China isn't going away just because we'd like them to.

no, but McCain is.

China isn't going away just because we'd like them to.

no, but McCain is. Posted by: cleek

Not nearly fast enough, though. Don't forget that he's the foreign policy mastermind who thinks that Japan and S. Korea ought to be pursuing nuclear arms.

You know, he's probably about the right speed for representing Arizona, in the state legislature. But idiots like him really need to be kept out of national politics.

if china went away who would finance the national debt?

Kevin, China is bad, but what about Russia? Russia is supporting and aiding Iran in its quest for nuclear domination of the Middle East. Putin attacked America for trying to build a nuclear shield around Eastern Europe to protect itself against a nuclear attack from Iran.
As Secretary of State Rice has said, the concentration of power in Putin and the executive branch and the control of the media by Putin is destroying democratic institutions in Russia and must be halted so that a real democracy may take hold in Russia.

www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3726222

"In any country, if you don't have countervailing institutions, the power of any one president is problematic for democratic development"
"I think there is too much concentration of power in the Kremlin. I have told the Russians that. Everybody has doubts about the full independence of the judiciary. There are clearly questions about the independence of the electronic media and there are, I think, questions about the strength of the Duma"

Kevin, China is bad, but what about Russia? Russia is supporting and aiding Iran in its quest for nuclear domination of the Middle East. Posted by: Al

So?

Kevin, are Americans really "tired of being hamstrung by a UN that gives Sudan and Libya as big a voice in the General Assembly as Germany and the United States." Do they even know enough about it to care? Or is it mostly the crackpots who bridle at the idea U.S. power being curtailed by anyone anywhere?

who are tired of being hamstrung by a UN that gives Sudan and Libya as big a voice in the General Assembly as Germany and the United States. who are tired of being hamstrung by a UN that gives Sudan and Libya as big a voice in the General Assembly as Germany and the United States.

Replace Sudan with Wyoming, Libya with Texas, and General Assembly with US senate and you get a situation that most poeple that hate the UN for that very reson think it is a plus when put into practice in the US. Of course the reason they like it in the US is because it protects them and looks out for their interests. Funny (or not, really) that they don't think the rest of the world should have the same right to an equal voice in policy that they enjoy.

Al is right. Stopped clocks and all...

China is bad, but so is Russia. And more and more people are referring to Russia as a democracy, which they most assuredly are not.

China is bad, but so is Russia. And more and more people are referring to Russia as a democracy, which they most assuredly are not. Posted by: An Anonymous American Patriot

WTF? No one thinks of Russia as being, like China, anything other than an authoritarian state (neither were ever remotely communist) that wisely jettisoned an economic "model" that never worked. The only significant differences between the two is that Russia seems to be socially more liberal but proportionally more lawless, and China is many times more successful economically and has fewer drunks and drug addicts.

This pathetic old fool gets more irrelevant every day. Until the United States begins to treat every country in the world the same, we are going to have foreign policy fiascos.

- We allow Israel to proliferate nuclear weapons and avoid international inspections of it's nuclear facilities and then plan to attack Iran for doing the same.
- Our idiot president allows Turkey to deny that it was involved in the Armenian genocide and then criticizes Iran's Ahmadinejad for questioning the Jewish holocaust.
- We call Saddam Hussein a brutal dictator and attack and occupy his country and allow him to be hung, while the brutal dictators in Saudi Arabia, who helped finance the 9-11 attacks are called our "allies".

Until assholes like Bush and McCain are run off and never allowed anywhere near the reins of power again, this country is doomed.

China is many times more successful economically and has fewer drunks and drug addicts.

Along those lines, China's Q3 growth is at an astounding 11% (annualized) and is a matter of weeks away from surpassing Germany and becoming the third largest econ in the world.

If I join the League of Democracies, do I get to choose my own cape and mask?

Seriously. Too many people are basing their thinking on comic books. We, the United States, are on our way out as a nation to be taken seriously. The decline is probably irreversible at this point.

*We, the United States, are on our way out as a nation to be taken seriously.*

The whole scenario was spelled out perfectly in "Hulk vs. Ironman" #66.

Unfortunately, after GWB, our image abroad is so tarnished that we'd have a hard time getting other countries involved in just about anything we led.

In a conference call with bloggers this morning, Senator John McCain argued that the United States should convene a League of Democracies to get friendly nations to put more severe pressure on Iran.

League of Democracies? What about a League of Superheroes? Bet the Iranians won't be so tough when they're subjected to blasts of laser rays, and some of the superheroes can use their powers of invisibility to conduct covert investigations of super-secret Iranian nuclear facilities hidden in hollowed-out volcanoes.

This is an idea that has a lot of instinctive appeal to Americans, who are tired of being hamstrung by a UN that gives Sudan and Libya as big a voice in the General Assembly as Germany and the United States.

And once again Drum unthinkingly repeats far-right wing talking points for free....first, sorry that everyone gets an equal voice in the General Assembly, but that's kind of what a democracy is. Hell, I'm tired of being hamstrung by a US Senate that gives North and South Dakota as big a voice as California and New York, but there it is.

Second, everyone knows that the real power lies in the Security Council, where the US and the other permanent members have a controlling veto.

Come on Al, W. looked in Putin’s eyes and determined he is a nice guy. It’s all part of Condi’s theory that nice guys like Cheney, W. and Putin should get together, form personal relationships, and run the world. Weren't you paying attention during the 2002 campaign and W.'s subsequent trip to Russia?

"
- We allow Israel to proliferate nuclear weapons and avoid international inspections of it's nuclear facilities and then plan to attack Iran for doing the same.
- Our idiot president allows Turkey to deny that it was involved in the Armenian genocide and then criticizes Iran's Ahmadinejad for questioning the Jewish holocaust.
- We call Saddam Hussein a brutal dictator and attack and occupy his country and allow him to be hung, while the brutal dictators in Saudi Arabia, who helped finance the 9-11 attacks are called our "allies".

Until assholes like Bush and McCain are run off and never allowed anywhere near the reins of power again, this country is doomed."

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on October 25, 2007

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So fantastic I just thought I'd repeat it whole. If only we had leaders who spoke as clearly and as truthfully.

No, it should be called the League of Extraordinary Democracies..

Minor correction. It means everyone but China and Russia. It virtually pushes those two countries together and that ain't horse feed. They could end-run anything and everything McCain and his League of Magical Nations might seek to push. Thus, the Magical Nations would fall apart on the first "mission", not wanting to give up development rights and investment opportunities to China and Russia.

Thanks, MarkH.

Um. Why the hell wouldn't the US work with other democracies to advance mutual interests?

Why would the US check with China or ME countries before doing so?

The "league of democracies" name is silly, but the underlying idea that democracies stare long term interests and should work together is a lot more reasonable than short-term realpolitic.

And btw, anyone who thinks the general assembly's one country - one vote princple represents popular sovereignty is a tool. Just sayin.

Speaking of democracies, I see the Indian Finance Minister has just announced that India remains committed to its $8 billion pipeline deal with Iran.

Just as well, since they can't/won't push the US nuke deal through Parliament.

Kevin, the UN was probably at it's most effective when China was excluded before the 70s.

And the most effective international actions in recent history tended to be performed by coalitions of democracies, not the UN.