Inspiring. Outstanding. Hard hitting. What else could we have asked for?

Obama Biden 2008.

All the way.

The comment "let's not make a big election about small things" was not just a rejoinder to McCain, but also to the press. Skillful, subtle.

I doubt the press heard it that way.

If I have ever seen a politician nail a speech, Obama did tonight. Totally out of the ballpark.

David Brooks is a douchebag. He was "underwhelmed" and thought the emphasis on Democrats would turn off republicans and independents. I realize he has to say it because he wants Obama to lose, but really? Underwhelming?

"Inoculate" has just one "n".

I agree about the speech.

Fantastic. Incredible. Moving. Hard-hitting. A skillful blend of specificity and broad themes.

In a word, PRESIDENTIAL.

Let the Republicans rant about Paris Hilton, Greek Columns, and such. All they have to offer is sneers and jeers and childish behavior.

Barack succeeded in making McCain and Bush look small, petty, and churlish.

He made ME feel proud to be an American.

It was a good speech, but honestly, I thought Kerry's speech last night was better. More compelling. More straight from the heart.

Amazing speech, possibly his best, anyone who thought it was underwhelming is either lying or deaf

In a word, fabulous. And what a spectacle. John McCain wouldn't be able to half-fill that stadium if he were the half time show at a Broncos game. Oh, and it's one of the nicest evenings of the summer here in Denver, so we know who the Lord is backing this time around!

My grade is B-plus, but no more, as a political speech (meeting campaign needs, etc.) and C-minus as a true progressive speech.

The last two nights have been terrific. I'm in a safe state and damn it, I'm going to take off work and drive to a neighboring swing state to drive people to the polls in November. Unless, of course, the world becomes sane again and it's not even a contest by then.

Great to see some genuine anger and confrontation out of a Democrat instead of the usual milquetoast "let them swiftboat us" approach.

The Bush-loving idiots over at the Corner are setting new lows for bitter, snarky commentary so that indicates it had much of the desired effect.

The speech was great. They way he brought MLK in, briefly, at the end, choked this cynic up.

Steve: I don't know what the pundits are saying right now

That's OK. They don't, either.

I was so impressed by Obama and his vision for the country that I got online immediately afterwards and made a donation.

Do the same: www.barackobama.com

Can anyone imagine Bush using the word "inextricable," let alone pronounce it correctly?

The only thing I wished was that Obama had noted:

The Republicans like to quote Ronald Reagan, when he said, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help." What most people thought he meant was, We'll make governtment more efficient, more answerable to the peopel. But what he actually meant, and what Bush has spent eight years demonstrating, is that the Republicans' solution to bad government is to have no government at all. You're on your own: that's the Republican ideal.

Orange.

I thought it was skillful but I guess my expectations were to high because I wasn't wow'd. I thought he covered what needed to be covered and addressed what his perceived weaknesses are but I thought he was "small" in some of his attacks like the $5million dollar line and the eight is enough. I would rate it a B+ and rank it behind Bill and Hillary at this convention, but I think it did everything he wanted it to do.

I can hear the moans of conservatives throughout the land...as their facade burns to the ground. Poor babies.

Tonight disillusioned patriots found their long, lost wings...

Terrific speech! He may have sold the press, who will take credit for discovering him, and thereby saving the nation. I think McCain's free pass may have been voided.

Regarding Brooks, someone should tell him that it isn't the Democratic candidate's job to turn on the Republicans. Many "independents" are simply Republicans who have come to regret and detest Bush. After tonight, they have a valid alternative to McSame.

wolfson just said that he was impressed that 75k was there and that obama is the only one that could do that and the "we could not have done that"

wow

orange

spectacular

I liked the play on Ownership Society... you're on your own... they can own their failure.

Very sweet.

"Inspiring. Outstanding. Hard hitting. What else could we have asked for?"

How about substance!

Everything we needed. I think it was a home run.

I can't help but imagine a cigar smoke filled room of GOP higher-ups all silently sitting there then collectively muttering "oh sweet Jesus....what the fuck are we going to do."

I now suspect that we're going to see ads with Larry Sinclair and Rev. Wright for the next 2 months. Seriously, what else do they have?

Hey, fuck you, berlins.

I'll give you substance. That piece of shit John McShame has substance. As a gigilo and as a piece of crap, he has no equal.

That's substance.

One other thing: I love the music that Obama came out to: U2's "City of Blinding Light." A nice echo of Reagan's "Shining City on a Hill."

orange

More fluff without substance -- the AP write-up nails it. Lofty rhetoric without specifics and petty attacks on his opponent.

Obama loves the spotlight, but it's time for John McCain to kick him off the stage.

Sorry, but I don't agree. I thought it was a good speech, and would have worked well in ordinary times, but these are extraordinary times. Bush has been a disaster. There's no clue in this speech that this is so. We have lowered the bar of expectations.

I will never understand why the Democrats decided to let Bush get away with the crimes of the century and look the other way. The invasion and destruction of Iraq, the senseless killing of no less than 100,000 innocent civilians, the wreckage of their infrastructure, their economy, the driving of 4 million people from their homes, should have landed Bush and his cronies in a prison of hell, after impeachment, but nobody gives a damn. Off the table, with the issue, when it ought to be off with their heads.

And that's just for starters. What Bush has done is so egregious that it's almost impossible to assimilate.

And we let the bastards go.

And John McCain is first and foremost, according to every Democrat, a great American hero. Nobody even listens to the "but, even though he's a wonderful fella, full of good will, a true hero, he just, well, gosh, doesn't get everything quite right . . ." What a bunch of crap. This isn't how you win.

I suspect the Republicans are celebrating in their favorite pubs tonight that the wimpy Democrats never laid a glove on them

And they are right, I fear.

We'll see.

There was plenty of substance in that speech, and I suspect we'll be hearing a lot more.

Great thoughts, politics, and sentiment. An intelligent man speaks with passion about things he believes in.

Now, regrettably, the meandering cattle that are our national media will either make it part of our national consciousness, or follow GOP talking points and belittle it.

Matt Lauer save us from ourselves!

My one thought going in was, I sure hope Obama gives the speech tonight that John Kerry and Al Gore gave after they lost. It's time for a Democrat to go there when they're a candidate, rather an "if only..." And, he did.

It was less inspiring as others, but also more Presidential. It was more like a State of the Union rather than "on the mountaintop", but I think that was a good choice. He needed to keep doing what got him here, yet show he's Presidential, which this speech did.

He was brilliant. Forceful. Confident.
He stuffed McCain in a old can and kicked him down a dead end street.

More than anything else, the overarching and subliminal message was: I AM A FIGHTER AND I AM NOT BACKING DOWN. NOR WILL I LET YOU CHEAPEN ME.

And then to emphasize his point the Barack team let loose rockets that red-glared and percussed.

That was brilliant. Punctuated symbolism with a gunpowder smell: Watch me defend myself and America. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom....

That was the take away message here...
And that was the message that needed to be delivered.

Politics will never be the same after tonight.

What Bobo Brooks said "Underwhelming..."

What he meant "John McCain is doooooomed!"

My film professor friend always said Casablanca was better than Citizen Kane, because Michael Curtiz didn't know he was making Casablanca when he made Casablanca, and Welles wasn't aware of anything besides the fact that he was making Citizen Kane while making Citizen Kane.

Casablanca is great because it's the greatest movie of all time -- it ain't 'film' and it ain't 'cinema'. It's a movie.

Tonight wasn't "I Have a Dream", or Webster's Second Reply to Haine, or the Lincoln Second Inaugural.

But, ladies and gentlemen, you just saw the Casablanca of all stump speeches.

Oh dare we hope.... this was wonderful! Steve is right: he did it all and then some.

Also, Keith is saying the AP story on the wire says the speech had "no specifics" and calling AP out -- we must write and protest, not just AP but our local papers.

"More fluff without substance'

You wouldn't know substance if it bit you in the ass. Which it just did, bitch.

I agree about Republicans celebrating -- Obama just told the world he's Jimmy Carter. Afraid to fight and wants people to wear a sweater. This guy is unfit for command and the American public (which is not the same the Democratic party) got to see tonight that Obama doesn't have the balls to be commander in chief. Election. Over.

Yeah, this Associated Press shit has got to stop. Don't write your paper, call and say if they don't ask for Fournier to resign in an editorial, then you will cancel your subscription and will tell everyone you know to do the same. Do it tomorrow. Democrats, its time to fight these bastards.

zoe from Pittsburg:

I can't help but imagine a cigar smoke filled room of GOP higher-ups all silently sitting there then collectively muttering "oh sweet Jesus....what the fuck are we going to do. I now suspect that we're going to see ads with Larry Sinclair and Rev. Wright for the next 2 months. Seriously, what else do they have?

Exactly.

Whomever spliced this night together makes Karl Rove look like a fat teen with zits who likes to pull the wings off of flies.

Rock,

ha, ha, ha, haaaa, hahhhh, haaah, haaahh,

ha, ha.

I thought it was a really good speech. I had been nervous when I heard he was not going to give an inspirational speech, but I found inspiration aplenty. He hit McCain harder than I expected, but in no way unfairly, so I liked that. More than anything else, however, to see an exceptionally good biracial candidate give a fine acceptance speech as a major-party nominee for president, after an astoundingly good campaign, on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King's speech, I just choked up. I am rarely proud of America, but this was truly an exceptional moment in the nation's history.

I especially liked the bit about ending dependence on foreign oil in 10 years. It was the first time I'd heard that and I interpreted it as embracing fully Al Gore's ambitious platform.

orange

Yes, David Brooks said he was underwhelmed, but and I want people not to focus on thte underwhelmed, but what he said right before that; that Obama succeeded on substance.

He can't take that back, and trying to get any rightwing nutjob to admit that a Democrat has substance is like trying to find a unicorn in the Bronx...

It is so refreshing to hear a politician talk like a grown up. Responsible, Caring, Intelligent and Grammatically correct. Whew.

I was in Denver cheering with thousands after the Clintons' speeches but secretly thinking to myself - why do I have to vote for Obama because Hillary and Bill say so? I need to be sold on it by what Obama will or won't do. And tonight he laid it all out. Sold.

The bottom line is that anyone who think Obama will be elected president doesn't understand America. Americans want strong decisive heroes with common sense. They do not elect smug, elitist , ineffectual intellectuals that are afraid of their own shadow. This is still America and Obama represents the antithesis of American values.

berlin and rock are quite humorous today.

Obama just told the world he's Jimmy Carter. -Rock

If I recall correctly, Jimmy Carter won.

Probably not the best example for a troll to compare Obama to.

Superb. I think he could have gotten away with a few more and harder blows to McCain. There were several places where I could imagine some stronger language had been edited in and out and finally out a few times. But there will be time.

Rock, you are confused, or trolling, or both.

Gadfly, I know you are the editor of a great metropolitan newspaper, but you are not superman. I just heard Pat Buchanan say it was the best convention speech he has ever heard. I have a hunch Buchanan is a better judge of such things than any of us.

So sad that bitter idiots are still mocking Jimmy Carter's sweaters 30 years later. You don't have anything fresher than that?

I'm sure Bush's heartfelt admonition that we all go shopping was much more inspiring to you than Carter's (actually useful) suggestion?

The Republicans annihilate Obama in one paragraph:

Tonight, Americans witnessed a misleading speech that was so fundamentally at odds with the meager record of Barack Obama. When the temple comes down, the fireworks end, and the words are over, the facts remain: Senator Obama still has no record of bipartisanship, still opposes offshore drilling, still voted to raise taxes on those making just $42,000 per year, and still voted against funds for American troops in harm's way. The fact remains: Barack Obama is still not ready to be President.

How much is THE ONE paying you? Do you have Obama posters on the wall? Do you want his baby?

Sheesh....

"The bottom line is that anyone who think Obama will be elected president doesn't understand America. Americans want strong decisive heroes with common sense. They do not elect smug, elitist , ineffectual intellectuals that are afraid of their own shadow. This is still America and Obama represents the antithesis of American values."

You're right Rock. Americans do want strong (Obama talking out against an unpopular war, going to Detroit to talk to automakers about fuel efficiency, talking straight to teachers about merit based pay), decisive heroes with common sense. That's WHY they will elect Barack Obama.

They don't want smug (John McCain was a POW so he isn't accountable to anything), elitist (see my last point, only tack in his 7+ houses), ineffectual intellectuals (you got me there, McCain's not an intellectual), that are afraid of their own shadow (did you read the "prickly" Time interview? He was afraid to answer a question).

Yup, it's still America, and it will elect the person who does reflect its values; Barack Obama.

Now get out of here, troll.

Short on Substance:

“My goal is to get us off of Middle Eastern oil in ten years.� The only other place to get that kind of oil, Barack is, um, Russia. Sorry to share the bad news.

“Steve� argues that solar power on our roofs can help solve the problem. Yes it can, go nuts if you have the money. Enjoy the warm shower. Maybe you could pump water out of the ground and turn on the lights. Solar power cannot compete economically with other sources in the commercial marketplace though. And it cannot get you to work or move the food you eat 1500 miles on average. There is testing on a process that could store solar energy in the form of Hydrogen, but good luck with that.

Wind has peaked at 15% in Denmark because it is an intermittent power source and needs to be backed up. We could achieve 20% wind because we have a larger land mass that averages things out. Add solar and we might achieve 25%.

So assuming Barack is not lying to us or is not dangerously ignorant, we need to make up probably 3 billion barrels of oil energy annually with electricity. That is a lot of electricity. But the permitting efforts alone would take probably ten years to build a new conventional power plant. It takes seven years to get a cement plant permitted. It is probably impossible to get a new nuclear facility permitted.

‘Substance’ would be an Executive Order mandating federal agencies to complete the permitting reviews of new power projects within six months and provide immunity from environmental lawsuits. Anything else is just hot air.

I am 30 years old.I came to this country at the age of 4, when my father brought us to what he effectively described as, a place where all your dreams can come true. Sometimes for minorities and immigrants in this country, that dreamed may have seemed far off, beyond our reach. But my father whose words impacted us so much and who worked 3 jobs, starting out working in a mail room, I saw his words become the vision tonight. Seeing an African American on that stage and not just looking the part but really owning the floor, overwhelmed me to say the least and is so inspiring to me that I can't imagine conservatives who would bash this moment, on the night of the famed "I have a dream speech". But this is what conservatives do, they resist change, whether by racially charged commentary or divide and conquer tactics. They look to keep this beautiful country with incredible talent and racially diverse talent, suppressed. I believe we all have something to offer and can uplift each other to new heights. Tonight wasn't the first night I was proud to be an American, but in the words of Michelle Obama, I felt my fathers words as a child. Tonight Obama spoke out against defining ourselves as simply red and blue states but as the people of one, one nation and one country and I am damn proud to be apart of it! Obama becomes a part of history tonight and I will do my best to campaign on his behalf.

My favorite part of Obama's speech was his pushing back against John McCain's disgusting attack on his patriotism.

The MSM should be asahmed of itself for giving McCain a free pass on his vicious smear against Obama.

John McCain is a disgrace as a human being and has no business sitting in the Oval Office.

Americans want strong decisive heroes with common sense

And white guys.

In fact, if you don't have a decisive hero, or a hero with common sense , some indecisive old white guy no common sense whatsoever will probably do.

It's because [John McCain] doesn't get it. -Barack Obama

And he never will. His current staff is there to make sure he's a doddering puppet and they pull the strings.

Speaking of bloated, worthless, anti-American puppeteers, Chris Matthews just said people really hate the politics of Karl Rove because it seeks only to divide us.

If the American people really want a "strong and decisive" third term of Bush (who nobody ever accused of being indecisive -- just a mental midget), and choose it over a strong and decisive candidate who actually has the brains and ability to lead (but has a strange name and used to have a pastor people don't like), then the American people will deserve the misery they'll be bringing upon themselves. Let's all hope that doesn't happen.

steve, most of the pundits really luved the speech. of course msnbc fluffed obama to the max about it, but all the cnn kids luved it too. even faux is doing a quite respectful highlight reel of the whole convention, w/o comment or snark.

it's going to be a tough next few days to be a repubbblican.

awesome.

Tomorrow, McCain should ponder the ancient koan about the sound of a tree falling in the woods when he makes an announcement that no one will care about.

It was the greatest political speech since Bryant or Lincoln, or either Roosevelt. So many great Americans' speeches are fixed in our head as words on paper; the delivery rarely adjudged as remarkable by contemporaries--the Gettysburg Address or the Checker's plea.

Obama delivered, live, a speech that resonates on paper, on television, on the radio, a podcast, or a viral video. In short, it was as brilliant as a Charlie Parker solo--when he was on fire. We were all uplifted and honored to have heard it contemporaneously.

Doubtful:

hey, right? "My nominee is the one man who might be richer than me... we're not sure, it gets tough once you get in the double and triple digit millions... MITT ROMNEY!!!!"

That was a game changer. And I'm not just talkin about the election. This could change politics in America forever.

Hey Rock --

Balls? You want balls? I got YOUR balls right here, dude. Beg for them back. Beg.

It is pathetic that you can't even come up with your own talking points, and have to be TOLD what to think by some party hack or sweaty talk radio jagoff.

-- Bokonon

Rock, Is your nickname referring to what is between your ears? Grow up, get a clue, stop bloviating. Remember rockhead, it is better to be quiet and be thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt.

Americans want strong decisive heroes with common sense... -- Rock
*********************
YOU SPEAK FOR WHAT 'AMERICANS' WANT? Since when? When you get over your delusions of grandeur, check back in the the non-delusional world.

“Substance� would be placing a 15% tariff on all imports coming into the Country and applying those revenues to paying off the debt and lowering taxes. This will not happen though. The interests that both the Republican and Democratic parties are beholden to make higher profit margins using $3/day labor in Guatemala and Honduras and shipping the goods in.

Creating a seperate category of ‘patriot’ companies is kind of creepy. Bring back tariffs if you want to lower taxes and increase jobs.

I think he hit a grand slam... http://enewsreference.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/barack-obama-gives-electrifying-acceptance-speech/

This is what Republicans do. They are consistent if not predictable. They are racially divisive if not outright racists all together. I mean they get there friends together and sit in a circle and prayer to Fox News, like a massive conservative circle jerk.

Actually I think 'Rock' is a great barometer:

The deeper the cut the louder a swine squeals.
I smell bacon sizzling...

Kyel E. Moore,

Well, I think it's still up in the air if it will be Romney or Pawlenty, but if it's Romney, I anxiously await the commercials listing the combined number of houses those elitists own.

It's laughable when the anemic trolls we have here try to claim Obama and Biden are elitists when Cindy McCain owns jewelry that's worth more than both of them.

If it's Pawlenty, it will simply mean that John McCain has thrown in the towel and sacrificed the election for a greater goal: beating Al Franken.

Tonight made it clear that it is now time for John McCain to prove to the American people - if he can - that his presidency would not mean eight more years of failed Bush policies. That is the real issue at the center of this electon.

Wow, the Republican trolls here are really freaking out. I guess it really was a masterful speech.

Brick oven Bill: You are full of shit. There is enough radiant energy in Phoenix to power the United States. Batteries and conversion cells are already here--investment is needed, not some freaking negative talking points assault. Jesus. But I wonder who might want to delay alternative sources of energy, and perhaps stifle the innovation needed to capitalize on American innovation?

Damn you Benen. You forgot to spray a few cans of "Troll B Gone" as you posted this thread.

Barack killed it tonight. Better than any candidate I have ever witnessed, Barack sees what's going on. That he spent time defusing the land mines Republicans and their complicit media have been laying down (F*ck you David Brooks) shows Barack sees the playing field better than any politician we have seen in our time. Doubters, well you can bitch all you want. Post a better speech, then I'll believe you.

It's laughable when the anemic trolls we have here try to claim Obama and Biden are elitists when Cindy McCain owns jewelry that's worth more than both of them.

The McCains spent $270,000 last year on household servants.

No wonder they think people making $5 million a year are middle class -- in their eyes, a quarter million is barely enough to cover the help.

Dems have so much going for them this year. I think they finally have a voice. Each politician have been honing their specialty through out their careers, but for some reason this year they are singing in unison like a choir that highlight some of the most important issues to the average American:

Hillary - Women's right
Gore - Environment / Energy
Biden - Blue Collar / working class roots
Obama - Connecting the dots, among many other things

It's the first time that I can remember that Democrats have personalities that are A) powerful politicians in their respective fields B) working together C) making a comprehensive approach of defensive/offensive maneuvering to get voters on board.

I'm feeling pretty good coming out of this convention.

Eight is enough - genius.

Obama delivered, live, a speech that resonates on paper, on television, on the radio, a podcast, or a viral video. In short, it was as brilliant as a Charlie Parker solo--when he was on fire. We were all uplifted and honored to have heard it contemporaneously.
Posted by: Sparko

I listened to it while working on the computer, and wasn't all that super-impressed. He's got a great voice and all, but here's two things he did that annoy the crap out of me (and the repubs do it just as much and as badly).

1. The personal anecdote. "I looked out and saw little Cindy Lou Who, who was barely more than two." Did Abe Lincoln ever do that? Trite and hackneyed technique, but I guess it is required in the playbook.

2. The laundry list. As he rattled off his raw meat to the special interests, I almost expected to see a Powerpoint presentation with a bulleted list and him with a laser pointer.

These are probably typical with nom acceptance speeches. Hope he does better with the inaugural if he gets it.

I read it, not listened, and most of it was good.

Really good.

Some of the specifics were wrong.

"I especially liked the bit about ending dependence on foreign oil in 10 years."

That isn't going to happen. Dependence on Middle Eastern and Venezuelan oil, sure. But not dependence on Canadian oil. did he promise to expedite extraction of oil from the Rocky Mountain shale? Expand exploration in Alaska? I am one of the biggest boosters of alternative fuels and electricity power sources on this site, but ending dependence on all foreign oil will take more than 25 years, unless there is a massive coal-based synfuels program, which Obama has not claimed to support.

He is not going to reduce taxes for 95% of Americans.

His plan for government-supported assistance to the auto industries to make the transition into the future is probably, if carried out, going to punish the non-unionized auto factories and be a boondogle for the unionized auto factories.

About nuclear power -- if he emphasizes "safely" as much as most Democrats, that means he'll always find reasons not to build any.

There was enough substance to like, and enough substance to debate. It was really a very good speech. If he had any track record at successfully managing anything he'd be a shoo-in.

Obama made it clear there is an adult in this race. Only one.

“As President, I will … find ways to safely harness nuclear power.�

Barack, um, your fellow countrymen, um, figured this one out half a century ago. “Substance� would include a call to break ground on one hundred new nuclear power plants within 2 years of assuming office and be generating new clean electricity by the time you gave your second inaugural.

What a sleazy line that one was.

Rock, If Americans want strong decisive heroes with common sense, then why was Bush elected twice. He is none of those things and you know it. So, please spare us your crap.

God smiled on the Democratic convention by providing a beautiful evening almost everywhere in the land - but especially Denver.

In contrast during the Republican convention, The Almighty is going to bring a hurricane to show His disgust for what the Republicans have done to ethics, morality, and the paltry excuse of patriotism displayed on tailgates and back bumpers.

I wonder how badly the Republicans will eschew any displays of compassion or urgency for those in the path of the storm.

oops, I went back and re-read, and this is what he actually said: in 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

That's achievable, but only with much enhanced extraction of oil from U.S. and Canadian territory. Solar, wind and biofuels are coming, but they are not coming that fast.

A question for berlins: Would you even recognize substance if it was right in front of you?

I do realize that you'd probably get all excited about what is considered REAL substance in your neck of the woods: $400.00 haircuts, being schooled in madrassas, being a muslim who happens to also have a radical christian pastor, a supporter of terrorists etc...

I would like you to point out some 'real' substance in the McCain plan/ platform. Of course there are some rules. As you are aware, truth and reality have a liberal bias, which will probably make it rather hard for you to use facts and figures based in reality.

Remember, only mention topics and solutions offered by McCain that are actually possible and not 'voodoo economics' and 'bumper sticker' slogans for low-information voters.

We are all waiting with anticipation.

oops, I went back and re-read, and this is what he actually said: in 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

That's achievable, but only with much enhanced extraction of oil from U.S. and Canadian territory. Solar, wind and biofuels are coming, but they are not coming that fast.
Posted by: MatthewRMarler

Oil being fungible, not sure if it makes a diff who we buy it from if we're not buying it from ourselves. Agree with the need to extract more from our own sources. Agree with Bill on the need to get some serious nuke power going.

Doubtful: HAHAHAH! I love it, Cindy's got jewelry worth more than Obama and Biden together.

And I really think Mick hit a homerun in his comment.

Gore's the voice on environment, Hillary's the voice on women's rights. Biden's got the blue collar's back, and Obama connects the dots.

I really get that because what got me in Obama's corner coming on two years now is that mental process of his that allows him to see things not merely as one issue to the next, but all in an interconnected net. It lets you see how, for instance, crime rate can affect abortion rate, how our military actions can affect the economy back home, and so on and so forth.

That's one of his greatest assets as our next president, that ability to not necessarily think outside the box, but to at the very least see the box as a whole and not just its individual and separated parts.

There's that and the fact that the guy is simply unflappable. You look at the pressure that was on him tonight, the pressure to perform, to still have the trademark ability to inspire, yet to deliver the details. You know, the success of the convention, and the direction of the campaign for the next two months hinged on his performance tonight, and he walked out on that stage, and I would bet money his pulse was lower than mine.

I know I could never handle the awesome power and responsibility of that office, but I can't imagine how he wasn't biologically made for it.

So, anyway, I don't usually hang out in comments sections, just really pumped from tonight. I want everyone to just think, for two minutes, close your eyes and imagine what it will be like on inauguration day when President Elect Barack Obama becomes President Barack Obama. Imagine the Bush's Chief Justice swearing him in. Imagine Bush's staff packing up their desks and grumbling on the way out. Imagine the promise that a new Democratic president brings to the White House.

Get that feeling in you. Let it simmer.

And now pack it away. You don't get that feeling again until you help make it happen.

Good night folks.

As President, I will … find ways to safely harness nuclear power.

The U.S. has 105 safely operating nuclear power plants, and France gets 80% of its electricity from nuclear power plants. What's needed in the U.S. now is faster permitting. If he really thinks that safer ways need to be found, then it's not likely that his administration would permit any nuclear power plants to be built.

I think it was an excellent speech. I mention these debating points because I like debating. It's likely that McCain will give a poorer speech, but more clearly support building new nuclear power plants. So, ..., you'll be able to have a discussion with yourself about which man, if elected, would actually increase American nuclear power production.

Obama did fabulously tonight. Presidential. Inspirational. The Rethugs are threatening to postpone their convention because of the hurricane coming to the Gulf. I kid you not. I think that means they thought Obama was, well, pretty much okay...

SJRSM: Oil being fungible, not sure if it makes a diff who we buy it from if we're not buying it from ourselves.

It matters that we not finance people who are purchasing weapons to destroy Israel or threaten Ukraine. Things like that.

A message for rock: Considering the content of your post, I doubt you're associated with Dailykos, as you indicated with your 'mailto: address'

I'd have to assume that you're a republican coward who is afraid to use your own e-mail. If you don't want to use your 'real' e-mail address, you can leave it blank - don't use someone else's. Then again, fraud is a common trait in your party. In other words, you're in the 'right' party, and we would all like you to stay there. It makes it easier to keep track of who the bad guys are.

It's like in the movies: the good guys wear white and the bad guys wear black. After this week's convention it is apparent that the good guys are wearing Obama buttons and the bad guys are stuck with McCain buttons. Even though quite a few of them are hiding the buttons and pretending to be 'independents'

So predictable

SJRSM: Oil being fungible, not sure if it makes a diff who we buy it from if we're not buying it from ourselves.

It matters that we not finance people who are purchasing weapons to destroy Israel or threaten Ukraine. Things like that.

I'm with you 100%, but if we buy our oil from Canada and whomever they sell it to now buys it from Saudi Arabia, what's really happened? Just a feel-good thing?

Hi Sparko, It’s Full of Shit Bill!

If solar power were to become economically feasible, the market will introduce it. I wish the solar power people well.

Solar power could be big if the technologies that promise to convert solar power to hydrogen pan out. The guy who patented the hydrosquirter water gun says he can achieve efficiencies of 60%. Hydrogen powers fuel cells so that would be good. And if I had bread, and ham, and cheese, I could make a ham and cheese sandwich.

We have been working on solar power since the 1970s.

Solar Power Subsidies

Are we really going to elect a socialist? Has this nation fallen so far that this is possible? Obama is to the left of Bernie Saunders!!

No. We have not drifted so far away from the center that a socialist will get elected.

Obama is an empty suit. A socialist. He is very idealistic and I am sure he has good intentions. BUT... the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Sweet Jesus, do people even know what fucking socialism is?

Obama is to the left of Bernie Saunders!!

And pi is equal to 2.

Thanks for playing.

It's so funny to see the whining of the idiots who claimed they would vote democratic if only Hillary were nominated - it's unlikely supporters of George W. Bush's butchery in Iraq were ever serious. And, let's face it, the world doesn't need another failed pilot leading the United States. It doesn't need someone so fucking stupid that he thinks Iraq was a threat to our national security. It doesn't need someone whose only qualification is his history of failure - even John McCain admits that being captured is hardly the work of a hero.

But it isn't surprising that McCain thought murdering Iraqis who weren't a threat to our national security was a good idea, it's what he did before crashing yet another plane (quick bit of trivia - did John McCain crash more or fewer planes than he has houses?) in Vietnam - unless one of you troglodytes can demonstrate what no one has in the forty years since it happened - that Vietnam was an actual threat to our nation.

RE:Posted by: doc

That word "socialist", gets thrown around all too often Doc. It is obvious you are running the conservative playbook step by step. Please explain the following, since I am sure you are supporting McCain and please I beg you to accept this challenge, please explain McCain's position on the following:

1) Economy- explain his plan and how it impacts middle America? most of us....

2) Health Care- what is his plan and how does it ease the current health care crisis?

3) Rebuilding our alliances and standing in the world? Explain how he plans to accomplish this?

Since you are anti-liberal, which I happen to think is a beautiful word, progress, conservative stands to be the opposite of that. You've already criticized Obama as an empty suit...so I challenge you fill out McCain's Suit?

Kyle E. Moore said: Imagine Bush's staff packing up their desks and grumbling on the way out. Imagine the promise that a new Democratic president brings to the White House.

I doubt it would happen that way. Remember when they accused the Clinton Administration of trashing the offices inside the white house? That is exactly what they intend to do. No such thing as a Republican accepting defeat. The republicans can't help themselves; they'll have to take revenge and do something immensely childish and stupid. What else is new.

At least we can all rest assured, that once the Obama administration cleans up whatever mess the Bush cabal leaves at the White House, President Barack will start leading our country in the right direction.

Some of the specifics were wrong.

"I especially liked the bit about ending dependence on foreign oil in 10 years."

He is not going to reduce taxes for 95% of Americans.
- MatthewRMarler

Matt, I believe he said "end our dependence on oil from the Middle East." Since we're clearing up the specifics...

And to the guy who wondered how millions of people would get to work without fossil fuels: Ever heard of electricity? Or efficiency?

Best line of the night goes to Richardson -
"John McCain might spend hundreds of dollars on his shoes, but the American people shouldn't pay for his flip-flops." Classic

Some of the specifics were wrong.

"I especially liked the bit about ending dependence on foreign oil in 10 years."

He is not going to reduce taxes for 95% of Americans.
- MatthewRMarler

Matt, I believe he said "end our dependence on oil from the Middle East." Since we're clearing up the specifics...

And to the guy who wondered how millions of people would get to work without fossil fuels: Ever heard of electricity? Or efficiency?

Best line of the night goes to Richardson -
"John McCain might spend hundreds of dollars on his shoes, but the American people shouldn't pay for his flip-flops." Classic

Man, the trolls are out in full force tonight! Who are these people with nothing better to do that come to "liberal" blogs and attempt to eviscerate said liberals. Do right-wing blogs have trolls too?

re: Please conservatives take up my challenge! If you can that is.In fact I beg you to accept this challenge, please explain McCain's position on the following:

1) Economy- explain his plan and how it impacts middle America? most of us....

2) Health Care- what is his plan and how does it ease the current health care crisis?

3) Rebuilding our alliances and standing in the world? Explain how he plans to accomplish this?

Any takers?***************

Doc: Obama is to the left of Bernie Saunders!!

Could be. Bernie Saunders, author of Boundless Renewal doesn't talk about his politics, but maybe he's a conservative.

But is Obama to the left of Bernie Sanders? Senator from Vermont? No way.

I just heard Pat Buchanan say it was the best convention speech he has ever heard.

And considering Buchanan has no dog in this fight (I don't think he's 100% sold on McCain), that's high praise indeed.

I thought it was a solid, effective speech. Grand slam? No, but Obama tripled to the gap in left-center with two on. And that should be enough to be the game-winning RBI.

Now we wait for McCain to announce the identity of the William Miller of 2008.

doc said: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That is so true. Let me refresh your 'empty suit' memory:
1) George Bush ran as a 'compassionate conservative'
2)George Bush promised that he would bring 'honor and integrity' back into the White House.
3) George Bush claimed that he would reach across the isle and work together with Democrats.
4) George Bush didn't want to do any 'nation building'

There are plenty more examples, but to follow your 'republican logic' of the good intentions leading directly to hell... I have to say that your George Bush did a pretty darn good job.

Although we could argue that America hasn't quite turned into hell, the republicans (with a small 'r') sure tried hard to get there within 8 years.

As any 'good' republican: Bush lied through his teeth and was correct in assuming that the low-information voter and gullible people (looking at you 'doc' and 'rock' and 'mhr' and all the other trolls) would forget his promises from 4 years earlier. People like you, doc, elected Bush into a second term.

Today, people like you, doc, still haven't wizened up. What would it take for you to do at least an effort and read some of the stuff on future President Obama's websites and realize that the so called 'empty suit' is actually full of GREAT plans and actually has REAL solutions to offer.

Do you realize how moronic you sound when spewing the 'elitist' label? George Bush as well as John McCain were born in an elitist environment and are still enjoying the fringe benefits of being elitists. Enough of that.

"The budget that I will submit will keep America on track for a surplus in 2012. "

"The United States is committed to strengthening our energy security and confronting global climate change. And the best way to meet these goals is for America to continue leading the way toward the development of cleaner and more energy-efficient technology."

The words of Barack? No, the empty promises of George Bush in the 2008 SOTU. People are taking apart Barack's speech and trying to "fact check" each statement. Fine. Do that. But where were these people when looking at Bush's speeches or McCain's campaign speeches?

Where is Bush's robotic lunar vehicle launch promised by 2008? His man on Mars? Bin Laden dead or alive? Greetings as liberators in Iraq, mission accomplished, rebuilding New Orleans, freedom marching on, finding WMDs in Iraq, tax relief for all Americans, a stronger economy ... shall I go on?

Bush, and his sidekick McCain have made their failed promises while being the party in power. As Barack admitted, he's thinking big, as Kennedy did with his promises of reaching the moon. If you doubt Barack, give him four years and tell him to prove it. Barack's "fact checkers" have no definite proof he can't.

Simply brilliant, but more important, it met the challenge he had given himself. Not only did his HAVE to be the best speech at the Convention -- against the competition of Teddy, Hillary, Bill, Biden, and even Michelle -- but he knew it was the anniversary of "I Had A Dream" and it had to be 'worthy' of that.

It was.

And for those worshipers at the throne of Karl Rove that I see here so frequently -- no, not the Republicans, the Democrats who keep screaming -- "Roll Out Our OWN SWIFTBOATERS! GET OUR 527s ATTACKATTACKATTACKING" just don't get it.

First, Obama really means what he says about politics being too important for this. (And, as it hsppens, he's right about that.) You want him, in effect, to say "See, I'm just a big a liar as all those other politicians." Great message, smart thinking, riiiight!

Second, his 'new politics versus the old' works on a lot of levels. Every time McCain or a Republican attacks him, its 'old politics,' he answers the attacks, and ties the Republicans even more to the past -- which means to Bush. And "Old politics" is coming from -- which he doesn't have to say -- an Old politician.

Third, the surprising thing is that Obama really is who he pretends to be. There haven't been any new, credible attacks on him since the Wright-Pfleger-Rezko-Michelle ones, and he's shown he can answer all of them. The rest have been the PUMAs ("You know insanity when you see and hear it" to quote Chris Matthews), Larry Sinclair (arrested for a fraud warrant as he left the National Press Club) and Corsi ("You said WHAT about John McCain?"). Nobody's brought anything else out except the celebrity bullshit. Oh, and the fact that Obama's black -- but y'know, I think people already noticed that.

Fourth, you guys don't recognize attacks when you see them. "We all honor John McCain's heroism in the service of his country" (which we should, it was only after he came back that he became an empty man with no principles -- not even bad ones) translates as "Okay John, we know you were a POW, can we talk about something else."

"John McCain would not take a position for partisan advantage" -- maybe the one real whopper he told -- doesn't just condemn him for his attacks on Obama, but means that whatever side looks worse in his flip-flops can be used against him.

And there's more than enough room to attack McCain on the issues -- that's perfectly legitimate, and can be done slowly but steadily, as it was during the convention. Everytime Biden opens his mouth and talks about his own story it is an attack on 'seven houses and rich wife.' Everytime either one points out how out of touch McCain is with the average person that hits harder than any 'swiftboating.'

And, as I keep on pointing out, the American electorate ain't as moronic as you love to suggest. Some of them might even be as smart as you are --- as much as that hurts to admit.

Whomever spliced this night together makes Karl Rove look like a fat teen with zits who likes to pull the wings off of flies.

Um, I always thought Karl Rove made himself look that way, though.

The United States' largest foreign oil supplier is actually Canada, Brick Oven Bilbo, and I'm beginning to wonder where you get your energy "facts". It'd be hard to say if Canada's reserves exceed Russia's, because a lot of Russia is still largely unexplored, particularly the Far East. However, Canada has the third-largest known reserves in the world, after Saudi Arabia and Iraq. In the case of Saudi Arabia, we have to take their word that they have the largest reserves because they have never permitted independent verification, and likely never will.

Good speech, more substance (as in reality-based substance) than the last five Republican nomination speeches combined. Could have had more fire, but I think he wanted to tone it down, to put on the presidential persona, to fit the role he is supposed to play in our society. McCain would do the same thing if he was in front of a stadium that size. (cough) No Matter.

He seemed a tad constrained, knowing that the enemy is ready to pounce must make anyone a little nervous, this is now the big time. If you've seen Barack's pep talks, he says 'We must win this. We have no choice.' Fortunately we have a good candidate at the same time that we have a Republican party whose leader's approval is around 20%. And we have recent video of McCain loudly and angrily firing away (at the 80% of us who wish Bush was just a bad memory already). We have hours of tape of him backing up the worst president ever, over and over and over. Are we to believe that he would be much different?

Roll the tapes, and let McCain explain himself. He can't, not without insulting the intelligence of the informed voter. The explanation is simple: He doesn't get it.

He Just Doesn't Get It.

Bush & Cheney's warmongering, the Republican disaster economy, George Bush's sheer stupidity, The role of government, especially at times like the Katrina debacle, corruption on an unprecedented scale, and just Being intellectually curious enough to learn to use a computer, like any 6 year old can do.

He doesn't get any of that. At all. And that's because he doesn't WANT to get it. He's the old guy yelling at his TV... "What? The Shiites are supporting the Sunni terrorists? Well I have a simple solution... Let's bomb the crap* out of them! Here, I'll sing about bombing the heck* out of them!"

Meanwhile, 150,000 American servicemen wait for a new administration to get them out of the last war started by a trigger-happy Republican.

Rock, you are whistling past the graveyard and you know it. See you and all those fired up Republicans this fall, as you own your failure.

* For a large but incomplete listing of all the foul phrases John McCain has publicly yelled at various people (mostly Republicans), please read "The Real McCain: Why Conservatives Don't Trust Him and Why Independents Shouldn't"

to doc who said:I thought you liberals were supposed to be the tolerant ones.

You are correct in that assumption. Unlike the right wing blogs, you haven't been banned, when commenting. If you can't handle the heat (truth) then you can always remove yourself.

This is no longer the old times of 'roll-over-democrats' in peace time. America is in dire needs of some adult supervision: President Obama will bring that to the table.

Of course, you are entitled to throw tantrums, and show your displeasure, for the next eight years. That's what growing up is all about. By the time Obama's 8 years are finished; the country will be in much better shape, and you 'may' be allowed to sit at the grown up table again.

I wish someone would use all those videos of McCain, as Racer X suggested.

What would look nice is to do something similar to the Stephen Colbert Formidable Opponent segment, where he debates himself.

Can you imagine how that would go over? Seeing McCain offer completely opposite positions on several important topics? Highlighting the flip-flops along the way.

That, my friends, was the best use of rhetoric and oratory as one would use a machine gun that I have ever witnessed. The phrase I was taught was "walk your fire up to the enemy and fire at will." Wonderful. Fantastic. Masterful.

If we don't elect this guy, I really am going to follow through on my threat of eight years ago and become a Canadian.

Wow.

Wow.

The personal anecdote. "I looked out and saw little Cindy Lou Who, who was barely more than two." Did Abe Lincoln ever do that?

No, and neither did Barack Obama.

Trite and hackneyed technique, but I guess it is required in the playbook.

The anecdotes Obama actually uses are no more a conventional, common, and overused technique in late 20th and early 21st century political speeches than the devices Lincoln used were conventional in mid-19th century speeches. Yes, the rhetorical conventions have changed a bit in 150 years (surprise, surprise), and Lincoln's anecdotes -- for which he was noted for a facility -- were, consistent with the conventional technique for the time, more often fictional or proverbial than based on representing personal encounters.

So WTF is your point, really?

Anybody who doesn't vote Obama is a boot licking pussy or an asshole millionaire

And the convention fades to black to the music from the movie, "Remember the Titans."

"Whoever didn't get picked for Republican VP today may be a lucky Republican."

- Alex Castellanos GOP political consultant after Obama's speech 8/28/08

So WTF is your point, really?
Posted by: cmdicely

Besides you being a pedant? That none of the really great speeches I know use that. I cringe every time I hear it, and hoped I wasn't going to hear it last night. But I did, and as I noted...Trite and hackneyed technique, but I guess it is required in the playbook.

Lackluster speech, too much hype and drama. Actuality it was over the top. Obama tried to hard and the end result was not believable. He did not convince me, that he would make a good president! His supporters may have enjoyed the show, but i doubt he picked up any new supporters. So basically it was a waste of time.

“Substance� would include a call to break ground on one hundred new nuclear power plants within 2 years of assuming office and be generating new clean electricity by the time you gave your second inaugural.

You know what, I'll take that deal. One condition: The plants are next door to Marler and Brick Oven Bill on one side, and the nuclear waste dumps are next door to them -- or maybe their kids' schools -- on the other.

CBR readers may not be familiar with Marler's long history of disingenuous commentry, but no longtime WaMo readers know that Maler isn't here for good faith debate. His rep is so bad that he posted under a pseudonym for a while, and it's really surprising he isn't ashamed to associate his own name with his dishonest postings.

The balls-to-the-wall advocacy of nuclear power is typical of the conservative mindset, though -- it's unpopular with liberals, offers benefits (cheap energy) to the conservative while the costs (storage of nuclear waste, risk of accident) they perceive as not having to pay.

Marler, BO Bill, you want to advocate nuclear power, you explain what we're going to do with the nuclear waste we have right now, let alone what we'll do with that produced by a hundredfold increase. Otherwise, kindly take your disningenuous bullshit and shove it.

Marler, BO Bill, you want to advocate nuclear power, you explain what we're going to do with the nuclear waste we have right now, let alone what we'll do with that produced by a hundredfold increase.
Posted by: Gregory

We'll build repositories for it and then put it there and store it. Period.

We'll build repositories for it and then put it there and store it. Period.

That isn't exactly working out for us right now, let alone with a hundred times more plants.

But my condition stands: you volunteer to have one next to your house, and I'm on board. Play the NIMBY card and the deal's off.

I might add that Red State Mike's flip response indicates another flaw of the Republicans' diseased minset. The problem of storing nuclear waste is one that has an impact of thousands of years. RSM has no actual solution to the problem, as his flip response indicates -- though we could hardly blame him for his lack of solution, as the best engineers in the business haven't figured it out in 50 years. Mike just wants his -- cheap enegry, preferably from a source liberals don't like, with someone else bearing the cost, and if it's future generations burdened with the fallout, that isn't his problem.

Shame on you, Red State Mike.

That isn't exactly working out for us right now, let alone with a hundred times more plants.

But my condition stands: you volunteer to have one next to your house, and I'm on board. Play the NIMBY card and the deal's off.
Posted by: Gregory

We're all already volunteering to store waste near our neighborhoods, or at least wherever there are nuclear power plants. What I am volunteering to do is to put it out in the deserts of Nevada where they've already blown up hundreds of underground nuclear tests, to move it away from our neighborhoods and houses.

As far as the best engineers not figuring it out, it's not an engineering problem. It is a political NIMBY problem.

Hey, I got an idea. Why don't we put up some wind tubine farms offshore to take advantage of all that free wind energy? I hear Nantucket Sound is an excellent location! Oh wait...

Shame on you, Gregory, for being a NIMBY hypocrite.

We're all already volunteering to store waste near our neighborhoods, or at least wherever there are nuclear power plants.

And you're demanding increasing the number of power plants. So the question stands -- is your mouth writing a check your butt isn't willing to cash?

What I am volunteering to do is to put it out in the deserts of Nevada where they've already blown up hundreds of underground nuclear tests, to move it away from our neighborhoods and houses.

There's my answer. Just like I said, you're in favor of increasing the production of nuclear waste, but you aren't willing to live next to it yourself. (I haven't even mentioned the risks inherent in transporting it -- do you volunterr to have all that waste trucked next to your house or your kids' school?)

As far as the best engineers not figuring it out, it's not an engineering problem. It is a political NIMBY problem.

No, Mike. There is no known safe long-term method for storing nuclear waste. And you're demanding we increase production of nuclear waste a hundredfold.

Of course, you're safe in making that demand, because NIMBY realities -- which you've admitted you subscribe to -- ensure we won't have those hundred times as many plants, so you and your dishonest conservative cohorts -- but I repeat myself -- can pretend to offer a "solution" you know is nothing of the kind.

Hey, I got an idea. Why don't we put up some wind tubine farms offshore to take advantage of all that free wind energy? I hear Nantucket Sound is an excellent location! Oh wait...

Mike, you blithering idiot, when have I expressed any opposition you wind farms in Nantucket Sound? Produce one cite, or admit your "hypocrite" tag is your usual bluster when you know you have no cogent response.

I know it sucks for you that advocating
Republican policies leaves you bereft of facts and logic, but no one forces you to argue in bad faith. Shame on you, Mike.

There's my answer. Just like I said, you're in favor of increasing the production of nuclear waste, but you aren't willing to live next to it yourself. (I haven't even mentioned the risks inherent in transporting it -- do you volunteer to have all that waste trucked next to your house or your kids' school?)

We don't need to live next to it. You put it where the people aren't. It is that simple, and you are that stupid for not knowing it. All that waste in one sport where it can be continuously monitored and controlled, and those controls improved upon while our technology grows, is better than dumping billions of tons of carbon waste into the atmosphere where it really is the genie let out of the bottle.

Global warming that changes the climate foever or nuclear waste the is centrally stored and monitored. You decide. Looks like you already did. Better buy an air conditioner.

Mike, you blithering idiot, when have I expressed any opposition you wind farms in Nantucket Sound?

Gregory you moron, Where's are the senior democratic leadership leading to the front on this one, other than to hold NIMBY signs at an anti-wind farm protest? I would expect you to be up in arms about it. Your silence speaks volumes. You're just a shill for your blue overlords.

Does a speech make a man? My son gives a great speech, but like Obama he lacks the experience to be given the most important job of the nation. I will not vote for a media and PR creation. I will not be led like sheep by the supposedly "unbiased" news media who crams Obama down our throats over and over. In fact, I will not be voting in this election at all.

Tom: the speech was an articulate vision of his plans for the future. It was the best political speech and vision of your lifetime--or mine. And a black man standing before an electorate with centuries of racist proclivities is nothing short of courageous.
Obama is the real deal. He sounds brilliant, writes brilliantly, and thinks brilliantly because he is brilliant. Not everyone can recognize virtue or greatness--but the fault lies not in the stars, Horatio, but in themselves.

And Gregory: great points all. There are ways out of Middle East energy holes. We need to let our national genius have a chance to work without petro-interference. Hell our whole national transportation grid--black asphalt--should be generating energy for an intelligent national mono-rail system!

We don't need to live next to it. You put it where the people aren't.

Thank you for reinforcing my point that you insist on generating lots more nuclear waste but aren't willing to live with the consequences. Typical Republicanism.

It is that simple, and you are that stupid for not knowing it.

No, it isn't that simple -- again, we've had 50 years to come up with a decent long-term solution, and haven't yet -- and your constant oversimplification reveals either a deep misunderstanding of the problem, deep dishonesty or both. For one thing, "put[ting] it where the people aren't" is of no value if radioactivity escapes into the air or water.

Secondly, I note that you evaded my question as to whether you're willing to have nuclear waste transported next to your home or school. One can only assume that, once again, typically Republican, you want the benefits of public policy while pushing the costs off onto future generations.

All that waste in one sport where it can be continuously monitored and controlled, and those controls improved upon while our technology grows

Thanks for admitting that the current technology iosn't up to the task. But then, we knew that already.

is better than dumping billions of tons of carbon waste into the atmosphere where it really is the genie let out of the bottle.

Careful, there, Mike -- the dishoenst Republican talking point is that carbon is no problem. you'll lose your McCain Bullshit Trolling points!

In any case, no, you haven't established at all that generating hundreds of more times of radioactive waste is a better solution when others exist.

Global warming that changes the climate foever or nuclear waste the is centrally stored and monitored. You decide. Looks like you already did. Better buy an air conditioner.

False equivalence, straw man and dishonest characterization duly noted, Mike. Shame on you for your bad faith argumentation.

Where's are the senior democratic leadership leading to the front on this one, other than to hold NIMBY signs at an anti-wind farm protest? I would expect you to be up in arms about it. Your silence speaks volumes.

No sale, Mike. Leaving aside the dishonesty of "your silence speaks volumes" about an off-subject topic, bringing in the Democratic leadership simply does nto support your charges of hypocricy on my part. That dog won't hunt, and you're being dishonest again as usual.

It's quite simple, Mike. My offer stands: If your butt is willing to cash the check your mouth writes -- if you volunteer to live with the hazards of nuclear power right next to you and your family -- then your argument can be taken seriously. That'd be a refreshing change for you, wouldn't it?

And a black man standing before an electorate with centuries of racist proclivities is nothing short of courageous.
Posted by: Sparko

It certainly was worth taking a long pause on...I wonder how much of the rest of the world watched.

It's quite simple, Mike. My offer stands: If your butt is willing to cash the check your mouth writes -- if you volunteer to live with the hazards of nuclear power right next to you and your family -- then your argument can be taken seriously. That'd be a refreshing change for you, wouldn't it?
Posted by: Gregory

I AM living in the vicinity of a nuclear power plant that is storing RIGHT NOW nuclear waste, you miserable $%^-ing moron. And I'm NOT standing in the streets with my NIMBY signs like your liberal overlords on Nantucket are while they wage their desperate fight against clean, renewable wind energy.

I AM living in the vicinity of a nuclear power plant that is storing RIGHT NOW nuclear waste

Good.

But you don't sound too happy with the situation, Mike. That's a little odd, considering how confident you were sounding about the safety of nuclear power and storing nuclear waste in the course of advocating increasing it a hundredfold. Could it be you're uncomfortable with the risks, so you want -- typically Republican! -- to foist them off on someone else while you enjoy the benefit of nuclear power? (I also note once again you don't address the risks inherent in transporting the stuff.)

Or are you fine with it, so we can build another one of the hundreds more you're demanding next to you and your family?

Bottom line: You, Marler, Brick Oven Bill et al are presenting a dishonest case. Safety at nuclear plants is an issue of course, but the cold hard fact is that the problem of nuclear waste is one for which we have no good, safe, long-term solutions for the amount we have *right now,* let alone to handle the hundredfold increase you're contemplating. To present nuclear as a risk-ree alternative is simply dishonest. Of course, you knew that -- the key point for your crowd is that liberals don't like it. And for good reason -- as a matter of advancing your point, that dog won't hunt.

And I'm NOT standing in the streets with my NIMBY signs like your liberal overlords on Nantucket are while they wage their desperate fight against clean, renewable wind energy

What a coincidence; neither am I. Again, Mike, that's a bullshit straw man -- "liberal overlords," indeed! -- that just shows once again that you aren't to be regarded as commenting in good faith.

We obviously have different methods, Mike, but I'm happy we're both working to discredit the consiervative point of view. It's just sad that in your case, it isn't your intention.

But you don't sound too happy with the situation, Mike.

I'm an engineer, Gregory. The process can be improved and made more efficient. Only a moron like you would want to distribute the nuclear waste as widely as possible just for snarky political purposes, thereby costing lots more $$$ in duplicate efforts.

I WAS THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was beyond what words can describe. I will never forget it. I have tons of pictures, but just got home and haven't had a chance to look at them yet. Any pudit that claims the speech was "mostly" well received by the crowd was lying through his or her teeth! What a bunch of crap! I don't know how all the news media could carry on in that roar--I thought the stands would collapse! Up in the top tier where most of the Community Credential attendees were sitting it was just non-stop exhilaration. What an experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm an engineer, Gregory.

Wow...you'd think an engineer would have better criticial thinking faculties than you demonstrate in these forums.

The process can be improved and made more efficient.

And it needs to be, in order to envision a hundredfold increase in the amount of nuclear waste generated under your proposal, or it's a no-go. Glad to see we agree on that.

Only a moron like you would want to distribute the nuclear waste as widely as possible just for snarky political purposes, thereby costing lots more $$$ in duplicate efforts.

Only someone as dishonest as you would call anything I've advocated in this thread distributing nuclear waste. I'm the one pointing out the risks of distributing nuclear waste, Mike -- a topic you have yet to address. Leaving nuclear waste in situ is hardly "distributing" it, even if it is far from an ideal situation. And again, it seems that you're in no hurry to have more nuke plants and nuclear waste in your back yard yourself.

But that's my point, Mike. Your earlier implications to the contrary, we don't have a good, safe, long-term way of storing the nuclear waste we produce right now, let alone an infrastructure capable of handling a hundred times as much. You as much as admit that's the case in this last post. Sure, like a typical Republican, you want the benefits -- nculear power, annoying liberals -- without the costs -- the risks of nuclear waste. But your odious insistence on burdening others with the problem aside, the fact is there is no silver bullet to nuclear waste storage, after 50 years of trying.

If a good solution presents itself, we can talk. As it is, you admit storage of nuclear waste is a problem, and that you don't want to have to deal with it. So your suggestion that nuclear power is the obvious panacea to our energy problems is, as I said, a dog that won't hunt.

That said, my offer stands -- if you nuke advocates are willing to live next door to the nuke plants and waste dumps, I'll agree you're serious. But we all know you aren't.

I'm about to travel, so I'll be away from this thread for a while. Feel free to indlulge in more dishonest misinterpretations of my comments, straw man arguments and general Republican bullshit. Why should it be any different after i'm gone?

And RSM, nuclear plants are dangerous and tempting targets for terrorists. The 100-fold increase in their use would bring about an untenable level of security requirements--this coupled with Gregory's cogent commentary should give us all pause. The myth, to me, is that we don't have viable energy options. The Germans, in North Europe for God's sake!, have shown us the way. We haven't even begun to tap geothermal, wind or solar energy. There was always cheap and wasteful Republican fossil fuels standing in the way. Or Nukes for peace. Nuclear technology may yet solve its own onerous problems, but that is yet another way to push us to the brink of calamity as it stands now.

If a good solution presents itself, we can talk. As it is, you admit storage of nuclear waste is a problem, and that you don't want to have to deal with it.
Posted by: Gregory

It is a problem and I know how to deal with it. Store it in a central location under guard continuously monitored.

McCain is proposing 45 more powerplants. We already have 104 (I think). That is a 50% increase, not "hundred's of times as much". What a bunch of bullshit you're spewing.

You should travel more often.

And RSM, nuclear plants are dangerous and tempting targets for terrorists.

This whole country is full of dangerous and tempting targets for terrorists. Football stadiums, water supplies, levees, tunnels, refineries, skyscrapers, schools, LNG tankers, energy distribution infrastructures (pipelines, powerlines), dams, bridges, mail system, conventional power plants, etc. You just have to protect it in proportion to the risk.