I was sorry that Obama ultimately let them off the hook by saying it wasn't their fault, they were just left to clean up the mess.

It's hard to imagine another field with standards set so low that these responses would be remotely acceptable.

No benchmarks achieved?

I was struck by the pure stupidity of McCain's comment: "withdrawal of our forces, regardless of the consequences, would constitute a failure of political and moral leadership." His alternative: perpetual U.S. military involvement in Iraq regardless of the circumstances. Sorry, but that is niether political nor moral leadership, not to mention no way to fight Al Queda or advance U.S. interests.

honestly, kevin.

this is pure 'media gotcha' that they played.

and which you are playing right now.

hope you have fun....

What was it McCain said back when....

New York Times of Aug. 19, 1990: “If you get involved in a major ground war in the Saudi desert, I think support will erode significantly. Nor should it be supported. We cannot even contemplate, in my view, trading American blood for Iraqi blood.”

McFlip.

When asked by Senator John Warner whether Iraq was making us safer Petraeus kept hedging and stated that it would ultimately be up to history. Not very comforting.

He doesn't want to end up looking like an idiot.

Obama is a constitutional lawyer, and it shows. What a fine cross-examination!

These assholes (Petraeus and Crocker) have cause and effect mixed up. Iraq is not going to be unstable if we leave. Iraq is unstable because we are there!

If you think Obama was impressive in the hearings, you have some pretty low standards. He basically gave a campaign speech (they even allotted him more time so he could remind everyone about the "Speech"). Self-serving and cocky. Ugh.

Add that to his recent fund-raising speech in CA, where he basically said "I don't need no stinking foreign advisors because I'm so uniquely qualified" was arrogance beyond the pale.

Double Ugh.

Unlike becca, I was quite impressed by Obama's approach. Not a lick of grandstanding, simply creating a well constructed frame regarding "what does success look like" and asking pointed questions within the frame. He clearly played off the lines of questioning by a number of other members of the Foreign Relations Committee (Dem and Repub), and worked to elicit answers that Petraeus and Crocker were dodging. Overall, the afternoon hearing was very sharp.

Hey Kevin, your Crocker and hypotheticals observation made John Cole laugh out loud.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=10074

Petraeus is willing to sell his hypothetical soul for personal gain. He wants to be chief of staff. He can not realize that he is riding a dead horse.

Crocker's weak response its "hard and complicated."

Waaaaaaaaaa! Who knew that running the world could be so gosh darn tough?

Can we get some grownups in charge yet?

"Add that to his recent fund-raising speech in CA, where he basically said "I don't need no stinking foreign advisors because I'm so uniquely qualified" was arrogance beyond the pale."

I am completely baffled by this attitude. After years of Democrats doing somersalts to prove they can be as tough as Republicans on national security, which has led to the biggest foreign policy disaster of my lifetime, we finally have a Democrat who wants to "change the mindset that got us into war". Of course his critics say he lacks foreign policy heft, even though he has more foreign policy experience than either of the last two Presidents had when they were elected.
Is Obama supposed to agree with them just so as not to look "arrogant"?

Via Digby & Spencer Ackerman:

Crocker, in an impossible political position -- give the correct answer and humiliate the Bush administration; give the administration's answer and look like a fool -- dodged as much as he could. Then Biden forced him down. Crocker: "I would therefore pick Al Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border."

I am completely baffled by this attitude.

Way too civilized. Becca is an asshole who characterized Obama and then criticized the strawman he created.

I love the way Obama moves serenely above the opposition.

In world of politicians who talk before they think, who seem to have attention-deficit and hyperactive disorders, who can't listen to anyone else because they're so busy yapping their mouths - well, Obama is a breath of fresh air. Calm, cool, thinks before he speaks, actually listens to people.

Dang I HATE that "I won't answer hypotheticals" BS.

You cannot think or act in any very complex way at all without dealing in hypotheticals.

What people mean when they say I won't/don't answer /deal in hypotheticals is:

I do not want to answer THAT hypothetical

The need to puff up Barack Obama has clearly exceeded Bushian proportions. He asked a question? My God, God spoke! The choir of angels appeared, God annointed his God. Please, Obama's questioning was average, no better or worse than anyone else. I know Bush has been an unqualified disaster but do we have to now go through Obama inflation as well?

This is the problem with the current situation: pulling out now admits that the whole mess was an unmitigated mistake, and that admission is unacceptable to our "leaders," while the ability to obtain some positive outcome that would let us pull out with at least the pretense of it all having been worthwhile is unachievable. The result is a perfect cycle of inertia.

OT, but related, courtesy of The Guardian...looks like an(other) attempt by the Bush administration at making an end run around Congress.

A confidential draft agreement covering the future of US forces in Iraq, passed to the Guardian, shows that provision is being made for an open-ended military presence in the country.

The draft strategic framework agreement between the US and Iraqi governments, dated March 7 and marked "secret" and "sensitive", is intended to replace the existing UN mandate and authorises the US to "conduct military operations in Iraq and to detain individuals when necessary for imperative reasons of security" without time limit.

The authorisation is described as "temporary" and the agreement says the US "does not desire permanent bases or a permanent military presence in Iraq". But the absence of a time limit or restrictions on the US and other coalition forces - including the British - in the country means it is likely to be strongly opposed in Iraq and the US.

Iraqi critics point out that the agreement contains no limits on numbers of US forces, the weapons they are able to deploy, their legal status or powers over Iraqi citizens, going far beyond long-term US security agreements with other countries. The agreement is intended to govern the status of the US military and other members of the multinational force.

Becca: If you think Obama was impressive in the hearings, you have some pretty low standards

If we have low standards, it's based on experience with our current crop of "representatives."

Clinton did a good job -- always prepared and always pressing for answers she hammered Petraeus about Congressional authorization and the actual metrics by which "success" can be measured. Without being moved up in the order and allowed to pontificate for another five minutes by the chair. Funny how Obama schedules his first meeting of his committee that he was too busy campaigning to attend to on the day of this hearing, in order that he can be moved up by Nelson.

*

Put fafnerl & Outis together. If we leave and the country see's that this goat*$%^ was all for naught, the supporters and cheerleaders of the project are screwed. Thus the desperation to never leave, as it is then that the loses must be acknowledged.

"honestly, kevin. this is pure 'media gotcha' that they played."

Asking a general who's sitting before a Senate panel questions about how we get out of Iraq is "gotcha?"
What's he supposed to ask? The airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

P.S. Gotcha.

Clinton questioning here 13'07"

Obama questioning here 13' 57"

[Screw McCain, his back-pocket press will show clips endlessly.]

Former Director of the NSA retired Lt. General William Odom's analysis: quicktime or Windows

OK, I'm going to mention the unmentionable. I'm going to really piss people off. But I have to say it. Both Obama and Clinton have been impressive in these hearings. So there.

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