Words don't matter if the press won't report on it. Frenzied virgins like Al will rabidly support anyone who wants to make it so that no one can enjoy sex, and it is only for procreation. The rest of the populace will go merrily on thinking everything is fine. The poor, again, will suffer the consequences.

Just for the record, birth-control pills do not take effect after conception, so by anyone's definition, they are not "abortive."

Liars.

I long ago lost any hope that the MSM would point out the clear fact that the anti-abortion rights crowd's target is to overturn Griswald v Conn.

Ditto what doc said about emergency contraception or "the morning after pill". It's just a big dose of birth control pills. It has very clearly been demonstrated that EC and BCPs prevent ovulation. Anybody who tells you otherwise is lying. After an embryo is implanted for IVF, the hopeful mother-to-be is given a bigger dose of the same hormone that's in EC to help the embryo "stick".

CHOICE. The basic issue boils down to choice. It makes no difference if you are pro-xxx or pro-yyy, male or female, old or young. Choice give you freedom to do what you -by the Constitution have a right to decide to do. The wingnuts on the far right and the far left are just plain idiots and hypocritical.

Let the females and males for that matter decide what kind of birth control they want or need.

"If the GOP field is going to compete with each other to pander to their base on this, the media ought to let the rest of us know it." Haha, Kevin made a funny! In what alternate universe would THAT happen?

Actually, Doc, birth control pills can be used as emergency contraception. If a high dose (a weeks worth of regular-strength pills) is taken within 72 hours, it will prevent implantation.

But these people hate freedom
-- and that's no joke.

Let's remember that the real goal here is to make the only legitimate form of sex to be heterosexual sex within marriage for the purpose of procreation, and that the dominionist's dream is for this to be not just the norm, but the law of the land.

And ditto what J Bean said. isn't the endocrine system simply fascinating?

I loved Josh Marshall's headline when he covered this very Sun story a couple of days ago:

ROMNEY: LIFE BEGINS AT PICKUP LINE

So... life begins at "What's your sign"?

Words matter, right?

This has been another in our series of crazily rhetorical questions by Kevin Drum. Tune in again next time!!

Great screaming catfish, Kevin. Words only "matter" to press corps millionaires if you're a Democrat. Haven't you learned anything from Mr. Somerby's nine grueling years of documenting this simple truth?

So... life begins at "What's your sign"?

Does astrology seem like an appropriately Christian pickup line to you, Blue Girl? Hmmmm?

Blue Girl,

Don't buy the "prevents implantation" propaganda. As J Bean points out, and as I know from personal experience, women undergoing IVF are given what is essentially Plan B to increase the odds that the inserted embryos implant. Progesterone stops ovulation in its tracks because it is essentially an "already pregnant" chemical signal -- and thus also prevents any shedding of the uterine lining, increasing the odds for a successful pregnancy.

As our fertility doc told us over and over (before we finally had to resort to IVF), "keep sperm in the system" (i.e. have regular sex) so that the sperm are there and ready when ovulation occurs. There is this mistaken view that conception occurs minutes after intercourse, when in reality it can occur as much as 72 hours later, when ovulation finally occurs. Given a hospitable environment, sperm can live a long time...

Wow! Every sperm is sacred.

Yes, I know. I used to do sperm washing in the lab of a fertility clinic. Sperm can live a long time under the right conditions. But long before plan B was OTC we were whispering the "high dose" advice off the record in a public health clinic. If implantation has not occured, the high dose will cause the woman to bleed, and there is no uterine lining for the fertilized ovum to implant to.

Like I said, the endocrine system, especially reproductive endocrinology is fascinating.

While the Republican candidates are running hard to the right, the media need to document their positions, on film, on:
abortion/contraception,
privatizing Social Security,
health care for chiildren,
war with Iran,
taxes on the wealthy,
environmental protections,
etc.

Stuff they eagerly spout now will kill them in the general election.

The question that the democratic candidates should ask Romney is; "why is the GOP as traditionally the party that advocates smaller government interfering with individual's reproductive lives"?

We need the liberal democrats as well as the libertarians to be united as one group against the facist- Christian right.

for instance, it would have made a difference if john kerry could have responded to bush's reference to "Dred Scott" in the debate by pointing out to the national audience that this was a way of saying he would appoint scotus judges who would overturn roe.

dog-whistle ain't going to go away; we just have to make sure everyone can hear what only a few are meant to hear.

And, I thought it was sorta "How long do I fry broccoli" in front the veggie section - "Geez, ever since the divorce......" said with tear and whimper.

Well, onward to the Dred Scott question from the media.

So basically these Republicans are killing babies every time they masturbate or slapping on a pair of diapers and filling them with semen.

Romney is a theocrat, not much different from the dreaded Muslims they so fear. They want the same basic things, to kill each other because of their beliefs and to create what is basically Shurian law.

I fought to define life as beginning at conception ...

In that case, heaven must be full of human caviar. A huge number of blastocysts spontaneously abort.

Look, if you want to be ruled by superstitious idiots, Mitt, move to Iran.
.

Clearly it's not about preventing abortions, it's about control. It's the same ancient fear of women that drives so many fanatics. Why do they hate American women? Why do they hate freedom?

Sick motherfuckers. Expose them. Repeatedlyl

So... life begins at "What's your sign"?

C'mon, BlueGirl, he didn't say "Life begins at bad pick-up line"!

(so, if a woman read my last comment and said to herself "hey, that thersites, he's kinda cool." did life begin?)

Look, if you want to be ruled by superstitious idiots, Mitt, move to Iran.

Or move to the US.

so, if a woman read my last comment and said to herself "hey, that thersites, he's kinda cool." did life begin?

Depends on how much money you make....

"So basically these Republicans are killing babies every time they masturbate ..."

No, they prefer to wait until the babies are 18 or over. Then it switches to every dollar is sacred.

"human caviar" - New meaning to Roe vs. Wade.

In that case, heaven must be full of human caviar. A huge number of blastocysts spontaneously abort.

Yup. I've always thought the proper metric should be that life begins at the precise moment that a blastocyst becomes imbued with a soul. The spontaneous abortion of a blastocyst most likely happens before the blastocyst has got a soul attached to it.

That should be relatively easy to measure.

Except that the soul is actually a sequence of soul layers that starts before conception but isn't by any means complete at birth and gradually mixes together over the years.

I read a article the other day Drum wrote about Chait and The Big Con.

I agree with Chait in that the Republicans don't really care about abortion or the conservative issues. Its just lip service.

So basically these Republicans are killing babies every time they masturbate or slapping on a pair of diapers and filling them with semen.

Probably, if there are eggs wandering around at large in their palms or in said diapers. Wow, a conception in mano. Cool.

Depends on how much money you make....

Yikes, that was jaded, boyo.

Believe it or not, I've heard "have you accepted the lord?" used as a pickup line. Back in college a fellow of my acquaintance used to prey exclusively on born-agains. I think he initially took it as a special challenge, but had so much success that he maintained the approach.

Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.),

sorry, but I just have to delurk to ask you: "sperm washing"? What does this entail? Because I'm picturing you in a white lab coat and a pair of hip waders, with a little brush, scrubbing each sperm. You're holding them by their tails. I'm sure my vision is faulty somehow.

"It's the same ancient fear of women that drives so many fanatics."

It's not fear of women, it's fear of genetic dilution... which is a behavior genetically selected for by long human evolution.

In short, males that had innate behavorial tendencies which prevented their females from reproducing with other males had enhanced survival of their genes.

On the other hand, it is in the (genetic) interest of a female to breed with whatever male (or males) can provide the greatest survival benefits.

This the root of the fundemental conflict between the sexes. Males try to control females and females try to use the system to their own reproductive advantage.

Of course, these innate behaviors have been codified into the norms of many societies and religions.

Like religion itself, (read 'The God Gene') this is hard stuff to break as it kicks in deep-seated behaviors coded way down in the genes.

We are carrying behaviors that had survival value when the weapons humans possessed weren't capable of mass killing.

With nukes and bio-weapons plentiful, some group is probably going to pull the trigger over some ancient behaviors they neither understand or control.

Dunno if humans will survive long enough to evolve beyond this or not. The forces of darkness are charging hard and it's late in the game.

The Republican Presidential Contenders Tackle 'Evolution'
.
"When the Truth came knocking"

The moderator says to the assembled Republican Presidential contenders, "This is an open question for the candidates."

Evolution theory holds that man is a direct genetic descendant of hairy, arm swinging, tree climbing African apes who apparently survived despite having only crude rudimentary mental processing skills. The scientific process of carbon dating confirms the dates for such evolution and shows that man in this sense predates the Bible's time line by hundreds of thousands of years at a bare minimum. What is your opinion on the validity of carbon dating?

Romney: People will say there was a time that I embraced carbon dating but in my maturing process I have opened my eyes to how destructive liberal ideation can be to man's ascent. Junk science should not be employed to accelerate the decline of our moral virtues.

McCain: I am a firm believer that the age of the earth is a matter of state's rights.

Thompson: The media's obsession with my wife's youth has reached a new low. They're saying that she is in effect 'carbon dating' which I find offensive.

Brownie and Huckee (in unison): "Attacks on religious values are a staple of our opposition. Brothers and sisters, let us pray for God's hand to smite the ballot boxes of the heathen."

Giuliani: "Believing in evolution is weakness in the face of the enemy. It allows terrorist scum and their nine eleven democratic party appeasers amongst us to encircle our homes and maim our children. Science in pursuit of planetary wide war is to be exalted but to use it to appease Islamofascist aggression is treason. As I've previously said, nine or eleven times, I will only appoint judges that know the ramifications of using science in pursuit of weak kneed terrorist lovers.
- cognitorex -

Except that the soul is actually a sequence of soul layers that starts before conception but isn't by any means complete at birth and gradually mixes together over the years.

The obvious follow-up question is: is it to murder to kill someone without a soul, like Cheney, eg.

sorry, but I just have to delurk to ask you: "sperm washing"? What does this entail? Because I'm picturing you in a white lab coat and a pair of hip waders, with a little brush, scrubbing each sperm. You're holding them by their tails. I'm sure my vision is faulty somehow.

That's funny. I usually start the explanation by saying "first, you get a teeny-tiny bath brush."

Actually, it is a process involving diluent and a centrifuge by which the low-motility sperm and seminal fluid are removed, leaving only the healthy ones. The process is also used when a male is HIV positive and the couple wants to reproduce while minimizing the exposure to HIV to the female. IIRC, this was the process by which Magic Johnson and his wife had their children.

Thanks, Blue Girl. That's interesting.

But...a centrifuge? Don't they get dizzy?

Only the "Y"'s...

Actually, it is a process involving diluent and a centrifuge by which the low-motility sperm and seminal fluid are removed, leaving only the healthy ones.

But aren't the high motility sperm be able to swim against the gradient leaving the low motility sperm in the bottom of the tube and the high motiles in the lighter fluid which is removed at the top?

Blue Girl: ha ha ha.

Disputo: lighter fluid? Now I'm picturing a Zippo.

OK, back to lurking for me.

Join us more often!

Now, if I don't go to the market, we will be either living on take-out or starving. See y'all later...

You're a sweetie, and I love reading your posts. That's why I lurk.

Thanks Blue Girl, shortstop, thersites and Kenji...you and so many others always crack me up, and give me lines that I shamelessly parrot (with no attribution) to my non-Washington Monthly reading friends.

But to get serious: I have been playing Cassandra for twenty years now, warning anyone who will listen that the right's real goal (as mentioned upthread) is really Griswold, not Roe. And what do I get? Even the homeless people run when they see me coming.

Buford on August 24, 2007 at 3:46 PM:

Very nicely said. Thanks. If I had a brain, and time, I'd have maybe thought it out half as well. I keep meaning to look at "The God Gene," but it keeps scrolling off the list.

The agenda is to go after abortion (using partial birth abortion as the toe in the door), then contraception. Next will be divorce. Wait until you here the howls then. But after all isn't divorce the biggest threat to marriage there is???

Next will be divorce.

Won't happen, given that born-again Christians divorce at a higher rate than the general population:

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/baptist_divorce.html

Not surprising, when you think about it . . .

Not long ago these guys were pushing for a law that required proof of marriage before a couple could obtain a hotel room. But, yeah, I can see them outlawing divorce, and then come up with some church-sponsored [don't-call-it-] divorce in which the foul hussy who spawned the separation is shorn of all joint assets.

I think he initially took it as a special challenge, but had so much success that he maintained the approach.

I've got friends who are in to all sorts of kinky stuff, and that's the most perverse fetish I've heard of in some time.

I guess the Know Nothing movement has been proven correct, that Catholics don't really assimilate and retain primary allegiance to the Pope and his dogma rather than to the Constitution and religious freedom.

Know Nothing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Know Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to American values and controlled by the Pope in Rome.

Let them make the claim that pregancy begins at conception. We can then claim that God aborts more babies than man. Fertilized eggs are more often flushed out of the body as a result of natural monthly cycles.