The R's who matter don't really believe that, they're just trying to convince their idiot followers that's the case.

The Republicans are nationalists who have learned that fear and jingoism wins them elections.

McCain's recent surge in the polls shows that they have yet to be proven wrong. Why stop now?

More like: the politics of fear is the only thing they've got and they know it. So they go with what they have.

From Hewitt's blog to the Corner to Powerline, the WingNuttoSphere has become completely unhinged.

It's only going to get worse - much worse - over the next months.

Is America dumb enough to fall for it again?

Is Obama clever enough to parry it?

We'll see...

[T]hat's one reason the campaign has gotten so nasty.

The other reason is the Republicans always get over-the-top nasty. Is this campaign any more nasty than against Kerry or Gore the last two go rounds? I don't see that. Republicans are nasty or at least play nasty. Kevin, I don't understand why you are surprised at something that always happens.

It's simple, the more observant of the neoCONS realize that McInsane is doomed as a candidate, and when the public sees the effectiveness with which a semocratic administration can operate (see Clinton, Bill), they will never vote in another Republican majority in our lifetime.

At least that's what I keep telling myself.

I'm detecting resignation, but I'm not paying all too much attention.

The few conservatives I know are more listless than I've ever seen them. Six years ago I told a friend that I would be shocked if gays weren't getting married in 5 to 10 years. He chuckled knowingly and told me that it would never happen. Ever.

He's not really like that anymore. Shrugs a lot.

I think a lot of reality has set in in a lot of places.

Crust: You may be right. I'm certainly not surprised at Republican smearing, though. It's just that it feels a little different this time.

Like I said, I don't have a sharp point to make. I might be wrong about all this. All I can say is that I've been getting a different vibe about this campaign than I did about 2000 or 2004. If I can verbalize this better in a future post, I will.

And maybe it's just prompted by the fact that I read The Corner too much

Reading The Corner at all is reading it too much.

As far as why this campaign has gotten so nasty, it has nothing to do what the average wingnut thinks. McInsane and his minions made a decision at the very start to go negative. My beliefe is that McInsane's internals are giving him a much bleaker picture than the national polls.

There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig. The only other option is to throw so much shit on the prize pony that everyone thinks he's a pig, too.

Kind of the flip side to FDR's 1st Inaugural Address, So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror...

This, of course, continues as,

...which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory.

The GOP:

- struggling to paralyyze needed efforts to convert retreat into advance? CHECK

- struggling to sustain this dark hour of our national life, and avoid a leadership of frankness and vigor? CHECK

Of course, he didn't campaign on that, being as bland as possible before the election. Perhaps he didn't trust "the support of the people themselves which is essential to victory" while they still had a choice?

But I kind of feel like the country would be on the cusp of doom were McCain elected, and I bet a lot of other people do too, but why is it that we don't react in exactly the same way? No, this is their MO, and it's just ratcheted up because there is a higher than normal chance of defeat for them.

First two comments nailed it. The hysteria's strictly for the benefit of the terrified-of-Muslims-and-gosh-black-people-are-different-from-us voting crowd.

Promise us that when you get to MJ, you'll stop all this "I don't know what I think" and "I'm not making an original point" and "Am I missing something?" stuff, which has crept up alarmingly in your recent posts. Declarative statements minus needless qualifications or apologies can be your friend. It's okay to be wrong sometimes; you can always apologize or retract. People even respect that.

All I can say is that I've been getting a different vibe about this campaign than I did about 2000 or 2004.

Well, for me it's straightforward -- what's new this time, overlaid on the usual unhingedness, is teh racism.

So, Republicans are worried that a Democratic president won't be able to stand up to the dangers that a Republican president was too weak and stupid to forestall?

Jesus Christ, Republicans are stupid.
.

Obama can make it (especially with Biden as Veep) and "panic" conservatives (why will what happens be horrible for them but good to OK for the rest of us?), but we need to consider what he and his supporters face from the opposition complex:

The Fix is In – Again!

Ernest Partridge, Co-Editor
The Crisis Papers
August 12, 2008

http://www.crisispapers.org/essays8p/fix.htm

I don't like the author's pessimistic tone, but it's an important and rather comprehensive rundown of why we should be concerned about what we're up against.

Vote Republican or Die. Yawn.

They want the world a certain way, that is, their way, but they can't get it. Fear is all they understand (like a fish in water, they are so immersed in their fears they don't realize that they are acting on their fears). When someone comes along who is not filled with their fears and pushes for positive things they are more afraid, because their fears are not being acknowledged. Reagan affirmed their fears, that's why he's a hero to them. Clinton didn't acknowledge their fears and thus was a person to be hated.

Obama has the potential to be an even stronger agent of change than Bill Clinton, and that must be terrifying to the voices of fear, because their relevance will proportionately evaporate. At least, that's what we can hope for.

*Starting* to panic, maybe. But genuinely believing that the world is collapsing? No. When people genuinely believe that the opposition is an intolerable, irrevocable threat (ie, one cannot simply wait out their term in office), they start resorting to violence (see: 1950s/60s Segregationists and Black Panthers, 1980s Irish Republican Army, 2000s Everyone in Iraq). Thankfully, that hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it will get to that point.

What really strikes fear in their hearts is the prospect that he might take away their tax cuts.

If you think the survival of the nation is at stake, you're certainly not going to be worried about a bit of freelance political smearing, are you?

OK, fair question. But doesn't explain the particularly nasty campaign in 2000 now does it?

Face facts, the GOP has been taken over by a band of fanatics that make the Goldwaterites look benign in comparison. Their motto seems to be, "Better dead than led by the tyrannical dark forces of moderation!" When the Onion did their famous headline about thanking the Lord for ending our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity, they didn't get the joke.

I think you are on to something.

I have a lot of Republican and neoconservative friends who enjoy engaging me in political discourse. Probably, because I avoid arguing with them and telling them what I really think of their opinions.

These poor people have genuinely scared themselves half to death. Highly educated and sane people believe that Obama is either in cahhots with Muslim extremist will play the fool for them. They also believe that almost all Muslims are extremist, rather than the extremists being a narrow fringe. They think they have already invaded all of the U.S. with sleeper cells everywhere, just waiting for their chance to get us. They believe that all Muslims are "Islamofascists" who are completely dedicated to a Soviet Union style, whole world dominion empire.

This is not some left wing screed and satire of their position. This is what about a fourth of our country fully believe and what another third is afraid might come true. We are still that scared becaause the neocons continue to scare us.

I am old enough to remember when every Russian and every Chinese was a godless automotron, who dedicated to come get us regardless of the the personal cost. And they had spies and sympathizers EVERYWHERE in the US and western Europe. And anyone who was not willing to commit in kind to stop them was either a fool or a traitor.

Kevin, thanks for the reply. I guess to the extent there's a different vibe it has to do with disappointment with McCain personally, specifically the contrast in how he campaigned in 1999-2000; his campaign is way nastier this time. (Although as you noted the other day, McCain's earlier history is more continuous with what we're seeing today. It's the McCain of 1999-2000 that looks like the aberration, not the McCain of today.) But compared to a Republican baseline, I just don't see it.

The diehard, right wing Republicans I know personally just aren't that fired up this time, in part because of some appeal of some aspects of Obama but mostly because they hate McCain's guts. In principle, they prefer McCain but they're not inclined to lift a finger.

So-called "neoconservatism" is a fraud. It's a scam. It's a hoax. It's a fake, phony, made-up pseudo-ideology designed to bamboozle the public while its perpetrators loot the Treasury, rip off the American people, plunder the country's natural resources, and use the US military as their private mercenary army for corrupt purposes of private financial gain.

Since the purpose of "neoconservatism" is not to actually accomplish anything, or advance any actual values, but only to confuse and distract people from the neocons' ongoing organized crime spree, the fact that it is incoherent is a feature, not a bug. Yglesias has it exactly right: "it's not supposed to make any kind of sense."

I will go you one more.

All my Republican friends that hold political office, have been appointed to political positions or have been highly active leaders in campaigns are 100% sure that if Hillary is the VP nominee, the Dems will win in a landslide.

I am not saying this is true, but rather what they are convinced of.

And I will add that I was an Edwards supporter who openly opposed Hillary and is moderately supportive of Obama.

The age of American world dominance is starting to unravel. That much is obvious. What's debatable is whether the long-term consequences of this decline are good or bad. That's material for a whole essay of its own.

But the point here is that for those who live in a bipolar world, and cannot imagine anything between "USA! USA! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!" and nonexistencet, these can only seem like apocalyptic times.

Is it really impossible to imagine a United States which is reasonably comfortable and prosperous without having to maintain world dominance? Or are we already so far down the other path that we must dominate or perish?

I fear we will reap what we have sown around the world for the last half century, and that neither party can muster the political will to reverse this decline.

But if Obama is elected, it will be his fault. If McCain is elected, it will still be the Democrats' fault.

I don't think I've ever read The Corner, but I do have friends who are Republicans, and I distinctly remember how they talked in 2004. They said then that the choice America made in the presidential election would be absolutely crucial to our future as a democracy.

And these were usually sane people, with full-time jobs and flower gardens in their back yards. I don't think any of them have bomb shelters underneath the azaleas.

I know I'm not making an original point here. Conservatives, and neoconservatives in particular, have always thrived on a sense of being surrounded by manifest, civilization-threatening dangers.

No, you're not. Try googling "abortion" & "holocaust" some time. No amount of hyperbole is ever enough. Still, and I'm going on nothing but my memory here, Republican hysteria about terrorism was off the charts in the 2004 cycle. If you ask me (and, of course, you didn't) talk of threats this time around smacks far more of a desperation. McCain's got nothing else. He's a war guy from a war family who went to a war academy that taught him how to view the world in terms of war, so he's going to -- surprise -- talk & talk & talk about war, and the little flying monkeys over at NRO are going to do everything they can to enable that. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like McCain's the only one with his heart in it. It's just an involuntary reflex for the rest of them.

"Rather, it's a sense — a deep and genuine sense — that they believe an Obama presidency would be so weak and so feckless that it might lead to the eventual destruction of the country."

Since you don't point to any specific examples of this panicking that you claim we conservatives are suffering from, I cannot speak of all of them. But this conservative is not panicked in the least by the prospect of an Obama presidency because I am fully confident that the American people are not yet stupid enough, the public schools notwithstanding, to elect such an empty suit to the White House.

And if I am mistaken, unlike you liberals, I doubt that many conservatives would view it as the end of the world. This country has survived much more harrowing events in its history and thank God that we will be powerful enough to survive the One's tenure. Moreover, since complete Democratic control over the Federal Government will very quickly show the American people why it's never a good idea to vote them into power, we'll be patently waiting to save them in 2012 and beyond when they sweep your guys out of office.

I agree with you on your analysis; authoritarian conservatives are always afraid of big scary external threats. It is a personality type based on the worldview that the world is a scary dangerous place with enemies always out to destroy us, which leads them to an authoritarian mindset. The problem is their constant fear of the other, and change, and scary threats, and scapegoats, can leads some of them to believe that they must support their paternal authoritarian leaders at any cost, by any means necessary, which can lead one or two wackos to attempt assassination of the opposition leader that, if allowed to power, would lead to the destruction of our way of life. Beware the nut-jobs who take this mindset that one extra step!!

The country probably will be doomed, but for entirely different reasons.

Kevin, this is just business as usual with the Republicans, Chicounsel's nonchalance notwithstanding. (And by the way, Chi, you really have no reason whatsoever to think that a constitutional scholar who taught at Chicago while serving with distinction in the state legislature is an empty suit. Go soak your head.) The party thought entering World War II was going to be a disaster until we did it. Then they thought not sending Patton all the way to Moscow spelled doom. They thought the fall of China was the end of the world, and the failure to invade China during the Korean war a sign of weakness. Castro was going to take Miami. The fall of Vietnam ensured the spread of Communism throughout Asia. The Sandinistas were going to march into Texas. And every Democratic candidate makes them wet their pants. Clinton had people killed. Gore was going to sell the country to the U.N. This is just how conservatives think.

The nation and the world will be doomed if McCain is elected president. Neocons are in a panic because their plan to destroy most life is in jeopardy.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like McCain's the only one with his heart in it. It's just an involuntary reflex for the rest of them.

Now there I disagree with you, and I rarely do. Sure, many of the former players have checked out this time, but there are enough standing by to push the familiar buttons. The storytellers may not believe the tale they're spinning this time around, but they're banking on there being enough confusion and disinformation among their base about Islam and terrorism to make the "How much do we know about him?"/"Who is he really?"/"Is his loyalty to Islam?"/"He's kind of a risky choice" crap fly.

It's still about the dangerous world just waiting to gobble us all up, but it has a fresh new angle based on vague threats of divided loyalties based on skin color and middle names. If it seems to some that the hysteria's ramped up higher this time, that's because the perception of the enemy is being shaped through hints and innuendo rather than definitive naming.

Umm...so why was it so nasty before then?

We should wave this around, that McCain has the worst record (of late at least) for missing votes in the Senate. Sure, Obama and Hillary and Biden etc. miss a lot too, but McCain is *the worst.*
It will counter complaints that Obama misses votes/votes "present" so much/"doesn't do anything (but run for President) etc.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/

Missed Votes by Member

* 63.8%
o [Photo of John McCain] Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)
+ Representing: Arizona
+ Votes: 407 votes missed (63.8%), 231 votes cast
* 48.7%
o [Photo of Tim Johnson] Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD)
+ Representing: South Dakota
+ Votes: 311 votes missed (48.7%), 327 votes cast
+ Note: Sen. Johnson suffered a brain hemorrhage on Dec. 13, 2006, and spent several months recovering. He has since returned to the Senate.
* 45.5%
o [Photo of Barack Obama] Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL)
+ Representing: Illinois
+ Votes: 290 votes missed (45.5%), 348 votes cast
* 32.3%
o [Photo of Hillary Clinton] Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
+ Representing: New York
+ Votes: 206 votes missed (32.3%), 432 votes cast
* 30.3%
o [Photo of Joseph Biden] Sen. Joseph Biden (D-DE)
+ Representing: Delaware
+ Votes: 193 votes missed (30.3%), 445 votes cast
* 26.8%
o [Photo of Christopher Dodd] Sen. Christopher Dodd (D-CT)
+ Representing: Connecticut
+ Votes: 171 votes missed (26.8%), 467 votes cast
* 22.1%
o [Photo of Sam Brownback] Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS)
+ Representing: Kansas
+ Votes: 141 votes missed (22.1%), 497 votes cast
* 17.2%
...

In no particular order...

• There will very likely be a Democratic majority in the House and Senate.
• The only real contest is for the Presidency.
• McCain's strength is national security, so everything must be cast in that light.
• A Democratic sweep would threaten Republican gains made since Reagan.
• A Democratic sweep would threaten the relevancy of the Republican party for years.
• The greatest Republican fear is an effective Democratic administration.
• The nation at risk is the nation as perceived or imagined by the Republican party.

That the rhetoric is very tightly focused on that race may also account for an increase in its apparent magnitude.

When people genuinely believe that the opposition is an intolerable, irrevocable threat (ie, one cannot simply wait out their term in office), they start resorting to violence ... Thankfully, that hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it will get to that point.

Except a couple of cases of "nuts" shooting up a Unitarian church and assassinating a state's Democratic Party Chairman.

Let me help explain the difference between Campaign 2000 and this one.

I think it's clear that Campaign 2000 constitutes one of the greatest acts of journalistic malpractice in American history. Especially in 1999 (less so in 2000), the big mainstream news orgs were plainly taking their messaging straight from the RNC; this was true from "invented the Internet" on. But that slander campaign was almost a joke on the part of Jim Nicholson's RNC. Simply put, they kept inventing ludicrous claims about Gore, and the press corps kept rushing to embellish them further. It was completely cynical on the part of the RNC, and I'm sure that Nicholson must have been astonished at some point to see how easily he could peddle his messages. (I'd guess this happened early on, in the spring of 1999.) But this wasn't based on real belief. The RNC didn't really believe that Gore was a delusional liar. They just discovered that, if they kept pretending he was and kept inventing silly claims, the mainstream news orgs would ceaselessly pimp them. (The three major villains, though everyone played: Washington Post, New York Times, NBC/MSNBC.)

Kevin sees something different this time--real fear that Obama would wreck the known world. The RNC didn't think any such thing about Candidate Gore. They were basically f*cking around, and they all basically knew it. It was the MSM who truly believed that Beelzebub had arrived on the scene. They believed that because 1) Bill Clinton had engaged in oral sex, and 2) Al Gore hadn't yet murdered him.

In 1999 and 2000, the RNC was just clowning around, basically taking candy from babies. It was the mainstream press which had lost its mind. This year, Kevin says, it's the conservative world which has lost its marbles.

This year, Kevin says, it's the conservative world which has lost its marbles.

Well, you say that, Bob, but I really don't see much evidence that they're not again pushing the message for their base's benefit without actually believing it. Can you explain why you think they're sincere in their hysteria?

Glad you allow posts here.
Barack just plain sucks. I want to vote for Hillary.

"Conservatives, and neoconservatives in particular, have always thrived on a sense of being surrounded by manifest, civilization-threatening dangers."

um. Which political grouping is presently running around claiming, quite literally, that global warning will cause the end of human civilization and even extinction?

In fairness, this mentality was quite common among liberals in 2004 -- a lot of people thought re-electing Bush would destroy the nation. And they were pretty much right.

This campaign is different because Conservatism itself is on trial, and it is being found guilty.

1976: Vote is against corrupt Republican Party in wake of Watergate rather than Conservative Principles.
1980: Conservatism Wins Convincingly
1984: Conservatism Wins Convincingly
1988: Conservatism Wins
1992: It's the Economy, Stupid--Conservatives blame their loss on economic cycle, Bush I's elitism and failure to conform to Conservative dogma
1996: Clinton on trial, and he wins
2000: Clinton on trial, and he loses (indirectly)
2004: Conservatism Wins

Now we come to 2008. Why is the Republican Party unpopular? It's unpopular because its domestic policy of giving lots of money to rich people hasn't worked, and its foreign policy of never negotiating hasn't worked. For years to come, Conservatives who say that all of our problems will be solved by lowering taxes, deregulating, and firing weapons will be met with the reply that that's what Bush II tried, and it was a failure. The Conservative Period of our history will be dated 1980-2008, and that sucks if you're a Conservative. The pendulum is swinging away from them, and they are not happy about it.

don't forget the fact that not only will America be destroyed from outside, but also inside, when the majority of Americans supporting Obama achieve their longed-for socialist/communist (depends on who's hyperventilating) revolution. i'm dying for a good piece in a major print news outlet making the brushing-my-teeth, curling-my-hair motion in the direction of the GOP congressional candidates who keep making this charge.

They're sincerely worried about the threat of being locked out of the candy store.

That's it.

The rest is faux faw foe.

Those I know who call themselves "conservative," aren't. Of course, I live in a very red state. So, the moonhowlers -- so-called conservatives -- I hear, are indeed terrified of an Obama victory.

They're also equally terrified that their souls will be captured by cameras taking their pictures, or that the moon will be eaten during an eclipse -- while they're howling at it.

So, Obama scares them. France scares them. Geography, soccer, libraries, blacked-out football games, and all Nostradamus' prophesies scare them.

Now that the one sensible president since Saint Ronald is about to hang up his slurs, they only have McCain.

And HE scares them.

This is backwards, as I see things. We are in danger of falling apart if McCain is elected. The U.S. didn't fall apart the last time the Dems held the presidency. However, things have deteriorated unbelievably fast over the past 8 years. I'm not sure if we can survive much more of this. And that's what McCain promises...

um. Which political grouping is presently running around claiming, quite literally, that global warning will cause the end of human civilization and even extinction? Posted by: a

Actually, a-hole, it's not a "political grouping" (did he mean groping?), but pretty much the entire world that understands this. But it's the 30% or so dead-enders who will be wetting themselves and blaming the government in a couple decades if we find places like the Maldives, most of coastal Florida, Manhattan and Long Islands, countless Pacific atolls, Bangladesh, parts of Burma, etc., etc. under a couple feet of water. Then there is the gradual desertification of the temperate regions.

Need Better Trolls.

Now there I disagree with you... Sure, many of the former players have checked out this time, but there are enough standing by to push the familiar buttons. The storytellers may not believe the tale they're spinning this time around, but they're banking on there being enough confusion and disinformation among their base about Islam and terrorism to make the "How much do we know about him?"/"Who is he really?"/"Is his loyalty to Islam?"/"He's kind of a risky choice" crap fly.

Not sure where the disagreement lies. There's no question but that the buttons are being pushed, but I don't find much novel about this season's buttons. Kevin's point was that the flying monkeys were pushing the buttons even more feverishly than they have in years past. My point (and it's no more insightful than Kevin's) is that they are not; this is simply what flying monkeys do. They can't help themselves. McCain was the default, and they have no loyalty to him, per se (as they certainly seemed to with W). This is just their preternatural instinct.

"it's a sense — a deep and genuine sense — that they believe an Obama presidency would be so weak and so feckless that it might lead to the eventual destruction of the country..."

No, no, no! That is not what they're afraid of. They are really, really afraid that an Obama presidency would not be weak and feckless, and would not be the disaster they are secretly wishing for. Then the conservative movement would truly be finished.

They are fighting for control of this country and their wallets.

They may be panic stricken but they will speak with their wallets.

This ain't over and it will get worse.

What do rats do when cornered?

The hysteria is not because they believe the survival of the nation is at stake, but because the survival of their precious nasty ideology is at stake. It's like 1932. The nation is suffering because of the failures of conservative ideology. The election of a Democrat will initiate a 40-year cycle of progressive government, and conservatives, like the rats that they are, will snarl and bite to avoid that. All they have left, really, is nasty.

The visceral emotions of the right are predictable and entirely uninteresting.

They have no concern whatever for the welfare of the nation, but a deep and abiding fear of their own loss of power. (The last eight year have taught us that if nothing else). Sadly, some of them may even be unaware of this.

However, I am concerned about the lack of the reverse -- i.e. no one in the reality based community, with the possible exception of Josh Marshall, seems anywhere NEAR concerned enough about a McCain presidency.

The single saving grace of Bush's presidency is that nuclear war has been somehow avoided. It is very hard to see how John McCain can repeat that achievement.

Why is the Republican Party unpopular? It's unpopular because its domestic policy of giving lots of money to rich people hasn't worked, and its foreign policy of never negotiating hasn't worked. For years to come, Conservatives who say that all of our problems will be solved by lowering taxes, deregulating, and firing weapons will be met with the reply that that's what Bush II tried, and it was a failure. The Conservative Period of our history will be dated 1980-2008, and that sucks if you're a Conservative. The pendulum is swinging away from them, and they are not happy about it. [reino]

That sounds right to me...

They're convinced that Russia is on the march, China is on the rise, Islam is a transcendent threat, we live on the cusp of world historical times, and if Barack Obama becomes president we're all probably doomed.

This is interesting and gets to the heart, I think, of the impending full-blown panic among the NRO crowd. It's a post-post-cold war world and 9/11 didn't play out in that suitably apocalyptic way that NRO-type conservatives (and their allies in industry) required in order to maintain their nasty ideological and political sway: war without end: amen. (Oh, and gutted government too). The game's up.

What scares me about Obama is how naive he is about foreign policy.

It's all about the Supreme Court, people. If a Democrat wins in November, Republicans lose their shot at being able to stack the SC with conservative justices. The next retirements will be the most liberal of the sitting justices, most of whom are waiting for the Bush presidency to conclude before retiring.

I see several perceived sorts of apocalypses. The most obvious, is that Obama has the potential (not saying he will live up to it), of making a fundamental shift in politics, i.e. he could maybe be a 21st century Roosevelt. Then God will punish us because of teh gays. Then we have the general atmosphere of financial collapse. Then we have the pending collapse of the empire. Then we have the peak oil types, telling us that civilization is due for a major retrenchment, and humanity for a dieoff. Finally we have human induced climate change. So an end of the world sort of atmosphere does in fact prevail. Of course other than point #1 there is not much a conservative victory could do about the other threats.

So yes, in many ways, we are approaching the unhappy end of an era, and they think it will be just awful if they don't have control of the helm!

All they have left, really, is ...

McNasty.

Heh, because of global climate change an end of the world atmosphere really DOES exist.

Face it, without catastrophic near apocalyptic change, humanity is doomed by the next century. The one good thing about the energy crisis is that it makes people travel less so bird flu (that could kill 3 billion) might spread slower.

Another reason for Conservatives to be concerned: The argument against McCain is that he is the next Bush. The same exact argument will work in 2012 and 2016 against whatever loser the Republicans put up.

It's fear, self-doubt, wonder at why when they had total control they weren't able to make more of it, a terrible feeling that deregulation hasn't achieved everything they had hoped that it would, and a sickening feeling that a lot of problems coming about(the deficit, the economy, access to health care, etc, etc) might be related to conservatives's governance. And fear can make someone dangerous. They still have the power of the corporation, the media, concentrated effort in congress, and AM radio so they could easily still pull it out and retain great power.

Neoconservatives have a genuine fear of losing their country, Israel, if Joe Lieberman's buddy isn't elected.

The argument against McCain is that he is the next Bush. The same exact argument will work in 2012 and 2016 against whatever loser the Republicans put up.

I think you're right. However, no Republican official has the guts to be the first to take the one step which defuses this argument: a Republican call for Bush's impeachment.

If the conservative swine that have been in power the last eight years feel doomed, it is very good news for the rest of us.

*

::I'm curious to know if anyone else has been picking up on a sense that conservatives are genuinely starting to panic over the possibility of a Barack Obama presidency?::

Well, according to the Village gasbags, the fact that Obama maintains a small but persistent lead in the polls and isn't up by 5 zillion to the power of a kajillion points spells doom for him right now means they have nothing to panic about. Unless...

::My beliefe is that McInsane's internals are giving him a much bleaker picture than the national polls::

From the way his campaign has been behaving lately, I'm beginning to believe more and more that this must be the case.

If Kevin's conservatives actually believe that an Obama presidency would constitute an existential threat to the Republic, then certainly a spot of vote suppression, even a few "bits" of electronic tampering in some key precincts (insert shameless Diebold Variations whoring here), would then be deeply patriotic acts, for all they might be technically illegal—the Right has nothing but scorn for criminals who skate on technicalities unless, of course, they are Republicans—and it is not to be wondered at that such measures could be summoned forth by the emergency. I'm personally a little more concerned that if the race isn't close by October, if McCain is looking like Bob Dole, then the same desperate sentiments might move these powerful patriots to invoke what Gore Vidal has called "the fourth branch of government," AKA The Lone Crazed Gunman. Except...I think a car bomb rather than a carbine would be the more sensible weapon this time, since it would fit more readily into the "terrorism" narrative, and map nicely onto the proven Kirov technique of eliminating a bothersome rival while simultaneously employing the death to justify the imposition of draconian domestic reprisals. I call that a win-win for the Right Stuff, and will now doff my tinfoil fedora.

Expect right wing political violence if Obama wins.

Remember:

The Michigan Militia
The OK city bombing
The Atlanta Olympics
The Cessna crashed into the White house
The gay bar bombings and the doctor shootings

These folks are violent.

The conservative posters like Chicounsel and mhr are the type of right wing fanatics that scare the hell out of me. So what if the country is $10 TRILLION in debt? So what if 40% of all the national debt since George Washington has been added by Bush? So what if we were lied into an unnecessary war that has devoured hundreds of thousands of lives (4,000+ American) and hundreds of billions of dollars? So what if the government is experiencing levels of corruption (no-bid contracts, money just disappearing, etc.) not seen since the 19th century? So what if we are using tortures of a kind that we punished people for after World War II? So what if the infrastructure of the country is crumbling? Conservatives simply say, SO DAMNED WHAT? They don't care. America is dying because of people like Chicounsel and mhr. The conservatives are killing America. They've raped its economy, they've damaged its military, they've ruined its international standing, and they have worsened every single problem in the country. Now they want to put into office an emotionally unbalanced man who promises to simply extend the disaster of the last 8 years further, a man using the ugliest tactics ever to win.

My message to conservatives is simple:

STOP DESTROYING MY COUNTRY. I refuse to call it yours any more. Since you don't give a damn about what happens to it, you've forfeited your right to call it yours.

I get this same vibe. My parents, college educated and normally rational people, are completely unhinged over this election. They are utterly convinced that Obama is a) a Muslim terrorist, b) a Communist, and c) The Anti-Christ. My own mother last night said to me that if Obama got elected, none of us will still be alive in four years, and she really believed it.

Well... they do sort of have to get themselves all wound up to justify the next 4 years of vicious attacks wherein they try to keep his administration from accomplishing anything. Because if people see that government really CAN work for them, the Rs are doomed, and it ain't got anything to do with Russia China, or Islamofascism.

"...we live on the cusp of world historical times, and if Barack Obama becomes president we're all probably doomed."

As you say, the Rs have caught a case of the same disease Hillary had/s.

The very real prospect of a black president seems to do that to people.

They're convinced that Russia is on the march, China is on the rise, Islam is a transcendent threat, we live on the cusp of world historical times....

Wrong, Kevin. As so many other have said, they do not beleive this. They just feel that they have been endowed by nature and/or training to be the rightful "rulers" of this land. So they use the best tool in their tool box to wrest control of this state from others.

Dick Cheney, unless he is dumber than a garden hoe, believed little of the pre-war hype he manufactured, but boy was he willing to use it.

Oh, congrats on the move. Been with ya for over five years and looking forward to the new vibe.

Their problem is they've been quite anti-McCain, and they now have to make an emotional transition, work themselves up.

Kevin, the answer is so obvious that I can't believe you don't get it - Republicans are in a panic because the presidency is their only hope of holding on to any sort of power. Period. Full Stop.

Don't ascribe any altruistic reasons to their hysteria. They know that Congress is lost - most governorships are going to go Democratic or are in weak states (California being a noteworthy exception). In crude terms, the GOP IS FUCKED. The White House is their chance to retain some semblance of power. They lose that and they are backbenchers again - BIG TIME!!!

I agree with most commenters about the state of the Republican Party and the need to drive it out of power. McCain is a bad man and nothing good will happen if he is elected.

Having said all of the above, I'd be less than honest if I didn't also note that Obama is starting to look more and more like that empty suit referenced above. I invite any of you to cite any movement on Obama's part to try to address the fears many have about him. In fact, cite anything he's doing to help people like me help HIM. Nothing there, folks. Mr. laid-back Obama is proving to be a disappointment. We Americans like our politicians to show fire and to bring more to the table than lofty pronouncements. Sure, McCain's lying and is totally off-base in what he says, but he says it like a "true fighting Murrican," rather than a fey college prof. Recall this hopelessly inept criminal we now have was elected because people liked him.

Check Adlai Stevenson some time. Of course, he was an underdog. Better yet, check Kerry and Gore, two stiffs who should have won, but whose demeanor, unlikability and refusal to fight back killed them.

Joe Cool could lose this thing. Although I could never vote for McCain, Obama's moving me closer to not doing anything at all on that presidential ballot line.

If you think the survival of the nation is at stake, you're certainly not going to be worried about a bit of freelance political smearing, are you?

I think the causal arrow points in the other direction. These are competitive shallow people who fundamentally don't believe in democracy (whose organizing principle is that sometimes the other guy wins). Their psyche simply can't stand "their team" not winning.

So, it obviously has to be the end of the world. Because it's the end of the world for them. And they're self-important narcissists with delusions of grandeur. If THEY lose, AMERICA must lose!

Conservatives can't afford to speak the truth of their real intentions, and very few people outside the 99th income percentile would like it if they heard it. So they speak in debate-proof grandiose, apocolyptic terms which make them sound tough, deeply concerned for we poor defenseless types, responsibly forward-thinking, and steely-eyed. And people fall for it, then wonder why their benefits are cut, bridges fall down, kids come home in boxes, parks close, traffic gets worse, etc.

Remember: November 4th - Be there or be scared.

Nixon:
In fact, cite anything he's doing to help people like me help HIM

What are people like you? Really.

I am not at your level of anxiety. I was several times during the primary season. Obama did many things that I felt were counter-intuitive. Yet he won going away.

Now of course, his opposition then was not so hot and tended toward self destruction. Still, Obama has earned a degree of trust from me that he sees what's out there and he has a rational plan to get things done. I expect that you, dear Nixon, will have more to think about after the convention.

Nixon Did It: You're not going to vote for Obama because you think he's going to lose? What good does that do?

Joe Cool could lose this thing. Although I could never vote for McCain, Obama's moving me closer to not doing anything at all on that presidential ballot line.
Posted by: Nixon Did It

Why the fuck would you concede that the current war criminal was elected because of ignorant dipshits who voted personality, further concede that mccain is a lying and ignorant disaster waiting to happen, and then suggest that obama somehow hasn't impressed YOU with his personality???

could it possibly be that you and your priorities are exactly what's wrong with this country, and how we choose elected leaders? could it be that, if you and other americans were better informed and less shallow, some 4000 americans and >200,000 Iraqis wouldn't be dead?

grow the fuck up. ... please.

Nixon Did It -- The "please oh please I want to do the right thing and the other guy is a bastard but our candidate is just too wimpy so I'll just sit it out..." is complete bullshit.

So get off your ass and do something. Stop whining. Make a decision. Stop blaming everyone else for your lack of spine.

Or admit that deep down inside--all the faux excuses aside--you have no spine and will simply vote for the guy with the biggest dick.

It's a couple of things, Kevin...

- 80's culture is making a comeback. The Red Scare. Red Dawn. Wargames. Communist Olympic Woes. Our society is regressing to a simpler time when the threats were identified with solid-color flags embossed with pagan symbols.

- Even worse, Obama and McCain both admire Ronald Reagan. This feeds into my first point. 80's culture is the new culture, and this is the first time in eight years that both parties get teary-eyes for Ronald Reagan. What Would Ronnie Do? He'd climb a mountain of puny terrorists to fight the Reds single-handedly.

Conservatives are scared because that's their natural state. And they yearn for a leader that just makes sense to them. I'm not convinced that Conservatives are experiencing panic attacks over Obama. In fact, I think that they are starting to rally behind the stoic old man that will stand against threats that lay on the other side of the Pacific. And give us all hard candy when we come visit.

PTate in MN: The election of a Democrat will initiate a 40-year cycle of progressive government...

Not sure about a "40-year cycle", but any plan to contain, much less roll back, the New Deal, will likely go out the window if Obama wins. The thought of that must be causing RNC heads to explode.

Never mind any external threats, that alone is sufficient for the RNC to deem such an event the end-of-civilization--or at least civilization as perceived or imagined by the RNC.

I think Kevin's got it all wrong again-- covering up for the conservatives by saying that they resort to their slimeball tactics out of some noble motives rather than greed.

Holy crap, Kevin. I've been reading your stuff for over 4 years? I think I discovered you toward the end of your Calpundit days. Oh well, I guess I can follow you to Mother Jones. Good Luck, cj

But I'm curious to know if anyone else has been picking up on a sense that conservatives are genuinely starting to panic over the possibility of a Barack Obama presidency?

Good lord. Sometimes the delusions on the devoted left are astonishing.

The Republicans have been largely convinced that Obama was going to win this thing going away until about two weeks ago. Only now are most of them starting to barely hope that McCain might win.

But if getting it exactly backwards counts as right, then hey! You're right.

This South African is a long, long way away from your country and doesn't watch TV.

However, the fact is that people bullshit themselves before they can bullshit others. Therefore, if Republicans are running panic stories about the whole world coming to get them, they probably believe it.

In a sense, you know, they are right. Americans do not, I think, yet fully realise how much their government is hated and despised elsewhere in the world. This started particularly after you let us all down after the Cold War, when your government behaved with such greed and contempt, but there was little that anyone else could do about it.

Now, on the other hand, the US is an economic basket case thanks to eight years of pissing your capital down the sink (if China sinks into recession, the whole American economy is toast), and you have started two wars with tiny weak countries which you have managed to turn into catastrophes. Your military assistance to Israel and Georgia turned into disasters in Lebanon and South Ossetia.

America had two advantages; wealth and military power. Rightly or wrongly, the rest of the world doesn't believe that you still have these, or will have them for much longer. We aren't coming to get you, but we are starting to realise that we can get along very well without you (check out the "G20" some time).

For a jingoist American nationalist, this is pretty much the end of the world. Of course, it is largely the nationalists who caused the problem. But they are not going to admit it, are they?

This is a little late in this thread, but let me try to plant a transcendent issue meme.

Question: What are the three greatest threats to civilization?

My answers are:

1) Population overshoot
2) Global Climate Change
3) Peak Oil

They're convinced that Russia is on the march, China is on the rise, Islam is a transcendent threat, we live on the cusp of world historical times, and if Barack Obama becomes president we're all probably doomed.

Gee, maybe the problem is that they are taking on too much. Whatever happened to local problems? :-)

The reason Republicans are so concerned about an Obama presidency is that they won't have another mouthpiece to cover up their last 8 years of criminal activity. After January 20th, I bet Karl Rove won't be as visible over at FOX as he is today.

As if to prove Kevin's point, I just got this e-mail from Townhall:

Subject line: Headed for Obamageddon?

Friends,

The Democrat's convention is just six days away.

Big media is swooning over him like love-sick teenagers. People are acting as if he's the greatest celebrity on Earth or even some sort of cult leader -- the "Obamamessiah."

The problem with this mainstream media storyline is that the polls show the race is within the margin of error and by no means is there a ground swell of support for Barack Obama.

Americans need to stand up now and show our opposition to the radical left agenda that a President Obama would impose on us. Now is the time for us to stand up to the New York Times and their liberal media cronies and show our opposition to Obama. Join the NObama revolution.

Click here now and order your NOBAMA yard sign and bumper sticker set.

Act now to place the NOBAMA yard sign in front of your home and arm yourself with this important information about our border, the housing crisis and the dangers of an Obama presidency.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Garthwaite
Editor-in-Chief, Townhall.com

That's the thing-- they have no love for McCain this year so instead all they're left with is ginning up HATRED and FEAR of Obama. That is how this election cycle is going to be essentially different, at least in years past they ADORED Bush.

Their fears are pure baloney. Peddling paranoia is like Weimar currency.

What scares me about Obama is how naive he is about foreign policy.

Naive. Like looking into Putin's eyes and seeing a good soul? Or naive like invading Iraq and not planning for the occupation? Or naive like believing we would be hailed as heroes at said invasion? Or naive like stating "We are all Georgians"? Yes naive.

Actually, many American so-called "conservatives" would be secretly delighted with an Obama presidency. It will give them an opportunity to enjoy the two things that matter most to conservatives:

1. Wallowing in self-pity at being the poor-pitiful oppressed victims of "powerful liberal elites" (i.e. the Gospel According to Rush Limbaugh), and ...

2. Wallowing in an orgy of hatred that they have not been able to enjoy since the Clintons were in the White House. (Face it, conservatives: hero-worship of George W. Bush is just not as thrilling as seething hatred of Bill and Hillary Clinton, is it?)

Modern American so-called "conservatism" has no real content except scapegoating and hating "liberals", much as the "political philosophy" of certain people in 1930s Germany had no real content except scapegoating and hating "Jews".

An Obama presidency will fulfill the deepest, most heartfelt desires of so-called "conservatives" -- the desire for someone to blame, and the desire for someone to hate.

The fate of the nation IS at stake but not because of Russia, China, Islam, or even Obama. It is at stake because of a decade of neocon/GOP criminality and robbery. They have spent the nation onto the verge of true collapse as only conservatives can. They spend, spend, spend ALL ON THE WRONG THINGS while cutting taxes (the source of funding required to spend on ANYTHING).

The nation is at stake and on the verge but it is entirely because of the insane and criminal actions of the GOP.

I see this in the context of the right wing authoritarian base.

See this book.

I think the loonies are speaking directly to their authoritarian base. That base knows very well what cult leaders and followers are, because they themselves are very much cult followers.

So they are saying - look out, this guy is dangerous, because he's got a cult following and you ALL know how powerful that can be! Ooooooh!

Now we reasonable people will say how ironic, they denounce cult followers while being one. Indeed the Daily Show frequently uses that style of humor.

Maddeningly though the authoritarian followers are unable to see that connection. Really. Their compartmentalized brains simply cannot make that connection!

So these warnings speak directly to the base and also to the authoritarian follower streak that may exist to some degree in all of us.

Pointing out the internal conflict will simply not work with this group. Reasoning with them will not work with them either. The only thing that might work is time - time for them to eventually see the cognitive dissonance. Personal experience might work, too, but that is hard to give on a large scale.

Exposing one of their leaders works temporarily but other leaders quickly step forward and capture them back since they are such easy pickings.

Putting things bluntly we've got a large potentially dangerous cult in our midst. If we were amoral Republicans we'd steal them and use them for our own purposes. Or we might splinter them into smaller groups to fight against themselves.

Instead, being reasonable people, we try to reason with them and wonder why we always fail.

Chico,

I am fully confident that the American people are not yet stupid enough, the public schools notwithstanding, to elect such an empty suit to the White House.

Oh. My. God. You pop back in after so long to say that?!

Please tell me you have been away on some deserted isle for the past four years and have no idea who was elected president in 2004. Please?

Otherwise you are simply helpless and only useful as an illustration of what deluded really means.

You might also illustrate the authoritarian follower mindset. You do seem to be able to hold two conflicting ideas in your mind while experiencing no cognitive dissonance.

Hmmm, say something and let's test my theory, shall we? Go ahead. Please.

Obama will not be president-- at least not so far on the evidence. Given McCain's weaknesses, he should be streets ahead. Instead we have the Rick Warren debacle, where millions of evangelical votes appear to have slipped out of his fingers.

This conservatist alarmism is nothing more than 'phase B' of an intricate multi-phased plan a la Karl Rove, to beat Obama.

Mobilise the faithful, regardless of their doubts re mcCain, on the fear that Obama could win.

A photo finish in November, and my dibs is that it will be McCain-- with the help of a few voter denial ops. Call me a pessimist.

A photo finish in November, and my dibs is that it will be McCain-- with the help of a few voter denial ops. Call me a pessimist.

I agree. I also posit that the Democraps will once again take the wrong message away from their defeat and blame it on not being Republican enough. They will believe that they need to be MORE Jesus! MORE anti-worker. MORE pro-corporatist. MORE pro-war. MORE MORE MORE of exactly the opposite of what their loss will actually mean: they continually fail to distinguish themselves from the GOP and so there is no need to vote for them when you can get a REAL GOPer by simply voting GOPer. That is for those that turn out to vote. The MANY that will not turn out to vote will fail to vote because Obama and the Democraps failed again to give them a reason to vote for them.

The only thing Republicans really fear is a Successful Democratic presidency. They aren't afraid he will destroy the country, (as I am of McCain) they are afraid he will fix it. Obama has the potential to be a good, popular president, so he terrifies them. If Obama is successful, Republicans will lose their power for a generation.

If conservatives really do think this, then they are bigger idiots then we would have thought. Obama, if elected, won't be as much of bully as Bush, but that's a good thing, not a bad thing. It is W's feckless disregard of the Constituion and the rule of law that threatens the future of the union.

"Which political grouping is presently running around the country claiming, quite literally, that global warming will cause the end of human civilization and even extinction. Posted by a"

I believe they are called Climate Scientists a$$hole! Reminds me of the quote by Salvadore Dali-"The only difference between Dali and a crazy man is Dali is not crazy". Conservatives apparently think everything is fine in the USA. They can't face the fact that they have screwed everything, and I mean everything, up. Trashed the Justice Department by politicization, failed to defend against major terrorist attacks, started 2 failed wars that they now don't know how to end, squandered the surplus, tanked the economy with all their deregulation of the financial industry, millions of foreclosures, inflation raging, dollar in toilet, deficits as far as the eye can see, trashed the constitution, Habeas corpus eliminated, illegal spying on american citizens, due process denied, political prosecutions, torture, and on and on and on. But of course in their minds, all we need is a few more wars to straighten everything out.
The only difference between liberals and conservatives is liberals ARE NOT CRAZY.

Two points, ValueT -

First off, your prediction has as much validity as mine or anyone else's - zero. How many people in 2007 were confidently asserting that neither Hilary nor Giuliani would be in the race at this point?

And on Obama losing millions of evangelical votes - are you even serious?? You're actually suggesting that there's millions of anti-abortion, anti-stem-cells, anti-secular people who were nevertheless receptive to vote for Obama, but he couldn't close the deal? Why? What could Obama possibly have done to get those millions of evangelicals on his side, apart from some McCain-level pandering about faith-based surgery and so forth?

No, Obama at Saddleback was a success because 1) he showed up, 2) no gaffes or awkward statements the media could have played 24/7, and 3) he showed the crowd he was a reasonable and legitimate candidate for president. Since the Republicans can't win if they can't show Obama as this weird mysterious foreigner, Obama gained from his Saddleback appearance.

Just another instance of the left and right being mirror images emotionally and rhetorically. (The Daisy Girl commercial springs to mind: would Goldwater *really* have brought us nuclear war?) It's also a symptom of the danger of rhetoric: you end up believing it - and drinking the cyanide-flavored KoolAid.

Joining late and not having read the other comments, so forgive me if this has already been said, but Kevin seems to be surprisingly gullible in taking conservatives at their word. Demonizing and fearmongering are their favored tactics, and it's really beside the point whether they believe it. Hell, maybe they do believe it, but even if they didn't they'd be saying exactly the same thing.

Maybe we wouldn't have reason to be afraid of any of those things, even if they were real problems, if the Republicans hadn't put us $15Trillion in debt, shipped all our manufacturing jobs overseas, destroyed our military in Iraq, made us scary to the rest of the world and left Al Qaeda in Pakistan untouched.

If we have reason to be afraid it's because John McCain is in the race for the Presidency.

It's possible to take criticism of this sort of alarmism too far. Russia is on the march, China is on the rise, and (a fanatic kind of) Islam is a significant (albeit not necessarily transcendent) threat. And I for one think that we should take those challenges seriously and consider how the respective candidates propose to address them. Neither one has completely satisfied me yet.

But I certainly agree with you (and most of the commenters) that there is no particular cause for partisan alarm. Electing John McCain will not change those things, and electing Barack Obama will not mean that the world-ending scenarios that those challenges will necessarily come about. These are some of the challenges the U.S. will face in the upcoming few years. We've faced other kinds of challenges before, with both Democrats and Republicans in power, and come out more or less all right at the end of it all.

KEVIN

YOU HAVE THIS ONE RIGHT ON. THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THE R,S IS THAT THEY FINALLY REALIZE THAT THEIR BOY MCCAIN HAS VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO OFFER THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BUT FEAR. SAME OLD SAME OLD

[Richard, would you turn your caps lock off please? Thank you, --Mod]

a1

The argument with Obama was always that there were moderate evangelicals who would tilt. Before W, the evangelical vote did not split 90/10 Republican, I believe.

He's not closed that deal, at least from what reads in the British press about Saddleback. McCain on the other hand, who is a negative quantity to many evangelicals (who might have stayed away from the polls, remember Rove always said that the 2000 electorate loss in popular vote was due to the evangelicals not showing up) has reassured them enormously.

So McCain has closed the deal with the Republican base, there won't, most likely, be a voter's strike in November.

Agree re predictions mine even less so than experts.

But I think it is telling that Obama cannot shoot ahead in the polls. The same thing happened to Kerry, and by the end, he just couldn't close the gap.

A bit like Humphrey after LBJ-- Nixon way ahead, then Humphrey closed the gap. Ditto Gore v. Bush. Or Ford v. Carter. The challenger has to start way out in front, because the incumbent party will carve his lead.

Obama just hasn't made the impact. A big chunk of the electorate, by which I mean the people who will really vote, is just not sold on him.

I think it will come down, again, to Ohio, because I can't see Florida going for Obama (veterans and old people-- the generational split is tangible), and I think Pennsylvania for Obama.

Of the other Kerry-Bush states, I can't really see any changing sides. Indiana, North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado don't really strike me as likely to go Democrat this year.

You could call this election the last hurrah of the older white male. The shifting demographics of the American electorate suggest that it is the last time a John McCain-type candidate can win easily.

But the older white vote will turn out in force, as it always does, and that is the group that is least sold on Obama (except for the usual urban/ coastal 'elites' ie more than bachelors degree and not MBA-lawyers, urban living).