When does your last sentence become the core of a video?

What else is new Steve ? Alls these two evil buffoons do is lie .. serial liars and deception artists .. con jobs is what they excel at .....

I am sick to death of this gutter snipe. Everything she says is, in one way or another, utterly laughable.

Somehow, I just can't see either word -- "working" or "class" -- pertaining to Palin or her husband. But, slamming the two together is downright reprehensible.

"...and then whine about the condescension of the "Washington elite.""

Well, whining about the "Wasilla elite" would sound pretty silly since that is what she is, right? Proportion, that's what counts. Big fish, small ponds and all that.

Another important point is the it's a quarter-mil per year plus an awful lot of costs being covered. The per diem from the state when she's living at home, etc., etc. and (one assumes) the cost of her clothing picked up by the McCain campaign.

Another important point is the it's a quarter-mil per year plus an awful lot of costs being covered. The per diem from the state when she's living at home, etc., etc. and (one assumes) the cost of her clothing picked up by the McCain campaign.

Oh, poor Sarah, she's so misunderstood and unappreciated. Posh. To paraphrase Anthony Hopkins in the Edge, a movie that involves shooting a bear in Alaska: Never feel sorry for someone who owns a plane.

Also, from the same movie: Today I'm going to kill the mother-f-ing bear.

Don't be so hard on her, Steve. Think of the company she's currently keeping. After all, her running mate, John Sidney McCain III, probably classifies her as "lower middle class" because she's making WAY below $5 million a year.

With every passing day, it becomes more and more discernable that people in the McCain campaign have no real self-concept. They know not what they are! -Kevo

Oh Steve, you big fucking East Coast elitist!!

But I do care about the dishonesty.

That's why you aren't a Republican.

Dammit, people, that woman was a P.O.W.!! Oh, wait, no, that was the old guy, right? Um, well, she's, uh, she's.....she's smokin' hot and cute as a button and how dare you snarky liberals say bad things about her???

(We're the right-wing hackocracy and we approve this message. Click.)

The VP candidate's job is to be the pit bull. In addition, Palin's handlers are attempting to dictate every answer she gives. So her task is to attack, and mix in lies.

She seems to enjoy the job. She's just not doing it very well.

When did "elite" become a synonym for "well educated"? How else to explain the Obamas, with one house and one car, being categorized as "elite" while the Palins and the McCains, with all their wealth and property, being portrayed as "part of us"? WHY do so many Americans decry the well educated? I, for one, WANT a president who is smarter and better educated than I am.

The fundamentals of McCain's average American credentials are strong, is that it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFo1bte4nc

No wonder his economic policies are so gosh darn average.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjt6yrkjzAE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42EoQWPCo_c

I think that's part of the problem. Republican representation hasn't the first clue what middle class or working class is.

We saw that with George Bush and the supermarket. We see it with his son everyday and especially when he makes comments like, 'Just go to the emergency room.'

We saw it with McCain at Saddleback when he defined rich as five million dollars. Now we see it with his wilting running mate.

They simply don't know what it's like to be an average American.

Too bad so many average Americans can't/don't/won't see that.

John McCain's mansion with 13 bedrooms is up for sale today.

Now hold on just a minute there, Steve. McCain just today put his $4.25 million Phoenix mansion in Phoenix up for auction. He's going to be down to just 12 homes.

From the prospectus:

"This gracious, private residence is gated and secure on a sprawling 2.7 acre estate lot. The home features 15,000 sq. ft., 13 bedrooms, 14.5 baths and 7 car garage. Extensively enlarged and remodeled in Old World design. This home is perfect for a private residence or corporate retreat."

So McCain is committed to shedding extravagance and the appearance of elitism! Make sure the buyer doesn't pull a "Duke Cunningham" by getting a mansion on the cheap and then flipping it for $500K profit. You know these aviators . . .

I move to pause and define a lot of loaded terms--
let's start with a "Gotcha Question".

What constitutes a Gotcha Question?

In order to sell the trickle down theory, Republicans have relied on creating the illusion that the wealthy are benefactors with the sagacity to run a healthy economy. The current economic crisis, much like the accounting scandal in 2001, gets dismissed as the result of a few rogue hucksters and their greedy friends. But McCain and Palin actually do far more damage. They're rather transparent liars, not particularly intelligent, and overtly patronizing, yet dismissive of the actual needs of the non-rich.

If you're making 20-40K per year, a tax credit for health insurance is about as useful as a coupon to Gucci's. The talk of defending Georgia means "no education for you". Privatizing social security means sharing your hard earned money with some slickster on Wall Street. If this turns into class warfare, McCain and Palin are going to be the first two effigies burned, along with Bush.

I'll bring the marshmallows.

Wow, I had no idea the Palin's were that rich!!!

How did they get the money? Neither of them ever had a high paying job. (Did they?)

Did either of them have a rich parent?

Did they make the money the way most politicians do? They made 'investments' that are not available to the average person and are a thinly disguised bribe?

I am not trying to be unfair to Palin. I think the Clinton's belong in jail for there $100K cattle futures bribe.

Steve, just in case you haven't noticed this yet: Sarah Palin is a liar.

In fact, it is interesting that the only coherent, non-gibbberish, non-teleprompted sentences she has been able to produce are all lies.

Here's the thing I forgot to add above:

McCain insisted to Andrea Mitchell that this is a "Tough" campaign when she asked him several weeks ago (at the Service forum) how he felt about the "negative tone" the campaign had taken on...

So if this a tough process, than why are "Gotcha Questions" pray tell suddenly Off-Limits?!

When it exposes the truth, that your "soul mate" who may very well be our next President is in truth an incompetent, clueless 'Empress With No Clothes'?

They just lie and the MSM picks it up and repeats it and it becomes the truth for the folks who trust the MSM for the whole story.

You have got to be kidding. The median income in Wasilla, an upscale suburb of Anchorage, has got to higher than you say. I just don't believe it and I've been there many times. I suspect you substituted per capita income. Have you ever lived in Alaska ?

McCain just today put his $4.25 million Phoenix mansion in Phoenix up for auction. He's going to be down to just 12 homes.

Actually that is a former home.

It is a half-mil house in Wasilla. It looks nicer than the senior senator's home.

Let's also define "Joe Six-Pack", please..

Because Palin is starting to exploit this one..

*If you're making 20-40K per year, a tax credit for health insurance is about as useful as a coupon to Gucci's.*

That's been one of my arguments against school vouchers. For the lower income bracket, it's like a coupon for 50% off your 2nd yacht.

What constitutes a Gotcha Question?

Any question that makes McCain want to stand up, grab his package, and shout "I've gotcha answer right here!" And that means just about any question he's been asked since the Palin Effect wore off.

I wouldn't bet that McCain's going to completely lose it publicly before the election's over, but I wouldn't bet against it either. An animal is most dangerous when it's wounded and cornered.

I suspect you substituted per capita income.

You mean you suspect the Washington Times -- hardly a liberal source -- did.

Danp wrote: "If this turns into class warfare, McCain and Palin are going to be the first two effigies burned, along with Bush."

This is already class warfare and America's Ultra-Rich Ruling Class, Inc. is winning.

Her half million dollar house doesn't really impress me. I live in a basic three bedroom ranch that's worth $650K (location, location, location). And I don't even live in California. But I don't have a plane. So I guess it evens out.

The median income in Wasilla, an upscale suburb of Anchorage, has got to higher than you say.

Mike K - The 2000 Census says the median income of Wasilla was $48,226. Per capita income was $21,127. It also said the total black population was 32. They must be lonely.
http://www.localcensus.com/city/Wasilla/Alaska

I saw another page that says the median income is around $63k, though that was some real estate page and not anything official. I'm too lazy to look up more.

Mike K,

$50k goes a long way when you don't pay income taxes.

A "gotcha question" is one that doesn't use a lot of words that basically give you the answer up front. Having to come up with your answer out of whole cloth is really, really risky, don'tcha know...

Definition of "working class": a group of people a politician hopes to con into voting for him (or her) based on gut feeling rather than substantive investigation of issues. For Republican politicians, this same group, ironically, will suffer greatly from the efforts of said politician if he (or she) actually gets into office and is given the opportunity to enact his (or her) real agenda.

Alternate definitions:

A group of people who know exactly how many houses they own (generally one) without checking records or asking staff.

A group of people separated from financial ruin and poverty by one or two paychecks.

"LET'S DEFINE 'WORKING CLASS'"

Let's not. I personally hate this retoric. Most people who make a lot of money work very hard. Some people who make very little don't work very much. It's pure pandering to call the middle or lower class the "working" class.

Plus, Todd Palin's dad Jim was a utility executive, not a blue-collar worker. His father was the general manager of the Matanuska Electrical Association and winters in Indian Wells, California with his second wife.

The emphasis should also be on how little "work" Sarah Palin and John McCain actually does for their extremely generous paychecks.

The Republicans haven't had a clue about who constitutes the "working class" since Theodore Roosevelt.
Economically, anyone making less than $50,000 gross, and depending on location, would probably qualify as working class. Middle class could probably go as high as $500,000, again depending on location. After that, McCain notwithstanding, you're rich; some are a lot richer, but you're still rich.
Gov. Palin's attempt to claim the status of "working class" is, besides being false, a transparent attempt to step up in the world. I dislike using the word, but she is what is referred to in my town as "trash" (trailer optional, but not required). The way she has used her children during the last few weeks confirms that conclusion.
Only by using "elite" as a social grouping could one conclude that someone, such as Sen. Obama, for example, is "elitist". And, of course, he got to that position in a completely un-Republican way - he did it himself without, as far as I know, destroying any lives, the environment or the economy of any country. How gauche!

I think that is happening is the typical 15 dollar-an-hour college graduate who thinks "working people" make less than he does. Why don't you read "MIllionaire Next Door" sometime? Working class is not determined by dollars but by occupation. There are plenty of subsistence-level households in Alaska but they don't live in Wasilla. Her husband, who is a high school graduate, is an iron worker in the North Slope and they have a family fishing business.

You really should visit Alaska sometime and learn a bit about it.

Most people who make a lot of money work very hard. Some people who make very little don't work very much.

Ask anyone, everyone says they work hard, even those who earn their livelihoods from capital gains. The lowest income earners are the hardest working people in any economy.

I defy you to come up with a single instance where the Kennedys did anything to help those less fortunate. On the contrary, they have always favored the rich and done everything they can to promote corporate power. They are, you know, children of a Wall Street stockbroker and chairman of the SEC. They mouth endless platitudes, especially the old drunk Ted, but they have never actually done anything. Ted always votes for the corporates. Look at this voting record and you'll see. Audit his finances and you will see indisputable proof of massive corruption. People need to take off their rose-colored glasses and see this incredibly corrupt family as the failures that they are.

You really should visit Alaska sometime and learn a bit about it.

I don't know. I know Alaska is a state, but visiting it would have the look of me going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place. I should probably be in Myrtle Beach, you know, if I was going to take a vacation at this time.

I defy you to come up with a single instance where the Kennedys did anything to help those less fortunate.

1. The Special Olympics.

2. Joe Kennedy, Jr.'s Citizens Energy Corp, which provides subsidized home heating oil to low-income families, Native American tribes and homeless shelters.

3. Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s Waterkeepers Alliance, the umbrella organization connecting the various worldwide Keeper environmental groups.

From Doug: "Economically, anyone making less than $50,000 gross, and depending on location, would probably qualify as working class. Middle class could probably go as high as $500,000, again depending on location."

You can't be serious. I have never, ever heard of a definition of "Middle Class" that includes the top 1% of wage earners.

Wiki has some good research and links on this, and surely there's some disagreement, but they're estimated as 45k-90k, or 35k-52k, or 25k-100k, etc. If you're making 100k+, it's ludicrous to refer to yourself as "middle" class.

Look at household income distribution (this is HOUSEHOLD, not individual). The top 20% have household incomes of 92k and higher. The top 5% have household incomes of 167k and higher. The top 1.5% have household incomes of 250k and higher. The top 1% have household incomes of 350k and higher.

So, no, a family in the top 1% of wage earners in this country is not, ever, never, ever "middle class", no matter where they live.

If you're making 100k+, it's ludicrous to refer to yourself as "middle" class.

This depends a bit on where one lives. In, say, Boise, Idaho an annual income of $100,000 will allow you to live quite comfortably in a very nice house with a yard. In Manhattan, it will allow you to live fairly uncomfortably in a small studio apartment.

Ted always votes for the corporates. -- mike, @18:27

Ted? Ted Stevens? I agree.

Since Alaska has no local or state income taxes, the Palins' $250,000 income is also appreciably higher in comparative terms than it would be if they lived in, say, New York City, where state and city taxes take another bite out of the paycheck on top of federal.

Don't forget the handout that each Alaskan just received: they got over $2000 per person from the permanent fund + $1000 per person to help offset the rising costs of heating oil. That means the Sarah and Todd and family pulled down a $15,000 this month. I'm sure there are lots of families in the lower 48 who would love to be given that kind of money right now.

$250k - so after taxes she has $175k and after expenses saves what every year - $75k, $25k...??? Please... i'll give her a pass on the income/wealth question... she's more like everyone else in that regard... the gap b/t her and McCain is almost insurmountable... he is WEALTHY and would have zero leg to stand on.

That's the 1st and last time I will defend her.

here are plenty of subsistence-level households in Alaska but they don't live in Wasilla.

Wrong as usual, you pompous blowhard.

First of all, Wasilla has a poverty rate of roughly 10%, which is higher than plenty of other rural areas in Alaska and certainly higher than Juneau, which you're making it out to be. It's barely a bedroom community and the difficulty of life there had given rise to serious substance abuse issues. Wasilla is the meth capital of the state where abuse has reached epidemic levels.

Secondly, EVERYONE in rural Alaska participates in subsistence living to make ends meet, you ridiculous boob. In fact the manifesto of the Alaska Independence Party makes this very point; that because the cost of living is so high in this remote region that the only way to prosper is to maintain a subsistence lifestyle at some level -- unless you're born independently wealthy or are Ted Stevens abusing your office in return for bribes.

Thirdly, precisely because those costs are so staggering there is an exodus from the Alaskan villages to the cities and towns. Rural Alaskans currently pay 47% of their income in energy costs alone, and when the cost of goods is 30%-50% higher than in the contiguous states your dollar doesn't go very far.

If you're such a fountain of knowledge about Alaska then you know that to fly even a few yards of soil by bush plane to a remote village for a garden to grow one's own vegetables can cost upwards of thousands of dollars, making even simple solutions prohibitively costly.

Lastly, Palin's household income is FIVE TIMES that of the average household in Wasilla, not to mention the worth of her assets. She is a feudal lord in comparison to her fellow townspeople, and not "Joe Sixpack" as she pretends to be.

The next time you're tempted to make unsupported claims and gloss over the facts, why don't you crack open another bottle of Dr. Gantry's Wonder Tonic over whatever it is you use to ease the unfortunate effects of aging and save yourself the embarrassment.

When did "elite" become a synonym for "well educated"?

Since forever in this country.

We've valued so-called "Yankee ingenuity" over the "effete intellectualism" of Europe for a couple of centuries now. The problem is, our anti-intellectual streak has mutated into an anti intelligence streak. That will be our downfall as Mike Judge so prophetically laid out in his masterpiece, "Idiocracy."

Most Americans would rather be rich than smart, figuring that they can buy expertise to pull their ass out of a crack if they need it. Whether you're a redneck in the trailer park or a gangsta in the hood, you seek to impress others with bling bling and blam blam, not with the ability to quote Shakespeare or use calculus.

This is ironic, since we also have this myth of "self sufficiency," which absolutely requires exceptional reasoning ability -- much more than animal cunning or the overrated "street smarts."

For those of you that think "going with your gut" is the way to lead, just remember what your gut is usually filled with.

I wonder: considering that Joe Biden is relatively broke, as far as U.S. Senators go, does Governor Palin have a higher net worth than he? (And, no, even if she does that doesn't make Senator Biden "working class.")

You know, Steve, if I wasn't so busy salmon fishing and hunting moose in the Alaska wild, I'd fly to D.C. and -- and -- oh, never mind.

If you're making 100k+, it's ludicrous to refer to yourself as "middle" class.

Actually, its not; it may be upper middle class, but if you are making it from work, its still middle class. The real distinction between middle class and upper class is the need to work to live; the upper classes are those that make substantial income from capital investments, or at least who have enough wealth that they could do so if they choose, such that the loss of a job (which many of the upper classes have, even if its not their real primary source of wealth) doesn't mean substantial short-term risk to basic life necessities. I'd guess that, with that understanding, most people making under $250k and many people making more than that are still upper middle class.

"The median income for a household was $48,226, and the median income for a family was $53,792... The per capita income for Wasilla was $21,127." - Wikipedia entry on Wasilla

so by cmdicely's definition the Palin's are middle class Since the husband is an ironworker they may even get to qualify as lower middle class which is sometimes referred to as working class.

fuck rich liberals who like to pretend they are middle class

so by cmdicely's definition the Palin's are middle class

Probably in the wide upper middle class, since they don't appear to be part of the capitalist elite of the country; OTOH, many seemingly "working" celebrities, including many politicians, are less labor dependent than they might superficially appear, as they are able to derive a quite good income without lifting a finger just from their celebrity status, which is really a form of capital.

To me, the middle class is defined by not being on the survival margin but for unforseen (but always looming) catastrophe, like a major health crisis that exceed insurance, etc., so long as one remains employeed; the distinction between the upper middle class and the middle class is the ability to survive for a noticeable time without
employment by depleting savings and using lines of credit, and the distinction between the upper class and the middle class is the availability of capital which makes a "job", while perhaps nice to have, not essential at all. On the other end, the lower classes are defined by either not having employment or being on the edge even with it.

Since the husband is an ironworker they may even get to qualify as lower middle class

Not at all.

which is sometimes referred to as working class.

I prefer to avoid the term "working class" altogether; it usually lumps together the working poor and the lower middle class, I think it is mostly a product of a false conception (though one common on both the left and the right) derived largely from Marxism that the principal division in class in society is between the less well off workers, including what I would call the lower and lower middle classes, as natural class allies of each other in opposition to capital and the more well-off workers who are seen, wrongly, as their natural class allies.

Ironically, given its origin in Marxism, this false perception serves the interests of capital by dividing the labor-dependent classes and serving as an obstacle to them understanding and pursuing their shared interests. Particularly, it serves to mislead the middle and upper middle class into serving the interests of capital in the mistaken impression that they are serving their own interests, when in fact they are often acting directly opposed to it.

The Palins are middle income but decidedly lower class in their pursuits and values.

It is possible to be a multi-millionaire and still be ghetto/trailer trash. Professional sports and pop music are full of people like this.

Ironically, given its origin in Marxism, this false perception serves the interests of capital by dividing the labor-dependent classes and serving as an obstacle to them understanding and pursuing their shared interests. Particularly, it serves to mislead the middle and upper middle class into serving the interests of capital in the mistaken impression that they are serving their own interests, when in fact they are often acting directly opposed to it.

Excellent observation. That particular illusion that capital interests are working for them is arguably the primary obstacle to progressive economic policies making inroads with the middle class. Your last paragraph should be plastered on street corners and overpasses and coffee cozies everywhere until we have a few hundred million personal epiphanies.

Given human nature, people tend not to divest themselves of this happy fantasy until they experience a personal financial crisis and find themselves desperate for outside aid. Even then deeply held cultural beliefs can make it difficult for them to release.

I wonder if 8% unemployment, a stalled economy, and spiralling food and energy costs will finally be enough to turn these classes into New Dealers.