He reminded me of Paris Hilton.

Here's a free line for Biden.

"I have known John McCain for 30 years. He was a good man. I knew John McCain. But, this man who is running for President, he's no John McCain."

He is the best thing that Obama has. He is a single witness to the spaghetti distortions that McCain has gone through in the last 2 years to get where he is right now.

This should be fun to watch.

Yes, Biden reminded me of Paris Hilton too.

Not.

If his "performance" today reminded me of anyone, it would be Ted Kennedy. He did a fine job.

I think President Obama and Vice Presdident Biden did great!

I think the media talking heads are idiots. How many times can they say "But wait - Joe Biden has experience - that's not change is it?"

Experience and change are not opposites - look it up.

Dummies.

All I know is that my nearly 70 year old mother, who was originally an HRC supporter before eventually switching to Obama, called me up very late last night right after she learned it was Biden. She was ecstatic.

Biden lashed out in the way I had hoped he would. He hit McSame hard, without delving into the silly pettiness that represents modern republicanism. I can't wait til McSame tries to play his faded 'judgement in foreign policy' card. He's going to run into a buzzsaw in Joe Biden.

To quote the great hockey announcer Mike Lange: McSame's going to "get beaten like a rented mule". He "won't know whether to cry, or wind his watch."

The seven kitchen table line is what i call punking the other side. That is why people wanted Biden. He can do that better than every other option. Period. He can defend himself and defend Obama and has a better relationship with his fellow Senators than a certain other Senator in the news.

Yes, I noticed "literally" too often as well. But to me it said this guy Biden wrote his own speech, with some adlibs as well. This resulted in a more favorable impression.

Pretty soon everyone will know what most of us here already know. McCain has been skating along on his POW cred as a substitute for actual foriegn policy expertise.

I'm so happy I could spit.

This is one detail among many, but I don't like him referring to only seven kitchen tables. It simply doesn't sound as bad as a double-digit number, and there literally are 12 or 13 kitchen tables-- 12 or 13 houses. From the guy on Kos who wants our convention to feature swinging keychains with John McCain's name on them to Biden today, it seems like too many of our own people are for some reason defaulting to the single-digit counts of McCain's poperties. Not really the best attack-dog he could be.

Biden is exactly what the Obama campaign needed, and it's especially heartening to seem him going right to work.

If you own 13 houses, and you own some of them with your wife (or she owns some of them), it's the truth if people say you have 13 houses, even if you only wholly own a few of them all by yourself. It's really like yeoman Republican propaganda work for any of us to be rounding the number down for them.

But is he a "former POW?" Just kidding. What is his miltary record? I'm sure that he has served because it seems only Republicans have avoided service in the military so "successfully". Since he is a Catholic, what is his position on birth control and abortion? I am asking because I don't know. I have not done the research, so am hoping someone here will respond with that information. Overall, I feel that the Obama/Biden ticket is a winner.
I am committed to Oneness through Justice and transformation
peace,
st john

One of the most hopeful signs was that both Obama and Biden took some shots. Apparently they have rejected John Kerry's "don't say anything bad because the Republicans and pundits will say we are mean" policy. Bush, McCain and the Republicans are not working for the best interests of most Americans. They need to say that every day and point out the many specific illustrations.

I'd start with the bullshit that McCain and the Republicans are "for the troops."

YUCK, GAG...watching either MSNBC or CNN you gotta say that they are so demented in their questioning of the paid for pundits who are there to tell the poor simple-minded American people what is REALLY, REALLY meant by what the candidates said. Love hearing Andrea Mitchell ask a DEM surrogate how they'll deal with the FAST response from REPUGS because Biden said something "bad" about Obama during the primaries...WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE LIVE? Or, never mind, it's in the Beltway and in their own little insulated world...they play right into this crap...so busy are they filling up their 24/7
AND, on CNN not even an "A" team...UGH!!! I know, I need to get back to my Mexican food and my puppy...BYE BYE

From where I've been surfing, it's getting good reviews on the left side of the fence. People seem relieved to see Biden come out swinging. I am too.

I think Biden is a good choice and the Dems need to do some swinging and connecting McCain to our beloved Dear Leader. Obama's campaign has been tepid until today--so there is hope. But why, oh why, was this thrilling announcement made on a Saturday!!!! when no one is watching the news???? Don't the Dems have any sense about how to make an impact?

Frak -

it was made on Saturday so it would dominate tomorrow morning's talk shows, yet be before the convention, and be at a time when there were no major olympic events to compete with.

No one under fifty is watching Friday night anyway.

Saturday evening taping is the norm for several of Sunday gasbagfests.

And the Sunday gasbagfests drive the agenda for the week.

It couldn't have been any earlier, and it couldn't have been a whole lot later.

Biden is pro-choice and is supported by NARAL.

As to the timing of Saturday (thanks to the commenters), unfortunately, only people like us watch the Sunday gasbag shows. :-) The rest of country would sooner watch indoor volleyball between two countries they can't find on a map. Still think this could have been done in a more impactful way. And why was Obama's face obscured behind some music stand when Biden was speaking? And where was the shot with the two families (adorable children in tow) after Biden spoke? Missed opportunities.

Steve Benen: By any reasonable measure, Biden isn't the orator Obama is...

Be that as it may: Best. VP intro speech. Ever.

Quite frankly, Biden kicked the snot out of every republican from Kennebuckport Maine to Coronado California.

Total. Body. Slam.

Give'em Hell Joe!
I suspect that might fast become the new rallying cry of scrappy Scranton-esque Americans everywhere.

Side note to any rupug reading this:

John McCain started the class war with his elitist-celeb-argula bullshit. Joe Biden just picked up the cudgel. Get ready. Because it looks like Joe is going to beat you freaks with until your assholes squirt bright blue blood. Personally? I hope you vomit blue too...

They'll talk about McCain's 8 kitchen tables and not do a damn thing for working class Americans. That's politics for you where the rich rule and run the two major parties.

Dr. Wu, Eugene Debs is dead. Sidney Hillerman is dead. Walter Reuther is dead. They're not coming back.

I'll take lower interest rates on my kid's HELP loans now, and you can have the workers' paradise later.

I'm shallow that way.

I was pleased with the choice and both speeches.

This afternoon's rally held a special place in my heart because I was born in Springfield and lived there til I was 10. I became very aware of politics and Democratic politics in particular, in 1960 (I was 9 years old) and my family worked for Kennedy and we held a very, very raucous election night "bash" at our house.

"They'll talk about McCain's 8 kitchen tables and not do a damn thing for working class Americans. That's politics for you where the rich rule and run the two major parties."

So, what's your point, Dr. Bozo?

That's the problem with you pointless troll morons. You THINK you have a point, but it is just the one on the top of your little pointy head.

I was at the rally. Everyone seemed buzzed about Biden and thought he was a good pick. He brings "experience" some said. Others mentioned that he will "kick ass" (this from an old guy too!) His speech went over well and the crowd was enthusiastic. This was a very diverse crowd with a surprising number of senior citizens, particularly white older voters. Given that it was sweltering, the fact that these older voters waited patiently in line says something and I don't think it was just curiosity. The Obama ground game was in full force also. Volunteers were on every street corner and in the rally asking people to sign up for e-mail updates, volunteering, etc. It was pretty impressive.

Glad the see that the Nader/Hillary dead-enders are still at it. It's nice to see that some things never change.

This is gonna be great... "yeah Im here for change, get away from beltway politics as usual", oh yeah... yobamma's got the smoke and mirrors ready, step right up and pick a card__any card my friend..... wow how can you people sit there and believe that this charleton (obamma) has any credibility with this choice.. tell me ...how does the cool aide taste???.... You folks are more gullable than I ever imagined. Biden for VP???LMAO...
Bubba Said That....

First a tiny bit of Pruppish pedantry. Davis X. Machina -- did I ever say that may be my favorite nick of all time, btw -- It's Sidney Hillman. ("Hillerman" is Tony Hillerman, the great detective story writer whose books are set on Amerind reservations.)

But this was a geat show, and demonstrates why I have been making the predictions I have. We were a lock anyway, but if there were some weaknesses, Biden's covering them.

The key is that McCain has no upside. Like Hillary, once Obama got going, she could only lose voters, and she did. Obama's last chance to 'blow it' came with the VP pick. I never gave Hillary any credence, but Bayh would have hurt. Biden gave him just what he needed, but then, he keeps on making the right choices.

Mccain keeps on playing 'pinata politics' to steal a line from Steve. And people are already getting tired of it, and tired of his POW bit. He doesn't have a GOTV program, now that he's lost the enthusiastic support of the RRers, and even the media is laughing at his absurdities.

Again, he won't get 100 EVs.

Saw Obama and Biden today and they looked FABULOUS together.

I hope Biden keeps his remarks to attacking McCain and pointing out McCain's obvious faults and does not become engaged in a tough man contest on who is more willing to spill blood the fastest in foreign policy discussions. He does not need to be Obama's "Cheney" or be "boisterous" in his foreign policy stands. He gives the appearance of being tough without having to try to prove it. His toughness should just be seen as his confidence. When a big tough guy says he stands for peace it seems more meaningful. He doesn't need to get into a tough guy competition with McCain but should merely laugh at McCain's tough talk with a "yeah, you and whose army" attitude, cheerfully. Biden must act like he's willing to grow to reinforce Obama's good judgment and as an example to be followed by the rest of the establishment insiders. Hopefully, the message of hope and change will continue to be the strongest from the Obama campaign because "experience" should bring the wisdom that we need "change" with better "judgment" than the decisions that got our country into this disaster to begin with.

Somehow I forgot that Cheney was our vice president. Biden has put McCain in as the current VP with Bush.

I know I have heard Bush/McCain for months now, but Biden did something different here, very strange.

"Ladies and Gentleman, my wife Jill who you will meet soon and who is drop dead gorgeous. (Laughter) My wife Jill, who you will meet soon. She also has her doctorate degree which is a problem."

This quote bugged the crap out of me. Sure, otherwise it was a good speech, but how on earth does anyone get away with saying something like that?? Pity I had to go to the feminist blogs to find the scathing commentary on that line I was expecting to find everywhere.

This daugther of Wilkes-Barre (down the road from Scranton) is thrilled. I've been disappointed in my home town and their inability to warm to Barack -- Joe Biden will help. Old folks (about all there is left in NE PA) love him. My mom was thrilled this morning.

As one of those Catholic, working class ethnics that people go on about all the time, I think the best thing that could happen to Joe is to have some bishop deny him communion. Except Donahue, most Catholics don't care what their bishops think about anything . . . . though sitting through their sermons is a blood pressure riser.

Obama/Biden 08

I doubt either man got much sleep last night.

"...my wife Jill ... is drop dead gorgeous. ... She also has her doctorate degree which is a problem."

Get used to it, nicole, the guy is a fucking idiot.

I love "Barack America."

I also love that Biden's not a perfectly precise speaker... they will gain by admitting and making fun of the ticket on that front.

Biden needs to point out that Obama has executed something which has eluded him -- a game-changing presidential campaign, even though Biden had 15 years of solid Senatorial experience in 1988 -- while Obama points out that Biden is only the first of many powerfully strong appointments to his inner circle.

I want to see them emphasize the character of the Obama administration, and its stark differences from both Bush and McCain: Obama brings in a disciplined yet pragmatic team which embraces core principles and yet knows the difference between strategies and tactics, and fights like hell to solve problems. McCain? Poke him hard, continuously, about how and why his administration will deviate from the Bush administration... On torture. Banking/mortgage regulation. Foreign policy. Job creation. Justice Department policies. Social Security privatization. Intelligence gathering. Privacy. Signing statements.

Obama can make the point that he's got the wisdom, the will, the skill, and the judgment to create a fundamental change in the way the executive branch functions.

The Barack America slip of the tongue made me think about *drumroll*

Captain Barack America.

Yes, I know. Corny. But hey, I think this would be a great cartoon.

Good analysis by Steve Benen. I would add:

- Both Obama and Biden are good orators. They have very different styles -- Obama is inspirational but comes across as more formal, whereas Biden shoots more from the hip -- which is why he sometimes says things that get him into trouble. Both are better than McCain, and they complement each other very well.

- We have seen the Democrats lose many elections (since Dukakis) because they underestimated the effect of Republican negative campaigning. Don't let this happen again! Respond to all attacks explicitly and forcefully. Don't make the mistake again to count on the people voting their self-interest. The people can be manipulated, and the Republicans have shown that they know how to do it.

- The networks should work on their camera exposures. Obama's face was much too dark in today's footage, to the point that sometimes his features were not visible. This is a problem anyone who has tried to take party pictures knows about -- but professionals with cameras should know how to deal with it. (Less contrast -- to begin with?)

"Literally" literally worked quite well through the first five times. The last 10? Not so much.

Ditto with "Ladies and Gentlemen." God he needs and editor. I hope they realize that. Not because people and pundits will point it out, but because he has to be more concise to be most effective.

I also love that Biden's not a perfectly precise speaker

Haven't we've tried that once already?

Nice post, Steve, although those of us old enough to read the papers then do remember the terrible car accident that claimed Sen. Biden's wife and daughter, and the family's grief. Still it is essential that we be reminded, again, of how responsible and good Sen. Biden was, how true he remained to family, self, and state, how decent and regular-guy his professionalism, how down to earth. Sen Biden really has been tried and found true in important ways. About the feminist complaint above, from Nicole: first of all, I think it was a joke; second, there is, alas, a grain of truth to it -- and I write as a woman who has a Ph.D. Many people feel challenged or uncomfortable in the presence of smart women (perhaps the writer above has noticed). Sen. Biden is, however loquacious, a seasoned, savvy professional. Mrs. Biden is going to be "vetted" as never before, and he is getting this info out, now, in an unthreatening way, before some bozo on Faux News "discovers" it and accuses of being an "egg head elitist." I am pleased as can be about this pick; Sen. Obama makes good decisions, good judgments, runs a good, tight ship. Wow.

Nice post, Steve, although those of us old enough to read the papers then do remember the terrible car accident that claimed Sen. Biden's wife and daughter, and the family's grief. Still it is essential that we be reminded, again, of how responsible and good Sen. Biden was, how true he remained to family, self, and state, how decent and regular-guy his professionalism, how down to earth. Sen Biden really has been tried and found true in important ways. About the feminist complaint above, from Nicole: first of all, I think it was a joke; second, there is, alas, a grain of truth to it -- and I write as a woman who has a Ph.D. Many people feel challenged or uncomfortable in the presence of smart women (perhaps the writer above has noticed). Sen. Biden is, however loquacious, a seasoned, savvy professional. Mrs. Biden is going to be "vetted" as never before, and he is getting this info out, now, in an unthreatening way, before some bozo on Faux News "discovers" it and accuses of being an "egg head elitist." I am pleased as can be about this pick; Sen. Obama makes good decisions, good judgments, runs a good, tight ship. Wow.

"it tests our faith."

I am so friggin sick and tired of this gawd-damn pandering to the Christian community.

Listen, if I told you I believed that a Martian insect created us and then sent his own son for us to kill so we could be saved from the behavior instilled in us by our creator you would call me a nut case.

The fact that you can't be President in this country without the support of religious wackos and powerful corporations does not reflect well on what little democracy we have left.

I think there is something very important about Joe Biden's personal history that no one will be able to put into words, but hopefully it will seep into the public's mind. It nutralizes John McCain's POW story in a very real world sort of way. Biden's suffering was a great as McCain's. Soldiers aren't the only ones who suffer and feel pain. My mother had a massive stroke and spent her final five years in a horrific state in a nursing home. We spent many hours in that facility and we saw suffering that bothers me to this day.For decades John McCain has been almost diefied for his years spent in that camp. Scratch beneath the surface of everyday life and there is terrible suffering all around us. Suffering that is never recognized or acknowledged. Joe biden is an everyman who's suffering and pain was on par with the "heroes" in my eyes. I think alot of people will see it in a similar fashion.

Listen, if I told you I believed that a Martian insect created us and then sent his own son for us to kill so we could be saved from the behavior instilled in us by our creator you would call me a nut case.

No, except for the Martian part, I would call you your holiness.

Yes, but when John McCain was a prisoner in Vietnam he refused to allow his captors to release him because it would have been a propaganda coup for them How many times have we been told that as it McCain was the one with the power to decide when he would be released.

"...my wife Jill ... is drop dead gorgeous. ... She also has her doctorate degree which is a problem."

Get over yourself.

The quote was about eggheads in general not about putting women down.

Pity the tiny hearts that have to run every sentence thru the same ugly meat grinder. They see reality with such humorless blood-colored glasses. Such joylessness would even deny the right of a husband to joke-brag about the beauty of his wife.

Yuck.

Even Rosie the robot on the Jetson's had more charm...

The quote was about eggheads in general not about putting women down.

A republican talking point, clown.

Any guy who's been married that long, and the first thing he says about his wife is that she's d-d gorgeous, I thought it was fantastic. David Shuster referred to it as "weird"; I'm guessing most of the women watching would disagree.

It's not as if he nominated her to run for Miss Buffalo Chip, for God's sake -- the guy is obviously mad for his wife! I find that pretty refreshing after weeks of media obsession with the sleazy John Edwards case.

I'm guessing if a woman who was married that long called her husband a total hunk, he'd be pretty happy about it too.

Why does such an innocent, heartfelt, off-the-cuff remark have to be dissected as if it were the first line of the Democratic platform?

Davis X. Machina:

Dr. Wu, Eugene Debs is dead. Sidney Hillerman is dead. Walter Reuther is dead. They're not coming back.
I'll take lower interest rates on my kid's HELP loans now, and you can have the workers' paradise later. I'm shallow that way.

That is exactly it. And Biden threw the gauntlet down exactly there. Not: It's the economy stupid. But rather: It's the shrinking middle class stupid.

That's going to be the hinge point in Novemeber. That's the battle ground the Dems must make sacred. The shrinking middle class is the social dilemma of our time. It is time to make it an overarching issue on central display...

I think Barack personally introducing Biden by talking about how his kid died in a car accident is a little off-key.

Maybe I'm being too sensitive, maybe a lot of people don't care nowadays, and maybe it actually helps us (Democrats)-- but whether those are true or not, it still looks like just another part of how crass our society (but especially the mainstream-media imparted portion of our culture) has become.

I think it may be appropriate for the story to be reported sometime around now, so people know who Biden is and where he's coming from-- this is obviously one of the most important, influential events of his life, and Biden could become the most powerful public official in the world-- but I'd prefer that it come out in a non-televised newspaper or magazine interview with a campaign subordinate, instead of by Barack personally mentioning it at the public appearance in which he is announcing that he is taking Biden on. To someone like me, doing it that way looks like touting the fact that Biden lost his kid, although of course that's not what Barack was actually doing.

Just to be clear, I'm not claiming just that I personally feel Barack's remark about Biden's deceased kid was a little indecent, but also that people might be turned off by it.

I agree fully, eparker@8.03p!

[...] that's not a worry John McCain will have to worry about.... He'll have to figure out which of the seven kitchen tables to sit at." -- Joe Biden

Oh, please... As if McCain knew his way to the kitchen in *any* of his umpteen properties. That's what staff is for. Just shows you how out of touch with true elite Biden is.

Nicole, way up @ 18:31 (Benen, get the posts numbered, for goodness sake!),

Not sure what your objection is. That Biden thinks his wife is drop-dead gorgeous? Good for him, at least as long as he doesn't offer her for the Miss Bull-chip contest. That her doctorate is a problem? It sure as heck *is* a problem; he's gonna be surrounded by those damned arugula eaters every time the families get together.

Love "Barack America"; if that was a slip of the tongue, I'm looking forward to more slips like that.

Since I'm still ticked off with the format here and not likely to post more than once a day, I 'd like to respond to "the media loves him" comment on an earlier thread.

Yes, it looks like it, *now*. But the fact that David "Babbling" Brooks was hoping for Biden, in yesterday's NYT has me worried. To begin with, his praise seemed a tad false... You mention "honesty" and "plagiarism" just one paragraph apart? You excuse his verborrhea through mentioning he used to stutter as a child (though it, probably, *does* excuse his poor school performance)? You "illustrate" loyalty by saying the his wife and child died? What's that have to do with loyalty?

And there's another worry. The Corporate Media (including Babbling Brooks)loved Obama, too. Right up until Obama became the presumptive nominee. At which point, they reverted to salivating over their first love: McPOW. So, my song is "will you still love me... tomorrow?"

PS. Nice to know that Obama is not only ready to *answer* a 3AM phone call, but is capable of making some of those himself, keeping *others* on their toes :)

Brick Oven Bill's comments are being reviewed, and any that are determined to possibly give him McPoints for trolling liberal sites (WaMo was on McCain's list of recommended blogs) to earn him a crappy t-shirt made in China are being deleted. -Mod]

Many people feel challenged or uncomfortable in the presence of smart women...

SF, that's so very true. Smart and beautiful is often a curse. Smart women often "dumb down" just to fit in (at least, in America). Sadder still, a beautiful woman will most often receive more notice than the plain one with the big mind.

(Not that I would know this from any personal experience)

I did hear somewhere this week that Joe takes Amtrak to DC instead of being driven there. Really cool.

Found this great bio of Barack in the Baltimore Sun.

And Newsweek explains Barack's relation to Rezko. Once and for all, I hope!

Hey Steve, I like this place. BTW: in your columns when you add the "continue reading" link, it allows us to read down the comments on the same page (like the CBR format) without popping up in a separate window. And when you do that, it's easier to reload the comments section.

MBNA whore just lends the stamp of "bought and paid for" to the Obama campaign.

Now there isn't anyone to vote for. Guess I'll stay home.

oh and anyone who thinks McCain eats at a kitchen table is as delusional as he is

It seems odd that there is this sudden profusion of people on this blog criticizing Biden from the left and professing that they want to have nothing to do with the Democratic party this fall. The Democrats I hang around with personally probably are a little disconcerted about a few of the stances taken by Biden and Obama, but no Democrat or liberal I know of is seriously considering sitting this election out.

Now there isn't anyone to vote for. Guess I'll stay home. -- getaclue at 8:33 PM

Respectfully... take your own advice and "get a clue".

Pity I had to go to the feminist blogs to find the scathing commentary on that line I was expecting to find everywhere. -Nicole

I think you mean manufactured controversy.

No, he certainly couldn't have meant the perception of educated people as elites. It must be part of the Obama campaign's coordinated effort to malign women. Yeah, sure. Get over yourself.

Biden is a fine choice and his working class background, his knowledge of foreign affairs and his humor tempering the attack lines he uses will be, I believe, invaluable in states where a number of white blue collar voters have not yet made up their minds. How about a line about people raising their hands who in the past 7 years have been laid off from a well-paying job, then when seeking employment have been offered a $10.00 an hour job with no benefits. This has happened over and over again in America as the upper one percent continues to reap great bounty, and the lower half of the income strata continues to lose ground economically...

Anyone know what's causing the multiple comments?
Anyone know what's causing the multiple comments?

Arthur: It seems to me that a lot of familiar right-wingers are pretending to be 'disappointed left-wingers' because they know that so many of us came over with Steve and may not recognize them.

As for the story about the Biden tragedy -- which I had known but was glad to have been reminded of, didn't anyone listen closely enough to hear the point, which was that Biden commuted home every night so he could be involved with raising his sons. It wasn't a 'sympathy ploy' it was a definition of the sort of character the man showed, and tied in with his stress on real family values.

Joy, thanks for the first-hand report. Sounds exciting. It looked like there was a broad cross section of people there.

I'm glad to see that Biden is going after McCain, as I had mentioned earlier today. Seven kitchen tables, bwahahaha.

Agree with eparker (I believe it was) that most middle-aged women would love to be introduced as d-d gorgeous by their husbands. And yes, some men are threatened by brainy women. Unfortunately.

I was on the treadmill at the gym when Obama was giving his speech. The TV in front of me was on CNN but the screen was of a bunch of other stuff, not the speech. But the closed captioning was Obama's speech. Very cool, but I wonder if CNN promoted that. I liked that Obama introduced Biden to those who don't know his story.

I watched the speech on CSPAN and plan to watch the convention on CSPAN as well. I absolutely cannot bear listening to the idiots, ahem, best political team on TV, on CNN. Or any other network. Gag. Sorry, I don't need anyone telling me what I just heard or what I should think about it. I do have a brain.

It is going to be VERY entertaining to watch Joe Biden take the ReThuglican machine apart piece by stupid piece.

Give no quarter & take no prisoners. Fix bayonets and move out !

"Every once in a while, you've got to do something hard, do something you're not comfortable with. A person needs a gut check." - Corporal Chad Ritchie, U.S.M.C.

Anyone know what's causing the multiple comments? -beep52

Reloading after hitting submit before the comment is accepted. Sometimes, I've noticed that it takes a good 10-15 seconds to send the comment, so some people must be getting impatient.

Posting Directions:

Once you hit POST, your comment is posted; that's it, you're done.

However, the comment window doesn't show any change for a while.

Close it, open up a new one, and you'll see your comment.

Whatever you do, don't hit POST more than once.

I'm sitting in the mid-west wanting to do backflips over this choice. I'm here typing with my dogs at my feet and also my neighbor's dog, who was given to me on the eve of the sherriff's foreclosure sale. I'm fond of that dog, but he has a real daddy who wants him back but has no home for him. I've worked my whole life. So has my neighbor. We shouldn't have to be this afraid about the future. Obama and Biden understand us. McCain thinks we should have married better.

sab, don't overdo it with the backflips. The NY Times has a good bacgrounder on Biden today (both personal history and Senate record) which includes this:

Mr. Biden became an early supporter of a controversial bankruptcy law that was championed by the company [MBNA] and other credit card issuers and finally passed in 2005, making it more difficult for consumers to erase their debts. Mr. Obama, who voted against the measure, recently skewered the presumptive Republican nominee, Senator John McCain, for backing the bill, saying it allowed “banks and credit card companies to tilt the playing field in their favor, at the expense of hard-working Americans.”

A report last year by Credit Suisse, the investment bank, concluded the law had had a “profound impact” on the country’s subprime mortgage crisis, leading directly to a rise in foreclosures.

Obama fired a pre-emptive shot about liking the idea of a VP who doesn't always agree with him, but still, the Republicans will have a lot of material to work with here.

As for the story about the Biden tragedy -- which I had known but was glad to have been reminded of, didn't anyone listen closely enough to hear the point,[...] -- Prup, @21:39

It is obvious you either don't know, or don't remember Swan; getting the point isn't his forte :)

I, for one, was glad to hear the story *and* the point of retelling it. I knew about Biden's loss, but not about the grueling, daily, 3hr commute to spend time with his sons when they needed him the most. For me, that says *volumes* about the man's character (and his family values, too). "Interestingly", while David Babbling Brooks mentioned the deaths, he didn't think the commute was worth notice...

Lemon

I like Biden's longish hair.

and I just coughed up beer. Just got a text message saying John McCain has selected his VP. My friends, it will be John Scherer, founder and client of Video Professor.

Overuse of "literally" beats the heck out of overuse of "my friends."

I swear, by the end of this election cycle John McCain is gonna try and sell me a rug.

At best, Biden's comment about his wife's PhD was awkward. Precisely because too many men are threatened by smart women (unfortunately) and value good looks far more, his comment seemed to re-enforce that sexist idea rather than be a criticism of it. If his goal was to offer a wry comment on the perception of academics as elites, then it came out wrong and he should improve that line in his next stump speech.

Pointing that out didn't involve an overzealous meat grinder or a vacuum sucking all the joy out of life. Nor was it meant as evidence of Obama's grande plan to malign women everywhere.

In my mind at least, it's an obvious low-point in an otherwise good first outing as v.p.

What nicole said.

At the considerable risk of getting another personal and insulting response from doubtful, I want to emphasize again why not getting Hillary Clinton on the ticket was a mistake.

Both of these guys are in the Senate. Senators know it's all about who has the votes. Someone else said it earlier - Clinton has 18 million votes, Biden, not so much.

JFK swallowed hard and picked LBJ for the ticket (LBJ had run a good primary race with him and finished second), because he knew it was going to be a close election and LBJ had the votes - and could get out the votes. It's that simple. The razor-thin victory they forged together was due to this move. JFK and LBJ way hated each other more than Obama and Clinton's relatively mild distaste.

If anyone thinks that McCain - as odious as the prospect is to the rest of us here - isn't going to hang close until November - well, IMO I think you're mistaken.

Too late now, I know. I can get used to working for electing a BO-Joe ticket. But I do get nervous (doubtful?) when I notice that Obama's been slipping at the polls with older women voters (a very dependable voting bloc - students and minorities, not so much). Clinton would have solved the problem.

Problem remains.

BO-Joe in 08!

That's my opinion - and it's not any evidence that I think Obama hates women or that I'm another dead-ender for Hillary with a hidden agenda who can't get over it. I just think getting her on the ticket would have been a smarter, Democratic-voter-getting move.

You've heard of gridlock in Congress.

How about gridlock in the White House?

That's what HRC as VP would get you: dissent, distraction, and dysfunction.

How anyone can read all her campaign's internal records and think she brings anything at all to the table in terms of governing ability is beyond me.

Would it be worth increasing Obama's odds of victory a few percent to get that as a result?

For myself, the answer is no.

Actually, yes - I DID know that sad story about Biden's early tragedy. The surprising part is where I learned it: in an unusually sensitive column by David Brooks, in today's New York Times.

Many of you know David Brooks as a well-educated but nonetheless kook of a conservative mouthpiece for Republican talking points. However, in this piece, Brooks offers his personal hope that Obama will select Biden as his running mate, and purports not to know the decision yet - which might well have been true at the time he wrote it.

This is where Konservative Kook David Brooks would normally chime in with a list of detrimental reasons for his hopes: Joe Biden would be easiest to beat, he's an alcoholic (I totally made that up, by way of an example), he's Jeremiah Wright's half-brother (I totally made that up, too) and so on. Surprisingly, the piece came off as good advice for Obama, and was a sensitive portrayal of Biden's strengths.

I doubt David Brooks would be all that happy to see an Obama presidency, and I'm sure he'd be happily wagging his rudimentary tail at the station when the McCain gravy train came through, but it's encouraging to see a few conservatives who have not abrogated the power of reason. Nice piece, Mr. Brooks.

RL, I was a big Clinton supporter, I caucused for her, but in the end I think she would have been a poor VP choice for Obama.

Let me be more accurate about that. She would have been a great VP choice had she divorced Bill between the end of the primaries and today.

But it is pretty hard to blame Obama for not wanting a former President in his WH. It would never truly be his. Adding Hillary may have helped Obama get there, but it wouldn't have made for good governing - the Clintons are too reckless (lets face it, she'd be the one picking a VP if she had run a remotely competent campaign. she didn't), and any chance she had Bill pretty well disposed of when just a couple of weeks ago he still refused to say Obama was qualified to be President.

As a long-time fan of both Bill and Hillary it pains me to say this: Hillary for VP could have been a possibility -- she and Bill have no one to blame but themselves for making that impossible.

Good points by zeitgeist.

Mark - as it happens, Biden doesn't drink.

The point of the car accident story was to show how people react differently in true crises. Biden responded to an unthinkable tragedy by drawing his family closer to him, going out of his way to be sure his kids were raised right...with him there every night. He kept his promises--to the constituents who had just elected him, to Mike Mansfield who asked him to stay on for six months, to his children.

That's in sharp contrast to, say, John McCain, who used his POW tragedy as an excuse to act like a selfish piece of dog doody and abandon his kids and wife to pursue a second youth he thought he was owed.

lampwick said:

"How anyone can read all her campaign's internal records and think she brings anything at all to the table in terms of governing ability is beyond me."

Just can't get out of the habit of gratuitous slams at Clinton and her supporters can you? Now THAT'S the way to win an election and fire up Clinton's former supporters - you know, many of the people you'll see at local party headquarters.

Did you put her and Bill behind John Edwards in your internal "integrity rating" as well? If so, that should also be beyond you at this point.

In fact, there are probably a lot of things that are beyond you - like how me and 18 million other stupid fu(ks could be so blind as to think she would be the better candidate.

Get over it. You won.

I'm Rielle Lovechild, and I endorse the above post.

LOL

In the spirit of the ol' end-of-the-day open thread, an interesting read from Friday if anyone missed it...

Russia's oil boom may be running on empty
By Tom Lasseter | McClatchy Newspapers

MOSCOW The Russian oil boom, which has produced a gusher of cash, political power and an opulent elite and has helped fuel the country's renewed assertiveness in Georgia and elsewhere is on shakier ground than officials in Moscow would like to admit.

Most of the oil produced after the country's 1998 financial collapse has come from drilling and re-drilling old Soviet oil fields with more advanced equipment squeezing more black gold out of the same ground and efforts to develop new fields have been slow or non-existent.

"Barack America" LOL. Biden said something funny already.

I disagree very much with Zeitgeist's unsubstantiated claims at 11:55 PM that Hillary should divorce Bill and that it's Bill and Hill's fault that she didn't get picked by Barack.

Has anybody ever heard that Bill makes Hillary unpopular and that people want her to divorce him? I sure haven't. Does anybody claim that divorcing him would somehow bring everyone who doesn't like her into her camp? Sounds like a ridiculous claim to me.

Rather, divorcing Bill just seems like it would say "Bill's adultery was such a horrible crime that even the liberals have totally rejected him"- in other words, it would be the manifestation of some kind of fascist Republican talking point. It wouldn't vindicate Hillary or save her popularity at all. The idea that Bill has nothing to do with why people like Hillary or that people would prefer her if she got rid of him is novel.

Also, I don't know how he can say that it's Bill and Hill's fault that she didn't get picked y Barack. Absolutely all that can be said against Hillary is that she played a little rough when she campaigned-- and that's hardly an unprecedented course of action for an American politician.

18 million other stupid fucks, (less a few hundred thousand), have moved on.

I was a Hillary delegate in Washington State, and completely and wholly embrace the Obama/Biden ticket. I sincerely doubt that we 18 million as a total are stuck in some kind of electoral putgatory.

It's either Obama/Biden or a repeat of the last eight years. there is no other intelligent choice to make than to go with Obama/Biden.

McCain and (Mittens???) is NOT in my best interest, nor do I think that any other truly thinking democratic woman would make that decision. Not even out of spite.

If you choose McCain out of spite, then your feminist bona fides are, in my view, not legitimate.

Putgatory should be purgatory. I even previewed. And the spellcheck did not underline. I've been betrayed I tell you!! Betrayed!!

Here is a Freudian slip theory on where "Barack America" came from:

Bank of America took over MBNA (the credit card company that Biden has been accused of being too close to). Sort of the way Barack brought Biden into his fold.

zeit...

Were Clinton on the ticket, I'd likely stay home... She may turn out the partisan Dems, but there are many so turned off by the Clintons that she'd drive them away. I think Clinton's 18 million votes are more of a product of here not being black than her having great appeal... Her "hawkishness" coupled with her executive incompetence as demonstrated by her inept campaign are all would drag her down... And don't forget- she hasn't been through the GOP attack machine since Bill made his 100 million...

I honestly don't see Clinton as a realistic option.

Op-Ed Columnist Too Much of a Bad Thing
That's what news.google says. more a that!

By MAUREEN DOWD My mom did not approve of men who cheated on their wives. She called them “long-tailed rats.” During the 2000 race, she listened to news reports about John McCain confessing to dalliances that caused his first marriage to fall apart ...

I'm so upset that google news has sh(tcan'd such a fine redhed. she was asking for it. NexT!

swan: re Hillary's not divorcing Bill... for one example, my sis, who is a registered Repub but is really an independent said to me last year "The Democrats had better nominate someone other than Hillary because I won't vote for her." One of her reasons was that she doesn't respect Hillary's staying married to Bill. ::shrug:: Not my way of thinking, but some women do think that way.

I have hope that my sis will vote for Obama, but I haven't asked her. We don't talk politics much in my family - too much disagreement. Ack.

Swannie, you're still wearing those blinders, aren't you? I thought you were one of those---whaddaya call 'em---Amish Buggy horses there for a minute. Do we really need to unpack the comment you made regarding the Hill-n-Bill show again? Apparently, yes.

A whole lot of people have been saying that ever since she started "testing the waters"---which was before her re-election to the Senate. Just because you "don't want to hear it" doesn't mean that it wasn't said.

People wanted her to divorce him?

The mind reels at your selective hearing, child. People have wanted her to divorce him since that stained-blue-dress thingie came out. The broadcast signals about that have certainly reached beyond the fringes of our solar system by now. Put the Yoda doll and the Death Star squeaky-toy away now---you're beginning to sound like one of those Bushylvanian history revisionists.

Does anyone claim that divorcing him would somehow bring everyone who doesn't like her into her camp?

Here. Let me fix your "artistically-fictional rendering of factuality" so it's a bit more honest, 'kay? Divorcing him would have brought a great big bunch of people who don't like HIM into her camp!

There. See how easy that was? And look---the world is still turning on its axis, the lights are still on, and there's no sign of a thermonuclear mushroom cloud at your kitchen table----even if you have 7 of them.

Oh, and by the way---denying reality by labeling it " the manifestation of some kind of fascist Republican talking point" just happens to be a fascist Republican talking point. You're starting to sound rather Zell Miller-ish, little one....

Sounds like there are also plenty of HATE HILLARY folks out there that would desert or stay home if she had been chosen as there are those "sore losers" who want to take their ball and go home because she isn't...ALL are missing the point and their little hissy fits are unworthy of both candidates. I wanted Hillary too as Prez and/or VP...but I KNOW well enough that this country cannot have any more REPUG rule at this critical time...Still, if the polls don't go off the charts for Obama/Biden our media will be wondering ad nauseum if he should have selected Hillary...MOVE ON for GOD'S SAKE!!! I'm trying to...

oh swannie, i see one thing that hasn't changed is your amazing ability to miss the point.

i wasnt saying anything about her sticking with him re Monica.

my point was that having two Presidents in one WH is almost certainly a non-starter. and he made it much, much worse by refusing to heartily endorse Obama's readiness just a few weeks ago.

i could not possibly care less about Monica and the impact of same on their marriage. i was not saying she should divorce him, you simple minded twit, i was just noting that his presence likely made picking her impossible.

of course i'm sure you have some reason why Obama should just ignore the Bill's recent slight about his readiness to be President. . . it will take you 5 posts to explain it, so you'd better get started!

Yeesh, nicole and purported Hillary deadenders give feminism a bad name.

A man who is ashamed of his wife's Ph.D would not talk about in such a public platform. A man who enthusiastically praises his wife's beauty after 30 years of marriage is a hell a lot better than one who calls his wife a pancake makeup wearing c&$t.

What Biden REALLY brings is yet more reason to vote Green!

Establishmentarian, old politics, pro war, anti-middle class bankruptcy (with the gall to talk about the middle class yesterday), pro-Georgia in NATO or leaning that way, etc. etc.

Won't help in states besides PA, not likely attractive to diehard Hillaryites, and NOT attractive to ppl like me.

Go, Cynthia!

(And, psuedoliberal Dem blogs are all on the clock now to see how quickly and thoroughly they rally the wagons behind the alleged brilliance of this pick.)

And, isn't the "good on middle class ... except for bankruptcy" a pretty big caveat? Those other bills, except the housing bill and amendments, were all minor.

And, both parties were asleep at the switch while coasting on the economic benefits of the housing bubble.

Yes, Paycho-Cynthia - you go girl! You go far, far away, and take this contrarian asshole with you!

OK, let's see. One man heroically raises a family as a widowed dad after losing his wife just moments before being sworn in as Senator. The other dumps his wife in order to marry a multi-millionairess. Guess which one conservatives prefer for his family values?