All that money is going to China.

Where is all that dough going?

I dunno, but I can tell you where it isn't going!

Me - stagnant wages, increasing expenses - college tuition, energy, food, health care.

The only area where things are getting better is consumer electronics.

Is this the final or the yet to be adjusted? Shrub's admin has had a habit of trumpeting the raw numbers every quarter with the final numbers being adjusted downward the following month.

Seeing how I just paid $3.21/gal for regular yesterday, we'll see the fourth quarter GDP, holiday shopping notwithstanding, down at least 2%.

This was a triumph
I'm making a note here
HUGE SUCCESS
It's hard to overstate my satisfaction
Aperture Science

we do what we must because we can
for the good of all of us except for the ones who are dead
but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake
and the science gets done and you make a neat gun
for the people who are still alive

I'm not even angry
I'm being so sincere right now
even though you broke my heart and killed me
and torn into pieces
and threw every piece into a fire
as they burned it hurt because I was so happy for you!
Now these points of data make a wonderful line
and we're out of beta, we're releasing on time
so I'm glad I got burned
Think of all the things we learned for the people that are still alive

go ahead and leave me
I think I prefer to stay inside
maybe you'll find someone else to help you
maybe black mesa
that was a joke, haha, fat chance
anyway this cake is great, it's so delicious and moist
look at me still talking, when there's science to do
when I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done
on the people who are still alive

and believe me I am still alive
I'm doing science and I'm still alive
I feel FANTASTIC and I'm still alive
While you are dying I'll be still alive
and when you're dead I'll be still alive
STILL ALIVE, still alive

What a coinkydink...I found that song (the closing theme to the quirky video game Portal) only yesterday. It's awesome.

Where's all this dough going?

To workers? To investors? To management? To lower unemployment? Does it really matter because it sounds like this strong Bush economy is great news and why we need to re-elect a Republican Presidency and have the Republicans take back Congress.

Numbers from last Sunday's talk shows - top 1% cashing in 21% of income.

("mysteriouser" -? From a Bush speech?)

Does it really matter as long as the rich get even richer?

We need more tax cuts for the wealthy.

GDP doesn't really reflect how well actual humans are doing in the economy, so it's not surprising that there is a disconnect between GDP and the way people are feeling over all, ie terrified, insecure, struggling, etc. We are continuing to be very productive -- after all, that is what GDP measures -- but we as individuals are not seeing the fruits of that production. So where is it going? Check the corporate profit numbers. It's in there.

Ritholtz at The Big Picture has a quick shot at why the latest GDP figures may not be so reliable, largely due to inflation...
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/

Wake up!!! The dollar is becoming worthless!!!

Today's economic growth looks mysterios to those who have been getting their news from our biased media. For years, the maistream media (and the lefty press) have downplayed Bush's economic success. People like Paul Krugman, who ought to know better, consistently focused on economic weak points (or potential weaknesses), but preferred not to tell his readers how strong the overall economy actually was.

Those who follow actual results know that the economy has been quite strong for years. Of course, the righty press has been happy to tell its readers how effective Bush's tax cuts were. For these people, continued economic strength is no surprise at all. It's just what the past figures would have indicated.

How strong is the economy? Only as strong as it weakest link. ECON 101, 2nd rule of economics. Right after: There is no such thing as a free lunch...

Ex-liberal, too bad you're not an ex-idiot.

We're the world's #1 debtor nation, and all of our prosperity is fueled by debt and easy credit. Cut interest rates some more, watch the dollar collapse. Talk tough about the Chinese, while we hope they go on loaning us money. We don't make anything anymore except re-packaged loans and financial scams we hope people are dumb enough to invest in.

Even when Americans are in debt up to their eyeballs, they're so brainwashed to be Good Consumers, they can't stop spending. One of these days it will come crashing to an end when the rest of the world finally gets tired of supplying the junkie with endless fixes.

It will be revised downward, I am sure.

Yes this data is preliminary, from the BEA news release:

The Bureau emphasized that the third-quarter "advance" estimates are based on source data that are incomplete or subject to further revision by the source agency (see the box on page 3). The third-quarter "preliminary" estimates, based on more comprehensive data, will be released on November 29,2007.

And while they trumpet the fact that consumer spending on durable goods went up 3.8% as the primary factor behind the change in the GDP, I find that difficult to believe. Mainly because Federal Government spending increased by 6.8% (most of which was Defense spending which increased 9.7%).

I'm trying to find data on where the income went to from the BEA site, but so far not having any luck.

Speed sounds like he has a pretty good handle on the structure of the American economy. A $13 trillion GDP and counting, but it's all debt!

The three biggest gainers were: 1) Exports, probably driven mostly by the declining dollar, 2) Non-residential fixed investment, which is probably showing the lag between the slowing of the residential sector vs. the commercial sector- from the BEA press:

"Real nonresidential fixed investment increased 7.9 percent in the third quarter, compared with an increase of 11.0 percent in the second. Nonresidential structures increased 12.3 percent, compared with an increase of 26.2 percent. Equipment and software increased 5.9 percent, compared with an increase of 4.7 percent."

3) Federal government consumption and investment- from the BEA press:

"Real federal government consumption expenditures and gross investment increased 6.8 percent in the third quarter, compared with an increase of 6.0 percent in the second. National defense increased 9.7 percent, compared with an increase of 8.5 percent. Nondefense increased 0.9 percent, the same increase as in the second."

It's primarily 3) where the real boost is coming from.
You have got huge Federal spending for the Iraqi occupation. The "surge" is not only an increase in troop levels it is also a "surge" in spending as well. I also believe the Pentagon is the world's single largest oil customer. If the dollar is dropping, oil prices are climbing, their bill (and their spending) is going UP.

Where's all this dough going?

To those who already have it.

This has been another edition blah blah blah ...

Seriously, though, that's exactly the booming "economic success" rightards like Speed seem to love under Bush: The fact the rich are getting richer. And those who need a little help? Meh ... what do they care?

And, of course, folks like Speed are convinced that giving rich people more money will somehow magically create all these wonderful jobs.

What they completely ignore is the fact that: a.) people don't create jobs, companies do; b.) the only jobs companies are creating are in China, India and other places where they can pay people as little as possible.

And that's the glitch in free-market theory -- it assumes that workers can negotiate better wages or a better job on equal par with a huge company.

As reality has shown, it's just not the case.

Individual workers can't negotiate from a position of strength because they have nothing to negotiate with -- and with the right's hatred and busting of unions, any chance to get a bigger piece of the economic pie is pretty much gone.

So the rich keep getting richer, and will continue to do so until the tax system becomes less regressive, we have another Great Depression, or us common folk riot and burn down all the McMansions with gas taken from a Hummer H2.

Or perhaps a combo of all three ...

Ah, here it is:

Private wage and salary disbursements increased $12.8 billion in August, compared with an increase of $22.4 billion in July. Goods-producing industries' payrolls increased $0.6 billion, compared with an increase of less than $0.1 billion; manufacturing payrolls decreased $0.6 billion, in contrast to an increase of $0.1 billion. Services-producing industries' payrolls increased $12.3 billion, compared with an increase of $22.2 billion. Government wage and salary disbursements increased $1.6 billion, compared with an increase of $1.4 billion.

Other personal income

Supplements to wages and salaries increased $4.1 billion in August, compared with an increase of $6.1 billion in July.

Proprietors' income increased $3.0 billion in August, compared with an increase of $6.7 billion
in July. Farm proprietors' income increased $1.5 billion, compared with an increase of $1.0 billion.
Nonfarm proprietors' income increased $1.5 billion, compared with an increase of $5.7 billion.

Rental income of persons decreased $1.3 billion in August, compared with a decrease of $2.4 billion in July. Personal income receipts on assets (personal interest income plus personal dividend
income) increased $15.7 billion, compared with an increase of $16.0 billion. Personal current
transfer receipts increased $5.6 billion, compared with an increase of $14.7 billion.

Contributions for government social insurance -- a subtraction in calculating personal income --
increased $1.5 billion in August, compared with an increase of $3.3 billion in July.

It looks like most of the increase in salary and wages comes from Government spending (once again the prime mover in the Bush economy) with and increase of $1.6 billion. All other sources of wages and salary income fell, with the exception of "goods producing industries" which rose a measly .5 billion compared to the second quarter.

And it looks like other forms of compensation fell too: Supplements to wages and salaries increased $4.1 billion in August, compared with an increase of $6.1 billion in July.

SORRY SPEED!!!!!!

Didn't scroll up quite far enough. Please accept my sincerest apologies for confusing you with the scumbag never-was-a-liberal.

My fault.

(Preview is my friend from now on.)

We're the world's #1 debtor nation, and all of our prosperity is fueled by debt and easy credit. Cut interest rates some more, watch the dollar collapse. Posted by: Speed

It'll be interesting to see what sort of austerity measures the IMF imposes when our economy collapse.

ex-liberal, it looks mysterious to people who actually work for a living.

People ask themselves three things at the end of every month: (a) do I have a job, (b) am I making more money, and (c) does my money cover my expenses? Unless the answer to all three of these questions is "yes," people are going to start to feel worried. Stagnant wages, falling housing prices, and increased expenses that can no longer be covered with your HELOC are leading people to start worrying. The fraction of people who watch right-wing propaganda outlets to tell them how wonderful everything is is quite small and not large enough to cover the spread between people who are doing well and people who aren't.

Kevin, part of the clue is in the export numbers. I was in Chicago on business recently and I was struck by the number of foreign tourists (French, Japanese, Chinese, etc.) buying up anything they could get their hands on! At the Hard Rock Cafe, I saw a French tourist buy what must have been 50 T-shirts! And paid for them with American cash!

Bush and his cronies have done such a good job of turning tht U.S. into a Third World country, that the more prosperous countries now come over here to bargain shop. Which helps buoy up our otherwise stagnant economy, because only the wealthiest Americans are able to buy any American goods. We are truly becoming a backwater nation, thanks to Bush's tax giveaways to the rich and the mass exodus of manufacturing jobs to places like India and Mexico. We are royally screwed, folks....

A lot of the problems stem from people working too many hours and/or two jobs for the same money they used to make with just one job or less overtime. They are worn out and irritable. I wouldn't be surprised there are more than quite a few folks who used to make $20/hr at a good mfg. job averaging 40 hrs. a week, who now work for $12/hr working 55+ hrs a week to get the same pay. Health benefits have been trimmed to the bone-more OOP expenses. Wow, back in 2000 I can't believe I had a $250 dollar deductible for the entire year and a maximum OOP of $2000. Long gone now.

Enron accountants were rehired by the Bush Administration.

This money is hidden inflation.

CEO salaries are actually NOT going up all that fast. They're actually barely treading water, in real terms. They HAVE to inflate their salaries like that to keep up with the hidden inflation.

You see this in how fast the war budget is ramping. It's almost doubling every year now - it's a geometric progression. Weimar-Republic-style hyperinflation.

What is happening, is PEAK OIL, and Chinese Labor. The value of the Dollar is in a death spiral. This was actually inevitable BEFORE the Iraq war - Bush was just trying to forestall it; but executed so incompetently, that he actually made the problem worse. (. . . and because of their refusal to admit that the war was about oil; because they didn't want to panic the commodities markets, they ended up panicking the markets even worse!) The Fed, and the Central Bankers have managed to remove asset values from how Inflation is calculated, such that, any Inflation statistic is now absolutely meaningless.

The DJIA is going up, not because the value of these companies is going up - but because the value of the dollars these stocks are priced in, is going down.

Profits are not increasing in real-terms. These dollars are toilet paper. Few people actually realize the extent of the dollar devaluation that is in progress. Most are just in denial. The rest are trying to hoard assets.

The death-spiral has begun, with Bernanke's rate cut - they've now admitted that they can no longer control it (not even by military force), and all they can do is try to preserve some semblence of lifestyle for the top 1% by shovelling more money directly from the printing presses into their pockets. The rest of us? We're going to fucking starve while working full-time jobs.

Ex-lib,

Why don't you come clean? I did? I explained, briefly, my personal expenses and economic situation.

I know you are in your 70s, so why not admit it? I doubt you are currently working, except for shilling here of course, so wages probably mean squat to you. With one foot in the grave you probably don't care much about the future, too. Do you have kids? I mean any you get along? I can imagine most of them disowned you because of your extreme opinions.

But prove you are more than a paid shill - tell something personal. I dare you.

Economy growing, my question is where, in Bushs dreams? Come to Southeast Missouri and tell me some more lies.

"For years, the maistream media (and the lefty press) have downplayed Bush's economic success."

No, dear, they haven't, mostly because there has been little real "success." And what success there is has not been a result of Bush's economic policies. On a bang-for-the-buck basis, Bush's tax cuts were the least effective and most expensive "economic stimulus" package in our history.

"People like Paul Krugman, who ought to know better, consistently focused on economic weak points (or potential weaknesses), but preferred not to tell his readers how strong the overall economy actually was."

Dear heart, the reason we point out that the economy is not strong is that the economy is not, in fact, strong.

"Those who follow actual results know that the economy has been quite strong for years."

ROFL.... Sorry, dear, but the reality, of course, is that for the vast majority of the U.S., the economy has been quite weak for years.

"Of course, the righty press has been happy to tell its readers how effective Bush's tax cuts were."

Yes, dear, we know. Too bad it's not true.

"It's just what the past figures would have indicated."

ROFLMAO.... This is, of course, a blatant lie, which is why you don't even try to support it. You really should try to do better, dear.

Why shouldn't the numbers look good,Bush has borrowed more than 3 trillion and ran through the U.S. economy Where did that 3 trillion dollars go.To the top 2%. You renumnuts are just to easy (and more then likely gay).

Of course, the righty press has been happy to tell its readers how effective Bush's tax cuts were.

Funny how they never mention the record-low interest rates.

Of course, Bush's tax cuts are still in effect -- for now -- while the super-low interest rates, not so much. And look what direction the economy's heading -- where are your tax cuts now?

Fascinating that "ex-liberal" resorts to such insultingly obvious faith-based fantasy to defend Bush's economic record.

Oh, wait -- no, it isn't. It's just more "ex-liberal"'s bad-faith-argument-by-repetitious-assertion.

...we have another Great Depression, or us common folk riot and burn down all the McMansions with gas taken from a Hummer H2.
Posted by: Mark D on October 31, 2007 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK

Not with all the nice new high-tech toys we financed with these billions in defense spending.

Robotic motion-sensing machineguns. Armed UAV's. Microwave area-denial weapons. Laser blinding weapons. etc.
If seasoned Afghan jihadis can't keep the US from invading and taking over their country in the space of two weeks with a force of 1/10 the size, what chance do mad-cow-burger-eating, high-fructose-corn-syrup-drinking, foxnews-watching, brain-dead American screwed middle class have? Absolutely zero.

They'll sit back in their McMansions, switch the robotic machineguns on, and crank up the volume on their surround-sound home-entertainment systems to drown out the noise.

speed: all of our prosperity is fueled by debt and easy credit.

true..

Average card debt among people who have at least one card is $9,205 -- triple what it was in 1990.
- bankrate.com 2004

and its even higher now...

how strong the overall economy actually was

Ah, the overall economy, the one true barometer.

What's the last thing a conservative economist says before his nutsack gets eviscerated?

"Don't worry! This razor-wire fence only averages a foot high!"

This money is hidden inflation.
Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on October 31, 2007 at 2:08 PM

There is also a lot of hidden inflation in ordinary consumer products that's been getting significantly worse in just the last few years. The prices have remained relatively stable, but you are getting less product for your money. Paper-thin plastic enclosures in place of metal for some electronics. I've even noticed recently that "Ultra-concentrated" Dawnâ„¢ dishwashing liquid is really runny now. I bought a new container just about three weeks ago and it is already half gone. Several years ago I bought the same size container of the same product and it lasted nearly six months. I've got a pair of Chinese sneakers I bought in 1996 that are still wearable. Nothing like those since. It is kind of funny, but not really. It all adds up.

Kevin, part of the clue is in the export numbers. I was in Chicago on business recently and I was struck by the number of foreign tourists (French, Japanese, Chinese, etc.) buying up anything they could get their hands on! At the Hard Rock Cafe, I saw a French tourist buy what must have been 50 T-shirts! And paid for them with American cash!

I for one welcome our new French overlords.

I do not believe this is a real number backed up by real statistics. Something is not being counted or included. The Commerce Dept is not independent, it's part of the Executive Branch. Several weeks from now when they think no one is looking they will release the actual Q3 GDP.

The nice thing about blatant propaganda like faux-liberal's is that it no longer has much effect. People know whether the economy has been good for them. If it has not, which is true for most people, then no amount of propaganda is going to be effective.