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Tilting at Windmills

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November 2, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

STATE OF FEAR....There's been a huge decline in foreign tourism since 9/11, and tourism promoter Geoff Freeman says he knows why: "It is the perception around the world that travelers aren't welcome," he says. "Travelers around the world feel the US entry experience is among the world's worst." Andrew Sullivan comments:

It is by far the biggest change I have experienced in my quarter century living in America....Getting any kind of visa can be a nightmare of bureaucracy; being finger-printed and treated like a criminal is the first actual experience many foreigners have of entering the US, and the process of getting through customs and immigration can be, even in completely incident-free circumstances, frightening. My elderly mother arrived for my wedding and started sobbing in my arms after the rough treatment she had received from airport security....When Bush goes, the country's reputation will instantly soar (unless he's succeeded by Giuliani, in which case, we're headed for pariah status). But unless we get a grip on the police state atmosphere at the legal border, the opinion of mankind with respect to America will only continue to worsen.

Another horror story here. Security expert Bruce Schneier has some additional comments on the bigger picture.

Kevin Drum 8:20 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (52)

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Comments

When Bush goes, the country's reputation will instantly soar.

Isn't that alone enough of an argument for a serious attempt at impeachment? Do our allies matter that little?

Posted by: skimble on November 2, 2007 at 8:43 PM | PERMALINK

Traveling through Frankfurt airport 20 years ago, the sight of police carrying submachine guns was always interesting.

But the German police traveled around in pairs, one man with the machine gun, the other armed with a pistol. They wore the standard uniform of the civilian police, a sort of beige cotton shirt and dark, khaki trousers. They gave the impression of stern, watchful professionalism, protecting the citizenry.

In American airports these days, the armed guards travel singly, to cover more area perhaps, or because there is really no threat they will be attacked. They wear camouflage and kevlar helmets, which separates them from the citizenry. Much more a police-state feel than I ever had in Germany in the 1980s and 90s.

And I can only imagine how foreigners feel.

Posted by: Wapiti on November 2, 2007 at 8:52 PM | PERMALINK

When Bush goes, the country's reputation will instantly soar.

That may be wishful thinking. Democrats cannot even get themselves to vote against a pro-torture AG. And if Hillary wins, US foreign policy will be run by Richard Holbrooke -- an early Iraq hawk who, according to some reports, is a first-rate neocon.

Liberals keep looking the other way when Democrats in congress keep voting for everything Bush asks in the name of "defense", and keep taking money from the lobbies that want them to continue the neocon agenda.

Posted by: JS on November 2, 2007 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINK

I'd say that this is one instance where the perception is pretty close to reality.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on November 2, 2007 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINK

Democrats cannot even get themselves to vote against a pro-torture AG -JS

They know Bush will do as he did before and make a signing statement on whatever they pass.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Liberals keep looking the other way when Democrats in congress keep voting for everything Bush asks in the name of "defense", -JS

They voted for giving him the ability to use military force in Iraq, the morons, and now they are stuck financing the Oedipus monster they helped create.

Posted by: Ya Know... on November 2, 2007 at 9:21 PM | PERMALINK

"That may be wishful thinking. Democrats cannot even get themselves to vote against a pro-torture AG."

JS - Agreed. But let's name names. Not 'Democrats' but specifically Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein. I'm furious.

Posted by: nepeta on November 2, 2007 at 9:23 PM | PERMALINK

To those of you who are pissed off at Feinstein and Schumer, get real! Like Bush is going to nominate someone better if Mukasey is blocked?

Don't forget that Mukasey is not filling an open position. There is an Acting AG right now who was a protege of Gonzalez, and if the Dems block Mukasey, he will continue to run the Justice Department until somebody is confirmed.

Schumer & Feinstein are simply making the judgement that Mukasey is better than both the Acting AG as well as anybody else Bush would nominate.

Posted by: mfw13 on November 2, 2007 at 9:32 PM | PERMALINK

None of this is going to go away. Get Bush out of the White House, and the Republicans will still be screaming the Democrats are going to get us all killed. In a conditioned reflex, the Democrats will keep running in fear from this. It's in their DNA now.

Eliot Spitzer in NY tries to bring undocumented immigrants out of the shadows so the state can begin to get a handle on people driving without licenses, and the state Republicans stage a passion play on the capitol steps and bring a lawsuit against the governor. They are fighting for political survival and will use anything that works to hamstring Spitzer.

The dynamic of using fear to hold power is too entrenched in our political system to go away - and it's self reinforcing. As long as there are Republicans, they will run on all Fear, all the time. That's what's in their DNA, and has been for a long time.

Posted by: xaxnar on November 2, 2007 at 9:38 PM | PERMALINK

We should be thankful for the small favor from Mr. Sullivan for pointing out the authoritarian streak of the GOP front-runner. One would hope that his Clinton Derangement Syndrome will not one again lead him to the arms of another proto/wannabe fascist.

Posted by: gregor on November 2, 2007 at 9:55 PM | PERMALINK

"Schumer & Feinstein are simply making the judgement that Mukasey is better than both the Acting AG as well as anybody else Bush would nominate." -mfw13

I haven't heard either of them give this as the reasoning for their intended vote. There is a certain logic to the argument, but the logic totally neglects the principle, i.e., no US attorney general should be equivocal about what constitutes torture. The principle seems too important to me to exchange for short-term advantage, an advantage that has yet to be proved with Mukasey in any case.

Posted by: nepeta on November 2, 2007 at 9:56 PM | PERMALINK

"None of this is going to go away. Get Bush out of the White House, and the Republicans will still be screaming the Democrats are going to get us all killed."

I would be happy enough if the Democrats broke up the media monopolies so that the screaming wouldn't be directed by a dozen conservatives.

Posted by: Joey Giraud on November 2, 2007 at 10:08 PM | PERMALINK

The anti-immigrant and anti-foreigner paranoia being whipped up by the likes of Lou Dobbs, Bill O'Reilly, and so much of the wingnut blogosphere encourages and reinforces such misconduct in a field that I am afraid has the potential to attract those who are by temperment inclined to bullying. Plus we are increasingly opaque about what we do about such stuff.

Posted by: rickstersherpa on November 2, 2007 at 10:24 PM | PERMALINK

One more example of how badly Bush and his cronies have bungled the response to 9-11, using that event as an excuse to foist fascism on America. A crash program to become energy-independent, a robust program to pay bounties for loose nuclear material, biological and radiological sensors in all ports and airports, cutting off military aid to Israel and reaching out a hand of peace to Muslim nations would have all been rational and less costly responses to the horror of Sept. 11th than launching two or three wars. Of course, Bush did none of them.

[By the way, Kevin, I think you linked to the same Atlantic article twice]

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on November 2, 2007 at 10:28 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, Kevin.

Shoter Kevin Drum: "I am a America Hater."

Yes, good ol' Kevin Drum. Puts the feelings of French cheese-eaters and Arab bloodthirsty killers ahead of the security of American children.

THen he has the gaul to complain about the SHIP veto. Hypocrite.

Posted by: egbert on November 2, 2007 at 10:37 PM | PERMALINK

The SHIP veto?

Posted by: coldhotel on November 2, 2007 at 10:42 PM | PERMALINK

We don't need no stinkin' Opinion Of Mankind! We got the Power! Anyone gets in our way, we'll just nuke 'em! Right?

Posted by: Bruce Moomaw on November 2, 2007 at 10:50 PM | PERMALINK

Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein have sold us out again. Again and again the opposition party fails to obstruct more authoritarianism. This is why customs has become a Rhodesian police approved experience.

Posted by: Brojo on November 2, 2007 at 11:04 PM | PERMALINK

This is nonsense. I am in Europe at least once a year and usually more often. I have never seen the French as friendly as they are now. Even clerks in the Metro speak English now. The Sarkozy phenomenon is part of it. The French have got it figured out and they recognize the threat that militant Islam poses to their culture. I think they will be better allies over the next decade than the British who still cannot bring themselves to see the danger.

Posted by: Mike K on November 2, 2007 at 11:08 PM | PERMALINK

egbert: "Shoter Kevin Drum: 'I am a America Hater.' Yes, good ol' Kevin Drum. Puts the feelings of French cheese-eaters and Arab bloodthirsty killers ahead of the security of American children."

Go blow it out your xenophobic ass, chickenhawk. The swishiest, most limp-wristed Franco-Algerian drag queen in Paris is still more of a man than you'll ever be.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on November 2, 2007 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK

By bloodthirsty Arab killers, do you mean the Bishop of Deir Mkhalles Monastery, Salim Ghazal, who is came to the USA this week from embattled South Lebanon to receive a humanitarian award from the Catholic diocese of Davenport, Iowa?

Do you mean my Arab Christian relatives who survived the sack of their Christian village during the Lebanese civil war by Muslim militias?

Do you mean me, born and raised in the USA, with an Arab Christian father and a Virginia-born mother whose ancestors arrived in Norfolk in 1649?

60% of Arab-Americans are Christians. Of the 40% who are Muslim, I don't believe even a raver like you can find any evidence of bloodthirsty killers among them - more than in the rest of the population that is.

But you're a troll.

Forgive him, Father, for he knows not what he says.

Posted by: Leila on November 2, 2007 at 11:47 PM | PERMALINK

I had my car searched by U.S. border service morons about 6 years ago upon innocent entry to pick up a parcel in the US. Three gorillas in uniforms who seemed to regard civil visitors as some sort of threat to the Republic. Or that it were so. I haven't been back since; I will not return again until the Long Nightmare is over. Institutionalized paranoia is more than I can stomach more than once in a lifetime.

Posted by: anon on November 3, 2007 at 12:20 AM | PERMALINK

Come on Kevin; Andrew Sullivan is a big gayie-gay, a really big man-loving gayie-super-gay.

Posted by: Al on November 3, 2007 at 12:23 AM | PERMALINK

You know who I blame?

McCarthyite demagogues who exploit fear by accusing anyone who disagrees with them of constituting a Fifth Column of traitors.

People, like, you know, Andrew Sullivan.

Posted by: Culture of Truth on November 3, 2007 at 12:39 AM | PERMALINK

Japan is just about to get stricter as well. They will begin finger printing and photographing all incoming foreigners, including foreigners with permanent resident visas.

Posted by: JeffII on November 3, 2007 at 1:02 AM | PERMALINK

"This is nonsense."

Um, no, it's not. You're entitled to your own set of opinions; you're not entitled to your own set of facts.

"I am in Europe at least once a year and usually more often. I have never seen the French as friendly as they are now."

LOL.... Are you really as dumb as this comment makes you out to be?

"The French have got it figured out and they recognize the threat that militant Islam poses to their culture."

Dear heart, "the French" knew far more about that "threat" than the Bush administration ever did.

"I think they will be better allies over the next decade than the British who still cannot bring themselves to see the danger."

ROFL.... Man, what can you say to such cluelessness?

Posted by: PaulB on November 3, 2007 at 2:51 AM | PERMALINK

One of the lead articles in the Turkish daily news today:

"United States President George W. Bush's administration is largely responsible for the worsening of U.S.-Turkey relations"

Posted by: mcdruid on November 3, 2007 at 3:51 AM | PERMALINK

Mr. Sullivan supports cavity searches of old women, except not old Tory women.

Posted by: Brojo on November 3, 2007 at 3:57 AM | PERMALINK

I wonder if this is incidental or on purpose? Are these people simply drunk with power or are they being stimulated because the neocons are using this as a way to further intimidate the population?

When I saw the towers fall my first thought was for the victims. My second thought was that this would unloose the security wackos on the populace. That is pretty much how it has turned out.

Posted by: JohnK on November 3, 2007 at 4:16 AM | PERMALINK

"Forgive him, Father, for he knows not what he says."

If you will permit me a bit of Jewish perspective - forgiveness from G_d for sins against G_d, but for sins against your fellow man, you must seek their forgiveness.

These people would have to beg for forgiveness from now until the end of their lives to have a thin hope of dying with a clean conscience.

Posted by: Ethan on November 3, 2007 at 5:12 AM | PERMALINK

My 2p... I love America, and spent a very happy year living in Atlanta in my 20s, but I won't visit any more - I'm fed up with the three-hour queues and then being treated like a criminal by airport security... and I'm a white English guy - heavens knows what it must be like for (say) a French Muslim.

Posted by: Syd on November 3, 2007 at 5:16 AM | PERMALINK

Who would have thought that the U.S. would base their border control procedures on those of old Soviet-bloc countries?

Posted by: RSA on November 3, 2007 at 9:42 AM | PERMALINK

This is nonsense. I am in Europe at least once a year and usually more often. I have never seen the French as friendly as they are now. Even clerks in the Metro speak English now.

Mike K, try not to post while stupid. This discussion is about foreign visitors' experience coming to the U.S., not your inability to learn a little French for your eating trips to Paris. Your Zazie dans le Metro anecdotes aren't worth a bucket of spit.

Posted by: shortstop on November 3, 2007 at 11:04 AM | PERMALINK

And I thought the dear Doc was following his Guide Lingerie instead of the Guide Michelin for fine dining. Fredericks of Hollywood gets soooo boring at times.

Posted by: bert on November 3, 2007 at 11:10 AM | PERMALINK

I'm a 60 year old, very white woman, but living in Egypt, teaching at American University. The unpleasantness of coming back into the US for my vacations is causing me to start to think of relocating my "cabin" to the French Alps, or Norway. I can hardly believe how awful coming into Denver is. The airports in Cairo, France and Germany are a normal experience comparatively.

And, re the travel problem, at the world travel show in Cairo last year, the ONLY booth to represent America was a Homeland Security booth showing people how they would be fingerprinted. Talk about horrifying and humiliating. I shudder for my country, but the "good Germans" there are pretty deserving of what's coming. I'm sorry...the whole world is saying this, if not worse.

Posted by: christine on November 3, 2007 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

I live in Poland which until a few years ago could be described as almost fanatically pro-American.

The students I teach aren't exactly anti-American now, but the great majority are just kind of ... indifferent (they are however mostly extremely pro EU and UK).

It takes a pretty craptacular performance to alienate the Polish public from America but Bush has managed it.

Posted by: michael farris on November 3, 2007 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

"Bushie!...Bushie!....Bushie!"

Posted by: Albania on November 3, 2007 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

"Forgive him, Father..." is a paraphrase from Jesus. He said during his crucifixion: "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do..."

I welcome a Jewish perspective on this. Just recognize that I made a deliberate allusion for a rhetorical purpose. Forgiveness of sins is part of both Judaism and Christianity, and I am not about to argue about how or under what circumstances, or the nature of grace etc. Such doctrinal issues don't matter to me - I am a believer but rather eclectic and don't care to say that one theological view is better than another. I find spiritual ideas of merit in Islam and Buddhism as well.

I suppose I mean that I have to ask God to help me forgive, because of my own will I have a hard time doing it in this case.

Posted by: Leila on November 3, 2007 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

"Mike K, try not to post while stupid. This discussion is about foreign visitors' experience coming to the U.S., not your inability to learn a little French for your eating trips to Paris. Your Zazie dans le Metro anecdotes aren't worth a bucket of spit.

Posted by: shortstop "

The usual response to common sense that I see here. You have a fair point about the subject being foreign visitors coming here but I also have friends visit and have heard no complaint. In fact, last month I had an English couple here for a week and they were amazed at how quickly and courteously they were brought through customs. I frankly was surprised too because my own experience with customs has not been that happy since long before Bush was president. You guys have another 15 months t bitch about Bush, then you will have to find a new boogey man.

I was merely commenting on phenomena that you twerps sitting in your parents' basement ranting about the world situation are unfamiliar with. There is a lot of unhappiness with Bush in Europe but it is a combination of anti-Texas feeling (They didn't like LBJ either) and the result of the nonstop attacks by the NY Times and its minion the International Herald Tribune. There is less antiAmerican stuff on al Jazeera.

Posted by: Mike K on November 3, 2007 at 6:17 PM | PERMALINK

re Mike K - I lived in Europe from 1977 to 1993; Spain, Italy, the UK and Turkey and never met with any "anti-Americanism". Flew commercially in and out of all those countries except Italy and was never once treated badly. During that time I also visited Yugoslavia, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, Germany and (here it comes) France! Polite, friendly treatment was all I ever met with when crossing borders, deplaning, etc.
The lack of profesionalism (see Black River) and minimum wage hiring are probably at the bottom of much of the treatment afforded to visitors. We need well-paid professionals, but that might actually cost money.

Posted by: Doug on November 3, 2007 at 6:58 PM | PERMALINK

Doug (My god a mature comment !) I agree but the same treatment, if not worse, is delivered to citizens. Our Customs people are convinced that everyone coming through is a smuggler. They don't differentiate between citizens and visitors, as far as I can tell. Maybe they should be sent to police the border and the Border Patrol transferred to LAX.

I have been struck by the change in France the past several years. I have been visiting for 30 years and the change in attitude and the amount of English spoken is amazing. I speak a little French and that helps but the change is just striking. I also see a hardening of their attitude toward Muslims since the riots and car torchings. The French have the cultural self confidence to deal with the problem but I don't see the same confidence in the British. Many of my friends are worried but the government is firmly in the hands of the multi-cultis.

Large parts of southern and eastern France are now English speakng as the rural villages are taken over by retiring British. An interesting phenomenon.

Posted by: Mike K on November 3, 2007 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINK

I was merely commenting on phenomena that you twerps sitting in your parents' basement ranting about the world situation are unfamiliar with. There is a lot of unhappiness with Bush in Europe but it is a combination of anti-Texas feeling (They didn't like LBJ either) and the result of the nonstop attacks by the NY Times and its minion the International Herald Tribune.

LOL--Mike, you illiterate blowhard, I'm in Europe (and other places on the globe) considerably more often than you are, and if you ever read other people's posts besides your own, you'd know that so are a goodly number of people here. Your cluelessness is astonishing; your anecdotes ("People on the Metro spoke English to me!" "I know someone who had an easy time in U.S. customs!") demonstrate a laughably limited experience and understanding; and your belief that Europeans get their news and form their impressions of Americans from the NYT and the Herald Tribune is hilarious in its cartoonish Yankee insularity. One wonders if you ever get out of the (no doubt American) hotel on these trips of yours.

I won't even go into your backwasher pretense that the rest of the world dislikes Bush simply because they're "anti-Texan," except to note that these days, you appear to be wearing yourself out frantically ignoring the elephant in the room that is Bush's abject failures in foreign policy.

Keep it up; you are precious. (And learn to speak French already, for crying out loud.)

Posted by: shortstop on November 4, 2007 at 2:07 AM | PERMALINK

As an Austrian, I have to travel to the US for business reasons about every year. US immigration varies a lot, from minimal delay (once in Boston, once in Chicago) up to 2 hours (which cost me my connecting flight) in Dulles, DC.

The green Visa waiver forms are ridiculous and stupid.

The customs forms as well.

The data gathering via the airlines is frightening.

The fingerprinting / photo is degrading.

The biometric passport requirements they are pushing all over the world is Orwellian.

My wife used to ask me about a holiday in the US, but I always reject that. Not that I don't like the country (I've spent 4 weeks touring the national parks in the rockies with my Ex, beautiful scenery.) and the exchange rate, but I just refuse to spend my own money where I don't feel welcome.

This is my answer to the US stupidity at the border.

My Euros are more welcome in other countries. Cuba in 2003 and even communist Hungary were friendlier on entry.

Posted by: otmar on November 4, 2007 at 4:08 AM | PERMALINK

Alot of Canadians use to do spur of the moment weekend trips to the States . You now need a passport.
We'd love to go to Disney and take advantage of the high dollar but the b.s to get a family of five passports(we're not near an office,much less the cost of photo's,notary and goverment fees)prohibits going.

Posted by: Albert on November 4, 2007 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

"Your cluelessness is astonishing; your anecdotes ("People on the Metro spoke English to me!" "I know someone who had an easy time in U.S. customs!") demonstrate a laughably limited experience and understanding; and your belief that Europeans get their news and form their impressions of Americans from the NYT and the Herald Tribune is hilarious in its cartoonish Yankee insularity. One wonders if you ever get out of the (no doubt American) hotel on these trips of yours."

I do and I suspect your contacts are limited to those who agree with you. Your comments are laughably predictable, sort of like Crotty at the State Department who thinks foreign service should be limited to Paris and Rome.

"I won't even go into your backwasher pretense that the rest of the world dislikes Bush simply because they're "anti-Texan," except to note that these days, you appear to be wearing yourself out frantically ignoring the elephant in the room that is Bush's abject failures in foreign policy"

Your opinions seem to blind you to observation. I have been a member of a number of British societies for years (many years) and go there regularly. I spent several weeks in 2003 in Italy during the Iraq invasion with about 25 British physician friends. They are very dismissive of US sourthern accents and Bush is tarnished by his Texas accent. Most British physicians are Labour voters and show the expected (given their politics) attitudes but, if you know them well, you find that individual issues are not treated the way you would expect. Their opinions on the US seem to be based on NY Times opinions. Maybe the Guardian is the source but it sounds like NY times. They are very worried about Muslims but have no idea how to deal wirth the problem.

"Keep it up; you are precious. (And learn to speak French already, for crying out loud.)"

You might try studying history. My French fluctuates with the amount of time I spend there. Your history is hopeless.

Posted by: Mike K on November 4, 2007 at 9:02 PM | PERMALINK

The U.S.’s university system has been first rate, and a powerful force for attracting the best and brightest from around the globe. Now this is changing. The whole visa hassle (personally interviews at the embassy required, even if the American embassy happens to be 600 miles away, and the earliest appointment is in two months) means foreign students are voting with their feet. Australia, yes. Britain, yes. The U.S., too much hassle. Once again the U.S. somehow feels it is somehow in our best interest to shit on the rest of the world.

Posted by: fafner1 on November 4, 2007 at 9:30 PM | PERMALINK

Savvy travelers know to enter from Mexico where there are no barriers to friendship.

Posted by: Luther on November 5, 2007 at 3:14 AM | PERMALINK

Mike, I would suggest to you that the reason the French were friendly is their tourism is suffering, especially because of the weak dollar. In fact there was an article about government officials pushing those in the tourism industry to be friendlier because of the dropoff in American visitors.

That said, the point of Kevin's post is that we're getting fewer and fewer visitors even though a weak dollar usually draws European and other visitors. Our stupid rules are keeping people away. I've been to the Soviet Union back when it was the USSR and its security apparatus has nothing on ours. I personally would never visit a country that required my fingerprints, on the principal of the thing.

And fafner1 is right. What our beloved bureaucrats don't seem to realize -- the EU and other countries are realizing that higher ed is a cash cow and they're starting to get competitive. We'll wake up one day without the best and brightest of other countries won't be coming to our shores anymore, or staying. America's strength has always been its ability to do that.

Posted by: lou on November 5, 2007 at 10:21 AM | PERMALINK

nepeta: There is a certain logic to the argument, but the logic totally neglects the principle, i.e., no US attorney general should be equivocal about what constitutes torture.

You either have Mukasey or the acting AG, neither of whom meets your criteria, so your position is inane, especially since the acting AG is worse than Mukasey in numerous ways.

Try to remember: Bush gets to nominate the AG, not Congress.

I know that's a difficult concept, but it is the Constitution and you have to live with it whether you want to or not.

Posted by: anonymous on November 5, 2007 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K: There is less anti-American stuff on al Jazeera.

As usual, you lie by falsely equating reality-based, truthful, and defensible anti-Bush "stuff" with anti-American "stuff."

Of course, anyone referring to "opinion and news reporting" as "stuff" is pretty much a buffoon who can't be taken seriously anyway.

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