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Tilting at Windmills

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December 29, 2007

GIULIANI SURROGATE CALLS MUSLIMS 'MADMEN'....John Deady, a designated surrogate for Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, and a leader of "Veterans for Rudy," was caught on video making some jaw-dropping comments about Muslims. Here's what Deady said about Giuliani:

"He's got I believe the knowledge and the judgment to attack one of the most difficult problems in current history and that is the rise of the Muslims, and make no mistake about it, this hasn't happened for a thousand years. These people are very, very dedicated and they're also very smart, in their own way. We need to keep the feet to the fire and keep pressing these people until we defeat or chase them back to their caves -- or in other words get rid of them."

It certainly sounded like Deady wasn't just targeting so-called "Islamofascists," but rather was talking publicly about chasing all Muslims "back to their caves," and getting "rid of them."

Greg Sargent tracked Deady down yesterday afternoon, and the Giuliani surrogate didn't back down at all. Indeed, he made matters worse. Asked, for example, if he stood by his comments, Deady said:

"I most assuredly do. I've been very concerned about this Muslim thing for quite awhile. The average American does not know beans about what the Muslims are about. I am talking about the Muslims in general. I don't subscribe to the principle that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims. They're all Muslims."

Deady added, "When I say get rid of them, I wasn't necessarily referring to genocide."

He wasn't "necessarily" referring to genocide?

As of late last night, the Giuliani campaign said it would ask Deady to resign "if these quotes are accurate." Stay tuned.

Steve Benen 11:45 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (86)

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Comments

Deady must go. He's clearly too stupid to have mastered the art of dog whistle statements designed attract those who think like he does but don't so clearly embarrass the Rudy! campaign.

Posted by: Jeff S. on December 29, 2007 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

I think "Muslims" here is a kind of shorthand that really means "Mexicans" and "Huckabee supporters".

Posted by: lampwick on December 29, 2007 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINK

Here is a link to Deady's original comment to the Guardian. Give it a look. The guy sound's "reasonable" in a batshit insane sort of way. I haven't read where the Giuliani campaign has distanced itself from their guy.

Posted by: corpus juris on December 29, 2007 at 12:21 PM | PERMALINK

Last night (th)he Giuliani campaign said it would ask Deady to resign "if these quotes are accurate." "They are inappropriate and not reflective of our campaign," said Wayne Semprini, Giuliani's New Hampshire chairman.

I guess they are still investigating.

You know egbert, you and Mr. Deady sound like "peas in a pod."

Posted by: corpus juris on December 29, 2007 at 12:26 PM | PERMALINK

Cue Al.

Posted by: Gore/Edwards 08 on December 29, 2007 at 12:27 PM | PERMALINK

And so it begins.

It was only a matter of time before someone well-placed actually articulated the desires of millions of USAmericans to exterminate the Muslim hoards.

I can't see how Guiliani can fire this guy without risking losing what remaining support he has.

Posted by: Disputo on December 29, 2007 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

It reminds me of Andrew Jackson's saying, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." Some things never change.

Posted by: Mazurka on December 29, 2007 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINK

Jackson was right.
Deady is right.
And the MAJORITY of Americans agree with both.
Sorry libs.

[This comment was left up to highlight its racism and stupidity and as a reminder of why it's important to foster good education and progressive ideals]

Posted by: Frank Lobo on December 29, 2007 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

Imagine reading the following:

"He's got I believe the knowledge and the judgment to attack one of the most difficult problems in current history and that is the rise of the Jews, and make no mistake about it, this hasn't happened for a thousand years. These people are very, very dedicated and they're also very smart, in their own way. We need to keep the feet to the fire and keep pressing these people until we defeat or chase them back to their caves -- or in other words get rid of them."

"I've been very concerned about this Jew thing for quite awhile. The average American does not know beans about what the Jews are about. I am talking about the Jews in general. I don't subscribe to the principle that there are good Jews and bad Jews. They're all Jews."

It's incredible that the Giuliani campaign hasn't dropped him already. "If these quotes are accurate."? It's on video!!

But I guess he wasn't propositioning cops for oral sex, like Giuliani's Florida surrogates, so it's no big deal.

Posted by: lampwick on December 29, 2007 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

"These people are very, very dedicated and they're also very smart, in their own way. We need to keep the feet to the fire and keep pressing these people until we defeat or chase them back to their caves -- or in other words get rid of them."

The sad thing is that, in a way, he is correct. These people (meaning religious nutcases of ALL stripes) will be the death of the human race and do deserve to be gotten rid of.
But that's not what we will get --- what we will get, instead, is millions of people dying over the question of whether a magical big man in the sky speaks English, Hebrew or Arabic.

Posted by: Maynard Handley on December 29, 2007 at 12:45 PM | PERMALINK

If you need to replace "Muslim" with anything in order to understand the import of Deady's words, you have some serious problems.

Posted by: Disputo on December 29, 2007 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

It was only a matter of time before someone well-placed actually articulated the desires of millions of USAmericans to exterminate the Muslim hoards.

Because the Crusades worked out so very well...

Working on the science side of medicine, I know a LOT of Muslims, most of who immigrated from the Middle East and south Asia. They are as appalled by the extremists who have coopted their faith as I am by the likes of Barruch Goldstein and Ygal Amir, or Christians are by Jim Jones and David Koresh.

I know a LOT of Muslims, personally and professionally. And to a person, every one of them is of this mindset.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

"The sad thing is that, in a way, he is correct. These people (meaning religious nutcases of ALL stripes) will be the death of the human race and do deserve to be gotten rid of."

Is it just me, or do a lot of others find this statement really disturbing too?

Posted by: Barry on December 29, 2007 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINK

Welcome to the New Republicans. Ignorant and proud of it. Full of hate and proud of it. Wow, they've come a long way from just being critics of political correctness.

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on December 29, 2007 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

"He's got I believe the knowledge and the judgment to attack one of the most difficult problems in current history and that is the rise of the Muslims Jews, and make no mistake about it, this hasn't happened for a thousand years. These people are very, very dedicated and they're also very smart, in their own way. We need to keep the feet to the fire and keep pressing these people until we defeat or chase them back to their caves -- or in other words get rid of them."


"I most assuredly do. I've been very concerned about this Muslim Jew thing for quite awhile. The average American German does not know beans about what the Muslims Jews are about. I am talking about the Muslims Jews in general. I don't subscribe to the principle that there are good Muslims Jews and bad Muslims Jews. They're all Muslims Jews."


Fixed for use in 1930s Germany.

Posted by: calipygian on December 29, 2007 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

I think the next-to-last line in Steve's post should read "wasn't," not "was."

Posted by: awrbb on December 29, 2007 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Giuliani is the front man for the neo-con/Iraeli crowd and you can expect more statements like this out of the Giuliani camp. He is a total fraud and lacks experience and integrity. He lacks judgment as well. I hope Americans see through his PR machine.

Posted by: allie on December 29, 2007 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

Frank Lobo above is advocating my death and the deaths of my family. Nice guy.

Posted by: Mazurka on December 29, 2007 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

Damn, can't you satirize anything anymore? I put up my last post to hi-lite the idiocy and I see Frank Dodo beat me to it!

Is America really in a post-satire age now?

Posted by: calipygian on December 29, 2007 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

You might read this piece before you get too enthusiastic about Muslim attitudes.

Thank you Mike K for posting a link to a poll whose very title is "Muslims in Europe: Economic Worries Top Concerns About Religious and Cultural Identity."

Turns out that just like us, Muslims in general are more concerned with their economic well-being than their cultural identity after all.

Here's another Christian/Muslim similarity:

(CNN) -- Most Christians are more likely to describe themselves as Christian first and American second, according to a new CNN poll examining religious views in the United States.

A new poll finds that Christian respondents would describe themselves as "Christian" before "American."

The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll found that of the 750 Christians in the survey, 59 percent identify themselves first by their faith, then as Americans, while 36 percent described themselves in the reverse.

CNN's findings are not that different from those in a recent Pew Research Center poll on Muslim-American attitudes. In that poll, 47 percent of Muslims in America say they are Muslim first, American second. Younger Muslims were especially likely to feel that way: 60 percent of them responded they were Muslim first.

Uh oh -- should I be worried about all those "Christian First-ers"? What sort of threat do you suppose they pose to our democracy?

Or is it just that observantly religious individuals in general find their faith, which deals with their eternal identity, more fundamental and more important than their national identity?

Posted by: trex on December 29, 2007 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

I think "Muslims" here is a kind of shorthand

Mexicans
Unitarians
Socialists
Liberals
Internet Sex Merchants
Schoolteachers.

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on December 29, 2007 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Man, if it takes THIS long for Guiliani to get rid of this guy...

FWIW, in Arabic neither "Islam" nor "Muslim" are proper nouns. That is, the words read for what they mean, rather than the way "Unitarian" or Congregationalism" are read in English.

"Islam" simply means "obedience to the will of God." And "Muslim" just means "those who obey God."

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 29, 2007 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

"The sad thing is that, in a way, he is correct. These people (meaning religious nutcases of ALL stripes) will be the death of the human race and do deserve to be gotten rid of."

Is it just me, or do a lot of others find this statement really disturbing too?

Nope...

We have arrived at a point where we as a species would be better off without religion at all.

That hasn't always been true, but it is now. There used to be a compact wherein religion would keep its bullshit out of the the sphere of public governance and they were in turn free to subject their own children to their hodoo-voodo and roll around in the aisles and play with snakes or whatever.

But they broke that compact, and so there is no obligation for reasonable people to put up with them anymore.

Bring on Lions vs Christians half time show and watch these assholes jump the Jebus ship like a white-house aid in 08.

Posted by: SnarkyShark on December 29, 2007 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

It's a good thing this guy didn't say anything about raising taxes or this may have actually hurt Rudy's campaign.

The republican primaries are so batshit insane it is almost funny (if it weren't so scary).

Posted by: bwaage on December 29, 2007 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

Unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans who agree with this kind of racist BS. Although I doubt that "a MAJORITY" supports this kind of mass murder; and if Frank Lobo thinks they support the murder of American Indians, today, he's absolutely 100% batshit crazy.

Posted by: Matt Stevens on December 29, 2007 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

Extremists exist in every religion.

Any religion that has idiots kill themselves or others for the cause shows the fallacy of religious zealotry.

I suspect that we have now entered a period in history where reason becomes second to superstition, where faith trumps fact.

Why stop at getting rid of Muslims?

Why not just flat out say all Demoncrats and Liberals are evil and should be castrated or killed?

For that matter, why not have Repugnacans represent all that is good in an evil world?

Heil ignoaristocrats everywhere! For they shall rule the earth and trash all other people.

Tolerance requires reasoned discourse. I fear our prez-nut campaign is fast losing both.

Posted by: Tom Nicholson on December 29, 2007 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

The Americanist is right, Muslim means "those who obey God." Fervent Alcoholics Anonymous members are technically "Muslim" because they surrender in the 12 steps to God.

A dozen years ago, my Lebanese Christian father and I were touring medieval Sidon, Lebanon, near our hometown. I wanted to see an ancient mosque, and since I was wearing a large shawl and modest clothing, I covered my hair and we went in. My dad however started taking pictures, which I thought was uncool; sure enough somebody began saying "are they Muslims? They're not Muslims!" and somebody else asked us to leave. As Dad was putting on his shoes, a crowd gathered around us. IT started looking a little dicey. People looked mad.

A man stepped up to my dad and asked again, as if on behalf of the crowd: but are you Muslim?

My dad quoted Koran to him - loose translation: "All those who believe in One God are Muslims." Everybody started laughing and the tension broke - the questioner said, fine, fine, but you have to leave now, which we did.

"All those who believe in One God are Muslims." Just remember that.

Posted by: Leila on December 29, 2007 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Thank you for sharing that, Leila. By the way - did you see my Christmas present to you? ;)

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

and if Frank Lobo thinks they support the murder of American Indians, today, he's absolutely 100% batshit crazy.

We are obviously dealing with someone of limited higher cortical function here. The "If Frank Lobo thinks" part is an obvious fallacy. And there is no qualifier needed for the he's absolutely 100% batshit crazy. part of your post. :)

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 2:43 PM | PERMALINK

I think that the comments are by themselves are not as disturbing as the calculation that must have gone on in the Rudy campaign to make such statements as surely there is a large number of potential voters in the primaries to whom such sentiments will be quite appealing.

The song and dance will of course be that this person's statements were unauthorized and do not reflect the thinking of the campaign, blah blah blah. The size of the audience for such shenanigans that will eat it all up is not that insignificant.

Posted by: gregor on December 29, 2007 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Well, have mouth, will stupid.

I can remember my parents being concerned with who I hung out with when I was younger. It was something along the lines of, "you are who you hang with."

This speaks volumes about Rude-E, though it really can't come as much of a surprise.

Posted by: E Henry Thripshaw on December 29, 2007 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

I know that Giuliani is sinking under the weight of his own crapulence at this point, so it wold be a waste of money, but, why aren't the Dems making this latest video into and issue ad?

Seriously.

In the YouTube age, if I were a candidate, I'd have dozens of ads of my opponents blatant mistakes like this locked, loaded and ready to fire.

As soon as candidate XXX got nominated, they'd be hitting the airwaves like bad news about Brittany.

They would be as inescapable as a Chevy ad during the superbowl.

By the time the next election rolled around, it would be ingrained in the publics mind:

Conservative = bad.

Posted by: TB on December 29, 2007 at 3:22 PM | PERMALINK

gregor is right. But expect more of Rudy's pandering to the lowest, base instincts of the American people. He is the frontman for the Neo-cons/Israeli lobby set and his best friend would be some kind of attack on America. Bush won in 2004 by manaufacturing fear. Rudy is trying to adopt that mantle. "keep 'em scared and keep 'em stupid." It worked in 2004.

Posted by: allie on December 29, 2007 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

So who is kookier/more intemperate, Ghoulli and crew together or the Nut-I-be all by himself? I guess it depends on what matters to/horrifies you most, political or religious based crankery. (but Nut-I-bee did just make that gaffe about how many Pakistanis are crossing our border ...)

Posted by: Neil B. on December 29, 2007 at 3:36 PM | PERMALINK

Muslims are not to popular with any American politician I would imagine.

Posted by: Matt on December 29, 2007 at 3:37 PM | PERMALINK
the Giuliani campaign said it would ask Deady to resign "if these quotes are accurate."

Well, that makes sense. After all, Mr. Deady's comments may have been transcribed incorrectly to freakin' videotape!!!

Where the hell is Sam Kinison when we really need him?

Posted by: Quaker in a Basement on December 29, 2007 at 3:58 PM | PERMALINK

"You might read this piece before you get too enthusiastic about Muslim attitudes.

Thank you Mike K for posting a link to a poll whose very title is "Muslims in Europe: Economic Worries Top Concerns About Religious and Cultural Identity."

I wonder if you noticed that your keepers deleted my comment but not your reply. Welcome to 1984.

If you read the linked piece, not from a "right wing" source, you noticed the very low identification with national citizenship of Muslims.

Posted by: Mike K on December 29, 2007 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

I know a LOT of Muslims, personally and professionally. And to a person, every one of them is of this mindset.
Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.)

They are sailing into a strong gale.

According to the President of Muslims Against Sharia (Khalim Massoud) 20% of Muslims want him beheaded.

I wonder if you noticed that your keepers deleted my comment but not your reply. Welcome to 1984.
Posted by: Mike K

No kidding.

Posted by: SJRSM on December 29, 2007 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

Whether or not Rudy fires this particular babooze is really irrelevant. The ignorant masses who constitute his following will simply demand more of the same, and as long as they do, the clowns will keep answering the bell. These clueless fuckers have no capacity to appreciate the irony in the fact that Osama bin Laden can apparently find safe haven in Pakistan, but Benazir Bhutto could not.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii, in New Orleans with the Warriors on December 29, 2007 at 4:23 PM | PERMALINK

Point taken, BGRS. :)

Posted by: Matt Stevens on December 29, 2007 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

Aw, the poor trolls feel oppressed because the mean administrator is deleting their bigoted comments!

Get over yourselves. You're free to post your excreta on your own websites, and I'm sure Powerline would love to hear from you.

Posted by: Matt Stevens on December 29, 2007 at 4:31 PM | PERMALINK
It reminds me of Andrew Jackson's saying… Mazurka at 12:37 PM

That's nasty, but it wasn't Andrew Jackson who said it

Posted by: Mike on December 29, 2007 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK

I wonder if you noticed that your keepers deleted my comment but not your reply. Welcome to 1984.

How easily wounded you are! Again, I feel compelled to remind the self-important MikeK that censorship is a state function and WaMo is a private entity. World of difference. But you know that. You just rush toward feeling aggrieved as if it validates your existence and palliates the nurses mocking you behind your back.

They are sailing into a strong gale.

All the more reason for the rational among us to offer support to moderate Muslims.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

All the more reason for the rational among us to offer support to moderate Muslims.
Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.)

The sad thing is, support from the "infidels" is generally toxic. The worst of all things is for non-muslims to suggest to muslims how they should behave. We're sidelined to a large extent from this one.

Posted by: SJRSM on December 29, 2007 at 4:42 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K: "If you read the linked piece, not from a 'right wing' source, you noticed the very low identification with national citizenship of Muslims."

Right now, the militant xenophobia exhibited by our own country's radical right -- as illustrated by such nonsensical statements as yours -- worries me far more than the Muslims.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii, in New Orleans with the Warriors on December 29, 2007 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

I wonder if Dead(l)y is a direct descendant of this guy?

Mike - it is a tenuous spot. I support the moderate Muslims I know by pushing back against idiots like Frank Lobo and John Deady.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 4:57 PM | PERMALINK

And after being fired from the Giuliani campaign, he'll be hired by Fox Noise as a regular commentator.

Posted by: Speed on December 29, 2007 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

The unfortunate fact is we have a significant chunk of the public who believes that we are entering into the final violent conflict between the two branches of Abrahamic religion. Such beliefs, if they become widespread enough can become self fullfilling prophecy. Just this week I was asked which side I was on!

Posted by: bigTom on December 29, 2007 at 5:02 PM | PERMALINK

Blue Girl - y es I did see it, thank you so much! I replied in comments on my site - should have answered you by email, so sorry. I am overwhelmed... and now I have a draft post in which I list a few blogs to tap, and muse a little on the three principles I'm supposed to define... haven't finished the post yet. Ok, I will, but maybe later this weekend.

Thank you again... I am so honored. I feel a responsibility to get my blog response right - it's not just thank you, thank you, one must think and choose carefully.

Posted by: Leila on December 29, 2007 at 5:02 PM | PERMALINK

Life is a Monty Python skit.

Stockbroker (JOHN) Well speaking as a member of the Stock Exchange I would suck their brains out with a straw, sell the widows and orphans and go into South American Zinc.

Man (TERRY J) Yeh I'd, er, stuff sparrows down their throats, er, until the beaks stuck out through the, er, stomach walls.

Porter (TERRY J) I'd split their nostrils open with a boat hook, I think.

Man (GRAHAM) Well I mean, they can't help it, can they? But, er, there's nothing you can do about it. So er, I'd kill 'em.

Posted by: Speed on December 29, 2007 at 5:11 PM | PERMALINK

Speed: You appreciate the Python boys, you will love this offering by Pale Rider.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

Deady sounds like my barber. This morning, my right-wing barber opined that he thinks the answer to the Bhutto assassination is the utter and complete nuclear obliteration of the entire country of Pakistan. He asserted that "if you have a rat problem, you don't kill one or two of them, you kill them all".

I didn't bother pointing out that human beings aren't rats or that genocide usually never solves too many problems, in the long run.

Nuance is lost on the mentally defective...

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on December 29, 2007 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

1000 years? What an idiot.

The Ottoman Turks were the strongest power until the death of Suleyman I. That's 450 years ago.

Posted by: MNPundit on December 29, 2007 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

The unfortunate fact is we have a significant chunk of the public who believes that we are entering into the final violent conflict between the two branches of Abrahamic religion. -bigTom

Yes, and the media are the ones to blame for most of that. There are so many empty cable channels to fill with crap, nobody cares anymore what they fill it with. After 9/11, what were once reasonably decent channels (I'm thinking the Discovery Channel™ in particular here-but they're not the only ones by any means) started marketing all of this 24/7 end-times !paranoia! What did Nostradamus predict? Could that particular Bible phrase be about nuclear weapons! Well, Dr.X at so-and-so Bible U. sure as heck thinks so!

The cable media has given these people this enormous megaphone and increased their influence by several orders of magnitude. There's always *something* that's the latest sure-fire sign. The first prediction I heard was from a High School Science teacher in 1974 that in 1982 when the planets all lined up THAT's when it was going to happen...

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on December 29, 2007 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

I think SJRSM is wrong. I think we should ALL speak out.

I've been arguing for years that we (a/k/a the good guys) need a THEOLOGICAL strategy to deal with Muslim terrorism, the way we had an ideological strategy to deal with militant communism. Folks like Vaclav Havel have said as clearly as they could that the ideological example of the West -- freedom, jazz, prosperity -- was worth as much or more than all those weapons in bringing about the collapse of the Iron Curtain.

(That's one reason Bhutto's assassination is so chilling. Pakistan has had a female leader, after akk; so has Turkey -- but not us.)

Mike K raises a legit question, he just doesn't understand it, nor the answer: how is it POSSIBLE that anyone can be a Muslim -- or a Catholic, for that matter -- and also a patriotic citizen of any secular state? (Cue my obligatory explanation of the Americanist heresy: if anybody wants to know, ask.)

Tariq Ramadan has one answer. Ramadan's thinking is important (though the man desperately needs an editor, at least in English), but his family is also key: his grandfather Hassan al Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood around 1920, which reconnected Islam with Arab nationalism. (The relationship between Islam and Arab nationalism had been sorta problematic under the Ottomans.)

Ramadan's Notion is that it is possible to be BOTH a European (he's a Swiss citizen)and a Muslim because of his understanding of the Koran -- but he's sorta coy about the crazier stuff, which he rationalizes by noting that his audience (young alienated Muslims) wants him to be more Muslim than European. (If anybody thinks I wrong him by saying this, say so.)

But then there's Hiryan Ali, the former member of the Dutch Parliament who's had death threats because she is that worst of all things Muslim, an apostate: she's left the faith, and condemns it in strong terms. (She also disses Ramadan.)

So SJRSM is wrong, precisely cuz Leila is right: MOST people in the world are small-m muslims, and you can't beat something with nothing.

This Giuiliani guy has got to go from our national stage (so does Rudy), but that doesn't mean the underlying debate can or should be ignored.

That's cuz Donald from Hawaii is also wrong, or at least his concern is misplaced: I'm not very worried that Bill Kristol is gonna sneak a suitcase nuke into an AEI bafflegab session.

But I AM worried the suicide cult that characterizes Muslim terrorism has become a kind of morphing into Moloch thing. Somebody pointed out that nobody forced the ancients to throw their living babies into the fire; Moloch wasn't imposed by an invader. It simply developed by a sorta can-you-top-this, holier than thou demonstrated by sacrifice perversion: this guy sacrificed a tenth of his crops, that guy gave up his home, so finally parents gave up a kid.

THAT is the "dictatorship of the proletariat led by the Marxist vanguard" we are facing now: it will be a good thing when an American president reminds Indonesians and Saudis alike that "We are all Muslims," the way JFK said: "Ich bin ein Berliner."

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 29, 2007 at 5:36 PM | PERMALINK

Oh boy, it's another weekend, and that abject fucking loser The Americanist Donnelly still can't find a date or find anything better to do with his fading time.

Proving his complete stupidity he starts out by saying I've been arguing for years that we (a/k/a the good guys) need a THEOLOGICAL strategy to deal with Muslim terrorism

Ah, yes that will solve the problem. Let's do the "my god is better than your god" thing. Works everytime.

You're a real dumbfuck, Donnelly.

Posted by: Jorge on December 29, 2007 at 5:42 PM | PERMALINK

More comedy from Americanasshole

But I AM worried the suicide cult that characterizes Muslim terrorism has become a kind of morphing into Moloch thing

The GOP thanks you for your bedwetting, in fact they get elected on such fear.

Posted by: Jorge on December 29, 2007 at 5:43 PM | PERMALINK

@ Conservative Deflator:

"This morning, my right-wing barber opined that he thinks the answer to the Bhutto assassination is the utter and complete nuclear obliteration of the entire country of Pakistan."

And you let this man get behind you with a razor in his hand?

Tip: Go see Sweeney Todd--and change barbers.

Posted by: Quaker in a Basement on December 29, 2007 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

Blue Girl - that was too funny.

I see you're from Missouri; I have relatives there - all Bible-thumpers, but very nice folks anyway. I guess you're all enduring ice storms right now.

Posted by: Speed on December 29, 2007 at 6:02 PM | PERMALINK

SO tell me again why the current GOP is freeing the Muslims and rebuilding their infrastructure with hundred of billions of our tax dollars?

Posted by: Xisithrus on December 29, 2007 at 6:07 PM | PERMALINK

Deady has resigned, wonder if his job was to "get the message out" - THEN be be thrown under the bus?
Taking one for the team - (of course he may just be an idiot too)!

Posted by: jay boilswater on December 29, 2007 at 6:10 PM | PERMALINK

Not exactly a surprise that Jorge doesn't get it (though it's sorta typical of the progressive anti-religion reflex): "Let's do the "my god is better than your god" thing."

Um, no.

For one thing, the Koran points out: "There is no coercion in religion." It is a mark of respect to let folks know that you've bothered to learn about 'em.

Evidently Jorge doesn't believe in respecting others. Anybody surprised?

For another, there really IS a long history of Islam dealing with civics. It also helps to show folks that you know their history -- that, in fact, their history is OUR history. The Ottomans were the world's most successful multi-ethnic, multi-religious society... before the USA.

And finally, we have great examples to point to: Jamil Diab, the Palestinian refugee who taught W. Deen Muhammad (Elijah Muhammad's son and chosen successor, leader of the largest mass conversion in American history) to love the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

There are a LOT of Muslims -- AMERICAN Muslims -- who recognize that this is the best country on earth in which to BE a Muslim, the Saudi satrapy included: their patriotism definitely does NOT say to Muslims "my God is better than your God".

But 'course, understanding that would require progressives to get past their anti-religion jones, huh?

And as a kind of addiction, that's much more important to Jorge than anything else.

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 29, 2007 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

But 'course, understanding that would require progressives to get past their anti-religion jones, huh?

Please,,,I am progressive and religious.

Besides you forget about the Hagees, the Norths, the Rushdoony's, the Roberstons that think war in the middle east, by defeating Allah, will bring about the Apocalypse, Jesus, God and save them for starting wars of religion.

Nice try TA.

Posted by: Xisithrus on December 29, 2007 at 6:29 PM | PERMALINK

I always say. This is a Christian Nation and it was founded on Christian Principles, Not on Islamic Principles. -Chuck

When did Jesus get a jet plane and bombs?

Posted by: Xisithrus on December 29, 2007 at 6:33 PM | PERMALINK

Chuck is exactly the kind of so-called human being our species throws out there once in a while that geneticist James Gorman had in mind when he said And fruit flies, well, I never met a fruit fly that I was ashamed to share genes with,
and I certainly can’t say that about human beings.

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State (aka G.C.) on December 29, 2007 at 6:49 PM | PERMALINK

Q in a B:

I would, but he gives good haircuts!

TCD

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on December 29, 2007 at 7:50 PM | PERMALINK

Sweeny Todd is not playing my area. The theater owner could not get a distribution deal because they wanted too much money.

Sweeney Todd = Extortion.

Posted by: MNPundit on December 29, 2007 at 8:21 PM | PERMALINK

Bill Kristol is not gonna sneak a suitcase nuke into an AEI bafflegab session

More's the pity.

Posted by: trex on December 29, 2007 at 9:55 PM | PERMALINK

For one thing, the Koran points out: "There is no coercion in religion." It is a mark of respect to let folks know that you've bothered to learn about 'em.
The Koran is like the bible in that it is not consistent. You can pretty much pick your position and find a passage to support it. Plus, it is not "yours" to cherry-pick from...Muslims in general hate getting preached to by outsiders (as do all sorts of groups).

I agree most are small-m muslims, but then our revolution was driven by a pretty small minority too. Big changes are brought about by small but passionate (fanatical?) groups.

Posted by: SJRSM on December 29, 2007 at 10:20 PM | PERMALINK

A cascading series of potential lessons for the knuckleheads among us:

1) Xisithrus writes: "I am progressive and religious."

So speak up more when folks 'round here dis ALL religions, as in Jorge's "my god is better than your god", or Maynard's "millions of people dying over the question of whether a magical big man in the sky speaks English, Hebrew or Arabic..." because THAT is the typically progressive anti-religion reflex.

2) TCD points out that he goes to his barber for the way the guy cuts hair, not his political opinions*. No kidding? It is a wonder that this has to be pointed out to folks. But then,

3) MNPundit doesn't like capitalism cuz he figures it is extortion: "The theater owner could not get a distribution deal because they wanted too much money."

Ain't it more accurate that he wouldn't pay the market rate? You don't have a right to have a movie delivered to a theater that's convenient to you at whatever rate the theater OWNER wants to pay, yanno: them what sells set the price.

As (often) noted, what folks object to is generally less revealing than what they let pass without remark, as something 'everybody knows'.

*I used to go to a local barber who was like a sports bar -- the local football team everywhere, autographs on the wall. He was a Navy vet, had that poster of the guy in a suit leaning up against the Vietnam Memorial with the ghostly image of the grunts looking back at him. Not a bad guy, I liked his haircuts, and I brought my son there for his first few when the boy was little. He had another barber there, foreign-born, who was cutting my hair one day when the boy wasn't there. Cuz it was a sports place, I mentioned Michael Jordan, who was getting his fifth or sixth NBA ring that year. The guy just went off on how he wouldn't waste his time watching, er, guys like Jordan run around in shorts.

I never brought my son there again.

In one of those weird little compromises ya make, I did get my own hair cut there once or twice after that -- and it turned out, the other barber was dying when he went off on what he thought of the NBA. Cancer got him, and the Navy vet closed the place.


Posted by: theAmericanist on December 29, 2007 at 10:29 PM | PERMALINK

"preached to by outsiders " That's the beauty of actually learning what "muslim" means, as Leila pointed out upthread.

I forget who wrote the doggerel to urge that when somebody draws a small circle to keep you out, just draw a bigger one to bring them in.

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 29, 2007 at 10:31 PM | PERMALINK

I think that the statement from the Rudy campaign is getting the derision it so richly deserves, but let us not go overboard here trying to put Islam on a pedestal.

Islam, after all, is a religion, and all well meaning rational beings must deplore the zeal with so many people follow religions as these zealots contribute so much to the detriment of the human beings that these ideologies are supposed to serve.

Posted by: gregor on December 29, 2007 at 10:54 PM | PERMALINK

ARE religions "ideologies [that] are supposed to serve" human beings?

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 29, 2007 at 11:28 PM | PERMALINK

But of course! Fascism is rather emasculated without recourse to militant racism propped up by sweepingly generalized demonization. There cannot be a unifying rallying cry of "Us and Them" without conjuring up a "them", however fanciful!

Giuliani and associates are clearly died-in-the-wool Fascists, merely following the standard script.

On a related note, here's a remarkably savvy, "Deep Politics" analysis of Pakistan's present turmoil and other geopolitical machinations we've only been vaguely informed of over the past several years:

Anglo-American Ambitions behind the Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and the Destabilization of Pakistan
By Larry Chin [Global Research]
.

Posted by: Poilu on December 30, 2007 at 7:32 AM | PERMALINK

Frank Lobo above is advocating my death and the deaths of my family.

Seems pretty clear to me that the only good Frank Lobo would be a dead Frank Lobo.

Regarding the conpicuous degeneracy of modern "Republicans", when do we stop giving them the titular "benefit of the doubt" and just label them consistently (and appropriately) as NeoConNazis?

Any remaining distinctions are FAR from obvious to me.
.

Posted by: Poilu on December 30, 2007 at 7:49 AM | PERMALINK

Welcome to the New Republicans. Ignorant and proud of it. Full of hate and proud of it. Wow, they've come a long way from just being critics of political correctness.

Doc: SO true! As Jon Perr quite eloquently put it a while ago, the GOP is now merely The Party of Hate.
.

Posted by: Poilu on December 30, 2007 at 8:06 AM | PERMALINK

"How easily wounded you are! Again, I feel compelled to remind the self-important MikeK that censorship is a state function and WaMo is a private entity. World of difference. But you know that. You just rush toward feeling aggrieved as if it validates your existence and palliates the nurses mocking you behind your back."--Blue Girl, Red State

Blue Girl, aside from the small impediments that I'm gay and you've got a husband--

Will you marry me?

Posted by: jprichva on December 30, 2007 at 8:24 AM | PERMALINK

A cascading series of potential lessons for the knuckleheads among us ...

Well, Americanist, we know that you assuredly constitute one of the members of said category.

Who, supposedly, are the "rest"?
.

Posted by: Poilu on December 30, 2007 at 8:24 AM | PERMALINK

"It was only a matter of time before someone well-placed actually articulated the desires of millions of USAmericans to exterminate the Muslim hoards."

Actually, we want steal their 'hoards'-- of oil, mostly. Then decimate their hordes. Because hordes are inherently evil. Ever been to Disney World?

Posted by: Kenji on December 30, 2007 at 8:30 AM | PERMALINK

Hmm... someone enlighten me: has Poilu ever said ANYTHING useful? It has escaped my notice.

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 30, 2007 at 10:30 AM | PERMALINK
"Mr. Deady offered his resignation from his volunteer position in the campaign and I accepted his resignation," Giuliani New Hampshire Chairman Wayne Semprini said in a statement.

Source (warning, link to fox)

Posted by: Peter on December 30, 2007 at 10:35 AM | PERMALINK

Deady's comments about Muslims sound like what Joseph Goebbels said about Jews:

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb1.htm

Posted by: Lee on December 30, 2007 at 3:18 PM | PERMALINK

Amerikanist: So sorry to hear that you apparently consider my various postings here "useless". Still, I suppose that's to be expected from a commentator who ostensibly believes he long ago "cornered the market on knowledge".

While any such "omnscience" on your part is far from evident to me, I'm not at all suprised to hear that my "usefulness" has managed to escape your attention. It's obviously just one of the many things likely to "get past you" while you're feverishly engaged in disseminating unsubstantiated, extemporaneous postulations and prescribing behavior for others.

Nevertheless, my question was an entirely valid one, since your M.O. so frequently consists of utterly non-specific derisive commentary, directed (often in the thrid person, as above) at "everyone" and no one simultaneously.

You would perhaps seem somewhat less an obnoxious boor and pseudo-know-it-all if you actually addressed your would-be "rebuttals" to those in particular with whom you disagree, rather than retreating to the presumed "sanctity" of a self-aggrandizing bully pulpit and preaching "to the masses", as it were.

I sincerely hope the above candid advice is "useful" to you.
.

Posted by: Poilu on December 31, 2007 at 8:13 AM | PERMALINK

Was that supposed to be your example? I couldn't tell.

I note nobody else jumped up to offer any; instances of your usefulness seem sorta hard to find.

Posted by: theAmericanist on December 31, 2007 at 11:55 AM | PERMALINK

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