You are being very unfair. The old prince did have to find health care for a few months between 1981 and 1982. Maybe he went bare.

It'll never work. Someone will ask what kind of health care Rev Wright has and then we'll be on that for days.

I could see you saying he is coddled because of the health plan he gets being a senator. I can't see disparging him because he got health care under the military plan - everyone who serves deserves that, if not better.

That should be disparaging. Sorry.

I wouldn't use coddled either but I think Ezra is exactly right, "no wonder John McCain thinks we have the best health care in the world, his whole life it's been provided by the federal government! If the federal government is good enough for John McCain's healthcare, isn't it good enough for yours?"

Similarly, this could make a great ad, just show various clips of John McCain praising America's healthcare, alternating with his personal healthcare timeline.

OK, so "coddled" isn't the right word. But out of touch because he's spent his whole life with government-run healthcare. And "coddled" is doubly wrong because we're advocating for everyone to be assured of access to healthcare -- which is not the same as being coddled.

Yes. Good for Ezra.

Except John McCain went to the U.S. Naval Academy.

And the senator from Arizona seems a tad touchy on this issue. When asked about health care (was it on This Week, by George?), he laughed nervously as his reply rambled to a close and added that for several years he'd received health care courtesy "another country."

The POW shtick, he hoped, would get him off the hook. It just looked dishonest, or too cute by half, to this viewer.

Geee....

Does anyone really think the average American knows what the word "coddled" means or that they use that term in conversation?

Wouldn't it be better to use the approach Kerry (who actually WON the stolen election of 2004) and make statements that the American people deserve at least the same high-quality care that our public servants like McCain, Congressmen, the President, and Vice-President get.

Sure - people want more, the private sector can offer additional coverage.

With McCain's plan everybody will not only end up paying different premiums for care, everybody is going to get charged different prices depending upon what "private plan" you happen to be with. It will force people into smaller pools where they can get pinched far easier. Medical services all have different pricing here depending on what insurance you carried. Just a tidbit, but I noticed that in just the past few months Walgreen's doesn't publish Rx prices online anymore. Why? Because you are going to pay more depending on what plan you've got, and even MORE if you don't have any insurance at all. More ill-intentioned corporate information opacity. We truly are moving fully towards oligarchy.

Clueless liberal: "That's how the game is played"

Wow. McCain coddled, huh? That's so incredibly ridiculous. What do you think would happen if Obama or Clinton "played" that? We're to believe that these Harvard/Yale Law types have led hardscrabble lives compared with a guy who dedicated his early life to the armed forces? That had his arms broken and re-broken by is Vietnamese "doctors"?

Oh, yeah, his years in Hanoi Hilton is a "schtick". Please, please, please let's play it like that. Really, do let's.

"...the military's care continued until he retired from the service in 1981."

Actually, one of McCain's military retirement benefits is military care under the CHAMPUS/TRICARE system. Plus all of his military related health conditions would have been taken care of by the VA at no cost.

And since he is now qualified for MEDICARE, he is covered by TRICARE for Life.

Key features of TRICARE For Life include:

* Minimal out-of-pocket costs (aside from Medicare part B premium).
o No enrollment fees for TFL. But, you must purchase Medicare Part B and pay monthly premiums to be eligible for TFL.
* Coordination of benefits between Medicare and TRICARE
o TRICARE is the secondary payer for all services covered by both TRICARE and Medicare.
o TRICARE is the primary payer for those services covered only by TRICARE.
o Additional steps may be required in order to coordinate benefits if you have other health insurance in addition to TRICARE and Medicare.
* Freedom to manage your own health care
o No assigned primary care manager.
o Visit any Medicare provider.
o Receive care at a military treatment facility on a space-available basis.
* No claims to file (in most cases).
o Your provider files your claim with Medicare
o Medicare processes the claims
o Medicare forwards it electronically to TRICARE.

It would be interesting to compare TRICARE for Life to McCain's plan.

optical weenie on April 30, 2008 at 12:52 PM:

I can't see disparging him because he got health care under the military plan - everyone who serves deserves that, if not better.

..*smacks head*..

No, weenie, we're disparaging him because his proposal regarding health care for us is pretty much the opposite of what he enjoyed for most of his life.

I could see you saying he is coddled because of the health plan he gets being a senator. I can't see disparging him because he got health care under the military plan - everyone who serves deserves that, if not better.

You're missing the point. The point about his health care under the Navy is that it's socialized health care delivered by the government at taxpayer cost -- the very thing Prince John says no-one else should have.

We're to believe that these Harvard/Yale Law types have led hardscrabble lives compared with a guy who dedicated his early life to the armed forces?

The difference is these Harvard/Yale Law types are saying that everyone else should as good care as they do. McCain is saying no one else should have as good care as he does. They think everyone should be better off, he thinks everyone should be worse off. That's the difference.

But has he read Niebuhr, like Sen. Hussein has? Now that is out of touch!

..*smacks head*..

Ouch, I concede. I wasn't really paying attention to him saying everyone shouldn't get government run health care.

Well, to be at least sorta fair about it, the reason McCain was getting that government health care at taxpayer cost was because he *was* either the dependent of a service member or *was* a service member himself.

You know, he was actually *serving in* the Navy. In that respect, as the Army told me when I was in the Army, my medical care (not that I needed it at the time) was part of my 'total compensation' along with pay, rations and quarters.

In return, I, like the Senator, only had to train to fight and kill the enemies of the United States, as determined and authorized by the President and Congress. And of course, risk my life doing so.

So yeah, go yell at him about his government subsidized health care.

And if any of you don't think Obama and Clinton aren't a prince and princess right now, you're not paying attention.

We're to believe that these Harvard/Yale Law types have led hardscrabble lives compared with a guy who dedicated his early life to the armed forces?

So being born a Navy brat to a Navy father now counts as "dedicating his early life to the armed forces"?

What the hell is this, Imperial Rome? He was born into the Navy and therefore had to dedicate his life to it until he was too broken for them to use anymore? Does being born into a Navy family -- or any other branch of the armed forces -- now create an obligation for that child to enter the armed forces him/herself?

And here I thought slavery was banned by the Constitution. Silly me.

not now, a guy who's never had to worry about paying for health insurance for him and his kids is coddled, compared to the rest of us.

You wanna play who's had an easier time with health insurance issues, career military scion of Navy admirals vs. employee of a small-time landscaper? Bring it on.

The question is, are we going to get government health insurance of the kind McCain has had, or not? If not, why not?

In return, I, like the Senator, only had to train to fight and kill the enemies of the United States, as determined and authorized by the President and Congress. And of course, risk my life doing so.

So you support free healthcare for firefighters, police officers, nurses, and their dependents, right? After all, these are all people who risk their lives every day to preserve the lives of American citizens.

The obvious question seems to be "Senator, if private sector healthcare is so wonderful, why is your family using government coverage?"

But honestly, I'm practically beyond caring at this point. Call me up when we finally get angry enough to line the MSM against a wall and I'll show up with a gun and lots of ammo.

Oh, yeah, his years in Hanoi Hilton is a "schtick". Please, please, please let's play it like that. Really, do let's.

not now, but it is schtick, a hackneyed device, that McCain reached for by reflex, defensively and awkwardly, in that interview. I noticed it with interest. (Alternatively, it could be his North Vietnamese "health care" crack is how he's has been prepared to respond to the imminent attacks on his character and his largely coddled life.)

Yes, a thousand times, the man served honorably and was a POW. But too-cute references to his so-called health care courtesy North Vietnam--allusions that work in American Legion halls-- won't cut it with most Americans living with a tortured and broken health care system.

In short, McCain hasn't a clue, hence the schtick. I can't wait to see him in a General Election debate with Obama on health care.

Oh, yeah, his years in Hanoi Hilton is a "schtick". Please, please, please let's play it like that. Really, do let's.

not now, but it is schtick, a hackneyed device, that McCain reached for by reflex, defensively and awkwardly, in that interview. I noticed it with interest. (Alternatively, it could be his North Vietnamese "health care" crack is how he's has been prepared to respond to the imminent attacks on his character and his largely coddled life.)

Yes, a thousand times, the man served honorably and was a POW. But too-cute references to his so-called health care courtesy North Vietnam--allusions that work in American Legion halls-- won't cut it with most Americans living with a tortured and broken health care system.

In short, McCain hasn't a clue, hence the schtick. I can't wait to see him in a General Election debate with Obama on health care.

I think it comes down to this: Hillary's health care plan seems best. Obama's, pretty good, and probably more likely to pass. McCain's is downright stupid and, given his personal experience, simply dishonest.

Thus, a case can be made for supporting Hillary or Obama, but no case can be made for supporting McCain.

Ouch, I concede.

Misphrase on my part. Smacking my own head, not yours, weenie.

Ref all of the Hanoi Hilton comments, we need to remember that while McCain was a POW, his first wife and their children were all receiving free health care from the Navy. Even if he wasn't benefiting from "government health care" his family was.

Bingo! Ezra hit it out of the park with that post. It's all about framing - who is the real elitist in this election? Why, it's John McCain and his trophy wife, the Beer Queen!

Learn from Karl Rove - Attack this slimeball where he is perceived to be strong....

Speaking of Beer Queens ... here's an email that was forwarded to me this am - name removed for privacy.

Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 3:33 pm
Subject: FW: Comments From Denmark
Subject: Comments From Denmark

'We in Denmark cannot figure out why you are even bothering to hold an election.

On one side, you have a Bitch who is a lawyer, married to a lawyer . . . and

A lawyer who is married to a Bitch who is a lawyer.

On the other side, you have a war hero married to a good looking woman with big tits who owns a beer distributorship.

Is there a contest here?

Con Def is absolutely correct. Democrats should not simply concede that Mr. McCain is above criticism and a man of perhaps "towering" moral stature, despite his multiple forays into flip-flopping and pandering.

This health care debate is one way to attack his supposed stengths. I doubt the Dems have the cajones, and it may not work minus the Republican echo-chamber, but it may be worth pointing out that John McCain graduated in the bottom 1% of his class and was a god-awful pilot, crashing 5 planes before the crash that landed him in a VietCong prison cell.

If the Dems don't even attempt to attack McCain in the same way John Kerry was, they will likely go down to defeat. Defeating any Republican will be difficult with the corporate media already in the tank, but defeating John McCain will be even more difficult as ostensibly liberal journalists can't get enough of that ol' fashioned BBQ.

"There is nothin' like a Dane"

optical weenie, only the Danish would say something like that. Belgians would point out that she's responsible for producing bad beer.

Tyro,
Yeah Belgian beer is better. But do Belgians have bit tits?

Touché, optical weenie. Touché.

Touché, optical weenie. Touché.

Bad beer?

Speaking of beer....

How many do you glug down before you type "bit tits" and think you're making sense?

I doubt the Dems have the cajones, and it may not work minus the Republican echo-chamber, but it may be worth pointing out that John McCain graduated in the bottom 1% of his class and was a god-awful pilot, crashing 5 planes before the crash that landed him in a VietCong prison cell.

I believe that single-handedly destroying five American planes qualified him for "Ace" status in the North Vietnamese Air Force....

I tried to correct my typo right after I made it but the blog wouldn't let me post so soon after my comment.

Okay ..... sorry not bit tits, but big tits.

Haven't had a tipple yet today. And this was a minor brain issue, it's not like, afterall, I have gone out and bought a Ford Extinction to drive around.

"We're to believe that these Harvard/Yale Law types have led hardscrabble lives compared with a guy who dedicated his early life to the armed forces?"

Since that is the game that the Republican Party has routinely played against Democrats (e.g., Gore, Edwards, etc.), I don't see any reason to not play it against the Republican candidate, particularly since, in this case, it happens to be quite true. Not to mention that McCain has tried this same tactic against Obama.

McCain is indeed haughty, "elitist", and completely out of touch with the needs and issues of the American voter. I'm all in favor of saying so, loudly and repeatedly.

All is forgiven, if you'll agree with me that Stefan at 3:12 should win the thread!

"That's the way to play the game." Yeah, it is.
drjimcooper and others have offered very interesting variations on the theme.

Now let's find us a Democrat with the courage to actually play the game.

I haven' seen one yet. Everyone wants to be the "nice guy".

Yes, this is an area where McCain can be portrayed as completely out of touch with the average American.

If he ever faces an even slightly adversarial questioner (in a debate or interview) the thing to do is start by asking if he is happy with the health care he has received over his lifetime. If he answers yes, then point out he has had government paid health care for his entire life and ask him why he is trying to tell the American people it would be a miserable failure for them to get it too.

You and Klein should note that for 5 years the government running the health care which Sen McCain enjoyed was the government of the People's Republic of Vietnam. Now given his standard of comparison, it is still less surprising that he thinks so highly of US care.

I think Klein does a better job than, uhm, Drum, in pointing out that McCain has no experience of the problems many Americans have with health care and has never dealt with a profit making insurance company. He has not, however, been a coddled princeling for his entire life. McCain is clueless and out of touch yes. Has been coddled except for 5 years of his life maybe. Had it easy his whole life ? Don't go there.

McCain's health plan would affect me personally since I receive good benefits from my employer. I am afraid that people with existing conditions would not be able to find a health plan. I am also concerned that the tax credit is not high enough. A Huffington Post entry put the average employer cost of health at about $11,000 per person.

Aaaargh! Once and for all, the issue is pretty clear:

1) McCain raves about American health care as being the best in the world.
2) McCain has only ever known government health care.
3) McCain say government run health care is awful.

You can quibble over whether he got it through his parents, or because he was serving in the military and Congress, but those are distractions. How he got it is not the issue. Nor is the issue whether or not our soldiers deserve this care (obviously they do). The issue is that he says two entirely contradictory things.

This issue saddens me. My mom works at NWA and thus is about to lose her job at age 57. Without a degree, it is questionable she will be able to find employment that will provide her the health care coverage she needs. My dad, who WAS retired and is 65, has gone back to work because she needs coverage. Every day I hear about people who are basically slaves to the health care system. They can't take a job they like, they can't start their own business, they can't retire...

I just ribbed my Reagan loving, supply-side dad about this. Told him if he'd been open to health care reform during Clinton, he might still be retired. He got all his tax cuts all those years. Now he's paying for them.

There is no need to even mention McCain's class status or the number of aircraft he crashed - the MSM will simply frame it as attempts to denigrate McCain's military service. And to be frank, neither of those points have anything to do with healthcare.
We need to point out, again and again and again, that McCain has spent his entire life, from childhood on, with the government paying for his healthcare. He has never had to worry about deductibles, co-pays, or premiums for him OR his family. He has never had to worry about losing his insurance.
If a government-run health service is good enough for the people we elect to serve us, then why isn't it good enough for those that pay for it?

I agree with Doug on the dangers of denigrating McCain's military service. These attacks are unhelpfully reframed and lobbed back as remarks of soldier- (and aviator-) hatin' lefties.

Slightly OT but on the topic of McCain's "coddling" and elitism: Regarding these three crashes, I would be interested to read the USN accident investigation reports. Also of interest would be paperwork documenting the US Navy's decision to return a physically disabled McCain to flight status. This doesn't happen, as a rule.

Not to go too far into the weeds on his plane crashes (and I'm not a student of McCain's flying career), my recollection is that the "crashed five aircraft" figure is inaccurate. McCain crashed three. He lost one in an accident aboard the Forrestal. He was shot down by enemy fire over North Vietnam, leading to his capture and imprisonment.

So being born a Navy brat to a Navy father now counts as "dedicating his early life to the armed forces"?
I doubt the Dems have the cajones, and it may not work minus the Republican echo-chamber, but it may be worth pointing out that John McCain graduated in the bottom 1% of his class and was a god-awful pilot, crashing 5 planes before the crash that landed him in a VietCong prison cell.
I believe that single-handedly destroying five American planes qualified him for "Ace" status in the North Vietnamese Air Force....

I am a Navy man, 39, still in the Reserves. I voted for GHWB in 1988 (before I knew any better) then for Clinton twice, followed by Gore and Kerry. I have been grinding my teeth waiting for Bush and Cheney to leave office since the recount debacle started in 2000. I have always opposed the Iraq war and wrote to all my elected officials, including Bush & Cheney, urging them not to let it happen during the Fall of 2002. I have driven a Honda Civic Hybrid manual transmission (gets 49.9 mpg) since 2004, and I will be installing a solar PV/water heater heating system on my house in the near future because of my concerns about global warming. I support universal health care for everybody, not just the military. And so a McCain presidency would be poisonous to me and to my family on several policy grounds. I am a liberal.

Unlike many of you, I have been separated from my wife and children by orders to active duty (not Iraq). Listen up—when you’re away from home on military duty, there is nothing worse than knowing the toll that being away from your children takes on THEM. When my wife urged me not to fly home for a weekend because it took my kids a very difficult two weeks to adjust to me being gone, it hurt. Hearing that my daughter has finally stopped being shy and withdrawn in her preschool class now that I’m home again does not make me feel great about the next time I will go away. The fact is that a lot of the sacrifices I make to be a part of the Navy are borne by my family. That’s a sore point with me.

Mnemosyne, Tyro, paxr55, Piper, Stefan. Please, as someone who desperately wants a Democratic Commander In Chief, I urge you to STFU regarding anything related to military service until sometime in mid-2009. Having your grandfather work himself to death during WWII, as McCain did, and having your dad disappear for months at a time on a submarine, as McCain did, do in fact constitute involuntary sacrifices in the man’s early life whether you like it or not. And McCain SERVED, period. There are no points to be earned by sliming him with innuendo about his professional life before Congress. We are better than that—at least I am. There’s no GWB-style wiggling out of his duty obligations in his Navy record. If he cheated the paperwork to return to flight status, that’s working his ass off to get back in the mix, not shirking, for God’s sake.

This man gave you the Keating Five scandal. He cheated on the woman who faithfully waited FIVE YEARS for him to return while he was a POW. Now he’s married to a much younger gazillionairess but released tax returns on a mere $400K of income. He worked his ass off to get W re-elected despite knowing to the depths of his soul that W wasn’t up to the job. He doesn’t know or care one whit about economic policy, and his foreign policy is primitive even by medieval standards. The style of his oratory makes him sound like the voice of reason, circa 1830, but my friends, the Era of Good Feelings is over. His tax policy is Paris Hilton’s dream and my nightmare. He flip-flopped on torture, the one area I where thought he might be going to make a real difference five years ago. The guy has a temper that makes me think he shouldn’t go anywhere near the nuclear football.

Hit him there. Or accuse him of forgetting all the guys who maintained his planes after he left the service and got so comfortable and cozy in the Hart building. Caricature him as the guy who believes the point of being an American is that you will have the chance to further national greatness through an unending series of conflicts abroad. I’m not into the myth of St. John by any means.

But unless YOUR father deployed when you really needed him at home, and unless you’ve had to leave YOUR family for months on end, you really shouldn’t go there. You don’t know shit about what it means to choose a life of sacrifice and service to the country if you’re honestly trying to paint him as a child of privilege.

Here's what I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kerMm0HG1mk