Hey, we knew he was a slimeball. What's more interesting are the tidbits so far on Hillary as a failed executive of her own campaign.

Obama born in 1961. Hillary born in 1948 (if memory serves. Each born in the middle third of the century. Only someone born either 12/31/50 or 01/01/51 (if my math is correct) could quibble with either as not being born "in the middle of the century).

Also, a new American century would be better inaugurated by someone with ties to the previous, plus the one to come. So, Hawai'i, the 50th state, the one furthest afield from the mainland, would be a good place to start. Add mixed parentage -- as much foreign as American, as he is black & white -- & you have another feather in that "new American century" cap.

Penn is an idiot.

Some of us knew he was a sleazeball before Iowa.

"My guess is that Penn's career as a A-list political consultant was probably over anyway, but hopefully this drives a final nail into his coffin."

Huh? We haven't seen the last of Mark Penn. He has the kind of character and integrity that would be perfect for a Republican strategist. These latest revelations only help his chances with the Republicans. He'll be on Lieberman's next campaign, for sure. And, yes, Lieberman will finally run as the Republican he is.

Employing both Penn and Dick Morris doesn't show so well for the Clintons. They like these guys.

Penn's career probably is over, but his sleaziness has nothing to do with it. The fact that the Clinton campaign, with huge advantages in name recognition and connections, failed is what will doom him. In politics, losing is the only sin. If sleaziness mattered, Atwater and Rove would never have had a chance.

I'm with RollaMO. Senator Clinton does not seem to have had even minimal control of her campaign or staff. So very not ready on day one.

Huh? We haven't seen the last of Mark Penn.

Co-signed.

Running a train wreck of a campaign isn't a career-ender for political consultants - it's nearly a pre-requisite.

See Shrum, Bob. Nothing earns you the title of 'expert on what Democrats should do' like losing a handful of political campaigns.

The only thing that makes you more qualified to tell Democrats what to do is being a Republican.

In politics, losing is the only sin.

I don't think so. Or, at least it doesn't seem to have harmed the careers of the Shrum Generation of Democratic political consultants.

I think the only sin in American politics is telling the truth in unvarnished language. One is immediately and almost unanimously denounced as a DFH, or 'leftist fringe' or some such brand.

Just consider the scorn heaped on Jimmy Carter for being honest about energy. Howard Dean is a more recent example. You can say just about anything you like, but you can never challenge Americans' most cherished delusions.

Maybe he can be hired by the McCain campaign. He'll fit in well, I'm sure.

why would this be the end of Penn's career?

McCain is running precisely that campaign.

I was in Borders on Saturday night and couldn't help but overhear an earnest conversation between two early 20's-something lovebirds.

The young man opined that it would be great if Obama would select a woman for vice-president. The woman objected instantly, leading to the puzzled question, "Why not?," from the guy.

The woman, speaking in that tone of voice in which every declarative sentence is inflected as if a question, asserted confidently that America is just isn't ready for a woman as president, and offered as evidence the treatment of Hillary in the campaign.

With the little bit of patience that being 52 brings, I said nothing. But what I was thinking was: "America is, too, ready for a woman president. What we were not ready for is another 8 years of the Clinton soap opera."

And I say that as one who voted for Clinton for president twice (considering the alternatives both times).

Again: It's not Hillary as a woman. It's Hillary as Clinton Machine. Please acknowledge and respect the true opposition that Hillary faced.

"Obsma"?

How do you even pronounce that? I would say you mis-typed, except that nothing else in your posting is misspelled.

Oh how desperate the attempts become to meld together "Osama" and "Obama". It's not working, is it? How frustrated you must be.

He got nutin' on Herr Rove. But he be tryin' no?

This is our political discourse... I am so proud.

Becoming the classic middle American does not work.

Middle America wants a check, they don't care if the check comes from Al Qeda, as long as it cashes.

Yes. Ugly shit is ugly shit. Democrat or Republican.

Say what you want - AT LEAST CLINTON KNOWS WHAT THE CONSTITUTION IS. Pretty boy 'bama, the self-proclaimed constitutional "expert" and "professor" voted to decimate the 4th ammendment - after promising his supporters he would filibuster any bill.

He is a sham and certainly no progressive/liberal.

You don't let the truth be spoken here, but those of us that actually read more than your blog know that 'bama is a liar and stands for nothing.

*Has gone from "Iraq war was wrong and a mistake" to "lets continue the war crimes and crimes against humanity for at least another year

*Advocates endless wars for Israel in the Middle East

*Does not support meaningful healthcare reform, just want to give handouts to large healthcare providers and insurance companies

*Has already indicated he will start the Social Security bamboozle tour again by promoting the lie that it is in "crisis"

*Instead of providing any meaningful leadership or answers to high concentrations of poverty and dysfunctional schools in urban communities with large populations of African Americans, he place the "personal responsibility" card, blaming victems of structural poverty

*Obama's Shameful Housing Record

Please watch this video ASAP cuz the lying liars here don't let the truth stay posted for long!

The limited amount of info out so far reveals, to me at least, that Hillary may have been 'ready to lead on Day One', but if that really were to happen, Day One would turn out to be a giant clusterfuck .

....The Penn memo suggesting that the campaign target Obama's "lack of American roots" said in part: "All of these articles about his boyhood in Indonesia and his life in Hawaii are geared towards showing his background is diverse, multicultural and putting that in a new light.

Wait, isn't Hawaii...part of the United States?

I guess the anti-Obama troll at 5:26 PM is too much of a coward to post his name. What's wrong, pal? The McCain campaign paying for you to be a hitman?

Joe Miller - No, I think he's a free-lance lunatic. Usually the moderators remove his stuff all day, every day. I guess someone's off watching the game.

Wait, isn't Hawaii...part of the United States?

Opinions differ. Cokie Roberts, for instance...

"On the August 10 edition of ABC's This Week, ABC News political analyst Cokie Roberts criticized Sen. Barack Obama -- who was born in Hawaii -- for "going off this week to a vacation in Hawaii," which she said "does not make any sense whatsoever." Roberts stated: "I know his grandmother lives in Hawaii and I know Hawaii is a state, but it has the look of him going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place." Roberts continued: "He should be in Myrtle Beach, and, you know, if he's going to take a vacation at this time."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200808100001

She knows Hawaii is a state but frets that it looks like O is going off to a 'foreign' locale. Figure that one out.

The problem Kevin here is that to Californian's and Oregonians and Washingtonians, going to Hawaii is pretty common idea. Flights are cheap, they leave frequently from all the major (and some of the minor) airports out there and you all have probably been there once and just about everyone you know has as well. East Coasters have the same experience with going to Bermuda or Puerto Rico not to mention Florida which is quite literally a second home to many of out here.

For the rest of country, Hawaii is still pretty exotic. My parents went there for the first time in their lives a couple years ago. It was a big deal. Required almost a half day of flying. And cost a bundle. This was a big -- "we've retired!" -- gift to themselves. We would have never gone there as a family.

So yeah, reluctantly, I see the problem here. It's just not that common for people to go outside of the West Coast. It's still a fancy place that people only go once in their lives kind of deal -- a honeymoon, to celebrate a major anniversary, something like that -- for the rest of the country. It feels and looks extravagant. (And good god, that amount of time on a plane you'd think you'd should have at least left the country.)

So where do Chicagoans go for vacations in the summer? Upstate Michigan of course, also Wisconsin, maybe upper Iowa if you have family out there or Minnesota if you really like fish and what something a little more rustic. Obama is a south sider though and Michigan would have been a more logical choice. It's where Daley and Oprah both have homes. My own family (Chicagoans and Minnesotans alike) is all up there right now.

Why? THis is what McCain is doing and Obama keeps sinking in the polls.

Average lead down to 2.3% when it used to be 4.7% or something a month ago.

My guess is that Penn's career as a A-list political consultant was probably over anyway, but hopefully this drives a final nail into his coffin. What a sleaze.

I dunno... Penn's career as an A-list political consultant and as a sleaze are pretty well indistinguishable.

Senator McCain does not seem to have even minimal control of his campaign or staff. So very not ready on day one.

Fixed for currency.

Nameless person: You paid trolls aren't even trying, are you? Valid birth certificate: http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert His Indonesian sojourn was between the ages of 6 and 10. Good grief.

Christopher, you grudge him a trip to see his Grandma?

A lot of McC's base probably think HI is a foreign country. But it's part of the US of A, for better or worse, and an interesting place (Honolulu is not just Waikiki) -- if you know it you understand some things about Obama. It's also weird for people to go after him as rootless and then assail him for visiting a place where he has roots.

Political consultants are not supposed to be sweethearts.

@MNPundit

Realclearpolitics has him at +4.4 %

What say you? Tool.

Penn deserves to be working for the Republicans.

They're attacking Obama because they know McCain has NO upside. They have to bring Obama down any way they can -- and they will obviously invent stuff if they have to.

Is that the way we want a president to lead America? No way!

With every word out of his (campaign's) mouth McCain shows he isn't fit to be president.

*

With the little bit of patience that being 52 brings, I said nothing. But what I was thinking was: "America is, too, ready for a woman president. What we were not ready for is another 8 years of the Clinton soap opera."

And I say that as one who voted for Clinton for president twice (considering the alternatives both times).

Again: It's not Hillary as a woman. It's Hillary as Clinton Machine. Please acknowledge and respect the true opposition that Hillary faced.

Posted by: Piehole on August 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM

My thoughts exactly. Hillary's biggest problem, aside from her centrism and DLC ties, was being tied to the Clinton past and all the tired old battles that would have been revived. As soon as Obama presented himself as a genuinely viable alternative, Hillary was doomed -- not because she was a woman, but because she was a Clinton.

What has been released so far from the Clinton emails is good for Obama...traditional media will discuss the details of Obama's life in full view without his campaign having to bring them up...his life details are the basis of the smears against him both whispered and used by McCain...now everyone can point to the truth of his upbringing regarding religion, education, family, etc. You can be sure that race will be discussed openly about Obama (in the contest of Penn's emails) and the McCain campaign cannot accuse Obama of the race card since he didn't expose this information. In addition, McCain's character smears are now openly exposed by Penn as slimy political tactics.

I would have to say that George Bush ran a pretty good campaign, but look at how his presidency turned out. One does not relate to the other.

Furthermore, I would suggest that if you saw the inner workings of the Obama campaign you would find equally repugnant thoughts.

"Furthermore, I would suggest that if you saw the inner workings of the Obama campaign you would find equally repugnant thoughts.
Posted by: DR on August 10, 2008 at 9:32 PM | PERMALINK"

Furthermore, I would suggest that if you saw the daily life of DR you would find equally repugnant thoughts.

Argument by assertion is fun!

Obama's sister also lives in Hawaii. Oh no, he's visiting his birth state where his sister lives!

I guess I just don't see the big deal. It sounds like normal political branding - of course it is shitty and dishonest and jingo-y. There wasn't even anything creative in Penn's line of attack, it is practically automatic against any non-white candidate, much less one with so many foreign moments in his life.

Christ, in the generals it makes perfect sense, and would be considered improper not to do it.

In a democratic primary though, with so many minority voters, it is utterly idiotic. That is what Penn's big failing here is. Not being a schmuck (which is what campaigning advisors are), but for failing to realize how big of a backlash that kind of attack would have in a primary attack. It is good that Hillary had a lot more sense than to follow that advice.

Getting bad campaign advice is par for the course... how much of it did she buy into is the question that goes to her actual character. It doesn't seem like she bought into very much of it, though those advisors who were in love with their plans definitely screwed her in many instances.

Of course, so did Obama's.

Realclearpolitics has him at +4.4 %

What say you? Tool.

I say? I SAY?! And Pollster.com has him at 2.4% you delusional, ignorant hack.

So where do Chicagoans go for vacations in the summer? Upstate Michigan of course, also Wisconsin, maybe upper Iowa if you have family out there or Minnesota if you really like fish and what something a little more rustic.

Obama went to visit his sister and grandmother in his home state. I can't imagine that even the lowest-information voter is unaware that Obama was born in Hawaii at this point (unless they're convinced he was SECRETLY BORN IN KENYA!!111!!!ONE!!!)

Is he not supposed to visit his elderly grandmother until the campaign is over because some East Coasters think Hawaii is too expensive?

I can't imagine that even the lowest-information voter is unaware that Obama was born in Hawaii at this point (unless they're convinced he was SECRETLY BORN IN KENYA!!111!!!ONE!!!)

Or they think there actually is some secret tunnel linking the pope to the White House, built by the Vatican when Al Smith ran for president in 1928.

If Penn were any better at what he was trying to do the Obama campaign should retain him. But of course if Penn were any better his candidate wouldn't have lost the primary in the first place. The real problem is that McCain's henchmen are better at it, and if the Obama campaign thinks it can counter tire gauge attacks with a reasoned refutation they're in for a long Fall.

Furthermore, I would suggest that if you saw the daily life of DR you would find equally repugnant thoughts.

And you'd be right.

Turn Hawaii to an advantage, go visit Pearl Harbor (on a quiet day, standing by the waterfront memorial it's as reverent and spiritual an experience of remembrance as Arlington).

Then when someone forgets the sacrifice of December 7th, by seemingly suggesting that Hawaii isn't "real" America, you can point to their day of irreverence and shame as "a date which will live in infamy"!

The end of Penn?

Hell, like people have said, for politicians, losing may be a career death knell, but for consultants, it's practically a prerequisite. It's a trial by fire. How else do you explain how so many of our Democratic Consultants, so utterly wrong for so many years, continue to take the ear of Dem Leadership and propose the EXACT SAME BLOODY FREAKIN' FAILED STRATEGIES?

In politics, losing is the only sin

Bob Shrum?

Anyway, I agree with all who say Penn is not gone at all. In Washington, its not about the ideas but how loudly you say them. Its not about success or failure but how big you do either of them.

Not to mention, I am not convinced that running a losing Clinton campaign will be seen as a bad thing by the people that make the hiring decisions.

Guess it's lucky that Obama is up against a guy born in Panama.

Shows how much you know, or rather how little. If Hillary would have followed Penn's advice, she'd be the nominee right now. Her biggest mistake was not using Reverend Wright (thats another thing Penn told her to do).

I love how everybody is all offended about how Penn wanted to play hardball, yet they dont mention a thing about the Obama campaigns use of the race card against Hillary, and Bill. That was much much much worse than anything Penn suggested to do.

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