Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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May 31, 2008
By: Hilzoy

UMMM.....

I briefly considered driving down to DC to check out the protests at the DNC meeting, but thought better of it. But Eve Fairbanks was there:

"Howard Dean may hope that the "healing will begin today," but two blocks away from the northwest Washington Marriott where the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is meeting right now to try to figure out Florida and Michigan, the Hillary protesters are occupying an utterly alternate (and healing-free) universe: a universe in which one of the big lawn rally's speakers yells that the Democratic Party no longer is in the business of "promoting equality and fairness for all"; in which a Hillary supporter with two poodles shouts, "Howard Dean is a leftist freak!"; in which a man exhibits a sign that reads "At least slaves were counted as 3/5ths a Citizen" and shows Dean whipping handcuffed people; and in which Larry Sinclair, the Minnesota man who took to YouTube to allege that Barack Obama had oral sex with him in the back of a limousine in 1999, is one of the belles of the ball.

"They almost made me cry this morning when they told me to get out of there," the blond Sinclair--who's looking roly-poly and giddy in a blue-and-white striped shirt with a pack of Marlboros protruding from the breast pocket--says, referring to several nervous protest organizers who tried to evict him when he first showed up at the rally site early this morning carrying a box of "Obama's DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS: Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" fliers. Since then, though, he goes on, "I have been totally surprised by the reception I have received!"

He's not kidding. Clusters of people in Hillary shirts ask to take their photo with him, one woman covered in Clinton buttons introduces him to Greta Van Susteren, and he estimates he has handed out 500 fliers. "You could improve your credibility if you downplayed the gay sex and focused on the drugs," sagely advises one Hillary supporter with auburn hair and elegant makeup. But in this universe, Sinclair's credibility doesn't seem to be suffering too much. In fact, he's treated nearly as well as he might be at a meeting of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy. In the thirty minutes I stand with him, only one woman expresses disgust at his fliers and his willingness to chattily discourse on whether Obama is "good in bed." (...)

It's easy to sink into despair here. Standing and watching all these Democrats chat up Sinclair--who's retained Montgomery Blair Sibley as his lawyer and says the Republican National Committee has also been in touch with him--makes me want to fall to my knees, rend my garments, and start insanely screaming, "Wake up! Wake up! You'll hate a President John McCain!" But the rhetoric from the top has imparted its poison below, and the bitterest criticisms of Obama gain traction as they circulate through the virulently-pro-Hillary echo chamber. "Would you rather have a president who had an affair [Bill Clinton] or one who was a murderer [Obama]?" Jeannie, the Greensboro Democrat, asks a fellow in a floppy Tilley hat and Hillary buttons. "That's a good point," he replies."

It was ugly when some Republicans seemed to seriously believe that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster and hung crack pipes from their Christmas trees. This is ugly in exactly the same way. And if I saw a story in which Obama supporters were acting like this, I'd say that was ugly too. Politics is worth being passionate about, but it's not worth losing your mind over.

Still, there's hope:

"Following instructions from Obama HQ, almost no Obama supporters have shown up to protest, amplifying the impression of the alternate Hillary universe. But around the edges, a few small signs of the other universe peek through, the one in which Barack Obama leads and most Democrats don't suspect him of multiple felonies. Inside the Marriott's gift shop, the sales clerk tells me that Democratic bumper stickers have been selling like crazy today. "Mostly Hillary?" I ask.

"Actually, mostly Obama," she giggles."

(Preemptive note: I am not saying that Clinton supporters in general have lost their minds; just that the particular Clinton supporters Fairbanks describes seem to have.)

Hilzoy 4:13 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (72)

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Comments

Sweet baby jesus...so, it's come to this, has it? People are simply nuts. I guess I've missed the Obama-is-a-murderer thing. Did he kill Vince Foster?

Posted by: jrw on May 31, 2008 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

It doesn't matter that this isn't Clinton supporters in general. It matters that they're the loudest right now. And that's how smears like the Foster thing perpetuate and influence.

They're so willing to grasp onto anything anti-Obama at this point that they're willing to latch onto the same Big Lie strategy which gave Clinton the initial bad rep she had before during the 90s. They have quite literally become what they despised, and they don't see it. And it gives everyone, the sane Clinton supporters, Obama supporters, DEMOCRATS IN GENERAL a bad name.

Posted by: Kryptik on May 31, 2008 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

I'm so happy, I'm taking ten extra Oxys today.

Posted by: rush limbaugh on May 31, 2008 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

I'm just wondering how many people are at this demonstration, and, more important, how many of the Hillary-was-robbed crowd will change their minds in time for the election.

Emotion is a powerful thing, but it can be easy to give up, particularly during its hangover. (Did I do that? Ugh...and that taste in my mouth...)

Posted by: Cheryl Rofer on May 31, 2008 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK

What is it about the Clintons that brings out the nutjobs (of all political stripes)?

Posted by: lux on May 31, 2008 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINK

If any of these people turn out to be registered Democrats I will give Larry Sinclair the blowjob of his life, without recourse to a dental dam.

Posted by: Abner Beane on May 31, 2008 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

What will Barry Obama do next week Hillary's not around to blame anymore?

Posted by: Pat on May 31, 2008 at 4:49 PM | PERMALINK

It's far better to out these kinds of people in the Democratic party, and hopefully, marginialize them as much as possible. Sadly, Hillary stirs them up into as much of a frenzy as possible, but there's little chance of marginalizing her as well.

Posted by: Quinn on May 31, 2008 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

As a person who once thought that the Clintons were the most with-it, and powerful dual in DC, I am sad. Very, very sad.

Her campaign promoted these protests and they hold some of the responsibility for the Jerry Springer-esque dimensions that are mentioned above.

I remember in the nineties defending the Clintons from attacks that they were sleazy, cheap politicians from one of the poorest states in the Union who loved themselves above all else and did not have what to took to be first couple.

I now wonder if it was worth defending them.

Posted by: Keith G on May 31, 2008 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

Preemptive note: I am not saying that Clinton supporters in general have lost their minds; just that the particular Clinton supporters Fairbanks describes seem to have.)

Hillary Clinton, or someone in her campaign, cannot not know about these people, and their bloggy equivalents, and she and her husband are doing everything they can to egg them on. "Zimbabwe".

Posted by: Jim on May 31, 2008 at 5:00 PM | PERMALINK

What will Barry Obama do next week Hillary's not around to blame anymore?
Posted by: Pat

Campaign against McCain. Finally. And win. What did you think would happen?

More appropriately asked, will YOU vote for the Democratic nominee?

Posted by: Gonads on May 31, 2008 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

"...referring to several nervous protest organizers who tried to evict him when he first showed up at the rally site early this morning carrying a box of "Obama's DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS: Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" fliers."

As someone who voted for Hillary, I'd just like to say I think Sinclair's behavior is vile. I repudiate his antics utterly.

Likewise, I reject and denounce those calling Obama a murderer. It's ridiculous.

Posted by: Doctor Jay on May 31, 2008 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

As someone else who voted for Hillary, I'd like to have my vote changed.

Posted by: Brian on May 31, 2008 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for asking, most appropriately named. I will vote for Barry.

Posted by: Pat on May 31, 2008 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

I have been following this story for months. I am in regular contact with Larry Sinclair. I just spoke to him.
I also have thouroughly researched Obama. Sinclair's allegations are believable in the context of Obama's life.
I will answer any reasonable questions.

Posted by: Citizen Wells on May 31, 2008 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

Right there with Citizen Wells....you people need to pay attention to what has gone on with Obama in his questionable past. Get your heads out of the sand.

Posted by: JoAnn Bjorkman on May 31, 2008 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Right there with Citizen Wells....you people need to pay attention to what has gone on with Obama in his questionable past. Get your heads out of the sand.

Posted by: JoAnn Bjorkman on May 31, 2008 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Larry Sinclair's allegations have been on the Internet since January 2008, AFTER first requesting the Obama campaign to come clean about Obama's bi-sexuality and crack cocaine use in 1999, long after college.

With regards to the murder of Donald Young, former openly gay choir director of Obama's church, the Chicago Police Department is currently conducting an investigation that may soon include a review of Obama's cell phone communications with Young, shortly before Young's murder right before Christmas last year.

These events are in this world, the real and seedy world of politics. Camelot was a fantasy. Sinclair is real.

Posted by: StayAlive on May 31, 2008 at 5:29 PM | PERMALINK

wells and bjorkman: go soak your heads

Posted by: cleek on May 31, 2008 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for asking, most appropriately named. I will vote for Barry.
Posted by: Pat

to be fair, had Hillary been the nominee she, too, would campaign and beat McCain once Obama was out of the picture.

Posted by: Gonads on May 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM | PERMALINK

Is it too late to move the convention to the Black Rock Desert?

Posted by: junebug on May 31, 2008 at 5:35 PM | PERMALINK

Wells, Bjorkman, and Stay Alive,

Allegations on the Internet do not resemble proof, especially that which could be put forth in a court of law. Do you have any substantiation of your allegations? I hope you realize that if not, you are skating dangerously close to libel.

Why do you choose to try to poison the well this way? I cannot understand what motivates making these scurrilous allegations.

Read Obama's speeches; read his positions. Do these comport with what you're alleging?

I support Obama, but given his and Hillary's positions, if she were (in the now extremely unlikely event) to be chosen as the Democratic nominee, I would vote for her.

And Wells, Bjorkman, and Stay Alive: you are doing Hillary NO favor by posting such things. You make it seem like Hillary's supporters are nutcases. You might want to think on that.

Posted by: Wolfdaughter on May 31, 2008 at 5:44 PM | PERMALINK

Great. Now the crazies are here.

Hey, crazy people: Understand this -- rambling conspiracy rants about Obama, sex, murder, and drug use make people think "Jesus Christ, Hillary is supported by flaming morons. Do I want to vote for someone supported by morons? God no".

The best thing you can do for your candidate is take a life-long vow of silence.

Posted by: Morat20 on May 31, 2008 at 5:55 PM | PERMALINK

It is totally unfair and evil for Billary supporters to whine about those few over the top Obama people and claim we are ALL total dicks who can't stop demonizing your candidate, but holy crap Hellary supporters are total nutcases, aren't they?

And, please stop making these specious charges against Obama without evidence that will hold up at trial and under appeal, everyone knows he's not a racist liar, like Hillary. Jeez.

Posted by: david on May 31, 2008 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

...racist, assassination-hoping liar. Sorry.

Posted by: david on May 31, 2008 at 5:59 PM | PERMALINK

Preemptive note: I am not saying that Clinton supporters in general have lost their minds

At this point, anyone that still supports Clinton, still thinks she can win, and is still fighting pretty much have lost their minds.

I have not heard a reasonable argument for supporting Clinton for a month at least. I heard arguments for her not dropping out, but nothing arguing for support.

No, I am sorry. They have lost their minds.

Posted by: ropty on May 31, 2008 at 6:02 PM | PERMALINK

Here you go:
Better candidate in GE
Vastly more effective presidency
Not a cipher
Much better policy platform
Doesn't cynically use racism charges
Actually frickin says something when she talks

I've got more

Posted by: david on May 31, 2008 at 6:09 PM | PERMALINK

These are undoubtedly wacky people, but there are people on the Obama side, too (I'm on the Obama side), who won't let you say anything positive about Hillary without being vulgarly abusive.

I wish it were not so. I wish Democrats could hold themselves to higher levels.

An Old Man

Posted by: Bob Miller on May 31, 2008 at 6:11 PM | PERMALINK

"But the rhetoric from the top has imparted its poison below, and the bitterest criticisms of Obama gain traction as they circulate through the virulently-pro-Hillary echo chamber."

Hillary went into this campaign feeling entitled to the nomination. When she discovered she had to actually earn it she quickly devolved into a slimy Republican type candidate. Now the diehards supporting her reveal what it is that attracts them to her and, consequently, who they are.

Posted by: nobodyinparticular on May 31, 2008 at 6:12 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for the list, david. Now please explain why, having lost the primary, she merits continued support.

Posted by: Gonads on May 31, 2008 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

Abner Beane: If any of these people turn out to be registered Democrats I will give Larry Sinclair the blowjob of his life, without recourse to a dental dam.

Operation Chaos continues, huh?

Posted by: Brian on May 31, 2008 at 6:16 PM | PERMALINK

I can assure you I am not a "nutcase" but someone who has a lot of experience examining various allegations in business and in politics that at first seemed hard to believe and later turned out to be true.

Does it seem strange that at no time over the last five months has Obama denied Sinclair's allegations? In the next two weeks the limo drive who introduced Obama to Sinclair and who can support Sinclair's allegations will be named publicly.

I find it difficult to trust the judgment of someone who wants to represent all of the United States and yet remained a member of a church for twenty years that spewed forth the venom and racism evidenced by Jeremiah Wright, et al. Even Oprah left after less than five years. As to Obama's positions, it appears his positions were marked with a highly disproportionate number of "present" votes in the Illinois state senate, especially when controversial issues were at stake, (See http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110009664). Alice Palmer has already experienced the bare-knuckle politics of Obama (see http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/index.html?eref=rss_politics&iref=polticker).

At the least, Barack Hussein Obama needs much more experience on the national level. Hopefully such experience will then indicate he has the judgment to be President. We cannot afford another "on-the-job" trainee for President of our beloved United States of America.

Posted by: StayAlive on May 31, 2008 at 6:21 PM | PERMALINK

StayAlive: "With regards to the murder of Donald Young, former openly gay choir director of Obama's church, the Chicago Police Department is currently conducting an investigation that may soon include a review of Obama's cell phone communications with Young, shortly before Young's murder right before Christmas last year."

About five months ago, I talked to someone on chat the very morning he died.

Let your imagination run riot! Consider the implications!

Oh, right, there aren't any.

Posted by: hilzoy on May 31, 2008 at 6:26 PM | PERMALINK

Obama does not have the delegates necessary to win the nomination. Duh.

Posted by: david on May 31, 2008 at 6:35 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, but he has substantially MORE delegates and MORE democrats voting for him than her, and it has been impossible for Clinton to win for at least 4 weeks.

so why support her? remember, this isn't zimbabwe.

Posted by: Gonads on May 31, 2008 at 6:47 PM | PERMALINK

Rules are for "girly men" Hill & Bill rule. They don't give a freak as long as they get their way. You heard it hear 1038th, Hill is done politically...they have totally f*^cked this up...why? I think they had a GWB moment..."my shit don't stink! Whatever!

Posted by: Big Pussy on May 31, 2008 at 6:49 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks Bill and Hillary for, once again, dragging the entire Democratic party through the mud in an effort to secure and retain their access to the levers of national political power.

Does anyone think that this shit would have gone on with Edwards as her opponent ?

Posted by: OhNoNotAgain on May 31, 2008 at 7:19 PM | PERMALINK

"Actually frickin says something when she talks"

Just like she said MI and FL shouldn't count.

The problem is, when she says something, you can't believe her.

Posted by: Jon H on May 31, 2008 at 7:22 PM | PERMALINK

I could have done a similar blog entry after going to the war protests in SF in 2002. Hell, I could do a story about haters at your typical Obama rally.

I understand the desire to paint ones opponents as crazies/racists/bigots but I really don't think you're doing anyone any favors.

Posted by: asdf on May 31, 2008 at 7:23 PM | PERMALINK

Obama does not have the delegates necessary to win the nomination. Duh.

He's 66 delegates short under the new numbers. Hillary is 240 short.

By Wednesday, he'll have passed the 2118 mark required to win. He needs less than 25% of the remaining delegates to win.

I don't see him having a problem getting 50%.

Posted by: Morat20 on May 31, 2008 at 7:30 PM | PERMALINK

I can assure you I am also not a "nutcase" but someone who has a lot of experience examining baseless allegations that at first seem hilariously outrageous but then devolve into the perfectly banal.

Does it not seem strange that at no time over the last five months has Hillary uttered the word "conspirateur?" Most people don't know this, but an inability to pronounce the "eur" suffix is a clear sign that the speaker is an alien from the Horsehead nebula.

I also find it difficult to trust the judgment of someone who wants to represent all of the United States and yet panders to the worst of America with flag burning amendments, censorship initiatives, moronic gas tax holiday proposals, and whole-cloth fabrications of heroic wartime escapades.

At the very least, Hillary RODHAM Clinton needs to seriously consider the importance of change and hope in this election. Hopefully if she gives America's need for change enough serious consideration, she will then indicate she has the judgment to be President. Though she will, of course, remain a pandering alien.

(Better, anyway, than a murderous traitor who is also -- gasp! -- inexperienced!)

Posted by: StayAdive on May 31, 2008 at 7:38 PM | PERMALINK

FWIW, Mark Benjamin at Salon interviewed a bunch of folks in that crowd and discovered, to his surprise, that they weren't Clinton supporters but simply people who were angry about the way the DNC has screwed up the nominating process.

It was ugly when some Republicans seemed to seriously believe that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster and hung crack pipes from their Christmas trees. This is ugly in exactly the same way. And if I saw a story in which Obama supporters were acting like this, I'd say that was ugly too.

Wow, you missed the whole RFK flap, did you, in which the Obama campaign promoted to the media the notion that Clinton had said she was staying in the race in the hope that Obama would be assassinated?

Posted by: Swift Loris on May 31, 2008 at 7:51 PM | PERMALINK

blogs mean nothing huh well you want real videos. Check out Odinga Obamas cousin in kenya go see what he did when he lost the election. did you know obamas parents had slaves? Blacks sold their own people to the amerians RACIST IS WHAT OBAMA DID TO AMERICA HE JUST BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE SURFACE

Obama is a facist pig who knows nothing more than lies.

www.obambi.com www.larrysinclair0926.wordpress.com go see the facts people

Posted by: Vickie C on May 31, 2008 at 8:06 PM | PERMALINK

Exactly where, praytell, did the Obama campaign personally push that? The media and supporters etc. were over it, but last I remember, the Obama campaign didn't touch it outside of Axlerod saying 'of course she wouldn't be wishing for that'.

Posted by: Kryptik on May 31, 2008 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

EXCUSE ME

I am sure you got your fats distorted are you an obamanut

Hillary did not say such a thing

Obama is directly involved along with others in the murder of Donald Young on Christmas Eve 2006

In fact three gay men directly involved with trinity his gay pastor's (one time lover) church choir per a private investigator in chicago

so lets vote him in to get a security clearance NO get him out of our country

www.rense.com so much to read and learn

he will not be president in our country

Posted by: on May 31, 2008 at 8:11 PM | PERMALINK

EXCUSE ME

I am sure you got your fats distorted are you an obamanut

Hillary did not say such a thing

Obama is directly involved along with others in the murder of Donald Young on Christmas Eve 2006

In fact three gay men directly involved with trinity his gay pastor's (one time lover) church choir per a private investigator in chicago

so lets vote him in to get a security clearance NO get him out of our country

www.rense.com so much to read and learn

he will not be president in our country

Posted by: vickie c on May 31, 2008 at 8:12 PM | PERMALINK

It is well known that John McCain is himself gay. How do you think he survived 12 years in a North Vietnamese Prison camp? BJs! Now, happily, Joe Lieberman is able to return the favor.

So PEOPLE get used to it! No matter what happens the White House will be GAY!!

Posted by: bob on May 31, 2008 at 8:21 PM | PERMALINK

Exactly where, praytell, did the Obama campaign personally push that?

Only in the Clintonite fever swamp.

I hope Carolyn Maloney runs for senator in 2012 and beats Hillary in the primary.

Posted by: Randy Paul on May 31, 2008 at 8:24 PM | PERMALINK

Obama was pretty smart to keep his own feverswamp in check.

Posted by: B on May 31, 2008 at 8:38 PM | PERMALINK

Exactly where, praytell, did the Obama campaign personally push that?

Right after the NY Post first reported Clinton's RFK remark on its Web site, interpreting it as a desire for Obama to be assassinated, Bill Burton of the Obama campaign emailed their press list with the "unfortunate" and "inappropriate" comment, plus a link to (or the text of, not sure which) the NY Post article (confirmed by Joan Walsh of Salon, who received the email).

Then after Olbermann made his spittle-drenched "Special Report" excoriating Clinton for the remark, the Obama campaign sent the transcript and a link to the video to their press list (confirmed by George Stephanopoulos of ABC, who received the email).

Posted by: Swift Loris on May 31, 2008 at 9:14 PM | PERMALINK

IGNORE THE TROLLS. Seriously. They're not real Hillary supporters, they're Rush's Operation Chaos idiots. Real Hillary supporters would recognize that Larry Sinclair is NO BETTER OR DIFFERENT than the Vince Foster conspiracy nutcases.

Hillary and Bill dealt with this kind of insanity for years-- only Rush's minions of idiots would try to get people to believe that Hillary's supporters are that desperate or idiotic.

Posted by: zoe from pittsburgh on May 31, 2008 at 9:18 PM | PERMALINK

Obama can be seen clearly in the background of my latest UFO film. Wake up, people.

Posted by: A on May 31, 2008 at 9:19 PM | PERMALINK

My family have Dems since FDR. My wife voted for Obama. I voted for Clinton. Along with the rest of my extended family. After the thugish tactics of Mr. Obama, the use of the race card, his associations with the Hate Mongers, Trinity and Fr. Fleger, the extreme left wing-nut jobs. My wife wants her vote back. Yes the extreme nuts have taken control of our party. Their rotten rascist tactics and turned the Core Dems off. Now they want to play nice, Screaming for unity! Reality check, too little, too late. You thugs should have though about that when you accused everyone of racism when we spoke out about Obama's faults. His lack of substance. The guy can't even response, he needs a telepromter to give his speeches. His lies, he did'nt know about Trinity. He is either stupid or liar. Know what he is both! Blacks have been duped, Obama is a blackmailed controled candidate by the powers that be. To be dumped when the truth comes out about this guy. It will, the Republicans are very good about that. Damn the economy, high gas prices, Iraq war. We will vote for John McCain. Believe me that a lot more people who feel the same why as we do. Mr. Obama has lost core groups of the Dem party. Latinos, Asians, Working class. We will see if Ms. Donna Brizle's New Dem party is goiing to win, Blks and educated guilt-ridden latte liberals. Who are hanging with the extreme left-wing and nut jobs, as Rev Wright, Flegler, Black Panther Party, William Ayers, Middle Eastern oil money-Rezko, Auchi. The most corrupted political machine in America. The Chicago Combine, the worst cesspool of political corruption. Yes character couunts..Don't think Larry Sinclair story is going to go away. Donald Young murder, gay choir director of Trinity church for 20 yrs..Did'nt you hear about the "Purple Room", testimony from the Rezko trial, regarding the use of drug, all night, all male parties, Witness Sturat Levine. He and Rezko good buds of Obama for 12-17 yrs. Uhmmmmm, wonder who else attended those crack-meth, Special K, Cocaine parties? Yes, Sinclair story makes alot more sense. We will orgainze, we will vote for John McCain. We will stand up for our country. When this is all over, we wil take back our wonderful party from the nut jobs who taken it over. We will hold the Dem establishment accountable for this mess.

Posted by: Steve on May 31, 2008 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

Tell it, Steve. He is the gay Muslim Antichrist!

Posted by: A on May 31, 2008 at 9:42 PM | PERMALINK

If you look at a Primary as a sign of how someone will run a General campaign, or even how someone will be as President there is no doubt who the better candidate is. Obama's people completely outsmarted one of the most accomplished political forces on Earth. There's no debate about that.

Posted by: Da5id on May 31, 2008 at 9:55 PM | PERMALINK

Exactly where, praytell, did the Obama campaign personally push that? Ah, the snidely offended Kryptik asks, rhetorically, how could the squeaky clean Obama campaign possibly descend to the morass of politics.
Of course when Swift Loris puts up the fact that Burton drove this story to the media, it's as if all the Obama folks are just like poor KOlberman, hardly a journalist, who sucked down that story and then displayed an insufferable ten minutes of venom on behalf of a candidate he's so in the bag for he can't think straight.
Obama is a good politician who has played a good game. He's not a saint, he's a man with an ambition to match that of Hillary and Bill put together.

Posted by: Tom M on May 31, 2008 at 10:02 PM | PERMALINK

I can not believe there are so many Dems that actually want McSame in the White House, but there you go.
If you see racism and hate everywhere, you should examine your own prejudices (don't lie to yourself, we ALL have them in us somewhere). The idea is to recognize, then overcome them.
Anyone who wants to believe that either Obama or Clinton were involved in murder are the kind of conspiracy theorists that will tell you that aliens are stealing socks from your laundry. (Everyone knows they escape under their own power. I've seen them on the side of the road, making for greener pastures. You have, too.)
The more hatred and lies we spread, the more the world will look at us as the inbred morons you think the other guy is. Our dollar is suffering enough. If you can not say something helpful to the country and the world at large, kindly keep your comments to the local bar or KKK rally. You do nothing but damage our already foundering national reputation.
Change begins within, people. Show some restraint and quit spreading lies and conspiracy bulls**t. It only makes you look stupid and demeans the cause we ALL fight for. A better America than the one we have now.
If you can't, then just admit that you don't give a damn about your children and theirs.

Posted by: DonkeyOdie on May 31, 2008 at 10:39 PM | PERMALINK

I never realized before how high toned American politics can be.

Posted by: Bob M on May 31, 2008 at 10:44 PM | PERMALINK

Kryptik asks, rhetorically, how could the squeaky clean Obama campaign possibly descend to the morass of politics.
Of course when Swift Loris puts up the fact that Burton drove this story to the media, it's as if all the Obama folks are just like poor KOlberman, hardly a journalist, who sucked down that story and then displayed an insufferable ten minutes of venom on behalf of a candidate he's so in the bag for he can't think straight.
Obama is a good politician who has played a good game. He's not a saint, he's a man with an ambition to match that of Hillary and Bill put together.

Um....what?

I never said he was a saint. But The fact of the matter is that people are trying to imply that Obama and the campaign pushed the idea that Hillary had some latent wish to see Obama assassinated because of the RFK comment.

By the time the NY Post Op-ed hit, the comments were already a story. And the fact is that they were unfortunate and inappropriate. Not because she wanted to see him assassinated, but the fact that she would invoke the specter of that assassination as a reason to keep going. It was just a dumb comment on her part, and the coverage, while overblown, wasn't entirely unwarranted.

The fact is that the media played up the idea that 'Hillary might want Obama to be bumped off!'. The Obama campaign hardly encouraged it at all.

Posted by: Kryptik on May 31, 2008 at 11:29 PM | PERMALINK

After the thugish tactics of Mr. Obama, the use of the race card, his associations with the Hate Mongers, Trinity and Fr. Fleger, the extreme left wing-nut jobs. My wife wants her vote back.

Then your wife is an idiot, but then, she married you, didn't she? Anyone who thinks that Obama used thuggish tactics or the "race card" is too stupid to be allowed out by himself.

Posted by: Mike on June 1, 2008 at 12:04 AM | PERMALINK

hilzoy apparently doesn't read the comments sections of her own posts
resorting to nutpicking means you have abandoned rational argument

Posted by: sixtus on June 1, 2008 at 12:25 AM | PERMALINK

resorting to nutpicking means you have abandoned rational argument
Posted by: sixtus

which is still preferable to dividing the party by continuing to stay in despite having lost to Obama weeks ago.

Posted by: Gonads on June 1, 2008 at 4:32 AM | PERMALINK

The Democratic party is so inclusive we're now absorbing lunatic Republicans. It's very weird to see Hillary Clinton and this crowd embrace each other. And, sad.

Posted by: dennisS on June 1, 2008 at 7:45 AM | PERMALINK

The fact is that the media played up the idea that 'Hillary might want Obama to be bumped off!'. The Obama campaign hardly encouraged it at all.

Last night I left a comment documenting two instances in which the Obama campaign sent emails to its press list promoting that very notion. If that isn't "encouragement," I don't know what is.

Posted by: Swift Loris on June 1, 2008 at 12:24 PM | PERMALINK

Swift Loris,

How is Bill Burton's statement fanning the flames? She could have said the that things happen without mentioning the RFK assassination. I don't think that she was wishing for Obama's assassination but it was in poor taste to even bringing up RFK.

These who believe Larry Sinclair remind me of those who believe the Clintons were selling cocaine during WJC's time as govenor of AR.

Posted by: Micheline on June 1, 2008 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

How is Bill Burton's statement fanning the flames?

It wasn't his statement so much as the fact that in his email he linked to, or included the text of, the NYPost report, which claimed she'd said she was staying in the race in case Obama was assassinated. This suggested the Obama campaign agreed with that (mis)interpretation of her remarks, and that Burton's comment referred specifically to it.

But in context it was clear that she referred to RFK because everybody remembers the assassination and thus that the 1968 primary campaign had lasted until June. It was just a point of reference. The idea wasn't "Things happen," it was that primary campaigns have often lasted into June. She was responding to a question about why people were trying to get her to quit the race, and she was saying that didn't make sense historically.

It wasn't a matter of "taste" per se. She'd already made exactly the same reference back in March in an interview with Time magazine, and nobody said a word about it.

Posted by: Swift Loris on June 1, 2008 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

When is Kevin coming back so we don't have to look at your drivel any more?

Posted by: Janis on June 1, 2008 at 4:33 PM | PERMALINK

Obama's gonna win.

Fuckheads like stayalive are total buffoons.

Posted by: POed Lib on June 1, 2008 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

Let's agree that the DNC needed to penalize states that held premature primaries, but the situation is still not as it should be. Supporters of Florida and Michigan have a point: It is wrong to keep having first primaries in the same states like Iowa over and over. Iowa is a particularly bad choice because of the pressure from subsidy-sucking corn farmers to produce more wrongly-made ethanol and HFCS.

Still, it is disingenuous of Hillary supporters (like the repulsively aggressive Harold Ickes, as e.g. on Russert today) to act like Michigan voters are "disenfranchised" by giving a portion (majority!) of vote representation when Obama was just trying to follow rules. (What about the disenfranchising of all those voters who would have voted for Obama had there been a normal primary, eh?)

Posted by: Neil B. on June 1, 2008 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Gonads

I am amazed you can continue to post from a sealed container in a safe. Any chance Michelle will let you out before 2012?

Posted by: Obama wins eunuch vote on June 2, 2008 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

Gonads
I am amazed you can continue to post from a sealed container in a safe. Any chance Michelle will let you out before 2012?
Posted by: Obama wins eunuch vote

Yet another republican pussy afraid of strong women. Don't worry ... your generation will be dead soon.

Posted by: Gonads on June 2, 2008 at 1:30 AM | PERMALINK

When you play the Dolchtosslegende you bring out all the craziest elements in your society, regarless of their official political affiliation.
What the Clinton's have done is unforgivable. Even if it simmers down right quick, the fact that they went there is unforgivable.
Monsters.

Posted by: Northern Observer on June 2, 2008 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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