Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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May 21, 2008
By: Kevin Drum

YET MORE HAGEE....According to pastor John Hagee, whose endorsement John McCain says he's glad to have, the Holocaust was God's way of punishing European Jews for not emigrating to Israel quickly enough and Hitler was His divine instrument for getting this done. Charming. Audio here. Unfortunately, AIPAC and likeminded organizations long ago made their peace with crazy Christian preachers who support Israeli expansion because Armageddon needs a proper battleground, and this means they're unlikely to insist that McCain repudiate Hagee. Quite the contrary, in fact. They like Hagee.

Of course, this whole thing is just garden variety white crazy, and the audio clip is more than five seconds long, which means that neither Sean Hannity nor CNN will play it on a 24/7 loop. I guess that leaves it up to the mighty blogosphere to draw attention to it.

Kevin Drum 7:13 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (35)

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Comments

I remember reading that Menachem Begin justified accepting support from the extreme religious right types by saying that, if Jesus returned to Earth, he'd be the first one to worship Him. The subtext, of course, is that Begin didn't believe that would happen.

Posted by: Lev on May 21, 2008 at 7:22 PM | PERMALINK

White Crazy is _awesome_.

Where would we be without White Crazy?

1. The American South would be a technological center with high paying jobs and organic yak farms.

2. No sitcoms

3. No Britney Spears, George W. Bush or Vanilla Ice.

We can only dream.

Posted by: BombIranForChrist on May 21, 2008 at 7:28 PM | PERMALINK

At a dinner last weekend with some dear Jewish friends (a generally liberal couple), I was shocked to hear the racist rants coming from them when the topic of Presidential politics and Senator Obama came up! They claimed their information came from "Time" magazine; however, the talking points repeated sounded like it was straight from Fox "news". I've sent this couple articles from "The Forward" and the Tom Friedman article from the Sunday NYT, but they seem intent on believing that Obama is anti-Semitic. Who's creating this?????

Posted by: Seriously?? on May 21, 2008 at 7:33 PM | PERMALINK

Has anyone submitted 'John Hagee' yet to this site?

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/

He would fit *right in* there....

Posted by: Richard on May 21, 2008 at 7:34 PM | PERMALINK

Say it together now, "Looks like John McCain's Chickens...are comin home....to rooooost!"

Right guys? Right? Hello? Hello?

Posted by: enozinho on May 21, 2008 at 7:36 PM | PERMALINK

You need video to really make it stick.

Audio isn't good enough to get mega Youtube hits.

Sorry.

Posted by: tomtom on May 21, 2008 at 7:45 PM | PERMALINK

Lev >"...The subtext, of course, is that Begin didn't believe that would happen."

Sounds about right (no pun intended).

So how are these people going to react when Capt. Picard shows up w/7of9 & oodles of photon torpedos ?

"...you cannot save your face and your ass at the same time..." - vachon@shadrach.net

Posted by: daCascadian on May 21, 2008 at 7:49 PM | PERMALINK

Richard,

Done.

Posted by: Matt on May 21, 2008 at 8:15 PM | PERMALINK

In ye olden dayes, YHWH would light a fire under the Hebrews by, oh, appointing a leader to guide them to the Promised Land. The bad guys chasing after them? Divinely smited by the Red Sea, or so the story goes.

Apparently the Almighty never uses the same trick twice.

Posted by: Grumpy on May 21, 2008 at 8:22 PM | PERMALINK

BIFC: "Where would we be without White Crazy?
2. No sitcoms"

You're counting all the Jewish comedy writers as White Crazy?

Posted by: Grumpy on May 21, 2008 at 8:25 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sure Abe Foxman and the ADL will get right after McCain for being associated with Hagee.

Posted by: kaleidescope on May 21, 2008 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINK

What would really be interesting is if Hagee allows himself to be interviewed (or speaks to the Washington Press Club?) and basically repeats the same theme and defends it. Now that would trump the Wright controversy big time.

Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station on May 21, 2008 at 8:57 PM | PERMALINK

One could say that this would be an anti-Semitic charge. But since only AIPAC and ADL have the right to determine what is or is not hate speech, I guess we'll have to wait for them to decide.

Posted by: Steve W. on May 21, 2008 at 9:10 PM | PERMALINK


Bizarro World continues....


Jane, get me off this crazy thing.

Posted by: Jet on May 21, 2008 at 9:10 PM | PERMALINK

Another Hagee quote from Kevin's link:

"We are a pagan nation where we are re-birthing Sodom and Gomorah"

Pretty damning, ha ha. Nice short soundbite. Alas, audio only. You need the video to really make a splash.

The problem isn't just that white maniacs are OK. The problem is that with Wright there was VIDEO with nice short soundbites. TV does not want audio. They need video. They don't want something obscure and long-winded; they need pithy soundbites. Wright was good television. So far Hagee is not.

It isn't just racism or media bias, it is ratings and what makes for good TV

Posted by: on May 21, 2008 at 9:23 PM | PERMALINK

Unfortunately, AIPAC and likeminded organizations long ago made their peace with crazy Christian preachers who support Israeli expansion because Armageddon needs a proper battleground, and this means they're unlikely to insist that McCain repudiate Hagee.

What's a little fire & brimstone between friends? Anyway, it gets the Bible thumpers to quit with the Christ-killer schtick. In public, anyway.

Posted by: junebug on May 21, 2008 at 9:33 PM | PERMALINK

Remember, the reason that the Christian Right is never screamed about on the media 24/7 is simply because they are in fact, insane and powerful.

Their are large segments of Americans that agree with Hagee, and are perfectly willing (at least in the minds of the media owners) to let them know about it with their wallets and by changing the channel.

Posted by: MNPundit on May 21, 2008 at 9:55 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, please stop this idiotic farce.

When you have some evidence that John McCain put Hagee into a position of authority over his own children for multiple years then sure, feel free to start again.

Posted by: a on May 21, 2008 at 10:14 PM | PERMALINK

When you have some evidence that John McCain put Hagee into a position of authority over his own children for multiple years then sure, feel free to start again.

Rev. Wright used to babysit Obama's kids? I guess I missed that newsflash.

Posted by: Mnemosyne on May 21, 2008 at 10:25 PM | PERMALINK

"I remember reading that Menachem Begin justified..."

If you were around back then to see Begin in action, you just know the rest is going to be heartless and cynical. Makes Bush look like an liberal idealist.

Posted by: Bob M on May 21, 2008 at 11:09 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking of Begin, wasn't Bush just at the celebration for the terrorists who won?

Posted by: natural cynic on May 22, 2008 at 12:16 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin, Why don't you just face it this dog won't hunt. Did John McCain go to Hagee's church for 20 years????

No. This story only impresses liberals. Its got no legs.


Posted by: John Hansen on May 22, 2008 at 12:35 AM | PERMALINK

I don't think it does Obama any favors to keep bringing up religious nutjobs. Bob Herbert had a very passionate, moving series of articals a few months back about Ronald Reagan; denouncing Reagan's stupidity in starting his campaign in Philadelphia, MS and talking about state's rights -- it seems to me Jeremiah Wright is Obama's mirror image corollary. Reagan and Obama were/are basically genial and good natured, but both appear to be blind to the implications of their tolerance of their more extreme supporters. McCain, for all his deficiencies, would never have sat in Hagee's church, or allowed his children to be dunked in that moral cesspool week after week. Hagee, and his congregation, at their worst would not have laughed and chortled about 911 while families were still going from hospital to hospital looking for the missing. Trying to compare the two just shows how out of touch the Kevin Drum's and the Josh Marshall's are with mainstream opinion, and it doesn't do Obama any favors. Just drop the issue please.

Posted by: loki on May 22, 2008 at 12:57 AM | PERMALINK

McCain SOUGHT Hagee's support and the that of the 18,000 members of his congregation. Hagee's beliefs were well documented on Frontline on PBS. View it on the Web.

Rev. Wright said God would condemn (damn) killing the Native Americans, slavery, and the bombing the civilian cities in Japan. Don't you agree?

Or should we just Sugar Coat our History?

Posted by: deejaayss on May 22, 2008 at 1:18 AM | PERMALINK

I know who I'd like to see Hagee meet...

"According to Neturei Karta, it is a sin, an affront against God, for Jews to establish a Jewish State in the Land of Israel. They believe that Jews must wait for the Messiah to bring about the end of the Jewish exile from their Promised Land." [ http://judaism.about.com/od/denominationsofjudaism/a/netureikarta.htm ]

Posted by: Forrest on May 22, 2008 at 4:28 AM | PERMALINK

djass,

McCain also asked for the Mormon's endorsement in Utah, but that doesn't mean he's going to prance around in green underwear. Asking a politician to count the votes he doesn't want is a little too stringent in our culture, and trying to make some lame comparison to Obama's year's long complacency in the face of Wright's vicious wackiness just hurts our side's credibility. The best policy on this issue is let Obama's repudiation be the last word.

Posted by: loki on May 22, 2008 at 7:30 AM | PERMALINK

I just don't find this very shocking. Maybe the Israeli lobby is just over sensitive. I don't like that old fart McCain, but this association will not damage him among white middle class independents the way "God Damn America" will damage his opponent.

Posted by: rbe1 on May 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM | PERMALINK

"No. This story only impresses liberals. Its got no legs."

Not denied then. Running from harmful stories is never a good idea, and not too inspiring for a presidential candidate.

Posted by: Bob M on May 22, 2008 at 8:00 AM | PERMALINK

The things Hagee says are major slanders against God. It is hard for me to see how anyone who genuinely loves God would want to be associated with someone like that.

Posted by: david1234 on May 22, 2008 at 9:13 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin, there is certainly a comparison between Hagee and Wright in terms of batshit-craziness. But there is NO comparison in terms of the relationship between Obama and Wright (Wright was his chief spiritual advisor and pastor for most of his adult life, married him, baptized his children; Obama went to his church pretty much weekly when he was in Illinois, but later claimed to be shocked -- shocked! -- at Wright's racist ravings) and McCain and Hagee (Hagee was one more right-wing crazy McCain pandered to).

You've tried to draw this comparison before; it's just not there. All politicians pander to strange and sometimes disgusting bedfellows, although McCain does seem to be especially aggressive in that regard. But the Obama-Wright link is different; Obama CHOSE to incorporate this lunatic into his life on a very personal scale, and at a very pronounced level.

Posted by: eparker on May 22, 2008 at 10:08 AM | PERMALINK

It's quite interesting to read some comments here about why this is not important and in the same breath lash out at Obama.

I seem to remember people asking Obama about Luis Farrakhan's endorsement and how that was a big deal even though Obama did not seek or accept the endorsement.

Obama is being vilified for the so called ‘association’ with Bill Ayers and yet we can't talk about McSame seeking an endorsement from this certified lunatic.

Posted by: GOD on May 22, 2008 at 11:11 AM | PERMALINK

McCain has long since repudiated Hagee.

“It’s nonsense, it’s nonsense, it’s nonsense, it’s nonsense, it’s nonsense. I don't have anything additional to say. It’s nonsense, it’s nonsense, it’s nonsense, I don’t have anything more to say….it’s nonsense. I reject it categorically.”

Posted by: James Joyner on May 22, 2008 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK

Dear loki:

Are you saying McCain is an opportunist?

Would it be too much to ask McCain to seek the vote of rationalists, scientists, and other reasonable people, instead of religious fanatics?

If you don't agree that Rev. Wright was saying that God condemns(damns)genocide against Native American, slavery of Africans, and the bombing of civilians by previous American administrations, just say so. You don't have to call him names.


Posted by: deejaayss on May 22, 2008 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Recently Frank Rich of the New York Times try to make a comparison between Obama's Reverend Wright situation and John Hagee backing McCain. this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Don't believe me? Check out this article Another Comparison Between John Hagee and Jeremiah Wright.

Posted by: Matt on May 23, 2008 at 2:05 AM | PERMALINK

Recently Frank Rich of the New York Times try to make a comparison between Obama's Reverend Wright situation and John Hagee backing McCain. this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Don't believe me? Check out this article Another Comparison Between John Hagee and Jeremiah Wright.

Posted by: Matt on May 23, 2008 at 2:08 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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