Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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April 29, 2008
By: Kevin Drum

McCAIN, IRAQ, AND 100 YEARS....Steve Benen summarizes John McCain's inability to make up his mind about whether we should have a long term presence in Iraq, similar to the one we have in South Korea:

  • In 2005, McCain decided Iraqis resent our military presence, so we should reject a Korea-like model for long-term troop deployment. He insisted that "U.S. 'visibility' was detrimental to the Iraq mission and that Iraqis were responding negatively to America's presence — positions held by both Obama and Clinton."

  • In 2006, McCain reversed course, and embraced the Korea model for a long-term military presence.

  • In 2007, McCain reversed course again, saying the Korean analogy doesn't work and shouldn't be followed. "[E]ventually I think because of the nature of the society in Iraq and the religious aspects of it that America eventually withdraws," McCain told Charlie Rose last fall.

  • And in 2008, McCain reversed course yet again, deciding that we should be prepared to leave troops in Iraq, even if it means 100 years or more.

Foreign policy is easy when you just make it up as you go along! More at the link.

Kevin Drum 12:55 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (29)
 
Comments

Why you hating on McRib, Kevin?

Posted by: Boronx on April 29, 2008 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

Seriously, the guy is senile. He's like an actor who can't remember his lines. It's that simple.

Posted by: Dave Brown on April 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

Mean ole Democrats! Quoting him accurately! The nerve!

Posted by: Blue Girl, Red State on April 29, 2008 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

but he's a cuddly, amiable, straight-talkin war hero! and we don't diss war heroes 'round here, you filthy, elitist, fancy-lettuce-muchin, terror-coddlin Islamocommies!

Posted by: cleek on April 29, 2008 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

The man is obviously malfunctioning. He's running around like a rat in heat.

Posted by: buddy66 on April 29, 2008 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK

Sounds like the ideal Republican next supreme court selected President of the United States to me.

Wishy washy semi-informed leadership in these turbulent times is exactly what this nation will vote into the Oval Office, you watch. Because, while "change" is a nice thought, continuing the status quo is much much safer.....

Posted by: Zit on April 29, 2008 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

"But I would fight 100 years
And I would fight 100 more
Just to be the Prez who'd fight 200 years
To end this endless war."

(YouTube, anyone?)

Posted by: Steve Paradis on April 29, 2008 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK

McCain's excessive pandering to the extreme elements of the GOP to shore up the nomination has left a lot of people wondering 'who the real McCain' is.

I wouldn't be surprise if these stories about McCain's previous position on the war (against a long presence) were actually generated by the McCain camp to try and steer the senator back to the middle for the general election.

It might yet work - the press is so malleable and lacking in journalistic integrity that they rarely press candidates on flip-flopping and lies (cf. the comparatively free ride the Clintons have received). And of course, the press still loves and treats McCain like it were 2000.

Posted by: Augustus on April 29, 2008 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

Good luck with that in November, McCain!

You gotta figure between now and November the media will wake up to this doofus.

Posted by: Chris M on April 29, 2008 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK
....Steve Benen summarizes John McCain's inability to make up his mind about whether we should have a long term presence in Iraq, similar to the one we have in South Korea

The idea itself is incoherent: is there a cease-fire line and demilitarized zone between "US-friendly Iraq" and "Insurgent Iraq"? If not, how could any extended presence be similar to the one we have in South Korea?

Posted by: cmdicely on April 29, 2008 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

Someone needs to ask McCain:

"Where would you be now, if President Nixon instituted a 'Stay in Vietnam for 100 years' policy?"

Posted by: Snarki, child of Loki on April 29, 2008 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

You gotta figure between now and November the media will wake up to this doofus.

it took them 9 years to wake up to Bush.

Posted by: cleek on April 29, 2008 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

The upshot of this, of course, is that it allows reporters to choose which of these positions they think voters will like best, re-phrase it in a way that is most appealing, and say that it is McCain's "true" position.

And, of course, different reporters can choose different positions for different audiences.

It's awesome to be McCain. Who cares what he's gonna do, let's all just stand back and admire how he plays the game!

Posted by: anonymous on April 29, 2008 at 1:38 PM | PERMALINK

Dave Brown: "He's like an actor who can't remember his lines. It's that simple."

The prophecy is true! The Reagan has returned to us!

Posted by: Grumpy on April 29, 2008 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

So what Kevin is saying is that the Dem/Obama lie about 100-years-of-war is even more of a lie than people have recently been pointing out.

Posted by: a on April 29, 2008 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

Give the poor ole sot a break - he is having his "senior moment" - repeatedly!!!

I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a true "journalist" left in the MSM since they will absolutely "subliminally select" their choice of candidate, and since the mainstream American believes the MSM and all they say as "gospel", you can best believe the public will do their bidding when voting! God, I am livid about this propoganda, illusion, inneundo, personal opinion and spin spoonfed to most of the "lazy" public!

Posted by: Disparaged on April 29, 2008 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK

Why, that's just tailor-made for one of blue-collar Tim Russert's gotcha segments where he pulls out embarrassing quotes from a politician's past.

I can't wait to see that.

Posted by: Quaker in a Basement on April 29, 2008 at 1:58 PM | PERMALINK

So he was for it before he was against it before he was for it before he was against it? Or is it the other way around?

Posted by: Stefan on April 29, 2008 at 1:58 PM | PERMALINK

But McFlipFlop would never hesitate to wear a flag lapel pin or put his hand over his heart for the anthem - so he's our guy!!

--The Media

Posted by: ckelly on April 29, 2008 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK

Since McCain didn't seem to have any moral qualms with dropping napalm on civilians in Viet Nam, why should he be concerned with slaughtering Iraqi civilians for 100 years? The man is amoral and without a conscience. He also has no memory, since he seems to have forgotten that he was once tortured and it wasn't too cool then. As long as he can keep cheating on the Beer Queen and the Viagra holds out, he is one happy, dysfunctional midget.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on April 29, 2008 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

Senator McCain wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years but get the heck outta New Orleans ASAP.

Posted by: ckelly on April 29, 2008 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

"So what Kevin is saying is that the Dem/Obama lie about 100-years-of-war is even more of a lie than people have recently been pointing out."

Well, sure, if you're a mindless partisan moron incapable of independent thought, that's precisely what Kevin is saying. To the rest of us, of course, Kevin is saying no such thing.

Posted by: PaulB on April 29, 2008 at 4:17 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan: So he was for it before he was against it before he was for it before he was against it? Or is it the other way around?

Yes. Without equivocation.

Posted by: thersites on April 29, 2008 at 7:09 PM | PERMALINK

In other words, pander to the base in election years, tell us what you really think the rest of the time, and rely on the base being too distracted by satanic homosexuals walking around forcing abortions on God fearing women to notice the how the fluctuations sync up with the election cycle.

Posted by: gex on April 30, 2008 at 3:39 AM | PERMALINK

We've been in Korea (and Germany and Japan) for all this time because of the existential struggle against communism. Over the decades, those host countries began to accept our presence as the natural order of things, something to factor into their own planning. During the height of their peril, there was no way these countries could defend themselves from the probable external threat.

Unlike in Korea, Germany, and Japan, there is reason to believe that Iraq can eventually defend itself against external threats. Senator McCain was expressing his determination to see the fight through to that day when Iraq is safe, rather than predicting we would have to stay one hundred years.

Posted by: trashhauler on April 30, 2008 at 10:07 AM | PERMALINK

Fucking moron with his delusional apples to oranges comparisons. The problem in Iraq isn't an external threat, it's an internal one. There was no insurgency in Germany or South Korea as there is in Iraq. In both Germany and South Korea, there was a clear border, a line of demarcation between unfriendly and friendly. There's no such line in Iraq, as the enemy is literally everywhere, so the comparison is one only an idiot child completely devoid of any knowledge of war and history could make.

Posted by: Stefan on April 30, 2008 at 10:26 AM | PERMALINK

Senator McCain was expressing his determination to see the fight through to that day when Iraq is safe, rather than predicting we would have to stay one hundred years.

Or, as the New Yorker's Rick Hertzberg put it:

McCain wants to stay in Iraq until no more Americans are getting killed, no matter how long it takes and how many Americans get killed achieving that goal—that is, the goal of not getting any more Americans killed. And once that goal is achieved, we'll stay.

Posted by: Stefan on April 30, 2008 at 11:00 AM | PERMALINK

Senator McCain was expressing his determination to see the fight through to that day when Iraq is safe.....

Senator McCain disagrees with you:

“I would hope that we could bring them all home,” [McCain] said on MSNBC. “I would hope that we would probably leave some military advisers, as we have in other countries, to help them with their training and equipment and that kind of stuff.”

Host Chris Matthews pressed McCain on the issue. “You’ve heard the ideological argument to keep U.S. forces in the Middle East. I’ve heard it from the hawks. They say, keep United States military presence in the Middle East, like we have with the 7th Fleet in Asia. We have the German…the South Korean component. Do you think we could get along without it?”

McCain held fast, rejecting the very policy he urges today. “I not only think we could get along without it, but I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence,” he responded. “And I don’t pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be.”

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15370.html

Posted by: Stefan on April 30, 2008 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

Is anyone seriously surprised now that McCain is
a classic flip-flopper? The question is no longer whether, but when, he will do it again.

Even though I never would have voted for him, I
had a certain amount of respect for him as a voice of reason. In just a few short months, he has totally destroyed that impression of himself. It is a frightening, dangerous, and disheartening quality in one who wants to lead the most powerful nation in the world.

If this is due to encroaching senility, that in itself is bad enough. But far worse is the idea that he knows what he is doing and simply does not care. Worst of all are the dangerously ignorant people who think he is any kind of leader this country needs.

Posted by: ANNE on June 19, 2008 at 7:29 PM | PERMALINK
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