A little disappointed that Obama repeated McCain's mistake of calling the revolutionary guard in Iran the republican guard, instead of pointing out his mistake. Could've segued into need to know who the actors are before deciding what to do.

I agree. I really saw the contempt "dripping" from McCain. My sister who is the CLASSIC "low information voter" said -- I can't stand that guy. I couldn't ever imagine him coming on TV to reassure a nation for any reason. I'm voting Barack for sure." Finally Mr. conventional wisdom Mark Halperin gave Barack an A- and Mccain a B- and I actually agree with him this time.

I thought it was actually pretty close. Both of them sucked at actually answering Lehrer's early questions about the bailout plan. Obama had a slight edge in the middle, but McCain finished out relatively strong. A tie in my book (although I agree with Obama's position more when they are at odds, I don't think he was necessarily more convincing on those points).

McCain almost assured me that he was actually against torture, but then I keep thinking about his vote for the MCA and Glenn Greenwald's article a couple months back about how McCain has almost enabled the Bush Administration to torture by promoting that piece of legislation. And doesn't Benen have a flip-flop on this one?

I meant to say "McCain has almost *single-handedly* enabled the Bush Administration" ...

I'm an Obama supporter but I'd give the edge to McCain because I thought he connected more. I like Obama's intelligent, professorial tone, but others might find it "bloodless." He also has to stop saying how he agrees with McCain, which I suspect is just a debating habit from Senatorial collegiality. But he needs to drop it.

If anything hurts McCain it may be the almost passionate glee with which he seemed to describe those regimes he considers really, really evil, like the "giant gulag" North Korea, and the utter contempt he has for the president of Iran and his hatred of Israel. I know that plays well with the neo-cons and Israel lobby but scares everyone else. It makes him seem like a warmonger eager to get us into a third war.

I'm disappointed. Obama should have cleaned McCain's clock tonight. He seemed hesitant and unsure through most of the debate and missed a number of opportunities for quick kills.

In spite of that, it was clear that he was getting under McCain's skin and the latter struggled to keep from completely losing his rag.

Obama: B

McCain: C-

If what they're saying is right -- that McCain was wrong about Pakistan being a failed state -- then McCain will suffer badly in the post-debate analysis by the press and voters who watched.

His entire argument was that Obama was confused, naive, stupid, a dumb black kid, etc. This obligated him to be tack sharp on the issues and on the facts. If he got this one wrong -- about an issue that is becoming critical right now -- his stature and his arguments for his own candidacy will be greatly diminished in the next several days.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bergmann/major-gaffe-mccain-said-p_b_129780.html

Going over the answers again, McCain made so many gaffes, he'll welcome the VP debate just to get the news cycle off how ignorant he is.

(repost from last thread)
on the point that many have mentioned about mccain seeming more clear than he has in a long time, what happened? i still think that he rambled a lot and didn't really answer questions but at least he looked like he understood the questions. given the shenanigans of the last few days, i expected him to be worse than usual, not better.

John McCain did a fine job. He is a liar and has indefensible positions on many things, but he was able to continue to lie (though Obama did his best to correct the record when it came to his record) and offered a (lackluster) defense of his opinions. I wouldn't have expected less from him. On the contempt issue. Who cares! Barack Obama has an uphill climb with many white voters who will be contemptuous of his position.

Obama should have answered questions whether he is capable of being the president, and though I could lavish praise, I will save it.

I'd give Obama the A-, and McCain the generous B,
but at the same time, I'd hope that the professor would stamp the "B" paper with "Bullshit" for every piece of rubbish he uttered. For example, the lies about $42K, the idiocy about Pakistan being a failed state prior to the coup, etc.
The only reason he gets a "gentleman's" B (in spite of clearly not being a gentleman) is that there will be no factchecking done before most of tonight's audience.

N.

Watching how the independent voters' reactions sagged every time McCain talked about Iraq, I think Obama missed a huge opportunity:;

"Senator McCain, when I was visiting Iraq, Prime Minister Maliki said he agreed with me about a timetable for withdrawal. The Iraqi Parliament has said they won't sign a SOFA agreement without a firm commitment to a timetable.

The Iraqi government says it's time for American troops to start coming home, the American public want our brave soldiers to come home.

Senator McCain, the American people deserve a straight answer from you: when are our men and women in uniform coming home from Iraq?"

My sense was both were flustered talking about the bailout and future spending (and I don't blame them.) Obama gained his footing once the topic changed to foreign affairs. The last half hour/45 minutes Obama was the clearest and more substantive, McCain repeated himself a lot in the last half hour and tended to ramble with his Obama-bashing.

The dueling bracelets was choice, and Obama had the better moral drawn with his. His best line, I believe, was to say that no American soldiers die in vain, an emotional observation which undercut a great deal of McCain's rationale, one of fighting for honor, for staying in Iraq.

What I took away was that McCain strongly defended, albeit in only general ways, a war which a majority of Americans now think was a terrible mistake, while Obama was very sharp and detailed with his criticism of the same.

By tomorrow no one will remember the debating points. What they will remember is each candidates tone. On this basis Obama was the clear winner.

www.mediacurves.com has Obama winning overall:
61.11 to 38.89% to Obama.
Good night for the left

Sure, Obama missed some opportunities, but that's the case in every debate. Even so, he was more credible on substance and more presidential in style. McCain seemed like a jerk, and he oozed angry entitlement. Obama didn't need to win this debate, just tie and run out the clock. He won anyway.

What I got from the experience?

Barack Obama is a sincere American who wants to make a difference for all middle class Americans, and has formulated effective and efficient strategies to present to the American public should they choose to elect him come November 4th.

McCain came off as a my way or the highway guy just playing a game of chess to see who had the better moves. I don't think he is the one who understands - an epithet he seemed comfortable slamming his opponent with for no good reason other than interjecting smear into the debate.

Can't wait for that witch-hunting VP debate next week! -Kevo

I thought Obama came across as thoughtful, intelligent, and well informed, and McCain came across as an ideologue. I also found McCain's rambling extremely irritating. And what's with the after debate commentary - the Dems are represented by VP candidate Biden and the R's have Rudy Giuliani? Where's McCain's running mate?

Obama missed a lot of opportunities, but the focus groups seem to have gone his way. Brace yourself for new McCain drama tomorrow to stomp on any Obama advantage.

I nearly fell asleep during this debate.

I wasn't too impressed with Lehrer, for starters. He was just banging that "Talk to each other drum" a little too much. You can't force a YouTube moment, Jim.

They both botched the bailout plan question, which I was surprised about. The answer is simple because they've both said they've been wary of Paulson's 700 billion rubber stamp plan. They should've responded resoundingly NO to that plan at the very least.

Outside of that, I think McCain looked like an angry little troll who was way too eager to say he'd been on the Earth longer and therefore knew more. Obama was pretty cool and calm, but forceful when he needed to be. He probably "agreed" with McCain a bit too much, but I don't think enough to sound weak. There weren't any home runs, and I wish Obama had drawn some blood on McCain, but he sounded like someone who knew what he was talking about.

McCain looked like a Senator. Obama looked like a President.

I am totally encouraged by the "common man" polls, focus groups -- everyone I've read about has been in Obama's favor by far more than the margin of error.

Steve - you have an obvious typo. In the 3rd stat, 49% + 55% = 104%, which is impossible.

As for myself, I also tend to grade Obama with an A- & Mc Cain an iffy B. But neither of us are the "normal" voter. My guess would be most low info voters will see this debate as a draw. I think it is safe to assume that anyone who is undecided at this point would be a low info voter.

Informed people have already made up their minds. Less informed but thoughtful people have pretty much made up their minds. What is at really at play, and will determine the outcome, are the uninformed, and not too thoughtful. With these Obama, I fear, has lost.

That the selection of Sarah Palin did not sink McCain like a stone (check out some descriptions of Wasilla, if you haven't visited Alaska), describes us. The videos of her church, and the Kenyan exorcist praying over her, would not be believed in Europe. Not believed.

We are not as a nation what we who frequent these blogs would like to think. And Obama is failing us, by not recognizing what he needs to do. He should have smashed McCain - his lies, his totally erratic, bellicose and completely irresponsible behavior. He did not. He allowed McCain to win this debate with the group that matters. The consequences will not be happy.

It could have not gone better for Obama tonight, but I digress. (If you think I am optimist you are dead wrong, not by nature).

What you had to see was Biden on CNN. I don't want to hear any more shit about Biden. That fucker kicked McCain's teeth in tonight. He really was unbelieveable. If you didn't see it, go watch the video (links are beyond my pay grade).

Obama won the election tonight. Biden assisted with the coup de grace. It is a thing of beauty.

I felt Obama started to gain momentum when he repeatedly pointed out McCain being WRONG on going into Iraq. That's when, in my view, Obama started to pull ahead. I felt McCain spent too much time talking about the Surge, and repeating the argument that Obama didn't support it, while Obama got his point across PLUS went on to talk about our standing in the world and other things. Another area where I think McCain didn't do so well was when he listed off all the wars and invasions he supported. What point was he trying to make? Does he believe we are a nation that wants to always be invading other countries? Does he think the average American supports more war? And then I really took notice when Obama looked into the camera and when he looked at McCain. The body language stood out to me as being a plus for Obama. Maybe not a huge win, but enough that I was very excited at the end of the debate.

McCain: "I'm a Maverick."

Proper Response: "One who never can get anything done because he is hated by his own caucus."

McCain argues that he stands up to porkbarrel spending. But Obama needs to point out that McCain never really manages to stop any.

McCain: "Why Can't you acknowledge the Surge was a success."

Proper response: "Because if the Surge was a success we'd be out of Iraq and not spending $10,000,000,000 a month there. You're the one who says we can't leave even now, so you are the one who says the 'success' is anything but one."

Why can't Obama make that point. On one hand McCain the "Vets for Freedom" say Acknowledge the Surge was a success. On the other hand we still haven't gotten the number of troops down to pre-surge levels, much less reduce the number to a point where we can begin to rebuild the Army and Marines and support fully the mission in Afghanistan. How is that a success?

McCain: "Stop trying to make this about how we got into Iraq."

Proper Response: "Stop trying to make this about how we got out of Vietnam."

'Nuff said.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the racial overtones in McCain's continual mantra "Obama doesn't understand..."

Kudos to Obama for actually fighting back with intelligence, and not falling into the 'angry black man' trap McCain was trying to set up.

Get off the internet and go look at the polls. It will be as maddening to McCain folks as it was to Gore's folks, but Obama has been declared the winner, and that will be conventional wisdom my friends.

I thought they both did a great job. Undecided voters got a very substantive, stunt-free debate, which, given McCain's antics this week, I did not expect.

That being said, Obama wins on presidentiality, substance, intelligence, and style, McCain wins on down-to-earthiness. I was angry at how many times McCain said that Obama didn't understand or get it, and how Obama gave no response each time. But really, what response could he have given? "Yes I do!! I do so!" Not very effective. I think the fact that he was so obviously knowledgeable about the issues said it all.

Obama very much exceeded my expectations in his general delivery. One thing that really burns me up about him usually is that he stutters and stammers around so much and gives unnecessarily long winded answers. He largely cut that out and gave clear, cogent answers that didn't go over people's heads.

He really does need to stop agreeing with McCain so much and stop shaking his head and smiling when he disagreed with him. He needs a better strategy of dealing with McCain when he talks on and on and interrupts.

Obama B+
McCain B

It should have been a knockout, but it wasn't. And the one thing everybody is calling McCain's gaffe was the most surprisingl;y accurate statement he made. Pakistan was a failed state before Musharraf. Both "Democratic Parties" were kleptocracies -- with the Sainted Benazir a main culprit -- the ISI and the clerical establishment and the business establishment were holding things together in the absence of any real central Government. And I can assure you that neither party would have helped us in Afghanistan after 9/11 because of their dependence on hard-line Muslim support. (The "Bush did it" or "the Mossad did it" myths first surfaced in Pakistan.) And nobody has or had any control over the NWFP except the local clerics.

Musharraf outstayed his welcome and became a 'thug' yes, but he was a major improvement over what went before.

G Hazeltine -

The uninformed are generally going to vote with their friends and family either way and no debate or convention would change that. They probably didn't even watch the debate, hence why they remain uninformed.

The big reason there's a lot of undecided right now is because Obama's an unknown to those who don't pay a lot of attention. I don't see how he hurt himself what that group. He carried himself well, he answered questions confidently and displayed his knowledge.

Obama won tonite among women voters 59-31.

Musharraf outstayed his welcome and became a 'thug' yes, but he was a major improvement over what went before. -Prup

Zardari isn't much better, since he's as corrupt as they come. Now he's showboating for rest of the world and needling our troops trying to goad us into war with a nuclear power.

Scary, scary shit.

"Obama won tonite among women voters 59-31."

This is HUGE.

I'm already hung over. Seriously. have a splitting headach. I clearly drank too much too fast judging by others reactions.

HUSTLER?

Wikipedia: Hustling is the deceptive act of disguising one's skill in a sport or game with the intent of luring someone of probably lesser skill into gambling (or gambling for higher than current stakes) with the hustler, as a form of confidence trick.... A skilled hustler may pretend to be intoxicated, unintelligent, or otherwise impaired (that is, until it is time to run the table or make a game-winning shot).

What if Sarah Palin has been coached to deliberately low-ball her interview performances with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric so that she can pull a stunning reversal during the vice-presidential debate and come off as (comparatively) sharp, knowledgeable and articulate?

My overall reaction was that Jim Lehrer did a superb job. I'd give him an A+. Terrific questions, incisive follow-up and flexible but firm control of the candidates.

My second reaction was that, because of Lehrer's moderation, both candidates had every chance to present their views to the best of their ability. I think both candidates did so quite effectively, avoiding major gaffes, talking to their own strengths and countering their opponents where possible.

Ultimately, therefore my perception of who "won" the debate came down to the substance of their arguments, and to a lesser degree, their presentation and style in presenting them. I think McCain did a credible job of presenting his arguments, policies and history as well as he could. Ultimately, though he cannot escape the Bush legacy and his complicity in the administration's policies. His arrogance, dismissiveness and body language were, however, extremely off-putting. It was just ugly to watch. Obama did an equally good job of presenting his arguments, policies, history and, unfortunately for McCain, the facts on the ground both economically and internationally, overwhelmingly favour Obama's positions. By contrast with McCain's almost visceral contempt, Obama maintained a personable, cool, good-humored civility that did him great credit. He was very strong, often masterful in rebuttal, but remained steadfastly polite. McCain lost, not because he debated badly, but because his positions are untenable and his temperament was revealed. He kept saying the American people knew him, but I think many of them saw him last night for the very first time for what he really is - an angry, arrogant dismissive old man with a patrician sense of entitlement, old ideas, worn out schtick and seething contempt for anyone who dares to disagree or call him out on his almost reflexive dishonesty. I'd give Obama a solid A, and McCain a generous B-.

Obama achieved the minimum: displaying knowledge of the issues and contrasting his approach toward those issues.

However, I agree that he missed a number of golden opportunities. He really needs to take some cues from Joe Biden, who came on Olbermann's show and ripped McCain from stem to stern. I can't wait for the next debate.

Meanwhile, in the Brooks/Collins piece on NYT, David Brooks has this:

What strikes me most about the House Republican position is the awesome chutzpah. Given all the uncertainty, they are still willing to stake out an astonishingly bold position that goes against the grain of conventional wisdom. If they are successful in blocking the Paulson approach and they are wrong, we will enter another Depression, the Republican Party will be blamed and the G.O.P. will cease to exist.

Sorry, for the very verst time ever, I find myself in complete agreement with Chris Matthews in his review of Obama's failure to connect.

I was really, seriously impressed with Joe Biden and what he said in his interview with Olbermann. He was focused, on-point, accurate, everything I didn't expect from him.

I was seriously underwhelmed by Obama and I hatehatehate saying that. I am old enough to have watched the first presidential debate, 48 years ago tonight, and I remember Kennedy looking cool and collected and Nixon covered with flop sweat.

I only wish Obama had done the same. He had two big chances to plant a large-caliber entry wound right between McCain's eyes, and didn't even try. First chance: McCain talks about how he's so in favor of environmental legislation to deal with global warming. Obama mentions - without detail - the energy bill in Congress.

Here's what Obama could have said:

"Senator McCain, back in June, we brought up the Lieberman-Warner Climate Security Act for a vote. It's a bill presented by your good friend Joe Lieberman. An opportunity to set America on course to develop alternative energy, to establish the cap and trade system you say you favor, to take a big step toward energy independence and dealing with global warming. Your fellow Republicans in the Senate decided to filibuster that bill. We had a bipartisan majority to pass it. We needed 60 votes to cut off that filibuster. The vote was 59-40. There was one member of the Senate not present. You. Your one vote that day could have changed history. But you were afraid of upsetting your far-right base, the people who - like your Vice-Presidential nominee - don't believe in global warming, as you say you do. Why did you do that, Senator McCain? And why do you lie to us now that you are strong on this issue when you avoided the opportunity to prove it?"

And then McCain gets into his sentimental "I'm a vet" bullshit and brings up the Great Vietnam Myth of the veteran who was spit on (it never happened, no one has ever found a single vet who can say "it happened to me"). McCain then went into talking about how "veterans can depend on me..."

Obama could have replied:

"Senator McCain, if you are such a strong supporter of veterans, why did you work to defeat the 21st Century GI Bill, which would improve benefits for our service members who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why did you offer amendments that would have wrecked it? And then - when it was clear there was a veto-proof bipartisan majority in support of it - why did you avoid voting on it? Where did you find the temerity to go and speak before veteran's organizations like the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and claim that you supported the bill you didn't support and worked to make it better when you worked to kill it? Why did you do that, Senator McCain? Why did you fail to support our troops and then lie to your fellow veterans?"

Trust me, with either one of those two torpedoes amidships, Wet-Start Johnny would have exploded, and America really would have seen "the real McCain."

Myself, I vote this debate a wash because Obama didn't take out McCain when he could have. I'm beginning to wonder if he actually has a political killer instinct, because I have yet to see it.

But it's obvious that Biden is going to kill Palin, and the American people are going to look at that and say "we want her a heartbeat away from the presidency????" So McCain may lose the election as a result of the debate he isn't in on.

"Submitted for your consideration..."

Sandwichman, you're suffering from post traumatic election disorder. One of the symptoms is to assume republican invincibility and to interpret even things that are clearly mistakes and brilliant ploys. Sarah Palin is a trainwreck. Don't worry about her.

I love that with the Internet, we now have the ability to go right to the clips at a site like this one: http://www.entertonement.com/tags/clips/4273?sort_by=date

And we can check what was said, fact check them for ourselves, and make our own decisions. I think this is bad for the Republicans, who are still campaigning like they did in 1980.

yeah Palin's a hustler. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Hustler's don't pretend to be dull normals. You can't win alot of money by sucking more than anyone who has stepped on the political stage in history and then being barely good. You have to be decent and then great. McCain almost pulled that off tonight. Palin? No fucking way.

McCain's calling Obama "naive" over and over was tiresome, as well as wrong. But after 8 years of Bush and Cheney's sneering at anyone who dared to oppose them, McCain's attitude towards Obama seemed positively respectful by comparison.

Both candidates were very vague in their responses to the early questions about the bailout and the budget. They were both better in the later questions about foreign policy. McCain was wrong about a lot of things, and pushed a fair number of lies, which Obama corrected. But it was refreshing to hear a Republican who actually knew what he was talking about, instead of Bush, who still sounds as if he's parroting back talking points he memorized just yesterday.

McCain made a very positive impression with his heart-felt statements about veterans. Obama was correct to praise McCain's stand against torture. McCain made the best impression when he was running against his own party and their record for the past 8 years.

I'd call it a draw.

Not even close, Hilz. You overrate both of them. I score Obama at a B and McCain at a C+ (better on style points overall, but I counted six clear lies for him to just one for Obama – not counting both of them lying about tax cuts we can’t afford).

Otherwise, TC in LA nails why I only give Obama a B. Whether from being in "bipartisan" mode with the bailout discussions or what, he, to redirect a phrase, wouldn't even swing at the dangling pinata. I thought of the Vets health funding issue immediately, too.

I thought Obama had the right idea with his closing, but, if there was EVER a moment to "connect," with the "son of an immigrant" story, that was it.

What if Sarah Palin has been coached to deliberately low-ball her interview performances

Yeah, what if it's all been a huge, cheap stunt, and she's actually a brilliant mastermind? Right, that's plausible, and beside there couldn't possibly be any drawbacks to that!

Think it through, sandwichdude. It'll put your fevered mind at ease.

So, even though it wasn't terribly successful and Obama didn't bite, the talking point and narrative of the 'angry black man' is hitting news outlets:

Embedded video from CNN Video

Watch the second pundit, the Republican one, offer up the point.

Here are the numbers Politico is quoting:
The two insta-polls out -- from CBS and CNN --: That Obama won by a wide margin. CBS had it 39% to 25% for Obama, CNN 51% to 38%.

Since the Republicans are convinced that McCain won, they obviously didn't count on the fact that independents - or non-partisans thought otherwise.

When I first watched I thought it a draw, but then my wife said "did you notice McCain never looked at Barack? I thought that was rude." At that moment I realized the night belonged to Obama. He appeared Presidential. I would follow him. I don't think I would follow the angry guy. No class.

Here's what Politico is quoting: The two insta-polls out -- from CBS and CNN --: That Obama won by a wide margin. CBS had it 39% to 25% for Obama, CNN 51% to 38%.

Looks like the Republicans who claim that McCain's winning didn't count on non-partisans not even agreeing with them at all

bah, my video link I offered above doesn't direct to the correct pundit interviews:

javascript:CNNPlaylistManager.getInstance().BVPMVideoSelected('/video/politics/2008/09/26/sot.debate.analysts.reaction.cnn.json','by_section_politics');

Here it is, less elegantly.

One of the stunning things to me about the debate is that McCain kept saying "I have been here, I have been there, I have been to this place, ..." as though that experience is a critical criterion for being President. Yet, he has picked a running mate who has not been anywhere and, by his own criterion, is therefore unqualified for the job.

McCain's attitude toward Obama and his combative tone on the issue of negotiations set off alarm bells in my head that yet another war is a all but certain in the next four years if McCain comes into power.

While I though Obama could have clubbed McCain over the head on a number of issues, he came across as very competent, smart and able to equal McCain in his vaunted knowledge of international affairs.

Considering this debate should have been McCain's ace in the hole and the veep debate looks to be a slaughter, McCain didn't dig himself out of the hole of wackiness he dug this week and that hole looks to get bigger in the coming weeks.

This debate reminds me of the putback people can use when they are called stupid: "I may be stupid now but I can learn and you'll still be ugly." Barack can work on his delivery and take cues about needing to connect with people (he was the only one to look into the cameras to connect with the TV audience) but McCain will still stay an angry old man.

Chris Mathews is all over McGrumpy's not looking at Obama. Is asking everyone about it.

Fineman on Hardball says McLame didn't look at Obama because he didn't want to acknowledge him. A woman outside the hall at Old Miss interviewed by Chris Mathews at the end of his show (the one after the debate) says she thought McLame didn't look at Obama because he would lose his temper if he did. Interesting point. McLame had to keep himself contained within to keep his cool. That woman may very well be right. Too bad she's not a TV pundit.

What Debate you were watching? You cannot fool all the perole all the time. McCain wons this debate hands down and 62% of people agreed to that.

What Debate you were watching? You cannot fool all the perole all the time. McCain wons this debate hands down and 62% of people agreed to that.

Well, McCain’s quick off the draw. Because I gave him $50 8 years ago against for his campaign against Dubya, I’m still on his mailing list and his post-debate email just hit my inbox. After the normal “wasn’t that debate great for America� invocation, he brags:

“In a few hours, I will return to Washington to resume negotiations with the Administration and Congressional leaders from both parties to forge a bipartisan solution to our economic crisis.�

Wunneful. Just shoot me now. Please.

Myself, I vote this debate a wash because Obama didn't take out McCain when he could have. I'm beginning to wonder if he actually has a political killer instinct, because I have yet to see it.

Why on earth would you try to land a knockout blow in the first of three debates? It's not like they would cancel the other two if he did.

You want to land your knockout blow in the last debate, not the first, so that's what people remember as they go to the polls.

If we've seen nothing else from Obama this entire campaign season (and I'm including the primary campaign) we've seen that he holds back and waits for the best time to strike. Debate #1 of 3 is not the best time.

Agree with some of the above:

On substance, they were roughly equal.

On style, the angry white guy lost.

The coolly commanding black guy won.

He did not need to kick McCain in the groin, that is Biden's job.

ska @ 1:09,

Yes, that jumped out for me too. You might call it subliminal subordination.

It was hard to remember as I watched that the people that most need to be influenced are those straddling the fence. I am guilty of giving people too much credit. It was driving me and my wife crazy whenever Obama said "John is right..." and equally whenever McLame said Obama "just doesn't understand..."

Obama cannot say that McCrab is right. And he has to throw back something like, "what John doesn't understand is..."

It is the framing that gets to these people in the middle. I would love to give more credit to the American fence straddlers. But I cannot. I'd say that it was mostly a draw.

Considering that this is McCain's supposed advantage subject, that might be ok, but the Obama camp must learn for the next debate, and throw that phrasing back in McWad's face.

I think he can do that, and still maintain his Presidential bearing, but he needs to be better prepared to do so. All in all, I am disappointed, but that is mainly because I think that he faces difficult odds based on my lack of confidence that Americans can ultimately vote without race being a factor.

I love Obama but I honestly thought he came off a little weak and nerdy. He has to relax a little and find his MoJo. Yes, that's right,his MoJo. He has to stop ending his statements with a little glance towards McCain because it makes him look like a kid.McCain not looking at Obama is a status play and the person with the most status looks the most Presidential.

All in all I think McCain connected better.

Remember, GWB was a douche nozzle in all his debates and it still didn't make a damn.

Old Coot had to score tonight to recover from the past week's lunacy. Chances are he'll stir up more shit next week, which will most certainly negate any ground gained.

And then comes Sarah's turn.

BTW: I learned this fact: John McCain didn't just marry into money. Roberta McCain was an oil heiress! This guy has zero connection to us real Merkins.

Another thing learned but OT: WAMU's CEO Alan Fishman, hired 3 weeks ago, received a 7 mil hiring bonus and something in the neighborhood of 20 mil as a severance package.

Go here for the ugly details.

If you're weren't pissed before this should boil your blood.

Unfuckingbelievable!

TCinLA: good points. Hopefully Obama will say those in one of the next two debates.

Jon Stolz of VetVotes says that they will hammer McLame over his non-support of vets. Now that Obama is allowing 527s I expect we'll see their ads.

The contempt was indeed palpable and I sense it comes from a place,in McCain, of entitlement to the position of US President. His attitude wasn't one of trying to win undecided voters but of absolute intolerance that anyone could think he wasn't the natural choice. Ugly.

Analysts have to stop getting down in the weeds to the point where Obama looks "bloodless" unless he's chewing on a piece of straw and talking with a twang. The guy is smart: what's wrong with electing the smart guy president for once? McCain might have experience - and I question whether it's of any substantial value, given his continual reversals on every position - but he is simply not as smart as Obama, not as well-educated and sophisticated. Why do the voters, time and time again, persist in sending some yee-haw hillbilly to represent the country abroad; like they're rubbing foreigners' noses in the apparent fact that you can be a clueless boob and social hand-grenade, and still rise to the highest office in the United States?

John McCain is exactly the kind of sarcastic know-it-all that the leaders - and the press - of foreign countries love to mock. It makes them comfortable to think that, even though they might not have the population, capital or standard of living America does, at least their leader doesn't have a room-temperature IQ, and doesn't come across in interviews like a talking pile of assholes.

Obama could make America proud, given the chance; could make even the terminally numb who won't vote for him because of his colour grudgingly acknowledge that he makes America look informed and energetic.

Bush proved that all it takes is a frat-house sense of humour and a big mouth. America liked it, for a while. The rest of the world - not so much. Hopefully the charm of the idiot as leader has worn off.

Missing from BOTH CANDIDATES --
Any discussion about today's Senate vote on the $25 mil in payola to the Formerly Big Three, as a reward for decades of antienvironmental instransigence.

Prup and Doubtful are right about Pakistan, which is why Juan Cole is right that Obama's an idiot for wanting to commit more troops to Afghanistan.

Hannah... bout time on 527s. Obama should have hade them out 3 wks ago, going after The Alaskan Addams Family's NOT so Religious Right personal issues. (That said, I still think he's a control freak at times.)

What do you expect on issues No. 1 and 2? This is the duopoly in corporate-sponsored debates.

I know the Green Party opposes the auto bailout, and pounding sand down a rathole in Afghanistan.

So does Ted Rall. We need the money spent on BOTH wars to fix shit back here.

Oh, and both candidates perpetuated lies about Ahmadinejad, too. Read Juan Cole on the diff between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.

I really think people are missing the larger tactic here. McCain wasn't just trying to question Obama's experience and knowledge with his harping "What Senator Obama doesn't understand..."

McCain wasn't just trying to show contempt toward Obama by not looking at him.

McCain wasn't just trying to mock Obama with his snide giggles and sighs.

McCain was trying to make Obama ANGRY. He's playing a racial game that preys on many people's fears of the 'angry black man.'

I hope to heaven that Obama and his campaign realizes this. That's not to say refrain from anger, but any anger shown must be measured and appropriate.

I'm kind of in agreement with Thripshaw @ 1:32. I listened to the whole debate from the other room, so I may have missed a lot of the body language and "appearances" cues that a lot of posters here are talking about. But mainly I was distressed over how many times Obama said that "John McCain is right about ..." xyz. He needs to never say that phrase again in public. If he thinks McCain is right about something, Obama should just not talk about what McCain said on that point, but instead restate his own position, and then point out the historical record of where McCain has taken positions in complete opposition to what he just said.
I also think that Obama should avoid arguing about the surge and focus on the victory question. AlQaeda in Iraq has been a non-issue for months. If victory is not already achieved then what the heck is the definition of victory? Five years and close to a trillion dollars, and what has "victory" gained us? Make it clear that the only thing McCain can sell as "success" is that some people can say we achieved "victory". All we have won for the blood and treasure is a stupid little ego word.
Obama also needs to get crisper and clearer with some basic, easy-to-understand talking points about his own tax plan vs McCains. Most normal people will end up paying higher taxes under the McCain plan. Obama need to hammer that home.
And Obama needs to do a better job of associating McCain with the republican policies that have gotten us in this mess. McCain is trying to remake himself as an anti-Republican Republican. He must not be allowed to get away with that baloney. Deficits, deficits, deficits. That stuff has been a contributor to the financial crisis we are in. And McCain is still solidly in the trickle down camp.
Finally, I want to know how many millions in "pork" have gone to Arizona. Is McCain really that clean on that score?

And Obama needs to do a better job of associating McCain with the republican policies that have gotten us in this mess.

This would be correct if the debates were solely on intellectual, rhetorical matters.

But they're not.

Gotta remember that.

I'd give Obama a B- and McCain a B+. I'm glad that others didn't see it my way. I hope Obama finds a counterpunch to McCain's hits that Obama is naive or "doesn't understand." McCain looked alternatively like he was doing a thousand-yard stare or getting ready to explode, but his delivery actually sounded normal, even cordial at times.

Obama wins on policy, but I'm not sure that's what most viewers are using that as the criteria.

Obama needs to loosen up, use more anecdotal responses and call McCain out when he lies, which happened several times on critical issues, like torture.

Lazy me hasn't read through this thread yet.

In any case has it been noted how possessed of "GOTCHA" politics McCain was? He constantly tried to tie BO to extreme interpretations of his quotes, votes and public utterances. The lawyerlyness of the whole thing must have shone through to even the most hidebound viewers.

both cbs and nbc polls gave the night to obama by big margins. i saw it as reasonably close on substance. my guess is that obama gets the decision on style. he looked presidential while mccain stood there and smirked at everything obama said. and while obama may have over done it a tad with the "i agree with John" bit, it did show him to be more reasonable, willing to give credit to the other side and willing to reach out to the other side (want a sure-fire way to lose an argument, call your opponent a moron. want to have at least some chance of turning him to your side, acknowledge where you agree before pointing out the flaws in his beliefs). mccain by contrast showed the opposite by failing even to acknowledge obama during the debate with so much as a glance. the two underscored this at the end of the debate when obama walked over to mccain to shake his hand. mccain had to turn toward obama as if he were not even thinking about so much as a tiny gesture of civility. in any debate, substance matters but so does style.

Stop crying. Obama didn't need to beat McCain. Everyone knows McCain is more experienced. Its about rather Obama was McCain's almost equal on foreign affairs. And that was a success.

McCain opened himself up with that Pakistan BS, about Obama wanted to attacked Pakistan. In which Obama countered with McCain's "bomb bomb Iran" quote, and than explained what he really said.

Obama problem is not that people don't like him, its that regular people think he's kinda soft, not that he doesn't get certain subjects or issues.

And you guys will see it in the polls. This is a early John McCain supporter talking. I'm not a Obama homer. But that Palin pick pissed me off. If McCain would've picked Romney I wouldn't be here talking to you guys. Calm down. McCain doesn't have his base around him. One mistake and he could easily lose more of it.

The VP debate will give Obama mid double digits. Palin is fken retarded. She scares the hell out of me.

Thanks, Jackson. I feel better already. Please come back and post anytime.

The following may well be more wishful hoping on my part than justified analysis, but it seems to me that Obama is operating under way more more constraints than a white candidate, but that he did really well within those constraints. Also, what he precluded seems even more important than what he accomplished.

If he'd attacked hard, we'd be hearing endless worries/complaints about supposedly "angry black men", on the order of 'I don't know, he just seems so angry" or "just not someone I'd be comfortable having a beer with", or even 'he wasn't properly respectful.' To appeal to the nervous middle who haven't quite come to terms with the idea of a non-white president, Obama needed to come off as non-threatening, but convincingly presidential, knowledgeable, take-no-guff, and in control. He did that perfectly. He defended himself very strongly, which is acceptable and justifiable even to people with racial issues (indeed, failing to defend oneself would be read as a sign of weakness). However, numerous times he all but went out of his way not to attack McCain personally, to compliment him, to agree with him far more than was necessary, and generally to 'be respectful'. That had to be a conscious decision, and upon reflection I'm thinking it was wise. McCain's failings and vulnerabilities will be no less a problem for McCain tomorrow even if Obama didn't thrust a sharp knife into each and every one last night. Thus Obama spent his time being reassuring and presidential, so that Biden and other surrogates can fillet McCain over the next week without making Obama seem aggressive and scary. Obama just needed to convince about half of the people who were looking for excuses not to support the black guy that the likely easy excuses aren't valid. You know the Republicans are going to push racial fears and the inexperience argument in the next month, but Obama just made both of those claims far less credible. Moreover, as others have said, this is just the first debate. It would be consistent with how Obama has run his entire campaign if he views this as still just laying groundwork and easing people up to where they can start supporting him. I think he went for loading the bases rather than swinging for a home run.

You bet Devil Dog.

Want y'all should understand is this. McCain's whole campaign is one of smoke and mirrors. Its a fken race baiting one at that. Thats another reason McCain lost me. I don't like to be played. And McCain is playing me.

Don't get me wrong Obama's muslim father scares me. But he's Kenyan and he left when Obama was fken two years old. He's liberal, but what do you expect his mother was a hippie. But make no mistake about it. This whole election is about fears. Though McCain and Palin scares me more.

The old McCain doesn't exist anymore. He's a fken neocon puppet. McCain's camp will play on people fears because thats all that got.

But Obama showed his stuff tonight. And Biden came in on every news program after and cut McCain.

I analyzed the words and sentences which Obama, McCain and—why not?—Lehrer used in the debate. Have a look at the bubble graph (no. of words and length of sentences and words). I also made "word clouds." Interesting! Go to my Word Face-Off blog to view.

You know, this is only the first of three polls, and we have a lot of volatility to face in the financial markets in the next two weeks.

I thought that there were two things that Obama had to demonstrate effectively tonight: 1.) Calm, assertive leader, and 2. And understanding that needling your opponent weakens them, not you. A good fighter maintains their standing, preserves their strength, and the hits at the appropriate level at the appropriate time.

There's something that is simply critical to remember when fighting Republicans. Since they see themselves as superior, and America is essentially filled with people who see themselves as inferior, but have the capacity for vast improvement with just a little bit of help, the terms of the fame should naturally favor a Democratic view of matters.

In simpler terms, the Republicans always, ALWAYS, give you everything you need to beat them. Every. Single. Time. You just have to listen carefully and be patient.

So in the next debate, I would encourage folks to take their own set of notes, and start to view emerging patterns, just as a self-enrichment or story idea. Organize by topic, perceived strength of wekaness for a cnadidate, then rate according to how they did on the strength or weakness scale, what they missed and what they used to emphasize their point.

Within this grid is all of the information you will ned to beat them. It tells you where they think they are good, and are. Where they think they are good, and aren't. Find the weakness and underline the weakness, and reword their weakness so it comes out as your strength.

Works every well, eevery time.

Best to N. Wells,

Casey

You know, this is only the first of three polls, and we have a lot of volatility to face in the financial markets in the next two weeks.

I thought that there were two things that Obama had to demonstrate effectively tonight: 1.) Calm, assertive leader, and 2. And understanding that needling your opponent weakens them, not you. A good fighter maintains their standing, preserves their strength, and the hits at the appropriate level at the appropriate time.

There's something that is simply critical to remember when fighting Republicans. Since they see themselves as superior, and America is essentially filled with people who see themselves as inferior, but have the capacity for vast improvement with just a little bit of help, the terms of the fame should naturally favor a Democratic view of matters.

In simpler terms, the Republicans always, ALWAYS, give you everything you need to beat them. Every. Single. Time. You just have to listen carefully and be patient.

So in the next debate, I would encourage folks to take their own set of notes, and start to view emerging patterns, just as a self-enrichment or story idea. Organize by topic, perceived strength of wekaness for a cnadidate, then rate according to how they did on the strength or weakness scale, what they missed and what they used to emphasize their point.

Within this grid is all of the information you will ned to beat them. It tells you where they think they are good, and are. Where they think they are good, and aren't. Find the weakness and underline the weakness, and reword their weakness so it comes out as your strength.

Works every well, eevery time.

Best to N. Wells,

Casey

For more opinions on McCain's non-eye contact read this, especially the reader comments... especially the SECOND reader (TB) comment:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/220226.php

Yikes!

I wish that Obama had countered McCain a bit more. He did take him on about voting against alternative energy 20+ times. When McCain got all maudlin about supporting the vets he could have cited his many votes against the vets, though that might have been tricky because of the emotional aspects. When McCain dinged him about saying both Russia and Georgia should back down he could have asked McCain "You do know that Georgia started this don't you? After all your campaign manager was the main lobbyist for Georgia until early this year." but perhaps that was too much of a gotcha.

Obama did a good job of looking presidential, McCain did not. Obama should look directly into the camera more.

One woman interviewed after the debate said she thought that Obama impressed her more because he was talking about what he was going to do to fix things while McCain was rehashing history. That's probably a good point. If he engages people with how he will shape their futures that is better than trading barbs with McCain.

I have to add. That the reason McCain pulled that stunt Wednesday was because of Rick Davis' lobbyist firm problems, and lets not forget Campbell Brown's sexist rant on McCain and his camp about their treatment of Palin. The media was already in revolt. Everyone was calling them liars, Conservative op ed writers was dissing them, they had to something.

Those was fken campaign killers. He had to kill that news cycle. They were already losing in the polls both nationally and state to state.

P.S. The two most important states in this election is Colorado and Virginia. Fk the rest. Obama is not going to lose any of Kerry states. They always come home to the dems. Kerry was soft and got swiftboated and still won them. McCain might get NH though.

And read the polls posted here:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/initial_polls_show_obama_winni.php

Obama shoots and he scores!

And now that it's 1 am PDT, I'm off to sleep... and looking forward to Steve and hilzoy's Saturday comments!

Interesting commments, Jackson. Thx.

JohnK, Obama is handicapped. McCain knows it, just like Clinton did. Obama can't come off to nasty, or to negative. He has to be Bill Cosby. He has no choice.

I hate the huffingtonpost, to many wackos on there for my taste. But I glanced overthere tonight to see what they was saying, and it were a bunch of hollywood weirdos like Paul fken Reiser saying Obama should've attacked more.

Obama is black!!! He can't off uppity. He's going against a war hero. A disgusting POS, but still a war hero. And I understand that.

P.S. This is a ex-McCain supporter talking. But he's revealed himself to be a lying pos.

McCain never looks at the hired help and he doesn't like to tolerate their talking back at him... Now since Obama is black its easy to see how he had a senior moment and got confused about Obama's role.

Obama established himself as a credible contender tonight. No theatrics, just solid explanations of Democratic policy-making priorities. None of McCain's jabs hit their mark but McCain sounded like a broken record with that whiny, "What my opponent doesn't seem to understand is that . . ." Obama showed he clearly did understand.

And what's with the lack of eye contact? McCain was disrespectful. Obama was gracious. Obama made the the better impression that he could be bipartisan, regularly mentioning where he agreed with McCain and not creating contrived differences. McCain looked and sounded confrontational, like Bush only older.

Obama won on both style and substance. I'm re-watching the debate on CSPAN now - it's a split screen - and it seems the camera person is struggling (and losing) with making Obama and McCain appear the same height. McCain's head is higher than Obama's making him appear taller. (LOL)!

You just might not be a comedian, if your delivery of a potentially excellent line is so bad that nobody even notices that you flubbed it. 'Was the bear DNA investigation spurred by questions of criminality or paternity?' That is a good one, although certainly a bit dry the taste of John's heehaw, yeeehaaa base.

Obama: B+
McCain: B-
Biden: A+++++++++++++++++++
Palin: unexcused absence

“ Obama gets The McCain beat down in debate�

No doubt Obama camp is happy they kept lowering expectations for his debate performance because Obama got his clock cleaned by John McCain who kept the young inexperienced candidate looking immature and childish talking in circles. All Obama could do was interrupt with bogus claims of "lying" and looks of frustration and despair. (Not a good performer, unless someone writes a pre-written speech for Obama to study or read on teleprompter) On Iraq and all else, Obama keeps looking to the past instead of the future? Where’s the change Obama? McCain understands the next president has to look to the future and secure not only victory but also stabilizing a fledgling democracy. Obama kept up his all season stupid rhetoric, the war was wrong, the war is wrong, I’m black that makes me qualified to be president!

Especially since he stupidly picked 30 years in Washington, pro war supporter Biden (whose son is a lobbyist) as VP. Slapping the face of 18 million democratic voters, who David Axelrod said he don’t need. Again proves Obama is unstable and does not have the experience to make important decisions or have control over this great country.

Obama said seven times or more that he agreed with McCain. That’s good for McCain because when McCain is President Obama can work with him to get needed reforms through a failed Congress. McCain displayed a thorough knowledge of world affairs. Obama did not! And talked in circles and really had no coherent thoughts other than his main talking points from his pre-written campaign speech.

Bottom line; Obama got “ The McCain beat down� only because of the lowered expectations Obama just barely got across the finish line. Obama definitely finished dead last. No surprise we all know Obama is not good on his feet, as Hillary wiped the floor with him 20 plus times! Bottom line McCain had a great night while Obama is going home licking his wounds. Of course you can expect to hear the tabloid cable news , better known as Obama News Networks CNN & MSNBC media made fairy tales, that he was great, too bad for CNN that voters finally realized these two Obama news networks are not very truthful and bias. They offer voters looking for facts…NOTHING…

“ Obama gets The McCain beat down in debate�

No doubt Obama camp is happy they kept lowering expectations for his debate performance because Obama got his clock cleaned by John McCain who kept the young inexperienced candidate looking immature and childish talking in circles. All Obama could do was interrupt with bogus claims of "lying" and looks of frustration and despair. (Not a good performer, unless someone writes a pre-written speech for Obama to study or read on teleprompter) On Iraq and all else, Obama keeps looking to the past instead of the future? Where’s the change Obama? McCain understands the next president has to look to the future and secure not only victory but also stabilizing a fledgling democracy. Obama kept up his all season stupid rhetoric, the war was wrong, the war is wrong, I’m black that makes me qualified to be president!

Especially since he stupidly picked 30 years in Washington, pro war supporter Biden (whose son is a lobbyist) as VP. Slapping the face of 18 million democratic voters, who David Axelrod said he don’t need. Again proves Obama is unstable and does not have the experience to make important decisions or have control over this great country.

Obama said seven times or more that he agreed with McCain. That’s good for McCain because when McCain is President Obama can work with him to get needed reforms through a failed Congress. McCain displayed a thorough knowledge of world affairs. Obama did not! And talked in circles and really had no coherent thoughts other than his main talking points from his pre-written campaign speech.

Bottom line; Obama got “ The McCain beat down� only because of the lowered expectations Obama just barely got across the finish line. Obama definitely finished dead last. No surprise we all know Obama is not good on his feet, as Hillary wiped the floor with him 20 plus times! Bottom line McCain had a great night while Obama is going home licking his wounds. Of course you can expect to hear the tabloid cable news , better known as Obama News Networks CNN & MSNBC media made fairy tales, that he was great, too bad for CNN that voters finally realized these two Obama news networks are not very truthful and bias. They offer voters looking for facts…NOTHING…

“ Obama gets The McCain beat down in debate�

No doubt Obama camp is happy they kept lowering expectations for his debate performance because Obama got his clock cleaned by John McCain who kept the young inexperienced candidate looking immature and childish talking in circles. All Obama could do was interrupt with bogus claims of "lying" and looks of frustration and despair. (Not a good performer, unless someone writes a pre-written speech for Obama to study or read on teleprompter) On Iraq and all else, Obama keeps looking to the past instead of the future? Where’s the change Obama? McCain understands the next president has to look to the future and secure not only victory but also stabilizing a fledgling democracy. Obama kept up his all season stupid rhetoric, the war was wrong, the war is wrong, I’m black that makes me qualified to be president!

Especially since he stupidly picked 30 years in Washington, pro war supporter Biden (whose son is a lobbyist) as VP. Slapping the face of 18 million democratic voters, who David Axelrod said he don’t need. Again proves Obama is unstable and does not have the experience to make important decisions or have control over this great country.

Obama said seven times or more that he agreed with McCain. That’s good for McCain because when McCain is President Obama can work with him to get needed reforms through a failed Congress. McCain displayed a thorough knowledge of world affairs. Obama did not! And talked in circles and really had no coherent thoughts other than his main talking points from his pre-written campaign speech.

Bottom line; Obama got “ The McCain beat down� only because of the lowered expectations Obama just barely got across the finish line. Obama definitely finished dead last. No surprise we all know Obama is not good on his feet, as Hillary wiped the floor with him 20 plus times! Bottom line McCain had a great night while Obama is going home licking his wounds. Of course you can expect to hear the tabloid cable news , better known as Obama News Networks CNN & MSNBC media made fairy tales, that he was great, too bad for CNN that voters finally realized these two Obama news networks are not very truthful and bias. They offer voters looking for facts…NOTHING…

“ Obama gets The McCain beat down in debate�

No doubt Obama camp is happy they kept lowering expectations for his debate performance because Obama got his clock cleaned by John McCain who kept the young inexperienced candidate looking immature and childish talking in circles. All Obama could do was interrupt with bogus claims of "lying" and looks of frustration and despair. (Not a good performer, unless someone writes a pre-written speech for Obama to study or read on teleprompter) On Iraq and all else, Obama keeps looking to the past instead of the future? Where’s the change Obama? McCain understands the next president has to look to the future and secure not only victory but also stabilizing a fledgling democracy. Obama kept up his all season stupid rhetoric, the war was wrong, the war is wrong, I’m black that makes me qualified to be president!

Especially since he stupidly picked 30 years in Washington, pro war supporter Biden (whose son is a lobbyist) as VP. Slapping the face of 18 million democratic voters, who David Axelrod said he don’t need. Again proves Obama is unstable and does not have the experience to make important decisions or have control over this great country.

Obama said seven times or more that he agreed with McCain. That’s good for McCain because when McCain is President Obama can work with him to get needed reforms through a failed Congress. McCain displayed a thorough knowledge of world affairs. Obama did not! And talked in circles and really had no coherent thoughts other than his main talking points from his pre-written campaign speech.

Bottom line; Obama got “ The McCain beat down� only because of the lowered expectations Obama just barely got across the finish line. Obama definitely finished dead last. No surprise we all know Obama is not good on his feet, as Hillary wiped the floor with him 20 plus times! Bottom line McCain had a great night while Obama is going home licking his wounds. Of course you can expect to hear the tabloid cable news , better known as Obama News Networks CNN & MSNBC media made fairy tales, that he was great, too bad for CNN that voters finally realized these two Obama news networks are not very truthful and bias. They offer voters looking for facts…NOTHING…

“ Obama gets The McCain beat down in debate�

No doubt Obama camp is happy they kept lowering expectations for his debate performance because Obama got his clock cleaned by John McCain who kept the young inexperienced candidate looking immature and childish talking in circles. All Obama could do was interrupt with bogus claims of "lying" and looks of frustration and despair. (Not a good performer, unless someone writes a pre-written speech for Obama to study or read on teleprompter) On Iraq and all else, Obama keeps looking to the past instead of the future? Where’s the change Obama? McCain understands the next president has to look to the future and secure not only victory but also stabilizing a fledgling democracy. Obama kept up his all season stupid rhetoric, the war was wrong, the war is wrong, I’m black that makes me qualified to be president!

Especially since he stupidly picked 30 years in Washington, pro war supporter Biden (whose son is a lobbyist) as VP. Slapping the face of 18 million democratic voters, who David Axelrod said he don’t need. Again proves Obama is unstable and does not have the experience to make important decisions or have control over this great country.

Obama said seven times or more that he agreed with McCain. That’s good for McCain because when McCain is President Obama can work with him to get needed reforms through a failed Congress. McCain displayed a thorough knowledge of world affairs. Obama did not! And talked in circles and really had no coherent thoughts other than his main talking points from his pre-written campaign speech.

Bottom line; Obama got “ The McCain beat down� only because of the lowered expectations Obama just barely got across the finish line. Obama definitely finished dead last. No surprise we all know Obama is not good on his feet, as Hillary wiped the floor with him 20 plus times! Bottom line McCain had a great night while Obama is going home licking his wounds. Of course you can expect to hear the tabloid cable news , better known as Obama News Networks CNN & MSNBC media made fairy tales, that he was great, too bad for CNN that voters finally realized these two Obama news networks are not very truthful and bias. They offer voters looking for facts…NOTHING…

“ Obama gets The McCain beat down in debate�

No doubt Obama camp is happy they kept lowering expectations for his debate performance because Obama got his clock cleaned by John McCain who kept the young inexperienced candidate looking immature and childish talking in circles. All Obama could do was interrupt with bogus claims of "lying" and looks of frustration and despair. (Not a good performer, unless someone writes a pre-written speech for Obama to study or read on teleprompter) On Iraq and all else, Obama keeps looking to the past instead of the future? Where’s the change Obama? McCain understands the next president has to look to the future and secure not only victory but also stabilizing a fledgling democracy. Obama kept up his all season stupid rhetoric, the war was wrong, the war is wrong, I’m black that makes me qualified to be president!

Especially since he stupidly picked 30 years in Washington, pro war supporter Biden (whose son is a lobbyist) as VP. Slapping the face of 18 million democratic voters, who David Axelrod said he don’t need. Again proves Obama is unstable and does not have the experience to make important decisions or have control over this great country.

Obama sai