"The Obama campaign doesn't want to come across as whinny."

Obama says, "Neigh!"

Couldn't resist.

i'm prepared to believe this was a rope-a-dope strategy by camp obama, but i think they were just slow in responding and are now getting lucky.

regardless, as soon as i heard "rather lose his integrity than the election" line yesterday i said (including here if i recall), that should be repeated thousands of times between now and november.

Republicans are the champs at finding the heart of their opponent (Gore=smart, Kerry= war hero, Obama = great speaker) and simply 'ripping it out'. No mercy.

Go after McCain's integrity. Rip it out! Run some ads that simply use his own words to hang himself. After that, he's either a liar or he's confused.

Check out this hilarious voice mail spoof.

http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php

I don't mind calling him out on lies and attacks, but he should present the same reaction he did with the Hilary attacks during teh primary.

"It's pathetic, now let's talk about somethign interesting..."

Brush your shoulders off and let's tell 'em how we'll bring the USA back.

I disagree with the notion that there's some kind of downside to Obama calling out the McCain campaign's lies. Sure, some may paint him as whiney, but there are some who would paint him as weak and ineffectual if he didn't rebut them strongly. He's been in this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation before, and he's always done the right thing.

Calling a lie a lie and calling a liar a liar is, undoubtably, the right thing.

This should serve to pacify the angsties I see every day in these message threads who worry about the Obama campaign's response to the McCaniacs.. This guy beat Hillary Clinton, you think his campaign doesn't know how to play John McCain? Have a little faith in something and take an Ativan.

Apparently the Obama camp has finally figgered it out.

Journalists do not do journalism, whatever the hell that is.

They report what the campaign said. They do not do that investigative stuff. And they do not take sides, unless they take the conservative side.

So, if Obama wants the reporters to say "McCain is lying" OBAMA and his camp must say this, over and over. Then the reporters will report this, and they will say "Here's the proof."

If you want some lie to be exposed, you must do the exposing. Reporters will not do it for you.

Now, what I would do is get a "Truth Squad" convened, with a daily press conference. "Today in McLieland" or something like that.

The inner English teacher in me must correct you, Steve. The word is "whiney", not "whinny" ...

there's no downside to speaking the truth

do it, do it often

pass the meme!

Is it risky? Yes, but Obama has to start taking a few more risks. If there is one thing I actually agree about with McCain it is that when you are behind you have to shake up the campaign a little bit. Let's face it, if Obama loses by .01% or by 5% the effect will be exactly the same. There is no point pulling your punches at this point in the campaign.

To be sure, there's something of a risk in this. The Obama campaign doesn't want to come across as whinny.

Yes there certainly is.

If you don't have the backbone to stand up and call a serial liar a serial liar out of timidity, or out of the fear of insulting someone, then you are as unfit for the office of Presidency as are the serial liars you fail to bring to ground.

Think about that...

Bottom line: Defending the morality and integrity of this country is more important than winning the election. Seize the moral high ground in the name of America: Lock, load, and aim.

Head shots only please.
Don't be wimpy about it.
Aim to kill.

To paraphrase an old say:

If you don't like the lies, go out and make some truth of your own...

It's not whinny when you say it firmly and with a touch of anger. The Obama campaign has hit exactly the right tone.

McCain is not a man with a character problem. He IS a character problem, which lives in an empty suit.

putttttttttttttttttttttttttoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo conchudo coco

McCain and Palin are agents of the extreme right wing in this country. They do not view lying as wrong when they believe it is in defense of their country.

Remember all those waving signs at the convention, "Country First!" That's what this is all about. They have subordinated truty to their corrupted vision of national defense.

I have been arguing for a long time that Obama needs to go negative. He needs to utterly destroy the McCain/Palin brand and they've handed him a message with the added bonus that its true: everything that comes out of their traps is a freakin' lie. That message has to be pounded over the airwaves everyday, every hour. Put those two creeps on the defensive by forcing them to explain away their lies at every public appearance, just like what happen on The View.

Just maybe that would give Obama a chance to win this thing.

Unfortunately they pick the strangest times to release these statements. Saturday afternoon on a day when a hurricane hit? Who is this supposed to reach other than people like ourselves? We knew this already so it's essentially falling of deaf ears. No one in the news is reporting anything than the recovery efforts in Texas.

I think there is NO RISK at this juncture, frankly. There is only higher ground to be gained in being relentless with the truth.

Steve, your last reason is the most important one.
But it needs to be a FELT SENSE that McCain's character is utterly Dangerous and Wrong. Yes, exposing lie after lie will help tremendously--but Obama/Biden also need to make this connection with words and images and music: showing him losing his temper and so forth. They need to start pulling out the big guns here, they need to tell it like it is and start using some important adjectives like "dangerous", "reckless", "impulsive"-- that clearly point to a deeply flawed character and judgment.

And Biden et al. need to STOP with any and all praise: the "My friend, John McCain" stuff that they somehow feel a need to keep injecting as though they are apologizing in advance for what they are about to say...You know-- the: "He is an honorable man who served his country" line...

***As Bill Moyers pointed out in his Journal (see full transcript on-line at PBS site) show last night, Novelist Russel Bates in: "Dreaming up America" tells us that we choose our presidents not on the basis of their experience or even their political views, but in how well they tap into our basic beliefs, our deepest communal desires, including our religious or spiritual beliefs.

John S McCain will do anything, whatever it takes, including hiring the same operatives who slimed him in 2000 -- to avoid going into the history books as the white candidate who lost the presidency to a black challenger.

He'll do anything.

I'm starting to believe it was a rope-a-dope. McCain locked down the headlines when he named Sarah Palin as his runningmate. The convention followed immediately. Let's face it, Sarah Palin has self combusted. McCain is being outright callrd a liar now. If the Obama campaign hit back hard in the middle of Palin-mania it might have looked whiny. They bided their time and now are hitting back when the cracks have opened up in the McCain camp.

Releasing these statements today was to set up the sunday morning shows tomorrow.

Makes a body wonder whether he lied about being tortured.

"Makes a body wonder whether he lied about being tortured."

I'm wondering if we'll find out she really isn't the Governor of alaska

Makes a body wonder whether he lied about being tortured. -- Hedley Lamarr, @ 16:35

He wasn't tortured; he was a subject of enhanced interrogations.

I think the Obama camp waited for a bit, just to see if the MSM was going to finally turn on McPain before using the "L" word.

Now it's clear that the MSM is starting to do their fucking job, so it was a smart move by the Obama team to hold out with the heavy handed attacks.

The art of fighting, without fighting.

To be sure, there's something of a risk in this. The Obama campaign doesn't want to come across as whinny.

Calling somebody a liar is not "whinny."

Run some ads that simply use his own words to hang himself. After that, he's either a liar or he's confused.

Great idea, and McCain provided them all the ammunition they need with his appearance on the View.

The perfect ad should have McCain's claim that no one can find anywhere where he's changed his position in the last eight years, followed by two or three cut and dried examples of him, in his own words, giving two opposing opinions. Followed by: John McCain, Flip-flopper. Liar. Is there anything he won't lie about to get elected?

the recent numbers of fact-checking articles would make for nice campaign ads as well. Voice-overs quoting all the articles and columns that call bullshit on McCain AND point out that he's losing any honor that the professionals thought he had.

The tone in the traditional media has changed. Now the Obama campaign needs to amplify that.

If Obama's camp doesn't want to appear whiney, all they need do is compile national newspaper editorial comments and comments from known political commentators who are already published or aired that call McCoot a LIAR. Let them do the dirty work for Obama. AND, this will also build legitimacy to see liberal, moderate and some conservative voices trash McCoot. Then sit back and let it catch on....

Like I said, is anybody keeping track of Palin's lies? Because at some point in time, they are going to equal McCain's flip-flops... no?

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/reading-the-c-1.html

How does Obama want to live with himself after this election? If he loses because he stood silent while McCain lied his way to the presidency, Obama will kick himself in the teeth until he has none left.

If you have to lose (and I'm not saying that he will, but in that context), you dang well want to lose taking a stand against one lying SOB.

Call him out on his lies, Obama, every day, every hour, every minute. ORDER every surrogate who goes on TV, radio, or in print - to challenge McCain on his lies, call him a liar, and demand that the Repub surrogate deny that fact.

The public may not like it, but they'll have the opportunity to face the truth. What they do with the truth is entirely up to them.

And the next evolution should be ads that provide the laundry list of example along with the obvious conclusion!

"Call him out on his lies, Obama, every day, every hour, every minute. ORDER every surrogate who goes on TV, radio, or in print - to challenge McCain on his lies, call him a liar, and demand that the Repub surrogate deny that fact."

not every surrogate. find one – or preferably more – who can turn mcsame in to a laughing stock.

and maybe another who can force the mcsame campaign into defending themselves with the choice of "our candidate is either lying or is unaware of the facts."

tonight is going to be VERY important indicator of this campaign.... season premier of SNL.... and I have a feeling it is going to be a seismic wave hitting Sarah Palin. My God, she is a motherlode of comic material....hell, I could imitate her (and I did a great impression of Ross Perot as I drove into the Disney Theme Parks after paying the parking...'that giant sucking sound')

Whatever is shown tonight, coupled with endless replays of The View, is going to be played and replayed for at least a couple of days. If I was the Obama campaign, I would be riding that wave like Laird Hamilton.... this could be some major 'toe in' surfing. Maybe a new tag line...
'more of the same .... with John McCain'... put that in the saucer and see if the cat licks it up'

To be sure, there's something of a risk in this. The Obama campaign doesn't want to come across as whiney.

Uh oh. Looks like the ghost of that hand-wringer Kevin Drum is still lurking here.

C'mon Steve. There is nothing -- NOTHING -- that is "whiney" about calling a compulsive repetitive liar just that.

"Makes a body wonder whether he lied about being tortured."

Under the current administration's definition of "torture," well, yup, he would be lying...

Does Bush Believe McCain was tortured?

I've said before that I hoped Obama was doing a political rope-a-dope and this certainly looks like it. After the hits McCain took on The View it has become clear that most of the moderate, MSM commentariate, who were McCain's biggest defense against these kinds of attacks have finally had enough. And now Obama's people are coming out swinging. It really looks as though they waited till he had nothing left for defense before they went out on offense.

I expect that in a week or two McCain will be back up against the ropes and Obama will be landing blows almost unchallenged. If you do a proximity search in Nexis a month from now on all mentions of McCain with the word liar within ten words, you will probably get every mention of McCain. The terms will be inseparable.

And if it turns out that way I, for one, will not be upset. Not one little bit. While McCain 2000 was second on my list for people I would vote for in the Presidential election, McCain 2008 is a soulless creature that is, at best, a shadowy husk of a politician embodying all the worst aspects of the species with none of the pith. He should burn in Hades.

Obama might consider adding a clip from the Republican Convention to his next ad.

McCain: "We were elected to change Washington, and we let Washington change us.�

Uh oh. Looks like the ghost of that hand-wringer Kevin Drum is still lurking here.

[Insert belly laugh here]

Oh my.

I think Andrew Sullivan has it right. McCain's egregious lies are Rove and Schmidt's attempt to prompt Obama to lash out angrily -- making him appear as the Angry Black Man.

Meanwhile, Obama is keeping calm, quietly waiting for McCain/Palin to self-destruct.

I think the timing on this is just perfect:
1) McCain needed enough rope to hang himself with the press. If Obama had come out attacking McCain's integrity in June, the entire Village would have retired to their fainting couches before building the Church of St. Maverick the Persecuted on Pennsylvania Ave. Today the narrative (outside of Fox) won't be "Arrogant Upstart Slanders his Betters," it'll be "Obama hits back."
2) This plays into one of the fundamental American myths: the reluctant warrior. How many Westerns have you seen where the hero reluctantly straps on the old Colt after the bad guy gets more and more brazen in his misdeeds? "I didn't start this, but I'll finish it." In Obama's case, of course, this has the advantage of being true; he'd happily make this election about the issues because he can trounce McCain there as well.

This guy beat the Clintons in a Democratic primary. He knows what he's doing.

Maybe it's time to take a few pages from Tucker Eskew's playbook. What about running some ads on McCain's involvement in the Keating Five? Follow up with calls to key states asking people if they fully understood the extent of his corruption back then?

AFter all, S&Ls are back in the news. Do we want a chief executive with a history of corrrupt ties to the banking industry making decisions about Lehman Brothers? Hell, McCain admits he doesn't even understand the economy. But he understands inside dealing and payoffs.

When Freddie Mac gets ready to close down a failing bank in a red state do we really want McCain-Palin at the helm?

How much of this serial lying is being driven by Eskew? Can McCain be painted as a weak tool of his greasy campaign handlers? Kind of a before and after -- he used to be a man of integrity but he became so obsessed with winning he hired a
sleazeball political consultant and changed into an unrecognizable Republican jerk . . .

Another angle -- there's a difference between an "up and comer" and a "striver." Palin's a striver -- all phony manufactured image covered over in makeup, just like when she was on the tiara circuit.

Perhaps it's not a job for Obama himself, but a monicker such as "a lying sack of D.C. status quo" might catch on.

regardless, as soon as i heard "rather lose his integrity than the election" line yesterday i said (including here if i recall), that should be repeated thousands of times between now and november.

I'm loving that they took one of McCain's lines about Obama and turned it right back on McCain. Not only have they pretty much ended McCain's ability to use that particular line, they have the advantage of their construction actually being, you know, true.

And here's one more angle --

I hear from my wife that she and her female friends are appalled at the choice of Governor Palin as VP. They see right through her GOP-manufactured image to the shallow, inexperienced, vindictive right-wing zealot that she is.

These women are worried that this rube from Alaska will set back by decades the cause of professionally trained women in high office. After all the education and professional experience of people like Clinton, Feinstein, Boxer, Hutchinson, Snowe, etc. etc. to have the new president of the Senate chosen out of nowhere because of her right wing cred and attractive legs? What must be going on in the minds of these highly qualified female leaders thinking about the first day Palin raises gavel and calls the Senate to order? Palin as "Madam President?"

Did any course of studies Palin ever took as an undergraduate have anything remotely to do with the duties she is attempting to assume? Last month she didn't even know what a vice president did every day.

She is obviously not being chosen because she is professionally qualified. That's what is pissing off professional women. They work hard all their lives and the one that gets chosen is the one with big hair, nice legs and no brains.

Couldn't agree more. Exactly what your post talks about has been the number one issue in my conversations with political friends these past few days.

Obama would be an idiot not to call him out on this. To do it publicly, and do it in a way that's intended to stir controversy. Yes, it's another distraction from the issues, but McCain's lying has now become a central issue. Is it not?

Did any course of studies Palin ever took as an undergraduate have anything remotely to do with the duties she is attempting to assume?

Hell, yeah -- broadcast journalism. What else is modern politics? We've had a spokesmodel for the last eight years

Obama's a con-law professor in a nation where the law, and the Constitution, is a much-admired anachronism, a Colonial Williamsburg of the mind.

To that extent, she's the best-qualified of the four.

Especially when compared with the previous spokesmodel.

Meanwhile, Steve. (HELLOOOOO!) The site doesn't remember personal info. Do you read comments here?

I've gotten used to the software not remembering my personal info, even though it -- mockingly? -- asks me if I want it to, every effing time. And, while I absolutely *hate* not being able to refer to a previous posting via its number (rather than the time of posting), I can live with it.

But, can we -- pretty please -- have the "weekend open threads" back? They were still a very young and tender pair of twins when Steve left the Carpetbagger but very promising and enjoyable to may of us. Now, we have to tuck in our tidbits of news wherever we can...

A long and fascinating article about the Caribou Barbie in today's NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=1&hp

She seems to be a *perfect* reincarnation of the Bush/Cheney regime. Indeed, compared to her, McCain is very small moose droppings...

I think the Democrats should make a commercial with this video and the caption – “Look what happened the last time an ex-beauty queen and conservative politics got mixed up�!

"Unfortunately they pick the strangest times to release these statements. Saturday afternoon on a day when a hurricane hit? Who is this supposed to reach other than people like ourselves? We knew this already so it's essentially falling of deaf ears. No one in the news is reporting anything than the recovery efforts in Texas."

Get out and knock on doors telling people republicans are lying with every inch of their being just like they did with iraq and wmds.

It's not like the lying isn't connected to people's lives. They lie about the economy, they lie about energy, they lie about education, they lie about iraq, etc, etc, etc. This list is fucking endless.

When Republicans lie main stream media views it as a clever campaign tactic. When Democrats lie it's treated as a serious character flaw.

I agree with earlier posters -- Obama needs to respond assertively but carefully. Rove and Eskew are setting a trap for him. If Obama responds too angrily they will pull out the "angry black activist" label. With South Carolina's Eskew advising McCain's campaign you can just imagine the unethical ads they would run.

Still, Obama needs to come up with a few ads that force McCain to respond to him and not the other way around. Maybe charges of lying can do it.

How about another humorous ad, along the lines of "The McCain campaign has been invaded by the South Carolina Right Wing Body Snatchers?" McCain has forsaken his Maverick reputation. He's become Elmer Fudd chasing a Wascally Wabbit.

But why did the say "integrity" rather than "honor"?

John McCain would rather lose his honor than lose an election.

has more punch and would get under their skin more. McPOW and the Repugs are very attached to 'honor'. Integrity has a sort of intellectual wonky ring to it, and manifestly something they don't care about. Also, 'honor' rhythms better (with two syllables) than 'integrity' (with three syllables).

Is this being too picky? I don't think so - for sound-bites it has to perfect to resonate and catch.

Repeat after me:

John McCain is not your friend, and he is lying to you.

RepubLIEcans

Pants on fire

The key to this line of attack is tone:

Don't let Obama/Biden give the impression they are saying "its so unfair McCain/Palin are lying about us."

And especially don't demand that McCain/Palin apologize for lying.

DO say "how can McCain/Palin reform Washington D.C. if they won't even tell the truth in their campaign ads/speeches"

or better yet "how can you trust McCain/Palin to clean up the corrupt Republican party if they are willing to continually lie to you to get elected?"

or possibly "McCain/Palin are lying to you about their resumes. This would disqualify them from any other job in government or private industry, do you really want to reward them with the most important job in the country?"

Of course McCain is trashing his brand, but it's working for him politically. And it will continue to work, I'm afraid. Team McCain's offensive of lies and distortions is going to carry him to the WH (barely), after which he'll probably crash and burn like the Hindenburg. We're facing huge deficts and McCain isn't going to get things under control by simply abolishing earmarks. So he either moves to the center and meets the Dems halfway on tax and spending issues, in which case the right will revolt (see Bush 41) or the deficits will get even bigger (see Bush 43). And I'm not even counting immigration reform. Republicans are really kidding themselves if they think McCain has abandoned that idea. Weaver has it exactly right. It's going to be hollow victory.

..."(No credible media figure will see/hear this aggressive criticism and think, "This hardly seems justified.")"

Wanna bet?

Now that it's reached the MSM that McCain is lying at every opportunity, I think Obama's campaign can begin taking advantage of the newly forming narrative. It's time for a commercial with an image of John McCain, mouth moving, and false statement being made, followed by the words LIE superimposed over his face. Rinse and repeat, then close with a voiceover saying, "How do we know when John McCain is not telling the truth?" and the image of his lips moving with no sound. Ok, maybe Obama can't run this directly, but someone has to.

McCain hired the ones who slimed him in 2000, yes, but he can't use the same tactic: 'Obama fathered a black child' because it doesn't work ha. They've had to come up with new lies.

And it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that Rove had a claw in Palin's Alaska gov election - for just such a time as this.

All the Obama team has to do is run Jon Stewart's Daily Show montage of McCain vs. McCain and follow up the ad like Robert Greenwald does....
Psssst....Do Something!

tanstaafl said: "McCain/Palin are lying to you about their resumes. This would disqualify them from any other job in government or private industry, do you really want to reward them with the most important job in the country?"

That is a very good point. This point needs repeating by the surrogates. There are plenty of government employees where this will be resonating: city, county, state, federal, school, government agencies, etc...

Why should there be an exception for McCain and Palin? We're probably talking about several million 'government employees' who had to have their applications filled out correctly without lies and/or embellishments

Well, I won't be the first one to have noticed it, but the quotes from Obama that Steve provides are straight-forward, flat-out accusations. They say that John McCain and his flaks are liars. Facts support the accusations. In calling McCain a liar, he tells the truth.

Leave it to the imaginations of those who fear God what ring of hell awaits liars and those who vote for them.

Again, lets get pissed. totally tired of the wimpy ass responses from Obama. Love the guy, but he's going to get his ass kicked if he doesn't get some balls.

I can understand how you feel stlouisguy, but don't you think the four quotes steve gave in the main post, particularly the two from today fit what you are looking for?

it's not hard enough, in the midwest you kick the bullies ass and he's still not doing it.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said:

"John McCain ... is cynically running the sleaziest and least honorable campaign in modern presidential campaign history. His discredited ads with disgusting lies are running all over the country today. He runs a campaign not worthy of the office he is seeking."

Glad to hear the Obama campaign saying this, simply and clearly, in appropriately strong language, at last.

They need to put the corporate-owned media on the spot by relentlessly attacking the Rove-Palin campaign's numerous, repeated, brazen, preposterous, malicious lies with words like "sleazy", "dishonorable", "discredited", "disgusting" and "unworthy" until it raises such a gawd-awful stink that the corporate media can't avoid talking about it, even if they want to.

This isn't "whining" -- this is a lion's roar. This is how you change the "narrative" of the campaign.

More importantly, in my opinion, the malicious dishonesty of the Rove-Palin campaign is the worst thing about the Palin-McCain ticket.

The so-called "neoconservative" policies of Cheney-Bush are bad enough, but far worse for this country has been their blatant criminality and corruption.

Likewise, I abhor and despise the policies that Palin-McCain would bring to government, and hope the election is a clear rejection of those policies by the American people. But it is even more important for the American people to reject the Palin-McCain ticket's sleazy, dishonorable, disgusting dishonesty as unworthy of this country.

John McCain deserves to lose this election because of his dishonesty, and to know that his dishonesty is the reason he was rejected by the American people.

I agree with many who have written here about calling a liar out being the right thing to do. How many of you have e-mailed or mailed the Obama campaign to tell him your thoughts? Maybe if we show some support directly he will listen. There were some very good and thought provoking posts in this thread. And remember to show your doubting friends the proof, it is as close as any computer with internet access.