But if we gave everybody health care, do you realize what that would do to the price of anonymous airport blowjobs?

Our wretched private healthcare system has turned us into a nation of spiteful and small-minded misanthropes.

But this is what the radical right wants, a nation of beggars fighting for table scraps.

The worst example of that beggar thy neighbor stuff was those grocery store strikes they had when I lived in California. I could not believe how the media seemed outraged that mere grocery store clerks had affordable health insurance, and how easily the public ate it up. I really came to think less of Californians after that.

Larry Craig? That was yesterday's news. I want fresh meet! McConnell! Graham! Dreier! Hastert?! Brownback??! Surely there must be a few more "open secrets" that the washington insiders could share with us.

I would happily pay for universal healthcare just so I never had to read an op-ed like this again. It's not that Williamson doesn't have a point, it's just that this beggar-thy-neighbor attitude is enough to make me retch, and I see it all the time.

It's not a "beggar thy neighbor" attitude. It reflects a budget reality. Until the federal government funds all schools at the same (regionally adjusted) levels, you can't expect otherwise strapped school districts to give full health care benefits to people working 15-hours a week when they don't have the scratch to pay for enough teachers.

Of course, if parents really cared about their children, they wouldn't let them eat the crap that most schools serves anyway, thus significantly reducing the food service labor pressures on districts.

But, providing healthcare would reduce the amount of money available for installing bidets - So, without them, there is that nagging problem of paper on the floor.

And, we now return to that Family Values Seminar in Boise, where they are taking very wide stances on the Defense of Marriage Act.

It's not that Williamson doesn't have a point, it's just that this beggar-thy-neighbor attitude is enough to make me retch, and I see it all the time. I don't get dental coverage, so why should grocery workers?

And why is that such a bad attitude? As the Golden Rule says, do onto others as they do onto you. All people of faith and value voters believe in the Golden Rule. Since normal people do not receive free health care, why should the cafeteria workers? Giving the cafeteria workers free health care would give them something other people don't have and therefore would violate the Golden Rule. So it would be wrong to do it.

Today, though, public workers generally get higher salaries and better benefits and more vacation and earlier retirement and more lucrative pension packages compared to comparable private sector workers.

I worked for DFAS for 3 years, and I can say with authority the higher salaries part certainly isn't true for DFAS workers.

Geez, Al - I thought you lived by George's Golden Rule, i.e., the Code of the West - Do unto others, before they can do it to you.

The right wing does not want poor people to get health care - they seem to prefer that the poor die out. Many of the poor are non-white and with good health care they might breed the whites out of existence.

I like it when you find some intensity and passion for an issue. Especially this one.

Yay! More Kevin Drum crotchety-old-man fist-shaking at "executives"!

I agree with bobbyk, from experience. And our benefits and pay get whittled bit by bit with management tricks. And it's not like we've got any of those things anytime in the recent past. It's just that the private sector workers had better pay and bennies, and they lost the bennies and are losing the pay advantage. Apparenlty they're waiting for us public sector employees to go get them back for them. Sorry folks, you need to unionize, and you need to stop crossing picket lines.

Since normal people do not receive free health care

Normal People? Free Health Care?

I guess that excludes military and politicos. No one gets "Free" healthcare, they get insurance coverage. Not the same thing and we need to stop talking and thinking it is the same thing. If a group of workers can band together to try and get something, more power to them. The Repubs want a dog eat dog world, so let's set the dogs loose.

Or get universal healthcare (not insurance).

My Plan:

Kill Medicaid.
Kill Medicare.
Kill ALL drug-company R&D pork, including NSF funding, and also kill drug patents. No more drug patents.

Take all the money that was spent on these programs, and build National Medical Schools. Train as many Medical Doctors in all disciplines as possible - including, teaching, so we can teach more. If the AMA protests, line them up against a wall and shoot them. Flood the market with cheap labor. Doctors who want to be doctors to help people - not Doctors who want to be doctors to collect Porsches.

If we were to do this - we would not need a National Health Insurance system, hell, nobody would NEED insurance at all, and the health insurance industry would just go away. The drug companies would still develop drugs. Necessity is the mother of invention. Not a 33% guaranteed rate of return.

What is it about a raving lunatic mindlessly babbling on the street corner that holds our attention. I'm referring to the ravings of AL. Maybe Al has never seen the experiment where rats were slowly added to a container to watch how they'd act. With ever increasing speed the more rats added the more violence and vile behavior increased. Maybe we don't haver to act like those rats AL.

"And why is that such a bad attitude?"

Al, you're beautiful. You know why progressives dislike that attitude; instead of focusing on the fact that resources that were formerly directed toward workers are now going to Stephen Schwarzman or Henry Kravis, the corporatist media focuses on the low level public sector workers lucky enough to maintain a shred of dignity. Al, you know that whining about the "lucky cafetria worker" won't bring anybody health care coverage; it will emrely result in fewer people with coverage. However focusing on the massive resources being devoted to hucksters, schiesters, and scam artists on wall strett might cause fundamental change in our society.

I just love the false choice logic at work here: if you give the workers health care, that necessarily means taking food out of the mouths of the kids. No chance of, say, increasing expenditures, I suppose. Or raising taxes. Or whatever. Nope...it's screw the workers or starve the kids, those are your two choices.

Funny that taking food out of the kids' mouths never seems to be the suggested way to pay for things like the Iraq War.

Kevin wrote: "Our wretched private healthcare system has turned us into a nation of spiteful and small-minded misanthropes."

On the contrary, the USA's wretched private so-called "healthcare" system is the deliberate creation of a tiny group of ultra-rich, spiteful and small-minded misanthropes, and its purpose is not to provide "healthcare" but to further enrich and empower the already rich and powerful. From their point of view it is working very, very well.

It cannot be said enough times: This attitude that you are describing is the true legacy of Ronald Reagan.

The important thing is to help yacht and airplane purchasers keep the costs down by
exempting them from sales taxes.
...Schwarzenegger also chose to cut a highly regarded program to lift mentally ill people from skid row. The $54.9 million allowed more than 30 counties, including Los Angeles, to help the homeless stabilize instead of returning them to the street or to jail. The governor acknowledged the program's value but told counties they should just backfill with money from Proposition 63 -- a ballot measure that by its terms bars counties from using its revenue for backfill.
...While crafting this year's budget, the Legislature restored a loophole that allows owners of yachts, airplanes and recreational vehicles to avoid what amounts to $45 million a year in sales taxes. In the twisted logic of Sacramento, serving rich yachters is vital. Protecting California's most vulnerable is an unaffordable luxury.
Ah, those Republican priorities. Bless them each and every one. [/sarcasm]

Yay! More Kevin Drum crotchety-old-man fist-shaking at "executives"!

I second this.

Another display of this behavior that really stuck in my craw was during the NY subway strike last Christmas. To a person, everyone in my wingnut family -- who live nowhere near NYC -- was outraged that the MTA workers would want anything more than subsistance wages "just to drive a train." Truly, it's the attitude of aristocrats toward serfs: they should be thankful for what they have and stop being so uppity.

Yeah, this reminds me of the situation at my business, a non-profit with 100 employees. Healthcare costs are skyrocketing. The powers that be decided to change to a health savings account-type plan that is horrible for lower-end workers, for the sick, etc., and just generally means a pay cut for most of us.

But I can hardly blame the administrators for making this choice, given the horrible choices they have in front of them. It's a systemic problem, and every actor in the health care economy has only bad options. Oh, every actor except the insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

Gee, I wonder why Commander in Codpiece's tax cuts didn't make the pie high enough to both provide decent school lunches for the children of California and provide health benefits to the lunch makers?

Only one solution--more tax cuts!

/sarcasm

It cannot be said enough times: This attitude that you are describing is the true legacy of Ronald Reagan.

It's an ugly feature of human nature, and an old one. Lucretius said two thousand years ago nothing is more satisfying than standing on a headland looking out over a stormy sea, observing a sinking ship, and saying to oneself, 'Hey, I'm not on the ship.'

Reagan still was a bastard, though.

Well, let those children in LA eat more Reagan era vegatables, i.e., ketchup.

But, as an aside to healthcare issues, sorry that Straight Talk, a recovering cancer victim, was unable to meet with others at the Lance Armstrong Cancer Seminar in Cedar Rapids, IA. Due to budget cuts, Greyhound has had to suspend regular service to that city. But, couldn't he have hopped a freight?

"As the Golden Rule says, do onto others as they do onto you."

What church did you go to, Al? The Golden Rule as I was taught it states "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Big difference there, Al.

[trolling deleted]

"their unions, bulging with money and political influence, will demand that cafeteria workers and school custodians and gardeners and plumbers and guards etc. get paid vacations the same as teachers do (in the spirit of socialist solidarity) and then generous retirement benefits."

MHR, you're right! If there's one thing that those lucky cafeteria workers and janitors don't deserve, its a vacation. Every day is a vacation for those folks, being allowed to serve food to and clean up after our greatful, polite youth. If there's another thing they don't deserve, its retirement benefits. why, you don't have to be young to sprinkle limestone on vomit!! Lets make them work until death!

Kevin, I thought you had this just right. A pet peeve of mine, too. I had a conversation with the mayor of my town about this very point last year, but wasn't as articulate as you. And was surrounded by taxpayers not eager to keep generously funding the healthcare of municipal workers. The argument for fairness seems very theoretical when people are facing real budgets. Making healthcare a right obviously won't make it free, but it would reduce the incentives for nastiness you've so neatly captured.

Mike Rogers said on Ed Schulz that Craig has certain distinguishing characteristics that all three credible accusers cited. None of the three knew the other.

No details on what the characteristics are..I suspect we'll hear soon.

I have said this before, the upper middle class does not want to increase their opportunity costs or share healthcare benefits with people not deemed as worthy economically as they are. Part time workers who help to feed children do not provide society enough benefits to earn decent healthcare in America. This attitude is being extended to the bottom 40%. It is this attitude by the politically powerful that prevents universal healthcare from being implemented in the US.

Al

CEO's make millions per year. By your reasoning, shouldn't the rest of us too?

Today, though, public workers generally get higher salaries and better benefits and more vacation and earlier retirement and more lucrative pension packages compared to comparable private sector workers.

Love this whole post, Kevin, except for this one statement. As someone who moved from the private sector to the public sector 3 years ago, I can say this higher salary thing is NOT true. At least not in public health/social science research. I stay because I get great health care, good leave time and retirement, and I love serving the state. However, I could make significantly more money in the private sector. State health divisions do not pay their folks very much unless they have an MD.

Al: "And why is that such a bad attitude?"

Hey, loser, this is why Frank Capra never made movies about people like you. Well, there was Mr. Potter.

Making healthcare a right obviously won't make it free, but it would reduce the incentives for nastiness you've so neatly captured.
Posted by: Bill Camarda on August 28, 2007 at 12:47 PM
---
Yes, and reducing that nastiness would boost psychic income-YES nastiness *does* have a COST. Universal health care would also increase freedom in a lot of ways-to work at the job you want to, start your own business, care for a sick parent, etc. That lack of freedom also has a COST.

Kevin, thanks for the link to that Edwards speech. Voted for him in 2004, will vote for him in 2008. A bit off topic, but from the speech:
"And let's support our troops and end this war in Iraq. We should immediately withdraw 40-50,000 combat troops immediately and have the rest out in about a year. "

Go Edwards!

CEO's make millions per year. By your reasoning, shouldn't the rest of us too?
Posted by: tomeck on August 28

Yes, it would be nice if we could all make millions.

At what point does one accept that someone making more than others is just a selfish pig? The Republicans made much of the fact that Saddam had 25 castles while his people starved. This is some of the most disgusting "politics of envy" I have ever heard. If Saddam was worth billions in the free market for dictators, then he was properly compensated as a leader.

I think it's asinine to make health care a function of employment, and I think it's a business competitive disadvantage to make employers have to hire health care administrators, and I think it's a waste of medical resources and dollars to make physicians have to hire insurance administrators.

So I agree with Al, it's stupid to have the School Board OR any employer offer the part time or full time workers health care benefits. Like Al, I agree that health care benefits should just available, freely, universally.

It's a shame that Kevin doesn't see it this way.

As the Golden Rule says, do onto others as they do onto you.

That not the Golden Rule as expressed by Jesus.

In fact, that's one of the Seven Keys of Satanism.

by al's interpretation of the golden rule, we should all dump a bunch of garbage on his head — just as he does it to us.

Yes, it would be nice if we could all make millions.
Posted by: luther on August 28, 2007 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

Yes.

Ghandi said: "It is not important, what you do. It is extremely important that you do it."

However, it is not "extremely important" enough that you be compensated enough to survive.

I know I'll be shouted down for this, but I'll give it a shot anyways. Did someone that works 15 hours a week earn full health care coverage? At any job, you get paid for the work you do. Health insurance is very expensive, estimates have non-cash compensation equal to about 50% of base salary for full-time workers (I.e. if you make $60K a year, your benefits, like health insurance, vacation, etc is worth about $30K on top of that).

Why should someone that works less than 40% of a normal 40 hour week get the same benefits as a full-time worker? It's essentially equivalent to a doubling of their salary. If they asked for the straight cash equivalent instead of health insurance (to reduce the emotional appeal), would you be as supportive of a doubling of cafeteria workers' salaries? To me, this seems wasteful of taxpayer dollars.

I couldn't find the word "premium" anywhere in the LA Times article. I'm assuming they would still have to fork out 20% of the premium for their insurance every week. Also need to remember two things:
1) There are people who do no work at all that get health care benefits-retired, Medicaid, disability, etc.
2) With the health care coverage, preventative care will reduce higher costs that otherwise get paid by everybody sooner or later.

thethirdpaul: "Geez, Al - I thought you lived by George's Golden Rule, i.e., the Code of the West - Do unto others, before they can do it to you."

Well, just don't get caught doing it in a men's room stall at the airport.

Actually, it's okay if it's a black man in the toilet. Just ask Rush -- he has an answer or everything. (And that answer, in a word, is hate.)

Mo >"I know I'll be shouted down for this, but I'll give it a shot anyways...To me, this seems wasteful of taxpayer dollars."

A reasonable approach on the surface but, like the faux monetary systems we have, one totally ignorant of reality and the externalities of the situation.

Money, as currently used, is nowhere near a reasonable indicator of anything other than, maybe, a willingness to play a greedy hand in a rigged game of blackjack.

Educate thyself !

"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day." - Thomas Jefferson

I don't care if this attitude has been an ugly feature of human nature for 15,000 years. In modern times, it was not until the Reagan "Americans must FEEL GOOD about themselves at any cost" years that such apathy and greed was embraced by the American population at large as philosophy for living.

There was a time when the American workers felt solidarity with each other. But St. Ronald "Da Union-buster" Reagan made short work of that generousity of spirit.

Like the other public sector workers who have commented here, I concur that the salary is not that great compared to the private sector, but the benefits certainly are.

Kevin, your article was specific to heath benefits, but the same applies when the issue is defined retirement benefits - which can only (almost) be found in the public sector anymore. The hue and cry is, why do those workers deserve such benefits? In fact, what the "general public" (the roughly 2/3rds-plus that work in the private sector) should be asking is, why can't I get those goodies, too?

Leftwing arrogance ahoy: "But their annoyance would be better directed not at the lucky public sector workers.."

Oi. The poor misguided fools who work in the private sector and, you know, produce stuff. No need to focus on those overpaid, coddled public sector folks, nothing to look at here guys, move along... It's not like WE actually pay their salaries, benefits, vacations, and all the rest, after all.

Jesus.

And, "mahogany row executives"??? Is it talk-in-cliches-till-the-cows-come-home-day and I missed it? You couldn't cram in top hats and monocles, too? This kind of stuff is exactly why the Edwards campaign is so smokin hot right now...

Simon the first: no more cliches!

Simon the second: "Producers!" "Coddled!" "We pay their salaries!"

Inescapable Conclusion: Simon enjoys cognitive dissonence, and is a grumpy white guy.

The "lucky public service workers" my ass! They're organized. Like the private sector used to before globalization and outsourcing and union-busting. No benefits were given to public service workers; they organized and fought for them. And my union taught them how.

Retired UAW-CIO member.

"Our wretched private healthcare system has turned us into a nation of spiteful and small-minded misanthropes."

HAS turned us into?
I don't recall the US being the land of concern for one's fellow man, pretty much since white non-Vikings landed here.
Ever heard of what happened to the native Americans? Ever heard of slavery? Ever heard of how the Chinese were treated? While the rest of the western world was trying to figure out how to build a better society, from the 1920s or so through the 1950s, the US was spending all its energy ranting about communism.

Osama_been_forgotten:

I've been having the same thought as you for the past 30 years. (Except for shooting protesting AMA members.)

But close the extra medical schools when the rate of unemployment for doctors is equal to the national unemployment rate. We don't want those unemployed doctors taking jobs driving cabs or flipping burgers.

I took a state government job when I was laid off from the private sector. 20% lower salary, equal retirement, worse vacation, health care, and other benefits. Oh, and the legislature imposed a two year salary freeze. Now I am back in the private sector - I just could not make it on the government salary. The only tangible advantage for working for the state - NO overtime expected.

The right wing does not want poor people to get health care - they seem to prefer that the poor die out.

That's not quite right. The right doesn't much care one way or another whether the poor, or anyone else not themselves, gets health care. What they are opposed to is the poor (or workers more generally) having security, whether it is retirement security in the form of secure, defined-benefit social security or pension programs, health security in the form of affordable (public or private) health insurance with decent coverage, or any of the other forms of security that other developed countries provide for their citizens.

And the reasons they don't want people to have security is that they want them to live in fear, to be desperately attached to their jobs, and to lack the energy and will to challenge the political and economic order.

cmdicely, Spot-on post there. The current crop of whip-crackers are the foot-draggers that are the true terrorists. Economic terrorism. The irony is if we reduced their power (of faux-efficiencies) and influence the economy would improve because everyday working people would have the freedom from economic fear to pursue their best abilities and ambitions.

[Trolling Deleted]