It'll be interesting to see if Sirota is willing to repeat his previous and correct comments on Biden:

All good Democrats and progressives should make a deal with Biden: he can continue stabbing his own party in the back with impunity for his own self-promotion, and say his party doesn't speak for him. In exchange, Biden should agree to never, ever claim to speak for Democrats. Remember, this is a Senator who (among other things) led the fight to pass the bankruptcy bill, voted against limiting the interest credit card companies can gouge consumers with, voted against limiting predatory lending, voted against protecting consumers when their identity is stolen, voted for the Iraq War and voted to confirm Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. This says nothing about him perpetually floating his name for President, even though the last time he ran, he got caught pathetically trying to plagiarize people's speeches.

Is it a deal, Joe? We won't speak for you, as long as you never, ever try to claim your record is representative of us. Sounds pretty fair - and believe me, in the long run, the Democratic Party would be getting the better end of the bargain.

I think it's a good choice. Biden is very strong on the stump. He will bring the thunder to the Repukeliscum turds. He's a guy with his own mind.

I applaud the choice.

That item you quoted convinced me, too. It was actually a very moving piece. Thanks for the link; I was looking for that earlier.

I'm pleased. I've been arguing "outside" guy - say, Brian Schweitzer - but Biden makes sense.

Look for the Republicans to bring up "Neal Kinnock" but, god forbid, we bring up "Charles Keating".

But is he Elitist enough?

I like your new digs, Steve. Congrats!

While I've always had a love/hate thing for Biden, he may be the perfect choice for Obama. His presence on the ticket should neutralize the media's slothful narrative that McCain has an expertise advantage in foreign matters. And as 'attack dogs' go, he's simply the best from either party. His "A noun, a verb, and 9/11" is the takedown punch of the last few cycles.

McCain's decided that his only chance of winning is to make the election an ugly mudfight. With Biden returning the fire, it's a strategy he's likely to regret.

I'm convinced; if Petey is against Biden then I'm for him. Thanks for helping me see the light, pal.

Biden would likely follow Cheney's example and not spend his time positioning himself for a run in 2016.

This is my greatest reservation about the pick. Without an heir apparent you risk a running intra-party war for the succession that tends to be unhelpful. Well, we won't need to worry about that for a 5-6 years if Obama can get himself elected, and I think Biden will be an asset for that.

The VP rollout was masterful, frustrating the villagers and dominating the news cycle. Let's see more of that as the campaign moves forward.

This could have been a LOT worse.

Biden is at least a "Democrat," not some DINO/BlueDawg like Bayh, or an Opus Dei acolyte like Tim Kaine.

Probably, naming Hilary was just too much, especially given the ever-present specter of teh Clenis.

And in the long run, it probably doesn't really matter much. Obama will be installed as President if the Oiligarchs and Pollutocrats decide there's time enough before the inevitable crash to teach the 'uppity' portion of the electorate their lesson.

Otherwise, Bombin' John will assume the mantel of New American Dictator, kept in "check" by a pretty compliant Congress, its loyalty far outweighing its opposition...

The major decisions all seem to be tests - and so far Obama has passed them all.

McSames' (iamginary) foriegn policy chops have disappeared AND bonus points for Barack - McSame is not able to pick anyone with real foriegn policy experience without admitting he doesn't have any.

AND do you think NOW the subject of McSame's legendary temper will come up? If the VP candidate starts mouthing off about McRage-ahilic, questions will be asked.

Thank God it is not Bayh or Clinton. I would have preferred someone like Sebilius or Napalitano, but I can live with the Senator from MasterCard.

The build up to Biden was a crashing let down. Hair Plug Joe is a two-time loser and the O camp rolls him out on a red carpet. Bamboozle much?

And Kevin, hate to have to point this out, but the dewy freshness is long off the Obama rose. I am a lifelong dem and I have no idea where this man really stands, as he has constantly shifted ground.

McCain is unstable and rash. Obama is triangulation personified. A pox on both houses.

Anecdotally, I work with a lot of liberal twenty-somethings in my field and O leaves them cold now, so if he's counting on them, he could be counting on nothing.

I'm failing to see Biden's "gravitas" - by my lights Biden's failed to affect *anything* foreign policy related.

Sure, Biden's talked about it, but what's he - you know - *done*?

Are there examples of the Biden Effect on the War in Iraq? Afghanistan? Foreign Policy in General?

Cheney brought gravitas to Bush's campaign by virtue of his being evil incarnate - Biden doesn't rise beyond the level of semi-entertaining blowhard.

-

I like the Biden choice (although I'm discouraged by all the negativity I'm seeing on several blogs' commentsections).

It may be crass to mention, but I think the fact the Biden has a son headed to Iraq is a powerful message for a few reasons:

- How many other congress critters have kids in the military? It speaks well of Biden's son's sense of duty to his country & of the father that raised him.

-Biden can speak out against the war without appearing to demean the troops. "What do you mean I don't support the troops? My son is one of those troops you idiot!"

-I think it kind of humanizes Biden on a personal level. Thousands of families have kids in Iraq (& elsewhere) & Biden can speak to them in a very honest & personal way. While Bush just mouths the words 'I feel your pain & concern', Biden actually means them.

Etc. Anyway, I hope, if Biden decides to play this angle, he doesn't overplay it to the extent that McCain has with his POW experience. That would, indeed, be crass.

"I am a lifelong dem and I have no idea where this man really stands, as he has constantly shifted ground."

Are you kidding? Have you really fallen for a Republican talking point like this? His position shifted on FISA. That's one issue. Everything else is MSM-peddled nonsense.

Take a look at his web site. Listen to a town hall or two. If you don't conclude that he was and still is a bonafide liberal that will try to change things in Washington, I'll be shocked.

The contrast with McCain/Bush couldn't be more stark. If you care about Iraq, healthcare, energy, or education, you'll choose Obama.

I should have directed my bile at Steve, not Kevin.

"I feel rather relieved that it's Biden joining Obama's ticket."

Really, Mr. Benen?? Interesting you didn't reflect on these comments you made in November '07...

"Reading over Biden’s comments, he almost seems to have some disdain for the party, which he sees as too liberal, elitist, cynical, and divisive. In other words, he sounds quite a bit like a Republican."

Now, he was talking to the Union Leader, which is a conservative paper, so maybe he was trying to impress the paper’s editors by repeating their talking points. Perhaps he’s thinking he can angle for an endorsement or something.

"But motivations aside, what on earth is Biden talking about? The party “divides the electorate�? Is only concerned with the base? Is too quick to demonize the wealthy?"

"Is Biden looking at the same Democratic Party as I am?"

Biden's not exciting, and I hate his anti-consumer stances, but he's good enough. I look forward to seeing him make McCain look foolish in foreign policy.

BTW--Ron Fournier's hatchet piece from the AP about Biden underscores Carpetbagger's concern that he'd turn the Washington bureau into a Republican propaganda machine.

Biden's not exciting, and I hate his anti-consumer stances, but he's good enough. I look forward to seeing him make McCain look foolish in foreign policy debates.

BTW--Ron Fournier's hatchet piece from the AP about Biden underscores Carpetbagger's concern that he'd turn the Washington bureau into a Republican propaganda machine.

Biden's not exciting, and I hate his anti-consumer stances, but he's good enough. I look forward to seeing him make McCain look foolish in foreign policy debates.

BTW--Ron Fournier's hatchet piece from the AP about Biden underscores Carpetbagger's concern that he'd turn the Washington bureau into a Republican propaganda machine.

I think this is good.

Biden has more foreign policy chops in his little finger than an army of McCains.

Plus he can tear the bark of McCain up one side and down another without breaking a sweat.

Mr. MBNA is now Obama's presidential choice. Guess it shows how important is to have voted against the Iraq War -- not.

If this reflects the depth of thinking in the Obama campaign all I have to say is US News & World Report better revise its college rankings -- Harvard is producing idiots.

USAToday has a nice rundown of the fodder Biden will provide the Republicans.

My favorite is this one:

"You cannot go into a Dunkin' Donuts or a 7-Eleven unless you have a slight Indian accent."

Others may prefer this one:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Doesn't matter does it?

Clinton supporters will read this for what it truly is, a slap in the face and sit out the election.

Progressives, already stinging from Obama's FISA vote, his pro-gun comments, his reversal on off-shore drilling, will sit this one out.

That leaves right-wing Democrats and independents to try and pull this one out for Team Corporation.

They may do it: McCain is an old stupid white guy. But he is what he is -- and he has far more in common with Obama/Biden than is different.

But we'll see. Either way big business has nothing to fear for the next four years.

Good job America . . . again.

I think Biden is a good pick.

I don't think it realistic to expect any VP pick to have a dramatic and direct electoral impact. People vote for the top of the ticket. However, this is one of the first major decisions that Obama has made in the limelight of a presidential campaign and as such it gives us insight into how Obama works and thinks.

I think this shows that Obama is self confident enough that he doesn't worry that picking a veteran Senator with major foreign policy experience will be seen as an admission of weakness (although I'm sure the McCain camp will try to spin it that way).

Pardon me if I use a Star Trek analogy. Captain Kirk wasn't the smartest person on the Enterprise, that was Spock. He didn't know everything about the ships engines, that was Scotty. What he did have was an ability to surround himself with the best people and to trust them and listen to them. I think this is what you'll get from Obama and Biden.

The Biden pick is just fine by me...and as a progressive I have absolutely no intention of "sitting this one out"..Did I have others I preferred? Sure, but this is definitely important enough to get behind.

And as for the "stupid white guy"...if you cant tell the difference between him and Obama, well you're just not trying very hard...

I was scared to death Obama was going to make the wrong choice, but he didn't. Biden is the best, perhaps the only candidate who can bolster his sagging campaign and bring this thing home in November.

Biden is a fighter, fast on his feet, a great orator, and he's always gotten plenty of press and media coverage. He's just what this campaign needs.

Raff -

John McCain's younger son is a lance coproral in the Marines and served in Iraq.

McCain's older son is graduating the Naval Academy and will likely be in Iraq soon.

The fact you didn't seem to know that is a credit to McCain.

I'm failing to see how the Dems touting the fact that Biden's son will be serving in Iraq brings any sort of political advantage.

-

Taking all things into consideration, I think Biden is a good choice. Anyone who orginates something like this about Giuliani:

There's only three things he mentions in a sentence: a noun, and a verb and 9/11

and

the most under-qualified man since George W. Bush to seek the presidency

is just what the Democrats need at this point.

By the way, if you click on comments, not permalink, the byline still reads "By Kevin Drum."

Favorite Washington Monthly line of all time. "Also, America is no longer a place where citizens care about plagiarism or hair plugs." You can't make this shit up.

Obama didn't shift on the death penlty -- the one thing I disagree with him about the strongest. He didn't shift on FISA -- he thought it was a good bill except for telecom immunity and it was despite the paranoia it inspired from people who neither read the bill nor listened to what he said. He didn't filibuster it because the votes for t.i. were already 60 -- including Webb and, I think, Bayh.

The other 'shifts' simply weren't, except in the minds of McCain/Schmidt.

Seems to me a lot of commenters have forgotten that we're talking about the VP here. He needs to help Obama with getting things through the Senate, he needs to look presidential, he needs to keep his fingers out of the executive branch except to advise Obama. Does anybody want another Cheney, all-powerful yet not accountable? Biden won't do that.

He needs to give the ticket balance, which he does. He needs to be a good campaigner, which he is.

When you look at the selection from those standpoints, this is another example of sound strategic thinking and smart choices by Obama.

And as a plus, we get to elect a new Dem Senator from Delaware, so this won't affect the numbers.

You know, Steve, it's pretty sad when I have to read your blog entry to balance out the NBC "news" article - which read more like a GOP hatchet job. Liberal media, my a--. Thanks for writing it; I feel better. :-)

To those complaining about the timing of the text message - it was probably a requirement put in place with the cell providers in this country that it go out at that time, because the volume of messages being sent would have crashed our crappy systems.

As the EE I live with just explained, one electron has to get out of the way before another one can go, they can't jump over one another. My SIGINT blogging partner compared it to moving stacks of crates.

Clinton supporters will read this for what it truly is, a slap in the face and sit out the election. -Dicksknee at 9:57

This Clinton supporter will be voting for John McCain.

What's funny is this possibly disqualifies Romney for McCain's VP which might cripple him a bit extra. The first chain email smearing Catholics and Biden already went out and Biden is a "man of the people". Selecting Romney the very rich mormon would be a lot harder to support due to disabling an attack vector and inviting out-of-touch richy attacks even more. This might be partially a tactical move to limit McCain's options and I think quite a good one (well I like Biden in general - Obama needed a good attack dog, which was him or Hillary).

I am well-enough pleased with Joe Biden being picked as Obama's running mate. I think he brings lots of experience and "gravitas" to the ticket. I just hope he thinks about "the little guy" and is willing to accept Barack's credit card reform proposals.

BTW, my search on Google tells me (unless I am mistaken) I was first to propose "BO-Joe" [sic first two caps of course] as the cute Hollywood-style nickname for the team.

However we already see the Greedy Old Plutocrats taking advantage of Biden's criticism of BHO as "not yet ready" due to inexperience (especially FoPo) and that will hurt. I suppose BHO will just have to say, "The [Primary] voters made that choice, and my running mate understands that vision is as important in leadership as experience" blah ...

Good luck to them and I will do what I can to get this "cute" pair elected! Don't take any crap off John McCain, fellows!

O'BIDEN 'O8!
JOBAMA!

Let's kick some ass. ~

So. I finally put my moveon bumper sticker on, McCain = Bush third term. Then I'm getting off the Ten. Behind me, a fellow, old guy starts honking like mad. I'm freaking, until I realize he's pointing at my bumper sticker and giving me a double thumbs up!!

Made my day.

Obama/Biden! Rock On!

Now let's get down to it, peeps! Bring on da money bombs!

Ah, well, let's see, you can be a boring old white man and run for president and get about 50 votes or you can be the first woman and run and get 18 million votes but the male's 50 cancels out the female's 18 million. Yep, that sounds about right. Where'd that new politics, time for change thing go anyway? Tell me how Biden substantially differs from Hillary in any major way. You know all these things about Hillary that Obama labelled as tired old politics, Washington as usual. I've never been so discouraged about politics.

I still don't understand it and think it's kind of a slap in the face for a guy who bills himself on change to reject bringing the first woman VP into the White House with him. At the same time, he's also sinking her chance to eventually run for Pres again. It would have sent a lot better message-- that the liberal coalition of minorities, for example working class women and working class racial minorities-- is not divided, and if one is down, the other will reach over to help them up.

In my honest opinion, we should not see Hillary just as an individual because that is not simply what she is, and that is not the context. This is about the history of the whole nation, and what message we send. If Hillary is good enough (and by all measures, she was-- remember, she was the other power-slugger in the primary, as far as popularity and money-raising ability, besides Obama) then she should have been picked. Biden is by comparison a second-stringer. Arguably, the field of candidates running against her shouldn't have even demonstrated so much full-heart competition (including from Obama) because Hillary was "next in line" out of all the people who wanted to be President.

Now Obama is leaving her stuck in the mud more or less just because of some things she said or the media said about her. The stuff about paying her debts doesn't count as sticking up for her, and trying to trade off the convention to get some money to pay her debts actually just makes Hillary look bad.

so much full-heart competition (including from Obama)

Should have been "full-hearted."

And the case for Hillary being "next in line" was this: she had comparable popularity to Obama, and she was older and more experienced (especially having been much closer to the White House for eight years, which the media chauvinistically ignored (abetted by the bloggers) simply because she was the First Lady-- but she was an educated, invloved, insider First Lady, not just a celebrity or a mantlepiece). Skipping her for Obama possibly ruins her chance to to run and therefore leaves our long-term field of Presidential candidates with less total talent for the future.

Even I don't think that argument necessarily wins. Obama seems to have turned out to be significantly more popular. But I'm worried by what I see as signs that the Republicans wanted us to pick Obama (the corrupt mainstream media just didn't go after him hard like they went after Hillary during the primary). That support for Hillary from Rush Limbaugh? A red herring. You really think that guy is dumb enough to tell us who he actually wants us to pick? Remember, Rush Limbaugh is the guy who has been excoriating Hillary constantly-- until she became a Democratic Presidential candidate.

And, we should have had other Presidential material available. Kennedy's son, who should have been a sure-shot for us to win the Presidency a couple of times, once he was persuaded to turn to politics, was killed in a mysterious plane crash. And Eliot Spitzer was exposed in an affair, just when it looked like only Republicans were getting caught doing that (again and again) since after Bill Clinton. But, now we don't have these people, so the loss of Hillary hits harder. If John McCain squeaks by Obama, all we're going to be left with is regret over what our powerhouse ticket (Obama and Hillary) could have been like, and the cold consolation that a bunch of sleazy mainstream media writers had speculated that the White House wasn't big enough for Hill, Bill, and Obama.

A lot of things we're doing now just seem to fly in the face of what should be basic smarts, basic considerations, and standard methods of doing things for us.

A lot of things we're doing now just seem to fly in the face of what should be basic smarts, basic considerations, and standard methods...

Well then maybe we'll win for once.

Anyone who claims to be a Clinton supporter who is voting for McSame is either very very stupid, or more likely, as dishonest as Karl Rove or John McCain.

This Clinton supporter will be voting for John McCain.
Posted by: emmarose

Then I suspect you are past childbearing age, so your vote in favor of appointing 2 backward justices to repeal Roe would affect you little. I'm sure Clinton would approve.

This Clinton supporter will be voting for John McCain.

Doubt it. There are lots of blood vessels in and around the nose. You'll exsanguinate long before November.

Mark Halperin wrote:

Biden may be a ridiculous, overbearing blowhard, and he'll doubtless make foolish blunders and imprudent comments if he's on the ticket,

Actually, it shouldn't be that hard to not do any of those things, especially for an adult who made it into the Senate and is running for VP.

But here is Mark Halperin, endorsing this guy and saying it doesn't matter.

doubtful wrote:

Well then maybe we'll win for once.

Politics isn't roulette. You don't try black because red didn't win last time. Following your (non-logical) kind of way of doing things is what got Bush elected twice and if McCain wins, it will also be the reason that happens.

Some pre-emptive rebuttals...

"Obama lied about his promise to bring 'change'. Biden is a DC insider. This is just a sign Obama is business as usual."

- If Obama didn't pick someone with experience, he would've inevitably faced Ron Fournier's other ready-made "analysis," Obama and Veep Pick In Over Their Heads

"But still, what about Obama's mantra of 'change'?"

- Obama, not Biden, is the on the top of the ticket. He'll be calling the shots. And if you're expecting a Lloyd Bentsen, John Edwards or even Al Gore on the stump and in debates, hang on to your hats. Biden attacks like a Democrat should. And that's change you can believe in.

"Biden's mouth will get him in trouble."

Perhaps, but regardless, the GOP will manufacture outrage over the most innocuous comment from any VP pick. At least Biden's got a ready-made excuse of being a loose cannon.

"Plagiarism...."

- 2 words, "Keating Five"

"The bankruptcy bill is..."

- If you're complaining about this, you're a Democrat already. Republicans won't use this against Biden. Consider this Biden's mulligan (and as Steve noted, he was actually supporting his home state's industry). Biden has lots of other good karma on economic issues.

"Tell me how Biden substantially differs from Hillary in any major way."

- 1) He doesn't have a fraction of the ready-made oppo research already primed and ready to release against her should she have gotten either spot on the ticket.

2) He's not Hillary.

And Believe it or not, that's not a bad thing. Not belittling Hillary's acumen, but she's not the be-all end-all of American politics.

"Clinton supporters will read this for what it truly is, a slap in the face and sit out the election"

- Please. Anyone not named Hillary would've been taken as a slap in the face by these people.

"This Clinton supporter will be voting for John McCain."

- Then you're really not a Clinton supporter, are you? Hillary lost. Hillary got over it. Would that her "supporters" could show the same class, not to mention intelligence and desire to put their country ahead of their own personal pique.

Good, I guess. Biden won't take any shit and he will no doubt be throwing some! Thank God it's not Billary, what a buzz-shill. I would have liked Sebelius however talk about another swipe at the whining Billary losers. As it looks, McTrollop has no options for VP that I'm aware of that won't completely piss off his Talibangelical base that I'd say to this point the weather vain is pointing Obama\Biden's way. We'll all have to wait and see.. Hammer on the Bush legacy continium and get McTrollop's head to blow up a few times. God (are you really there?), I hope he picks Leiberman or Romney. What a laugh-in!

Orange, bitchez!

Politics isn't roulette. You don't try black because red didn't win last time. -Swan

That's not how you play roulette.

Black has as much chance with every spin as red.

But politics is not a game of chance. We've played a losing game for several years. Obama is changing the game.

Besides any roulette player worth their salt will tell you, 'Always bet on black.'

I think that's good advice for this election.

Obama may have chosen Hillary if she had gracefully dropped out of the race when it became mathematically impossible for her to win.

Instead, she decided to be a pain in his side.

Also, what does it say about someone who spends 10 million more than her campaign took in. This is her own house that she can't budget. It is also the gorilla in the room as to why she should be nowhere around decisions concerning taxpayer's money.

Obama may have chosen Hillary if she had gracefully dropped out of the race when it became mathematically impossible for her to win.

Instead, she decided to be a pain in his side.

Also, what does it say about someone who spends 10 million more than her campaign took in. This is her own house that she can't budget. It is also the gorilla in the room as to why she should be nowhere around decisions concerning taxpayer's money.

You forget, Steve Benen, that all of your previous thoughts on Joe Biden are on your blog, and many of them are not at all complimentary, to say the very least.

Maybe today is a day for being happy and doing the rah rah thing, which is understandable. But if intellectual honesty is something to be valued in journalism, this choice is hardly one I'd think you'd be all that thrilled with. Or relieved about.

Palin, shes only running for VP, but she has more executive experience than Obama, our top of the ticket. At least Biden makes it look like we have experience.