There are septuagenarians and there are septuagenarians. We can't forget that John has had a hard life. His body was abused for 5 years while he was a POW. He has survived cancer.

One of the questions arising from his house gaffe is the issue of mental ability. People are seriously beginning to wonder if he isn't showing the early signs of senility.

I won't pretend to know what others are thinking, but I can't help but imagine some are thinking the same thing I am: what would it matter to a 72-year-old if he starts a war that will drag on for 20 years, if he implements policies that cripple the nation economically for a generation, etc etc? His likelihood of living long enough to taste the fruit of his bad decisions is very low...and in his case, even if he did live long enough to witness the fallout, he's insulated by that $100 million.

Ideally, you want someone who has a personal future making the decisions, since they will be around to live with the consequences of those decisions. An old guy who is so wealthy that he can rely on inheritance softening the blow for his kids and grandkids even after he's gone...he lacks incentive to consider the fallout of his actions on the rest of us. It's not as if he'll be around 30 years from now to see all the chickens come home to roost.

I fully expect the McCain campaign to sue the American electorate sometime after November 4, seeking to overturn the election because we dared the audacity of illegally discriminating against him on the basis of his age (all forms of discrimination are considered the private property of the Right). After all, this is John McCain's America---and he can't allow people of privilege like himself to be deprived over a little thing like the right to choose, now can he? It's just too Roe-v-Wade-ish to imagine, if you're one of those Republican whatevers....

"It's not as if he'll be around 30 years from now to see all the chickens come home to roost."

that didn't stop george bush from fucking up this country did it?

Polls are always fun. Here's some more questions to ask voters. Would your vote change if Obama were white? What if Obama were 72? What if McCain were black? What if McCain were 45?

As 8:52 points out there are septuagenarians and there are septuagenarians. McCain has left a continuous trail of gaffes, high frequency flip-flops and mistakes behind in his speeches. The press seems to ignore these signs of decrepitude, but it is clear that McCain does not have the intellectual ability to do more than shmooze along as a "good old boy". With emphasis on the old.

McCain's age is on the horizon for me. I have many friends who remain capable at this age, but more who have tried to stay in the saddle when it was long past time to find less demanding avocations. McCain belongs to the latter group.

Septuagenarian? From the planet Septuagene? I knew there was something fishy about that smile and all the eye-blinking.

There needs to be a coordinated whisper campaign to capitalize on this. "McCain is ALREADY suffering from [insert age related problem]" could really make the difference.

This assumes Dems do a good job properly destroying his VP pick.

We have to keep in mind, your ideas don't mean shit unless you're elected.

"87% said they were comfortable with an African-American president... Moreover, while 11% conceded they were uncomfortable with an African-American president..."

Are you really taking these figures at face value? Of course an overwhelming majority of Americans will say the have no problem electing a black man. How many Americans are willing to admit they have "racist tendancies," even in a nameless, faceless poll? Clearly, It's much, much easier to admit unease over age vs. race.

just bill @ 9:10 - Bush was what, 16 or 18 years younger than McCain is now when he was elected?

He's 62 now. Chances are fairly good that he'll make it to 82, thanks to his government-provided healthcare - you know, the kind that works for him but would suck for the rest of us, which is why we can't have it. That's assuming that his liver doesn't give out.

I think a significant portion of that 45% is the elderly. My grandmother - a nonagenarian Republican - is very uncomfortable with McCain's age. Likewise, she says, are many of the people at the community where she lives. These are people in their 70s through 90s, almost all Republican voters (but not the "base") and all well-off.

I think that a lot of older people recognize the inherent limitations of age, either in themselves in those around them.

There was an article by Phil Butler on Military.com titled "Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain"

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

You may have seen it. This guy went to school with JM at the acadamy and was also shot down over NVN and was held with JM in Hanoi.

He made this statement int he article:

"Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years."

A good point indeed. Yes, this makes a real good point of his age.

I think the devil is in the details and his VP needs to be looked at for who he is because the chances are very good that if elected, this guy will be the one to watch..

There needs to be a coordinated whisper campaign to capitalize on this. "McCain is ALREADY suffering from [insert age related problem]" could really make the difference.

I'd like a bumpersticker with McCain's face and "You damn kids GET OFFA MY LAWN!!!" on it.

What, is that too subtle?

Suggestion:

John McCain's Birthday is coming up: he'll be 72 this Friday! I think ALL Democrats should make a LOUD effort to celebrate it. With cake! Noisemakers! And music playing on the Victrola!

McCain's age may well nuetralize the racist tendencies Obama faces. It's not so much tha McCain is 72, it's that he just seems old. The blank stares and faltering answers when asked unexpected questions underline this at every turn, even if it goes unsaid.

This is part of the reason McCain's housing crisis is hurting him. Aside from letting the air out of his elitist attack, he came across as old and confused over something the vast majority of us could answer without blinking.

I can only think of a single instance in the campaign where McCain has come across as alert and prepared - The Saddleback 'debate'. And here it seemed pretty obvious that gramps had advance word of the questions. Hell! He answered a 3 part question before it was even asked!

When he's had to think on his feet, McCain's been consistantly addled and dottering. The more the public sees this, the more it will weigh on their decision come November.

I'm in my twenties and I know I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of a 70 something year old as the leader of the free world. It bothers me that his staff won't allow him to talk on the phone because his ideas get shaped by the last person he was talking to. It bothers me that he takes Ambien CR so he can sleep, have you heard of some of the effects of that?

Time and again we've been told that older voters are the most likely to turn out at the polls. I have a group of older friends whom I usually see once a week for lunch. Their ages range from the low seventies to the low nineties. It's not a politically conservative group, so that must skew their reaction to a degree, but they're unanimously horrified at the idea of shouldering the burden of the presidency in one's seventies. And these are people in relatively good health who still qualify for driver's licenses (even the nonagenarian has one). Maybe my friends are too liberal to give John McCain an even break, but it's also possible that senior citizens will vote their experience: It's too much for me, so it's too much for McCain.

I'll be interested to see how the senior vote breaks down in November.

Joe Biden is 65. He sprinted to that stage yesterday and showed a vitality of a man much younger. John McCain is not just 72. He's a very old 72. He seems to be crumbling by the day. Mentally, physically, he seems unsuited for the Presidency. Biden will not merely attack, he will highlight McCain's frailty.

JRS: Are you really taking these figures at face value?

Well, no. The way you tell is, you actually read the post and discover that Steve's already made the point on which you think you're gotcha-ing him.

"I continue to think this is something of a sleeper issue in this campaign."

Could be. We'll know, if McCain nods off during a debate.

Last night on Hardball, Chris Matthews wondered if the criticism of McCain's "houses" comment had as much or more to do with age as economic class. He seemed offended by the dig at age, as if that topic should not be an issue. I wondered why. Is it the fear of ageism? There are a lot of unfair stereotypes regarding age and there are laws prohibiting age discrimination. I like the line that it's not McCain's age, it's the age of his ideas.

It's utterly bizarre. We see cover stories asking whether America is ready for a black President, but NONE about whether America is ready for a geriatric president. This is an EXTREMELY newsworthy angle--the aging of America is as unprecedented as the opening of full opportunities of citizenship to Americans of non-white descent.

In human history, people have never lived so long so well, and this has massive social repercussions. There's tons of angles of interest in how white-collar workers age vs. blue-collar workers, men vs. women. It's frankly fascinating to speculate as to the social impacts of this.

And yet...there's ZERO interest in it from the media, in spite of the fact that it's a hugely newsworthy story, and Americans in poll after poll after poll say they are extremely worried about a 72 year old as President.

I think one has to be very careful with this; it's not that McCain's *age* itself is the concern. It's his questionable mental condition at his present age that is the issue. There is a difference.

The problem is McCain's mental state and unfitness to be the chief executive. If a man of 35 had McCain's mental state (cough Bush cough), he would still make a horrible president.

McCain: Just like Dubya, except shorter, sicker, and more demented.

I like the line that it's not McCain's age, it's the age of his ideas.

Ooooh, I like that line too! I had not heard it before. His ideas are even older than he is - they date from the McKinley administration!

Here's a funny video of what John McCain's first day as President will be like, should he win:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQhXavsMlQc

wa

Some interesting stuff elsewhere in the poll, too:

Obama leads McCain among Registered and Likely Voters by 49-43 and 49-45, respectively.

More good news: he loses less ground than McCain does when spoiler wackjob candidates are added! Among Registered Voters, it becomes 47-40 for Obama, with Barr and Nader at 4% each and among Likely Voters, it's 48-42 Obama, with Barr and Nader at 3% each.

Speaking of wackjobs, how about the 13% who "strongly approve" of Bush?

Frustratingly, McCain still wins on every "who(m) do you trust more" issue concerning terrorism, Iraq, international relations, etc. Jeez. On the upside, a whopping 39% cite the economy as the election's most important issue.

Check out the Rogue Columnist's Why the McCain house gaffe matters. After listing some of McCain's slips and goofs Jon Talton asks:

What's going on? Neither obvious answer is comforting. He's either going senile as he nears 72, or he's lying and unprepared on critical issues without realizing how easily this can be caught in a YouTube era. (Whether the duhs and ignos -- those 'undecided voters' and angry Clintonites -- will care, is another, depressing matter). Either one of these answers should disqualify him for the White House, particularly because so many of his misstatements, confusions and subsequent lies come about issues where he claims superior experience and judgment.

Say hello to a two new demographic groups: the duhs and the ignos. Nicely coined! This looks like a blogger worth keeping an eye on...

I think the age difference will be striking during the debates--not just physically but mentally. I have a lot of confidence in Obama's team and I'm sure they are prepared to get the age issue into the mainstream talking points in some way. I firmly believe the debates will kill McCain. I can hardly wait!!!

That's why Obama/Biden should keep hammering away at McCain's goofs. That's also why Obama should take up McCain's offer to increasing the number of debates. If Obama doesn't clean McCain's clock I'll eat my cat.

I think, as successful as the Obama campaign has been at implying, as a sidebar, that McCain's confusion about his houses is age-related ("he doesn't even remember any more"), it still resonates more basically as an economic issue: he's filthy rich, out of touch, and doesn't care about average working Americans. And, oh, yeah, by the way, he's old and forgetful!

As others have pointed out, there's old and there's old. My grandfather sharper at 93 than McCain is now. And I'm guessing Biden will still be sharp (and not sharp for an old guy -- actually sharp!) at the end of Obama's second term.

Obama shouldn't be hammering McCain -- Biden (who's 65 and white-haired) and his surrogates should be. And Obama will have to tread a very fine line at the debates: beat McCain like a drum on substance, but don't come across as a bully, and don't come across as a condescending young know-it-all either. Remember how the media hammered Gore when he trounced Bush in the debates but couldn't help but look exasperated by him (the eye-rolling)? Suddenly the storyline became that Bush had won. McCain will benefit from those same lowered expectations/sympathy. If he doesn't actually drool his Metamucil all over his tie, he'll be ahead from the get-go.

No one is more alert to the signs of cognitive impairment as the elderly, themselves. After all, they are watching for it in their friends and in themselves. They are insulted by the assumption that all people over 70 or 80 are suffering from dementia, but they know that many people their age do, and they know that it is not like cancer from which can recover, or an injury that can heal. Bottom line: if folks see cognitive loss in McCain, his support among that age group will collapse, which given the nature of McCain's support will be fatal to his candidacy.
But you can't make this stick by sly suggestions in ads -- they will see it and be insulted. They have to see it with their own eyes. That is why the debates are so crucial.

I'll be interested to see how the senior vote breaks down in November.

These are the people old enough to have lived in a Jim Crow world, old enough to remember, at least a little, the days of casual and institutional racism, old enough to remember when the middle class lived in cities before the exodus to the suburbs.

Even with the best will in the world, that, as the clich´ goes, has to leave a mark.

I'm thinking of my mom -- 80 years old, a city girl, lifelong union member, blacklisted out of her dream job in the 50's for the tamest of leftie activity. Taught me the Internationale on a long car ride in '65. She went to Post Office Square in Boston to boo Nixon "before he was even a Senator", as she reminds the grandkids ad nauseam.

She's 'not sure about Obama'. She'll never vote for McCain -- the only Republican she ever voted for was Frank Hatch for governor, instead of the odious Reagan 'Democrat' Ed King. But she might just bullet-ballot.

I'm dead-set against McCain because I think that nearly all of his ideas are bad, so maybe I'm concern-trolling about his age, but:

It's not so much his mental acuity that concerns me. His mental processes probably were just as mule-headed 20 years ago as they are now. Rather, it's his mental stamina that is worrisome. Lots of 90-year-olds are perfectly lucid, but they aren't expected to make high-pressure, high-stakes decisions on a daily basis. McCain would probably say, after Bush, that he'll just "go with his gut", but that's just a euphemism for not giving matters the deliberation they warrant.

Here's some more questions to ask voters. Would your vote change if Obama were white? What if Obama were 72? What if McCain were black? What if McCain were 45?

No, no, no and no.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the complete lack of right wing nut job political ideology."

It's not the age. It's the spew.

If its true that McCain is going to try and steal some thunder next Friday with a VP announcement on his birthday, then I hope that the Obama Camp, DNC, MoveOn, etc has lots of ads wishing McCain a very happy 72nd birthday. Can one argue that you're playing the "age card" by wishing someone happy birthday??

McCain's age and mental (in)capacity are definitely subjects for surrogates - and best handled by clips of McCain verbally stumbling and contradicting himself.

Obama's wisest tack is to treat McCain respectfully, but with frequent comments along the lines of, "I don't see how you can square what you say with reality."

Second the motion(s) on duhs and ignos. Reminds me of Pauline Kael writing about the "stupido" film audience (for Stallone's Rambo movies, if I recall correctly).

So many GREAT comments I don't know where to start. First, the 'military.com' article is -- along with the put-down of McCain by the Washington editor of MARKET WATCH -- one that we should be printing off and handing to our friends who are considering voting for McCain. (Not e-mailing it, I think people don't pay much attention to political emails, but putting hard copies in their hands for them to read and refer to makes more sense.)

Also, the key is not "McCain's age" but the way he shows it. Plenty of 'senior citizens' are still in great shape physically and mentally -- my 85 year old mother-in-law went to her doctor because she was worried because she was a little winded and had to sit out the occasional square dance -- her hobby for years. (On the other hand, I used to enjoy one or two mile walks for fun. Now if I make two shopping trips of three blocks each, reach for the pain bottle.)

On another topic that was reffered to, McCain's support among the elderly, I wish someone would do a solid post on polling that would deal with the following points:

People don't just fit in one group. If a poll shows Candidate X has support among the elderly and among white Evangelicals, part of this is because there are a lot of people who are both, so their votes show up in both columns. It is hard to tell which of the hundreds of categories influences their vote more.

I would, for example, give a vote for Obama in the 'white,' 'senior citizen,' 'atheist,' 'cat owning,' 'bisexual,' and 'Mets fan,' categories, but a pollster would have -- in most cases -- little way of knowing which were relevant. (And sometimes the seemingly trivial ones do matter, at least a little. I DID give Giuliani a little more respect because he was openly a Yankee fan instead of trying to 'be political' and root equally for both NY teams -- and a certain Senator's discovery she was a fan of NY teams once she moved here, and the way she did it cut a point off my admiration for her. Similarly, knowing Bill Clinton had a cat and read Sara Partsky moved the 'positive' needle a point or two. All of us do like people who like what we like.)

But what is really needed is some sort of 'Venn diagram' showing the intersection of various categories, to get back to the more serious factors. To use my example above. White evangelicals poll higher for McCain, so do the elderly. But what is his standing among non-evangelical elderly, etc., etc.

Another point on polling. There are no MAGIC TOWNS -- am i the only one who remembers that James Stewart movie -- so polls have to be weighted according to past voting performances. I'd like to knowl, for example, if the 'overall polls' do not give more weight to older and/or evangelical voters because of their history of voting more heavily in the past, and undercount black and/or young voters because they have been less frequent voters. (A lot of pewople include the cell phone/land line factor, but I've seen statements that pollsters don't that type of mistake any more -- like the LIBERTY magazine poll that gave the election to Landon.)

McCain's age as an issue is a wonderful opportunity for those hyper-obsessed with political correctness to indulge in an orgy of ideologically-approved bigotry.

Mental lapses and erratic behavior are always fair game, but aren't confined to the elderly. (See: Presidential elections of 2000 & 2004 and the current divorce rate.)

McCain's forgetting how many houses he owns is not age-related. It was wealth-related. Plus, it's just a matter of time until Fox News runs a story on a homeless men who can't remember how many houses they don't own.

The best scenario for America would be for McCain to pick a good VP, get elected, and croak immediately.

"Fox News runs a story on a homeless men"

Sorry. Senior moment. Put me on an iceberg cruise.

Reagan was 69 when he took office (and that was considered much "older" in 1980 than it is now), but Reagan appeared to be the picture of good health (though he dyed his hair and wore makeup). It wasn't until after the assassination attempt that he seemed to get confused and tired more easily. His age was more of an issue in 1984, but voters were content and Mondale seemed like a putz.

It's not just the age issue. Using my Fristian diagnostic abilities, I have determined that McGeriatric is suffering from early stage dementia. That's why he doesn't remember how many homes he owns, what kind of car he drives, or that there is no longer any such place as Chekoslovakia. Voter must recognize that even now a vote for McLameduck is a vote for his vice-president for president.

The best scenario for America would be for McCain to pick a good VP, get elected, and croak immediately.

There is no "best scenario for America" that includes "McCain" and "elected."

I think McCain is trying to overcome his age by showing that he is for war and more war, trying to make himself appear strong, hence the situation in Georgia. The truth is, by shouting his war mongering rhetoric, he just looks ridiculous, he has nothing that he can do against Russia. According to a German report, the Georgia situation was the fault of Georgia, and the Europeans are really laughing at the statements coming from the Bush/McCains.There is also some thinking that McCain is partially responsible for the situation, he and his Georgian lobbyist have been shouting against Russia for weeks, and some people feel that Georgia would not have attacked South Ossetia unless they had been assured of US military support.

since he's old enough to have seen all those old, black-n-white Flash Gordon serials in the movie houses, let's just call the old coot "McMing the Merciless" and be done with it....

FlashBack
Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, the Republican nominee for president in 1996, says Sen. John McCain’s age may be a major problem to address during the 2008 campaign.

Dole, now 83, was the oldest man to run for the White House when he was defeated by incumbent President Bill Clinton 11 years ago. Dole told The Sentinel newspaper in Carlisle, Pa., that the 70-year-old McCain will face “constant questions about his fitness and ability to serve” during the long presidential campaign.

flashback to the GOP 1996 Convention!!!!

Criticized as it was for a lack of Olympian drama, the Republican National Convention was not completely devoid of entertaining moments. This was, after all, a convention that denied speaking privileges to famously controversial ideologues but saw fit to invite swimsuit model and hemorrhoid-cream spokeswoman Kim Alexis to address delegates on the importance of God and family.

Political conventions--by definition events in which otherwise sedate adults wear unflattering animal-shaped hats--are always filled with snippets of unintentional comedy; satirists who try to mock the hoopla always run the risk of overdoing it. So it was quite a feat that Comedy Central's nightly coverage of last week's shindig in San Diego was so consistently funny. Unlike the Lenos and Lettermans of the world, who throughout the campaign have largely failed to advance their comedy beyond gags about Dole's age and Clinton's libido, COMEDY CENTRAL has generally maintained a greater respect for its viewers' political intelligence. Rather than barrage us with easy laugh getters, like images of earnest delegates showing off Dole hand puppets, CC's commentators worked hard at the convention, managing to extract humor from sources as unlikely as Congressman John Kasich, who talked to correspondent AL FRANKEN about his fondness for Alice Cooper.

As part of its InDecision '96 campaign coverage, the cable network paired the liberal Franken with gazillionaire conservative columnist Arianna Huffington for reports from the convention floor. Close friends despite their differences, Franken and Huffington offered the perfect blend of goofiness and good manners. If there was big news to come out of this convention, it was that the often-reviled Huffington is an affable wit indeed. Asking absurd questions of her compatriots (to Missouri Senator John Ashcroft: "Have you ever paid for a meal at this convention?") she metamorphosed into a finishing-school version of Howard Stern.

Comedy Central also broadcast its hit nightly round-table show, Politically Incorrect, live from San Diego. As always, the show featured panels of egregiously mismatched guests--one group last week included Oliver North, Georgia Congressman Bob Barr and Vicki Lawrence. Unlike the honchos at MTV, who had rapper Chuck D conduct an unamusing interview with Strom Thurmond during that network's convention coverage, the producers of Politically Incorrect understand that incongruous pairings are not necessarily entertaining in and of themselves. Host Bill Maher, TV's nimblest conversationalist, asked his Tuesday panel what party Jesus would join if were he alive today and elicited this straight-faced response from North: "I think Jesus would like to see us have a little bit left in our pockets, so that we could take the action to help the poor rather than have the government pretend to do it."

Politically Incorrect also featured lively commentary from Chris Rock. "If it was really our land," he said, in a swipe at Republican immigration policy, "it wouldn't be called San Diego." The networks are likely to offer scant coverage of next week's Democratic National Convention in Chicago; happily, Comedy Central will be there.