Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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July 31, 2008
By: Kevin Drum

HALFTIME REPORT...."Joe Klein vs. the Neocons" is nicely summarized here by Todd Gitlin. Click 'n read if you haven't been following this soap opera and want to catch up.

Kevin Drum 12:09 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (11)

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It is a Jewish conspiracy.

I wonder why Jews complain when we point this out, because we also point out the Black conspiracies, the Irish conspiracies, Christian Evangelical conspiracies, and the Mexican conspiracies.

There are a lot of ethnic conspiracies going on, just because we mention the obvious ones, including the Jewish, we are considered prejudiced.

Posted by: Matt on July 31, 2008 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

VOTE DIGBY-CLARK-2008---VOTE THE INTERNET no conspiracy, just a couple of winners.

Posted by: Mike Meyer on July 31, 2008 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sort of thrilled that Klein is where he is on this, but it would have been better in retrospect if he'd made the same points without using the magic words "divided loyalty", which are, indeed, a big red flag with bad history. On the other hand, that wouldn't have set AIPAC/etc off so loudly, and then we wouldn't all be having so much fun.

Posted by: DonBoy on July 31, 2008 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

Foxman blasted back that "if you consider the history that has seen Jews vilified as a group that keeps to itself, is conspiratorial and has dual loyalties, you will better understand our concern."

YOU DON'T REPRESENT JEWS, you doddering moron. How many polls do we need to cite to show it's "Perl, Lieberman, Feith, Scheunemann, Wolfowitz, Podhoretz, & Co." and most American Jews don't agree with them.
.

Posted by: Grand Moff Texan on July 31, 2008 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

What divided loyalties? Most of the top neocons have been investigated for spying for Israel and would probably be in jail if not for the Christian Zionist Bush quashing any investigation.

It's rather like the Emperor's clothes. Jews are one of the specially privileged ethnic groups under PC, and we mustn't say the obvious (unless we're semi-anonymous like blog commenters).

In more patriotic, less PC times like the 50's, people who spied for Israel and got us into a war with sexed up intelligence might have gotten the same treatment as the Rosenbergs.

Posted by: Luther on July 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM | PERMALINK

Pass the popcorn.

Posted by: Cal Gal on July 31, 2008 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not sure if you intended to say what you just said, implying that Jews as a group are somehow in the neocon camp, but Luther, you're not really helping.

The problem here is that people like Foxman and people like Luther are locked in a kind of S&M tango, where actions of individual Jews, acting as part of a group, are somehow associated with all or most Jews. (This naturally applies to all other ethnic groups, but we Jews have a special history when it comes to accusations of conspiracy.)

The fact of the matter is that Foxman and his noxious ilk are trying to persuade other Jews quite forcefully not to disagree with them, and then to make the implication that Jews really are marching in lockstep a more or less true statement. The proof is the the kind of treatment that you get if you dare to disagree with them, as Joe Klein, uncharacteristically correct about something for a change, is now learning. It's someting I learned as a young man when I lost a friend over the invasion of Lebanon, and when I was threatened over the phone during the eighties after writing a Letter to the Editor in support of the great political cartoonist, Paul Conrad.

I've never been a fan of Joe Klein who has a long history of making moronic statements that undercut his fellow liberals, but he is on the side of the angels here and Foxman is the worst kind of hate monger (see some of the ADL's horrifyingly one-sided work on Moslems and antisemitism that came out in the run-up to 9/11 -- it was little more than fear mongering and pro-war propaganda the message: it's okay to hate all of them, because they all hate you). He is worse than others because pretends to be a supporter of tolerance. I have nothing but contempt for the man.

Posted by: Bob on July 31, 2008 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

"it would have been better in retrospect if he'd made the same points without using the magic words "divided loyalty", which are a big red flag with bad history"

Yeah. I've read quite a few articles - in the NYT, the New Yorker, the internets, and on NPR - all concerned with the question of "Is Obama good for the Jews"..

"Obama's Jewish Problem" argues that many Jewish voters don't trust Obama in his support for Israel. Either his positions aren't definitive enough, or even his name and heritage are concerns (an argument along essentialist, tribal lines - pretty bad stuff).

Is this "divided loyalty", when American Jewish people consider, as voters, journalists, etc., the fate of their "people's" homeland, and let this influence, even guide their decisions and beliefs?

Who cares. Some Jews are upfront about their support for Israel and how it influences their actions. (More so in Jewish forums, perhaps from sensitivity to such "divided loyalty" charges). Are they a minority of Jews - probably. Is the majority even subtly influenced by their heritage? Probably so. Again, who cares.

If US Hispanics voted largely for the candidate perceived as "good" for Hispanic-Americans, few would complain about that. If recent immigrants voted for the candidate perceived as "good for Mexico" for instance, most would accept that. If they were fifth/sixth generation Americans and were *still* voting for what was "good for Mexico", we might find that odd, but not "treasonous" or whatever.

Jews voting for whatever their interests might be - great. Jews working to influence US policy towards whatever their interests - great, Democracy in action. If there were a cabal of people in the upper reaches of our government working for their interests, does it matter if they are personally Jewish? (I don't think so).

Posted by: whaddagoy on July 31, 2008 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

Save for you, Kevin Drum, I really can't think of very many people outside the D.C. Beltway who cares about whatever Joe "Primary Colors by Anonymous" Klein has to say about anything.

As a journalist, "Joke Line" has proved himself time and again to be nothing but a thinly-veiled partisan hack, who's perfectly content to carry the powers-that-be's water for them as long as they spring for lunch and cocktails at Elaine's or Spago's.

The question is, why do you care?

Posted by: Out & About in The Castro. on July 31, 2008 at 9:08 PM | PERMALINK

Matt: "There are a lot of ethnic conspiracies going on, just because we mention the obvious ones, including the Jewish, we are considered prejudiced."

You forgot to mention the fuckin' ignorant white trash conspiracy, of which you are obviously a charter member.

Posted by: Out & About in The Castro. on July 31, 2008 at 9:18 PM | PERMALINK

Jews voting for whatever their interests might be - great. Jews working to influence US policy towards whatever their interests - great, Democracy in action. If there were a cabal of people in the upper reaches of our government working for their interests, does it matter if they are personally Jewish? (I don't think so).
Posted by: whaddagoy

... and hey ... if they happen to fabricate intelligence to justify a war that kills a bunch of Iraqis and Iranians - great, Democracy in action!

Posted by: Gonads on July 31, 2008 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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