As long as by "odd" you mean "ready to pull out what's left of my hair."

The simplest explanation is that, after 19 months of the Obama show, "voters" (read:consumers) were looking for some new entertainment.

The question is whether Palin gets boring in the next ~1300 hours. It's going to be close.

It is exceedingly sad.

Some day someone will write a meaningful explanation of how it came about that the U.S. population evolved into an organism incapable of serious critical thought.

No, it's sad, but it's all about projected image now.

Lies don't matter.

The Republican candidates are issue-proof.

The population of your country , in general, is one of the most stupid in the entire world. Fucking stupid.

Substitute the name 'Palin' with 'Hillary'.

Think the poll stays the same?

The American political landscape is exceedingly odd right now, isn't it?

Er ... Welcome to America.

We have seen the enemy and the enemy is us.

well, blue, i suppose i ought to be insulted by that remark.

but i'm not.

cause it's true.

where can we all move to if mcpalin wins this thing?

orange

It's one of the hidden tenets of neo-conservatism, via Leo Strauss, that the mass of men are idiots, unfit to choose their leaders, and deserve -- even need -- to be lied to.

Look around at the American political landscape today and ask yourselves honestly, "Are they wrong?"

They aren't wrong.

After that, it becomes a question of "Do I join them?" Personally, I think Robinson Jeffers had it right in "Shine, Perishing Republic"

While this America settles in the mould of its vulgarity,
heavily thickening to empire
And protest,
only a bubble in the molten mass,
pops and sighs out, and the mass hardens,
I sadly smiling remember that the flower fades to make fruit,
the fruit rots to make earth.

[...]

But for my children, I would have them keep their distance from the thickening center; corruption
Never has been compulsory

[...]

The American public is, to put it bluntly, dumb as a post.

I think that there are three possible criteria that voters bring to decisions making:

1. Fashion statement
2. Identity
3. Qualifications

1 is the "wow, that's hip/cool/new" notion. Some early Obama supporters were in that camp. It's the candidate as rock star notion.

2. is what Pallin is gaining from now. "I'm a dope, and I want a dope just like me running wars and trillions of dollars and s***."

3. is what us readers want. Wow, the president selects people, has to balance issues, has to have a vision, let's see who can do that best.

I suspect no more than about 10% of the US is in category 3.

It's about time for an ad that says McCain will re-instate the draft. Show it during game shows and soaps.

orange

I think Vermonter is right. The "voters" are basically channel-surfing now; Obama has become "so four months ago," and Mrs. Spunky Hockey Mom is new and fresh.

The whole thing makes me physically ill. To see the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who called Obama an "empty suit" swooning over this scripted nonentity has me depressed and nauseous.

Joe Biden said the GOP can't keep her sequestered forever ... but I think they'll try anyway. And watch for a suspicious rectangular bulge on her back during the VP debate.

After a seemly endless primary and vetting of Obama, people were saying they still didn't know who he was. After 4 days, they knew enough about Palin to stop asking questions.

One hates to jump to conclusions, but the obvious sort of bites you on the nose, doesn't it?

Stop reading polls!

Or at least stop reading into them. If you look at the article, it says that "45% percent saying [the questioning] is because she's a woman". In other words, they're not saying questioning experience is bad, but they perceive this round of questioning as inappropriate or harsher than men receive.

What should we expect from a news channel that hires people like Betty Nguyen, Wolf Blitzer, Cooper Anderson, Don Lemon, and Rich Sanchez, while keeping Larry King in prime time?

DON'T.GIVE.UP.

That's what they want you to do!!

FIGHT NOW, MORE THAN EVER!!

And if we don't win, it won't be because we didn't keep trying till the end.

Odd? I'd say fucked up, but then I'm a dirty fucking hippie.

Anybody wanna march on the media outlets? I know from experience that crowds look good around the CNN building in Hollywood.

Someone mentioned this in another thread, but we really are approaching some Idiocracy type shit here.

If you want to, you can always find stories, quotes and polls that will make you fear for the republic, but that's actually kind of sutnning.

I'm sorry, but I don't find this turn of events odd at all. In fact -- and I'm a fan in all respects -- I think you and most others on the left have been naive about this point for a long time.

We don't really take the job of President seriously as a job. It's more of a Rorshach test about how we want to see ourselves as a nation -- like we're casting the part of a personality or celebrity to be our brand for the next four years. And no, I'm not kidding.

George Bush got elected in large part because people 'felt like they could have a beer with him', where Al Gore was 'too smart'. Translation: nobody gives a shit about how prepared a person is to be president, they just want to feel good about the picture hanging on the wall.

(And you can probably trace much of this to the influence of TV on the Nixon/Kenneday debates. Pretty people take pretty pictures, and images dominate our politics, so it's likely that we'll have more bimbo Presidents in the years to come.)

This isn't a new joke, it's an old joke, and the main reason I have nothing to do with politics now. John Kerry beat George Bush in all three debates in 2004, and Kerry was right or has been proven right on every policy issue. Even Obama's campaign owes most of its policy positions to Kerry's campaign, yet here we are again, comparing Obama's black skin to John McCain's celebrated and trademarked grin.

One of these days, Steve, you and the rest of the left-wing commentators are going to wake up and realize that America isn't a smart nation, and that we actually get the Presidents we deserve. America deserves the past eight years, and in particular the last four. And if we elect McCain, we'll deserve that abuse, too.

My wife and I were talking last night after the ABC segment about potential white women voters flocking to support Palin, but having little to no knowledge or opinion on her policies. My wife was saying that its a huge double standard just because Palin is an attractive woman. I know a lot has been said here and other places about Hillary's cleavage, etc. but it furthers the point that this support for Palin is purely based on superficial (looks vs ideas) reasons. The other side of this is the growing negative focus on Obama's looks (a black man) and how that's a negative (or perceived negative).

heh - While reading this post (and sipping on my second coffee - the nightcap with the lovely lady went a bit later than anticipated..yawn) I quite literally scratched my head trying to figure it out!

p.s. Just Bill - I have a spare couch in Toronto, I'm sure the girlfriend won't mind if I let a few hundred of my favourite yanks crash for a few weeks :D

I really think there are several possible explanations for this. First, of course, is that Palin is a hottie. Call me sexist if you like, but the idea that alotsa men think with their 'nads has been long been considered an undisputed fact. Also, people might answer a different question than the one that's actually being asked if they've recently been thinking about perceived unfairness...that is, we shouldn't ask the pretty girl about her experience because (they've been led to believe) everybody's been picking on her about her daughter. This survey is only surprising if you think that this sort of survey ought to reflect something rational and scientific, but they hardly ever do.

You have a population that is essentially saying 'yes, lie to me for i want to believe the lies, the smears, the propaganda, all that i know to be untrue i want to believe is true', yes, give more money back to rich people and make me poorer because of, 'yes, give more tax breaks to the corporations even though 95 percent pay no taxes now, yes, give 4 billion more back to the oil companies even as they make record breaking profits, yes, let's destroy the environment even more .. and so on. your country is a country in which 30 percent of your population is not just fat or overweight, but fucking OBESE. and another 40 percent is fat or over weight. a population in which 30 percent cant' even find your own country on a world map, and another 63 percent that cant' find iraq after all these years of an illegal war that has mained 40,000 of your citizens, killed over 4,000, cost you almost a trillon dollars, not to mention the hundreds of thousands dead in iraq itself, a population that uses 25 percent of all oil resources, and emits over 25 percent of all toxins into our global atmosphere. a country in which you pay your corporate owned journalists like brian williams 15 million a year and yet your teachers, the teachers of your kids for god's sake, make about 30,000 a year. one out of ten of your citizens are in prison, and you have the highest crime and murder rate of any country. one out of ten live in total poverty. 45 million have zero health insurance while your doctors make make millions, and the health insurance industry makes trillions. and 70 million have 'insurance' that is worthless. all at the same time of passing laws against feeding homeless people that have been made homeless because of your out of control capitalism .. called pure fucking greed. and because of this total fucking greed your country is now possibly causing a total global economic meltdown. and finally, when you have a change to elect someone who offers real hope, real change, turning it all around again, a person who is sane and honest and offers actual policies instead of lies and deceit that your corporate media glorifies, your stupid country and the corporations that own it try to destroy him. the whole world, the vast majority, wants this man to be president in order for america to be great again, to be what is has always been: a beacon of hope to the whole world. yet only in your stupid country , yours alone, that resists this global need, the need of your own country. so it now becomes possible that a relative small minority of people in your country can then counteract the will and need of the world population for this new leader called obama that can change everything. what does that say about your country: IT IS FUCKING STUPID. and a menace to the rest of the world.

George Bush got elected in large part because people 'felt like they could have a beer with him', where Al Gore was 'too smart'.

Like Rob Riggle said:

"I want a leader I can relate to... like me. Or worse."

I think the main explanation for this is that awe have become a nation where 51% of the people who vote are either clowns or have the mental and emotional capacity of an 8-year-old.

Having identified the problem, I am not sure how this can be fixed, or if there is a solution.

Bad Question -> Bad Answer

They should have asked: "Should voters consider a candidate's qualifications when deciding how to vote?"

So now we are not even permitted to question a candidate's experience.This is not politics- this is some sort of mass exercise in S&M. After years of abuse, each party has internalized its roles and acts out the drama.

As Capt.Beefheart said, "There'd be no game brother, if no one would play"

1 is the "wow, that's hip/cool/new" notion. Some early Obama supporters were in that camp. It's the candidate as rock star notion.

Some early Obama supporters thought that being right (about the war) ought to count for something. It's the candidate as honest and intelligent person notion.

Just read Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death. He knew what was happening years ago.

Barak Obama burst on the scene and became a sensation. Immediately talk turned to him as innevitably becoming President someday.

He won the primariy campaign, and emerged as the one to beat...

"Primary" campaign. That's alot different than the election. Yes, people liked the idea of something new, something historic. His message of change and hope resonated...

But people have been waiting for something, anything to give them the excuse to NOT vote for a black man. Enter the vapid, tabloid ready Sarah Palin. She gave people the excuse.

Its over. They're just picking the carcass clean at this point. We could see an epic loss of McGovern proportions. The young voters, all those newly registered voters? This is the sort of muck that ends up turning them off and keeping them home on election day.

It's odd all the time.

PS Hey, Mr. Benen. You were great on Maddow Monday evening. It was a pleasure to see you "in action." Good show. Hope you'll be on again soon.

I think people are missing the point and reading to much into it. The question about experience seems to be a leading question designed to elicit a certain response (in other words a bad question). Some respondents may see a hidden implication that Palin is being questioned about her experience only because she is a woman. It's also not clear from the article whether it's giving the exact wording of the question or a paraphrase. Either way it sounds like the usual sloppy journalism we've come to expect from almost everyone.

Sadly, too many Americans have bought into the illusion that to truly measure one's standing in society one must subject others to ridicule and contempt.

Yes, the 2008 election is turning into a poorly written storyboard for a poorly conceived notion of profit for a select few among us! -Kevo

The people,dumb as they may be,know both parties are totally corrupted and controlled. To most it really doesn't matter.

What the Fuck! Have americans completely lost the ability to even figure out what's in their own self interest? Start a list of all the incompetant moves ,all the criminal and quasi criminal moves and the general decay of the country as whole under republican leadership and ask anyone tell you why they would vote for a republican to carry on this sham.

Umm..blue...there's this new invention called paragraphs. Do everyone a big favor and use 'em. Please.

'In the US, nearly all the benefits of growth in the past decade have accrued to the top 10 percent of society; while the top .01 percent has seen incomes grow 112 percent, the incomes of the bottom 90 percent grew by only 2 percent. The benefits of global growth accrue to fewer people. The richest 1,100 people in the world today have a net worth that’s almost double that of the 2.5 billion people earning the least.' Superclass and the Inequity of Globalization David Rothkopf YaleGlobal, 14 May 2008 http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=10803

So I was really diving down into despair, and decided to just get down and roll around in the mud (oops! Pig comment!) so I cruised on over to the CNN site to see just how bad it is. The comments on the Political Ticker part of the site are running about 80 - 90% pro-BO/JB on the two posts that I read (Obama's response in VA right now about the ridiculous-ness of the McCain/Palin ads last night and how Biden should debate Palin). Don't give up yet!

Its over. They're just picking the carcass clean at this point. We could see an epic loss of McGovern proportions. The young voters, all those newly registered voters? This is the sort of muck that ends up turning them off and keeping them home on election day.

Don't panic. The ground game will deliver the youth vote.

If I may remind everyone: In 2004 the Republican candidate for a senate seat in Kentucky, Jim Bunning, refused to debate his opponent face to face, but instead did it by satellite, and it was revealed later that he was using a TelePrompter to answer questions. As Salon explained, no audience was allowed and, and under threat of legal action, his Democratic opponent could not use any sound or video of the debate in campaign advertisements. The whole campaign was bizarre, with Bunning refusing to answer questions or meet reporters.

Read about whole affair here.

Bunning won with 51% of the vote.

I'm sorry, but with an electorate this dumb, I can certainly see why Palin's qualifications are of no consequence to many people.
____________________________________________

I think it could indicate that Americans regard the presidency as more symbolic than substantive.

And of course, other than starting pointless wars, it's hard to see what a president actually does, except make speeches to various groups every day and host White House dinner parties at night. When do they actually do something, and what exactly is it? George Bush went to Crawford a lot, and rode a bicycle, but what else did he do? How did he affect people's lives, besides making liberals go apoplectic?

And when you get to the vice president, it's not even questionable. They don't do anything. What difference does it make? Americans are a practical people, and probably don't think it makes any difference who the president is.

And maybe they are right. Government is irrelevant, at its best. Reagan taught us that.

All democracies can be silly (See Berlusconi, Silvio, Putin, Vladimir, etc.) and while I despair of ours, it ain't over til it's over. Getting elected as a half-black man with a "funny" name is not going to be easy, but I think it's important to note that the liberal blogs are starting to make a tiny dent in the regular media coverage--Maureen Dowd usually can't be bothered to talk about substance or go after her pal McCain much at all, but she actually wrote a decent column today.

Obama just needs to keep hammering the point he made in his speech--they make a big deal about small things because they don't have anything to say about the important stuff and that their entire campaign is based on attacking him because they can't say what it is that they're for. I think if he repeats this often enough, it will start to resonate with some people who might otherwise be out of it.

btw, Palin's proxies seems to be "whiners" by using her gender to shield her from criticism.

I'm not at all surprised. If you look at places like Scholars and Rogues, or my blog for that matter, you'll get a more complete analysis of how the Obama campaign has been a clusterfuck in a number of ways since coming out of the DNC gate.

Yes, it’s nice Gov. Granholm will be the Palin surrogate for debate prep, but.... WHY isn’t she on the campaign trail attacking fellow female governor Palin? Ditto for Napolitano and Sebelius.

I CANNOT believe these three women are not getting HUGE roles as Obama surrogates. No wonder a place like Scholars & Rogues essentially think Obama is getting his hat handed to him. (I agree.)

Part of why lies gain traction today is Americans want to drop out, even if they don't first tune in and turn out.

That, in turn, relates to how "escape from freedom" works in a democratic society, per Fromm.

We could see an epic loss of McGovern proportions.

Get real. This will be one of the closest elections in history.

The panic here is palpable, and totally unwarranted. You're doing exactly what the GOP wants you to do. You're shitting yourselves over one poll. Get a grip, people.

Yes, Blue, you're absolutely right. But don't infer that all Americans are stupid. Fifty-nine million of us voted for John Kerry in '04.

To Blue at 11:03,

Yeah, but We're #1, We're #1.

(/snark)

blue at 11:03 AM hit the nail on the head! I hate to admit it, but I'm an American. Even worse, a Floridian! I am truly embarassed by our politics! (I hate to use so many !, but I can't help it right now.)

If my boyfriend/domestic partner weren't so averse to the cold, we'd emigrate to Canada if they'd have us (and I would understand if they said "no thanks"). We could actually get married! I may have to consider a bullet in the brain if McPalin wins.

To Blue at 11:03,

Yeah, but We're #1, We're #1.

(/snark)
Posted by: N.Wells on September 10, 2008 at 12:15 PM

*************

RIGHT .. THE NUMBER ONE COUNTRY FEARED BY THE REST OF THE WORLD ........ that's what the last eight years of the evil that is called Bush and his goons have created. and, now, given the general stupidity of your population you are now going to make it even worse .. it is simply INSANE...........

Blue: I can't argue with your post. We as Americans, especially us progressives, are very, very frustrated at what has become of our country. But you must understand this one thing: The media drives the debate in this country. Trust me, if our 4th estate (as it used to be called) actually functioned as our founding fathers envisioned, Americans without the means for lifting themselves out of ignorance would at least have some sort of unbiased source to base their opinions upon. Not all of course.

It's no coincidence that the more education you have, the more democratic you are.

But back to my point. There will always be a portion of our society that is just flat out ignorant, same as any other country. the problem is that our media is owned by a handful of conglomerates that have a vested interest in keeping a republican administration in power. More profit for them.

I'll leave you with some wise words from a late great American composer, Frank Zappa:

I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little had changed
I am the tool of the Government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin' out
From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't got for help...no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks..
Don't touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin' along on your livin'room floor

I am the slime from your video
Can't stop the slime, people, lookit me go

citizen pain:
boy did you just sum up what has happened to your country.
i used to live in your country years ago. i am from denmark. i used to love your country as did most of the world for what it represented: freedom. and doing what was right on behalf of other countries no matter what. you actually represented true democracy.
but, now, you have been reduced to fascism. the government now is simply to do the bidding of the corporations. and the corporations and the media it owns and control is invested in keeping your population, already stupid, even more stupid. so you end up with a population that votes more for people on tv than for the actual president of your country while it eats yet one more hamburger and farts in the face of a stranger while answering a cell phone in public.
a population that is ready to vote against it's own economic self interest not to mention the economic needs of it's own citizens. your greedy, stupid, narcissitic , and arrogant country is ready to 'elect' a man who is peddling lies and delusions that will destroy what is left of your country even more .. they stand their chanting like mindless robots 'sara, sara' even as they now the entire 'image' of her is a fucking total lie .. everything about her is a fucking LIE. yet they stand there chanting 'sara, sara' .. can you even imagine what this looks and sounds like to someone who lives outside of your country ? it is look looking into the face of evil itself to be honest

It's a really simple question.

Really.

Would you hire a babysitter for your kids, and "not worry about qualifications?"

Would you hire a roofer, and "not worry about qualifications?"

Would you do business with an investment broker, or a barber, or a caterer, or a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer, or even a funeral director---and "not worry about qualifications?"

If you're willing to worry so much about yourself, or a family member, or a neighbor or friend, then why not about the 338 million neighbors you have as "fellow Americans?"

The only people for whom qualifications are meaningless are the people who are not only unqualified for the job, but also know that they're unqualified for the job.

And by the way---all the lipstick in the world doesn't make a pig qualified to be anything other than a pig. Someone should really drop THAT one in John McCain's lap, just to see how loudly he squeals....

Hey you liberal Obamatards. If you have to read a poll, read this one! :-D

Blue, no accolades for my Zappa plug? Seriously though. My mom is Norwegian, I have family there and in Italy, and my ex-mother in law is a Dane as well. They are simply shocked at what has become of this country. They saw right through Bu$h in 2000 as well. I remember one cousin specifically saying that Bu$h is like a wannabe John Wayne, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but do you want the "Duke" as your president?

Anyway, as Sinclair Lewis once said, Fascism will come to America wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross, or something to that effect. It has happened.

America is a banana republic right now, and it's downright shameful.

If the American voting electorate allows this to be a close race, and McCain gets elected/appointed/anointed, whatever, then every person who voted for him who loses their job and pension, gets sick without health insurance, has a family member killed in Iraq deserves every bit of that misery.

We can only hope that those "voters" who think it isn't fair to question experience are too stoopid to find their way to their precincts.

Hey, that Palin chick is smokin' You see that picture of her in the flag bikini with the rifle? She can run up my flagpole any time she wants. (heh)

Oh my gawd. Andrea Mitchell just showed McCain using the pig/lipstick cliche re Hillary to Jo Anne Davidson RNC Co-chairperson (and Davidsons response was basically that Palin has sole rights to use the word "lipstick" by telling her joke at the Greedy Old Plutocrat convention).

BTW, Ms. Davidson is the one that introduced "our candidate for Vice President, Sarah Pawlenty."

Tho I think it is still wrong, wrong, wrong for the MSM to continue to beat this dead pig, at least they're challenging the goopers on it. Maybe the McSame campaign's attack on the media finally took them out of his "base."

citizen pain:
i loved the zappa plug .. it perfectly describes exactly what has happened to your country.

Anyway, as Sinclair Lewis once said, Fascism will come to America wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross, or something to that effect. It has happened.

this is exactly what has happened. and the most sickening part of that is that all these people calling themselves 'christians' arn't.....they do not follow the actual words of jesus .. they pretend they do, but they don't. this is simply lucifer, evil, hiding behind god. which is the most dangerous thing of all.

to watch this hysterical insanity over this creature called sarah, the chants of the crowd, is like watching all those germans chant as one for hitler ... it is beyond fucking scary .. not just for your country, but to the world itself. just imagine is gore would have been your president .. 8 years later .. and imagine your country and the world if he had been 'allowed' to actually be your president .. versus the messianic clown called bush.......... could not be more clear of what is on the line ..again...

I'm also going to note that it won't work for the MSM to ask the Republicrats about issues, since St. John can turn any issue into "I was a POW."

Just watch.

Hardball has a counter for how often Palin uses the "thanks, but no thanks to the Bridge to Nowhere" line.

I want to see a counter for every time McSame answers an issue question with a reference to his time as a POW.

http://www.pushback.org/2008/09/10/our-wonderful-democracy/

clearly nobody has read the asterisk -- it's only unfair to question whether a REPUBLICAN candidate is qualified for a particular elected office.

democrats in elected office outed for spending playtime with hookers? driven out of office, never to be heard from again.

republicans in elected office outed for spending playtime with hookers? honored members of their party.

i will leave the list there. i am sure most of you are familiar with it.

nothing to see here, folks. move along.

http://danrlewis.net/blog/perpetuating-double-standard/

I just wasted 45 minutes trying to track down the actual survey questions online, because I really want to know how they worded each one. I found plenty of their other surveys online, but not that one.

the more education you have, the more democratic you are.

Thank you, citizen_pain, for the Zappa quote, but on the line above I'm afraid I'm going to have to add a qualifier. From what I've read, it's just uneducated whites who are likely to vote Republican. Uneducated people of color know where their interests lie. Compare this map of the Southern enslaved population in 1850 with the Southeastern section of this map showing results of the 2004 presidential race by county.