Obama seems to be on permanent defense.

I am a big supporter and I will continue to support him, and he needs to start smacking some people down.

Can Clinton win without black turnout? Can Obama win without redneck turnout?

I haven't had a chance to hear the speech yet, but I was told he gave it with an uncommon (for him) emotionality.

http://www.google.com/search?q=checkers+speech

???

It is time for Barack to change the subject - Take up Hillary on her challenge for a "Lincoln Douglas debate".

The rules are: Each candidate speaks for 1 hour each, followed by 1 1/2 hour rebuttal each, concluding with 1/2 hour final statement.

Obama is being painted by all sides as a weakling. He either takes on HRC and crushes her as the untrustworthy liar that the majority of Americans have come to believe she is, or he loses.

Crush her or lose, it's that simple.

I was reading AmericaBlog and they just published the news that Clinton supporter invited Wright to Press Club.

Coincidence? I wouldn't be surprised if the Clintons were behind the Wright Fiasco.

The question isn't whether Hannity, McCain and FOX are still going to grind at it (they will) but how much longer CNN/MSNBC and the networks will.

I am an Obama supporter. My support for Obama has cost me dearly with my Clinton supporter friends, some who hang out here, but I have to say that Barack has to show that he is large and in charge. Right now he is being pushed around by anybody and everybody. Americans want a President who on occasion will kick ass and take names. Now is that occasion.

Sure TLM, blame it all on Hillary. Why not, she can take it.

Obama's presser today will not stop the bleeding. Too many contradictions with what he has said before, and sticking with Wright as his pastor for 20 years does not exactly exhibit sound judgement. Already some editorials reflecting this opinion ... and these from the left side. I suspect Hannity is peeing his pants right now!

I'm sure Sean Hannity and John McCain will take this straight to heart.

I never agree with worrying what the Republicans will say. I promise their lies will be worse than this story, which will be old news by the time it would matter.

Barack Obama today denounced Jeremiah Wright's recent comments as "appalling" and "outrageous."
.................................................
What? And all along I thought those were simply sound bites taken out of context...My bad!

I know thee not, old man: fall to thy prayers;
How ill white hairs become a fool and jester!

--Henry IV, Part I

The Clintons WERE behind the Wright fiasco! Examine your calendars folks and don't be fooled. Here's what the Wikipedia has to say:

In 1986, their scheme was unveiled by federal regulators who realized that all of the necessary funds for this real estate venture had come entirely from Madison Guaranty; regulators called Castle Grande a sham.[14] In July of that year, McDougals resigned from Madison Guaranty. Seth Ward fell under investigation, along with the lawyer who helped him draft the agreement. Castle Grande earned $2 million in commissions and fees for McDougal's business associates,[14] but in 1989 it collapsed, at a cost to the government of $4 million.[14] This in turn helped trigger the 1989 collapse of Madison Guaranty,[14] which federal regulators then had to take over. Taking place in the midst of the nationwide Savings and Loan crisis, the failure of Madison Guaranty cost the United States $73 million.[15]

The Clintons lost between $37,000 and $69,000 on their Whitewater investment,[16] a lesser amount than the McDougals lost, for reasons unclear in the media reports.[10] The president's supporters made reference to the Pillsbury Report, a $3 million study done for the Resolution Trust Corporation by the Pillsbury, Madison & Sutro law firm at the time that Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan was dissolved. In this report it was shown that James McDougal, who had set up the deal, was the managing partner, and Clinton was a passive investor in the venture.[17] The Presidents' critics cited the unequal capital contributions by the Clintons and McDougals as evidence that then-Governor Clinton was to contribute in other ways.

In 1988, Hillary Clinton, knowing she would run for President in 2008, paid off a young Jeremiah Wright, a pastor of Barry Obama's Church, to start repeating Black Liberation Theology rhetoric.[18] It was about this time that Hillary made her first attempt on Vince Foster's Life[19].

WAKEUP SHEEPLE!

The most telling part of Sen. Obama's speech for me? His statement: "What particularly angered me was his {Wright's] suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing."
Not Wrights repeated allegation that the U.S. government created AIDS to kill minorities. Not the charges that our nation has engaged in terrorism and as a result should not have been suprised by 911. The fact that Rev. Wright accused Barry of political posturing. THAT'S what "particularly angered" Obama. It's just a stunning and revealing statement.

jerry should win this thread!

"THAT'S what 'particularly angered' Obama"

Um ... just why did you find that "stunning and revealing?" I found it to be wholly unexceptional. Obama basically defended and supported Wright and Wright betrayed him. How would you expect Obama to react?

Why would you expect him to be "angered" over Wright's other comments? He has already said he doesn't agree with them.

It's just a stunning and revealing statement.

We're surprised when Obama is revealed to be a haughty narcissist just like Clinton or McSame? I still hold out hope that he isn't also a war-mongering megalomaniac who can't wait to bomb Iran to show what a stud he is. We already know where John and Hill stand on that issue.

Maybe we voters should look into the mirror (hat tip to Pogo).

Obama's political career has effectively been ended by the Wright fiasco. Hillary is in a statistical tie with him in NC now. She will be the Democratic nominee and Obama will experience payback for the campaign he has run against her. Obama will lose his Senate seat in the next election.

Frankly, Hillary is showing more traditional "male" qualities than Barak at this point. It seems like the right wing needed to bring down the strongest democratic contender and they have been sucessful at pushing Barak into a corner. I knew from the beginning that this whole thing about bringing America together would not get him elected. Thanks to the msm which hasn't investigated the outrageous things that McCain's pastor has said.

Very good quote, Quaker in a Basement! I was thinking the same lines as I was considering Wright. Very apt, very apt. Looks great for Obama if he is moving along Shakespearian lines in the sense of character development, too.

We will get the president we deserve. Which, frankly, depresses the hell out of me right now.
Thanks, lazy fuckwit MSM!

I think it's rather shocking that this is getting more coverage than the fact that McCain has flip-flopped TWICE on whether he wants to keep troops in Iraq for 100 years, ala South Korea.

Now, that is a shocking and revealing statement.

Wright, on the other hand, is a sideshow.

Who, exactly, is surprised by pro-Black theology? Have they ever read a sermon by MLK, or do they just celebrate his birthday because he's dead and can't embarrass their sensibilities anymore?

We will get the president we deserve. Which, frankly, depresses the hell out of me right now.
Thanks, lazy fuckwit MSM!

I don't know about the rest of y'all bitches, but I don't deserve it! :D

Conservative moderates should be happy, but liberals and leftists have just had their worst fears confirmed. The Democratic presidential nominee race is now between Mrs. William Jefferson Lieberman and Uncle Tom.

Tom -- I accept that these are hard times for Sen. Obama and no one exactly knows how all of this will play out --- except that the only one Hillary can win is by destroying severely depressing both the Black and young vote and thereby setting back the Democratic party by at least a decade. But..."lose his senate seat" and "statistical tie" in NC (based on one poll that has them within about six or seven points -- other polls still give him major double-digit leads, though narrowing). What drugs is Taylor Marsh handing out these days?

Conservative moderates should be happy, but liberals and leftists have just had their worst fears confirmed. The Democratic presidential nominee race is now between Mrs. William Jefferson Lieberman and Uncle Tom.

I'll take Uncle Tom over Uppity Nigger any day.

I mean, seriously. (rolleyes)

Ok, I apologize for comparing Wright to MLK. Wright has a lot more senseless opinions than MLK did, from the little amount that I've followed his speeches.

I was trying to say America is not ready for a pro-black leader of any persuasion.

I'll take Uncle Tom over Uppity N any day.

So will the WSJ, KKK, CITI, DOD, AIPAC, the Fellowship, etc.

Seems what we've come to is that nobody can be elected President without living a lowest- common-denominator plain white bread American life, having never associated with anyone who might have challenged their beliefs. Your basic Republican frat boy, in other words. Beyond depressing.

Pat: The fact that Rev. Wright accused Barry of political posturing. THAT'S what "particularly angered" Obama. It's just a stunning and revealing statement.

We must have heard different speeches. In fact the following was in the 6th paragraph, after his opening remarks, whereasas the comments you've quoted where from the Q&A afterwards. Seems like you've spun the emphasis a bit, whether knowingly or not.

From NYT published transcript:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/us/politics/29text-obama.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

"But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS, when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century, when he equates the United States wartime efforts with terrorism, then there are no excuses. They offend me. They rightly offend all Americans. And they should be denounced. And that's what I'm doing very clearly and unequivocally here today."

sorry, comment at 4:52 was mine

And, Brojo, spare me the purity rants. Obama was well and properly dissed by an old friend, who continues to say some lunatic things, along with the not-entirely untrue, but skewed, Chomskyite talk. (America has done many bad things -- but name one country on the planet that hasn't. The tone of this rhetoric sets us apart as a special bad actor throughout all times of our history, which is not true. We are a country, like other countries, more powerful of late but no more or less capable of great evil or great good. A radical enough thought in some quarters.)

The fact of the matter is that our ONLY hope of real change at any time in the foreseeable future is for Obama to be elected (though I admit it's only a hope) and for that to happen, he was absolutely obligated to disavow Wright completely -- even K. Olbermann was attacking Wright last night, which basically means that not a single mainstream voice will ever defend him. The American people might be ready for a black liberal, they are not ready for a radical of any color or gender, and if you're too dense to know that, then maybe the bad rap that far lefties has isn't entirely unearned.

The absurdity of the constructed Reverend Wright controversy is so pronounced - Obama is being asked to account and apologize for what his pastor says- that it highlights the mechanisms of character assassination and how it is spread from political operatives into the MSM without digestion. Now the story is on the MSM's list they fill in the narrative and carry the right-wing frame forward. Adults cannot regard such foolishness as anything they should care about. But this is for the lizard brain, so it need not make sense or reflect anything that matters. The right is also going after Oprah as a weird outsider; in her case she is leader of a poisonous New Age religion.

Seems like Obama's enemies have found their first sticky story and for the first time have him against the ropes. They are eager to pronounce him, after this relatively shallow hit, to be dead on arrival. We will see how well he fairs now that he has been baptized into real politics.

The right-wing is very good at creating "news worthy" stories. You get the sense that the noise machine is much better at creating sellable content than the MSM. They are also create narratives conservative liberals find handy. Wonder why the left is so poor at creating "news worthy content"? Do they have the marketing infrastructure needed to test out trial balloons? "Angry Black Militant" was certainly tried out before, didn't stick well, but Wright himself gave it new life.

I think this dies down now because, honestly, what more can the media do with this? Obama has come out and blasted Wright and said this guy doesn't represent me or my beliefs. You can only beat the story into the ground when someone tries to be resist. The timing was terrible for Obama because of the primaries, but this was an easy call to make: Wright's a whackjob. Well spoken, but also a Grade A Quack. Shout him down and then move on.

Meanwhile, the McCain-Hagee Armageddon Watch is now at 62 days.

It's been 62 days since John McCain said he was "very proud" and "honored" to have Pastor John Hagee's endorsement. But McCain still has not answered - or even been asked - the question: Does John McCain agree with Pastor Hagee that war with Iran is the fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of Armageddon?

For the details, see:
"The McCain-Hagee Armageddon Watch."

I am pretty sick of the agenda being set by the outsiders, because I know that Obama can set it if shows the leadership he has shown in the past. Enough with the parrying, time to start shining shame on the pundits for analyzing the most mundane of details. Another election decided on the beer vote.

Not if I can help it.

No, db11, we didn't listen to different speeches. What I posted above was a direct quote. And it is in the transcript you link to as well. He is "particularly" angered by the accusation of him politically posturing. The rest? He's offended. Pretty telling comment. But it seems like when he goes off the Axelrod prepared text, there's lots of telling comments.

It is now time for Sen. Obama and liberals to kick in Mrs. William Jefferson Lieberman's Goldwater plated teeth.

When Mrs William Jefferson Lieberman said she would annihilate Iran if it should attack Israel, she failed to say she would annihilate Israel if it attacked Iran. She is a mass murderer for AIPAC.

Still waiting for the media to call on John McCain to denounce Rev. Hagee for once again saying that God destroyed New Orleans because He hates gay people so much.

I have a feeling I'm gonna have a long wait on that. It seems to be okay to talk about God killing gay people, but all of a sudden the fainting couch comes out if Rev. Wright says the same thing about the U.S.

No, I don't think that AIDS was created by the government -- if nothing else, we just didn't have the technology -- but the people talking about how it's a completely irrational charge seem to have never heard of the Tuskegee Experiment, which continued into the 1970s. We're not talking about ancient history here.

*

One expects that all of Wright's defenders in other threads will not be outraged that Obama is throwing him under the bus.

….I wouldn't be surprised if the Clintons were behind the Wright Fiasco. TLM at 3:53 PM

….Right now he is being pushed around by anybody and everybody…..Ron Byers at 3:56 PM

….I was trying to say America is not ready for a pro-black leader of any persuasion…. absent observer at 4:45 PM

….We will see how well he fairs now that he has been baptized into real politics….bellumregio at 4:56 PM

"The rest? He's offended. Pretty telling comment."

But Pat, you forgot to say what it is the comment is supposed to "tell" us. When you just say it's a "telling comment," it's kind of like saying "questions swirl." It's a shadow of an insinuation, but you can't seem to muster the courage to go ahead and deliver.

Spill it, friend. What are we to be told by Mr. Obama's "telling comment"?

I am a left liberal but I support Clinton. However I think the Wright episode is very unfair to Obama. I think Hillary can and should win fair and square and there is no joy in seeing anyone undermined the way Wright is hurting Obama.

Also, I am disgusted by Obama supporters trashing Hillary with right-wing talking points. I dont'think that helps him either.

We are watching phony political theater here and its quite disheartening..

After Pennsylvania, Obama saw that the Wright issue hadn't really died down it was still simmering below the surface and affecting his standing amongst an important voting block.

So he and Wright started this Kabuki game.

Wright says something especially outrageous

and Obama all of a sudden can now denounce him
claiming the rejection of Wright is based on these new statements. The whole point is to leave the false impression that these statements are something new and different from what Wright had been saying for the past twenty years.

Its nothing but BS. These are the same things Wright has been saying for twenty years and Obama well knows it. Indeed anyone looking at Wrights old sermons knows it. Obama listened to this garbage for twenty years and it didn't bother him- Indeed when he thought he could finesse it before the PA. primary- it still didn't bother him. Then the problem was that white people didn't understand Wright and the black church.
It is only now when he sees the issue is not going away that all of a sudden he wants to be self righteously angry. its a bad acting job.

All he is doing is showing that he is a total phony who has no real substance and will do and say anything for his own advancement.

The transformational new politician- which was the only reason to support him- has been shown to be an empty sham.

If his supporters don't wake up quick and realize the emperor has no clothes- the whole democratic party will be dragged down in November.

I never missed Gore more. But if we are going to be stuck with a selfish politician -lets at least go with an experienced one like Clinton who can win over the hispanics, women and the white Working class.

Mrs. William Jefferson Lieberman's religious group, led by Doug Coe, had their prayers answered when Sen. Obama threw his pastor under the bus. The power of prayer works if it is done with the right media ownership group.

I wish Edwards was still in the race.

This will only "die down" if the GOP rolls over and gives up the fight, and if Pastor Wright slinks away into the night and doesn't respond to Obama's smackdown.

Anybody wanna bet?

The right-wing operative Floyd Brown and his ilk have been marketing Wright and other smears against Obama for a time. A number of first tier wingers like Hannity tried to get it going. Nothing was working. Wright gave the story new legs, so now we have to eat some more mud pie served by the MSM.

I am suspicious when Obama attacks are blamed on Hillary Clinton. This seems like something the right-wing would try to spread. It can only play into their hands.

After seeing clips of Rev. Wright's appearance, I have to say, the Republicans had better hope that more people read about the appearance than actually see it, because that's the only way they're going to make him look bad.

Even the clips they showed on my local Fox news broadcast last night showed a very winning guy with a great sense of humor, not at all the Scary Angry Black Man that the media outlets are trying to claim he was. And the reason for the nasty stories today became very clear -- the reporters "interviewing" him afterwards looked and sounded like clueless idiots.

even K. Olbermann was attacking Wright

So was Fox's Juan Williams on National Pentagon Radio this AM. Employees of GE and Newscorp can be expected to attack anyone, White or Black, who publicizes America's crimes. They will not attack Hagee or Kahane.

absent observer at 4:45 PM : I was trying to say America is not ready for a pro-black leader of any persuasion.

Mike at 5:16 PM: Is that like a pro-white leader only opposite? Anyway, it's nonsense.

No, it's like a pro-woman leader, except scarier. Or have you already overcome race in your world?

National Pentagon Radio? I thought it was now called Nice Polite Republicans?

Remember all those skeptics who said there's no way Obama could have attended Trinity United for 20 years and not heard incendiary comments on par with the one's which have all become so famous in the last few weeks? The problem was there was seemingly no way to know for certain if similar comments had been made or, had such comments been made, if Obama had been there to hear them. We just had to take Obama's word for it. But who knows better than Wright himself if such comments were regular faire or not? And if they were, and if he knows for certain that Obama heard them at least on occasion, then I think we can be quite certain that Wright will make sure all the rest of us know that too.

Poor Obama.
Not black enough for the media in 2007
Not white enough in 2008
Coming in 2009: not Hawaiian enough.

Hopefully he overcomes all this mess. I agree with those who say he should debate more.

JameStew, Jeremiah Wright was a pastor for 36 years.

Unless the few sound bites that have been getting play are just samples from several dozen equally incendiary speeches, then they could easily be either not noticed or excused among the hundreds (thousands?) of sermons he delivered over that time.

There is also a big difference between making such statements in the middle of a fiery sermon and repeating and expanding on the most controversial of them when challenged on the later.

Your cynical view of Obama's response says more about you than it does about him, and none of the candidates (especially McCain) fair to well if everything they do or say is subject to that kind of standard.

How long until Obama is attacked for being a wuss and not standing up for his friends and allies?

Quinn: Wright's a whackjob. Well spoken, but also a Grade A Quack.

I have trouble understanding how any progressive could listen to the substance of Wrights speeches and not conclude that he is thoughtful, educated and incisive in his opinions. But that would requiring actually researching the body of his work, listening to his entire speeches rather than relying on out-of-context sound bites, and relying on original transcripts instead of the distorted media narrative.

The few opinions that stand out as disturbing (farrkan, imperalism/terrorism, aids) are easily understood through the prism of black experience, for those of his generation and the concomitant identification with the oppressed.

The one that keeps getting cited as absolute 'proof' of his wackadoodle status is of course the aids issue. I for one, can't imaging why any African-American would ever think the American government could possibly be involved in infecting black men with venereal diseases. Oh wait, there was that Tuskegee thing – but that happened back before civil rights, when America was still racist...

I have no issues with Wright or anything he says as a reflection of his beliefs and political truths. What he said was NOT offensive to any thinking person... what it was, was impolitic and clearly damaging to Obama's political prospects. Especially his NPC Q&A, which revealed some personal hurt, animus and ego. But if any of the people bellowing about him had half of his character, courage, accomplishments and cv, then perhaps I would give their opinions equal credence and respect.

Obama did what he had to do because America is a politically shallow and immature culture... both brittle and bellicose, intolerant of dissent, and with a deep vein of veiled racism that survives unabated a century and a half after the end of slavery.

America is racked with cognitive dissonance - its citizens unwilling to face their own historical truth and blind to the horrors unleashed on the world in their name. (That those horrors now come from planes owned by and emblazoned with the flag of the US, does not make the bombs they they drop any less terrifying to their victims than those of hijacked planes that have become the bombs.)

Can one say that in the public square and not be vilified as unpatriotic, whacked-out, crazy, toxic. Of course not, as Obama has understood. I do believe that Obama is trying to elevate the discourse on both sides of the racist divide in America – and thinks that it can't be done when black men are telling the truth of their experience and history, in the language of the justifiable emotions they feel. Wright thinks it can't be done unless their witness is validated and the historical injustices explicitly acknowledged.

I don't know which man is right, but I do know that the man named Wright deserves much more respect than even most supposed liberals afford him.

I'm not sure what more Obama could say, to be honest.

Well, most of Obama's renunciation wasn't new. What changed today is that he got specific.

That, alone, probably would have made this confrontational, even if Rev. Wright hadn't taken his minstrel show live yesterday.
.

Stop the bleeding? Yes, this Obama partisan believes so. (I saw most of his press conference.)

Clinton and McCain partisans will say otherwise, of course, and continue to disparage Obama--call into question his honesty, insinuate nasty stuff-- because the Wright debacle was their only hope of beating him. So expect more hijinx, I s'pose.

I would rather vote for the Rev. Wright than either Uncle Tom or Mrs William Jefferson Kahane.

I note the Hillary trolls are out in force.

One Uncle Tom, a few accusations of how Obama's a "pussy" -- goodness, how quick they take up the GOP spin.

Oh, and the predictions of defeat. Can't forget those.

My prediction -- and I'm quite happy that I was accurate about Wright's effect on polling the first time, AND on the effects of Bittergate -- Obama will be just fine and things will continue pretty much as they were last week.

NewsMax.com, that major outlet of right-wing innuendo, started peddling the story of Obama as an Angry Black Nationalist back in January. It came after the relatively unsuccessful, except with the base, smear that Obama was a secret Muslim.

Ronald Kessler at NewsMax.com way back on January 7 said:
But media bias or not, if Obama is his party’s nominee, his Republican opponent will rightly be able to make use of Rev. Wright and his radical teachings as effectively as supporters of George H.W. Bush used Willie Horton’s furlough to help Bush win the presidency.

There is nothing mysterious or substantive about this. It has been cooked up and spun by right-wing professionals and disseminated by mailings, e-mails and eventually by sites like NewsMax.com and Drudge. As with the Obama is a Muslim story they tend to rise to surface from rather obscure radical right-wingers making crazy claims. To see how this works check out Christopher Hayes’ article The New Right-Wing Smear Machine.

Obama has the Wright stuff.

His pastor has led him into a pasture, where the msm continues to spread the manure, confusing the excrement for real news.

Stinks doesn't it?

Pat: No, db11, we didn't listen to different speeches. What I posted above was a direct quote. And it is in the transcript you link to as well. He is "particularly" angered by the accusation of him politically posturing. The rest? He's offended. Pretty telling comment. But it seems like when he goes off the Axelrod prepared text, there's lots of telling comments.

He's angered by that comment in particular, because he took it as a personal attack on his political integrity – coming from a man he considered an ally and friend. (he also said he was saddened by these same remarks - the combination being a very human reaction). He isn't angered by the other comments because he does not take them as personal attacks - which they aren't. They reflect a different perspective that he finds offensive (in their aggressive language) and unhelpful to the kind of discourse he has been trying to build around hearing the racial divide.

It takes an opposing agenda to spin that as telling evidence of some fundamental character flaw in Obama. (additional evidence of pre-existing Obama animus "...Axelrod prepared text" )

I’m not sure how hypocritical Obama is, but he’s disingenuous at least, to some degree.

Later on tonight, I’m going to do something on David Axelrod’s screw-up on this.

keep forgetting to enter my info. Comment at 6:13 above is mine.

I can't wait to hear Bill O'Lielly ask Hillary about this tomorrow.

Getcha popcorn!

Hey, I respect that it doesn't bother you. It does bother me that the Senator is apparently more troubled about attacks on his own image than he is about the outrageous attacks on the reputation of our country and its government. To me it's telling and it's not the priorities I want my President to have. But people are free to make up their own mind and proceed accordingly. That's the way it works.

It does bother me that the Senator is apparently more troubled about attacks on his own image than he is about the outrageous attacks on the reputation of our country and its government.

So "angry" indicates a greater level of being troubled than "saddened"? I say you're distributing taffy and I'm free to call you on it. That's the way it works.

Did anyone else read that Barbara Reynolds..."A former editorial board member at USA Today, [who] runs something called Reynolds News Services and teaches ministry at the Howard University School of Divinity,..[and] introduced Monday as a member of the National Press Club...organized...the [Wright] event - [and] is an enthusiastic Hillary Clinton supporter.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Paper_Hillary_supporter_organized_Wright_event_0429.html

"Clinton is viewed as "honest and trustworthy" by just 39 percent of Americans, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, compared with 52 percent in May 2006. Nearly six in 10 said in the new poll that she is not honest and trustworthy. And now, compared with Obama, Clinton has a deep trust deficit among Democrats, trailing him by 23 points as the more honest, an area on which she once led both Obama and John Edwards."

Pound this message, Barack.

I have trouble understanding how any progressive could listen to the substance of Wrights speeches and not conclude that he is thoughtful, educated and incisive in his opinions. But that would requiring actually researching the body of his work, listening to his entire speeches rather than relying on out-of-context sound bites, and relying on original transcripts instead of the distorted media narrative.

I have watched his interviews, and that's why I've stated how well-spoken he is. However, some of his comments are far, far beyond the pale and can't be justified within the context of the entire interview either.

The few opinions that stand out as disturbing (farrkan, imperalism/terrorism, aids) are easily understood through the prism of black experience, for those of his generation and the concomitant identification with the oppressed.

No, they are not EASILY understood at all. It's frightening to think that the black experience has been so poisoned that many think these things, but I don't feel that's all of America's problem to sort out. I stand behind those black leaders like Obama that are willing to stand up to such drivel, not those that seek to perpetuate it.

I have trouble understanding how any progressive could listen to the substance of Wrights speeches and not conclude that he is thoughtful, educated and incisive in his opinions. But that would requiring actually researching the body of his work, listening to his entire speeches rather than relying on out-of-context sound bites, and relying on original transcripts instead of the distorted media narrative.

I have watched his interviews, and that's why I've stated how well-spoken he is. However, some of his comments are far, far beyond the pale and can't be justified within the context of the entire interview either.

The few opinions that stand out as disturbing (farrkan, imperalism/terrorism, aids) are easily understood through the prism of black experience, for those of his generation and the concomitant identification with the oppressed.

No, they are not EASILY understood at all. It's frightening to think that the black experience has been so poisoned that many think these things, but I don't feel that's all of America's problem to sort out. I stand behind those black leaders like Obama that are willing to stand up to such drivel, not those that seek to perpetuate it.

"Taffy?" Must be a Quaker thing? I, of course, was referring to the word "particularly" which (as you likely know) means exactly that. So, yes.

Obama is being asked to account and apologize for what his pastor says

But why does he take the bait? I have to listen to George Bush, and a lot of other people who say things I don't agree with, but does anyone hold me accountable for that?

Reverend Wright is a pastor. Pastors say a lot of stuff. Am I offended by what they say? No. Do I need Senator Obama to tell me that Wright's remarks "rightly offend all Americans"? No. Senator Obama doesn't speak for me. I think many of Rev. Wright's comments are right on. He was, in my opinion, razor-sharp at the Press Club, for example.

The US Constitution clearly separates church and state, and furthermore states that there should be no religious test for office in the US. That should be Obama's response, not this ongoing slamming of Pastor Wright. Obama wants to use his religion, as all US politicians do, to advance his political career but that gets him wrongly involved in religious issues, which is his pastor's responsibility and not his. Butt out, Obama.

Rev. Wright should tell Obama to stick to his politics, and let him (Wright) handle the religious issues. (Actually, he has sort of said this.) That's the way it's supposed to be in America (but isn't).

At the bottom of this, of course, is racism, the very scourge that Wright has been fighting. Negroes should stay in their place, and not be so uppity. Why he actually had a good time at the Press Club, preening and enjoying his newfound celebrity status! Good for you, reverend. I like your style. Stick it to the man.

Shakespeare was right: Much Ado About Nothing.

Has anyone come up with the reason Wright is suppose to be hurting Obama? As in, What is the connection that makes Obama a bad man? No? Gee. Am not surprised; It doesn't exist.

Actually, Wright is helping Obama. People are all wondering if Obama is tough enough to be president. This silly Wright issue is showing Obama can handle anything.

Now, I still want to know why Hillary lied about her sniper story FOUR times. Gee, that must mean she is better at being a lying president than Obama. And McCain, He enjoys looking for preachers support that spew forth hate like Hagee and Robertson.

The Wright issue also shows that a lot of Americans are anti-religion and demand that pastors and ministers speak in a way that is approved by the likes of Foxnews, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, or even the reader of this post.

But, Ministers can preach however they may, they can rant and rave all they want, until the IRS says, oops, their church crosses a legal line.

Shakespeare was right in another way: What fools these mortals be!

That, alone, probably would have made this confrontational, even if Rev. Wright hadn't taken his minstrel show live yesterday.

Dude. "Minstrel show"? Do you have to sink to that?

I stand behind those black leaders like Obama that are willing to stand up to such drivel, not those that seek to perpetuate it.

Throughout its pre Civil War history, American Uncle Toms were willing to sit on the cart and do nothing while traders raped slave children. That kind of willingness to accept White domination is the kind of drivel Sen. Obama drooled for slaverers today.

Perhaps Sen. Obama's lack of relations to family who experienced US slavery from the raped side is a reason he is unable to empathize with their trauma.

The most telling part of Sen. Obama's speech for me? His statement: "What particularly angered me was his {Wright's] suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing."
Not Wrights repeated allegation that the U.S. government created AIDS to kill minorities. Not the charges that our nation has engaged in terrorism and as a result should not have been suprised by 911. The fact that Rev. Wright accused Barry of political posturing. THAT'S what "particularly angered" Obama. It's just a stunning and revealing statement.

And speaking of stunning & revealing statements, the thing that's got Pat clutching his pearls & fighting off fainting spells is,

... the outrageous attacks on the reputation of our country and its government.

Because, if you ask Pat, the US is above things like the Tuskegee experiments, the bombing of Dresden, the nuclear holocausts of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, and the strafing of Cambodia & Laos -- to say nothing of what we demonstrated ourselves capable of since then. Really -- the nerve that somebody would call our integrity into question!

Gad, but you're a completely unredeemable tool.

Obama did what he had to do because America is a politically shallow and immature culture... both brittle and bellicose, intolerant of dissent, and with a deep vein of veiled racism that survives unabated a century and a half after the end of slavery.

Absolutely correct. And if Obama had been smart enough to recognize this and leave that church the minute he started thinking about running for president, he wouldn't have had to do any of it.

This isn't about whether Wright is or is not a crackpot or a racist or unpatriotic; it's not about whether Obama has or has not sufficiently denounced him. It's about Obama's piss-poor judgment in thinking his long association with Wright wasn't going to cause disastrous blowback. Obama is a lousy judge of character and a rotten judge of public perception and of how partisan politics works.

Just the kind of person we need in the White House to achieve consensus and accomplish transcendent feats of postpartisanship.

Obama is a lousy judge of character and a rotten judge of public perception and of how partisan politics works. Swift Loris 7:02 PM.

You are able to glean all of this insight from the Wright story. Damn you must be as smart as Hillary. Frankly, long experience has taught me to be a little reluctant when jumping to sweeping conclusions. Sometimes you have to play the cards as they are dealt.

Mike: One expects that all of Wright's defenders in other threads will not be outraged that Obama is throwing him under the bus.

Why would you expect that? They're adults with their own opinions and priorities. Viewing Wright entirely through an Obama lens is as warped as viewing Obama entirely through a Wright lens.

As KD said, "Wright sure isn't doing Barack Obama any favors, is he?", and that's true. I also wish Wright had kept quiet. But those are Obama-centric views, not an objective view of the individuals.

If the primary basis for judging individuals is how they relate to candidates, we do a disservice to both, and risk losing sight of the goal. (As unfortunately many pro- and con- Hillary and Obama comments in these threads illustrate.)

"Perhaps Sen. Obama's lack of relations to family who experienced US slavery from the raped side is a reason he is unable to empathize with their trauma." - Brojo

So what are you saying Brojo? That now he's not black enough? Or that only people who's family experienced US slavery from the raped side can empathize? That's crap, just pure crap.

Obama is a lousy judge of character and a rotten judge of public perception and of how partisan politics works. Swift Loris 7:02 PM.

You are able to glean all of this insight from the Wright story.

You betchum. It isn't rocket science.

Damn you must be as smart as Hillary. Frankly, long experience has taught me to be a little reluctant when jumping to sweeping conclusions. Sometimes you have to play the cards as they are dealt.

And sometimes you have to be smart enough to see that the game is rigged and not sit down at the table in the first place.

Throughout its pre Civil War history, American Uncle Toms were willing to sit on the cart and do nothing while traders raped slave children. That kind of willingness to accept White domination is the kind of drivel Sen. Obama drooled for slaverers today.

Perhaps Sen. Obama's lack of relations to family who experienced US slavery from the raped side is a reason he is unable to empathize with their trauma.

Well, the term Uncle Tom doesn't have much of a history prior to the Civil War, as Stowe's novel -- from which the term is derived -- wasn't published until 9 years before the war.

But your assumptions about the "willingness" of African Americans to put up with the inhumane & unrelenting shit they were dealt, combined with your blame-the-victim mentality, gives the lie to the too-radical-for-you pose you're so fond of striking here. Yeah, you're so in tune with the trauma and suffering of the oppressed. Tell us all about the badass Rambo maneuvers you would've pulled had you drawn their lot back then, Brojo.

This needs saying here as well: Jeremiah Wright served in the Marine Corps for about six years, which is more than we can say for Dick Cheney et al (as JW noted recently.) See this link for good scoop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jeremiah_Wright_as_a_Marine_Medic_Tending_to_Pres_Lyndon_Johnson.jpg
That's right, JW tending to President LBJ and was commended for it. Now, get the overall scoop from his Wikipedia biography:

Inspired by President John F. Kennedy's 1961 challenge to "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," Wright gave up his student deferment, left college and joined the United States Marine Corps and became part of the 2nd Marine Division with the rank of private first class. In 1963, after two years of service, Wright then transferred to the United States Navy and entered the Corpsman School at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, where he graduated as valedictorian.[10][6] Having excelled in corpsman school, Wright was then trained as a cardiopulmonary technician at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland where he graduated as salutatorian.[6] Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of President Lyndon B. Johnson (see photo of Wright caring for Johnson after his 1966 surgery). Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House awarded Wright three letters of commendation.[11][12][13]

Note that Wright gave up his student deferment, which means he could have avoided service during the difficult Vietnam period. Note also that Cheney, Rove, etc. "had other priorities" or anal cysts or whatever.

Also, maybe JW is living up to his Biblical namesake's mission of making prophecies of disparagement and dire warning. His sermon was indeed a Jeremiad, as defined in Wikipedia:

A Jeremiad is a long literary work, usually in prose, but sometimes in poetry, in which the author bitterly laments the state of society and its morals in a serious tone of sustained invective, and always contains a prophecy of society's imminent downfall.

I don't think his message was really racist, just a bit overly bitter lamentation about society and where America was going.

tyrannogenius

"And if Obama had been smart enough to recognize this and leave that church the minute he started thinking about running for president, he wouldn't have had to do any of it."

Oh, nonsense. They still would have found Wright and still would have put his comments on YouTube and still would have pilloried Obama for being a member of the church for so long. This is stupid.

"This isn't about whether Wright is or is not a crackpot or a racist or unpatriotic; it's not about whether Obama has or has not sufficiently denounced him. It's about Obama's piss-poor judgment in thinking his long association with Wright wasn't going to cause disastrous blowback."

You do realize that you're judging a three-decade career on the basis of a few out-of-context sound bites, right? And that maybe someone who has known him for 20 years might not be focusing on the "strange old uncle" beliefs and foibles and might be looking more at the Reverend's impact on the community and church?

"Obama is a lousy judge of character and a rotten judge of public perception and of how partisan politics works."

ROFL.... My goodness, but what a crock of sh*t.

"Just the kind of person we need in the White House to achieve consensus and accomplish transcendent feats of postpartisanship."

As compared to, say, Clinton, who chose people like Mark Penn to run her campaign? Yup.

Has BOb learned nothing from Karl Rove in the last 7-8 years? You run *on* your weaknesses!

Here's an ad he could have run:

FADE IN:
A monochrome photograph of the Twin Towers with pillars of smoke rising. A hand places another photograph in the shot, Wright delivering his sermon.

V.O. -- extract from unbroadcast part of Wright video.
"This is a time for me to examine my own relationship with God. Is it real or is it fake? Is it forever or is it for show? Is it something you do for the sake of the public or is it something that you do for the sake of eternity? This is a time to examine my own and a time for you to examine your own relationship with God."

Final photograph added: Obama and Wright together.

TAG
"*This* is Barack Obama, *that* is *my* pastor, and I approve this message."

Oh well. So long, Barack. There was a little hope there for a while.

Dude. "Minstrel show"? Do you have to sink to that?

Ha Ha, that's so funny coming from an afficionado of LGM where they called Juan Williams an Uncle Tom!

It's just so f*ed up that everything this guy says has to be treated as attributable to Obama.

Probably almost every single person I've known I've liked, I've had occasion to get really annoyed at. Why should it be any different with Barack Obama, and since when is it any different with probably all of the rest of us?

the term Uncle Tom

The expression describes an archetype that was well known in slave culture. Slaves inability to confront their rapists is easily explained through indoctrination, malnutrition and a lifetime of abuse. Their lack of confrontation is understood. Non-slaves inability to confront their historical rapists still describes that archetype, which is why it came back into use during the Black Power movement. I think Obama should defend his pastor's right to have his beliefs and not subjugate his support to those who fear what Wright says. That is what McCain would do with Hagee and Clinton with Coe.

I am not saying Sen. Obama is not Black enough, but suggesting he may not have the emotional attachment to the slave experience like other African Americans might. The raping of slave children or any other slave abuse may be an abstraction to him that he can only realize historically, while others with more of an investment in that past, perhaps because of family histories, cannot approach it from such an objective distance.

"And if Obama had been smart enough to recognize this and leave that church the minute he started thinking about running for president, he wouldn't have had to do any of it."

Oh, nonsense. They still would have found Wright and still would have put his comments on YouTube and still would have pilloried Obama for being a member of the church for so long.

Sure, but if he had already rejected Wright by leaving the church before he started his run, they'd have had a much harder job making a big deal of it. And he sure as hell wouldn't be in the mess he's in now.

You do realize that you're judging a three-decade career on the basis of a few out-of-context sound bites, right?

You do realize you don't read so good, right?

I'm not judging anything on the basis of sound bites. I'm talking about Obama's failure to realize his association with Wright would come back to bite him in the butt.

And we're way past a few out-of-context sound bites now. I'm not exactly a fan of Wright as a person, but I'm very much in tune with most of what he says.

And that maybe someone who has known him for 20 years might not be focusing on the "strange old uncle" beliefs and foibles and might be looking more at the Reverend's impact on the community and church?

Yep, just as I said, atrocious judgment if he was going to run for president.

He even admitted in the press conference that he'd been mistaken about Wright, said he must not know him as well as he thought he did. Sorta like Putin's soul wasn't quite what Bush thought it was. Only Obama's known Wright for 20 years, and Bush had just met Putin for the first time.

I'm not really that worried about Obama exercising that bad judgment in the White House. He's not going to have a chance now.

"Sure, but if he had already rejected Wright by leaving the church before he started his run, they'd have had a much harder job making a big deal of it."

LOL... So loudly and publicly rejecting his pastor and his church of 20 years prior to his run wouldn't have worked against him? So tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

"And he sure as hell wouldn't be in the mess he's in now."

Yes, actually, he would, as even a few moments of actual thought would show. Getting out a few months before starting his campaign would have just made him look cynical and stupid, since he would still have had to answer for sitting in the congregation for 20 years.

"You do realize you don't read so good, right?"

ROFL.... Yes, dear, I do, since you loudly proclaimed that Obama was a lousy judge of character, which means that you are, in fact, condemning Wright, not on the basis of his several decades of service and ministry, but on the basis of a few out-of-context sound bites. I stand by my statement.

"I'm not judging anything on the basis of sound bites."

Yes, in fact, you are: "Obama is a lousy judge of character." Those are your words. Deal with them.

"I'm talking about Obama's failure to realize his association with Wright would come back to bite him in the butt."

And you have yet to demonstrate that he should have known this, much less explain why you are vilifying Wright and condemning Obama.

"And we're way past a few out-of-context sound bites now."

No, actually we're not. There isn't anything he's saying, really, that hasn't been said at one time or another by one hell of a lot of religious leaders.

"I'm not exactly a fan of Wright as a person, but I'm very much in tune with most of what he says."

ROFL.... Uh-huh, right.... No comment necessary for this bit of idiocy.

"Yep, just as I said, atrocious judgment if he was going to run for president."

ROFLMAO.... Dear heart, repeating a bit of idiocy doesn't make it any more true.

"I'm not really that worried about Obama exercising that bad judgment in the White House."

Correct, because in his choice of people to actually tend to his campaign and in his choice of advisors, his judgment has been quite good. As compared to Clinton, whose judgment of people to actually run things has been piss poor. What was that you were saying about "judgment" again?

"He's not going to have a chance now."

Whatever you say, dear. Next time, try to turn your brain on before you post, won't you?

Hoisted on his own petard!

Obama is in a lose-lose situation, and he has no one to blame except himself. Obama's problem is that he can't have it both ways -- he can't simultaneously claim credit for all the good while disavowing all the bad from his close personal association with Jeremiah Wright. Obama is in a trap of his own making.

Now the only thing remaining to play out in this pathetic drama is the gotcha moment -- when proof comes before the public that Obama has been aware for years of the true character of Wright and Wright's theology, in direct contradition of what Obama claims today.

"Sounds like Obama's chickens are coming home to roost." -- Orwell

Bravo, Orwell. Bravo!

But your assumptions about the "willingness" of African Americans to put up with the inhumane & unrelenting shit they were dealt, combined with your blame-the-victim mentality, gives the lie to the too-radical-for-you pose you're so fond of striking here. Yeah, you're so in tune with the trauma and suffering of the oppressed. Tell us all about the badass Rambo maneuvers you would've pulled had you drawn their lot back then, Brojo.

Brojo, you're an ass, you got pwned, you don't know it.

It's time for you to slink away shithead.

No one could have predicted that Reverend Wright's speeches would slam into Barack Obama.

LOL... So loudly and publicly rejecting his pastor and his church of 20 years prior to his run wouldn't have worked against him?

Wow, you're even dumber than I thought. Or maybe you're just hallucinatory. Or you're just making stuff up because you haven't got anything solid to say.

I never said "loudly and publicly." You made that up. Obama: "Naah, I left that church several years ago. Got fed up with the pastor, Rev. Wright. He's done some great community work with the congregation, but he's way too radical and confrontational. Not at all my style of thinking."

"And he sure as hell wouldn't be in the mess he's in now."

Yes, actually, he would, as even a few moments of actual thought would show. Getting out a few months before starting his campaign would have just made him look cynical and stupid

Reading comprehension again. I said he should have quit the church when he first started thinking about running for president. That wasn't just a few months before starting his campaign.

you loudly proclaimed that Obama was a lousy judge of character, which means that you are, in fact, condemning Wright, not on the basis of his several decades of service and ministry, but on the basis of a few out-of-context sound bites.

And reading comprehension again. I'm echoing Obama's own words, that he didn't know Wright as well as he thought he did. Did you watch Wright's NAACP and NPC speeches and the Q&A afterward, where he rather viciously dissed Obama?

"I'm not judging anything on the basis of sound bites."

Yes, in fact, you are: "Obama is a lousy judge of character." Those are your words. Deal with them.

See above, dumbo. Obama didn't expect Wright to come out of the woodwork, make a spectacle of himself, and crap all over his candidacy.

"I'm talking about Obama's failure to realize his association with Wright would come back to bite him in the butt."

And you have yet to demonstrate that he should have known this

ROTFL! How could I "demonstrate" such a thing? By creating an alternate reality, perhaps, in which he did know it, quit, and got elected?

"And we're way past a few out-of-context sound bites now."

No, actually we're not. There isn't anything he's saying, really, that hasn't been said at one time or another by one hell of a lot of religious leaders.

Non sequitur. They haven't been 20-year pastors of the first viable black presidential candidate.

"I'm not exactly a fan of Wright as a person, but I'm very much in tune with most of what he says."

ROFL.... Uh-huh, right.... No comment necessary for this bit of idiocy.

Not that you could come up with, anyway. I'm an old lefty, y'see, and a big fan of black liberation theology. Just not of every last dude who happens to preach it.

"Yep, just as I said, atrocious judgment if he was going to run for president."

ROFLMAO.... Dear heart, repeating a bit of idiocy doesn't make it any more true.

And laughing your ass off without actually rebutting anything doesn't make it false.

"I'm not really that worried about Obama exercising that bad judgment in the White House."

Correct, because in his choice of people to actually tend to his campaign and in his choice of advisors, his judgment has been quite good.

None of those advisers or campaign-tenders, however, realized the danger Wright posed either, so they aren't all that good. (You do know David Axelrod was Deval Patrick's campaign manager too, right?)

"He's not going to have a chance now."

Whatever you say, dear. Next time, try to turn your brain on before you post, won't you?

Not-so-smart-ass, heal thyself.

Obama is running on judgement, what judgement has he shown being associated with Wright for 20 years? BAD JUDGEMENT!!!!! He has no JUDGEMENT!!!! He needs to get out now and save our party.

Get over yourselves Obamabots. The Precious is doomed. He has feet of clay and he is a pussy. Hillary has bigger balls and knows how to swing them. Obambi couldn't crush a fly. He's a wimp who has to be bolstered by his women, i.e. Grandma, Wife, Oprah. Caroline Kennedy. Put a skirt on him and send him back to San Francisco He's not ready for prime time. McCain and the right wing 527's will eat him alive. And if you Obamabots are hyperventilating about how Hillary has treated him you'll all need a Xanax drip if he is the nominee.

Non-slaves inability to confront their historical abusers still describes that archetype, which is why it came back into use during the Black Power movement as a pejorative. Obama will throw anyone under the bus in order to become president.

Junebug thinks we deserved 911. Here's hint for free sugar. If you actually support Obama, you might want to just STFU. You're not helping him.

slink away

anon understands the behavior of Uncle Toms and endorses it, approving Sen. Obama's denouncement of Wright in order to win the votes of latent racists and milquetoasts. There is a difference between the the ideals of John Brown and Martin Luther King, Jr, and then there is a repudiation of all conflict in order to live and eat another day without the stress of conflict, which anon and mainstream politicians prefer.

Junebug thinks we deserved 911.

Really? Rather than talking out of your ass & aping right-wing framing devices, you might want to show me where I said that.

Dipshit.

"Taffy?" Must be a Quaker thing?

No, Twain. You're judging the man based on his use of the word "particularly"?

Congratulations.

You must be an RNC plant, Junebug. Either that or you are another run of the mill kook and a 911 troofer. But you keep sharing your opinions. You and Rev. Wright sure are helping Barry. And I'm sure the RNC appreciates it every time you post somewhere. In fact, I suspect they'd be willing to fly you around the country just so you can share your opinions about the country and Sen. Obama.

You must be an RNC plant, Junebug. Either that or you are another run of the mill kook and a 911 troofer. But you keep sharing your opinions. You and Rev. Wright sure are helping Barry. And I'm sure the RNC appreciates it every time you post somewhere. In fact, I suspect they'd be willing to fly you around the country just so you can share your opinions about the country and Sen. Obama.

You must be an RNC plant...

That's rich. This, from the guy who whined upthread about "the outrageous attacks on the reputation of our country and its government." Figure out the pose you want to strike & stick with it.

you got pwned

The criticisms from junebug, Bob and optical weenie are justified because they contain substance derived from my comments. They are not ad hominem attacks, but responses. anon can only offer a toy from the Sixties.

"Wow, you're even dumber than I thought."

ROFL.... Coming from you, dear, I'll take that as a compliment.

"Or maybe you're just hallucinatory. Or you're just making stuff up because you haven't got anything solid to say."

Dear heart, since you're the one making the claims, it behooves you to actually support them with something resembling data, logic, and reason. Thus far, you have entirely failed to do so.

"I never said 'loudly and publicly.' You made that up. Obama: 'Naah, I left that church several years ago. Got fed up with the pastor, Rev. Wright. He's done some great community work with the congregation, but he's way too radical and confrontational. Not at all my style of thinking.'"

Dear heart, the coincidence of him doing this just as he's running for president would be immediately obvious. And it would not change the fact that he sat in the congregation for 20 years. Sorry, but your little scenario just doesn't fly. Obama was going to get hit on this no matter what.

"Reading comprehension again. I said he should have quit the church when he first started thinking about running for president. That wasn't just a few months before starting his campaign."

Um, yes, actually, it was.

"And reading comprehension again. I'm echoing Obama's own words"

ROFL.... No, dear, you're not. You're not even trying to make sense any more, are you?

"ROTFL! How could I 'demonstrate' such a thing? By creating an alternate reality, perhaps, in which he did know it, quit, and got elected?"

No, dear, by using logic, reason, and data -- concepts that are doubtless foreign to you. Right now, you are arguing by assertion and utterly failing to make your case. Classic logical fallacy.

"Non sequitur. They haven't been 20-year pastors of the first viable black presidential candidate."

So? It's still a few out-of-context sound bites when stacked up against the output of a 30-year ministry.

"And laughing your ass off without actually rebutting anything doesn't make it false."

Dear heart, when you utterly fail to back up your assertions, I see no point in doing anything other than pointing out to you that you utterly failed to back up your assertions.

"None of those advisers or campaign-tenders, however, realized the danger Wright posed either, so they aren't all that good."

ROFL.... Which is why he's beating Clinton. Oh, and you do know that political judgment and policy judgment are two separate things, right?

This was just more of the same, by the way -- just endless assertions wholly devoid of content. You can't even be bothered to actually think before you post, can you?

The Pathologically Anti-BHObots here aren't engaged in anything very coherent or substantive. Just a rough psychological game designed to create despair in the Obama camp by touting Hillary's storied balls and Obama's, um, skirt. What did who, Gerald, say upthread?

Here. I found it. Perfect.

Get over yourselves Obamabots. The Precious is doomed. He has feet of clay and he is a pussy. Hillary has bigger balls and knows how to swing them. Obambi couldn't crush a fly. He's a wimp who has to be bolstered by his women, i.e. Grandma, Wife, Oprah. Caroline Kennedy. Put a skirt on him and send him back to San Francisco.

Typical ad hominem nonsense, but part of a psychological game that attempts to build on the Daughter of Scranton narrative that was so successful for Hillary in Pennsylvania. You have to admire the viciousness and shamelessness of the effort. Very impressive.

Obama is still the best candidate to unite people and defeat McCain.

slave abuse may be an abstraction to him

Americans understand the American slave experience in many ways. My European middle class peers think the slaves were freed about 150 years ago, ending slavery and any associated experience. Older folks whose parents immigrated to the US after the Civil War don't think about the slave experience, and think they and their parents had greater adversity assimilating in America than Blacks. Probably some older Blacks, like the Rev. Wright, knew grandparents who had been slaves or knew the family stories of their ancestors abuse. The Civil Rights era increased education of the slave and Black experience, which has affected a some people. A few of those affected by the American slave and Black experience have a deep empathy for the crimes committed by the nation against this group of citizens and they want to educate their fellow citizens to the heinous abuse these people suffered.

Suffering the kind of abuse as a population that Blacks did greatly affects future generations through family dysfunction. I have used child rape as an example of the American slave experience because not only is it extremely horrific, but because of what it does to the psyche of the victim. No one knows how many slave children were abused in this way, but even if they were not, the childhood slave experience of a lucky slave like Frederick Douglass can be understood affecting generations of families. Wives, husbands and children were separated at the auction block. That kind of abuse needed lots of therapy and charity, which was hardly even offered until a hundred years after emancipation.

Formal reparations should be made to the descendants of slaves to replace the surplus capital that was not handed down from their ancestors that earned so much wealth for the nation. Rents could be paid to the ex-slave population from rents of public buildings built with slave labor. Many Southern states' capitols were built with state labor, and I think the US Capitol was, too. Why not pay rent for these building for a hundred years to the descendants of slaves?

condi rice:

"No one could have predicted that Reverend Wright's speeches would slam into Barack Obama."

as one would hope you would know, condi, a candidate with a scintilla of judgement could have predicted EXACTLY that.

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