Steve, please.

This was an unfair line of attack when it was pointed at Barack Obama, and it equally so now. I would vote in favor of leaving people's faith alone.

Yeah, it's a sidelight.

I'd prefer a line of opposition that never relented from highlighting Palin as an evolution denialist.

Do people care? Judging by the Schiavo incident, when pushed, people recoil at pure fundie wingnuttery of the Palin variety.

Sometimes my questions seem to go way off course, so here is one re: converting homosexuals to heterosexuals. Since sex outside of marriage is considered a sin, how does one know when the homo is converted to hetero? When he/she gets married and "demonstrates" his/her sexual orientation? I have heard that in the conversion process, porn is used. I thought porn was an abomination to the Lord. So, how does it work to use it while condemning it? Is conversion to a hetero life more important than protecting us from the porn industry? Are they purchasing porn for their process, or creating their own, so as not to profit the porn industry? What are the statistics showing the success of the conversion process? Can the Logcabin Republicans really accept this BS approach to their lifestyle? Or are the conservative 'principles' of the R Party more compelling than the condemnation of their sexual orientation?

Any comments?
peace,
st john

Nothing would stop Log Cabin Republicans from voting Republican.

Oh, he was a GUEST pastor. That explains why, when she heard this dreck, she couldn't get up and walk out.

In politics rules are very strange things.

You play the game different at left and right wing.

Whatever the liberals do is fair game.

But attacking conservatives causes outrage and shame.

The more I hear about Mrs. Palin and her way of thinking, the more I want to go to the bathroom and pay homage to the "porcelain God". "Jews for Jesus"? Seriously? Is she really that ignorant that she can't respect other people's religion? And converting homosexuals? I was raised a Catholic, but I think it is wrong to incorporate church and state together. Lasseiz-faire.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that most people hear a lot of stuff in church that they don't necessarily agree with. They take the parts they like and leave the rest.

However, I do want the trolls who insist that Rev. Wright's words are a window into Obama's motives and beliefs to explain why Rev. Kroon's words are not a window into Palin's motives and beliefs. Either both of them agree with everything their pastor says, which makes them scary black nationalists/rabid right-wing haters or neither one of them is responsible for what their pastor says.

Can't have it both ways, trolls, so you're gonna need to pick one. Either what someone's longtime pastor says is completely relevant and needs to be closely examined, or it isn't. You don't get to decide that one is a scary black man and the other is a nice white man, so only the scary black man's words need to be examined.

The first comment has it wrong. Palin's religion shouldn't be the centerpiece of the Democratic campaign, but people need to know what kind of ayatollahs the Republicans are running for office.

I read comments every day from voters who say that they are voting against Obama for no reason other than Rev. Wright. They may or may not be telling the truth, but the Rev. Wright controversy was incredibly damaging to Obama.

It's distasteful and silly, but we've got to fight fire with fire.

Steve, I'm missing your once-regular "This Week in God" Saturday post. I know that things have been busy with the conventions and Palin and all, but I hope that TWIG returns soon.

i'm beginning to think that there really *should* be a religious test for holding public office: if you want to govern according to the tenets of your religion – and force everybody to act as you believe they should act according to those tenets – you should be disqualified from ever holding public office!

"...can't respect other people's religion?"

katie, according to many (most?) fundies, other people don't have religions. they have false religions.

I read comments every day from voters who say that they are voting against Obama for no reason other than Rev. Wright

Okie - I'm guessing those comments are from people who wouldn't be persuaded by this article in the least. People who want to believe the world is flat merely call it common sense.

I personally thought the attacks on Obama based on Rev. Wright were also uncalled for, but since the right-wingnuts put it out on the table as an assessment of "character," then let's go...

The whole JFJ thing isn't something pulled out for a 10-second sound bite over a 30-year pastoral mission. This was TWO WEEKS ago! (You'd think it would be fresh in Palin's mind.)

As regards it was a "guest" who spoke, two points. Here's what the pastor of Palin's church, Rev. Kroon, said: "Our connection with them probably goes back to the 1970s when I first heard a music group from Jews for Jesus called 'The Liberated Wailing Wall"'in Seattle, Washington. And they had an impact on my life. They're one of the reasons I'm a pastor now." So you have the whole JFJ thing being something as a basic influence on Palin's pastor. Second, this was not the first time that Kroon had spoken there; he was invited back.

And if her church is like any I've been to, the thought of ANY guest preaching from the pulpit is published weeks in advance of the date. So Palin, assuming she's a "regular", would (a) possibly have heard Kroon before, (b) would know his topic and perspective, and therefore (c) could make her own decision about showing up. She didn't have to walk out; should could have just not been there. Yet she was.

This woman has a worldview that I wouldn't want as a mayor of a small town, let alone governor. The thought of her in the White House is very scary.

mellowjohn:
As correct as your statement is (I do not believe in Hinduism, Islam, or any other religion), the government does not have a religion. If McCain/Palin are serious about their campaign, they have no right to impose their religion on others. People believe different things. If you think that your god(s) and religion is the only one, that doesn't give a right to ignore other people. Yes, I'm a Catholic, and I don't think any other religion is "right". But does that mean I'll force a person of the Jewish faith to eat pork? Heck no! That's disrespectful and ignorant. That's the point I was trying to make in my first comment.

There are things that will stick: troopergate, bridge to nowhere, putting Wasilla $20M in the red, pastor and there are things that won't stick: daughter, AIP (except through husband), won't meet the press, etc,

The task at hand is keeping the focus on McCain and his choice of Palin in the news through her negatives, without hitting Palin directly.

Maybe Palin will take this opportunity to speak to America about race and where her white pastor's anger comes from.

I would also like to know why John McCain didn't wear a flag pin for his acceptance speech. Isn't that supposed to be another pressing "issue" of the day?

Apropos of nothing else, does anyone have any idea about which books the good Ms. Palin wanted banned from their local library?

Sorry to those of you who feel that this shouldn't be discussed. The GOP opened that door and the horse is long gone. People think poorly of Obama because of Wright. Wright looks like the pope compared to these nuts!

This is not only fair game, it is in the interest of national security and the security of each American to live their lives FREELY - free from the major influences of religion - and religion is what drives her policies.

This is absolutely not just fair game but something that the voting public needs, and deserves, to know.

But if the political world considers Jeremiah Wright a major issue, then Palin's pastors should also draw at least some scrutiny. -- CB

In the rational, representative democracy that we thought was America, you would be correct. I think Palin's speech the other night may have dropped the lid on its coffin.

Modern conservatism doesn't intend to share power ever again, and hasn't for some time. (See demonization of Carter, impeachment of Clinton, the K-Street Project, obstruction in this Congress, etc.)

The old rules that governed society and politics are no longer observed. They've created new rules, new refs, and in the process a new game in which they are always favored.

Wow! Will her church became part of the campaign? What else is in her religious closet? -Kevo

My concern is that she, taking advice from the GOP and those manipulating the McCain campaign to this point, retreats from her earlier positions.

Particularly whether the Iraq conflict is a "task from God." I would certainly imagine she would, the country is nearly unanimously in favor of withdrawal and God's position on the matter is, well, I would think unknown to everyone except Palin and Bush.

"You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality," according to the insert...

Why did their "infallible" god make homosexuals in the first place?

So, let me get this straight, we're supposed to ignore the fact that SP believes: the Iraq War is god's will, that Alaska would be better off as it's own country (just how patriotic is that anyway????),
that abortion should be outlawed along with birth control, that homosexuals are weird and need major prayer?

If we are to nix religion from the debate, then JM better get his story straight about the "cross" in the yard by one of his captors.

It's one thing to wear your religion on your sleeve, but a different beast entirely if it's used as a political ploy.

For too many years the christian anti-science folks have ruled the roost.

Now it's time for us to crow about the utter creepiness of their shenanigans.

For that matter, maybe it's time atheists step forward and set everyone straight! (not sexually.. just intellectually)

This is STUPID!!! All it does is bring back Reverend Wright. Steve, get a clue!!

This kind of thing won't stick.

Democrats are already disgusted enough.

The evangelical base probably agree that Jews are going to Hell anyway so there's nothing really distasteful about anything possibly anti-Semitic here. I do know a lot of Jews who support McCain, sadly, because he is tough on Israel and they think Obama isn't. But this is not enough to convert votes.

My guess is Palin has very little respect for Jews but will keep her mouth shut to get their votes. Fortunately the gay vote should go 99% Obama.

This issue is pretty irrelevant compared to Troopergate, earmarks, censorship and her other lies.

Sarah Palin has called Barack Obama "sambo" and called Hillary Clinton "the bitch" in public. She refers to the aboriginal people of Alaska as "arctic Arabs" and "f***king eskimos".

You are surprised that she is not squeamish about a little anti-Semitism? A little gay-bashing?

Spiritually speaking, Sarah Palin is a vicious, hateful thug, and her "spiritual leaders" are Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

Further comment...by how many points are people that bring this up actually hoping to lose by? 3? 5? 10?
Is this going to change ONE swing voter's mind when it reactivates the Wright arguments? Republicans will thank you thousands of times over every time this gets mentioned. This is, to put it politely, an exercise in self-satisfaction...

OT - Watching Palin on the stump in reddest Colorado Springs, Colorado.

She's reading from a script. Hardly making eye-contact. Strident, but mechanical.

EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH AND HELP SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THIS VIDEO.

Very Creepy promotional video for a Wasilla Assembly of God entitled Master's Commission (whatever the hell that means)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJnhRhJW35o

When you watch this video REMEMBER...this was Sarah Palin's church for nearly her entire life.

The man with in the leather jacket donning a goatee was Sarah Palin's pastor from 1999 till 2002.

She continues to have close ties to this church and is involved with workshops there.

One would like to see a more level political playing field in our sad, embarrassing spectacle called a presidential campaign. In the good old days when polticians made a point of saying religion was a private matter a candidate's religion was more the subject of rumor and quiet prejudice than headlines. Unlike now.

If the Rev. Wright is fair game in Obama's case, then the looneytoon fundies In Palin's case should be as well. We know, of course, such fairness is rather unlikely. There is no problem attacking a liberal Protestant sect, but we have to be respectful of the fundies because they are, um, entitled. Her previous association with the Assembly of God Pentecostals should also not escape examination. There is hardly a more bigoted and delusional bunch, nor one that believes more that the whole world should believe and behave as they do.

The Log Cabin Syrup Republicans are a pathetic bunch. They barely broke with Bush in 2004, and he can be considered a moderate on gay issues. After all Cheney does have a gay daughter. What they will do with Palin will be fun to watch. I have often wondered what it would take, finally, for the Log Cabin types to say enough! If it isn't Palin then they are masochists through and through, or just demented.

Unfortunately, I suspect the supreme hypocrisy that characterizes Roverian campagns will probably keep Palin out of the limelight as much as possible, and claim that her religious beliefs and affiliations are off-limits. Just as her daughters's out-of-wedlock pregnancy is considered a private matter even though Palin believes not only in abstinence-only sex education, but prefers NO sex education at all. I happen to think both religion and the sex lives of candidates' children is off-limits, but not when hypocrisy is at the center of both.

One would like to hope that the country is not so far gone as to embrace a Sarah Palin. Not only is she completely unqualified to be VP, she is a triumph of anti-intellectualism and know-nothingness. We have already had eight years of celebrating stupidity and ignorance, and having the federal government turned into a propaganda machine for right-wing ideology. Can anyone even imagine what a small-minded, mean-spirited opportunist like Palin would do either as VP or, may Allah protect us, as president?

Palin is Chuck Hagee in a dress, guys. Only this time McCain can't run away from her. Oops.

Palin isn't Hagee, she is Mike Huckabee with lipstick and high heels.

But more to the point, I think I will gather together a bunch of atheists and have them pray to convert all of Palin's church members. That would make about as much sense as trying to pass Palin off as ready to take command.

Fasten your seatbelts it's gonna be a bumpy campaign

Going to their trough isn't a good idea.

Now she's at a different rally, without her nose in a script. Same speech. Must be teleprompter.

pastors of almost all churches say nutty things because a huge portion of religion is just nutty.

I can't see how this looks any worse than Palin's own words conflating the US's opening a can of whoop ass on Iraq with God's Plan. Bush, guided by the "higher father", may have also believed this as he lead the US to war. The more I look at this whole thing, McCain and Palin both share some similarities with GW. McCain and Palin as a mixture are morphing into an image of GW. Alarming.

The word "evil" has become a GOP and their Christian proxy favorite. I wonder how many times the Republicans have used the word as compared to the Democrats in speeches? It is a strong, charged word and the GOP uses it for a reason. It is a word associated with Satan, immorality, wickedness, sin, and bad character. It deeply incites and riles the faithful. Moreover, the GOP is very good at conflating the term and its nefarious meaning with the Democrats and what the Democrats stand for. Thus conflated, the faithful see the Democrats as a threat to their very existence. It makes rational discussion or action impossible because the faithful are afraid and like a mob. I look for the GOP to use this word over and over. I see a difference between Obama inspiring people to action with his words and the GOP and their proxy Christians riling people to action with their words. Along with their use of the word "evil" are words and tone of utter contempt for those who disagree or choose a different belief. It is in this type of encouraging and enabling environment that wing nuts on the right feel free to do anything to defeat the a force they perceive to be evil.

Those assholes would be better off holding a seminar on how to keep teens from getting pregnant.

I'm going to guess the members of WBC don't know a lot of gays and lesbians so these pinheads get on their knees and pray for ... what?

"Dear God please make some people I don't know stop ignoring Your rules because they're icky and bad. Now I have to go, my wife is out of town and I want to try out my new wetsuit and pet goat, amen."

Pink Boas for Palin!

Snark

Why did their "infallible" god make homosexuals in the first place?

To tempt the pastors, of course.....

Pink Boas for Palin!

Snark

Yes and diet cigarettes and consumable undergarments. The cure gay churchies are some of their most extraordinarily stupid, then again this is a church that believes spewing gobbley-gook is speaking in tongues and convulsing on the floor is a normal "religious" experience. As a gay male I must say Fuck Sarah Palin and the Republicans, fuck them all right in the ear!

I am completely saddened by the whole Jeremiah Wright episode. And Bruce, this issue will resurface regardless. The wingers will make sure of that. In fact, O'Reilly claims that another of his interview bits with Obama to be shown this coming week covers Wright.

Anyhow, for what saddens me... that except for a few pretty out-there claims, most of what Wright has said is true. Unfortunately, Wright is a preacher who cannot hide his feelings or outrage, so that when those kinds of clips were used against him in the never-ending video circus, he pretty much lost all credibility... except for those of us who went directly to the source documentation to read and understand the CONTEXT of what he said. Wright challenges all of us to re-think our mindset.

That said, I hope Wright will remain out of sight until after the election. It's obvious that too many people in this country are incapable of thinking for themselves. Very unfortunate.

Just a quick explanation of Wright's G-D America quote for any interested:

In his Sermon on the Mount, in fact all throughout his life, Jesus commanded his followers to take care of the least of these: the poor, the oppressed, etc. When people or their governments do not do so, they are damned. In his sermon, these points were the lead up to Wright's exhortation "God Bless America? No no no. God Damn America! It's in the Bible."

Is he correct from a Biblical standpoint? Yes. The way he phrased it is just very off-putting to most people*, unfortunately, and no explanation will sooth them. Too bad, really.

* Most of whom are Christians and put their patriotism ahead of their faith

As a gay male I must say Fuck Sarah Palin and the Republicans, fuck them all right in the ear!

Careful Mommie Dearest. You'll be mobbed by RePubican hypocrites begging you to work them over with a wire hanger.

The McCain campaign emphasized the fact that Brickner is not the church's usual pastor, and was just an invited guest. -- Steve Benen

So was Rev Pfleger a guest speaker in Wright's church. Yet, for a while, you'd have thought that Wright and Pfleger were Siamese twins joined at the tongue, and that both were programming every thought Obama ever had (or, maybe, vice versa).

As a Christian, I am appalled at any "turn gay people straight" type of programs which cause so much harm and are pointless. God made us who we are and loves us as we are.

And I have many brothers and sisters in the faith (some of whom are gays and lesbians) who believe likewise.

Just wanted to get that out there... thanks.

But what about the Gay-Jews? Does combining them cancel the prayers or make them stronger? Kryptonite or Synergy?

Specially Selected Fundies endure the unspeakable horror of watching countless hours of the filthiest, most degenerate examples of sadistic, bestial, salacious and sometimes even snuff porn, so we don't have to.

The rest of the campaign should be spent asking McCain whether he agrees with Palin's whacked out views on education (creationism) and religion (praying gays straight). If he doesn't, why did he choose her? If he does, he's an idiot.

Steve Benen wrote: "The McCain campaign emphasized the fact that Brickner is not the church's usual pastor, and was just an invited guest."

Sarah Palin's "usual pastor" at Wasilla Bible Church, Larry Kroon, said in a July 20, 2008 sermon:

We’re talking about the whole timeframe of the end, when God begins to bring closure to the world as we know it ... that great day of the Lord when God will finally bring closure to human history ... it is a day of wrath ... He is gonna deal with all the inhabitants of the earth. He is gonna strike out His hand against, yes, Wasilla; and Alaska; and the United States of America. There’s no exceptions here ... So, how’s God going to do this? It’s gonna be by His intense anger ..."

Sarah Palin's "usual pastor" at Wasilla Bible Church, Larry Kroon, said in a July 13, 2008 sermon:

"It's so very possible that God, instead of responding by granting spiritual renewal and sustained prosperity, could ... raise up a revived, prosperous and powerful Communist Russia with a web of alliances across the Middle East. And our gas pumps would go dry. The dollar would collapse. And the markets would crash ... it could happen in a matter of weeks. That could happen. It could happen by this fall."

Max Blumenthal at The Nation has the links.

Sarah Palin herself delivered a sermon at her previous church, the Pentecostal Wasilla Assembly of God, in which she asserted that the US invasion and occupation of Iraq was a "task from God" and that construction of a natural gas pipeline that she pushed for is "part of God's plan."

It is not at all surprising that both Palin and her "usual pastor" would welcome the ravings of a demented bigot who believes that terrorist murders of innocent civilians are "God's judgment".

This will be a good test of MSM credibility, to see if it goes past Stewart and Colbert.
In any case, I'm itching to see Tina Fey on 9/13!

I am just waiting for the calls for her to denounce and reject the pastor and the guest pastor. Turnabout being fair play, that is.

Osama Von McIntyre, or, should I call you Mike Dukakis or John Kerry, it's time to get shit or get off the pot.

My riff on Clauswitz still stands:
Politics is war by other means.
Clinton-Carville had a War Room. Dems before and after had a "rapid response team."

That said, this also shows just how much Jewish neocons like Joementum are getting hoist by their own petard when it comes to, ahem, for quoting Pat Buchanan, "their amen corner support."

Django:

As I blogged this spring, Schiavo is also a reason not to vote for Nader.

Apparently Ms Palin also believes that you can pray away the gay...

"Sarah Palin's church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into hetrosexuals throught the power of prayer."

"You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality"

This is all according to the insert in teh bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed for six years.

I believe further scrutiny should be applied to Palin and her church - you know, just as it was for Obama. If you apply the republicans Obama/Wright standard, she agree's with everything that her pastor says. All's fair. This kind of nuttiness needs to be exposed.

I had someone tell me that if Obama/Biden wins, the end of the world is very near.............seriously!? These people are just plain crazy. Problem is, there are so many of them.

Any Log Cabin Republicans still supporting Palin, who now is clearly defending the idea they're "less than"?

All you need to know about this Palin bitch is that she believes that our soldiers are in Iraq "doing the lord's work".

She is an End Timer/Rapturist nutsack. Period. And an Armageddon seeker.

The up side of this could be that the Rethugs have lost most of the Jewish vote, except those of the neo-con persuasion.

You people are unbelievable. Where does all this hate come from. The mention of God makes you sick. God is good and God is love. Open your eyes and get out of your darkness. Jesus Christ first came to the Jews to give the good news of salvation (then to the gentiles). All of his 12 apostles were jews. Jews for Jesus is motivated by love for the jewish people and preservation of Israel. God does have a plan for this old world whether we like it or not, we will all know the truth one day. Please don't condemn those who believe as Jesus said of himself "I am the way, the truth, and the life". I would not try to force anyone to believe nor worship unless it is sincere as that would be hypocritical. Just give those who choose to do so the respect and freedom to practice their religion as is our constitutional right. Even elected officials have this right, wouldn't you agree.

No-one seems to have noticed the unbelievable condescension in the use of the possessive by JFJ's Mission Statement:

"to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide."

What’s this with the possessive “our,� eh?

Is it meant to suggest, for example, “We just love all of “our� very special possessions [the house servants]�...?

That use of the possessive gives me the creeps.

And by the way, Art Smith a 1:21 pm gets it exactly right - as in nearly the same same argument that Hillary [and thus, the Republican party] used against Obama who was on notice and thus should not have attended for X years. In this case, Palin was presumably on notice as well; she could easily "make her own decision about showing up. She didn't have to walk out; should could have just not been there. Yet she was." Well said, Art.