Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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December 3, 2007
By: Kevin Drum

HO HO HO....Sure, the dollar is plummeting, the housing market is tanking, and the entire U.S. banking industry is all but insolvent. But at least wages and employment have gone up this year — or so we thought until the Commerce Department's latest revision of income and job statistics:

The new report concluded that personal income from wages and salaries grew at an annual rate of 1.6 percent in the second quarter, far below the 4.5 percent that had previously been estimated.

The government did not explain why the revision was made....But it was most likely, said Robert J. Barbera, the chief economist of ITG, that the largest part of the revision came from a change in employment estimates.

If so, he said, he expected the government would revise its estimate of the number of jobs created in the quarter, to as little as 50,000 a month from 126,000 a month. That would indicate that the economy was much weaker than had been thought.

Apparently part of the problem is due to our old friend, the mismatch between the payroll employment report and the household employment report. More on that later, I'm sure. In the meantime, though, just another reason to feel a little less jolly this holiday season.

The other reason to feel less jolly, of course, is that Ohio State is in the BCS championship game yet again. I hope LSU kicks their ass.

Kevin Drum 12:23 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (47)

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DARFUR NOW!!

Posted by: kayleigh on December 3, 2007 at 12:36 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Can you make any sense out of why the markets are not adjusting appropriately right now? The fact is that the economy looks pretty bleak and the NYSE keeps going up and down but doesn't settle down, down, down like it should. Eh, probably just the "economic opportunity specialists" taking their cuts off of every transaction til insolvency sets in...for their clients.

Posted by: parrot on December 3, 2007 at 12:47 AM | PERMALINK

Bah. LSU lost a week ago to an unranked foe, and earlier in the season to another unranked foe. OSU lost to the #13 team. They deserve to be there. LSU, however, did NOT deserve to be jumped from 7 to 2.

Posted by: Mike D on December 3, 2007 at 12:55 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin: "... Ohio State is in the BCS championship game yet again. I hope LSU kicks their ass."

Well, it's been one crazy college football season. To be perfectly honest, I fail to see any difference between Ohio State backing into the BCS championship game in the manner it did, and your USC Trojans having to rely upon an almost inexplicable Oregon meltdown in order to reach the Rose Bowl. It is what it is. Please don't sound too bitter.

Speaking for myself, I'm at least thankful that Hawaii finally got some well-deserved recognition for its accomplishments, and was invited to play Georgia in the Sugar Bowl.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii, & currently in Chicago on December 3, 2007 at 12:57 AM | PERMALINK

Illinois will play USC in the Rose Bowl. Illinois is gonna kick a little California butt, INHIO.

Want to put a little on this, Kev? Loser to make a contribution of $25 to Democrat of the winner's choice?

Posted by: POed Lib on December 3, 2007 at 1:00 AM | PERMALINK

I think that unemployment is more like 8 %, not 4.8 %. I think that the economy is already in somewhat of a recession. We don't make anything anymore. What do we do to make things of value? For the last 6 years, there can be 500,000 new jobs in a month, or a loss of jobs, and there is NEVER a single change in unemployment. All cooked.

Posted by: POed Lib on December 3, 2007 at 1:04 AM | PERMALINK

I've always considered LSU to be part of the Axis of Evil - along with USC and Ohio State. Miami, Florida State Michigan and Notre Dame used to be members, but you can't root against teams that well, aren't very good.

Posted by: brooks on December 3, 2007 at 1:33 AM | PERMALINK

Mike: I'm not really rooting for LSU. I'm just rooting against Ohio State. I don't really have any strong opinion about which 2-loss team should have made it to the title game.

Donald: We too are happy to see Hawaii in a BCS bowl, and doubly happy that it's the very appropriate Sugar Bowl.

However, Oregon's meltdown wasn't inexplicable. There were two reasons. The biggest is that Dennis Dixon got hurt, and he was obviously critical to the Ducks' success. The second is that Oregon's early schedule was easier than their later schedule.

The Pac-10 was injury central this year. USC definitely backed into the conference championship, but then again, if it weren't for their own injuries they probably wouldn't have lost the two games they lost. Just one of those things.

Posted by: Kevin Drum on December 3, 2007 at 1:33 AM | PERMALINK

"...Ohio State is in the BCS championship game yet again"

Yes, don't you just HATE it when the same teams are in the big bowls year after year after year!

In other - and totally unrelated - news, USC makes their sixth straight BSC game!

Posted by: Robert Earle on December 3, 2007 at 1:40 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Thanks for correcting Donald from Hawaii's description of Oregon's meltdown as "inexplicable," however, your explanation was only half accurate. Dixon going down was certainly the primary, and perhaps sole, reason for the losses. The second part, that "Oregon's early schedule was easier than their later schedule" isn't right. Oregon beat USC and Arizona State, the toughest stretch in their schedule, then lost the last three to unranked opponents. The losses came immediately following the Dixon injury, not due to a toughening schedule. This is not a coincidence.

About Hawaii, I find it a shame that they were left out of the BCS Championship game. If there is ever a year for a non-major conference team to make the big game it was this year. The BCS committee took a 2-loss team (who had TWO shots as the #1 ranked team) over the only undefeated team. The BCS folks drew a line in the sand that says, "If you aren't in a major conference you cannot win a national championship. Period."

It was understandable when Boise State was left out last year b/c there was such stiff competition from numerous one-loss teams, but it's a shame not to give Hawaii, and by extension all non-major conference teams, a shot.

Posted by: Zachary on December 3, 2007 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINK

Too bad it couldn't have been USC and Oklahoma or Georgia in the championship game. They are the hottest teams right now. After watching SC destroy the Sun Devils and Bruins, I'm convinced they've finally become the team everyone expected to see back in September.

And props to my alma mater Hawaii, which pulled off the improbable feat of making it to the BCS, despite having a fraction of the budget enjoyed by the big schools from the big bad conferences. Just hope they make a game of it in the Sugar Bowl.

On the other question, regarding the ability of the market to defy gravity, the Fed will not let this market crash. They pump in billions a week through the FOMC "feed" to the financial institutions. Of course, the inflation in the money supply is driving the dollar to new depths, but better to let the dollar crash than the market.

Also, the markets are relieved to hear the Fed and the administration have signaled that they will come up with a plan to bail out the financial institutions. The profits made on the subprime loans and other dubious lending practices were all privatized, flowing into corporate coffers. But the losses will be socialized, with the tax payers picking up the tab for making corporate American whole again.

Posted by: DevilDog on December 3, 2007 at 1:52 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin: "However, Oregon's meltdown wasn't inexplicable. There were two reasons. The biggest is that Dennis Dixon got hurt, and he was obviously critical to the Ducks' success. The second is that Oregon's early schedule was easier than their later schedule."

I'm sorry, Kevin, but I'm going to disagree.

When No. 2-ranked Oregon, having just beaten both USC and Arizona State to control its own destiny, proceeds to lose three in a row (including two to teams with non-winning records) to blow the Pac-10 title, I think that qualifies as an "inexplicable meltdown" - I don't care if star QB Dennis Dixon got hurt and couldn't play.

When one considers the overall wealth of talent on that team besides Dixon, if Oregon's late-season collapse doesn't qualify as startling, then the Ducks were the classic definition of a one-trick pony.

And frankly, what does that say about the Oregon coaching staff, that they would allow the entire team's fortune to apparently rise and fall with the fate of but one player? Why were they that fragile physically, mentally and emotionally?

I mean, look -- the very same weekend that Oregon's Dixon was lost, Hawaii's own Heisman-hopeful QB Colt Brennan was literally "knocked out" of the Fresno State game by a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit early in the 3rd quarter. He suffered a Grade 3 concussion, and also did not play the following week on the road in Reno against a pretty tough Nevada team. The Warriors also lost their leading tackler with a stress fracture to his right ankle.

You certainly didn't see the entire Warrior football team subsequently and collectively fold up like cheap patio furniture, did you?

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii, & currently in Chicago on December 3, 2007 at 2:58 AM | PERMALINK

Commenter "parrot" above says: "Can you make any sense out of why the markets are not adjusting appropriately right now? The fact is that the economy looks pretty bleak and the NYSE keeps going up and down but doesn't settle down, down, down like it should."

I have a lot of respect for Mr. Drum, but he is a pundit with access to some set of widely available public data, which he has just repeated to you. Do you think any of this is news to the markets? Do you think the fund managers whose careers ride on this have put in less intellectual effort than Mr. Drum gave to an off-the-cuff blog post?

This attitude accomplishes two things. First, it makes you look like a prat. Second, and more importantly, it provides an apparent justification for the progressive desire to decrease freedom with more regulations, more government intervention, and more redistribution: because if you really believe that everyone but you is an idiot, it naturally follows that they shouldn't have control over anything, even their own investments and their own lives.

A little respect for your equals can go a long way.

Posted by: sammler on December 3, 2007 at 3:22 AM | PERMALINK

and please note 50,000 jobs per month is *far* below the approximately 150,000 jobs per month (more by some estimates) it takes to keep up with the net growth in the workforce. the employment to population ratio is still well below what it was when clinton left, even after all these years of fabulous republican stewardship.

Posted by: supersaurus on December 3, 2007 at 5:58 AM | PERMALINK

supersaurus: the employment to population ratio is still well below what it was when clinton left

True, and yet the unemployment rate isn't much different. This seeming paradox is explained by two factors:

1. The employment figure supersaurus refers to counts salaried workers. It excludes self-employed and temporary workers, two categories that are growing.

2. People are choosing not to work. The average retirement age is dropping. More mothers are choosing to stay home.

Posted by: ex-liberal on December 3, 2007 at 6:40 AM | PERMALINK

We'll let Winston Smith explain the revision of the numbers...

"But actually, he thought as he re-adjusted the Ministry of Plenty's figures, it was not even forgery. It was merely the substitution of one piece of nonsense for another. Most of the material that you were dealing with had no connexion with anything in the real world, not even the kind of connexion that is contained in a direct lie. Statistics were just as much a fantasy in their original version as in their rectified version. A great deal of the time you were expected to make them up out of your head. For example, the Ministry of Plenty's forecast had estimated the output of boots for the quarter at 145 million pairs. The actual output was given as sixty-two millions. Winston, however, in rewriting the forecast, marked the figure down to fifty-seven millions, so as to allow for the usual claim that the quota had been overfulfilled. In any case, sixty-two millions was no nearer the truth than fifty-seven millions, or than 145 millions. Very likely no boots had been produced at all. Likelier still, nobody knew how many had been produced, much less cared. All one knew was that every quarter astronomical numbers of boots were produced on paper, while perhaps half the population of Oceania went barefoot.

Posted by: e. nonee moose on December 3, 2007 at 7:48 AM | PERMALINK

Not knowing much about the process, I would nevertheless propose that initial job figures are rather more politically motivated things the pro-biz bureaucracy produces which most knowledgable people take with a few salt grains until the far more respectable revised figures appear a couple months down the line.

Second I would propose that the notion that Wall Streeters are keepers of some acute understanding as to the true nature of things, which the rest of us, lacking their resources, could not begin to grasp, is nonsense.

Posted by: Will Divide on December 3, 2007 at 7:52 AM | PERMALINK

Shorter sammier: The market has already discounted this negative information.

This is the standard perma-Bull line. Since the information is publically available, and it did not go down, it must have already been taken into account. So the market's failure to blink is taken as a sign that everything is okay.

Posted by: Walker on December 3, 2007 at 8:07 AM | PERMALINK

Good news again America, tax refunds will be late if you recieve any at all. and the National Debt is swelling to one million a minute and who do we have to Thank for this, Bushy Baby and his aministration of Misfits, Now go ahead and vote for another republican you dumb azzes.

Posted by: Al on December 3, 2007 at 8:34 AM | PERMALINK

the dollar is plummeting, the housing market is tanking, and the entire U.S. banking industry is all but insolvent.
Two out of three is very good for Kevin. The first is highly visible (paying for UK tuition), tanking is a good description for the decrease in the housing market's value, volume and velocity.
Where do you get the third? I follow some of this rather closely, working for a bank, and I can't find evidence of the entire industry being "all but insolvent". I suppose I can ask our OCC examiners, they're here somewhat permanently.
Is this a Drum phrase that's code for money center bank woes?

Posted by: TJM on December 3, 2007 at 8:41 AM | PERMALINK

[OT]: In other significant news, of late:

Who's Afraid of Barack Obama?
By Frank Rich [New York Times]

... Now that the Beltway establishment, jolted by the Iowa polls, is frantically revising its premature blueprints for a Clinton coronation and declaring, as Time's inevitable clich would have it, that Mr. Obama has "found his voice," it's worth looking at some campaign story lines that have been ignored so far. They tell us more than the hyped scenarios that have fallen apart. Indeed, they flip the standard narrative of Campaign 2008 on its head: Were Mr. Obama to best Mrs. Clinton for the Democratic nomination, he may prove harder for the Republicans to rally against and defeat than the all-powerful, battle-tested Clinton machine. ...
.

Posted by: Poilu on December 3, 2007 at 9:23 AM | PERMALINK

"Illinois is gonna kick a little California butt, INHIO."

POed Lib, if you truly believe this you're as delusional as so many of my fellow Michigan fans. Kevin, take him up on his $25 offer—the Dems can always use more money.

On two recent occasions Michigan has taken better teams than this year's Illinois team out to Pasadena to play Carroll's USC teams, and the vast majority of UM fans I know confidently predicted that UM would win handily.

Fan bravado doesn't mean squat. USC whipped us from one end of the field to the other in both games like they were playing the Washtenaw County Barber's College. The Rose Bowl is for all intents and purposes a home game for USC, and the extent and depth of talent at USC is at this point is far better than Illinois. They are faster, quicker, bigger where advantageous, and in Carroll they have a tremendous game-day coach.

I think Zook is an underrated coach, and if he stays at Illinois I predict they will supplant Michigan's second-place spot in the Big Ten to challenge Ohio State. Michigan appears to be a program on the way down right now.

Look at it this way: Michigan has been one of the most disappointing and poorly-coached teams in the country this year, and I have no doubt that Tebow will lead Florida to put a whippin' on us even while carrying the Heisman trophy in one arm. And we beat Illinois on their home field.

Posted by: bluestatedon on December 3, 2007 at 9:47 AM | PERMALINK

It will be very difficult for Illinois to beat USC on USC's homefield and it will be as difficult for OSU to beat LSU on LSU's homefield (or approximate homefields). But, if it were the other way around, I'd say USC loses to Illinois in Illinois and LSU loses to OSU in OSU- but the bowl gods have decided that no one wants to come to Big Ten country in December and January - and their right.

Posted by: DougMN on December 3, 2007 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

the dollar is plummeting, the housing market is tanking, and the entire U.S. banking industry is all but insolvent.

We're number one! We're number one!

Posted by: craigie on December 3, 2007 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINK

Wow kevin can't you let us Ohio people have a little something something. We got it pretty bad hear and hangin on to little football glory helps keep our chins up. Buttttttt Noooooo. Fuck USC and UCLA

Posted by: Gandalf on December 3, 2007 at 10:28 AM | PERMALINK

1. The employment figure supersaurus refers to counts salaried workers. It excludes self-employed and temporary workers, two categories that are growing.

2. People are choosing not to work. The average retirement age is dropping. More mothers are choosing to stay home.

Blimey, what crap. you need to read more widely

Posted by: craigie on December 3, 2007 at 10:45 AM | PERMALINK

I'm rooting for OSU even though I agree they don't belong in the BCS championship game. I also think that LSU is defeatable and that OSUs coach WILL be better prepared this year. Tressel is a very good coach - much better and much classier than Les 'Trump up My Own Salary with Lies' Miles.

Also, I hope USC's a** gets kicked into the Pacific Ocean by a team that couldn't even beat Michigan at home in Champaign!!! :-))

Posted by: Brian on December 3, 2007 at 10:47 AM | PERMALINK

State and local governments took taxpayers' money and invested in these fraudulent mortgage-based instruments. By definition, the people stuck with the loss are the taxpayers, and when their pockets are picked to make up the losses, there is going to be hell to pay.

Posted by: bob h on December 3, 2007 at 11:00 AM | PERMALINK

This could be some alternative universe that I woke up in this morning. I agree with Brian.

Posted by: Gandalf on December 3, 2007 at 11:10 AM | PERMALINK

"The Rose Bowl is for all intents and purposes a home game for USC, and the extent and depth of talent at USC is at this point is far better than Illinois."

Tell that to Stanford as well.

Who'd they beat this year? I know they lost to Notre Dame. But they beat somebody big this year. 42 point underdog or something like that.

Posted by: bubba on December 3, 2007 at 11:34 AM | PERMALINK

TJM said:
Where do you get the third? I follow some of this rather closely, working for a bank, and I can't find evidence of the entire industry being "all but insolvent". I suppose I can ask our OCC examiners, they're here somewhat permanently.

From today's NYTimes Krugman column:
“What we are witnessing,” says Bill Gross of the bond manager Pimco, “is essentially the breakdown of our modern-day banking system, a complex of leveraged lending so hard to understand that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke required a face-to-face refresher course from hedge fund managers in mid-August.”

Posted by: kahner on December 3, 2007 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK

bob h: there is going to be hell to pay.

Who's gonna punish them? Not Congress. They're working hard on the bail out and making those tax dollars available. Certainly not the news media (especially the financial media). They're not pointing any fingers, unless they're blaming the victims of the fraud, saying, "They should have known better; it's their own fault."

Posted by: DevilDog on December 3, 2007 at 12:21 PM | PERMALINK

I must admit that I was wrong about the falling retirement age. According to the LA Times, it had been falling for a long time, but has now begun rising:

After falling for over 100 years, retirement age in U.S. is now rising

http://www.lao.ca.gov/retireehealth/RetSummary.aspx?id=190

Posted by: ex-liberal on December 3, 2007 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINK
1. .... It excludes self-employed and temporary workers, two categories that are growing.2. People are choosing not to work.... ex-lax at 6:40 AM
5000 apply for crappy Wal mart jobs near Detroit, 25000 near Chicago

...25,000 people applied for 325 job openings in the company's new store, located just one block west of the city's boundary in south suburban Evergreen Park, the Chicago Sun-Times reported. ...
People are so desperate for work in the Bush economy, they will even take the crappiest of retail jobs that pay meager wages.
We can be confident that, like all its other statistics, the Bush administration cooks the books on these as well.

Posted by: Mike on December 3, 2007 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

My guess is this report was intentionally released with an air of gloom and doom to justify a cut of at least 50 bp of the fed funds rate next week. In fact, I will not be shocked if we see a 75 or even 100 bp cut. The financial markets are in complete panic mode, and the fed will do everything it can to save their Wall St buddies. That's why the market isn't crashing. That, and the PPT has been very very active as of let, IMHO.

Posted by: CKT on December 3, 2007 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, you're too young to remember how Ohio State swarmed all over USC's O.J. Simpson in the 1969 Rose Bowl, so why the hard-on for OSU?

Posted by: buddy66 on December 3, 2007 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

Mike: We can be confident that, like all its other statistics, the Bush administration cooks the books on these as well.

I sincerely doubt it. The Dept of Labor is staffed with long-term, professional civil service workers. If Bush tried to cook the books, they would know it, and Bush's effort would be quickly leaked to the public.

Posted by: ex-liberal on December 3, 2007 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Donald,

I'm afraid you don't have the entire quarterback story at Oregon. First-stringer Dixon goes down against ASU. Second stringer Brady Leaf gets injured on the first (or second) series of the Arizona game when he comes in in relief. Third-stringer Nathan Costa is already out with a blown knee from practice. Now Oregon is playing their fourth and fifth string freshmen quarterbacks. Take any team (some teams don't even have quarterbacks that deep!) and dig that deep at the most important position and you're going to have a hard time moving the ball.

Add to that that Oregon lost it's #2 running back and #1 and #2 wide receivers to injury and you can see why the offense had such trouble moving the ball after losing Dixon. Dixon was such a talented player he could make up for these injuries, but our less-talented quarterback could not. All this said Oregon had a chance late in each of its final three games.

On another note, in my book your Hawaii team deserved a shot at the championship game. This was the year for a mid-major to have a shot!

Posted by: Zachary on December 3, 2007 at 2:36 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, as someone whose religion is LSU football (you're born into it down here; I truly can't help it) I can agree with just about every one of LSU's detractors - LSU is obviously defeatable - they lost twice to very good opponents (each time in triple overtime, though). However, I don't think the character assassination on Les Miles is going to stick. He had to at least entertain the possibility of coaching at his alma mater (it has been his dream job for years), and he announced early that he was foregoing that opportunity to stay at LSU. The guy's a class act. Overpaid? Of course - the whole system's out of whack. But a class act nonetheless. Oh, and Kevin, LSU is going to kick the crap out of OSU. OSU is not as good this year as last year, and as I'm sure you recall, Florida cleaned the carpet with them.

P.S. Apparently the Vegas line guys, if there were a playoff system on neutral fields, would give Florida the best chance of winning the national championship. Discuss amongst yourselves.

Posted by: Trent on December 3, 2007 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

"Tell that to Stanford as well."

There's no doubt that Stanford played a great game, and hats off to them. However, Booty injured a finger on his throwing hand in the second quarter, and ended up throwing 4 interceptions for the game. I'm also sure that USC just took Stanford lightly, just as Michigan did Appalachian State.

Bowl games under Pete Carroll are a different matter. I doubt they'll be taking Illinois lightly, and unless Juice Williams can uncork a Vince Young-like performance I think Illinois is in for a humbling evening.

Posted by: bluestatedon on December 3, 2007 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

Re: Illinois vs USC

Illinois runs a 'spread' offense, and the most similiar Pac 10 team would be Oregon (though Oregon's injured QB is certainly more proficient at it that Illinois' QB). So to the extent that USC had trouble with Oregon, look for Illinois' spread to do almost as well as the Ducks did. Plus, Illinois has a real (ie. non-QB spread 'decide' play) and vey effective running attack.

On the other side of the ball, Illinois's defense is definitely better than Oregon's. Yes, Booty missed the Oregon game, and that is something for Trojan fans to pin their hopes on.

So in Illinois, USC should think Oregon, but with a better running attack, and better D.

USC favored by 14?? Take the Illini and the points.

Posted by: Robert Earle on December 3, 2007 at 3:21 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin?? Kevin???? So, you gutless wonder you, quit petting them cats and put that money down.

Is this straight or with the spread? With the spread, it's a slam dunk for Illinois.

Posted by: POed Lib on December 3, 2007 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

Every couple of days, I wander thru the blogs and always thought yours was insightful, educational and enjoyable. But then I read a line: "The other reason to feel less jolly, of course, is that Ohio State is in the BCS championship game yet again. I hope LSU kicks their ass."

Tsk! TSK! Makes me want to reconsider my blog list! And of course anyone might note that if it weren't for a missed replay tape, the Bucks could very well be undefeated.
No guarantee that they won't do what happens a lot - screw the pooch and blow the big one - but I'll proudly hang my grey O on the scarlet background flag at full mast until they are defeated. Go Bucks!!

Posted by: cassie on December 3, 2007 at 8:24 PM | PERMALINK

"missed replay call" you wouldn't be whining and moaning about the ROYAL PASTING that the ILLINI stapled on the Bucks, now, wouldja? That fourth quarter was a succession of miracles. There is simply NO DOUBT that gawd is an Illini after that fourth quarter. Every time that Juice touched the ball, he gained 15 yards, and got a first down. Oh, it was choice, CHOICE, I tell ya... The best game I've ever seen, myself, and I used to teach at OSU (1983-1989).

Meanwhile, WHERE IS KEVIN? Kevin, you gutless wonder, there's a proposition on the table...

Posted by: POed Lib on December 3, 2007 at 10:10 PM | PERMALINK

My wife and I are both Buckeyes. But we exulted when the Gators cleaned OSU's clock last year, and hope LSU will do the same.

It's just too much fun tormenting her relatives in Columbus from our safe vantage point in Tallahassee. (Yes..before you say it: TOO safe the way FSU's been doing).

The best possible opening would be for the Bucks to run back the opening kickoff for a touchdown. Then they could lie down and get stomped. Tebow is the most impressive sophomore in the game. Tressell was outcoached by Urban Meyer last year, and will be similarly embarasssed by Les Miles this time.

Count on it!

Posted by: wileycat on December 4, 2007 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINK

Zook sure 'nuff flumoxxed him this year. Man, I was hootin' 'n' hollerin' during that fourth quarter. Wow, what a RUSH to see the Illini put a 1ST CLASS WHOOPIN' ONTO OSU! Whooo boy. Yowsa!!

Posted by: POed Lib on December 4, 2007 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

POed Lib -

Even better that Zook was last at Florida. The Gator Curse struck OSU twice in a year!

Tressell can't handle 4th and forever. LSU can.

Sweet.

Posted by: wileycat on December 4, 2007 at 4:18 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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