Weapon of Mass Depression.

It should fail, but it won't. Too much politics, too much fear. Too much money.

I think the republicans will not vote for it so that they can screw the democrats.

I bet it passes. Super-genius McCain probably pooched opposition to it for the House Republicans.

>who many might turn to for guidance on whether the bill should pass or not

It would be nice if some, of that "many" were what is purported to be our representative Congress.

guess that few lawmakers actually care about Bush's arm-twisting right now.

Bush has zero credibility with anyone in Congress or elsewhere at this point.

The sad thing is that no matter how intelligent or well-meaning a Congressman is, in the back of his mind he has to be asking himself, can I sell this to people who don't have the capacity to understand it. The only way Republicans can keep up the illusion that they are not at fault is to vote no to whatever bill comes along. But they also have to hope that others do act.

Has anyone read an economist's suggestion that could sell?

arrgh, "were *in* what is"... only 1/2 way thru my coffee so far...

"Nobody wants to have to support this bill," said Rep. John A. Boehner, R-Ohio, the House minority leader. But he said he was urging "every member whose conscience will allow them to support this" to do so.

With this statement, Boehner's given cover to every Republican who will suddenly find a big honking conscience where no signs of one have ever existed.

The only way Republicans can keep up the illusion that they are not at fault is to vote no to whatever bill comes along. But they also have to hope that others do act.

Exactly. It's a giant game of chicken, but I suspect that their need to avoid blame will outweigh their fears of what may happen if this doesn't pass.

I've heard no mention of a signing statement.
Will Bush provide one and if so what will it change?

Elijah Cummings, D-Md:

A lot of people are going to hold their nose and vote for it, because they've been put in a bad position and they don't have any other option.

Parroting Krugman on his blog:

I’ll probably hold my nose and say OK — as long as it has broad Republican support.

And Brad Delong:

Hold Your Nose and Vote for Paulson Plan

You know I am ill with government by stink decree. Maybe our leaders should talk about putting paper bags over their heads instead. Which is all to say: Can't this nation smell a little better? Can't America do anything right anymore? If the Swedish model is better... then WTF?

It'll pass, dammitall. That's my prediction.

And it's a shame, because the Dems could set their asking price a lot higher. In particular, they could demand a bailout for the American people - extension of unemployment benefits, the 'second stimulus' package, SCHIP expansion - on top of what they've already agreed to, as the price of their support. Then they wouldn't have to hold their noses, or worry half so much about what their constituents would think of it.

They could even hike taxes on rich people to pay for the bailout: maybe pass a 45% bracket on incomes above $10M, or repeal the 2003 dividends/cap gains tax cut.

They've got the Administration over a barrel: Bush and Paulson have already said that the bailout is all but needed to save Western civilization. And the only way the Congressional Republicans can defeat a Dem bill is by a Senate filibuster.

And that would be one time that the Dems could make them actually filibuster, rather than merely block cloture, using that to show the nation just whose side the GOP is on. Make Roger Wicker and Norm Coleman and Mitch McConnell and other endangered Senate Republicans actually fight against such a bailout.

Politics ain't beanbag. I'm waiting for the Congressional Dems to figure this out.

Has anyone heard the Republicans actually support their argument that the current version is more tax-payer friendly than the last version?

The Hunt for Red State November:

Capt. Bart Mancuso: The hard part about playing chicken is knowin' when to flinch.

low-tech-cyclist:
I'm still hoping it doesn't pass. Republicans are often stubborn in a stupid way. And then your suggestions could come to pass.
I'll cross my fingers, even though here in Europe I'm not so immediately hit by the consequences. The pain of whatever happens in Washington will trickle all over the world.

I just got done listening to the latest, at long last subdued address by Fake Cowboy. As he carefully read out the prepared text, it was striking how, in the lull between each sentence, I found myself thinking "that was a whopper", "yep, that one's not true either". His voice was tired, as if he had finally grown weary of duplicity and waste.

Maybe it's finally settled home with him what a mess his administration has made of the country, and how snugly the millstone of that accomplishment will now be fixed round his neck.

As for the bailout, I guess we'll know the answer pretty soon.

I predict it will be tough just to get congressmen into the chamber to vote until they know how it will turn out. It could be a really long roll-call before they get a majority to even cast a vote. Profiles in courage, not.

WHy can't they lay it out in layman's terms- instead hiding behind arcane eco-doubletalk like TED Spread( trans-fatty?) and LIBOR and all those other jargonistic terms.

reduce it to Option A and Option B...whichever one helps the taxpayer more and rewards Wall St. less for it's bad behaviour should be he right one.

I don't claim to truly understand the various machinations of the situation (crisis?), but I think I understand the basic problems in practices and mindsets that got us here.

After watching the events unfold in Washington these last few days, frankly I don't completely trust anything I'm hearing.

On one hand, it appears that Congress is sincerely trying to deal with a problem that may or may not be as profound and immediate as we are being told. But on the other hand it seems that all of Congress is posturing, to various degrees and extents, for political advantage of one sort or another.

No one wants to be hung with the specter of fault for this mess. Others don't want to "screw" big business with attachments of oversight, regulations, and helping the "little guy." And everyone seems concerned with protecting their's and their party's asses from any blowback from the electorate.

From my perspective, there's enough blame to go around for both parties, "wall street," and "main street" to have their fair share.

Everyone knows that it is fundamentally unfair to "rob" the coffers of "the people" to give to the scoundrels who are most at fault without equally bailing out everyone affected.

Instead, what we have is more of the same practice of taking care of those with the most money/power/influence and leaving the scraps for the rest. In a time where real leadership and courage is needed what we get is weakness, obfuscation, and/or corruption.

For decades I have believed that America's two party system is detrimental to our healthy future. It would be wonderful if as a result of this "mess" people started to understand that they need their own party (at least one and maybe even more) with equal power as the Republicans and Democrats to represent them since now they really have no meaningful representation.

This is so clear when one contrasts what people like Boehner, Pelosi, Shumer, McCain, and Obama say versus people like Nader or even Kucinich.

I Googled Warren Buffet to find his reaction, and he sees it as a golden opportunity. If only we could get him to manage it...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/24/warrenbuffett.wallstreet

His voice was tired, as if he had finally grown weary of duplicity and waste.

He's just a limp rag because he had to stay up past 8:30 several times this week.

Beware the signing statement after an agonizing passage in Congress.

Bush may not have any credibility or any political capital left (just like Wall Street), but he isn't powerless. He can impose the Paulson plan unilaterally and no one will stop him. In fact, there will be a huge collective sigh of relief on Capital Hill. Bush will take the hit, the Rethugs, and the 'presidential' candidates will distance themselves from him. The Dems will look stupid, and McCain gets 'elected'.

How's that for a prediction.

It's hard to govern when the executive branch, which has all the tools of gathering information, has no credibility anymore.

It doesn't help that the Dems in Congress can't make it clear that they don't get rolled on a regular basis.

Before this came up, I thought that Senator Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank were more trustworthy than not. Should I change my mind about them now? Because they don't act like mirror images of Eric Cantor and Roy Blunt?

Somebody has to be willing to govern. I think it is the Democrats.

The credit market looks really bad this morning. Stocks stink as well. Krugman says that the Paulson plan may already be irrelevant. We may be discussing outright nationalization by the end of the week. The situation is so bad that even the wingnuts will no longer object.

There are more than enough safe seats in the House to guarantee passage.

I don't completely agree with what rich says above, and I'd go along with the suggestion Bush doesn't have too much juice left; however, he's still being positioned in such a way that he can help Republicans, and I'm sure his relative inactivity on the bill will not prevent him from claiming complete credit for it if it passes, just because he mumbled a few prayers over it.

Similarly, if it passes, effort will be bent to spinning it so it can help McCain, exaggerating his 40 minutes or so of Sphinxlike silence into an energetic, let's-get-'er-done performance. Likewise, if it fails, it will be made to look like a Democratic failure. I agree with Obama that doing nothing is not an option, but I can't see how rewarding speculators and risk-takers for their greedy stupidity is going to help the country.

I think they are making a show of this barely passing, to soften any political falls that must be taken. I expect it will pass with a slim majority from each party in both houses.

It will, unwisely, pass.

It will be found to have been constructed in haste with ample loopholes for abuse.

The highest paid workers at these bailed out companies will be teh ones who actually run things./ Figurehead CEO's and VPs will get the 400,000 to pretend to be in charge and keep their mouths shut.

Companies too big too fail will fail again and STILL be too big to fail because nothing was done to limit the damage when they go through this batch of money as fecklessly as they did the massive cash from the housing bubble.

Why does no one in power other than Bernie Sanders seem to want incompetent people to get a "time out."

Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, speaking on the House floor on Sunday:

The $700 billion bailout for Wall Street, is driven by fear not fact. This is too much money in too a short a time going to too few people while too many questions remain unanswered:

Why aren't we having hearings on the plan we have just received?

Why aren't we questioning the underlying premise of the need for a bailout with taxpayers' money?

Why have we not considered any alternatives other than to give $700 billion to Wall Street?

Why aren't we asking Wall Street to clean up its own mess?

Why aren't we passing new laws to stop the speculation, which triggered this?

Why aren't we putting up new regulatory structures to protect investors?

How do we even value the $700 billion in toxic assets?

Why aren't we helping homeowners directly with their debt burden?

Why aren't we helping American families faced with bankruptcy?

Why aren't we reducing debt for Main Street instead of Wall Street?

Isn't it time for fundamental change in our debt based monetary system, so we can free ourselves from the manipulation of the Federal Reserve and the banks?

Is this the United States Congress or the board of directors of Goldman Sachs?

Wall Street is a place of bears and bulls. It is not smart to force taxpayers to dance with bears or to follow closely behind the bulls.

The fact is that the Republican Party of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, and their cronies and financial backers in Wall Street, having already plundered the US economy, are now looking to loot the Treasury on their way out the door. Congress is being railroaded into this deal with the same content-free fear-mongering that was used to mislead this country into the Iraq war.

NO ONE has demonstrated that this bill -- or ANY bailout -- must be passed without taking the time for extensive, in-depth hearings to examine the causes, nature and consequences of the problem, and to impartially examine all possible solutions.

We are all entitled to our opinion on this tough call. But, just once in a comments section like this one where free advice on a very difficult decision is being so agressively and cavaliery offered, I would like to read something like this:

'I was/am an elected official and I faced a tough choice like this one between doing the right thing-as best as I could determine in a crises- and doing what was perceived as being more popular. In the end I did the following....'

Memo to all arm chair generals who are so convinced they know how to win the war. Try fighting one first.

Robert, I would be thrilled if elected officials would state their true opinions in this comment section. But they don't.

And a lot of us our unhappy with what we see as weak leadership on the part of Pelosi and Reid. Should we just shut-up?

Given Paulson’s apparent AIG bailout conflict of interest, maybe this bill should fail. How man questions have Congressional Dems actually asked him below the surface?

"And a lot of us our unhappy with what we see as weak leadership on the part of Pelosi and Reid. Should we just shut-up?"

There is a lot of room between

'I'm absolutely positive all elected/public officials are buffons or scaliwags because they don't agree with me' and

"Should we just shut?"

Is the sky really falling? Congress is rushing to hold it up when nobody has made a convincing case that it's really falling down. I am just amazed that one bubble after another has burst in the last twenty years, and almost all the experts failed to see what was so obviously coming. If they don't know what's coming, then why do listen to them when they tell us where we should be going?

What's the rush? How did we go from the economy is fine, albeit slowing down, to it's about to plunge us into a deep depression, in the course of a week? And how is it that the Bush administration has played the part of Chicken Little without anyone scratching their heads and wondering why all the urgency? From this crowd, that has zero credibility?

I don't have the answers, but it strikes me that Congress has been stampeded into trampling all that's in front of it without knowing what the danger is, where it's coming from, or where it's going.

We did this once before, remember. And look how that turned out. Iraq has been a trillion dollar catastrophe.

The fact is that the Republican Party of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, and their cronies and financial backers in Wall Street, having already plundered the US economy, are now looking to loot the Treasury on their way out the door. Congress is being railroaded into this deal with the same content-free fear-mongering that was used to mislead this country into the Iraq war.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on September 29, 2008 at 10:26 AM |

I feel for you buddy being against any bailout plan. How much does it hurt to have this done by the most liberal Congressional Leadership in history as well as supported by the One? How much more does it hurt to be rooting for Conservative GOP House Members because they are the last chance of derailing this atrocity?

Congress reacted to the fear of recession (and election day) by passing a $168 billion tax rebate plan that did absolutely nothing for the economy. It was just pissing money away.

We could have prepaid Obama's ten year renewable energy plan for the same money and then some, and that would have created millions of jobs, propped up the economy long term, and paved the way for a secure energy future, and reduced climate change.

But no, we rushed into a ridiculous scheme that only worsened the economy in the long run by jacking up the federal debt.

And now what are we doing? The same damn thing. Throwing money at a problem, but this time from the supply side.

I have zero confidence in this plan. Negative, to be honest. I suspect that this financial crisis is a symptom of a much deeper problem in the economy that we're afraid to talk about or think about.

Yes, the sky is falling. Our economy will quickly fall into a severe recession without a functioning financial system. I'm sure you will see evidence of this emerging very soon.

Also, there is no way to rebuild the system without using public funds to do two things: take the toxic assets off the hands of these institutions and the recapitalize them.

In other words, Paulson is just the first step. The next step in nationalization. The sooner the better.

My biggest gripe is that the Dems did not suggest an income tax surcharge on the wealthy to pay for this.

Let's see ...

The banking industry has been a bunch of Bad Boys, and gone on a money creation spree by writing trillions of dollar worth of Bad Mortgage Loans (which all of them KNEW were Bad from the beginning). Now, those Bad Loans are collapsing under forclosure because the Made From Air Money they wrote those loans FOR, isn't there to PAY for them. Aaaahhhhhh ... so Now What? [Lightbulb Blinks] We'll get the Government to step in and monetize the debt bubble for us by paying for it with Government Debt (T-Bonds) so WE can still get Paid! [Sound of Applause From Bilderberg Gathering] Let the Chumps on Main Street support us once again!

Bullshit.

Let the Government Do What It Should Have Done when it created and passed the Federal Reserve Act in the first place: Print Dollars, not More Debt! Make The Federal Reserve BE what its name implies: A Federal Entity, not the Private Bankers Consortium To Fleece The Republic that it truly is. Fix Bad Debt with More Debt?? Astounding.

Until we take our monetary system out of the hands of Private Global Bankers, we'll continue this idiotic Debt-Based-Money Collapse that's destroying this nation (and subverting everything it touches).

I have $5 with my spouse, saying the House will turn it down Monday.

I was careful not to go beyond that; I expect it to pass later this week--after seeing what results from its rejection.

TED spread at 3.22 now.

Just got off the phone with my representatives office and thankfully, he's going to vote no. I hope many others will join him.

John Yarmuth (D- 3rd Kentucky) Louisville

Widespread poverty and malnutrition.

One ring to rule them all... The Last National Bank

Some 'no' votes can stop it.

One fallout from the financial crises that has not been noted: the total split between the Wall Street financial Republicans and the Main Street moral issue Republicans. Say goodbye to the Reagan coalition!