Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

Email Newsletter icon, E-mail Newsletter icon, Email List icon, E-mail List icon Sign up for Free News & Updates

November 16, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

JOHN McCAIN UPDATE....From David Freddoso at The Corner:

I'm told that "Bitch-Gate" has caused McCain's campaign to have one of its best Internet fund-raising days so far.

I'm sure he must be very proud.

Kevin Drum 5:46 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (82)

Bookmark and Share
 
Comments

What's a good fundraising day for Straight Talk Johnny? 100 bones? He still has to borrow $3 million just to stay afloat...how lame is that? Which he'll pay back...how?

Posted by: shortstop on November 16, 2007 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch ...

/Grandpa "McCain" Simpson


Consider that my donation, John.

Posted by: anonymous on November 16, 2007 at 5:59 PM | PERMALINK

He IS proud, and so is his poor, illegitimate, black child.

Posted by: jay boilswater on November 16, 2007 at 5:59 PM | PERMALINK

I hope that Hillary will prove that she is one. The next time they see each other she bites him and tears a chunk out of his ass.

Posted by: natural cynic on November 16, 2007 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

Time for a blogger ethics panel!

Bloggers are so uncivil!!

I'm sure the WaPo editorial page will be up in arms.

PS -- this shows what will happen, $-wise, if Hillary gets the nom.

Posted by: Gore/Edwards 08 on November 16, 2007 at 6:03 PM | PERMALINK

And how is this any different than when John Edwards used for his fundraising his wife's attack on Ann Coulter? How hypocritical of liberals.

Posted by: Al on November 16, 2007 at 6:11 PM | PERMALINK

And both those contributors, I'm sure, are committed "Christians."

I got an e-mail from AFA (the Dobson nuts) yesterday, trying to get me to boycott Petsmart because they couldn't find any Christmas promotions there. They are pissed off and rabble rousing because Petsmart is not commercially exploiting the birth of Christ. Can you beat that?

Posted by: Helena Montana on November 16, 2007 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

And how hypocritical of Al not to equally condemn both.

Posted by: natural cynic on November 16, 2007 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

They're such lovely people.

Posted by: Old Hat on November 16, 2007 at 6:16 PM | PERMALINK

Up next....The C word.

Posted by: POD on November 16, 2007 at 6:22 PM | PERMALINK

I'm half tempted to tune into This Week to see if they bother bringing it up. It would be interesting to Steno-boy call Cookie and prissy George bitches, strictly in the interest of political research of course.

Posted by: JeffII on November 16, 2007 at 6:25 PM | PERMALINK

From Eric Alterman's blog at Media Matters.

Name: Charles Pierce
Hometown: Newton, MA

Hey Doc:

One hopes Dana Milbank is man enough to do the decent thing and simply go home and vomit every night. The other night, talking with my man Olbermann, greasily hiding behind what was the living definition of a s**t-eating grin, Milbank explained his take on the "How do we beat the bitch?" controversy currently plaguing John McCain, who is not, Milbank was quick to point out, running for "knighthood in some order of chivalry." He further explained that McCain was smart enough to realize that it would "be suicide to quarrel with this phraseology." So now it is not only politically permissible -- but the very essence of shrewd politics -- to go along with calling Senator Hillary Clinton almost anything. Why stop here? Why not just call her a "c**t"? That'd be a brilliant tactical maneuver, wouldn't it, Dana? Go for the gold, boys.

Posted by: JeffII on November 16, 2007 at 6:31 PM | PERMALINK

The woman who asked the "bitch" question of McCain reminded me of the comment Barbara Bush made about Democratic vice-presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro: "I can’t say it, but it rhymes with rich." (This was a pretty shocking statement for a candidate's wife to make about another candidate back then.)

In each case, an older, white women from the Republican party makes a comment about a female Democratic candidate that would be unacceptable if made by a man or a young or middle-aged woman. The press accounts I've seen don't identify the woman. Does anyone know if the news media identified her or her ties to a particular campaign? Somehow, I can't help thinking that the question wasn't spontaneous.

Posted by: dead last on November 16, 2007 at 6:39 PM | PERMALINK

i really can't get too excited over this episode. it's reminiscent of all the times the wingers were incensed that the democrats did not condemn harry belafonte or ward churchill or whomever. it's not like mccain called her a bitch.

on the other hand, it would be cool if bill punched him in the nose.

your pal,
blake

Posted by: blake on November 16, 2007 at 7:45 PM | PERMALINK

Fine by me. Let the fools throw their money into a lost campaign. That much less put into the general election.

Posted by: Simp on November 16, 2007 at 7:51 PM | PERMALINK

JeffII has got it. The name-calling won't stop here. Not good, not good.

Posted by: Bob M on November 16, 2007 at 8:00 PM | PERMALINK

Al: "And how is this any different than when John Edwards used for his fundraising his wife's attack on Ann Coulter? How hypocritical of liberals."

Blow it out your ass, Al.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on November 16, 2007 at 8:08 PM | PERMALINK

That "how do we beat the bitch?" scene with John McCain, in which McCain and the crowd laughed, was surreal.

It reminded me of that scene in Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers, when Mallory (Juliette Lewis) is repeatedly called "you stupid fuckin' bitch" by her abusive and lecherous father (Rodney Dangerfield), to the accompaniment of a hollow sitcom laughtrack.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on November 16, 2007 at 8:20 PM | PERMALINK

And how outraged would we be if the questioner had asked, vis a vis Obama, 'how do we beat the n*****?"

Posted by: MaryLou on November 16, 2007 at 8:31 PM | PERMALINK

Is McCain horrible because one of his supporters called Hillary a bad name? If so, then Hillary is horrible, because some of her supporters have called Guiliani a fascist.

In fact, neither McCain nor Hillary can control the words that their supporters use. This is a tempest in a teapot.

Posted by: ex-liberal on November 16, 2007 at 8:51 PM | PERMALINK

McCain is horrible for many, many reasons! One terrible reason is pandering to right wing nuts!

Posted by: Defender on November 16, 2007 at 9:03 PM | PERMALINK

dead last: The press accounts I've seen don't identify the woman.

In stark opposition to the waitress who, supposedly, was stiffed for a tip by Hillary's campaign. Hasn't her entire life story, voting record, and blood type been exposed?

Posted by: bigcat on November 16, 2007 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

But calling Guilliani a fascist can hardly be considered a substantial departure from the truth.

Posted by: gregor on November 16, 2007 at 9:43 PM | PERMALINK

Necons, the Corner and their fellow travelers are subversive, anti-American, deceptive Fascists.

Let’s bring a big RICO suit against all those stinking Mother Fuckers and throw them in their favorite newly created symbol of America— the Guantanamo Hilton.

FUCK YOU ALL, YOU FUCKING FUCKS!!!!!

Posted by: Tammy on November 16, 2007 at 9:53 PM | PERMALINK

I'm told that "Bitch-Gate" has caused McCain's campaign to have one of its best Internet fund-raising days so far.

This could only be true if Hillary had a polarizing effect and if the very idea of Hillary becoming president tended to mobilize the far-right in a major way. But we know that's not true (because Hillary's supporters tell us so). So David Freddoso at The Corner lied. There can be no other explanation.

Posted by: bob on November 16, 2007 at 10:05 PM | PERMALINK

The Rudy McRomnies are all a type of small dog that rhymes with cunt.

Posted by: jimbo on November 16, 2007 at 10:08 PM | PERMALINK

In stark opposition to the waitress who, supposedly, was stiffed for a tip by Hillary's campaign.

That story died in a hurry when the waitress pointed out to the slavering mob, I mean press corps, that there's a war going on where people are dying and they surely had better things to do.

You will never hear of that story or woman again. Too, too close to a nerve.

Posted by: TJM on November 16, 2007 at 10:22 PM | PERMALINK

I think there is a LOT to be said for Tammy's post @9:53!
Short, and very much to the point.
If I could change just one thing in such poetry I would change:
"FUCK YOU ALL, YOU FUCKING FUCKS!!!!!"
To:
"FUCK YOU ALL, YOU FUCKING MORONS!!!!!"
Its less repetitive AND more to the point.

Posted by: jay boilswater on November 16, 2007 at 10:38 PM | PERMALINK

Over at The Moderate Voice, they have a post about this that gives a good blow by blow account. I'd link, but I'm not geeky enough to figure out how to set it up.

Also, Pete Abel has a thoughtful post on torture that is well worth the reading there.

they have been having server issues, so they may be down from time to time. At the moment, it's working.

Posted by: bob in fla on November 16, 2007 at 10:42 PM | PERMALINK

Think 1999. Think 2007. McCan't = biggest flipper flopper ever. Hands down, fer sure, a shoe-in for the next Olympic U.S.A gymnastics team...

Posted by: elmo on November 16, 2007 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

I'm waiting for McCain to go on Imus's new show and the skit about HRC being a "nappy-headed ho".

Posted by: Orlando Furioso on November 16, 2007 at 11:02 PM | PERMALINK

Ex-Lib completely misses the point.

I'll bet you're all as surprised as I am.

Posted by: glorified jughound on November 16, 2007 at 11:27 PM | PERMALINK

Apparently, I'm not one of the cool kids any more. What the hell is Bitch-Gate?

Posted by: craigie on November 16, 2007 at 11:37 PM | PERMALINK

Im for Hillary, but I have to admit that it was funny.

Hillary should embrace it. When your dealing with enemy nations (like Iran,etc...), being a "bitch" sometimes is a good thing.

I think they may have embraced it too, because after the debate, the Clinton staffers rushed to tell the press that "Hillary is Back".

Posted by: Jonesy on November 16, 2007 at 11:37 PM | PERMALINK

Is McCain horrible because one of his supporters called Hillary a bad name? If so, then Hillary is horrible, because some of her supporters have called Guiliani a fascist. Posted by: ex-liberal

McCain is a craven piece of shit. Besides choosing the low road on this one, the asshole is also on tape from some gathering in either S. or N. Carolina singing that cute ditty of the right "Bomb Iran" to the tune of "Barbara Ann." This is the same craven piece of shit who thinks Japan ought to acquire nuclear arms. This is the same craven piece of shit who caved to Shrub and Cheney about torture.

Oh ya! He's real presidential material.

Posted by: JeffII on November 16, 2007 at 11:41 PM | PERMALINK

Apparently, I'm not one of the cool kids any more. What the hell is Bitch-Gate? Posted by: craigie

What's a matter Mr. Big Stuff? Did you get a life or (unlike me) a real job so you don't have oodles of time to waste arguing on the Internet(s)?

craigie, we miss you. Please visit more often.

Posted by: JeffII on November 16, 2007 at 11:44 PM | PERMALINK

Momma's got a squeezes-box, Daddy never sleeps at night...

Posted by: elmo on November 16, 2007 at 11:48 PM | PERMALINK

Hillary should embrace it. When your dealing with enemy nations (like Iran,etc...), being a "bitch" sometimes is a good thing.

Great minds, Jonesy...I said pretty much the same thing in a post at my site when I wrote Now - here is my question...Who do you want to send to negotiate with our adversaries? The sniveling wimps who can't face down a girl without their mommies help? Or the brassy bitch who scares them shitless?


Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on November 17, 2007 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK

This is, to quote Walt Kelly (and how is he missed nowadays) a "temptress in a teapot". All it does is cast the Republicans in as bad a light as they deserve. It's one thing when the Newts and DeLays and Dick "Barney Fag" Armeys show their uncivilized selves and think they've scored points with the public; it's quite another when the ordinary Republican voter does it. The meta-message for all those independent voters out there is:

Not only are you an asshole if you're a Republican office-holder, you're almost certainly an asshole if you vote Republican, period.

Posted by: jprichva on November 17, 2007 at 12:42 AM | PERMALINK

I miss me too. But meanwhile, what's the answer to my question? Please don't make me scour the intertubes to find out.

Posted by: craigie on November 17, 2007 at 1:24 AM | PERMALINK

craigie; at a McCain rally, an older, (shall we say well-appointed?) white woman stood up and asked him "How do we stop the Bitch?" and everyone kinda got a laugh out of it, and Mad Jack raised more money in a day than he had all year (of course that became true at about nineteen bucks).

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on November 17, 2007 at 1:33 AM | PERMALINK

McCain Mc-Can't.

Posted by: Joshua Norton on November 17, 2007 at 2:52 AM | PERMALINK

"Bitch-Gate"!

I don't know about the 24% that still likes Bush. They seem so stupid or something.

Posted by: Me_again on November 17, 2007 at 4:14 AM | PERMALINK

The "How do we beat the bitch" comment at McCain's meeting of supporters was intentionally rude, but these days it comes with the territory.

After all, men have been called "sons of bitches" for a long time, to the point where it is a sign of grudging respect, as in "Boy, he's one tough sunnava bitch." When women call one another bitches that makes Hillary sound even tougher. I'm sure Ann Richards was called a bitch more than once.

As the public dialogue coarsens we're witnessing the maturation of the feminist movement -- we're in a new age of equal insults for all. Hillary should have fun with it -- on the upside, when even older, wrinkle-faced women say it it takes the shock out of wackos like Ann Coulter who will box herself further into an ideological corner as she desperately seeks new extremes of vituperation to keep her name in the public eye.

Posted by: pj in jesusland on November 17, 2007 at 5:40 AM | PERMALINK

ex-liberal: "Is McCain horrible because one of his supporters called Hillary a bad name?"

No, that woman calling Mrs. Clinton a "bitch" doesn't make John McCain a horrible person. Rather, his timid reaction to her act proved him to be a political coward.

McCain had an opportunity to demonstrate real leadership and independence by calling that woman out in front of everyone, and informing her bluntly that such profane characterizations of his Senate colleague are simply unacceptable to him. Instead, he nervously gauged the immediate reaction of his audience, then laughed alongside them.

The senator from Arizona and his supporters also proved John Dean right that night: Today's Republican Party is inherently mean-spirited, self-absorbed, and unfit to govern.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on November 17, 2007 at 5:41 AM | PERMALINK

Donald,

Hopefully dialogue in the Senate is more civil than it is out on the hustings, but I'm guessing that after a person has been tortured for years in an enemy prison a little name calling doesn't register that high on the emotional Richter scale.

Since David Atwater we have known for years that the GOP is mean spirited and unethical --

pj

Posted by: pj in jesusland on November 17, 2007 at 6:01 AM | PERMALINK

Hate sells in the Republican Party. It may be the GOP's raison d'etre.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on November 17, 2007 at 6:33 AM | PERMALINK

I'm a bit sick of people trying ot turn 'bitch' into 'n*gger' for women. Do you all get the vapors every time someone calls a man a 'prick' or a 'dick'? Somehow I doubt it, and those words both share the same meaning as 'bitch', though in the other gender-specific.

Posted by: Soullite on November 17, 2007 at 7:42 AM | PERMALINK

All the Repukeliscum have left is hate, fear, and bile. This is what motivates these scummy turds.

Posted by: POed Lib on November 17, 2007 at 8:25 AM | PERMALINK

Yes, he should buy a beer for the old crone who said it. Or a pack of Marlboroughs, judging by her voice.

Posted by: Susan on November 17, 2007 at 8:37 AM | PERMALINK

"all they have left is hate,fear and bile"

Well, how would you feel, if you were being taxed out of your McMansion? If you were being harassed by some pipsqueak underling from City Hall about cutting your water consumption for your magnificent 10 acre Versailles Garden of grass in the desert? Unless you drastically cut taxes, especially the death tax, they will have to cut back on their morning kopi luwaks, oh you of mean spirits.

A Repug without his or her kopi luwak - Is there no God?

Posted by: bert on November 17, 2007 at 9:08 AM | PERMALINK

McCain benefits as does Clinton. Maybe the Clinton campaign should now plant "bitch" questions at all Republican events. (Not saying they did this one, but it sure worked out well for her. Thanks Straight Talk Express.)

Posted by: RollaMO on November 17, 2007 at 9:09 AM | PERMALINK

Well then clearly the first step is for Michelle Malkin to start investigating this woman's counter tops. I mean, how do we know she is really a McLame supporter?

Posted by: craigie on November 17, 2007 at 9:58 AM | PERMALINK

Well the good news is that Edwards is ahead in Iowa at the moment. So maybe it won't matter that McCain is campaign against Hillary in the end.

She too scripted, planted and far too much a beltway type. AND as much as CNN declared that Hillary won, I actually think Edwards did a good job, even when he got boo, he stood his ground without blinking, and I think that was to his credit. That impressed me alot, so is he not afraid and he doesn't blink - and surely I think we'll need someone like that.

Also the news about the war and Bush's all volunteer arm is in trouble, as the facts are coming out that the US Army desertion rates rise 80 percent since 2003 Iraq invasion; highest rate since 1980

So far 4,698 soldiers deserted the military this year. I'm sure it's the repeated tours of duty that have many thinking their aren't leaving the war except in a bodybag.

Posted by: Me_again on November 17, 2007 at 10:30 AM | PERMALINK

I'd link, but I'm not geeky enough to figure out how to set it up.

You don't have to be "geeky", you just have to spend a few seconds to figure out how to use HTML before you actually participate in and HTML-based medium like you're doing right now. Cripes! Truly, this is an Eternal September.

On topic, as someone mentioned above, this has a parallel with Barbara Bush's comment and Newt Gingrich's mother's comment-- there's something about aged, gray-haired Republican women who harbor a deep-seated resentment against female democratic politicians, and they're willing to get vulgar about it.

Posted by: Tyro on November 17, 2007 at 10:33 AM | PERMALINK

She too scripted, planted and far too much a beltway type.

Which also just happens to be the best way to run a national campaign for higher office, whether we like it or not.

Posted by: Tyro on November 17, 2007 at 10:36 AM | PERMALINK

Gotta agree with ...his timid reaction to her act proved him to be a political coward

Makes me think of ... "Embarrassing, embarrasing. No wonder why we're going down the tubes."

Posted by: Bob M on November 17, 2007 at 10:44 AM | PERMALINK

Yes, someone should tell Broder about those foul-month conservative constituencies of the Republican Party. They don't need a blog to use defamatory language when the have the national media availible for public discloser.

And of course, who was it that flip-off Sen. Leahy but VP Dick Cheney? Strange how Broder ignores the very public media occurrences of obscene gestures and nasty language from the so-call value-voters.

Posted by: Me_again on November 17, 2007 at 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, that waitress and the tip - Immediately, DNA samples had to be taken.

However, when Linda Burke of the very tony Wexford Plantations in Hilton Head says "Bitch", all of the major news reports say, "unidentified supporter" - Only the local Hiton Head IslandPacket.com mentioned her name and where she lived. Of course, in that report by Tim Donnelley, he said that Rick Sanchez of CNN had "released his inner feminist" when going after the McCain team.

And yes, FAUXlib, a candidate is not responsible for words spoken by a supporter - However, when that candidate's first words are "Let me translate," and adds, "That is an excellent question" - Wake the hell up FAUX.

Of course, now Senator Clinton's best response should be "Bring 'em on". And Linda Burke now is in the front running for Mayor of Hilton Head.

Posted by: bert on November 17, 2007 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

Strange how Broder ignores the very public media occurrences of obscene gestures and nasty language from the so-call value-voters.

Big time.

Posted by: thersites on November 17, 2007 at 11:25 AM | PERMALINK

Tyro at 10:33, it's real cute to use your knowledge of HTML to link to an article mocking another person's ignorance, rather than link to an answer to the implied question. If you ask me behavior is exactly the kind of decline of the standards of discourse that the article seems to be about.

I don't know how to embed a link, either.

Posted by: thersites on November 17, 2007 at 11:31 AM | PERMALINK

If you ask me behavior is exactly the kind of decline of the standards of discourse that the article seems to be about.

The standards of discourse were that there was a strong social consequence to acting outside of accepted norms so that standards of discourse could be maintained.

I don't know how to embed a link, either.

Back in my day, we didn't parade around our ignorance like that unless we were asking how to overcome it. If anything, we silently poked around to figure out how to fix that shortcoming -- because we knew it was a shortcoming that needed to be fixed -- and we didn't even have Google.

The poster didn't ask for help in resolving his problem. You'll have to excuse me, but the web has been around since the early 90s, and there's no excuse for people saying "I don't know how to make a link." But for those who were never curious enough to click on the "View ... Page Source" menu, I draw your attention here. Was that so hard?

It pains me to say it, but sometimes I think people should look inside themselves a bit before they decry the president's brazen lack of curiosity.

Posted by: Tyro on November 17, 2007 at 11:55 AM | PERMALINK

The senator from Arizona and his supporters also proved John Dean right that night: Today's Republican Party is inherently mean-spirited, self-absorbed, and unfit to govern.
Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on November 17, 2007 at 5:41 AM
--------------
Yep, it has descended to the level of Jerry Springer trailer trash. Quite a mutation from the mannered Republicans that made up Wolfe's fictional law firm of Fogg, Nackers, Rendering & Lean.

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on November 17, 2007 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

He, he, he.

The Edwards campaign even unveiled an attack website, www.plantsforhillary.com.

Edwards has a great sense of humor anyways.

Posted by: Me_again on November 17, 2007 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, McClatchy News Service had the balls and initiative to identify Linda Burke on 11/12, beating the Hilton Head paper by four days ... but it was shy about directly quoting her, so no one picked up the story. FYI, she is a fan of Giuliani:

(From the Hilton Head Packet) "For Burke, however, national exposure isn't her only experience amplifying her feelings about the former first lady.

When Clinton moved to New York and ran for Senate, appearing in a parade outside Burke's former home on 68th Street and 5th Avenue in New York City, she stuck a megaphone out her window and yelled "GO HOME!."

"I'm terrified of her," Burke said in an interview after Monday's event. For the record, she's still undecided, but leaning toward Rudy Giuliani.


Posted by: melissa on November 17, 2007 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

melissa,

Excellent research.

Posted by: bert on November 17, 2007 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

Tyro,

Thank you for putting me so firmly in my place. I am suitably abashed.

I'm not sure when "back in my day" was, but I could very well have been coding in assembly language while your mommy was wiping your ass for you.

Posted by: thersites on November 17, 2007 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

Well, there may well be a kind of silver lining in this cloud.

For every dollar contributed over this incident to John McCain, who is a loser, there's probably two or three now going to Hillary, who looks very much to be a winner.

What's good for the goose is likely much better for the gander.

Posted by: frankly0 on November 17, 2007 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

I apologize to everyone for the second half of my comment at 1:23. Talk about lowering the standards of discourse!

Some people shouldn't be allowed on the interwebs before they've had their second cup of coffee.

Posted by: thersites on November 17, 2007 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

Topic? What topic?

I don't usually stick up for McCain, but he did get put in an awkward position there, especially after he got smacked around for distancing himself from his mother's remarks.

If we find out the "bitch" question was a plant, though, then whoever planted it is definitely not a good person.

Posted by: thersites on November 17, 2007 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

I could very well have been coding in assembly language while your mommy was wiping your ass for you.

I gotta say, I got yer back here. My better half is reading over my shoulder and he just snorted and said "let's see some of these punks put satellites in space with punchcards." If the 3-year-old granddaughter wasn't in the room, he woulda said "with fuckin' punchcards. I myself still have a desk drawer full of shoeboxes and photo envelops full of FORTRAN.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on November 17, 2007 at 5:24 PM | PERMALINK

What do you think would happen if an Obama supporter said to Obama, "I hope you beat that asshole," referring to Giuliani? And Obama just laughed about it?

* The Giuliani campaign would demand an apology from Obama.

* The person who called Giuliani an "asshole" would be identified in the press and be physically harassed and threatened by wingnut bloggers and their followers.

* The Sunday morning chat shows would discuss how badly this is going to hurt Obama.

* The right-wing commentariat would call for Obama to drop out of the race.

* Obama would eventually have to deliver a groveling apology to Giuliani and have to talk about how much he respects Herr Mayor.

Posted by: Boots Day on November 17, 2007 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

BG: "let's see some of these punks put satellites in space with punchcards."

Jeez, and I thought you used hydrazine or something. ;-)

BTW, Firefox's spell check barfs on "punchards." This does not mean that we're old...

Posted by: thersites on November 17, 2007 at 5:33 PM | PERMALINK

Todays IT folks aren't going to get to do some of the stuff we did "back in the day" - for instance...I once fixed the print head on a DMP in the lab administration office - back in the day when departments printed their own checks - with an earring and a twist tie. I didn't buy a beer for a month after I saved payday.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on November 17, 2007 at 6:19 PM | PERMALINK

pj in jesusland: "Hopefully dialogue in the Senate is more civil than it is out on the hustings, but I'm guessing that after a person has been tortured for years in an enemy prison a little name calling doesn't register that high on the emotional Richter scale."

(Sigh!) Must people always offer up that "Well, he was a POW, y'know" excuse as the good senator's political Get Out of Jail Free card?

Maybe I should also excuse my own occasional deviations from civil behavior by claiming that I'm a victim of the Vietnam War, too, since I lost my father to that conflict whilst in my formative years as a child.

Bad things can happen all too often during wartime to otherwise-good people for no particular reason. While it might well be a valid explanation psychologically for remaining emotionally-stunted the rest of your life, the best of us can and will pull it back together and move on.

Since I've never heard Sen. McCain use his POW experience as an excuse for his non-physical shortcomings, I'm therefore inclined not to accept it from others, however well-intentioned they might be.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on November 17, 2007 at 9:10 PM | PERMALINK

While McCain said he'd sign the FairTax bill (HR 25/S 1025) if presented, he's in no way an adequate spokesman for it.

Mike Huckabee is an adroit public speaker. He communicates his message in life-like, cogent terms, with compelling examples like the story he told (at the Ames Straw Poll) of what his then-11-yo daughter entered into the "Comments" section of a Visitors Book after visiting the Yad Vashem holocaust museum: ?Why didn't somebody do something?? Very effective.

Huckabee is all about calling his listeners to "do something," to awaken them to their own empowerment, and summon them to action in order that "Main Street," and not "Wall Street," will prevail in guarding the values and beliefs upon which the Republic was founded.

Huckabee puts his listeners at ease, and reassures them, articulating clear concepts in a natural, easy style (no doubt something well-cultivated as a pastor). He?s not as ?mechanically-scripted? as Romney, nor angry or demanding, like a Ron Paul, and his large brown eyes, peering through a humble demeanor, draw a striking contrast to a unconvincing, tired-looking Thompson. One can easily imagine sitting comfortably with Mike over a cup of coffee at the Main Street Cafe.

Most importantly, perhaps, Huckabee convinces many that he is ONE with the FairTax grassroots movement. While many - like Romney, and others, who are invested in the current income tax system - seek to demagog the well-researched FairTax plan, its acceptance in the professional / academic community continues to grow. Renown economist Laurence Kotlikoff believes that failure to enact the FairTax - choosing instead to try to "flatten" what he deems to be a non-flattenable income tax system - will eventuate into an irrevocable economic meltdown because of the hidden aspects of the current system that make political accountability impossible.

Romney's recent WEAK response to FairTax questioning on ?This Week with Geo. Stephanopoulos? drew a sharper contrast between Huckabee and all other presidential front-runners who will not embrace it. Huckabee understands that what's wrong with the income tax can't be fixed with "a tap of the hammer, nor a twist of the screwdriver." That his opponents cling to the destructive Tax Code, the IRS, preserving political power of granting tax favors at continued cost to - and misery of - American families, invigorates his campaign's raison d'etre.

Of the FairTax, Huckabee asserts that it's...

- SIMPLE, easy to understand
- EFFICIENT, inexpensive to comply with and doesn't cause less-than-optimal business decisions for tax minimization purposes
- FAIR, FLAT, and FAMILY FRIENDLY, loophole-free, and everyone pays their share
- LOW TAX RATE is achieved by broad base with no exclusions
- PREDICTABLE, doesn't change, so financial planning is possible
- UNINTRUSIVE, doesn't intrude into our personal affairs or limit our liberty
- VISIBLE, not hidden from the public in tax-inflated prices or otherwise
- PRODUCTIVE, rewards - rather than penalizes - work and productivity

A detailed benefits analysis of the plan (from The FairTax Book) explains Huckabee's ardent advocacy:

For individuals:
- No more tax on income - make as much as you wish
- You receive your full paycheck - no more deductions
- You pay the tax when you buy "at retail" - not "used"
- No more double taxation (e.g. like on current Capital Gains)
- Reduction of "pre-FairTaxed" retail prices by 20%-30%
- Adding back 29.9% FairTax maintains current price levels
- FairTax would constitute 23% portion of new prices
- Every household receives a monthly check, or "pre-bate"
- "Prebate" is "advance tax payback" for monthly consumption to poverty level
- FairTax's "prebate" ensures progressivity, poverty protection
- Finally, citizens are knowledgeable of what their tax IS
- Elimination of "parasitic" Income Tax industry
- NO MORE IRS. NO MORE FILING OF TAX RETURNS by individuals
- Those possessing illicit forms of income will ALSO pay the FairTax
- Households have more disposable income to purchase goods
- Savings is bolstered with reduction of interest rates

For businesses:
- Corporate income and payroll taxes revoked under FairTax
- Business compensated for collecting tax at "cash register"
- No more tax-related lawyers, lobbyists on company payrolls
- No more embedded (hidden) income/payroll taxes in prices
- Reduced costs. Competition - not tax policy - drives prices
- Off-shore "tax haven" headquarters can now return to U.S
- No more "favors" from politicians at expense of taxpayers
- Resources go to R&D and study of competition - not taxes
- Global "free (and equitable) trade" becomes possible for currently-disadvanted U.S. exports
- U.S. exports increase their share of foreign markets

For the country:
- 7% - 13% economic growth projected in the first year of the FairTax
- Jobs return to the U.S.
- Foreign corporations "set up shop" in the U.S.
- Tax system trends are corrected to "enlarge the pie"
- Larger economic "pie," means thinner tax rate "slices"
- Initial 23% portion of price is pressured downward as "pie" increases
- No more "closed door" tax deals by politicians and business
- FairTax sets new global standard. Other countries will follow

Passionately supporting FairTax, Huckabee understands that, if elected President, Congress will have to present the bill for his signature. His call to action goes beyond his candidacy: Main Street will have to demand that their legislators deliver the bill.

(Permission is granted to reproduce, in whole or part. - Ian)

Posted by: Ian from Ann Arbor on November 17, 2007 at 9:54 PM | PERMALINK

McCain says he will respect Clinton, Question is who in the Hell Respects McCain, little Bush wanna be S.O.B.

Posted by: Al on November 18, 2007 at 12:29 AM | PERMALINK

Bush criticies Democrats on Iraq war funds, well I criticies Bush for starting this war to begin with, STUPID AZZ BASTARD!

Posted by: Al on November 18, 2007 at 12:35 AM | PERMALINK

McCain Says avoid boosting hostile leaders, then I say avoid Bush the most Hostile U.S. President to ever hold the office of LIARS and Thieves.

Posted by: Al on November 18, 2007 at 12:40 AM | PERMALINK

So if Hillary and McCain win the nominations our choices will be THE Bitch and Bush's Bitch.

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that application of the word, the opposite meaning it takes according to gender, and the uncomfortable comparison it invites for Bush-kisser John McCain.

More importantly and less on topic...

[thersites] ...spell check barfs on "punchards."

That must be the alternate spelling of punshards, the fragmented remains of a broken joke. Eventually Firefox will catch up.

Posted by: dennisS on November 18, 2007 at 7:55 AM | PERMALINK

Point of order? How does Ian's post last evening get on this site with that many links? Especially links to a candidate's propaganda.

Ian, have you tried to do the math? The sales tax rate needed to fund the Federal Gov't is actually over 40% and closer to 50%, not the 30% (the 29.9% figure is a classic retail pricing ploy--it's only $29.95!) fiction that the "Fair Tax" proponents advocate.

Such a tax is in no way progressive, even with the "rebate" based on poverty level income for families.

The current system has plenty of flaws, but the Republican candidates all fail(except Ron Paul) to state clearly that the war in Iraq is the root cause of the current Federal deficit; not the IRS, not the Education department and it's certainly not Social Security.

End the war, save not only dollars but the dollar.

Posted by: TJM on November 18, 2007 at 9:39 AM | PERMALINK

Donald,

Ok, let's stop rationalizing McCain's behavior in the context of his imprisonment during the Vietnam War.

Let's just say "Big deal" to Bitchgate and call it a day.

Posted by: pj in jesusland on November 18, 2007 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

Read Jonathan Rowe remembrance and articles
Email Newsletter icon, E-mail Newsletter icon, Email List icon, E-mail List icon Sign up for Free News & Updates

Advertise in WM



buy from Amazon and
support the Monthly