Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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July 31, 2008
By: Kevin Drum

QUOTE OF THE DAY....From Hank, explaining the tech industry in a nutshell:

"As a matter of fact, the last one was a classic cc:all flame fest over text editors."

If you don't get it, it's probably a clue that you have a life.

Kevin Drum 9:38 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (48)

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Comments

Emacs roolz. Anybody who doesnt use emacs is a diptard.

Vi? feh. Stoneage.

anything after emacs? unneccesarily complex.

-rms

Posted by: rms on July 31, 2008 at 9:48 PM | PERMALINK

Also, My music taste roolz! which is:
all the music on the (fm) radio starting when I was
11 years old, until five years after I lost my
virginity. That period of music is obviously
superior to all other music.

Except maybe that Feith/Fate/Ipod chick, she is
kinda hot.

-rms

Posted by: rms on July 31, 2008 at 9:52 PM | PERMALINK

XEmacs? Cheap West-coast knock-off.

Posted by: sean on July 31, 2008 at 9:59 PM | PERMALINK

Luckily you are not an ad advisor for O. Not to be picky, but haven't you been a bit self-absorbed lately?

Posted by: Michael7843853 on July 31, 2008 at 9:59 PM | PERMALINK

nedit is the only text editor that makes my life complete.

Posted by: hbot3000 on July 31, 2008 at 10:07 PM | PERMALINK

hbot3000 splain please

Posted by: Michael7843853 on July 31, 2008 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK

Hmmm....

Anyone up for a good 'ol Vi versus Edlin flamefest?

Which one would Obama use? Can McCain even type?

Posted by: Buford on July 31, 2008 at 10:30 PM | PERMALINK
Can McCain even type?

Nah, old guys like him thought it was demeaning to use a keyboard.

Still, I'm pleasantly stunned that Kevin even notices ScienceBlogs.

Posted by: freelunch on July 31, 2008 at 10:40 PM | PERMALINK

gedit here.

Posted by: Ron Byers on July 31, 2008 at 10:42 PM | PERMALINK

Emacs is a heresy that must be rooted out and destroyed, or at least destroyed by root wherever it appears.

vim is the one true editor.

Posted by: phleabo on July 31, 2008 at 11:20 PM | PERMALINK

rms: Anybody who doesnt use emacs is a diptard.

Anyone who doesn't still use ed, sos or teco is not only dumber than a diptard, but has an IQ lower than the machine they're running on.

Posted by: has407 on July 31, 2008 at 11:23 PM | PERMALINK

Madedit - if your text editor cant hex edit your as coprolite.

Posted by: Jet on July 31, 2008 at 11:31 PM | PERMALINK

If you don't get it, it's probably a clue that you have a life

And yet, you don't explain it to us, so we can gain from the wisdom that coms from suffering.

Posted by: Swan on July 31, 2008 at 11:36 PM | PERMALINK

But Kevin,

What kind of life is it outside of being deep in the bowels of the tech industry?

Surely such outsiders can find no real satisfaction in a life devoid of the details of technology.

Posted by: Rick B on July 31, 2008 at 11:38 PM | PERMALINK

dosedit RulZZZ...

Posted by: Scott F. on July 31, 2008 at 11:57 PM | PERMALINK

I hear Cheeto sales are up...

"There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept." - Ansel Adams

Posted by: daCascadian on July 31, 2008 at 11:58 PM | PERMALINK

Vi blows dead bear.

How idiotic is it to have a shortcut to quit and save, but no shortcut to quit without saving?

Epic fail.

Posted by: Mary Contrary on July 31, 2008 at 11:59 PM | PERMALINK

I'm a recovering emacs user.

Moved on to gedit.

Posted by: ergodubito on August 1, 2008 at 12:05 AM | PERMALINK

Mac in trash says Wynn Blows

Posted by: on August 1, 2008 at 12:29 AM | PERMALINK

real men use cat.

Posted by: am on August 1, 2008 at 12:38 AM | PERMALINK

:1,$g/*ed*/s//vi/g

Posted by: gregor on August 1, 2008 at 12:39 AM | PERMALINK

Heck, you don't have to be a techie.

A hard copy newspaper editor/reporter here knows that editors suck at times.

Posted by: SocraticGadfly on August 1, 2008 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

Kind of reminds me of when I was in highschool (back in the sixties) and we used to argue: Fords verses Chevies.

Posted by: fafner1 on August 1, 2008 at 1:02 AM | PERMALINK

deadbeef
deadbeef
deadbeef
deadbeef
deadbeef
deadbeef
deadbeef

Posted by: rms on August 1, 2008 at 1:18 AM | PERMALINK

Vi blows dead bear.

How idiotic is it to have a shortcut to quit and save, but no shortcut to quit without saving?

Epic fail.

Huh? q! quits without saving.

Posted by: tavella on August 1, 2008 at 3:39 AM | PERMALINK

vim w/ customized .exrc for every filetype.

gregor, 1,$ --> %

Posted by: matt on August 1, 2008 at 6:02 AM | PERMALINK

Huh? q! quits without saving.

Yeah, even better, I think Bill Joy's original vi behaved that way.

Epic RTFM.

Posted by: phleabo on August 1, 2008 at 8:42 AM | PERMALINK
Anyone up for a good 'ol Vi versus Edlin flamefest?

You got a laugh, but no, not up for it.

And why can't there be fest without flame? Sometimes. Or, just pseudo-flame. Ok, forget it.

Posted by: little ole jim on August 1, 2008 at 9:19 AM | PERMALINK

I once worked for a company that failed because two senior software engineers couldn't agree on a source control system, so we ended up with none. Chaos ensued.

Big-shot techies and their egos are not always fucking funny. The elephants fight and the mice get crushed because the big shots can always go on and fuck up other people's livelihoods. But I'm not bitter.

I cheerfully use whatever editor is in on the system front of me without complaining, as long as it basically works. Some people will see this adaptability as a character defect. Those are the people with problems, if you ask me.

Posted by: thersites on August 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

What's new?

E/h

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,

Posted by: Luther on August 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM | PERMALINK

I once worked for a company that failed because two senior software engineers couldn't agree on a source control system, so we ended up with none. Chaos ensued.

Um, it sounds like the company failed because there was nobody managing stuff.

That disagreement about SCM should have gone on for exactly one meeting, and then been resolved by fiat if necessary. Even crappy source control is better than none at all (unless it's Visual Source Safe, in which case you actually are better off with chaos).

Posted by: phleabo on August 1, 2008 at 10:58 AM | PERMALINK

Swan: And yet, you don't explain it to us, so we can gain from the wisdom that comes from suffering.

Imagine two carpenters getting into a fistfight about whether Craftsman or Stanley makes a better hammer. It's at about that level of maturity, except that it's people who think they're intelligent.

Posted by: thersites on August 1, 2008 at 11:02 AM | PERMALINK

phleabo: That disagreement about SCM should have gone on for exactly one meeting

You're exactly right. It did. A prima-donna principal engineer quit in a huff, and torpedoed the company in the process. I like most of the people I work with, but the Tech industry is crawling with self-important assholes who make life difficult for the rest of us.

Posted by: thersites on August 1, 2008 at 11:15 AM | PERMALINK

Of course, it wasn't really the fault of the guy that quit that we ended up with no SCM, but still...

Posted by: thersites on August 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM | PERMALINK

Really Jasper? You can say Pico with a straight face and still stand to look at your feeble-editing visage in the mirror in the morning?

Emacs is for people who want to write code.

Vi is for people who want to prance about with their worthless knowledge of an editor.

Flame on.

Posted by: Cooper on August 1, 2008 at 4:14 PM | PERMALINK

BTW After this is over can we do Amiga v Atari ST? That is a classic too!

Posted by: Cooper on August 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM | PERMALINK


Emacs is for people who want to write code.

Yeah, and it'd be great for that if it just came with a usable text editor.

Posted by: phleabo on August 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM | PERMALINK

Vigor. Viiiiigooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

You know it makes sense.

Posted by: Ian Whitchurch on August 1, 2008 at 7:33 PM | PERMALINK

OK, explaining this stuff to non-techies.

A text editor is what you use to write computer programs.

Vi is a small, lightweight, fast, stripped down text editor.

Emacs is a powerful, complex beast that can do pretty much anything.

Basically, neither is better or worse - it's a personal use thing. But mandating tools for IT workers is often like telling an artist that they have to use watercolors or oils in a painting ... it might make sense when a team is working on a 6x12 foot panel, but its going to ruffle feathers no matter what you pick.

Posted by: Ian Whitchurch on August 1, 2008 at 7:41 PM | PERMALINK

Emacs is a powerful, complex beast that can do pretty much anything.

You misspelled memory hogging chunk of crap.

Posted by: phleabo on August 1, 2008 at 8:30 PM | PERMALINK

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