The truth hurts, let's hope it hurts more and a lot!

This assumes McCain ever actually *had* Will; that's doubtful. To me, the most telling part of the column was Will's attack on McCain-Feingold--an old bete noire of Will's. Basically, Will has never liked McCain, but suppressed it out of party loyalty. That's increasingly hard to do for any guy that doesn't want to be considered a hack. It also reminds me of his dismissal of Bush I's fiscal-conservative credentials back in 1992: "Congress has passed every balanced budget Bush has ever submitted." A harbinger?

I'd just like to mention that my Republican mom refuses to believe that George Will is a conservative. She thinks he's a moderate who leans slightly to the left and has been saying that for a few years now, which is why she doesn't think his opinion is worth much.

But then again, she also once insisted that Cal Thomas was black, as I think she had him confused with another columnist; even though she read his column regularly. So it's possible she was confused about who Will is too. But then again, with how far to the right Republicans have taken things, perhaps Will really does lean slightly to the left; at least relatively speaking.

But Will has always hated McCain. During the primaries, he hit McCain whenever possible and has continued to be critical of McCain the man, even while talking up his campaign. I just don't think it falls into the same category as the others. Will has always thought McCain was a dick.

Just another example to highlight the George Will is one of the only likeable conservatives left in America.

Make room in the "tank". If this continues, McAce will need a bigger tank or smaller individuals. If I were he, I'd go "Big" like his lies, ego, and hubristic choice for VP. Go Keating 5! What? That's not a basketball team? Oops. Sorry....

A lot of conservative columnists and TV circus clowns have been wondering lately, "Where do I go to get my good name back?" Let them start with an apology.

Do you get the sense that the political elite have decided that a McCain presidency would be undesirable? I know I have gotten that feeling. I know the Republicans continue to make noises like they actually do want to win this election. But I get the feeling that they are actually becoming quite alarmed about McCain. Palin's pick was a disaster. Plus we have the disaster of the economy that needs to be cleaned up and I think alot of people are realizing that the standard Republican bromides are insufficient to the task. Plus, we have to worry about McCain's belicosity.

Not only the political elite. I have to wonder if foreign governments are exerting under-the-table pressure. China holds a trillion dollars of our paper and they want to get paid back. If the US economy goes down, it could take a huge chunk of the world with it. I just have wonder if foreign leaders have decided it is time for an intervention.

I just get the sense that alot of very important people are becoming deathly afraid of a McCain administration.

I'd just like to mention that my Republican mom refuses to believe that George Will is a conservative. She thinks he's a moderate who leans slightly to the left and has been saying that for a few years now, which is why she doesn't think his opinion is worth much.

Did you point out to her that "left-leaning moderate" Will helped coach Reagan on a debate prep book stolen from Carter's people? Which, coincidentally, is why I don't think his opinion is worth much.

The more the merrier, no matter what their motivations. For too long we've had absolute silence on the right as the country has spiraled into ruin. Dear Leader benefited mightily from that. So let's hear Sam and Cokie and George diss McBush early and often so that it becomes easier for sheep to pile on.

Cosmo Kramer just called me. He said he's changed his mind about George Will, and now thinks he really is bright (in addition to being handsome).

Do you get the sense that the political elite have decided that a McCain presidency would be undesirable?

I get the sense that the political and media elite have concluded that a McCain presidency is impossible. As Danp alluded upthread, some of them may be trying to rehabilitate their credibility, or their "access."

George Will will never forgive John McCain for enacting campaign finance reform a few years ago. In his contorted world, the free-speech provisions of the Constitution should forbid even the more reasonable restrictions on how a politician can raise and use money during a presidential campaign. I suspect that it is Will's grudge about this, as much as his distaste for McCain's character and temperament, that is driving his recent attacks. Of course, McCain himself is now using every trick in the book to evade the restrictions on campaign funding that he himself helped put in place.

George Will is a conservative.

Conservatism and the GOP split long ago.

NeoCon != Conservative

... Will described McCain as "childish," "shallow," and suffering from a "Manichaean worldview."

That's a pretty concise description of our current president. In our current world, we might want someone with better problem solving skills.

Picking up from the previous thread, we'll know things are getting serious when Will writes that McCain is an Arab.

I think that anyone and everyone who points out McCain's weaknesses is a benefit to Obama. Whatever slice of America listens to Will, it is clear that he has some influence simply by the wide distribution of his column. If he makes 1% of McCain's supporters say "Hey if George Will thinks this is a bad idea, maybe I should reconsider" that's a win. Personally I think that when figures like Will turn on McCain it grants a permission of sorts for people who have come to see themselves as Republicans to vote Democratic.

In a related note, I'm starting to wondering if a certain segment of Republicans may not be thinking that the mess the next President will inherit is so enormous, that it may not just be better to lose this one (they never loved McCain any way) and regroup for 2012. It may be worth taking the hit on the Supreme Court, especially since the first two likely retirements will be from the liberal wing of the court anyway.

Heh, even tanker Drudge put this up, I guess he can't ignore all the bad stuff for McCain and put up nothing but crap on Biden and diversions about Palin's hacked email, etc. I wonder, what Drudge gets from who for what he does?

Will's as unprincipled as the rest of them (one example of many: he strongly backed the Iraq war, then jumped ship by late 2003, but still backed W for reelection). He's just always despised McCain for the reasons others have alluded to.

Will doesn't really belong in the "enough" club only because he has always disliked McCain-- dating back to at least McCain's work on campaign finance reform, which Will views as inconsistent with the First Amendment.

Forget whether Will is a conservative, or 'leans left', what matters is that many people in the middle, independents, look at him as a fair columnist. That is the voting bloc that matters with this column.

Yeah, it's funny as noted above in comments, how any "conservative" commentator who criticizes one the favorite Republicans is perforce, no longer a "conservative"! (Shades of Scotsmen ...) Heh, that means their fans can say, their candidate is "never criticized by conservatives"!

(Of course, it is so often *the other way around* as one can tell by looking at what people at Lew Rockwell, Reason, The American Conservative, Ron Paul etc. say about establishment Republicanism and its representatives.)

"childish," "shallow," and suffering from a "Manichaean worldview."

My, oh my, does that remind anyone of another Republican?

The question that plagues me is this: Will George Will and other moderates in his camp who don't like McCain/Palin enter that polling booth on Nov. 4 and vote for Obama?

Or will they vote for McCain anyway? Or vote Independent? Or will they opt out altogether?

NeoCon != Conservative Posted by: Erik in Maine

No. Neo is a prefix meaning "recent." This term/concept is used to tag people who were once liberal and later suffered brain damage and became conservatives, but a really warlike and messianic.

Will is very much an old-style conservative and has been for about 45 years.

Jeff II,

You couldn't be more wrong about what a neocon is. Neoconservatism is a political philosophy rooted in American corporate domination as attained through any means necessary, even total global war.

The Bush Doctrine (In what respect, Charlie?) is a perfect example of neoconservatism.

It's the wet dream of PNAC, and has culminated in the economic and social distress the country is currently experiencing.

It has nothing to do with liberal converts to the dark side.

I cannot describe the amount of relief that I will feel if and when Obama is elected, knowing that he'll be appointing the next members of the Supreme Court, as well as all of the federal judiciary.
I know that Stevens is old and likely to retire, but who would be next? I've heard Ginsburg maybe or Souter--but are they any older than Kennedy and Scalia? I think Scalia is in his seventies.

George is of course thinking of Victory Day Putin.

Joe B. is hi-sL.

It's true that Will has never liked McCain and hated McCain-Feingold, so he's not really a member of the "enough" club. But the story here is that Will has reached the point where he'll no longer cover for McCain simply out of party loyalty. This could give voters and other columnists on the right the courage to turn against McCain. Safire wrote a similar column in 1992 endorsing Clinton.

Months ago, there was a conspiracy theory that G. Will, D. Brooks and a few others where writing columns in which they seemed to be enthralled by B. Obama. Some critics of these writers where suspicious of the writers positive comments. The columnists were setting up B. Obama somehow.

So now what? More ruse? McSame wasn’t their first choice anyway, and maybe with all of financial shenanigans the wise old farts are thinking better of Obama for real.

Yeah…And maybe pigs with lipstick will fly out of my butt.

Picking up from the previous thread, we'll know things are getting serious when Will writes that McCain is an Arab.

A little java through the nasal membranes there.

Will uses words which have more than one syllable. It's for sure that he's not reaching the Republican base.

I once wrote a letter to Will in response to a particular column (I forget what it was about now - probably something about Clinton) in which I stated my opinion that he reminded me of the guy who couldn't get laid in high school.

I take it back.

Just another example to highlight the George Will is one of the only likeable conservatives left in America.

Yeah, he's the kind of guy I could see sitting down with and emptying a mug of beer over his head.

It's the wet dream of PNAC, and has culminated in the economic and social distress the country is currently experiencing.

PNAC is less than a decade old. Neo-conservatism goes back to the middle of the Cold War. William Kristol's (the founder of PNAC) parents were Trotskites. Irving Kristol, William's father, considered by some to the be the "godfather" of neo-conservatism, is described thusly,

While neoconservatism first emerged as a coherent political ideology in the 1970s, Kristol's path from radical leftist, to liberal, to neoconservative Republican, began much earlier, in the early 1950s, when he was editor of Commentary.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1253.html

It has nothing to do with liberal converts to the dark side. Posted by: doubtful

"doubtful" is an appropriate moniker as it is doubtful you are particularly well-read in political science or the history of American political theory.

Obama needs to make McCain's temperment a bigger issue. Hopefully it will come out in the debates, but he really needs to make the public more aware of what a hothead McCain truly is.

Neil B: Yeah, it's funny as noted above in comments, how any "conservative" commentator who criticizes one the favorite Republicans is perforce, no longer a "conservative"! (Shades of Scotsmen ...) Heh, that means their fans can say, their candidate is "never criticized by conservatives"!

This is near the precise intersection of religion and politics. I can remember pointing out to my Fundie Father all the scandals that have unfolded (Swaggart, Baker, etc.) and all the incredibly anti-christian behavior of so-called Christians, and all he had to do was revoke their 'Christian badge' and all was perfect and harmonious again.

It's all part of their Manichean worldview: if anyone questions doctrine/party line, they are immediately thought of as the enemy and are therefore out to destroy them.

Not sure how much Will helps. He is so elitist that MccainCo can toss him under the wheels and earn the praise of his starkly unexceptional base. Any rational, moral human being will vote for Obama anyway. If Obama asks and gets people to 'stop and think, in the booth, before you vote for more of the same', he wins big by actual and electoral vote.

Conservatives who take national security seriously are privately fuming anyway. He sacrificed their edge on national security with his VP pick. Will will give them the moral support they need to break with the party. I predict many of them will not show up to vote or will vote for Obama.

Yeah, he's the kind of guy I could see sitting down with and emptying a mug of beer over his head.

Didn't say you had to agree with him. I've been reading his columns for years. Sometimes I agreed, and mostly I didn't but at least he can make points and back them up. That's what I've always liked about him, he actually debates rather than this whole 'with or against us' mentality that conservatives adopted.

It actually may turn out, if we're lucky, if we pray, hope, burn candles, knock on wood, turn around three time, and avoid cracks in the pavement, that the ONLY ReThuglicans that vote for McCain are Palin's wacked-out relgious co-dominionists.

George Will remains a great opportunist. Reaganism died last week; Obama is about to be elected to create something new. Many leading conservative pundits can expect to be joining Lehman-Brothers brokers in search of a new career, but Will can hope to survive by jumping ship now.

Not sure how much Will helps. He is so elitist that MccainCo can toss him under the wheels and earn the praise of his starkly unexceptional base.

This is true vis-a-vis the "base," who are anything but 100% behind him even with Palin on the ticket. But McCain can't hope to win if it's only these "people" and another 10% of the confused and/or stupid.

Will is seen as a legitimate voice on the right who appeals to "traditional" conservatives and GOPers in general. Palin embarrasses these people. Losing someone like Will makes it look more and more like McCain is working without a net.

Any rational, moral human being will vote for Obama anyway. Posted by: Michael7843853

Therein lies the problem. Most Americans aren't very rational (again, see What's the Problem with Kansas?) or even reasonable and, given our collective shoulder shrug at what's been done in our names since 9/11, we aren't a particularly moral nation.

What is it with main stream Republicans when someone like George Will remembers and practices the concept of 'the loyal opposition' and truly puts "Country First".