South Carolina? It is a totally hopeless state. It is filled with vicious racists and unrepentent nigger haters. It's where my uncle lives. It's the home of that dreadful place, Bob Jones "University."

When I was in school, I went to my uncle's house for thanksgiving. My uncle was raised in IL, went to Lake Forest University, and got his MBA from U Chicago. So, I find a picture of him in a CONFEDERATE uniform. I was appalled.

"What is it about South Carolina, anyway?"

The Carolinas were originally settled by plantation owners from the West Indies who had burned out their own lands and transplanted their estates, including slaves, and apparently their attitudes, to the mainland entire. So they don't exactly have Penn or Oglethorpe for referents.
See also John C. Calhoun, the "Wanderer" and "Bloody Edgefield".

ouch on the "n" word, Lib.

What is it about South Carolina, anyway?

Um, are you kidding? We've only had a 150 years of problems from them.

It's not just South Carolina. My daughter-in-law in New Mexico was forwarding the same emails. She listens to Christian radio and thinks Vince Foster was murdered, but anyway...it's not just South Carolina.

The funny thing about South Carolina is that it has sent Lindsay Graham to the Senate.

First of all, as a nice liberal from South Carolina, y'all can all go to hell with the nasty comments about SC. I’ll bet anything that Abner Louima and Amadou Diallo would have rather been arrested in South Carolina than NYC. Spare everyone down here the lectures on how “backward” we are until you get your own house in order.

Second of all, if Politico had bothered to research the story AT ALL they would have found that this Obama as a Muslim story has been a widespread meme on conservative blogs. Heck, even on here, I've seen wingers leave comments about "Barry Hussein Obama." The editors at RedState consistently refer to him that way.

What is it about South Carolina, anyway?

...and what is it about our media that does such a lousy job informing the public with actual facts? (How many people still think Saddam attacked us on 9/11?)

What Trypticon said.
Even when used as Lib uses it, with implied quotation marks, n*****er is much more offensive than the goold old Anglo_saxon words for defecation or copulation. Call me PC if you want to.

Another n*****r-lover.

Did you see Novak's column, showing that the blood-thirsty "Catholics" are supporting pro-gay, pro-choice, serial adulterer Rudy?

man, there are regressive troglodytes and moral heroes in every neck of the woods, the world over, including South Carolina. Kind of hard to make sweeping statements about 4 million people. Seems like the GOP down there are particularly putrid, but that's not likely confined to South Carolina.

I for one support Obama in the hopes that he will establish the capitol of the new Caliphate in Washington DC, and use his Bush created executive powers to surveil, harass, detain, torture, and seize the property of white Christians across this great nation of ours.

There is only one G-d, and Obama is his president!

The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out;

Awww, c'mon, W has been doing this for years.

I'm sticking with that word. That is how SOUTH CAROLINIANS think. That's the mind-set.

It's ugly, and it's true. More bad shit happens in South Carolina than almost any other state. There is South Caroline, Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama. Those four states are DEFINED by racial politics. It's ALL about keeping the niggers under control. Because it they ain't under control, dem white women are NOT SAFE, you know.

Why is no one asking the pertinent question, which is, where did the whisper campaign originate?

I won't press the argument with POed Lib on his/her choice of words, but I do want to point out that I've been more than once called a n****r-lover in "liberal" Massachusetts, so I'm not going to single out South Carolina or any other Southern state.

I second Nicholas' point. Who's behind it? At this point Obama's only competing with Democrats. If anyone associated with Clinton is involved it would be an Extremely Big Deal.

Fort Sumter is in South Carolina.

What a coincidence.

From the same Politico piece: Schlussel’s theme [“Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always a Muslim”] was picked up in the Unification Church-owned online magazine Insight the next month, which reported, with no named sources but a political twist, that Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign was pushing a story about Obama’s Muslim heritage.

What next? Mysterious phone calls about Michelle the Pillpopper and illegitimate babies from Bangladesh?

Kevin asks: "What is it about South Carolina?"

Better question: What is it about Clinton?

Clinton campaign: "We're all about winning. What worked for Bush will work for us."

In 2000, the whisper campaign that sunk a candidacy was the South Carolina push poll about John McCain's illegitimate black baby.

Worse than that, I hear that Barack Obama has fathered not one but several black children with a black woman....

Oy, POed

Repeating hate speech is still hate speech. The word can be referenced and condemned indirectly more effectively than when propagating it.

I think it's generally accepted in public discussion at this point that using that word isn't even so great if you are a black person addressing a black person colloquially in private, even in the spirit of the rehabilitation of oppressive hate words, like "queer" etc. If the word is used in any broader context, or especially in a mixed/white/open anonymous forum setting, if one uses the term one can reasonably expect to be labeled a racist, or at least someone who uses racist language. At best it is a distraction, at worst, well, it's just offensive racism.

I'd expect anyone with Lib in the handle would have completely internalized this, so your insistence on using it leads me to think maybe you're a troll, trying to make libs look bad. If you really are a Lib, hey man, there more important things to fight for than the right to say stuff that other people find wildly offensive.

As many troglodytes as there likely are in the SC GOP, I bet there are millions of South Carolinians of every race and political stripe who wouldn't be so rude and graceless.

We can look the devil in the eye in SC or NYC or wherever, but we don't have to mimic/act like one to prove how much we get it.

I hear that Barack Obama has fathered not one but several black children with a black woman....

Actually, by the "one drop" rule you could easily say that Obama has fathered several white children with a black woman.

Er, no. The "one drop" rule only worked one way. The slightest hint of black heritage meant you were black, but not therefore vice versa.

Whisper campaigns can be started against Republican politicians. Call up some Republicans and whisper to them that your local Republican representative or senator wants to send their children to Iraq to serve in W. Bush's mission with a draft.

What is it about South Carolina, anyway?

According to a survey of recent studies conducted by the University of South Carolina's Institute for Public Service and Policy Research South Carolina ranks at or near the bottom of the United States in terms of secondary school graduation rates.

I know that, Stefan. It's called irony.

This has been circulating since 2006:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

if you wanna start a whisper campaign against a Republican, try:

Some people say that so-and-so, while declaring himself/herself to be a family values Christian patriot, has actually frequented male and female prostitutes both in Washington DC, the home district, and bathrooms in between for the last ten years. he/she was recently saved from death by auto asphyxiation when discovered expiring hog-tied and duct taped in a diving suit with a large foreign object in a body cavity by agents executing a warrant investigating his/her direct ties to corrupt Iraq war profiteering.

more than likely you'd be right.

State motto: South Carolina, First in Secession!

"The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out; what better way to start than at the highest level?"

So, Muslims were behind W. It all makes sense now...

Actually, by the "one drop" rule you could easily say that Obama has fathered several white children with a black woman.

It only holds in one direction, not both.

ouch on the "n" word, Lib.

Oh, come on. We're all adults here.

Who benefits the most from this 'whisper' campaign?

Is this Karl Rove attempting to wreck Obama because he believes Hillary is the candidate most likely to be defeated by a Republican in the General Election and Obama is the most likely to wipe the floor with Rudy/Mitt/Fred?

Or

Is someone in the Hillary camp using a page out of Karl Rove's SC strategy handbook?

there more important things to fight for than the right to say stuff that other people find wildly offensive.

I'd argue there are more important things to fight for than investing strung-together letters with such power that the word it spells cannot dare be said. That's in the kaballah, right?

I'll stand up for your right to say n****er but I would rather you wouldn't. How's that?

BTW this is worth repeating, since people don't seem to get it. I know darn well the "one drop" rule traditionally only runs one way. My comment was meant as an ironic commentary on the idiocy behind that notion.

Ask yourself why it only runs one way. Meditate upon it, and then tell me if we're still living in a racist wonderland or not.

Is someone in the Hillary camp using a page out of Karl Rove's SC strategy handbook?

Or is someone playing a really subtle game to discredit the Hillary camp?

"Oh, come on. We're all adults here."

"adult" as in, "jaded and perversely committed to replicating hate speech in a public forum to show how liberated from hate speech you are as you bravely reveal the full ugliness of racism by not shrinking from its terms"?

or

"adult" as in "capable of comprehensive understanding of complex social realities and making appropriate contributions?"

I'd guess by any definition we're not all adults here...

You have no idea how difficult it is to be a liberal in South Carolina, and when you condemn the entire state you are including some very courageous people in your insults, including James Clyburn, Stephen Colbert, Inez Tenenenbaum, and Bob Coble. That said, the Republicans here are friggin' nuts, the decendants of the fire-eaters who started the Civil War, and don't get me started on B.J. University.

Thersites, you and the Mrs. are welcome to be our guests at dinner any time, and should anyone comment on anyones choice of company, I would likely be the one being bailed out of jail at the end of the evening.

It's ugly, and it's true. More bad shit happens in South Carolina than almost any other state. There is South Caroline, Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama. Those four states are DEFINED by racial politics. It's ALL about keeping the niggers under control. Because it they ain't under control, dem white women are NOT SAFE, you know.

At least you aren't making any sweeping generalizations. I mean, your uncle lives there (and you went to his house once) so I guess you're the expert.

An American politician with a middle name of Himmler would have a problem. The name Hussein also carries baggage. Leftists have spread so many conspiracy theories that it's ironic one of their own would get stuck in the swamp Obama's fellow Democrats have created.

Thanks, BG. (But with a Strat player, ferchrissakes? I don't think so;)

And yes, I know that this country is full of people that aren't racist. But too many white people (including myself, for a long time) are in denial about how persistent and ugly the problem remains. Sen. Obama seems like a decent man, and I wish him all the luck in the world, but I doubt if he can be elected.

I want to bring up the flip side of this issue. I can think of nothing that will help more to improve the world's view of America than electing Obama. The symbolic importance of being the son of a Kenyan and attending Islamic schools in Indonesian cannot be overstated. It shows that the US is not against them as a people because we have elected one of "them" as our president. It also will clearly show that America is an open meritocracy rather than the closed dynastic society as represented by George W. and to a lesser degree Hillary.

Stefan you stole my joke!

I'd agree both with Juanita that the N word is overly hyped, and thersites saying "I'll stand up for your right to say n****er but I would rather you wouldn't."

not trying to be an etiquette nazi (horrible debasing of world historical party of evil, yes wicked me), it's just there's really no need to toss the word around. It need not be fetishized or banned, I would just assume that whatever point needs to be made can be made without tossing it around, and persisting in doing so, knowing that it will be offensive to people, especially people you might otherwise have common cause with. I'd say a majority of people, especially progressives, would instinctively find the word rude and offensive and persistent use of it more revelatory of conflicts within the speaker than the speaker might think.

But hey, it's a free country, so offend away...

you white trash boy rapist meth head mother fuckers.

just keepin it real, yo. that's just what they say out on the stoop. just passin' it on. no offense, really... we're all adults here.

peace.

Posted by: thersites on October 15, 2007 at 4:08 PM | PERMALINK

Too true, my friend, too true.

That was one of the "rude awakenings" I was in for well into my adulthood, having grown up in an integrated military, and staying in that system for so damned long, and spending my own career climbing the GS ladder; when my career shifted to the civilian sector before I went ahead and said "fuck it, I've got enough, I'll leave some for the next guy or gal" and retired young; I was shocked by the racism I encountered.

It need not be fetishized or banned, I would just assume that whatever point needs to be made can be made without tossing it around...

What Trypticon said. (See, we are retired young, and have no little person (grandchild) around today, so we made chili and started drinking early, and the proper words flat-out evaded me.)

Trypticon, I resent being called a meth head ;-)

It's ugly, and it's true. More bad shit happens in South Carolina than almost any other state. There is South Caroline, Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama. Those four states are DEFINED by racial politics. It's ALL about keeping the niggers under control. Because it they ain't under control, dem white women are NOT SAFE, you know.

Give me a damn break. Where did most of the race riots of the 1970's occur? Big hint: the north. Where does most of the really egregious police brutality towards African-Americans occur: the north. Where did those six kids get railroaded for the Central Park jogger rape case: the north.

South Carolina isn't perfect, but my African-American friends tell me that they get a lot more grief in the blue state of NY than they do down here.

Disputo: Stefan you stole my joke!

What? Was it somewhere earlier in the thread that I missed?

Hey, I heard that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.

What? Was it somewhere earlier in the thread that I missed?

Nah... from a couple weeks ago. Great minds and all that.

The other Obama smear making the rounds on the right-wing smear circuit is that Obama has a "black separatist background". I heard it on the Michael Weiner (Savage) radio show over the weekend at my barber. Not sure where they got that little gem, but truth is not real important to the wing-nutters....

Obama's name is perfect for smearing and there are states like SC which simply have a lot of racists.

OTOH, it's hard to smear Republican politicians because everyone already knows they're mostly scum.

Whether the Clinton campaign would subtly smear Obama isn't clear to me. I don't know that campaign well enough.

Seems to me you bypass a lot of crap by electing Edwards and ignoring the rest of 'em.

John Edwards -- Uniting America!

About South Carolina, one of the Palmetto State's leaders allegedly said that he was really worried about his native state during the run-up to the Civil War: "We are too small to be a nation and too large to be an insane asylum." Or something like that. Evidently the latter isn't true.

The other Obama smear making the rounds on the right-wing smear circuit is that Obama has a "black separatist background".

That crap is the racist wingnut perception of the fact that Obama's church, which is located in a primarily black neighborhood, encourages it's black members to have a positive self-image (to counter the racist crap from fuckwads like Savage that blacks are inferior).

Whether the Clinton campaign would subtly smear Obama isn't clear to me. I don't know that campaign well enough.

Well, if the Kerry campaign could stoop to whispering around that Dean is married to a (heaven forbid!) non-Christian (aka Jew), I have no doubt that the HRC campaign is up to the task of distributing the "Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent" meme.

It's not just SC, and it's not just the Christians. Obama is the only Democratic candidate that my Jewish sister-in-law (born Episcopal, converted when she married a Jew) in the 'burbs of Cleveland will not vote for under any circumstance. The reason? She has been convinced by people in her temple that he is a Muslim, and will continue with the extermination of the tribe if elected. I had a few classes with Barack in law school and have spoken to him on a number occasions (last time was when he was running for the dem nomination for the senate in early 2004), but my whole "I actually know the guy, and he won't try to kill your kids" assurances have not been well-taken.

My guess? This stems more from the old northeastern black/Jewish bloodfeud than anything. Though I thought that was mostly confined to New York.

What's the problem? They are ignorant and celebrate that ignorance proudly. We should have let them secede from the union. We would all be better off. We then could actually elect a president that didn't talk like Jethro Bodine. Is it too late to let them go now?

Or is someone playing a really subtle game to discredit the Hillary camp?

That's a new one. Anything that looks like some plan to knock one of Hillary's rivals out of the campaign is really a secret Republican plot to make Hillary look like the sort of person who would try to knock her rivals out of a campaign.

For Hillary, this kind of thing would be right down her alley.

Incidentally, getting past all the PC fog, the most valid reason for avoiding the use of the "n-word" around here would be to avoid unwelcome attention from search engines, and "nutpickers" who will use the comments out of context to hammer this site. The latter is a well-known tactic on both sides of the blogosphere.

Myself, I wouldn't care if Obama was Muslim. Obviously, though, a lot of our fearful countrymen would. The framing of this rumor stinks of Karl Rove--Hillary's new BFF.

I like Obama and hate to say this, but: If he has an electability problem, it would be better for someone else to take the top spot. Yes, that's cold, but even if not his fault we have to win this time. If that means Hillary, so be it, but I'd rather it was Gore or Mark Warner.

"The latter is a well-known tactic on both sides of the blogosphere."

ROFL.... Actually, dear it's a well-known tactic of those on the right, not the left, which is why you, as usual, cannot back up your silly assertions. Moreover, it's a favorite tactic of Republican leaders and pundits, as well, not just those in the blogosphere.

The only thing I know about South Carolina is Steve Spurrier coaches the football team.

I like Obama and hate to say this, but: If he has an electability problem, it would be better for someone else to take the top spot. Yes, that's cold, but even if not his fault we have to win this time. If that means Hillary, so be it, but I'd rather it was Gore or Mark Warner.

Crap on that. Electability worries gave us Kerry, and we see where that put us. Screw electability, give me someone who will plain fight for us and for themselves.

What is it about a man like McCain who would maintain allegiance to a Party which indulged in a whisper campaign asserted his adopted Bangladeshi daughter was an illegitimate black child?

Obama's name is perfect for smearing and there are states like SC which simply have a lot of racists.

And they aren't just the red states.

The heart of southern rebellion.

Robert Jordan was about the only good thing in that state and he just died.

I say, evacuate the Americans from there, pack it with the racists and religious nutbars in the country, then let it succeed.

Okay, made me look it up.

SC state motto: "Dum Spiro Spero" - While I breathe, I hope

It does contain the word "dum."

I guess I have to ask, who would decide not to support/vote for Obama, based on this innuendo? McCain, a republican, seems to me to be far more vulnerable to a Roving than Obama. True, his hopes of receiving the republican nomination seem fainter than ever.

Just askin'