article is really important. I know she worked on it long and hard. We are all proud of her at WTWC.

NoMorals, that was wicked snark!
Chance is absolutely right. If they accept someone with personality disorders, they should be considered to have waived their rights to deny benefits. But making them pay back their signing bonuses is absolutely egregious and bespeaks a military and civilian leadership entirely devoid of morality. They obviously hoped the ones with preexisting conditions would be cannon fodder and just die useful deaths. If we ever get leaders with a backbone in this country, anyone even tangentially involved in this behaviour would be drummed out of the military without benefits or retirement, and thrown in the clink. Same for the civilians. Instead we'll just see pardons from the Dems when they take over.

Anybody who gets messed up by seeing people(maybe innocent) killed or by killing them his/her self was obviously fucked up going in or of French lineage or liberal. Life is hard; people die; get over it. Would you rather you were dead, ya wimp?

Well, you do have to be a little nuts to sign up or re-enlist in this environment. Cannon fodder in an illegal war, one that didn't even make strategic sense to begin with, really is crazy almost by definition. They'll need the benefits for the counseling needed to get right.
Another argument for single payer health care.

Wow, the guy that was speaking out that worked at the VA tells it all in a nutshell:

"It's a Quick way to get rid of that body and bring in a new body and it's a quick way to save money"

Pre-existing condition Pre-existing condition I'm getting REALLY SICK of hearing that..
"Pre-existing condition"?? of WHAT- being HUMAN?

Well, you do have to be a little nuts to sign up or re-enlist in this environment.

Oh, there are reasons. Here is a post by The Unknown Soldier on what is probably the biggest reason why.

I have a second-degree inlaw who is a petty officer with a house full of kids, two of them special needs, and he can never get out because he couldn't simultaneously support his family, and get the two with needs the care they need outside.

Granted, he didn't have to literally screw himself into either perpetual service or poverty, but time can't be rewound, either.

Ah, Kevin.

Hilarious. Now Blue Girl Red State has a blog? I put her in her place so many times here she has a permanant shelf space. I guess it just shows any nitwit can have a blog.

Catch 22 in reverse: if you signed up for Iraq you must have been crazy.

Of course, some enlistees actually did have pre-existing psychological conditions, the most common of which was obsessive and irrational testosteropatriopia.

Sounds like the military version of "Sicko" syndrome in general: cast the widest possible net for "insurance" premiums, then pay out the absolute minimum.

Dems need to go on the offensive here, exposing this as a pervasive scam. But are too many on the take to be effectively pissed-off in public?

I wrote a post the other day on just exactly why this whole discharge thing is bogus. As a practicing psychotherapist, I promise you it's unconscionable.

http://tangledwebs1954.blogspot.com/2007/07/disordered-discharge.html

Nice to see that Kit Bond's showing signs of joining the human race. I was beginning to think he was some kind of Super-Troll designed by AEI.

I'd rather shoot myself in the leg then go to Iraq and fight for Dirty Dick's Halliburton motherfuckers.

Go ahead and throw me in Gitmo.
I don't give a mother fucking repug's ass.

And with all due respect:

Go fuck yourself Mr. Vice President with one of your lezbo daughter's gold-tipped dildos!!

Because I ain't going to fucking Iraq for you.
AGAIN.
AND AGAIN.
AND GODDAMN AGAIN!

I am done.
Shoot me in the leg!

Yep!
I'm done serving your trashy white shitty corporate ass.
DONE!
FOREVER MOTHER FUCKER.
FOREVER!

LONG LIVE AMERICA!
AND LET'S PUNISH OUR OWN WAR CRIMINALS!

Cheney in Jail!
NOW.

egbert, you don't have a blog. A blog is hard work. You have to research, listen, talk, and think. You don't like hard work so I don't think you know how to research. We all know about how well you listen and think. About all you can do is talk and only then when somebody writes your talking points.

egsmell: "Now Blue Girl Red State has a blog? I put her in her place so many times here she has a permanant shelf space."

If you consider someone towering above you as being "put in her place", well you certainly did, little boy. Now go back outside and play with the other toddlers. The small yellow bus will be there for you soon!

I would like to start a blog called Imprisoning Those We Didn't Choose, dedicated to incarcerating gaping assholes who were never elected and took this country to war on false pretenses and are war profiteering. It would cover the war trials and possible execution of the first ex-president and ex-vice president of the United States on treason charges. Know anyone who might meet that description???

Speaking of fragile little eggshell minds, I see that the Egplant still has everything ass backwards; obviously, it is BlueGirl that has put HIM in his place repeatedly.

egbert: "Ah, Kevin. Hilarious."

Ah, egbert. Not really.

Rather, you are but the pathetic equivalent of a 1:00am lounge act in Wisconsin Dells.

Seriously, though -- how much does the RNC pay you to monitor this site? Or is perpetually making a total ass of yourself something you gladly perform gratis for our occasional bemusement?

bmaz: "I see that the Egplant still has everything ass backwards; obviously, it is BlueGirl that has put HIM in his place repeatedly."

But as you can so obviously see, Al just as diligently hacksaws the padlocks to let him back out.

Hopefully, by the end of next year, we'll have closed that particular asylum -- permanently.

What is amazing to me is that egbert was unaware of Watching Those We Chose. The site has been up since January. It has been growing like topsey every month. A lot of the regulars here blog there. A couple of months ago bmaz and blue girl made the New York Times and NPR for work they did under the WTWC banner.

Kevin is pretty much the godfather of WTWC. Steve Benen has been a big influence as well. Mostly it's Blue Girl.

I am beginning to wonder if egbert isn't just a name Scaife and associates hand from hack to hack. An attentive troll would have known everything I just mentioned.

I suspect Kevin is pretty proud of Blue Girl and her merry band of PA alumni.

So what are you saying, Kevin? That you want the Army to keep people who are demonstrably unfit to bring democracy to Iraq? The mission is too important to leave it to the mentally unstable.

The mission is too important to leave it to the mentally unstable.

Must...resist...hanging...curve-ball...

Precisely why Bush needs to be removed Al. Attention PA shoppers, Al's clock will momentarily be accurate again in exactly twelve hours....

Sorry Lionel, you have to hit pitches that are dead red in the wheelhouse.

Nice to see that Kit Bond's showing signs of joining the human race. I was beginning to think he was some kind of Super-Troll designed by AEI.
Posted by: junebug on July 14, 2007 at 3:21 PM
------
Yes, it is good to see people of various ideological stripes starting to snap out of the purist careerism they have been so badly afflicted with in the past decade or so. Unfortunately, many of them are doing so at the end of their careers, or are already retired. What we need desperately are people on the inside at the start and middle of their careers to step up, speak their conscience, be themselves, do what's right and stop being such blind establishmentarians.

I should also note that "hanging" and "curveball" are exactly how we got into this mess. The infamous "hanging" chad in Florida led to the unelected installation of Bush as President; and the mentally delusional, known liar "Curveball", the Iraqi "informant" that Cheney and Bush criminally held out as proof for their immoral invasion of Iraq.

I didn't know that Blue Girl had a blog, but now that I've been there I'll be back. I just hate when my day job interfers with hitting the good blogs on a regular basis.

Thanks, Blue Girl, and thanks, Kevin, for calling our attention to this story.

I suppose lots of us could develop a personality disorder if we had to be around exploding human beings. Sheesh.

Re military experience for future Republican candidates: Did you know that George P. Bush, Jeb's son, joined the Navy Reserve? Clearly, he's a traditionalist, the tradition in question being choosing the form of military service least likely to result in injury or death.

When this was in the news, he said that he even "looked into active duty" and was reported to have had somber conversations with his wife about about it. What could be a clearer demonstration of his patriotism than that?

As you may know, George P. has been mentioned--by those who mention these things--as the GHW Bush grandchild most likely to be a next-generation politico. Currently, his qualifications--in addition to his surname and the record of military service that he is accumulating--include being handsome and half-Hispanic, an attribute that may help the Republicans win back some of the Hispanic support they have recently trashed.

I see the usual summer soldiers and sunshine patriots have to add their obnoxious brew to this problem.

Have you people no shame at all ? Have you absolutely NO ability to empathise with another human being ?

What empty husks of beings you are; may you suffer far greater pain than those being forced through this hell of neglect

A pox on you & yours

mutter, stew, mutter, mutter, stew...

disgusting

"...This is not a game." - Lorie Van Auken (2001.09.11 widow)

Did you know that George P. Bush, Jeb's son, joined the Navy Reserve?

And everyone here thought I was joking. I had a snarky remark all typed in about the Navy now taking legacy admissions, but it just didn't seem right. Insert your own poorly crafted joke here ________.

...and half-Hispanic, an attribute that may help the Republicans win back some of the Hispanic support they have recently trashed.

This, to me, is one of the sadist things about people: The inability to see good or bad in others because of skin color. It's a shame that it's not just restricted to one ethnicity (or religion, or political outlook, or…), but not being restricted I guess does kind of show how we are all the same – in idiocy, at least. That is, if you're correct.

I guess Bu$hCo has been taking lessons from the health insurance industry on how to reduce costs by claiming after-the-fact (of illness) that the condition was pre-existing.

Congress should make it clear, you bought it (enlisted the person), so fix it.

The number of truly anti-troop activities of the Bush/Cheney/GOP is disgusting: no pay increases, cut VA funds, poor military hospitals, misclassification of head injuries and PTSD, extending tours in war zone, reducing training and recovery time at home, inadequate protection of warriors (vests, armor) .....

THE GOP likes wars, but doesn't want to pay for them, or to take care of our stressed out and injured troops.

We are still paying socially today for neglecting our Vietnam veterans after their return. But in this war, the number of head injuries and psychological disorders will be much greater than previous wars, and the effects will last for several generations ahead.

JimPortlandOR - Isn't that what you would expect from the party of privileged blue snot punks?

It's interesting that it was Bob Woodruff who reported this story on ABC. Since his own recovery, he's done several features on the care of veterans.

Fuck me, even the Army is abusing the 'pre-existing condition' clause. You gotta admit no liberal would ever think this up. Fucking conservatives.

In the last press conference I watched, the decider himself looked acutely discomforted by questions posed--some good inquiries, actually, and he showed a reduced capacity for it all, quite annoyed looking, with a scrunched up-looking negativity to his face, real snarled up, petulant, impatient, irritable, as if having quite the visceral reaction to the experience of being directly questioned. It was markedly noticeable.
Seems like he has magical thinking about the war policy. John Murtha called him delusional.

I would like to see him be asked about the veterans' issues raised by BlueGirl.

egdick: Now Blue Girl Red State has a blog? I put her in her place so many times here she has a permanant shelf space. I guess it just shows any nitwit can have a blog.

Yo, dude. The only thing put in its place is Blue Girl's foot inserted into your ass. I notice you always post once per thread then disappear. That's some kinda dialog you got goin'.

You, eggy, are the biggest piece of worthless crap on any board. Anywhere. Any time.

Don't pretend to fuck with BG.

Egbert lands in here like some creepy sting bee spoiling the time on the back porch...
then he flits away. Wonder if he is on the republican payroll to derail the discourse.
Imagine the psychological effects of continual deceitfulness and reckless disregard.

uh, eggie's a parody... so's Al. so's Norman for that matter.

mhr, rnc, monkeybones, Objective Historian are not.

So what are you saying, Kevin? That you want the Army to keep people who are demonstrably unfit to bring democracy to Iraq? The mission is too important to leave it to the mentally unstable.

Talk about missing the point exactly. No one is saying keep them in service after they have been catastrophically traumatized.

We are saying don't screw them out of their benefits. Did you even read the post and watch the video, you tool?

If a parody, why so annoying? Norman is at least cute.

I dunno. I find Eggie cute at times. Like when he's piling the steaks higher on his side of the isle. :)

Donald to Egbert: Seriously, though -- how much does the RNC pay you to monitor this site?

They sure aren't getting their money's worth, if they are. Why does anyone respond to him? Norman is fun. egbert is just sad, even as parody.

Parody, schmarody. Blue Girl's honor must be upheld against tripe of all stripes.

We have an outreach center for vets. Last week an Iraq vet, just out of country came to us. He had no money, no place to live. He has a wife and a baby. After 10 months in Iraq he was summarily discharged BiPolar disorder. Existed prior to service. No benefits, nothing. This is criminal. What they forgot is that this guy had a previous enlistment and honorable discharge.

The thing that really bothers me (besides the criminality) is who are the Doctors doing this??? Can they sleep at night? Does someone have a gun to their heads?

Blue Girl hatches group blogs plural.
Her original site has been replaced with
http://bluegirlredmissouri.blogspot.com/
When she decided to write with the assistance of quipsters from comments threads of this blog
http://www.proctoringcongress.blogspot.com/
became group blogging by invitation titled 'Watching Those We Chose'.
Continuing linkage from other interested parties is going to http://ooibc.blogspot.com/ which is 'The Out of Iraq Bloggers Caucus'
So the wildest bunch of commenters online - who still have their gabfest here - have productive hobbies : usually in addition to their own blogs which were going before linkup.

Excellent! I haven't been a member of the "wildest bunch" of anything since college. Good to be in the mix again.

"Wildest bunch of commenters online." I love it. Damn bmaz, we have to put that on the masthead.

[IP check reveals banned commenter]

2008 is going to be a HUGE landslide for Dems.

I hope so but according to Greg Palast, Dems are starting out millions of votes in the hole.

I wish eggy and Al would at least deny they are parodies. But they don't even pretend to be human.

Kind of rules out John McCain

Guess it rules out John McCain. Kind of.

>"Does this
-personality disorder discharge-
go for ALL military, including the Commander-in-Chief?"

Imagine a soldier going into see the shrink, pounding his chest and starting to babble incoherently... " I'm the DECIDER "

He's either gonna get washed out of the service or elected president by the ever-amazing American voters.

I am shocked and don't understand, why even if a soldier was let go due to "personality disorder" (absent misconduct per se), he or she wouldn't get an honorable medical discharge with full benefits anyway!

tyrannogenius

An outrage, full of false promises, the proverbial fine print and outright deceit.
Something is very wrong.
Just so Bush's buddies enjoy the massive tax cuts, that is all that matters to this government.
I hope the situation with the veterans is fully investigated and am contacting my representatives.

It was said that:

uh, eggie's a parody... so's Al. so's Norman for that matter.
mhr, rnc, monkeybones, Objective Historian are not.

But wait--from a recent thread:

Does Norman spew on other sites or does he limit his
sanctimonious prickery to this one? If he doesn't break his neck on his faaaabulous new Jet Ski it will confirm that there is no God.
Posted by: AColtharp on July 13, 2007 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, Norman does spew elsewhere. Google for ["norman rogers" liberals] into Google and find crapshots at Janegalt, biglizards.net, rogerlsimon, etc.
Posted by: Neil B. on July 15, 2007 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

So, how does a parody maintain a rich history of commenting not only on this blog but on many others as well? How does a parody tell you, on a daily and weekly basis, how things really work?

I know the drill--if you come here and slam the liberals and stand up for yourself and do so with flair and talent, you MUST be a parody. After all, everyone knows that liberals are the only people who are talented and creative. Most emphatically, may I say, Not!

And I had a wonderful time riding on my jet ski this weekend. I did a little wave jumping that was quite fun. I used a spear and did a little spear fishing. I believe I ran over a turtle--there was a thump and a jolt, but it could have been some clown who was doing a poor job of snorkeling.

And of course, if the point has not already been made, with the multiple call ups (some guy just got his fifth call up to serve in Iraq - now, that's abusive), many of those who are recalled to duty yet again in Iraq will have pre-existing conditions from their former service in Iraq, so it is the perfect plan for an administration and Pentagon that doesn't want to pay for its war (unless the money is going to Haliburton or similar ilk) - just keep recalling soldiers who you can then kick off the veterans' payroll for the pre-existing conditions that the administration created.

Well, for those who are stupid enough to continue heiling the American Fürher and defending the Iraq war . . . maybe they deserve the kick-in-the-teeth from the man they worship.

For the rest, it is a tragedy of monumental proportions, one the GOP and their conservatives supporters try to keep hidden while they suck up to the very people and families they are destroying.

Shamelessness has a new name; it's "GOP."

an amendment that would suspend personality discharges temporarily until the whole process has been thoroughly reviewed. Good for them

Wouldn't it be better for the soldiers to be discharged rather than continue to be subjected to the military environment that created the mental disorders in the first place?

I understand the idea is to prevent the soldiers from being dumped so that they can receive treatment, but can the military really provide any worthwhile treatment that does not result in these soldiers redeployment to the killing fields?

Bringing these soldiers' commanders to justice with war crime trials will do more than anything else to help them heal.

How does a parody tell you, on a daily and weekly basis, how things really work? Posted by Norman Rogers

In your case, strong delusions or hallucinogens. Which is it?

Bringing these soldiers' commanders to justice...

Why do soldiers become mentally ill? I think it is because of the incongruency that serving in the killing fields creates. Consciously most volunteer soldiers think the mission is worthwhile: patriotic, countering anti-American terrorism, killing the bad guys. But the reality is something different. Taking male Iraqis captive from their homes to the torture chambers while their children scream and cry or shooting families in their cars that miss check point stops or other actions against civilians is going to create subconscious contradictions to the conscious resons for their service, which will result in mental disorders. The soldiers who do not develop mental disorders from obeying evil commanders are the ones we should be most worried about when they are discharged.

These incongruities also cause mental disorders amongst the electorate. Insisting voting for politicians who supported the war in Iraq based on party affiliation because they are a symbolic opposition to the party in power, is evidence of the kind of mental disorder that now informs our politics. These people insist that the pro-war politicians must be supported in order to end the war because they are not in the same party as the other pro-war politicians. I think that is quite incongruent and does not address the root problems that need solving.