Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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March 10, 2008
By: Kevin Drum

ELIOT SPITZER....The New York Times reports that Eliot Spitzer has been "linked" to an upscale prostitution ring. Spitzer is on CNN right now fessing up to behavior that "violates my obligations to my family" and says he now needs to take some time to regain his family's trust. He took no questions from the gathered reporters.

As with David Vitter and Larry Craig, my official position is: who cares. This stuff shouldn't be illegal in the first place and I don't care what these guys do in their private time. Needless to say, though, this is not a majority opinion, and the fact that Spitzer has busted prostitution rings in his previous career brings the usual hypocrisy charges into play too. I'd put his survival odds at less than 10%.

Kevin Drum 3:27 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (194)

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Comments

This is all Inkblot's fault!

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 3:32 PM | PERMALINK

good riddance

say, is David Vitter still a senator ? yes? oh. i see.

Posted by: cleek on March 10, 2008 at 3:36 PM | PERMALINK

This shouldn't be illegal in the first place and I don't care what these guys do in their private time.

Uh, yes it should be illegal. Yes, it is a big deal when someone with a security clearance is caught doing this sort of thing--it exposes them to the possibility of blackmail.

Spitzer shouldn't be given any different treatment than we've given Vitter or Craig or any of the others who have been caught doing this shit--if your judgement is that impaired, get a job in the private sector and have a ball. But don't take a job where you have access to classified material, a security clearance, the public money, or the ability to have someone investigated or indicted.

As governor, he's given access to sensitive Homeland Security information--I definitely do not want MY governor to be in a position where he can be blackmailed.

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 3:37 PM | PERMALINK

I tend to agree that what Spitzer seems to be accused of (and what he seems to be confessing to) shouldn't matter. But Spitzer is in a unique position, fighting an extremely sclerotic and (bipartisanly) corrupt political machine in Albany. Making himself into a punchline would compromise his ability to continue in that vein to the point that I think he should resign (and I say this as a constituent of Spitzer's and long-term fan of his, too).

Posted by: honestpartisan on March 10, 2008 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Do you think it 90% likely he will be forced from office before his term is concluded? Or is that you think he has won his last election?

Posted by: Yancey Ward on March 10, 2008 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

getting nailed in something like this is seriously stupid. and scummy. good riddance.

Posted by: sc on March 10, 2008 at 3:39 PM | PERMALINK

I live in Nevada and agree that prostitution should be legal. But Spitzer betrayed the very laws he was elected to uphold, and he has made a career out of going after ethical lapses no matter where they occur. If he can be hypocritical about prostitution, he can be hypocritical about anything. I've always respected Spitzer and it will be sad to see him go, but he did this to himself.

Craig, by the way, is a different issue entirely, since the crimes charged against him are arguably unconstitutional. (I'm with the ACLU on that one.) But the hit to his reputation is nevertheless fair.

Posted by: crazymonk on March 10, 2008 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

Pale Rider: Uh, yes it should be illegal ... it exposes them to the possibility of blackmail.

But if it's not illegal, then the potential for blackmail isn't there. That same circular reasoning has been used to ban gays from the military and other "sensitive" occupations.

But you're quite right that while it is illegal, Spitzer shouldn't get preferential treatment.

Posted by: thersites on March 10, 2008 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

Wait! What Craig did shouldn't be illegal? No conflating, please. There is a big difference between private/public behavior. What Craig pleaded to was behavior in public.

Posted by: Mike on March 10, 2008 at 3:42 PM | PERMALINK

The hypocrisy charge is the big one here, same as it is with social conservatives who don't practice what they preach. Spitzer should probably step down.

Posted by: Quinn on March 10, 2008 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin wrote:

. . . fact that Spitzer has busted prostitution rings in his previous career brings the usual hypocrisy charges into play too.

I don't think so, or at least hypocrisy doesn't come up in the way you're suggesting. As a prosecutor, it was expected of Spitzer to bust prostitution rings and it's not as if he (like the Republicans) touts his commitment to sexual morality, over that of his political opponents, in order to get elected. He may be a hypocrite if, as is presumable, he tells his wife he's faithful to her, and he tells people that they should stay faithful to theor spouses, etc. But it doesn't really have anything to do with his politics.

I chalk it up as an (embarassing) personal failing, but as fair as what the typical cheating scandal is like, to me this one is more like personal business and less appropriate as political news or a political criticism of him. You can't even call it a double-standard for Republicans, because it's the Republicans who make it an issue for themselves by claiming to have an iron-clad commitment to pbserving these kinds of taboos.

Posted by: Swan on March 10, 2008 at 3:44 PM | PERMALINK

I chalk it up as an (embarassing) personal failing, but as fair as what the typical cheating scandal is like,

Oops, I meant "as far as" not "as fair as."

Posted by: Swan on March 10, 2008 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, I'll save my snickering at another Democrat being caught in a sex scandal for another day. But I will point out that Spitzer's successor will be David Patterson, an African American. Since Spitzer was a Hillary supporting superdelegate, then his resignation will result in David Patterson being the new superdelegate instead of him. And since Patterson is an African American, he will certainly support Obama. So one more vote for Obama meaning Hillary's even losing bigger in the delegate count. Go Obama.

Posted by: Al on March 10, 2008 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

But if it's not illegal, then the potential for blackmail isn't there.

It's got nothing to do with the illegality--it's got everything to do with exposing a public official for having used the services of a high-end escort service.

I'm not talking about morality or legality--this is purely a matter of security clearances and access to classified information. You DO NOT want people who have access to that material to be dilly dallying with hookers--it sets them up for all kinds of trouble.

Like I said--if you want to do that sort of thing, get out of public life and go into the private sector and have ass at it. But DO NOT try to tell me that an elected official who has access to classified material and can have people investigated and indicted and who has access to public funds should be engaging in this behavior. It sets an extremely bad precedent and we're only asking for trouble if we take the quasi-libertarian view that it's a victimless crime.

Cue the people who will tell you prostitution is NOT a victimless crime--and have a listen to what they have to say.

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 3:46 PM | PERMALINK

I used to work for him. not closely.

the difference is that Spitzer's entire persona and campaign was predicated upon him being the second coming of Eliot Ness. I agree that prostitution should be legal. but it's not. a governor is supposed to obey the law. so, yes, it is a pretty darn serious breach of public trust...and removes the entire raison d'etre of his political life. he's fucked.

Posted by: well on March 10, 2008 at 3:46 PM | PERMALINK

People can be blackmailed because they are having an affair, even if the affair itself doesn't break any laws.

Posted by: Joe Buck on March 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM | PERMALINK

Hypocrisy doesn't stick here-

It's not as if Spitzer's DA office had a policy of not prosecuting prostitution, and then he came along and said "This is a scourge on humanity-- let's wipe it out" and then began a new endeavor of prosecuting prostitution.

Posted by: Swan on March 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM | PERMALINK

Here in New York State, where so many of my frieds are Democrats and voted for Spitzer, the outrage is quite palpable. And that's among Democrats. What really did him in is his self-righteous arrogance, the Smartest Man In The Room and I Will Rub Your Nose In It syndrome. Even before this career-ending scandal, many of us who had supported him were becoming disheartened. He should resign sooner rather than later.

Posted by: MaxGowan on March 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM | PERMALINK

Upscale prostitution cost him $5500/hour. Why wouldn't he fly to Vegas and get him some legal prostitution at that cost?

Posted by: tom.a on March 10, 2008 at 3:53 PM | PERMALINK

Cue the people who will tell you prostitution is NOT a victimless crime

Point taken. I could split hairs, but I choose not to stroll into that swamp.

Posted by: thersites on March 10, 2008 at 3:53 PM | PERMALINK

Hypocrisy doesn't stick here-It's not as if Spitzer's DA office had a policy of not prosecuting prostitution, and then he came along and said "This is a scourge on humanity-- let's wipe it out" and then began a new endeavor of prosecuting prostitution.

You are so fucking idiotic it has to be diagnosable. It's like words just fly out of your mouth in random order and you hasten to get it all down in type to share with us.

Posted by: stfu on March 10, 2008 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

"getting nailed in something like this is seriously stupid. and scummy."

I bet the woman who got $5500 an hour would disagree with the stupid part, at least.

Posted by: Joe on March 10, 2008 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

In Spitzers defence-atleast it was with adult women.

Posted by: Gandalf on March 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe Spitzer was just doing research...

Posted by: Bob on March 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

Who cares what his taste for sex is.

Hypocrisy is another matter. He fails as a man that promises clean up in government and then goes his merry way acting like a juvenile in the face of his grown up commitments.

He has failed the trust of those who elected him. He has made his tenure untennable. His words are hot air that reeks of cynicism.

He is toast.

Posted by: piktor on March 10, 2008 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK

BS Kevin,

Immoral or not, this is a highly illegal act. Not one you want a high-level politician compromised by.

On the moral side, I highly doubt all of these "diamond" girls are there by their own will.

Posted by: SAO on March 10, 2008 at 3:58 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin: I think you're wrong that this is a "who cares?" situation. You may think it's stupid that prostitution is illegal, I think I do, but the fact remains that it is illegal. There's really no excuse for a Governor, and former Attorney General to deliberately engage in illegal behavior. If nothing else, it shows incredibly bad judgement. And I do think that simply obeying the law is kind of a minimum requirement for a state Governor.

Posted by: Paul Gottlieb on March 10, 2008 at 3:59 PM | PERMALINK

Market Rallies on Spitzer Downfall

Posted by: Bob O'Reilly on March 10, 2008 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

If David "Family Values" Vitter can get away with it, why can't Elliot "Prosecutor" Spitzer?

(I suspect the answer might have something to do with how differently the two similar events are covered.)

Posted by: Joe on March 10, 2008 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

I am a long-time supporter of legalizing prostitution, but if Spitzer starts using the "consenting adult" defense I am going to barf. As I recall, Dick Grasso's pay package was negotiated by consenting (and sophisticated) adults but that did not stop Spitzer from prosecuting him and grandstanding the case all the way to the governor's mansion.

Posted by: coyote on March 10, 2008 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

As Democrats, especially since Republicans are probably going to be using this to communicate "Look at what the Democrats are like!!" to their rank-and-file, I just don't think it's our role to exagerrate this thing or crack down too hard on this guy for it.

Prostitution and cheating on a spouse can both be very ugly, or can both be not too ugly; but at their least ugly, these activities can amount to (1) a person who is very arguably making or not making a bad decision, (2) committing a crime with a man by engaging in basically what would be a recreational activity if no money were changing hands, and (3) a man violating a relationship that is basically done with anyway.

I don't think I'm for legalizing prostitution, but I don't think it's our place to crack down on this guy as if he were the scum of the Earth until we know that there are facts involved that make this a really egregious case of what happened. For example, if Spitzer went around publicly talking about how rotten promiscuity is in his political speeches, this would make him a hypocrite, but (as far as I've heard, or expect to hear) he didn't.

tom.a wrote:

Upscale prostitution cost him $5500/hour.

Hearing about that kind of price for prositution has always mystified me. But I guess it must be you can expect more secrecy than trying to pick up women at a bar, plus the prostitutes aren't butt-ugly ones.

Posted by: Swan on March 10, 2008 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

Mike, I agree with the ACLU -- what Craig is protected under the 1st amendment:

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/122593.html

Posted by: crazymonk on March 10, 2008 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

What a darn shame. I really liked this guy. He was doing good things. No more, I guess.

How could anyone in his position think that he would get away with this? I bet he was being blackmailed.

Posted by: POed Lib on March 10, 2008 at 4:04 PM | PERMALINK

Vitter (who probably should have resigned) wasn't a government executive. he wasn't a governor specifically charged with enforcing a state's laws. neither had he ever personally prosecuted people for prostitution.

there's a difference between campaigning as Eliot Ness reincarnated and as Charlie Wilson (not that Vitter ran as Charlie Wilson...)

Posted by: well on March 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

$5500 an hour? 44 grand per day? Wow. I'm in the wrong racket.

Posted by: Orson on March 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Swan: Spitzer personally prosecuted three high-profile prosecution cases.

Posted by: well on March 10, 2008 at 4:06 PM | PERMALINK

I see that Al is here, contributing his Repukeliscum perspective about things.

Al, you're a moron. NY pols support Hillary. Black ones, white one, ones with their dicks in hos.

The superdelegate situation will not change.

Posted by: POed Lib on March 10, 2008 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

And since Patterson is an African American, he will certainly support Obama.

Paterson has endorsed Clinton.

Posted by: Creamy Goodness on March 10, 2008 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

OMG - as a new resident of NYC, what have I done leaving the land of Hollywood. First, it was the former mayor (Rudy) and that police chief of his. Now my governor. In fairness - we should make Spitzer serve out his term and then never let him run for a post higher than dog catching. Oh yea - we need to build him a dog house and his wife should make him sleep there.

Posted by: pgl on March 10, 2008 at 4:08 PM | PERMALINK

I too think this is pretty horrible and shocking. While I am up in the air about the legalization of prostitution (leaning towards supporting legalization), the fact that he put himself in a compromising position is about as bad a situation that someone whith his authority can do. I can't think of a way that Spitzer gets through his term as a sitting governor - and he sadly deserves to go.

Posted by: Mark on March 10, 2008 at 4:12 PM | PERMALINK

The New York Sun reports that the case against the prostitution ring is being handled by the Justice Department's public corruption section.

One wonders if the Bush administration's unmonitored wiretapping and surveillance programs got this investigation going.

Posted by: fidelio on March 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

Alas, a once shining star comes crashing to earth. At least Charlie Wilson was single. What's Spitzer's excuse (or Craig's, or Vitter's for that matter)?

Posted by: Sean Scallon on March 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

Swan: Spitzer personally prosecuted three high-profile prosecution cases.

Yeah, and that was his job. He wasn't being a hypocrite by doing his job, unless you think ever person in the US Army/Air Force/Navy/Marines is a hypocrite when they're not insubordinate every time a commander gives them an order they think is stupid. Spitzer can be a critic of anti-prostitution laws all he wants, but as a public prosecutor he's hired to bring prosecutions against prositution rings. He's basically saying to the state, "I accept your judgment as to the laws you pass, and I accept that my role as a citizen if I disagree is to try to vote or write to change the law." If Spitzer wasn't a prosecutor, someone else would be, and they would bring prostitution cases. There are many, many lawyers who wouldn't have minded at all getting to have Spitzers job. He would have stopped nothing by quitting, and he could have done more to stop outlawing prostitution by being a prosecutor but publicly protesting the laws in spite of it.

Posted by: Swan on March 10, 2008 at 4:14 PM | PERMALINK

Orson,

$5500 an hour? 44 grand per day? Wow. I'm in the wrong racket.

Yeah but I think you'd get maybe $10 a pop so you'd have to do bookoo piecework to earn that kinda dough.

Let's count the offenses shall we:

Hiring a prostitute - illegal
Cheating on wife - immoral
Prosecuting prostitution rings - hypocritical
Opening oneself to blackmail - breach of the public trust

I think that pretty much covers things. Did I miss anything?

Posted by: Tripp on March 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM | PERMALINK

I guess Spitzer is a Superdelegate, committed to Clinton, right? He'll have to resign of course.

Who is the Lt. Gov., and could he throw his support to Obama?

Posted by: paxr55 on March 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM | PERMALINK

Weenie,

Okay. Why is it Inkblot's fault? And you must answer without once using the word "cathouse."

Posted by: thersites on March 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM | PERMALINK

Fucking moron. I figured he would have been US attorney general in a Kerry administration.

He's got nowhere to go but down from here. Now if he were a Rethug . . .

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 4:22 PM | PERMALINK

The comment about Patterson is incorrect. First of all, Patterson is already a superdelegate because of his position on the DNC. Second of all despite being African American Patterson has been a firm and unwavering supporter of Clinton since she announced her candidacy. He has had kind words for Obama but he is firmly behind Clinton.

Posted by: Galois on March 10, 2008 at 4:22 PM | PERMALINK

And the upside of this catastrophe is:

David A. Paterson


Born May 20, 1954 (1954-05-20) (age 53)
Brooklyn, New York
Political party Democratic Party
Spouse Michelle Paige Paterson
Profession Lawyer

David A. Paterson (born May 20, 1954) is an American politician and the current Lieutenant Governor of New York. He is the first African American to hold this position. He was selected as running mate by New York Attorney General and Democratic Party nominee Eliot Spitzer in the 2006 New York gubernatorial election.

Paterson was born legally blind in Brooklyn in 1954. He received a BA from Columbia University in 1977 and later his law degree from Hofstra Law School. After law school, he went to work for the Queens District Attorney's Office. In 1985 he joined the campaign staff of David Dinkins for Manhattan Borough President. In October of that year, longtime state Senator Leon Bogues, representing a district covering Manhattan neighborhoods Harlem, Manhattan Valley and the Upper West Side, died and Paterson won a highly competitive New York (Manhattan) County Democratic party Committee selection process to serve the rest of Bogues' term. The following year, 1986, he won the seat for his first full term representing the 29th District in the New York State Senate.

He is the son of former New York Secretary of State Basil Paterson, who was the first African American NYC Deputy Mayor and the first to run for statewide office in New York. Secretary Paterson was the Democratic nominee for Lieutenant Governor in 1970. The elder Paterson also served in the NY state Senate in the same seat his son occupied. In 1993, David Paterson ran citywide for the office of the Public Advocate, the second highest elected office in New York City.

Paterson was elected Senate Minority Leader in 2002, becoming both the first non-white state legislative leader and the highest-ranking black elected official in the history of New York State.

A member of the Democratic National Committee and a board member of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, Paterson addressed the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston as well as the Democratic mayors at the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

Paterson is an active advocate for the visually and physically impaired. He was elected as a member of the American Foundation for the Blind, and also serves as a board member of the Achilles Track Club, having completed the New York City Marathon in 1999.

He has a younger sibling, Daniel, who is a New York government official. He lives in Harlem with his wife, Michelle Paige Paterson. They have two children: Ashley, who entered Ithaca College in fall, 2006, and Alex, who attends school in New York City.

He has been mentioned in some political circles as a possible successor to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton should the fellow New York Democrat win the 2008 US presidential election and resign the seat to assume the presidency.

He is an avid fan of New York sports teams, and has been known to call in to WFAN, the sports talk radio station of New York City.

Posted by: wobbly on March 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK

Spitzer appears--arguably of course-- to have violated the Mann Act: it is alleged the prostitute crossed State lines for immoral purposes at "Client 9's" request. A federal crime (the same one Chuck Berry got busted for) may mean the end of Mr. Spitzer's brilliant career. From the look on Mrs. Spitzer's face at his press conference, she seems to think so.

Posted by: petronius on March 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK

I'm with Kevin here.. but he should've just went to Nevada, where prostitution is legal.

Posted by: Andy on March 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

Open any yellow pages in this country, and you'll find multiple numbers under Escorts.

How come none of these get busted?

And how come they busted this one two weeks after they got Spitzer on tape? It isn't a coincidence.

Regardless, Spitzer doesn't have a choice but to resign. He's a liability to Democrats and progressives until he's gone.

Posted by: DR on March 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

This goes back to the Mann Act and the alleged transportation of Spitzer's hooker from NYC to DC -- i.e., white slavery across state lines. That is, legislative idiocy from a hundred years ago.

Why are Democrats expected to resign instantly while Republicans linger forever after their scandals are made public? Craig, Vitter, Jeff Gannon's White House clientele, etc.

Posted by: skimble on March 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

Weenie,

Okay. Why is it Inkblot's fault? And you must answer without once using the word "cathouse."

- Thersites

It is Inkblot's fault because he is male - and it is starting to appear that few of them are able to keep their peckers in their pockets while they are in office.

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

The NY Sun was speculating this morning that the reason high powered federal anti-corruption prosecutors were investigating this particular prostitution ring was because certain public oficials patronized it. What they were looking for, the Sun speculated, was how a public official making, say, $120,000 per year could get the money to patronize $5,000/hour prostitutes. That of course doesn't apply to Spitzer, who comes from a fabulously wealthy family. Thus, it appears he was a drive-by victim of an investigation aimed at other, possibly corrupt officials.

Of course it's hard to avoid a little schadenfreude in a case like this, considering that Spitzer made his reputation by ruining the lives and reputations of innocent men (like Hank Greenberg).

Posted by: DBL on March 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

SAO:

On the moral side, I highly doubt all of these "diamond" girls are there by their own will.

Show me one shred of evidence supporting that statement.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 4:29 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, and that was his job. He wasn't being a hypocrite by doing his job, unless you think ever person in the US Army/Air Force/Navy/Marines is a hypocrite when they're not insubordinate every time a commander gives them an order they think is stupid. Posted by: Swan

True. But unless the prostitution in question was anything other than a public nuisance, going after it is not a particularly good use of tax payer money. He did much greater public service nailing Wall Street and the insurance industry.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM | PERMALINK

Its getting to the point where we can no longer trust any ethics reform proposals for our public servants which come from a member of a major political party.

http://www.jeffwartman.com/2008/03/new-york-governor-eliot-spitzer-linked.html

Posted by: Jeff Wartman on March 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM | PERMALINK

Spitzer is a rock star and he's inspirational. Pretty sure this makes him invincible.

Posted by: B on March 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM | PERMALINK

What happens to Hillary's New York superdelegate count? Any impact?

Posted by: pj in jesusland on March 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

Weenie:
I shoulda known better than to ask. Time to go lie in the sun.

Posted by: thersites on March 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

optical weenie,

Ahem I believe peckers are meant to be kept in the pants not the pocket.

While we are on the subject does anyone know why chickens don't piss?


Because they eat with their peckers.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal, it is excellent.

Posted by: Tripp on March 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM | PERMALINK

The real news here is that Spitzer ISN'T a republican. I can understand republicans going to whores, but Democrats can usually get laid on their own.

But seriously, it's a sad day. I hate to see someone who's done so much good have his career scuttled over what amounts to simple human weakness.

Posted by: Dave Brown on March 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINK

The junior high school crowd sure has shown up for this one.

Don`t you people ever get tired of being total idiots ?

And anyone that supports "free markets" and thinks prostitution should be illegal is a very deluded determined hypocrite.

Of course I realize that most of the males pontificating here are jealous of Mr. Spitzer being able to have sex with these women.

Time to act your age folks and stop playing the Moralizer bunny.

"...It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins..." - Benjamin Franklin

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

At least he wasn't giving them drivers' licenses.

Posted by: thersites on March 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

All this makes me wonder what percentage of our top gov officials are getting a little on the side. Is catching Spitzer like catching a speeder on the interstate in LA?

Posted by: searcy on March 10, 2008 at 4:40 PM | PERMALINK

Shake a leg Thersites, shake a leg!

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 4:42 PM | PERMALINK

daCascadian,

Don`t you people ever get tired of being total idiots ?

Gosh I hope not.

But I'm confused. Should we glorify Spitzer or vilify him? Which would you have?

Me - it's more fun to make jokes. After the nutrition of vilifying Spitzer of course.

Posted by: Tripp on March 10, 2008 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

perhaps he was part of an undercover operation??

Posted by: Sting on March 10, 2008 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

Searcy,
I suspect that the answer to your question is the percentage of regular folks who cheat on their spouse x 2 (because of the being in office power factor).

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

All this makes me wonder what percentage of our top gov officials are getting a little on the side. Is catching Spitzer like catching a speeder on the interstate in LA?

Is this what they mean by government service?

Posted by: Tripp on March 10, 2008 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

We have come not to praise Spitzer, but to bury him.

Very truly yours,

Karl Rove
"I love it when a plan comes together!"

Posted by: MarkJ on March 10, 2008 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

Tripp,
I don't think this was government service - Spitzer would have had to have filled out 42 forms requesting that he be able to travel, then after that he would have to stick with government approved travel agency that has to book you into a hotel that has government rates. The hotel checks your ID when you get there to make certain that you are government employee.

I think Spitzer registered under a different name.

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 4:51 PM | PERMALINK

SAO:

On the moral side, I highly doubt all of these "diamond" girls are there by their own will.

Somehow, I think, at $5k per hour, the women involved needed very little cajoling to do that sort of work.

Posted by: Andy on March 10, 2008 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

He is an avid fan of New York sports teams

I'm gonna need to know which teams before I decide whether or not to vilify him.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 4:53 PM | PERMALINK

Tripp >"...Should we glorify Spitzer or vilify him? Which would you have?..."

Neither.

Time to move on and focus on the real problems the human community has. Hunger, lack of proper medical care, worship of cultivated ignorance etc.

As I posted earlier I think most male outrage expressed here over this situation is built on the hypocracy of jealousy.

And I am continually baffled at the ongoing internalizing of the ReThug propaganda by the large percentage of the human community.

Grow up and lose your chains !

YMMV of course...

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2008 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

Shortstop - Paterson is a Hillary supporter. Shouldn't that be enough for you? Vilify away!

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

LOL. Ah, weenie, it's not your support of Hillary that's your probl....oh, look, over there! A little bitty kitty witty! Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

well i'm glad at least one of us isn't a total idiot. i'm just not sure who this person might be.

Posted by: mudwall jackson on March 10, 2008 at 5:03 PM | PERMALINK

As I posted earlier I think most male outrage expressed here over this situation is built on the hypocracy of jealousy.

Mmmm, perhaps, had he been gettin' with these apparently lovely and talented ladies for free. But paying for it...probably not so much of an envy-stoker. However, as an XX-er (that's chromosomes, you rogues), who am I to say?

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

What is it with these elected officials who can't keep their pal in check. After The Clenis™ and Big Brother Bush you'd think this kind of risky business would be so over.

I hope that lay was the best of Spitzer's life.

Tragic.

Posted by: Lucy on March 10, 2008 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

Damn shame. I've always considered Spitzer a hero for taking on Wall Street scumbags.

But, he's gotta go. We can't ridicule Republicans for their hypocritical sexcapades if we look the other way when it's one of our own.

Another great man brought down by inability to keep it in his pants. When will you men ever learn?

Posted by: arteclectic on March 10, 2008 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

Actually Shortstop I got me a newbie baby kitty just this weekend. Rescued from the side of the local highway by my neighbor up the street.

Mirin is doing just fine. She's probably 12 weeks old, is gray and cream and has a white nose, white front mitts and white boots. It looks like she is going to be a long haired cat with a nice fluffy plume for a tail.

Of course Cleopatra, the empress of the universe, currently has her shorts in a knot, but she'll get over it.

Posted by: optical weenie on March 10, 2008 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

Spitzer evidently did not go with a "top of the line" prostiture for $5500/hr. He instead went with a mid level pro, and ended up paying $4300 for 2.5 hours. For that kind of money he could have gotten a reasonably good super bowel ticket.

Posted by: fafner1 on March 10, 2008 at 5:09 PM | PERMALINK

What is it with these elected officials who can't keep their pal in check. After The Clenis™ and Big Brother Bush you'd think this kind of risky business would be so over.

Seriously? Don't you think certain personality types get off--sorry--on risk? They're totally drawn to it.

Bill Clinton, for example, never would have been impeached had he selected a playmate with as much to lose (relatively speaking, since she obviously couldn't lose a presidency) as he did if word of their affair got out. Washington is full of beautiful, bright, sexy women who have wonderful public jobs and who want to stay married to their powerful husbands. But he went with...um, Monica.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 5:12 PM | PERMALINK

Well, I will say one thing for Spitzer: at least his sex scandal involves an adult woman. If he'd been a Republican, this probably would have involved him paying for some sordid sexual situation involving a small animal, a child, or some sort of creatively designed shrubbery or garden vegetable.

Posted by: Stefan on March 10, 2008 at 5:14 PM | PERMALINK

...some sort of creatively designed shrubbery or garden vegetable.

Probably not that creative. Probably strictly Hobby Lobby or Ben Franklin.

I meant to compliment you on a recent similar remark re topiaries, however. It cracked me up.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

One wonders if there are any GOP johns involved with this ring who have yet to be revealed.

Posted by: Pocket Rocket on March 10, 2008 at 5:18 PM | PERMALINK

Seriously? Don't you think certain personality types get off--sorry--on risk? They're totally drawn to it.

What can I say? You're right.

Posted by: Lucy on March 10, 2008 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

Another great man brought down by inability to keep it in his pants. When will you men ever learn?
Posted by: arteclectic

"Another great man"? I can't think of anyone else that got caught up in this sort of thing in the last decade that qualifies as "great." In fact, the one's who mostly come to mind have been idiot, Bible-thumping, pro-family, blah, blah, blah Republicans and Clinton, the latter being pretty mediocre overall as a president.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

arteclectic >"...Another great man brought down..."

He isn`t a "great man". None of them are "great men" or they wouldn`t be politicians who are the biggest whores on the planet.

Looks like a swarm of junior high folks has decended on the comment section here today. Anything else THE topic of lunch room conversation today, that dress Heather is wearing maybe ?

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." – Edward R. Murrow

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2008 at 5:40 PM | PERMALINK

I too think prostitution should be legal, but it isn't right now, and the guy was New York's Attorney General. I think it's more than just hypocrisy.

And he is a bit of a self-aggrandizing schmuck.

Posted by: luci on March 10, 2008 at 5:42 PM | PERMALINK

optical weenie, So if 40% of non-politician married males have affairs, then 80% of politicians do? That seems low to me.

Posted by: searcy on March 10, 2008 at 5:44 PM | PERMALINK
The first-term governor "said ( May, 2007) that the country faces a crisis in foreign policy, domestic economics and ethics. " A crisis," he said, "that needs somebody tall to stand up with pride" and say,"I am proud to lead this nation."

This was part of Spitizer's endorsement speech for Hillary Clinton for President...It has been scrubbed from her site. Now only Xaviera Hollander would seek Spitizer's endorsement to run anything.

Posted by: Steve Crickmore on March 10, 2008 at 5:52 PM | PERMALINK

Why call it "upscale"?

Politicos diddling with high-priced whores, who have highly organized pimps is something, but I wouldn't call it upscale.

Sleaze, gutter behavior, embarrassment to family and children. Would Bill Clinton have been downscale because he was taking advantage of a low-paid employee?

Upscale? Downscale? And using the name of a friend of his to try to cover his tracks. This guy is a lowlife, among lowlife. His wife should have grabbed the mike and told the assembled that she was resigning from membership in the Spitzer clan. And that she intended to make it a truly high-priced when this bizarre dope began to really pay the bill for his lowlife behavior.

Posted by: jJm Bouman on March 10, 2008 at 5:54 PM | PERMALINK

Now only Xaviera Hollander would seek Spitizer's endorsement to run anything. Posted by: Steve Crickmore

Apropos of nothing, she's got be in her 60s. I kind of doubt she's hooking anymore and I wonder is she's still happy?

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

daCascadian writes:
Looks like a swarm of junior high folks has decended on the comment section here today.

I see your point, but if this isn't a topic we can't have a little fun with, I don't know what is.

Jeff II writes:
"Another great man"? I can't think of anyone else that got caught up in this sort of thing in the last decade.

But if you remove the 'last decade' qualifier, you get JFK and MLK.. and possibly many other 'great' men..

Posted by: Andy on March 10, 2008 at 5:59 PM | PERMALINK

He and McGreevy should get together now.

Posted by: Stu on March 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

Well at least for the hooker's sake he was known as Mr. Clean!

Posted by: Stu on March 10, 2008 at 6:02 PM | PERMALINK

I bet you won't find him using the Haggard defense, "I was just meeting her to by some meth."

I actually feel sorry for these public guys who apparently have such a need for sex their wives can't supply that they risk everything to use a prostitute.

The male sex drive sure gets them into all kinds of trouble.

Count me on the side of prostitution (like drugs) should be legalized so it can be regulated.

It's not necessary to allow exploitation of women. That can still be illegal and probably is under other laws already on the books. But please explain to me why the government should care if someone pays someone else to have sex with them.

I have a suspicion that the illegality of prostituion has to do with the "unclean" nature of women in general according to some western religions. And to the persistent feeling on the part of some that any woman who enjoys sex is a slut.

Posted by: Cal Gal on March 10, 2008 at 6:03 PM | PERMALINK

But if you remove the 'last decade' qualifier, you get JFK and MLK.. and possibly many other 'great' men.. Posted by: Andy

Kennedy's tenure was too short to determine whether he would have been a great president or not. He made two major mistakes, the Bay of Pigs invasion and ratcheting up our involvement in Vietnam, that offset his one notable success with the so-called Cuban missile crisis.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 6:07 PM | PERMALINK

Send him up here. We need some politicians with balls.

Posted by: Captain Canada on March 10, 2008 at 6:22 PM | PERMALINK

Jeff 11, apparently Xaviera has gone legit and has a 'bed n breakfast' in Amsterdam and looks happy enough. Maybe Spitzer will have some time off soon, to visit it.

Posted by: Steve Crickmore on March 10, 2008 at 6:23 PM | PERMALINK

Doesn't matter if it should be legal or not. Fact is, it is illegal. This guy is a whole lot of stupid. Did he really think he wasn't going to get caught? Congrats Eliot. You just pissed away your career and marriage.

Posted by: Steve Hall on March 10, 2008 at 6:23 PM | PERMALINK

Cal Gal >"...But please explain to me why the government should care if someone pays someone else to have sex with them...."

It shouldn`t but note that "illegal" activities are the foundation of all crime groups so maybe there is a push to keep it "illegal" so as to enable manipulation of behavior of those in the government for the benefit of the "less than legal" crowd who would have to get "real jobs" if their money sources dried up.

Also I think your "unclean" comment is probably part of it.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2008 at 6:26 PM | PERMALINK

But please explain to me why the government should care if someone pays someone else to have sex with them. Posted by: Cal Gal

Ya! In some cultures it's called dating.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 6:34 PM | PERMALINK

If Spitz resigns, we New Norkers will have a Black blind Governor -- scion of a Harlem political family. Surely that's a first -- a particularly milestone for the legally blind.

Posted by: Hotspur on March 10, 2008 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINK

Surely that's a first -- a particularly milestone for the legally blind. Posted by: Hotspur

And certainly not at all to be confused with the legally stupid, this being a requirement, apparently, for all Republican politicians.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 6:49 PM | PERMALINK

"caught in a wiretap" my Sainted Aunt.

I'm gonna put on my tinfoil hat and say ALL communication is being filtered folks, otherwise the terrorists could talk and we might miss it.

Since we can't have THAT, we need to scan it all. Really.

This bust and Rockefeller's behavior are more easily understood after making this assumption.

Tinfoil hat off now. Really.

No, really.

Posted by: TonyT on March 10, 2008 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Mister Drum,

You need to get out more. Travel around the world and see what the scourge of prostitution brings. Will you tell your daughter that such is a viable career choice? (if she looks like you tell her to consider alternates)

DofCD

Posted by: DukeConDao on March 10, 2008 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

I, too, probably could have cared less about Gov. Eliot Spitzer's penchant for diddling around with hookers, were it not for him making such a big pompous fuss about cracking down on prostitution while he was N.Y. Atty. General.

In but one short press conference, he managed to expose himself to the world as yet another political hypocrite. Words cannot really express my utter disappointment in someone from whom I clearly expected better.

I'm sure that I'll feel differently about this situation after a short time, when I can get a better perspective about what he actually did -- but I tell ya, it's probably a good thing that he's taking a short leave from his post to be with his family. I seriously doubt if very many Democrats want to see his sorry fuckin' ass right now, anyway.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on March 10, 2008 at 7:12 PM | PERMALINK

I would call Craig's behavior objectionable. He did it in a public bathroom. I mean, get a room and then I don't care. But that isnot a scene I want to find when I walk into a mens room somewhere - please.

Posted by: George on March 10, 2008 at 7:13 PM | PERMALINK

It's refreshing to have a heterosexual political sex scandal for a change.

But it is dismaying to see writers to this forum using words like "sclerotic", when "tumescence" and "erection" would have filled the bill.

Posted by: Artisbey on March 10, 2008 at 7:20 PM | PERMALINK

You need to get out more. Travel around the world and see what the scourge of prostitution brings. Will you tell your daughter that such is a viable career choice? (if she looks like you tell her to consider alternates) Posted by: DukeConDao

I doubt too many loving parents want their daughters (or sons) turning tricks. But I don't think you can quite draw a straight line between forced child prostitution in failed or semi-failed Third World states like Cambodia or India and "pros" in Western countries who are paid, in this case, reportedly $5,400.00 a trick. Even if 75% goes to the house, if the woman in question worked just five nights/days a week and took four weeks of vacation, she's making more $300K/year.

The whole point of legalizing something that's going to happen anyway is to regulate it so that exploitation can be, at least, minimized if not entirely eliminated.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 7:25 PM | PERMALINK

Orson: "$5500 an hour? 44 grand per day?"

Eliot Spitzer must've been fucking Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie -- together.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 7:26 PM | PERMALINK

It's an old story, I suppose. Glittering credentials, rich family, 1580 SATs, perfect LSATS. Princeton and Harvard Law. Howard Fineman was just on Matthews saying he covered Spitzer and thought he was weirdly unhappy. Seemed he felt he was trapped in a world partly handed to him and then shaped, we're led to assume, mostly to his liking. A lovely, equally credentialed wife. Three teen-aged daughters. The NY governorship. And he was unhappy? And a call girl is going to fix that? Couldn't he have had the panache to have fallen in love with his mistress?

Posted by: paxr55 on March 10, 2008 at 7:37 PM | PERMALINK

I guess some people are subject to the law, be just not Republicans.

How do you win a 2008 election on that, because you don't and can't.

I mean if Bush can lie about torture, than want to make it legal. If Bush can lie about wiretapping, than want to make it legal - will someone is above the law - but it just ain't Dems.

Want to get drunk and shoot someone in the face - than report it 24 hours later after you've had time to sober up - will why not if your a Republican? Huh?

Want to stack the DoJ and fire honest attorneys that were just doing their jobs - will why not cause it's exaclty what Bush did, and it was his pleasure to do, thus in the GOP - no law need EVER apply. Only Dems are suppost to have any morality, are suppost to abide by laws. Strange huh?

The religous right in action. The only laws happen to be whatever law they make-up.


Posted by: me-again on March 10, 2008 at 7:38 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, I'm kinda glad I ain't arguing this is no big deal.

It IS a big deal, and Spitzer needs to resign immediately and get some professional help.

From the Federal Affadavit:

No more calls were logged until 12:02 a.m. Thursday -- Valentine's Day -- nearly 2½ hours later. At that time, Kristen told Lewis Client 9 had left and she had collected $4,300.

Lewis told the prostitute she'd been told that Client 9 "would ask you to do things that, like, you might not think are safe -- you know -- I mean that ... very basic things," the affidavit says.

Kristen told Lewis, "I have a way of dealing with that. ... I'd be like, listen dude, you really want the sex?"

"I don't think he's difficult," Kristen is quoted as saying. "I mean it's just kind of like ... whatever ... I'm here for a purpose. I know what my purpose is. I am not a ... moron, you know what I mean."

I mean, it's pretty obvious--he's into what a call girl would consider a "deviant" type of sexual practice. And if what you're doing with a woman who is paid to have sex with men is considered "dangerous," you have issues that go well beyond anything we have to consider as far as politics are concerned.

I still thing the fact that he has access to classified material is important as well. Plus, how much you wanna bet that call girl ring has organized crime ties?

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 7:44 PM | PERMALINK

Israeli Sniper Takes 12-Year-Old Girl's Life

"I put my hand on her chest to stop the streaming blood. She told me that she could not breathe, her body trembled and she closed her eyes," said Ra'd Abu Saif of his 12-year-old daughter Safa's last moments after she was shot by an Israeli sniper last Saturday.

http://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/1071.html

Posted by: Howard Ure on March 10, 2008 at 7:50 PM | PERMALINK

Some of you guys are right. Prostitution should be illegal. Fortunately we have escorts and massage parlours.

Posted by: Tonto Goldstein, the Jewish Cowboy on March 10, 2008 at 7:54 PM | PERMALINK

Legal or not, prostitution is the oldest profession. But Americans do have a problem with sexuality. All day the guys gossip on TV and act as if it is news worth talking about 24/7. They never spend that much time on real news, real issues.

At least they should make a distinction in just using the service of a prostitute or being linked to a prostitute ring as if he was making money as the headlines implied. But when the males start thinking with their tails.

Posted by: renate on March 10, 2008 at 7:56 PM | PERMALINK

I mean, it's pretty obvious--he's into what a call girl would consider a "deviant" type of sexual practice.

LOL, no--it's pretty obvious he wanted to skip the condom. That's what "very basic things" and her telling him "You want the sex...? [No glove, no love]" means.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 8:00 PM | PERMALINK

Jeff II: "I doubt too many loving parents want their daughters (or sons) turning tricks."

But then again, who are we to judge? To be perfectly honest, I have an old friend from my high school days -- who will remain anonymous, of course -- who became a very well-known and popular adult film star during the early '80s. She actually used her earnings to put herself through both college and medical school. 25 years later, she's a well-respected pediatrician, who also donates a good deal of time providing health care for indigent children through one of the free clinics in the L.A. area.

As Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders once told us, "We're in possession of the thing that men want. So, who's better than who?"

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on March 10, 2008 at 8:02 PM | PERMALINK

He's toast and good fucking riddance.

His "crusades" against various Wall Street power players were merely political theater to support his will to power. His daddy is a big shot real estate developer, and Eliot is funded by the real estate development machine in the big apple. He's a playah, not a white knight.

Look out for the little guy?

Bullshit.

The fact that some people think that prostitution "should" be legal is irrelevant here. He is supposed to symbolize law and order, he is supposed to be a reformer -- he is, in fact, just another ambitious, win at all costs megalomaniac who has never hesitated to use the formidable government tools at his disposal to harass political rivals and build up his personal resume (see Giuliani, Rudolph).

He's going down in flames and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I say this as a registered Democrat in NYC.

Posted by: lobbygow on March 10, 2008 at 8:03 PM | PERMALINK

That's what "very basic things" and her telling him "You want the sex...? [No glove, no love]" means.

I totally misread that. Man, am I red-faced.

It could mean bullwhips, cheez wiz and reptiles, too, couldn't it?

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 8:03 PM | PERMALINK

It could mean bullwhips, cheez wiz and reptiles, too, couldn't it? Posted by: Pale Rider

We don't know, PR, you tell us.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

No, I'm guessing that even a pro wouldn't call reptiles "very basic things." Bullwhips and Cheez Wiz, sure.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

We don't know, PR, you tell us.

I don't know! That's why I'm asking! This is research for scientific reasons, ya know.

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

Science!

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM | PERMALINK

Science!

I thought Bill Foster should have used that song for his victory celebration. That was one dull-looking bash, and the lighting was most unflattering. But then that district's newly liberal. They'll learn soon enough how to throw a good party.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 8:11 PM | PERMALINK

Wow! What a day, and I'm late for it. I have barely skimmed the thread, but want to chime in and agree with Shortstop at 8:00 p.m. as far as what "very basic things" constitutes. I mean, I know this from watching crime shows, not experience, but still, I don't think he's into choking or anything at all "Lady Heatherish."

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State on March 10, 2008 at 8:18 PM | PERMALINK

I mean, I know this from watching crime shows, not experience, but still, I don't think he's into choking or anything at all "Lady Heatherish."

You can trip on a bullwhip and then choke on the cheez wiz--believe me. And that fucking turtle will just sit there and stare at you with those dark, emotionless eyes...

Posted by: Pale Rider on March 10, 2008 at 8:20 PM | PERMALINK

His "crusades" against various Wall Street power players were merely political theater to support his will to power. His daddy is a big shot real estate developer, and Eliot is funded by the real estate development machine in the big apple. He's a playah, not a white knight.

While the second part may be true, it seems to me that the nation needs more of these kinds of "crusades" and "political theater," Mr. "registered Democrat in NYC," or has the nature of our current economic woes eludeD you?

Look out for the little guy? Bullshit.

So, the multi-million dollar fines various trading houses and such paid was not to punish illegal activity, just show trial stuff? What did you want, heads on stakes down on Church Street? Do I detect the rancor of someone caught on the wrong side of financial law?

The fact that some people think that prostitution "should" be legal is irrelevant here. He is supposed to symbolize law and order, he is supposed to be a reformer

I don't think you'll find a single post above condoning his actions or saying that we should all just turn a blind eye to this, as if we had a choice.

. . . he is, in fact, just another ambitious, win at all costs megalomaniac who has never hesitated to use the formidable government tools at his disposal to harass political rivals and build up his personal resume (see Giuliani, Rudolph).

He in no way resembles Guiliani (save perhaps for the heretofore unknown aspects of his private life). Spitzer did good things. Guiliani really didn't have a single positive accomplishment to his name during his years as mayor.

I say this as a registered Democrat in NYC. Posted by: lobbygow

If it walks like a concern troll . . .


Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 8:21 PM | PERMALINK

You can trip on a bullwhip and then choke on the cheez wiz--believe me. And that fucking turtle will just sit there and stare at you with those dark, emotionless eyes... Posted by: Pale Rider

We have a winner! LOL

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM | PERMALINK

I would think stuff refers to a rimjob

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM | PERMALINK

Easy, Jeff. lobbygow's got established creds here. He's no concern troll.

We have a winner! LOL

We do. And I heard that in the voice of Norman Rogers for some reason. In his case it would more likely have been a Russian sable, illegally imported.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 8:28 PM | PERMALINK

I would think stuff refers to a rimjob Posted by:

If so, I think you need to get a new owner's manual for the human body. Unless of course you're talking about doing this with a creme brulee blowtorch or 100 grit sandpaper.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 10, 2008 at 8:29 PM | PERMALINK

I would think stuff refers to a rimjob

I thought of that too. But Shortstop is right about her saying, "If you really want the sex." That had to mean "Use a condom."

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 8:31 PM | PERMALINK

I hope his wife tosses him out on his ass and he ends up on the street.

If democrats are to be the moral party then we need to demonstrate that we don't support "anything goes".

He betrayed his wife, his family, the citizens of New York, and the democratic party.


Posted by: Adam on March 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM | PERMALINK

All I know is we're all going to be in biiiiig trouble when daCascadian comes back and sees us still talking about this.

Posted by: shortstop on March 10, 2008 at 8:34 PM | PERMALINK

Tell him you had to bring me up to speed...

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State on March 10, 2008 at 8:37 PM | PERMALINK

"I would think stuff refers to a rimjob."

God, I want to get or give a rimjob... And Bloomberg comes to NY's rescue

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 8:41 PM | PERMALINK

I think his reputation as a tough prosecutor necessitates the parachute option (non-golden division).

Posted by: Kenji on March 10, 2008 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINK

I agree this should be legal, but if it's not, it's something we actually should care about but not for moralistic reasons or because of simple (though grandly ironic) hypocrisy. If he took it upon himself to bust prostitution rings, a very serious ethical and legal question needs to be examined: Did he in any way protect this prostitution ring, and did his prosecution of other rings lead to a material benefit for this ring? In other words, how much did this ring benefit from his political and legal authority? Because any answer other than "none" -- which seems somewhat unlikely, to me -- raises the stakes from "poor judgement in an otherwise private matter" to possible criminal charges of corruption and conspiracy.

Hiring a prostitute is one thing, I have no real problem with that aside from disappointment in his commitment to his marriage and concern about how this will be used against the party. But if he used the power of office to protect, enable or enrich this particular prostitution ring while targeting others then he's crossed a very important line and that requires serious investigation.

Posted by: Mark Kawakami on March 10, 2008 at 8:58 PM | PERMALINK

Prosecutors are the problem institution of justice. Even supposed good prosecutors like Spitzer hypocritically ply their trade of human misery while proclaiming their duty to justice. Prosecutors are compromised fallible human beings who have been given too much power to ruin people's lives without the kind of quality control oversight that would greatly improve justice for citizens and limit their many corruptions.

Posted by: Brojobo on March 10, 2008 at 8:59 PM | PERMALINK

Let's face it, we all make mistakes. Looking at it closer, it clearly has all the hallmarks of a Cheney/Bush railroad. Cheney and Bush should resign asap.

Spitzer will weather this one and come back stronger than ever. We must learn to forgive and forget; the sooner the better. Shame on Bush for all this BS and the "liberal" media for covering a personal story that quite frankly is nobodys business.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 9:04 PM | PERMALINK

What about the downtown DC ladies? How do they feel about Spitzer's importing uptown ladies from New York City? Aren't the DC ladies good enough for him?

Posted by: DC Transplant on March 10, 2008 at 9:23 PM | PERMALINK

there is a lot more to this story.

where does a pulic servant get tens of thousands of dollars for that kind of service?

what ever happened to the value shoppers $20 blow job?

He should of said he thought it was for a hair cut... ha ha... (poor John)

young interns are free dude...just ask Billary...

Posted by: slick wilbur on March 10, 2008 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

Upscale prostitution cost him $5500/hour.

Let's not inflate things. Based on the Emperor's Club "diamond" ratings:
3 = $1000/hr; 4 = $1200/hr; 5 = $1500/hr; 6 = $2100/hr; 7 = $3100/hr
Travel, hotel, whips, cheez whiz, reptiles etc. extra.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 9:39 PM | PERMALINK

hah hah hah. victimless crime is so funny.

What did "Kristen" realize for her troubles?

Posted by: paxr55 on March 10, 2008 at 9:43 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop >"All I know is we're all going to be in biiiiig trouble when daCascadian comes back and sees us still talking about this."

Nah, silly chatter gossip is what junior high minds do with their time so I expect it. And, my experience suggests, the "holier than thou" ones are probably involved in some not so legal behavior of one type or another themselves.

I just keep hoping that some of the junior high minds will decide one day to attempt to act their physical age and focus on the real problems of the human community.

Apparently someday it will happen but not this week.

"Let everyone sweep in front of his own door, and the whole world will be clean." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2008 at 9:44 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry Kevin. You don't have to be a prude to realize that prostitution is simply not a victimless crime.

Posted by: Amur on March 10, 2008 at 9:51 PM | PERMALINK

paxr55: What did "Kristen" realize for her troubles?

As much as she could get.

I'm here for a purpose. I know what my purpose is. I am not a ... moron, you know what I mean. That's what it is, because you're here for a [purpose]. Let's not get it twisted - I know what I do, you know.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 9:56 PM | PERMALINK

How appropriate it is that our next Gov. is blind. I guess at least he is honest about his capabilities.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 10:05 PM | PERMALINK

Da Cascadian says: "And, my experience suggests, the "holier than thou" ones are probably involved in some not so legal behavior of one type or another themselves."

That could be, son. And my experience suggests that someone throwing as many hysterical hissies as you do in this thread has some personal experience with getting busted on a prostitution charge. May I call you John?

Posted by: Officer Friendly on March 10, 2008 at 10:07 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for that, no name.

The question stands. What does "Kristen" take home? Is it fair. Does it pay for her tuition? Her rent. At what cost to her dignity? What does her pimp make as a proportion of her earnings? Is this fair? Who decides? The pimp or the girl?

Posted by: paxr55 on March 10, 2008 at 10:07 PM | PERMALINK

The latest report from ABC News is that the feds first became interested in this prostitution ring because they were following up leads that they had received about funny -money transfers by Spitzer. The banks had apparently reported the transfers as they are required to do under federal money laundering statutes. The feds thought that perhaps Spitzer was hiding bribe money so they started an investigation. That investigation led to the prostitution ring and Spitzer's likely impending indictment for "structuring" (a form of money laundering) and perhaps a Mann Act violation.

If I were Spitzer's lawyer, I'd advise him to strike a deal with the feds - he resigns in return for a slap on the wrist.

Posted by: DBL on March 10, 2008 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

daCascadian: Grow up and lose your chains !

You grow up. Don't you judge me.

Posted by: bondage enthusiast on March 10, 2008 at 10:23 PM | PERMALINK

Time to act your age folks and stop playing the...bunny.

Yeah, mind your own business, prude.

Posted by: Furry on March 10, 2008 at 10:24 PM | PERMALINK

paxr55 -- Based on my limited experience--an ex-girlfriend once in the biz, although not quite so high-falutin' as the Emperor's Club appears to have been--it's negotiated. At least for those who aren't drugged-out or otherwise coerced. And woe to anyone who suggested she was a "victim" and not cognizant of what she was doing, or that she wasn't smart and strong enough to negotiate a good deal, or too weak and stupid to walk away from a bad deal.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 10:52 PM | PERMALINK

Officer Friendly >"...And my experience suggests...some personal experience with getting busted on a prostitution charge. May I call you John?"

Well your experience is all wet Officer Dipstick. Never any experience w/prostitution or related legal issues. I just happen to have a lot of unscheduled time today. And I ain`t your son, I`m older than you.

At least the comments get "more interesting" in the evening.

"The essence of political freedom depends not on the fanatics of "justice", but rather on all the invigorating, beneficial, and detergent effects of dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

who cares. This stuff shouldn't be illegal in the first place and I don't care what these guys do in their private time.

Gee, Kev, that was pretty much your response to the Bill Bennett gambling scandal too, wasn't it?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_02/010825.php

Oops, I guess not. That's interesting. Gambling ISN'T illegal, and in any case Bennett never railed against it, but you're never one to miss an opportunity to "deflate pompous right-wing gasbags", are you?

On the other hand, prostitution IS illegal, and Elliot Spitzer prosecuted people for it, whereas Bennett simply spent his time "hectoring others about leading a vice-free life" (in your words). I guess Bennett "hectoring" people about vices other than gambling, when Bennett himself gambled, was far worse than Spitzer actually sending people to JAIL for the EXACT same behavior Spitzer engages in?

Posted by: Rob Leder on March 10, 2008 at 11:10 PM | PERMALINK

far worse than Spitzer actually sending people to JAIL for the EXACT same behavior Spitzer engages in?

Well...what do you mean by "exact," exactly?

Posted by: Kristen on March 10, 2008 at 11:13 PM | PERMALINK

Again, thank you, no name.

A beautiful girl ended up at the Mayflower on February 13, without much joy, to have paid sex with the governor of New York. You offer in his defense:

Based on my limited experience . . .

ex-girlfriend once in the biz

although not quite so high-high-falutin' as the Emperor's Club appears to have been--it's negotiated.

for those who aren't drugged-out or otherwise coerced.

And woe to anyone who suggested she was a "victim" and not cognizant of what she was doing

or that she wasn't smart and strong enough to negotiate a good deal

or too weak and stupid to walk away from a bad deal.

Offered without comment.

Posted by: paxr55 on March 10, 2008 at 11:17 PM | PERMALINK

My bet is, Spitzer already knows he can beat the rap on this one. He was a prosecutor, and I'm sure he's well aware of the quantum of evidence necessary to produce a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe the feds screwed up and didn't get a new warrant when they knew they weren't wiretapping him for bribery anymore, but for solicitation instead. Also, Spitzer seemed like he was aware that somebody was paying attention to his actions - he insisted on using cash instead of the customary wire transfers.

Posted by: Pocket Rocket on March 10, 2008 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK

paxr55: You offer in his defense

Say what? I did not, and do not, defend Spitzer. He is a sleaze. As to Kristen approaching the encounter "without much joy", the same could be said of any number of people who have to go to work every day.

Posted by: on March 10, 2008 at 11:39 PM | PERMALINK

Aren't we (Americans in general) just basically starved for political figures we can TRUST.

Off we go into debating whether prostitution should be legal or not, whether Spitzer should be given a pass because it's "private", and all of that.

"Trust" comes from acting/behaving in ways that are consistent with whatever image you project --- with what you say and pretend to believe in. That, and showing that you are fully capable of doing your job and not steering the ship into the rocks.

I think the reality of it is, for the man on the street (and me): If you are so messed up and/or stupid to get yourself into a predicament like this, you just showed me you don't deserve to be MY leader, to be the one I would trust to "do the right things". Spitzer can try to persuade me, as he started to do in his short statement, that political leadership is all about issues and so forth. I'm not buying. It's very MUCH about living your life in a way that makes me proud to call you my leader. I care less about the punishment or the technicalities. Game over.

Posted by: Terry Ott on March 10, 2008 at 11:54 PM | PERMALINK

I hope all you paycheck whores realize who the real sluts are.

Posted by: kristen on March 11, 2008 at 12:02 AM | PERMALINK

Was Spitzer a Texas-style Bar-B-Q simmering for over 4 years that needed to be finished off before TeamBush left office?

Texas style Bar-B-Q for Spitzer? - http://www.tpj.org/press_releases/piobankers.html
Hounded by Spitzer, top investment bankers - including new Bush Ranger Stanley O'Neal of Merrill Lynch and new Pioneer James Cayne of Bear Stearns - hosted Bush's most lucrative fundraiser...

Posted by: Elvis on March 11, 2008 at 12:04 AM | PERMALINK

So he is the Governor of New York! That sorts that out.I take it he is soon to resign, or Clinton on.And then to be replaced by the unimpreachable morality of a Bush clone.

Posted by: wmmbb on March 11, 2008 at 12:14 AM | PERMALINK

DofCD:
You need to get out more. Travel around the world and see what the scourge of prostitution brings.

No need to travel around the world - just go to Nevada, where it's legal. Tell me, what scourge does it bring there?


Posted by: Andy on March 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINK

daCascadian: "I just keep hoping that some of the junior high minds will decide one day to attempt to act their physical age and focus on the real problems of the human community."

You know what? Your almost complete lack of any sense of humor reminds me of Katie, the dogmatic leftist (Barbra Streisand) who pined for golden boy Robert Redford in the 1972 movie The Way We Were.

i don't think those problems are going to exactly disappear by tomorrow morning, so there's plenty of time to be serious later. If you can't enjoy a good laugh at this real-time, true-life bedroom farce, then I feel very sorry for you.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on March 11, 2008 at 2:09 AM | PERMALINK

Uh-oh.

All kidding aside now -- perhaps we DO need to take a closer look at the Justice Dept.'s own conduct in this sordid story.

Scott Horton of Harper's reports that the department's investigation of Gov. Spitzer was opened by its now-discredited Public Integrity Section under an anachronistic and archaic statute called "The White-Slave Traffic Act of 1910."

This disreputable law was first enacted and then used by authorities to successfully prosecute a black man, heavyweight boxing champion Jack Johnson, in line with our country's then-tradition of legal misagenation, for his open dalliance with a white woman, Lucille Cameron. It was also used to drive actor Charlie Chaplin into exile in Switzerland in 1944 for his affair with an actress several decades his junior, Joan Barry.

If the Bush White House was in fact specifically stalking and targeting Mr. Spitzer, rather than investigating a prostitution ring, then it's potentially a whole 'nother ball game. ABC News reported tonight that the investigation was triggered when the IRS had initially opened a line of inquiry to Spitzer's bank, which Horton strongly suggests is a sign that this was a politically motivated sting.

I, for one, would really like some more specific answers from Attorney General Michael Mukasey, before we acquiesce to throw Elliot Spitzer under the proverbial bus.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on March 11, 2008 at 3:18 AM | PERMALINK

Does the fact New York Governor sees prostitutes in his spare time disturb you? What if it was kept concealed from the public? would that render him unfit to serve as Governor? I'm trying to gauge public opinion on this one. If you're interested, please vote on my poll:
http://www.pollsb.com/polls/poll/7145/does-the-fact-new-york-governor-sees-prostitutes-in-his-spare-time-disturb-you

Posted by: Arnold on March 11, 2008 at 7:40 AM | PERMALINK

Scott Horton of Harper's reports that the department's investigation of Gov. Spitzer was opened by its now-discredited Public Integrity Section under an anachronistic and archaic statute called "The White-Slave Traffic Act of 1910." Posted by: Donald from Hawaii

Yes. I caught the tail end of an interview on NPR with a woman that had written a book about Spitzer. Her tag on the piece was how he had violated the old-timey Mann Act as well. I guess this might be the case if he'd kidnapped the woman and drove her to DC himself. I doubt that was the case, however.

Spitzer is guilty of at least three things here (breaking the law, committing adultery, and breaking public trust). But only an idiot would bring up the Mann Act under the circumstances.

Posted by: Jeff II on March 11, 2008 at 10:34 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin,
I think you are wrong on this one. Spitzer broke the law--not just state, but federal law. Regardless of what you may think of that law, its a longstanding federal statute, one that every lawyer knows, and one that Spitzer certainly knows from his days as a prosecutor. And, its not just the sex, is the money. He paid thousands of dollars to an organization engaged in an illegal activity. He paid thousands of dollars as part of an illegal activity.

Clinton had a moral indiscretion, but broke no law in doing so. Spitzer had a moral indiscretion, but also broke the law in doing so, and as a result, could very well be subject to criminal prosecution. Regardless of how it was discovered, that doesn't change the fact that he was caught breaking the law.

He's in real legal trouble here, he probably knows it, and its really hard to see how he stays in office.

Posted by: TK on March 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM | PERMALINK

The human being, like the immortals, natually places sexual intercourse far and away above all other joys--yet he has left it out of his heaven!

The very thought of it excites him; opportunity sets him wild; in this state he will risk life, reputation, everything--even his queer heaven itself--to make good that opportunity and ride it to the overwhelming climax.

From youth to middle age all men and all women prize copulation above all other pleasures combined, yet it actually as I have said: it is not in their heaven; prayer takes its place.

Mark Twian
Letters from the Earth
1906

Posted by: samuel clemens on March 11, 2008 at 10:53 AM | PERMALINK

Her tag on the piece was how he had violated the old-timey Mann Act as well. I guess this might be the case if he'd kidnapped the woman and drove her to DC himself. I doubt that was the case, however.

The 1910 act is the Mann Act. Without making any commentary for or against the value or propriety of the MA, I will note that its enforcement has not been limited to personally transporting a person across state lines (either with or against her will). It has also been successfully applied to plain old interstate travel, the kind that happened here.

Posted by: shortstop on March 11, 2008 at 10:54 AM | PERMALINK

The first reports (breaking news on NPR, fer cripes' sake) made me think "Involved in a prostitution ring? What is he? one of the managers?"

And then it came out: he'd been "johned." Welcome to the crapped-on class, Mister Governor.

Illegal? yeah, but usually tolerated. Good value for money? If not, then the cynic in me says we ought to wonder about Spitzer's acumen in handling public funds. At the very least the Justice Department ought to hand this over to the Dept. of Labor to ascertain whether or not the sex worker in question was paid fair compensation for what she performed as part of her work day.

Posted by: hdware on March 11, 2008 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

Thank you all for making this a great comment section to come back to. I already stated my disdain for Spitzer. Even if prostitution were legal (and I used to favor that but not so strongly now) there still is the betrayal of his wedding vow and the betrayal of public trust. These things may be common but they are still bad things.

Unless his wife comes out and says she condoned this thing beforehand which it doesn't sound like she will do this is a bad thing.

But daCascadian, if one fights the problems of the world 24X7 one will go crazy. Humor is a great escape valve, and as others have pointed out, in this case the jokes practically write themselves. We can't even be accused of partisan politics in this case because it is one of our own.

Personally I've been absolutely faithful to my wife of 26 years so I do this guilt-free. I'm not even jealous, really. I am a little curious to know what in the world such a huge price buys you and how rich you have to be to pay it but personally I just don't see the value in it. I like good things but at some point isn't one simply throwing his money away?

Sadly politicians just aren't like you and me. I might act the same way in the same situation although at this time I don't see how I could.

Posted by: Tripp on March 11, 2008 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

hdware,

At the very least the Justice Department ought to hand this over to the Dept. of Labor to ascertain whether or not the sex worker in question was paid fair compensation for what she performed as part of her work day.

As a good little liberal I also want to know if she paid taxes on her income. If we are going to soak the rich then let's soak the rich as well as the rich who make their money, uh, soaking the rich.

Posted by: Tripp on March 11, 2008 at 12:04 PM | PERMALINK

Tripp:

The "betrayal of his wedding vow" argument against extramarital affairs has always struck me as being very dubious. I've listened to the vows most couples tell each other when they get married, and fidelity is only a small part of what's usually said. The couples also typically promise to be together until they die (not until they don't want to be married anymore). Yet today, people who divorce their spouses are not usually condemned for it, even though they are generally breaking their vows by doing so. If divorcing your spouse is not wrong even though it violates marriage vows, why are extramarital affairs automatically wrong for that reason?

It seems as though the vows argument is an after the fact argument, that we've already decided to condemn affairs beforehand, and so we develop an argument that supports what we've already concluded. It's the same selective logic that fundamentalists use when they quote the Bible to condemn homosexuality or argue that the universe is 6,000 years old. You never hear them quoting the part that says children who curse their parents should be put to death.

Posted by: Lee on March 11, 2008 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

Sad all around, especially for his wife and three daughters.

Power and sex - nothing new since time immemorial.

I wonder if any Republican Senator will publically comment on the matter? I remember reading in the media, that when Senator Vitter returned to the Senate, after it was revealed that his phone number turned up in the phone records of a Madam who is on trial in Washington, DC of running a Prostitution service, that fellow Republican Senators gave him a standing ovation during a closed door meeting. I believe the trial of that Madam is still on going.

Posted by: John on March 11, 2008 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

Lee,

I never really thought it through before but here is my reasoning.

In my mind the secrecy is what makes sexual infidelity different. As I said, if a spouse knows about it and approves it beforehand that is different.

If someone unilaterally divorced his/her spouse without telling him/her beforehand that would be very much more like the infidelity. As far as I know most divorces are not sprung as a complete surprise. Usually both spouses know where things are heading beforehand.

I know that is nuanced and not as short as 'breaking a wedding vow' which is what I first said.

I would not agree with any fundamentalist who claims that a no-fault mutually agreed to divorce is as bad as sexual infidelity because they both break the wedding vow.

Posted by: Tripp on March 11, 2008 at 1:57 PM | PERMALINK

Tripp,

I have problems with the idea that just because something is done secretly, that makes it wrong. What if someone was married to a rabid, pro-Bush, Clinton-hating Republican, but they themselves decided to give money to Hillary Clinton? What if they knew their spouse would be outraged if they found out, so they did it secretly? Would this make it wrong? I don't think so.

And I find it offensive that one spouse would have to "approve" the sexual behavior of another. In no other area is it considered necessary for someone's husband or wife to approve of what they are doing. I think consenting adults have the right to have sex if they want, whether a spouse or other outside party approves of it or not. I think it's like freedom of speech, religion, etc.

I hope you don't take any of these comments as hostility toward you, I don't intend them that way. I just get pissed off when so many people in our society are so unthinkingly self-righteous in their views. I remember reading that during the Civil War, slaveowners were often outraged and felt sure they had been "wronged" when their slaves were freed.

Posted by: Lee on March 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

1) Most "human trafficking" is used to provide the "labor force" for prostitution worldwide. Making that legal isn't exactly "freedom-loving", is it?

2) This is worse for a public figure. Because, Yes, even legal, it would be a reasonable case for blackmail.

First, what if his wife didn't know? Would he pay/do things to avoid her finding out? Probably.

Second, last I recall Adultery, even though its legal, is generally discouraged by the voting public. What steps are worth taking to be re-elected? Watching campaigns you see the ones they'll freely take, and you think extra pressure won't hurt?

Third, visiting a strip club is legal, so why have some morality groups taken pictures of all "customers" and posted them online? Legal isn't sufficient to prevent all shame from being associated with an act.

"I don't think you can quite draw a straight line between forced child prostitution in failed or semi-failed Third World states like Cambodia or India and "pros" in Western countries who are paid, in this case, reportedly $5,400.00 a trick."

So, when deciding a general rule, we should consider one specific example, and ignore all examples in the rest of the world, including (specifically) nations that have taken this step where Prostitution is legal?

Or are you simply going to ignore the "forced prostitution" they've found in say, Amsterdam? Is Amsterdam a "third world country"? Is the "red light district" not filled with "western World 'pros'"?

Now maybe, from a purely theoretical viewpoint; prostitution shouldn't encourage kidnapping/slavery and therefore shouldn't have to be illegal.

But from a purely theoretical viewpoint, I can show that Communism is the best possible form of Government.

(Un?)Fortunately, we have the "wrong kind of people" for my theoretical plan to work. I'll posit that we have the wrong kind of people for your theory to work as you hope as well.

Posted by: Gekkobear on March 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

Tripp,

The other thing is that I think that regardless of how one personally views something like infidelity, I don't think it's appropriate for the media or others to impose their beliefs on the subject on politicians or anyone else. Which is basically what's going on in situations like these. I think sexual behavior (between consenting adults) is something where each person has to decide for themselves what they believe is "moral" and act accordingly. Just like abortion.

Posted by: Lee on March 11, 2008 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Tripp: soaking the rich...
no, that's "being screwed by the rich"

Posted by: Stewart Dean on March 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

I just don't understand how you people can say it doesn't matter. Isn't public service as much an ethical leadership as it is policy leadership? Don't you agree to step into a glassbowl as soon as you are elected and before? Yes, your values in private will spill over and influence your policies in public.

His conduct is not becoming and does not reach the threshold required of an elected official.

Posted by: elr on March 11, 2008 at 2:56 PM | PERMALINK

JFK had sex with prostitutes in the White House. Should he have resigned because of it?

Posted by: Lee on March 11, 2008 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

Aren't we (Americans in general) just basically starved for political figures we can TRUST.

This is the essence of my "concern troll" post earlier.

I've had just about enough of patrician politicians who crow about "rule of law" until it those very same laws threaten what they've assumed are the privileges of power.

It's all about the abuse of power.

I could not care less who Eliot Spitzer has sex with. And I don't think that selling of sex in and of itself should not be considered immoral. But in our patriarchal, sexist, and frequently misogynistic society, the structure of the institution known as prostitution is dangerous and exploitative. That's why prostitution is illegal -- because it's generally destructive given our current underlying culture and the history of how sex has been trafficked in this country. This isn't about personal choices. This is about breaking the law and enabling a social ill (sexual exploitation) that Spitzer has railed against during the construction of his personal mythology.

His prosecution of various Wall Street baddies was highly selective. The fact that some of them deserved it is irrelevant. The real question is what was his motivation? IMNSHO, his motive was personal ambition, and that makes him very much like Rudy Giuliani (who also prosecuted Wall Street baddies).

As a citizen, I will not support someone simply because they appear to be on the same team. Integrity matters. Eliot Spitzer broke the rules knowingly. The only possible explanation is that either he thought he wouldn't get caught or that if he did, no one would care. Wrong on both counts. He's finished.

Democrats need to become the party of high standards when it comes to ethical behavior. The Republicans squawked about corruption until they got into power and then proved they were twice as efficient at generating scandals than the Democrats that preceded them.

If the Democrats want to stay in power, they need to hand the samurai sword to any of their own who disgrace their status as public servants and ask them to do the right thing -- quickly, publicly and with no qualifications or excuses. That's how the party will attain credibility on ethical grounds. Once Spitzer admitted to being involved, I don't think any Democrat should have said "wait and see," unless by that they meant "let's wait and see how Governor Spitzer will conduct himself concerning this serious lapse. I trust he will do the right thing."

Posted by: lobbygow on March 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM | PERMALINK

If he had used his own money, fine. Than it's between his ass and his wife's foot. Now its the wife's foot and the people's feet. I did like the bluecollarordie.com video about this though.

Posted by: D Samms on March 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM | PERMALINK

Spitzer's getting a raw deal. He probably didn't do a damn thing. SPitzer rocks

Posted by: Mike Reese on March 12, 2008 at 6:12 PM | PERMALINK

Spitzer didn`t know there are places to have chicks without the risk, take a damn jet and fly to an escorts resort, all-inclusive. Doing this at home can cost you a lot, dear.

Posted by: Bill C on March 15, 2008 at 5:37 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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