September 4, 2008
WILL MCCAIN CONDEMN BUSH'S INCURSION INTO PAKISTAN?.... This isn't getting too much attention from the political world, but it's worth considering the implications.
Helicopters carried U.S. and Afghan commandos many miles into Pakistan on Wednesday to stage the first U.S. ground attack against a Taliban target inside the country, Pakistani officials said. At least 20 local people died in the raid, according to the officials.
Pakistan filed a formal protest with the U.S. government, which had no comment on what appeared to be a new escalation of U.S. pressure on Taliban and al-Qaeda sanctuaries in Pakistan's mountainous border regions.
Now, in terms of operational details, we obviously don't know much, but it seems as if we're talking about a ground attack on Pakistani soil by U.S. forces. That's a fairly significant development.
But in the context of the presidential campaign, it also touches on one of the more unexpected debates of the year. Barack Obama has said, on multiple occasions, that he supports taking actions against terrorists who flee across the border into Pakistan, if Pakistani officials are unable or unwilling to act. Obama's position is consistent with U.S. policy, which Bush has acted on.
John McCain not only disagrees, he's repeatedly criticized Obama's policy, accusing him of wanting to "bomb our ally." Indeed, McCain recently suggested to CNN's Larry King that he, as president, wouldn't even pursue Osama bin Laden if he slipped past the border because "Pakistan is a sovereign nation."
With that in mind, what, pray tell, does the McCain campaign think of yesterday's strike against the Taliban? If he's consistent -- I know, that's too much to ask -- McCain is presumably offended by this violation of Pakistani sovereignty.
I wonder, though, if the McCain campaign would be willing to say so.
—Steve Benen 11:08 AM
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An actually good "gotcha" question for the debates!
Posted by: Tracer Hand on September 4, 2008 at 11:10 AM | PERMALINK
Hon. Sen. McCain has also said that he wold do the same, but he objects to Hon. Sen. Obama discussing the possibility in public.
Posted by: jhm on September 4, 2008 at 11:11 AM | PERMALINK
I had never thought McCain will become a mirror copy of Bush and his crones. As an independent, I am throwing him out of my choice in November. Bad choice, bad judgement, and please stop lying. I will take Obama any day!
Posted by: Dan on September 4, 2008 at 11:14 AM | PERMALINK
How many box tops did McCain have to save for his phony "foreign policy" street cred?
.
Posted by: Grand Moff Texan on September 4, 2008 at 11:17 AM | PERMALINK
Very interesting timing by Bush. For a long time the US didn't go into Pakistan. Has the situation with the Taliban changed recently or is it that Musharraf's not there and there's a new acting president?
Then there is bin Laden. If the US will go into Pakistan for the Taliban, why not for bin Laden?
Posted by: JJf on September 4, 2008 at 11:20 AM | PERMALINK
Very interesting timing by Bush. For a long time the US didn't go into Pakistan. Has the situation with the Taliban changed recently or is it that Musharraf's not there and there's a new acting president?
Then there is bin Laden. If the US will go into Pakistan for the Taliban, why not for bin Laden?
Posted by: JJF on September 4, 2008 at 11:21 AM | PERMALINK
They must be looking for an October surprise. They know they can't win without one.
Posted by: doubtful on September 4, 2008 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK
Great point Steve. This is exactly the sort of substantive foreign policy debate which needs to be highlighted. McCain is an empty suit and blowhard when it comes to foreign policy. It's all talk that we cannot possibly back up without a war footing and a draft, which he opposes.
Tell the Sunnis and the Shi'a to cut the shit? We're all Georgians now? Threaten, bluster, chest thump, chest thump.
The more Obama can talk about foreign policy, the more he seems like a reasonable yet strong executive and the more McCain looks like an idiot.
Now, I know the R base likes 'em dumb and loud, but I don't think independents will.
Posted by: Buffalonian on September 4, 2008 at 11:25 AM | PERMALINK
"I will take Obama any day!"
Great having you here, Dan!
GO-bama!
Posted by: 60days on September 4, 2008 at 11:26 AM | PERMALINK
I think Bush is looking for Bin Laden and as soon as he's found, he'll be handcuffed to McCain for the duration of the campaign.
Posted by: bcinaz on September 4, 2008 at 11:27 AM | PERMALINK
Hon. Sen. McCain has also said that he wold do the same, but he objects to Hon. Sen. Obama discussing the possibility in public. - jhm
Okay, is there any issue McCain hasn't taken two sides on?
Posted by: Danp on September 4, 2008 at 11:29 AM | PERMALINK
Silly Democrats,
Of COURSE McCain will not support this action by Bush - as everybody knows, The Gates of Hell are located firmly within the borders of Afghanistan.
No wait, they're in Iraq! Wait, where are The Gates of Hell again?
Posted by: neilt on September 4, 2008 at 11:30 AM | PERMALINK
This is why I repeatedly ask the morons who support McCain (and who keep claiming that Palin has more relevant experience than McCain) what he brings to the ticket. Here is a classic example of how McCain knows nothing about foreign policy and national security. It's almost as if the experience of dropping bombs on the heads of innocents doesn't give you insight into the way the world works.
Posted by: the on September 4, 2008 at 11:34 AM | PERMALINK
"With that in mind, what, pray tell, does the McCain campaign think of yesterday's strike against the Taliban?"
Well of course, with his major backers being "bomb-bomb-bombers", "drill-drill-drillers", and "nuke-nuke-nukers" he'll have to agree with it. Most surely this is not the time for the jackass to appear squeamish about a mere incursion.
Posted by: 60days on September 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK
Similar to the Iraqi PM's effective endorsement of Obama's timetable for withdrawal. Or the concept of negotiating with the countries of the Middle East instead of 'bomb bomb Iran.' That Obama... what does he know about foreign policy???
Posted by: KP on September 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK
At this point I can't think of any foreign policy position that Obama has taken, other than opposition to the surge, that Bush hasn't adopted as his own in some way or another. These are all the policies that McCain denounces as lacking in judgement. Sounds to me as though Bush spoke at the wrong convention.
Posted by: majun on September 4, 2008 at 11:37 AM | PERMALINK
It's a different case when they sneak across the border through Iraq than Afganistan, first of all.
Second of all, McCain's staff will get back to you on his position of the thing that just happened.
McCain's staff will also get back to you with a term for what they are calling the action taken by the US Forces. Attack is such a broad term and it is offensive to describe our patriotic troops. As a POW, he knows what an attack is. That was more of an inopportune saunter through the hills.
Posted by: amy on September 4, 2008 at 11:41 AM | PERMALINK
Wait, where are The Gates of Hell again?
For the most direct route, follow Cheney when he dies.
Posted by: Danp on September 4, 2008 at 11:44 AM | PERMALINK
I think McCain likes bombing more than he doesn't like hypocrisy. In fact in general Republicans don't worry nearly as much about hypocrisy as we think they should.
That's Just What I Said
Posted by: Dale on September 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK
You mean that American troops have never to this point set foot on Pakistani soil? I find that very hard to believe.
Posted by: Halfdan on September 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM | PERMALINK
This looks like a job for....the Alaska National Guard!
Posted by: Stefan on September 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM | PERMALINK
"If he's consistent..."
as tweety occationally erupts, "HA!"
Posted by: mellowjohn on September 4, 2008 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK
Screw both the candidates. The US should stay out of Pakistan. A US military incursion into Pakistan forces Pakistanis to defend their homeland. If the only Pakistanis to make that defense are insurgents (terrorists in American nomenclature) then that undermines the authority of the legitimate Pakistani government and increases the likelihood of more destabilizing violence.
Posted by: Brojo on September 4, 2008 at 11:55 AM | PERMALINK
Flip-Flop #76?
I swear I've reached the fragged edges of my personal memory to recall anyone, anyone at all I've known who changes opinions so frequently. Maybe a few 4 year olds. Then there's dementia.
Can't find a-one. Can you imagine trying to coordinate a simple picnic Pops McCain?
Picnic 2007: "Where's the baked beans? I wanted baked beans, you ignorant slut!"
Picnic 2008: "Why baked beans?!? I hate beans!"
Posted by: MsMuddler on September 4, 2008 at 12:01 PM | PERMALINK
Along with better blogger such as Juan Cole, I've condemned both candidates for wanting to insert more troops into Afghanistan after the current/new govt earlier this year gave a flat no to any "hot pursuit" ideas.
Posted by: SocraticGadfly on September 4, 2008 at 12:13 PM | PERMALINK
My prediction? McCain will break out a little ditty at a presser and sing, "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Pakistan".
Of course McCain wont condemn the incursion. If anything, he will condemn the incursion for not being forceful enough! He will decry the total lack of heavy aerial bombardment. There are women and children all over the place in Pakistan! Juicy bombing targets!
Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on September 4, 2008 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK
Don't hold your breath. The press never calls the Republicans out for inconsistency.
Posted by: Joe Buck on September 4, 2008 at 12:30 PM | PERMALINK
Will anybody condemn Cheney's saber-rattling in the Caucasus? Both Clinton and Bush enraged Russia with NATO expansion into their back yard. Re-arming Georgia and placing our fleet in the Black Sea will hurt us more than them. Obama and McCain, please take note.
We need to cooperate with these guys over energy, terror, and a lot more. Are we ready to go down in flames because we only want things our way? ("full spectrum dominance") I hope not.
Posted by: Dr.Wu, the last of the big-time thinkers on September 4, 2008 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK
I wonder if the military genius McCain knows it isn't the Khmer Rouge or Idi Amin we're trying to find in Pakistan (or where ever in the world AQ is).
There are connections between American politics, economics and the world. How can McCain who doesn't understand how the economy works understand how we should relate to the world?
The housing crisis is/has spread to the world. I read yesterday a bbc article saying you could buy a Sicilian villa for 1.44 Euro, just like the houses in Detroit going for 1 Dollar. Could Senator McCain wrap his head around the connections and possible solutions to such problems? It surely isn't the military!
Posted by: MarkH on September 4, 2008 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINK
About freaking time. Actually - too little, too late.
If you ask me, we should have attacked Pakistan on September 12, 2001. The ISI created the Taliban as a proxy through which to attack the US, and placate radical elements within Pakistan. Bush coddled Mushtarraf and his cronies, because 9/11, and the war, has been very profitable for Bush and his allies in both the US defense and energy industries.
Pakistan is, and was always the actual source of the threat. Afghanistan was a red herring, and Iraq was just a big WTF?! - and we considered them our ALLIES? Mushy ran Pakistan (and Afghanistan) through bribery of warlords and religious radicals. Pakistan is the greatest terrorist state. And it is Osama bin Laden's safe haven. Bush let him escape there, because without this safe haven, he would not have a justification for his war, and his destruction of our civil liberties.
Bush is NOW attacking Pakistan, because he wants to provide bin Laden's head as a gift for McCain's upcoming (s)election, and McCain will use it as justification for his invasion of Iran(q).
Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on September 4, 2008 at 3:52 PM | PERMALINK
We are ALL Pakistanis now!
Posted by: dzman on September 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK
McCain:"Gates of Hell"?
"I'll get back to you on that".
"I need to find out what my position is on that".
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