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March 17, 2008
By: Kevin Drum

OBAMA AND WRIGHT....Like most of the micro-flaps from the campaign trail this year, I haven't had a lot to say about the Jeremiah Wright "God damn America" fracas. Mainly this is because I just don't care very much about this kind of stuff, but it's also because I haven't really been able to make up my mind about it. In one way, Rev. Wright's incendiary comments (here) ought to hurt Obama more than those from some ordinary supporter since Obama's relationship with Wright is both long and deep. In another way, though, they should hurt him less. After all, which is worse: the very human desire not to humiliate a longtime friend because he occasionally crosses a line (Obama and Wright), or the cynical courtship of a powerful endorsement even though you already know the person in question has some odious public views (McCain and John Hagee)? I'd lean toward the latter, but, needless to say, nobody asked me and it appears that the rest of the country doesn't agree.

In any case, aside from the surprising fact that this affair has lasted longer than three news cycles, what's struck me the oddest about the whole thing has been the timing. Why now? Wright and the Trinity United Church of Christ have been on the radar screen for months, discussed on blogs, listservs, talk radio, and Fox News. So why did it suddenly become a national media storm now? It probably isn't the result of campaign oppo stuff, since that would have been a lot more effective and helpful a couple of months ago. And the sermons themselves date back years, so it's not as if the material just recently became available. So what triggered it?

And why didn't Obama have a more vigorous defense ready when it did hit? It's not as if he didn't know Wright was an issue just waiting to explode in his face. After all, he disinvited Wright from his campaign launch last year, and you don't do that unless you know the guy is going to raise questions that you'd just as soon not answer that day. But if you know that, then you also know you're going to have to answer those questions eventually. Every sign suggests that he should have been ready for this.

Unfortunately, neither of those questions is likely to ever get answered, but it does look as if Obama is finally going to address this controversy in a serious way. In a reprise of John Kennedy's big speech in 1960 declaring his independence from the pope, Obama plans a major speech on Tuesday about "not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign." Should be worth a listen.

Kevin Drum 7:57 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (147)
 
Comments

In which Kevin misses the point. Probably not accidentally.

Kevin, he sat his kids in front of that guy. Every Sunday. At the most impressionable age he set Wright up as an authority figure for them.

What does this say about Obama's beliefs and attitudes?

Posted by: am on March 17, 2008 at 9:01 PM | PERMALINK

It's my understanding that Wright is also effective in calls for social justice, and also effective at instilling senses of personal responsibility. Those sound like good influences on kids.

Posted by: richard on March 17, 2008 at 9:11 PM | PERMALINK

I avoid cable news and never see network newscasts. However, when at the gym after work one of the TV's is invariably tuned to CNN. While watching ESPN I'll glance over and I have to tell you Wolf has turned that nightly broadcast into all Wright all the time. Not sure if this goes for MSNBC, (surely it's true for FOX), but there's your answer. Despite the hypocrisy of it all and the utter irrelevance as relates to Obama's leadership and judgment those SOB's hammer this to death. WTF is it with these people? They're like the snobby clique in high school that wallowed in their contempt for the riff-raff (everyone else on the planet). Fuck'em.

Posted by: steve duncan on March 17, 2008 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINK

Did Obama go and seek out his public endorsement, knowing his views?

Also, it would be very interesting to know exactly what he said that is demonstrably false. I mean, I know that angry black man = !scary!, and that everyone *must praise USA! USA! USA!, but I don't know anything that he said is factually wrong. Certainly nothing along the lines of right-wing preachers comments about Katrina, Catholics, etc.

Posted by: John McCain: More of the Same on March 17, 2008 at 9:14 PM | PERMALINK

Let's see how long it takes before it is somehow Hillary's (teh devil!) fault. Over at TPM it only took about 3 posts.

Posted by: Bush Lover on March 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINK

What do you think it says, am?

Seriously, I'm curious. Do you think that it indicates that Obama hates America? Do you think that exposing children to religion is brain rot? Or what?

Obama's policies, speeches, voting record, and life story show zero indication that he hates America or white people or whatever it is you're fantasizing.

Whereas John Hagee finds John McCain's policies towards gays and the Middle East congenial to his delusions.

Posted by: Elvis Elvisberg on March 17, 2008 at 9:16 PM | PERMALINK
Kevin, he sat his kids in front of that guy. Every Sunday. At the most impressionable age he set Wright up as an authority figure for them.

And just exactly how representative of his sermons are the couple of excerpts that are getting so much attention now? And are his statements really all that bad, especially given their context? Methinks it's just a lot more scary for your average white person when they hear black men shouting something negative about America. Ron Paul was even more direct about saying the US brought 9/11 on itself and most people didn't bat an eye (and he was the actual candidate for the presidency).

Evangelical American was more or less fine when Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell blamed Liberals for 9/11 and gays for hurricane Katrina. That's far more vicious and divisive than Wright's comments about America's collective guilt for nuking two cities. But Wright said it raised voice and while black, so apparently it's far more shocking.

But it's no surprise - Bill, Hillary, and their subordinates have managed to make a lot of hay over the fact that Obama won a few states because of his overwhelming support among African-Americans (apparently they think black people's votes don't count as much as white people's, that black people are voting their emotions or voting their race rather than the issues... when Democrats have always been happy to defend receiving the same disproportionate level of support from African-Americans in elections... oh, and somehow almost NOBODY seems to have noticed that whites voted overwhelmingly in favor of Hillary in those same Deep South states... but apparently that's okay, because white people's votes matter and white people vote the issues... unlike black people).

If Obama were white, he would have long ago wrapped up the nomination. If Hillary weren't white, she wouldn't have received 75% of the white vote in the Deep South and would have been knocked out of the race long ago.

Hillary and her camp are destroying the Democratic party by alienating and demeaning arguably the single most important voting block for the party: African-Americans. The Clintons seem to regard the Democratic party as their own - it will either serve their interests or be destroyed in the process. Well done.

Posted by: Augustus on March 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM | PERMALINK

am, I assume you also think allowing a child to view FOX NEWS on a regular basis is grounds for an accusatory wagging of the finger and questioning of parental skills? I can't see as Brit Hume, Krauthammer, Barnes, Kondracke or Kristol constitute any less of a danger to impressionable minds than a firebrand African American preacher.

Posted by: steve duncan on March 17, 2008 at 9:19 PM | PERMALINK

courtesy Glenn Greenwald:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/17/wright/index.html

the Bush White House, in addition to consulting with Robertson, also consulted with the anti-American Jerry Falwell, including on the question of whom the administration should nominate to the Supreme Court. It even appointed a White House liaison for Falwell. When Falwell died, President Bush "said he was deeply saddened by Falwell's death, calling him 'a man who cherished faith, family and freedom.'"

Shouldn't we be very concerned about American children hearing our President praise an American-hating radical who believes that our country is a sick and wicked land that God wanted to be victimized by the 9/11 attacks? Again, the issue here is number (2) above, not number (1).


AND:

Frank Schaeffer, son of highly influential Religious Right figure Francis Schaeffer, writes:

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Posted by: jackifus on March 17, 2008 at 9:20 PM | PERMALINK

The center of any good church is not the pulpit, and the congregation knows better than to worship the preacher.

Posted by: chance on March 17, 2008 at 9:20 PM | PERMALINK

Is cable news still flogging this Wright story even after the Fed had to bail out Bear Stearns?

Pathetic.

Posted by: Lucy on March 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM | PERMALINK

This could be the most important speech Obama has to make in this campaign.

Why were they not more ready for this? That's a good question. My only supposition would be that the snippets we have seen are rare in Wright's sermons, and thus unexpected strung together out of context in the manner presented.

If it was such hate rhetoric, would Oprah Winfrey have been a regular at the church? Something doesn't make sense here.

Posted by: Manfred on March 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM | PERMALINK

Actually I have long suspected it was oppo (what were the chances both ABC and FOX had reports ready on the issue the same day).
Remember that when Wright broke we were at the end of the Ferraro cycle and right at the time it was verging on backlash territory for Hillary (Olberman).
My suspicions were confirmed with Mike Allen's retelling of how the story broke on Politico.com.
Go read it but the bottom line is that the Clinton campaign had been pushing HARD for reporters to revisit the story which they did not want to do because they, too, felt it had been covered earlier.
Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotes told in that article.

Posted by: Benjamin on March 17, 2008 at 9:23 PM | PERMALINK

*

Posted by: mhr on March 17, 2008 at 9:25 PM | PERMALINK

PS: It is not about anti-Hillary paranoia btw. I actually give them credit for that story which is, from their point of view, very potent and while I think it is silly stuff (does anyone really believe Obama is anti-American ?), it goes to show that they are right when they say they play dirty better than anyone else.
I don't like it but can't say it would be a bad thing if that oppo is successful. which I doubt it will be.

Posted by: Benjamin on March 17, 2008 at 9:25 PM | PERMALINK

@mhr

They didn't simply walk in the church.
Somehow Fox and ABC found out (how ?) about the church selling some of the sermons online *at the same time* (Coincidence right ?).
You are right on the core point though which is it is the videos that make the story more potent.

Posted by: Benjamin on March 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM | PERMALINK

It's funny (in the weird sense) that folks have been all distressed about the smear that Obama was a secret anti-american Muslim, and are now having a fit about him having an angry black Christian pastor....all while loudly insisting that this country doesn't have a religious litmus test for office. Of course not!

Posted by: Pat on March 17, 2008 at 9:33 PM | PERMALINK

There are large swaths of America who sit in front of preachers each Sunday who preach hatred of Catholics, eliminationist rhetoric of Muslims and gays, violence towards abortion providers and supporters and many other distinctly un-Christian positions.

A long time ago, the very smart Bill Clinton noted that the most segregated time of the week was Sunday mornings. And now you see the result of that. I challenge the readers of this blog to go spend a month at an African American church listening to the rhetoric. Anger at the social injustice, at its persistence, at the ways that Americans continue to be complicit in this are a staple. But, then, African American churches have been the place to address African American concerns since there has been America.

I do not say that what Reverend Wright said was factual. I do say that when you get a bunch of black folks in a room, you hear much the same. Reverend Wright's sin is that he is suddenly connected to a parishioner who is running for President, and there are STILL a ton of people in the USA who are quite uncomfortable with the spector of a very angry black man. An angry black man who has spent a lifetime trying to make right the promise of America for alot of folks via his ministry. An angry black man who fought to safeguard our religious and other freedoms by serving as a Marine and who is now being demonized for actually exercising his right to free speech; his freedom to practice his religion.

Quite unlike the treatment of McCain supporters Hagee (extreme Catholic bigotry) and Parsley (eliminationist rhetoric against Muslims), right? How is it that McCain is not being hounded into denouncing these fools whose intent is to truly hurt people?

You can probably go right back to the most segregated time of the week for your answer....

Posted by: cassandra m on March 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM | PERMALINK

What I can't figure is whether this is the worst possible time for the Wright stuff to come out, or the best possible time.

Worst: it's coming just as Obama truly is emerging as the inevitable nominee, when it's too late for the Democratic party to switch to Clinton and (for the sake of argument) Obama is finally revealed as unelectable. But early enough in the general election campaign that it colors the rest of the race against McCain, branding Obama as the scary black candidate.

Best: it's coming just as Obama truly is emerging as the inevitable nominee, when it's too late for the Democratic party to switch to Clinton. It's five weeks before the next primary vote, giving the story plenty of time to play out and die down, and it's early enough in the general election campaign that it becomes "old news" for the rest of the race.

Posted by: Alex F on March 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM | PERMALINK

You attend someone's church, you endorse all his views, is that the new standard?

Posted by: Boronx on March 17, 2008 at 9:40 PM | PERMALINK

That's funny as Pat mentions...

Well if there is any good side to this, Obama's middle name is probably not going to matter that much anymore: He undoubtedely has a Pastor! He believes in Jesus!

Jeremiah replaces Hussein.

Posted by: Manfred on March 17, 2008 at 9:41 PM | PERMALINK

I don't think Clinton had anything to do this stuff coming out now. It looks like a typical right-wing/Fox News hit job., but you do have to wonder why they'd release this now....perhaps to help Hillary win the nomination?? But even then, you'd think they'd launch it a little closer to Pennsylvania or other important primaries, so who the hell knows...

On another note, isn't it absurd how for a long time the question around Obama was "Is he black enough?" You had people claiming Bill Clinton was more black than him, people emphasizing that he is bi-racial or not an American black who descended from slaves etc. Now all of a sudden, woah, he hangs out with Wright, maybe he's too black.....

Posted by: Joe on March 17, 2008 at 9:41 PM | PERMALINK

What does this say about Obama's beliefs and attitudes?

And what does it say about your beliefs and attitudes that you can get so upset about the 3 words "God Damn America" yet say nothing about the incarceration of many young black men for crimes that whites get only probation and treatment?

Maybe the Rev has a point?

Posted by: tomeck on March 17, 2008 at 9:41 PM | PERMALINK

While I disagree with Kevin Drum somewhat comparing Rev. Wright to Il Papa, at the same time I have to reach across the aisle and admit that the liberals above do have a point. There really wasn't anything that bad in Wright's speeches, and there's nothing in there that's demonstrably false. In fact, right after he gets the nomination (or perhaps in October), Obama should hold a second speech with Rev. Wright right by his side, perhaps announcing the major role he'll play in the Obama administration just as he's played in his life for the past twenty years.

Posted by: The annoying LonewackoDotCom on March 17, 2008 at 9:43 PM | PERMALINK

Those steeped in the Evangelical Mega Churches find it hard to comprehend a pastor who is not a sociopathic tyrant, judging from my thankfully brief encounters with such "Men of God".

Posted by: Mr. Awful on March 17, 2008 at 9:43 PM | PERMALINK

There are a few options I see as to why the story dropped when it did, and there are three parties that may be behind it.

Hypothesis One: The Republicans did it. You'll note that the day the story moved George Bush said what could arguably be the single worst thing he's ever said in office, which thoroughly tarnished any hope he had at passing the Commander-in-Chief threshold. He said he wished he could be in Afghanistan, that a combat tour could be "romantic." Coming as it did on the five year anniversary of Iraq, the timing of such an idiotic comment could not have been worse. But hey, look at that scary black man, and like that, the story's over.

Hypothesis Two: Hillary did it. Obviously the Clinton campaign needed some distractions from the Ferraro fracas as one of their major fundraisers and someone actively stumping for Hillary was caught in an ever nastier web of racist comments. Once again, they needed a Samantha Power moment so they could say "Both sides are doing it!" And right on cue, they had the scary black man saying terrible things some years ago.

Hypothesis Three: Obama did it. Knowing that Hillary was sitting on these videos and that she was going to drop them the Friday before voting in Pennsylvania when they could do maximum damage with minimum time for rebuttal, Obama decides to seize the initiative, get them out there, deal with them and still have a solid month to campaign. This would also eliminate what the Clinton's thought was there best weapon against him. Note that also this weekend, Obama went through his other supposed major liability in tremendous detail with the Sun-Times, Rezko. Perhaps, this was his strategy to negate what he saw as his biggest vulnerabilities.

But I'm no Columbo. I just see three very interested parties each with their own motives, I don't know who done it. I would believe any of them were behind it, and I have to say I think the major beneficiary with the timing of it now is Obama. Had this come out earlier in the race where there were contests every week or every other week, he might not have had enough time to overcome it. I think he has plenty of time now. That and the meltdown of Wall Street and our economy is going to push this story out of the news coverage very quickly.

Posted by: kidkostar on March 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM | PERMALINK

mhr: The story still hasn't been on the front page of either the New York Times or the LA Times which are fulfilling their function as liberal mouthpieces.

lol, yeah, how dare they focus on smaller issues like the looming recession and war. Don't they know Drudge put a siren on this story?

Posted by: Joe on March 17, 2008 at 9:45 PM | PERMALINK

Who hasnt said such things when they recieve their tax bill?

God Damn America is not damning the people, which is America, but the government.

Posted by: Jet on March 17, 2008 at 9:48 PM | PERMALINK

In another way, though, they should hurt him less. After all, which is worse: the very human desire not to humiliate a longtime friend because he occasionally crosses a line...

Kev, bro, I hope you have a plan. If you got some corner you are trying to bait the wingnuts into, more power to you. But if you are throwing this shit out willy nilly...well, you disserve the bitchslapping coming like a freight train with no brakes. Remember, they are watching...

Posted by: elmo on March 17, 2008 at 9:53 PM | PERMALINK

Why is this happening now? A couple reasons (from my perspective):

1. The right is pushing this HARD and the media tends to follow their lead.
2. For the tv news, there's nothing until the PA vote and they'll talk about anything. This is just something that fits easily into their news template; divisive, race-based, Dem-bashing. They know this format and can talk for weeks about it.

Posted by: tom.a on March 17, 2008 at 9:56 PM | PERMALINK

All but calling your "longtime friend" the crazy uncle in the family attic isn't humilating him? Anyway, the problem isn't that Wright has been saying a few incendiary things recently, it's that he's been a radical and a racist his entire career, and that maybe that's part of what attracted Obama to him in the first place.

Posted by: Chris on March 17, 2008 at 9:59 PM | PERMALINK

Augustus wrote "Ron Paul was even more direct about saying the US brought 9/11 on itself"

NO! I've seen this all over the place. Ron Paul said that, as a practical matter, US policies made something like 9/11 more likely. That is an entirely rational and defensible point. Wright seems to be saying that the US morally deserved 9/11, because we bombed Japan. That's neither rational nor defensible.

Posted by: Chris on March 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM | PERMALINK

One thing is for sure, nobody thinks Obama is a Muslim anymore.

Seriously, I am not sure this isn't the best time for this issue to hit. Five weeks until the next primary. He has weeks to put the issue to bed. After it is put to bed it will be old news.

Obama has a chance to make a generational/religious Kennedy style speech. He has already given hints of tomorrow's talk. If he hits he will dominate the news cycle for the rest of the week.

Wright, and by implication Hillary, are captives of the culture wars of their youth. They are still fighting the racism and sexism of their youth. Obama is a beneficiary of the good that came from their mighty struggles. Time to move forward and consolidate the victories they achieved and bring America together.

Maybe this issue has come to forward right now because from the point of view of the Obama campaign this is the best time for it. Better now than in the middle of the fall election.

Posted by: Ron Byers on March 17, 2008 at 10:05 PM | PERMALINK

Heck Pat Robertson thought America [San Fran should be God Damned by bombs. Hagee thought gay parades GOD Damned America.

This is a non story served up by the controversy crowd.

Posted by: Jet on March 17, 2008 at 10:08 PM | PERMALINK

The Rev. Wright's comments were not very inflammatory. More people should verbally express their outrage about America's sins and examine the source of so many other people's hostility towards them. Sen. Obama, of course, has to distance himself, but there was nothing incorrect about what the Rev. Wright said. The article did not finish Wright's sermon, but I bet he mentioned something about forgiveness somewhere. While Obama distances himself from an iconoclast, McCain moves closer to Hagee, a real destroyer.

Posted by: Brojo on March 17, 2008 at 10:08 PM | PERMALINK
What does this say about Obama's beliefs and attitudes?

To me, it says "Obama's opponents will do anything to bring him down".

Posted by: Misc on March 17, 2008 at 10:17 PM | PERMALINK

I think Wright made a lot of salient points that don't sit well with people who live in denial about what a racist, violent and plutocratic society America continues to be. While the statement, "God damn America" is a little over the top, Wright was dead on correct about Hillary Clinton coming from a privileged background. She did. Live with it.

Conservatives will be making Obama apologize for comments his barber made, before you know it, since they don't want to talk about the stinking, cancerous mess they have left behind after controlling the American government for a decade.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on March 17, 2008 at 10:18 PM | PERMALINK

As it happens Hillary Clinton is a monster, Barack Obama is winning the Democratic primary because he is black, and America has it in for black people.

Questions?

Posted by: God on March 17, 2008 at 10:20 PM | PERMALINK

Obama has a chance to make a generational/religious Kennedy style speech.

I agree. He gets this right, the nomination is his. But if it comes off as fake, or plagiarized, or any of the other things that could make the speech come out half ass, He's doomed.

Posted by: elmo on March 17, 2008 at 10:22 PM | PERMALINK

It's not one sermon, it's at least six that were on Fox. In one of them he rails about the U.S. government creating the AIDS virus, by implication to destroy black America. This is somewhat understandably a suspicion some African Americans have, but for an educated man and a pastor to be promoting this idea to his congregation is pretty appalling.

Sean Hannity's people dug these up for a "special" of some sort he did on Fox over the weekend. ABC, not wanting to be left behind, followed suit on Monday. Hannity's been railing about Rev. Wright for months.

Can we dispense with the conspiracy theories now?

It doesn't matter what you and I and Kevin think about the substance of what Rev. Wright said or whether it's "fair" that McCain has gotten away with far worse with almost no media attention.

What matters is the use the Republican 527s are going to make of these tapes, combining them no doubt with Michelle Obama's thoughtless comment, in the general election campaign. Our almost certain Democratic presidential nominee has by his own bad judgment put the party and the country in the almost certain position of handing the White House over to John McCain. Hey, thanks a bunch, Barack!

Obama thought he could innoculate himself from all this forever simply by fondly characterizing his pastor as a "crazy uncle" several months ago. And now he's totally unbelievably denying he had any idea Rev. Wright held these views until day before yesterday.

Obama put himself-- and us-- in one hell of a box, and it's entirely of his own making. He's supposedly going to give a "major address" on race shortly, but it's not going to matter to gullible white GOP and independent voters when those 527 ads come down the pike in October.

The infuriating thing is that he wouldn't be in this position if he hadn't knocked himself out to avoid talking about the issue of race in America from the get-go in order to present himself as the "post-racial" personification of change.

I'm not an Obama supporter for a whole bunch of reasons, but I can hardly bear to think about 4 or 8 years of President McCain, so I will without question vote for Obama, since he looks like he'll be our nominee. But now I think there's only a vanishing chance we'll be able to avoid President McCain.

Posted by: gyrfalcon on March 17, 2008 at 10:23 PM | PERMALINK

There is no controversy - it's all made up by the McCain news media. What's odd, is that the pastor's that support McCain have given Obama cover on this issue.

McCain is the one who needs to explain why McCain went out of his way to fine pastor's that spout hate about America. Falwell and Roberston constantly blame America on all attacks that befall the U.S. - It's those gays and lesbians, and other sin that America does that makes God attack the U.S.

Kevin, it looks like, has fallen for this McCain trick - and parrots the same silly stuff about some Obama controversy about Wright.

Look at the bigger picture, Kevin.


Posted by: James on March 17, 2008 at 10:28 PM | PERMALINK

I see nothing wrong with any of Wright's statements. And I've always considered myself middle of the road. The fact is despite what 80% of the population believes America is not a nation that can do nothing wrong. We've arrogantly done a lot of bad things. It should be a national scandal that we can't talk about these things in polite company. Only by first admitting that we are not in fact without sin, do we have any hope of changing our ways. I find the fact that Obama's background means that he understands this a gut (not just academic) level, just how much of the world sees us as an very big plus. Unfortunately in order to pass muster with the majority of Americans who let national pride get in the way of critical self analysis, he has to hide from having had such experiences.

Posted by: bigTom on March 17, 2008 at 10:29 PM | PERMALINK

gyrfalcon

If this were an ordinary year I might agree, but this isn't an ordinary year. The Republicans have all but trashed their brand for a generation. There is a fear stalking the land that no amount of Republican double talk can touch.

McCain hasn't got a chance. I am truly shocked at how tone deaf truly is. The only chance he and the Republicans had was to separate themselves from GWB. He has embraced the most unpopular President since Herbert Hoover.

This year people wont just ignore the Republican 527 groups they will deride them.

What Obama is risking is his nomination not the election.

Posted by: Ron Byers on March 17, 2008 at 10:35 PM | PERMALINK

Questions?
Posted by: God

Yes, why do old folks lose their minds?

Posted by: Jet on March 17, 2008 at 10:36 PM | PERMALINK

Click here for the best tune ever written about our current government.

Posted by: Tunesmith on March 17, 2008 at 10:36 PM | PERMALINK

Only by first admitting that we are not in fact without sin, do we have any hope of changing our ways.

Hal a fuckin luya!

Posted by: elmo on March 17, 2008 at 10:37 PM | PERMALINK

As mentioned lots of times above, Kevin, you're kind of missing the point. The problem is that Obama doesn't appear to have been shocked or upset by Wright's comments. As a matter of fact his defense is that he wasn't aware of them. Since the guy clearly makes a habit of talking this way, it kind of sounds like Obama is saying he didn't find this stuff particularly memorable, let alone objectionable.

Which, if that is in fact the case, is a problem, because at least 58% of Americans -- me, for instance -- do.

Posted by: larry birnbaum on March 17, 2008 at 10:38 PM | PERMALINK

Could it be that people are pissed that they are still being accused of being racist when they are not.

That we are all trying hard to do the right thing and never get any acknowledgment of progress.

The message sounds as if Wright thinks is still 1930. It isn't, so stop speaking like it is. A half black man is on the verge of being a major candidate for President, ergo the U.S. has made great progress.

Stop acting like we haven't.

Posted by: AMW on March 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM | PERMALINK

The reason the Wright flap appeared at this point in the campaign is because Hillary desperately needed it. Obama slam-dunked Wyoming and Mississippi, leaving HRC staring at a very long 6-week interval until the Pennsylvania primary. That's what you call a politican's nightmare.

And then the bloggers started crunching the delegate numbers and made it clear that there is no mathematical possibility that Clinton can overcome Obama's lead. So, the only viable strategy for her to pursue is to tear Obama down and make him appear to be unelectable.

Posted by: vinnie's cousin on March 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM | PERMALINK

Three news cycles? The only news story here is that the mainstream media wants us to be as scared of black men who speak in robust voices and who have opinions as they are.

And if your opinion happens to be that sometimes the United States hurts innocent civilians when there is no excuse for it, and that it makes sense that people might get mad at us for it, then of course they want us to think "To hell with that."

Posted by: Swan on March 17, 2008 at 10:46 PM | PERMALINK

Larry, I take it you have never attended a Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson sermon condemning America for anyone of a number of sins. Clearly you have never been to a black church the Sunday after one of the young men has been killed resisting arrest, nor you have never heard a Catholic priest rail against abortion.

Larry, Sunday is Easter. Go to a Christian Mega Church, maybe the one lead by Rev. Hagee, the week after next. You might be surprised what you hear.

A lot of fundamentalist Christians I have talked to about Rev. Wright are scratching their heads trying to figure out what the controversy is all about.

Posted by: Ron Byers on March 17, 2008 at 10:47 PM | PERMALINK

Which, if that is in fact the case, is a problem, because at least 58% of Americans -- me, for instance -- do.
Posted by: larry birnbaum

Its not a fact larry, its your opinion and opinions are not facts. Its projecting your opinion of a person, upon said person, then believing it to be fact.

larry birnbaum seems to approve of McCains repudiation of Hagee, who did not find Hagee objectioable enough to distance himself from, yet agrees with Hagees view of catholocism, and if that is in fact the case my opinion is validated because thats my opinion wether the case is proven or not. Yet Obama did distance himself so it must be objectionable where as McCain did not.

Mental masturbation larry. Good luck selling that bit of shimmy.

Posted by: Jet on March 17, 2008 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

"About our firing on Miami Beach... I think the best way to put it is that it was what you might call "ill-timed". It happened on what they call in the newspaper business a "slow news day", and as a result got a lot more coverage than I think it deserved."

- Bob Newhart, "The U.S.S. Codfish".

Posted by: Splitting Image on March 17, 2008 at 10:55 PM | PERMALINK

OFF TOPIC:

Hmmm, turning the channels yesterday, someone sees a few seconds of a program on Book TV with some apparent Neocon asshole named Ronald Kessler. Then that person sees that the Wikipedia page on this dude, whose full name is Ronald Borek Kessler and who was born on December 31, 1943, is pathetic. So this unknown person edits, corrects, and expands the Wikipedia page on Kessler. This unknown person does it carefully, he does it fairly, he does it judiciously.

He carefully identifies criticisms in a "controversy" section as coming from "liberal" sources. He evens changes the identification of NewsMax from being "right-wing" to being "conservative," which seems more even-handed and less slanted--something that Ronald Kessler has never bothered to correct.

And now today there has been more material added, and Ronald Kessler has been a busy little bee, and it explodes onto (well, appears on) Talking Points Memo.

HAW-HAW-HAW. It's fun being a national news story. It's just like when I got attacked by NBC or MSNBC years ago for comments about Kenneth Starr.

(Well, little things amuse little brains.)

Posted by: Anon on March 17, 2008 at 10:56 PM | PERMALINK

Anon,

I saw that piece as well. Earlier Countdown called on the NY Times to fire Bill Kristol It seems Kristol picked up a non-fact from a Kessler post on Newsmax. Neither Kessler nor Kristol did any fact checking. The Times has fallen to a new low.

Posted by: Ron Byers on March 17, 2008 at 11:02 PM | PERMALINK

I once tried to read a book of Ronald Kessler's. Not only is he a neocon asshole, as busy Wiki editor Anon notes, but he is apparently wholly unacquainted with the English language, as was his editor. The book was virtually unreadable. Some "journalist."

Posted by: shortstop on March 17, 2008 at 11:11 PM | PERMALINK

"There really wasn't anything that bad in Wright's speeches, and there's nothing in there that's demonstrably false."

I suppose it's not "demonstrably" false that the CIA invented AIDS to kill black people, but it is a pretty nutty view that most reasonable people would consider to be false.

Posted by: jsr on March 17, 2008 at 11:19 PM | PERMALINK

The timing is interesting. From where I sat, the nomination was tipping away from Clinton when this video appeared. The Ferraro thing had hurt her. The polls were trending towards some of Obama's biggest leads ever. And the state of the race was becoming clarified as it has not up until now: namely that Clinton had zero shot at catching up on elected delegates + that the supers would not overturn the elected delegate lead without cause ==> Clinton's only shot was to make Obama unelectable. But once that's in the open, her candidacy is over. (I think Chait put this out most clearly, but the basic insight was starting to spread). Clinton had to be getting serious pushback from insiders for the negativity (Ferraro) and the increasing tendency to say the emperor has no clothes on the rationale for her continuing her candidacy.

Maybe not her. But she's the big beneficiary. And she needed it now. Why wouldn't she have pulled the trigger earlier? Cause this is a very dangerous trigger. If Obama loses the nomination for this, there will be hell to pay in the African-American community. Indeed, if this metastasizes as it might, our country is looking at a pretty serious meltdown. Because if you are not following, this video is unleashing an amazing torrent of Obama hatred all over the web. And I can only imagine what that looks like to African-Americans.

The Republicans would have held the video until the fall. Unless they are extraordinarily vested in a Clinton nomination.

Although the timing is right for an Obama reveal, the medium is all wrong for it. That video is edited to make this out to be much worse than it really is. Whoever spliced together that string of moments wanted a maximal shot at provoking the outpouring of revulsion in middle America that it has produced. It's almost certainly not a fair representation of Wright or TUCC. So I don't see the Obama camp as being behind the promulgation of this video.

The roads lead back to Clinton, I'm afraid. Indeed, I'd say she's the most likely bet to win the presidency right now. Unless Obama can give a very good speech, the tape has given a lot of latent racism an excuse to come roaring out to the surface. If his speech can't defuse it, there's a pretty good shot that he'll appear patently unelectable within a week or two. Throw in an economic meltdown and you have Clinton sailing past McCain to the white house. The only thing that can stop her is the reaction if it is seen that she has won because Obama could not overcome a deep-seated American racism that only needed this video to be revealed as uncontrovertibly just below the surface.

For my part I find it very sad. The depth and breadth of the vitriol provoked by this story in the comments section of any MSM story on the subject is really depressing.

Posted by: Marvel on March 17, 2008 at 11:20 PM | PERMALINK

For a rational electorate, this Wright controversy wouldn't be an issue. But then you could say the same about the swift boat stuff on Kerry. The fact is that McCain can defeat Obama with this stuff.

He can't so easily defeat Hillary -- after all these years in public life, she has no skeletons left in her closet.

I'm sure Hillary's done lots of bad things. It may even be true that she's a monster. But she's our monster. As always, vote for the smooth-talking liar who will put through at least some left-of-centre policies. That's the best we can do in national elections.

Posted by: otherpaul on March 17, 2008 at 11:20 PM | PERMALINK

This affair is as much a mystery as it is a scandal -- why would Obama, who in every other time and aspect of his life has shown not the slightest trace of black racism or paranoid extremism, hang with this guy for so long?

I'm beginning to suspect a possible answer -- partly on the basis of Wright's original "Audacity of Hope" sermon ( http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/for-the-record.html ). It's a damn good sermon on an extremely important spiritual and moral subject -- namely, the importance (repeatedly emphasized by Chesterton) of never giving up on the intention to try and improve this world, even when ALL the evidence from this world says that your endeavor is utterly hopeless -- and in which I could not find one word I disagreed with politically or can regard as extreme. I suspect that Obama had a genuine, honest-to-God "born-again" spiritual experience as a result of his first encounters with Wright; those happened at just about the time that Obama (given his early Chicago political experiences, as described by the Chicago Tribune) could be starting to get cynical and despairing about the possibility of ever really improving the world at all, even a small local patch of it. And I know from personal experience how extraordinarily emotionally powerful the born-again experience can be, no matter from who or what it comes; I had one at age 15 as a result of reading C.S. Lewis, and while I soon departed from Christianity I remain eternally grateful to the man.

Now, for a VERY long time after that, Obama apparently had no strong intention of ever running for any office outside his local neighborhood in Chicago. If you read the biographies of him, it becomes clear that he got more or less backed into that position. As a state senator from his district he rapidly gained in popularity statewide (even among the state Fraternal Order of Police, despite the fact that he successfully bucked them and the Democratic governor on getting a requirement to videotape all interrogations!) It was apparently only around 2000 that he started to seriously consider running for statewide office at all, and even after he got elected US Senator he didn't originally plan to run for President until 2012 -- he got more or less nudged into doing that early, as well.

I suspect that he stuck with Wright -- and stuck with him, and stuck with him -- for years despite his belief that in many respects Wright had a screw loose, out of both personal friendship and a feeling of genuine personal gratitude to the man for enormously improving his own emotional and spiritual outlook on life. And when he started to consider running for anything other than local office, he figured it was too late to detach himself from Wright and his church -- he'd been associated with it for so long that he would probably get tarred with that association even if he did quit at that late date, and as I say his early plans even at that point seem to have been limited to running for US Senator, in which it wouldn't make as much difference as in a Presidential run.

As I say, it's only a theory. But I think it explains a genuine mystery as well as anything I've seen so far.

Posted by: Bruce Moomaw on March 17, 2008 at 11:23 PM | PERMALINK

To the notion that this is somehow a Clinton operation, why wait until she is so far behind that many people think she has lost already? That makes no sense whatsoever, if her side was going to use something that has this level of potential to derail him why not do it when it could have a much greater impact on the race instead of when 80% of the States have already been heard from? Get real people. I find the idea that everything that goes wrong for Obama is somehow the Clinton's fault more than a little pathetic to be honest. One of the things that most annoyed me back in January here was the massive amount of telepathy people had because they were mind reading the Clintons and then projecting that as proven fact and if anyone questioned it they were being foolish/ignorant/naive/etc. Now I see that happening again with something that is clearly no one's fault but Obama's.

Obama KNEW Wright was a potential problem, as Kevin noted in his post and I did the other day in a comment I left in the proxy thread, he kept him away from the announcement of his Presidential candidacy because his sermons could be "a bit rough". This shows an awareness by Obama that at least some of Wright's language was politically sensitive to offensive for his candidacy, especially given his core message of being beyond the typical black politics/anger of the 60s and being the new post partisan candidate. So why did he not start disassociating from Wright from the moment he started this race instead of when it started to cause him political problems last week?

Wright is not just another preacher making extreme statements, he is the man Obama credited with bringing him to Jesus, as a powerful influence on his growth as a person over the past couple of decades, someone he has spoken very highly of and as his mentor and used many references from for his writings and speeches. This is a man whose relationship to Obama in Obama's own descriptions is highly close, personal, a mentor, long term and nearly on a par with being a spouse (calling someone like your uncle is comparing him to a first degree relationship which in my books is only exceeded by spouses) and who was a part of his campaign staff (regardless of how much he was or not doing he held the position) until this all broke loose. That is what makes this such a problem for Obama, and it is Obama who failed to recognize the political sensitivity of this or worse thought he could manage to keep this from causing him problems same as he has managed to have his campaign paint the Clinton side as race baiters early on once he lost NH.

This is also something that when combined with his refusal to wear an American flag pin, place his hand over his heart for pledge of allegiances and his wife's lack of pride in America until her husband was running for President successfully can be shown to show that for all Obama claims to be not in agreement with Wright that in truth he is. Whether that is actually the case or not will be irrelevant, as one of the oldest rules in politics is that perception is AT LEAST as important as factual reality in how a candidate is perceived. That makes Wright a major problem and more than simply being endorsed by a controversial preacher, this is a major long term close relationship we are talking about.

It also goes to Obama's judgment in both that relationship and how he has handled the issue once he started running for President. His first action was to try to downplay the connection, just like he tried with Rezco by claiming in a debate that relationship was a few hours of legal work when it was a 17 year friendship as he has now admitted publicly in the last week to a Chicago paper. Then he tried to throw him under the bus, and now it looks like now that he sees that won't work he is trying yet another approach, how again is this any sort of "new politics"? Obama is running his campaign on his self proclaimed good judgment and his ability to move beyond race, Wright undercuts both of those themes/premises for him, which is why this has the ability/potential to be fatal in the GE for him as I also noted the other day.

This is exactly the sort of thing I was worried about in January when I worried about what he would have to offer if his message was undercut/neutralized as well as what I saw as insufficient vetting. One of the staples of American politics is how aggressive it is; indeed it took me a long time to fully understand just how much so it was because I come from a far less combative political environment here in Canada. I also learned that in American politics whining/complaining about things being unfair not only tends to not work but tends to work against the side saying so, because it shows a lack of toughness which in the American political psyche is clearly important which is why the GOP has done so well to exploit by painting the Dems as weak whiny unserious on national security and therefore unable to be trusted for the past 30 years now. What Obama now represents plays to that frame very well, and the way his campaign successfully smeared the Clintons as race baiters to racists will come back as proof of how he will do and say anything, and when combined with Wright will be a godsend for the GOP.

If they can turn Kerry's war record against him like they did to defeat him with where there was nothing to back any of it up with this is a gold mine, regardless of how fair or unfair it actually is. American federal politics is a very nasty arena and for all the comments I hear about the American people being tired of it I have heard those for decades now and yet the GOP still have held the WH except for WJC and Carter who got in more because of the fallout from Watergate than anything else IMHO. I am not sure there is going to be any way for Obama to effectively neutralize this, and I think it is going to be an uphill battle for him to weaken it enough to not cost him the GE if he gets the nomination. It will be interesting to see what he says tomorrow, although if he takes that opportunity to try and attack Clinton with I think he may find it majorly backfiring on him because now that he looks like a racial polarizing candidate with the latest primary results from MS it will not have the same effect as it did in January/February IMHO.

There is also the unpleasant reality that he has run away from race and racial issues at every turn in this nomination race until the Wright affair blew up in his face, there is a real chance it will be seen as nothing but damage control and nothing more, and if he tries to get too pious on the issue it may also backfire for him. The reality of how racially charged this race has already become in no small part because of his campaign's actions since NH and his refusal to address racial issues directly until this Wright blowup undercuts his credibility on the topic I suspect to many that are not already Obama supporters/fans, and may ever undercut his support among those early supporters. He may also pull it out and have a miracle recovery, the possibility exists, but I suspect it is not a large one, but if he can manage to deal effectively with this then he will have shown remarkable political skill (this is of course if the media do not decide to act as his surrogates again as they have throughout most of this nomination race since the voting started until SNL came back and mocked them for it) and that should help him for the GW despite this fallout.

Keep in mind a core strength of Obama's in dealing with crisis and controversy in this race has been his word/explanation is rarely if ever questioned and taken at face value (his supposedly being such a different kind of politician and all that) while his opponents word on anything controversial/damaging to their side have been nothing but questioned, especially in the case of HRC. It is not typical for people (especially Americans and particularly regarding Dem politicians over the past few decades) to trust the word of politicians seeking the top offices of their nations without question, and this has been an enormous boon to Obama, but if that is not available to him in this matter and from this for the rest of the race I would argue he has lost a critical tool he needs to win the GE with.

Posted by: Scotian on March 17, 2008 at 11:28 PM | PERMALINK

Having Wright as your pastor and treating wingnut Republicans with a (seemingly undeserved) measure of respect: two sides of the same coin.

Obama can't say this, but we can all say this on his behalf: the stuff Wright says isn't half as poisonous as the things that come out of the mouths of men like Robertson, Hageel, and Coulter; nevertheless, the latter haven't been expelled from the Republic; so why should Wright? Nor have their casual politician friends suffered from the relationship; so why should Obama?

If you're going to grab one of the third-rails of American politics, you might as well grab two, of opposite polarity, and let the currents empower you.

Posted by: lampwick on March 17, 2008 at 11:32 PM | PERMALINK

Hillary has no skeletons left in her closet, someone says? Why shroud those tax returns in secrecy, then? Good god, my senator has nothing in her closet but skeletons and yellow pantsuits. I'm afraid one morning she's going to get dressed without turning on the light and end up walking out to a press conference wearing nothing but bones.

I will read Scotian's full post once Kevin agrees to increase his font size from 6 points or whatever it is to something more legible.

Posted by: lampwick on March 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM | PERMALINK

After all, which is worse: the very human desire not to humiliate a longtime friend because he occasionally crosses a line (Obama and Wright), or the cynical courtship of a powerful endorsement even though you already know the person in question has some odious public views (McCain and John Hagee)?

What a jackass!

So, if McVain gave Hagee over $20K in a single year, and also abjectly kissed his ass for 20+ years (married his wife in Hagee's church, Baptized his children in Hagee's church, titled his autobiography after a "Hagee sermon", called Hagee his "spiritual mentor, had Hagee on his campaign staff, referred to Hagee as merely his "crazy uncle", etc.)- I'm quite sure all you "leftists" would surely excuse this "longtime friendship"?


Posted by: fletch on March 17, 2008 at 11:46 PM | PERMALINK

For those of you, who like me, had never heard of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, here is a good description of the 'largest' United Church of Christ congregation (8,000) in the country by Martin Marty at the U of Chicago. Wright's sermons are (were) broadcast on TV in the Chicago area. (Shouldn't have been too much of a problem to find those videotapes.) First a quote, then a link:

"Trinity reorients. Wright and company have had tussles with more traditional members and, at times, some in the UCC. I've known "Jerry" Wright since his student days, have often agreed and disagreed with him, and have found him never to be a preacher of peace when there is no peace — but "walkin' the talk" for him is also a message of peace."

Keeping the Faith at Trinity United Church of Christ

Posted by: nepeta on March 17, 2008 at 11:48 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, if you research this you will find out that Hannity and the Fox News cabal originated this Wright "scandal" and pushed it hard. CNN and others took the ball and ran with it. Hillary was only a beneficiary.

Now think about why: The Republicans want Clinton as the nominee.

Posted by: bob on March 17, 2008 at 11:52 PM | PERMALINK

All that's happened here is that Republicans have figured out how to make race the major issue, without having to come out in the open with it.

Posted by: Alex on March 18, 2008 at 12:03 AM | PERMALINK

Christopher Hitchens had it right: Religion Poisons Everything.

Posted by: Fred from Pescadero on March 18, 2008 at 12:06 AM | PERMALINK

Just speculation but: Obama was attracted to this church when he was a young man struggling with his bi-racial identity and it helped him identify as black; and because it was an asset in local politics.

The problem with it is Obama wants to play a double game with race. Use the "teachings" of his pastor when it helps him gain black votes: the litany with the same ole okey doke, hoodwinked and bamboolized with reference to the Clintons just being the same old bad white people keeping the black folks down; or my personal favorite, Hillary's tears if you dissect them properly, prove her racism; but he claims to be above it all, and to be the victim of race trash talk, when it suits him. It's about time this double game has been revealed.

As for it all being Hillary's fault of course it is. And if it's not Hillary's fault it must be Bill's. Isn't everything?

Posted by: Amelia on March 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK

Obama has a chance tomorrow to revive his chance to become president (now, very low) and, more important, do something very good for the country.

He needs to express his love and appreciation for Reverend Wright, but reject Wright's presentation of black liberation theology as too often a hostile, vicious, anti-white and at times anti American concept. The way for him to do it is to accept personal responsibility for being unable to see it, blinded by his love of Wright and the good parts of Wright and the Trinity Church. He should apologize for being blind to it and offer a stirring call for blacks to leave that baggage behind - endorsing the good hearts of most non-black americans and, regardless of whether it is fair or not, placing the burden upon blacks to step up and help overcome any racial hostility still in American society by love of this country and their fellow citizens. It would do a world of good for the country for a person of Obama's stature to shine a light on the problem of black leadership like Reverend Wright.

I doubt that he will do anything close to it. I wish he would not try to calculate what is considered best for him politically and focus entirely on what is best for the country (which actually would benefit him politically).

I am pessimistic because so far he has been at best been parsing in trying to duck responsiblity for it. Everything he has said so far has been very calculating -- "I have not personally heard these particular comments while seated in the pews," "out of context," "cherry picking," and how Wright is a former marine and retiring. He even has tried to blame the people pointing out the problem as causing racial problems.

On the plus side for him, the maintstream media loves him and will give him a good grade on his speech so long as he gives them a few good soundbites. But the media cover for him will not hold up among the general electorate in today's 24/7 cable and internet age. He has to step up and really say something of significance.

Posted by: brian on March 18, 2008 at 12:10 AM | PERMALINK

Now think about why: The Republicans want Clinton as the nominee.

Close. The Republicans don't want a quick resolution to the democratic race. The also want to weaken the winner.

Posted by: B on March 18, 2008 at 12:10 AM | PERMALINK

After all, which is worse: the very human desire not to humiliate a longtime friend because he occasionally crosses a line (Obama and Wright), or the cynical courtship of a powerful endorsement even though you already know the person in question has some odious public views (McCain and John Hagee)?

No one asked me either but I can't see how the latter isn't far more cynical, and soulless. The latter was for VOTERS - period. I don't think I could have stayed in Wright's church but I don't attend church very often, period. I think it's understandable he'd had a strong attachment to the man who brought to Christianity.

I also think he, or someone in his campaign, should have seen this coming, a long time ago. This is a society where talking heads yap about a $400 haircut or a scarf Pelosi wore for DAYS.

But it does seem like an excuse for attacking him from people who already don't like him, for whatever reason. (The screamers at "leftists" help back up thaty idea, thank you very much..)

In the scheme of things, can we really afford to spend so much time on such matters?

Posted by: T4TN on March 18, 2008 at 12:14 AM | PERMALINK

Does anyone still read brian's posts?

Posted by: bonds in seconds on March 18, 2008 at 12:14 AM | PERMALINK

I am struck by some of the inability to understand this issue on this site. It is obvious that many of the commenters know nothing of religion or what "membership" in a church is all about. It is not membership in a professional organization, It is involvement with people who share deep, moral feelings.

Kevin, by even comparing the Obama-Wright relationship to the Hagee-McCain relationship you either are doing major spin or showing extreme stupidity. Your choice.

Wright is not some guy with incendiary views who endorsed Obama, or even a guy that Obama courted for an endorsement. He is the one Obama calls his mentor. Obama has claimed for 20 years that he has depended on him for spiritual guidance.

Let's face it. The "Hagee" non-issue is just a smokescreen to deflect this real problem. McCain did not relate to Hagee on a parishoner-pastor level.

Given the close association ( married him, baptized his kids, was his pastor ) that Obama had to Wright over a very long span we are faced with a chilling choice.

Either Obama endorses these views, or he has walked a lie for 20 years for political advantage in a certain community. These views of Wright are not close to mainstream. They belong to the American hating crowd. They definitely do not line up with the Obama that has been presented to the people as a candidate.

So the question is, "Who is the real Obama?" If he truly is for racial healing and unity, he could have not spent his time in this man's church. His soul would have felt polluted by the pouring out of hate from the pulpit.

By choosing to fellowship in this church for such a long time, and yet presenting himself as the "unity" candidate, he has demonstrated that he is duplicitous in his very core. Either he is an empty soul who has no true center and can bend to every whim, or he is an America hater who has well-disguised it in order to be presentble.

This issue is not about, some politician's play of the people. It is about that we may elect as POTUS someone of no real substance. That is scary.

Posted by: John Hansen on March 18, 2008 at 12:18 AM | PERMALINK

You know...

Kevin, by even comparing the Obama-Wright relationship to the Hagee-McCain relationship you either are doing major spin or showing extreme stupidity. Your choice.

If someone is as deliberately insulting as this is, why should anyone take the rest of it seriously? Have people lost the ability to disagree without attacking?

And you make very limited choices in the rest of your post. It doesn't seem like the best way to persuade people.

Posted by: T4TN on March 18, 2008 at 12:26 AM | PERMALINK

bonds,

you'd apparently be surprised to konw that there are a number of people on this blog who are willing to read my posts and to engage in a respectful and intelligent dialouge. others are close minded and unwilling to engage respectfully on the merits.

Posted by: brian on March 18, 2008 at 12:29 AM | PERMALINK

...what's struck me the oddest about the whole thing has been the timing. Why now? Wright and the Trinity United Church of Christ have been on the radar screen for months...

Maybe because questions about Obama's faith have recently been much louder and insidious. Which caused some to reexamine of the basis of his faith, whether in an attempt to defend or find fault. Which invariably led back to Wright (who had recently released a video/audio compedium of sermons?) Not to mention that when the issue last received much press over a year ago, Obama had just begun his campaign and was not the front-runner.

Posted by: has407 on March 18, 2008 at 12:30 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for the comment T4TN. Maybe I should pull back a little on the arrogance. But I just think that Kevin, is smarter than to think that the McCain-Hagee non-relationship compares in any way to Obama's 20 year relationship with his mentor and pastor. It just does not make sense.

Posted by: John Hansen on March 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM | PERMALINK

Good analysis by Shelby Steele (and I think it also supports that Obama could turn it around with acceptance of his responsibility for being blind to the problem):

"Thus, nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable. His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").

How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?

But now the floodlight of a presidential campaign has trained on this usually hidden corner of contemporary black life: a mindless indulgence in a rhetorical anti-Americanism as a way of bonding and of asserting one's blackness. Yet Jeremiah Wright, splashed across America's television screens, has shown us that there is no real difference between rhetorical hatred and real hatred.

No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself."

Posted by: brian on March 18, 2008 at 12:43 AM | PERMALINK

Concern troll, quoting Uncle Tom.

Posted by: bob on March 18, 2008 at 12:51 AM | PERMALINK

Only after I considered this for a while did the thought cross my mind that makes the difference.

Wright did not endorse Obama.

No for 20 years, Obama has endorsed Wright.

That in a nutshell is the issue.

Posted by: John Hansen on March 18, 2008 at 12:52 AM | PERMALINK

the stuff Wright says isn't half as poisonous as the things that come out of the mouths of men like Robertson, Hageel, and Coulter; nevertheless, the latter haven't been expelled from the Republic; so why should Wright?

Short answer is, he shouldn't. But he ain't white. I am an ardent Hillary supporter, obviously, but shit is what it is. I want race to be a non factor, but I'm a fool. I like being a fool, though.

Barack, you got your stage tomorrow, make it count you sum-bitch. Because if you knock it out of the park, we go a long way to putting this shit behind us. If you whiff, we lose decades of progress...

Posted by: on March 18, 2008 at 12:53 AM | PERMALINK

Hansen, I have to disagree with you that bringing ip McCain's courting of religious bigots doesn't make sense. It makes sense for me. But I'm not saying I own the answer. It make not make sense for others - I thought Drum made that clear, also.

I'm not black, my experience with black churches is limited. I know the services tend to be much more passionate than what I'm used to. So there's a cultural divide here and I'm not willing to rush to judgment about Obama and this relationship.

And frankly, I don't understand why the news is nonstop about Obama and McCain gets a pass for seeking out the endorsement of a really outrageous religious bigot. There's no emotional bond there. McCain used to reject these kinds of people. Now he was vying with Huckabee over their endorsements. There's no personal attachment as I said - it's about votes and it seems cynical as all hell to me.

I agree Obama hasn't handled it very well so far. But I don't get the view that's it's overwhelmingly important on the face of it. I dislike the clips I've heard of Wright, but surely there's more to him that just bombastic statements.

Posted by: T4TN on March 18, 2008 at 12:54 AM | PERMALINK

I read the same web as the rest of you. I haven't seen the outpouring of anti-Obama hate some of you keep talking about. Outside the media keeping it going to pump ratings and the usual wingnut suspects, just where is this giant anti-Obama surge? Near as I can tell he went up in the polls just today.

Posted by: Ron Byers on March 18, 2008 at 12:55 AM | PERMALINK

From Obama's comments tonight, it looks like he is going to cover enough of the kind of issues that I suggested he needed in order to at least get a good review from the friendly media - now if he would only add acceptance of his own blindness, it would be a home run:

"I think we’ve got to talk about it,” he added. “I think we’ve got to process it. But we’ve got to remind ourselves that what we have in common is far more important than what’s different and that if we’re going to solve any of these problems, we’ve got to come together and bridge our differences in ways that we just have not bridged them before.”

“To the extent that, you know, the conversation over the last couple of days has been dominated by some stupid statements that were made by Rev. Wright, but also caricatures of Rev. Wright and Trinity United Church of Christ — which, by the way, is part of a denomination that is overwhelmingly white — you know, I think that that has distracted us from the possibilities of moving beyond some of these arguments,” Obama said.

“I think that, you know, when you look at somebody like a Rev. Wright who grew up in the ’50s or ’60s, his experience of race in this country is very different than mine,” Obama told Ifill. “Now, we benefit from that past. We benefit from the difficult battles that were taking place. But I’m not sure that we benefit from continuing to perpetuate the anger and the bitterness that I think, at this point, serves to divide rather than bring us together. And that’s part of what this campaign has been about, is to say, ‘Let’s acknowledge a difficult history, but let’s move forward in a practical way to get things done.’”

Posted by: brian on March 18, 2008 at 12:59 AM | PERMALINK

T4TN - The news is non-stop about Obama/Hillary because there is only suspense in the Democratic primary. No one is fighting McCain right now.

For better or for worse, McCain will not get much coverage right now.

Posted by: John Hansen on March 18, 2008 at 12:59 AM | PERMALINK

John Hansen: Either Obama endorses these views, or he has walked a lie for 20 years

Wow, that's the lamest false dichotomy I've read in a long time.

Possibility three: Obama understands certain controversial views held by his pastor but either does not endorse them or frames them differently.

Posted by: Creamy Hussein Goodness on March 18, 2008 at 1:02 AM | PERMALINK

Maybe it's just me..Shelby Steele?

Good God. Thomas Sowell and Armstrong Williams were busy?

Posted by: T4TN on March 18, 2008 at 1:03 AM | PERMALINK

And why didn't Obama have a more vigorous defense ready when it did hit? It's not as if he didn't know Wright was an issue just waiting to explode in his face.

(1) Obama didn't know that Wright made some statements which were off the charts: (a) Obama has been candid about his knowledge of Wright's statements; and (b) he was naive for not doing a better job of due dilligence.

(2) Obama knew that Wright made some statements which were off the charts: (a) Ohama has been less than candid about his knowledge of Wright's statements; and (b) he was naive in thinking Wright would fade away.

I imagine it's probably some of both, and you can draw any number of conclusions about his suitability for being POTUS from that. I'll reserve judgement until Obama has his say tomorrow.

Posted by: has407 on March 18, 2008 at 1:07 AM | PERMALINK

The news is non-stop about Obama/Hillary because there is only suspense in the Democratic primary.

It's reminding a lot of non-stories that get close to 24/7 coverage but I'm reminded particularly of the madness for the Gary Condit scandal. That was the sensationalized story of the day until 9/11 blew it out of the water.

The seems like that kind of "what the hell were we thinking..giving so much attention to something so insignificant?!" moment. I have questions and I wonder why Obama seems to have to caught flat-footed. But I keep thinking..this is the man who brought Obama to Christianity. I don't think that element's power can be dismissed or ignored.

Personally, I'd much rather hear what the candidates have in mind for China or for the bank bailout situation. Or any number of other issues.

Posted by: T4TN on March 18, 2008 at 1:13 AM | PERMALINK

The race speech is a mistake. Obama should instead make a speech on the economy. And another speech on the economy next week too.

It's the over riding issue of most elections and in this one especially it is even more dominant. He needs to connect his theme of change to bread and butter reality and jobs. Race/shmace, if he can be seen as Barack "Jobs and lower oil prices" Obama, no one will care about Wright or any of that.

He needs to stop bickering with Hillary. Stop treating it like a "pick me, the other person sucks!" contest and start talking about the concerns of the voters. Not just once but consistent