I wonder when Sarah Palin will find out...

I am sure I watch too much TV and see conspiracies everywhere -- but I get the feeling there is a deep schism in the McCain camp between his backers and those of Palin.

McCain's campaign has really only reached epic depths of ugly since Palin joined up.

Actually, my one fear for the next four weeks is if McCain completely reverses and goes non-negative; he might well become more appealing again.

Tough break for Palin. If McCain is retreating from the guilt by association smear tactic, she'll only have her Mavericky line to push since she has no command of the actual issues.

So did they suspend it like the campaign?
What ever they choose they to do they lost. It's over.

Sarah Palin will continue to mention them at rallies and in friendly interview spaces because she's mainly a tool for energizing the base at this point. I seriously doubt the McCain campaign thinks Palin will help them much with undecided voters at this stage. So Palin will keep jabbering about this stuff, which is upsetting but won't do much to change the dynamics of the race.

At what point does Palin grab McCain by the collars and scream "You are nothing without me old man, NOTHING!"

I wonder if the Obama campaign's Keating documentary worked?

It seems to me that that may have been a very clever move. Obama didn't force media attention onto it by talking about it himself, so doesn't take much heat for attacking, and also doesn't fall into the denial = news trap, but it quickly percolated around the blogosphere in a way that makes it hard for the msm to talk about Ayers, or whoever without "balancing" by talking about Keating. Sort of an automated counter attack.

Look for right-wingnuts to increasingly suggest that the GOP ticket is upside-down, and that Palin should be the one debating Obama.

I think their moose is cooked.

Actually ... Nancy (whose last name I cannot spell) -- a McCain adviser -- just brought up the Ayers thing on MSNBC.

Why don't they just come out and admit they don't know what the fuck they are doing? The pinball machine of political campaigns. If it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.

Worthless personal attacks only really work when there are no other major national traumas, and an economy in free-fall is about as bad as it gets. Any more harping on Ayers and Wright would only make the whole McCain crew look even more ridiculous, and even Steve Schmidt is finally realizing that his bag of stupid fratboy tricks just won't work anymore.

Steve,

You don't think it's possible that McCain is dropping the Ayers attack out because his conscience was bothering him?

...the smear campaign that's been in the works for days may be scrapped altogether.

If so, here's why:   Best. Olbermann. Ever.

No one has done a better Palin slap down. No one has framed the AIP party, and the witchcraft pastor's history, in terms even an idiot could understand.

If Barbie wants to go there...
Quid pro quo will destroy her.

Yet another stupid decision, hastily made and withdrawn, by the erratic John McCain.

I have to think that the glass-house syndrome is kicking in.
If they mention Ayers, Obama can mention Liddy. If they mention Wright, Obama can counter with Thomas Muthee (not even to mention Hagee)

They realized they were playing with fire and re-called the truce that had been in place.

I think Jeff is on the right track. The Keating move was a warning. McCain cant afford to get into a smearing contest, because he has far more to hide than Obama. So he takes a cheap shot that gets out onto the internet, then backs off before attracting too much direct return fire from the Obama camp. The Ayers thing wasn't working anyway, but at least it gave pit-bull Palin something to do. I guess she'll just have to bore us from here on out with reams of policy details...

I suspect that the reason McCain didn't mention Ayers in the debate itself is because he knew Obama could easily point out in a sentence or two what a distortion McCain was offering. It would backfire way too easily.

Color me skeptical that this apparent decision to back off the Ayers horseshit is just a result of the economic news.

In the past several days we've seen the release of a short video on McCain's role as a member of the Keating Five, and Paul Begala's mention on network TV of McCain's past participation in fringe right-wing organizations. On top of that, we have the still-developing information about Palin's involvement with the Alaska Independent Party and its charming founder Joe Vogler, who allegedly was going to use Iran's help to gain access to the podium at the UN to denounce the U.S. government. And this is not to mention Sean Hannity's embrace of an openly anti-Semitic assclown to push the argument that Obama is a dangerous anti-American radical. All of this potentially very damaging information was being actively disseminated by either the Obama campaign or its supporters, in large measure as a pre-emptive attack on McCain in anticipation of the already-announced sleaze campaign targeted at Obama.

I have the strong suspicion that McCain's inner circle looked at the cost/benefits of trying to portray Obama as a disloyal, unpatriotic American and concluded that the impending response from the other side was going to be far more damaging than anything they could make stick themselves.

That does not mean there should be any backing off on Obama's part. I think it would be devastating to simply issue a challenge to McCain to explain why he chose a VP candidate who delivered a cheery, salutory greeting to a political party whose professed goal is secession from the United States, and whose founder directly and openly expressed in recorded interviews a deep and unabiding hatred for the same United States that John McCain, along with millions of other American veterans, sacrificed so much for.

On the CNN dial meter last night, the lines plunged every time McCain attacked Obama personally. After Obama said no one wants to watch the candidates pointing fingers, the attacks just looked cheap. I think they realized that these smears were hurting them rather than Obama.

My (slightly-paranoid-but-not-unjustified) concern is that with the McCain campaign's suggestion that they are backing off the personal smears, they are just signaling the 527s that it is time for them to take over. They are the only ones who can peddle this stuff successfully, anyway. And it makes sense that McCain would want to affect his 'good cop' persona before calling in the cavalry.

You don't think it's possible that McCain is dropping the Ayers attack out because his conscience was bothering him?

HAAAHAAAHAAAAAAA! Stop, your killing me! That was so funny, and I really like the way you deadpanned it like you were serious and shit.

Nope, a new day has arrived. The usual cast of professional loser Dem consultants has been kicked to the curb. We got a new crew who know the Chicago way. The Ayers bullshit was a clumsy attempt to try to stick a butter knife in Obama. The Keating mini-documentary was a 20mm Vulcan Gun shot across the bow.

As in" do you really wanna go there old man?"

The Shark approves!

Well, there was nothing in the Ayers stuff besides the 2 sitting on the same board, and there's plenty in the McCain/Keating & Palin/AIP stuff. Like fraud and hatred for America. Particularly with Palin giving her America-haters a big "shout out" just this year. That's pretty sweet. And during a financial bailout plan that dwarfs the bailouts of the 80s, I don't think McCain really wants his connection with the issue to keep being brought up. And up and up and up. McCain/Palin tried the smear, and it was weak tea. Obama counter-attacked hard, and it was stronger stuff.

I don't think McCain's bozos thought through their plan all that well.

McCain's campaign has really only reached epic depths of ugly since Palin joined up.

McCain's campaign has only gotten any media attention since Palin showed up, too. Maybe the nasty has nothing to do with the "Palin camp", and something to do with only making the attacks when they thought they'd get heard.

Aside from Palin's own associations, there's also the fact that she's, y'know, under a giant ethics cloud right now and being investigated by her state legislature. But she doesn't seem to have much self awareness, if she did she never would have agreed to be McCain's running mate.
Nothing will please me more than for her to be sent back to Alaska on November 5 to face the consequences.

All the post-debate polls so far have Obama or Biden winning by 3-2. In my view, who you think won is sually based on who you favor. Is it possible Obama wins the election by 3-2, something like 58-39? That would be huge.

The usual cast of professional loser Dem consultants has been kicked to the curb.

Thank God.

Don't fall for it- they're still going to use the attacks, just under the radar and through third parties. The stupid part of the campaign was to announce that they were going to use this, because then they get blames. We're going to see some independent group push this, and McCain can say how unfortunate it is that people outside his control are bringing this up, but his honorable campaign has disavowed it, what can you do.

I rarely subject myself to bathing in the sewer that is the comment sections of RedState and Free Republic, but checked them out today briefly to see general reaction to yesterday's debate.

Overall the wingosphere is severely deflated on the upcoming election, John McCain, the prospect of President Obama, and many are resorting to sincere prayer as their only hope.

Yessss! Kinda like the feeling of the last month of the Dole campaign, only better because those of us on the winning side can all watch it happening online.

Where I won't equate things with the Dole campaign is that although equally cranky and unlikeable, Bob Dole was(is) infinitely more honest and ethical than "that other guy" on the stage last night.

DonBoy,

I don't think McAingry can go non-negative at this point. His blood is boiling, and simply backing off won't change his standing in the polls. He needs a game changer, something big. And finally deciding to play nice won't do it.

The only reason McCain is backing off these false assertions of association because he doesn't want Obama to focus in on McCain's involvement in the Keating scandal, which is beyond association, and unlike McCain's accusations, it happens to be true and part of the public record.

But we all know he's not backing off. He's just saying he's backing off. I don't think John McCain actually knows what the word suspension means.

Can we all take a moment and remember just how asinine this smear by association really is?

Ayers was a member of the freaking Weathermen!?!? Remember them? The Keystone Kops of the 60s Radical Fringe? The ones who, for all their high falutin' rhetoric about waging war on the United States were only successful in accidentally blowing up 3 of their own? The ones who indeed set off bombs in buildings, but gave ample notice beforehand so people could evacuate the premises. THESE are the evil terrorists that Obama's been pallin' around with?

They were a joke.

How many people do you think know the *actual* story of the Weathermen? I notice nobody on either side will actually set the record straight...shouldn't Carville be the man to do this?

p.s. To be fair, they DID blow up the Haymarket Riot Memorial and broke Leary outta jail...so some respect there ;)

"If asked about it."

We know from the VP nominee debate that any question is an invitation to talk about whatever is floating through one's head. So, Camp McPOW is full of it, Camp Obama will strike back with ads about McPalintine's associates and they'll whine because THAT ONE is being sooo mean and they haven't done nothin'.

I liked this quote:

"If asked about it, of course [he'll talk about Ayers]," she said.

In other words, hey MSM, can you bring this up as often as possible, so we don't have to be the sleaze balls?

I think McCain was too much of a coward to do it in person. Straight up.

Lying about tax policy is one thing—the only blowback there is a he said-he said. I think if he opened up about Ayers in the debate, Obama would have leveled him and he knows it.

That bullshit is best left as a whisper campaign and illusory references from his attack pitbull.

Maybe the McCain campaign is starting to realize that it's not 2000, and these ridiculous shenanigans aren't going to work in light of the serious issues that are on people's minds.

What kind of nitwits are Mccain's people to bring up Ayers? Ayers, a former radical, but who's been part and parcel of Chicago's ESTABLISHMENT for the better part of two decades...who's worked with plenty of Illinois Republicans...who receivd millions of dollars from a foundation started by a REPUBLICAN. From Chicago, a place where MILLIONS of people, Dems and Repubs, could tell for themselves exactly how "radical" he is.

Yeah, that's a real winner....

Brian, Haddock and others speak for me. First, even if this is real, will Palin follow? (If she doesn't, it will show just how politically clueless she is, as well as otherwise clueless. No Republican with a wallet of sufficient size who's not wedded to her or the the Religious Right at the hip will fund any runs at higher office she plans.)

Second, per Lizzie, if Nancy Pfotenhauer is still floating the Ayers line for talking heads, it's not done with yet.

Steve, this IS like the "campaign suspension"; I can't believe you'd fall for it.

As well, at this point Obama could just look into the camera and say "I was standing right beside John McCain on the stage in Tennessee. If he had anything he wanted to ask me about, why didn't he do it then?"

As for Sarah, I expect her to keep it up even if the McCain camp tells her to stop. I figure she's had a taste of the Big Leagues, and spending the next couple of years raking in the big bucks of wingnut welfare is looking a lot more attractive than sitting up in Alaska with singed wings and a dented halo.

Somebody at Regenery will ghost-write a screed for her and she'll be out doing the Limbaugh/Hannity circuit blaming it all on that non-conservative McCain for failing to unleash the Pitbull.

I reckon Todd's going to be spending a lot of time baby-sitting Trig in the near future.

Next desperate tactic: Palin shows cleavage.

Isn't it wonderful that for once the slander isn't working? I savor this daily. Barack has walked the line which makes me even more proud to cast my vote for him.

He's one of us which was never more apparent than when last night, the huffy little man and his nurse bolted and Barack and 'Chelle stayed behind, taking photos, smiling big, hanging with the regular folk.

OMG Joe Biden's speaking in FL: "Last week, I had a debate with... I mean, I guess it was a debate?" Smokin' Joe!

Meanwhile, Lindsay Graham - who, as most here probably know is from South Carolina and is a major supporter of McCain - said this about the debate:

http://www.kvewtv.com/news/?sect_rank=1§ion_id=18&story_id=9627

Shortly after the event ended, Senator Lindsay Graham scored it a clear victory for John McCain, saying he "whipped him pretty hard."

.

You don't suppose that as soon as the Dems, and many internet sites, began to remind McCain of his own slimy cowardly background that even a diehard Nazi like Rove decided smearing Obama was a looser’s game -
since McCain’s and Palin’s pasts and presents read like bad movie scripts about dysfunctional, lying, crooks who vainly seek power wealth and social position, while causing untold suffering to innocent bystanders and friends alike, and selling their souls along the way.

I have seen, in the last two days, headline articles in many on line news and comment spots about:
Keating Five
McCain's suppression of records vis a vis

Hanoi
McCain's suppression of records vis a vis

McCain's reaction to the fire on the Forrestal in the immediate aftermath and in the hours and days following
He ran away and left others to fight the fire, risk their lives, and die.
McCain's suppression of records vis a vis

McCain's seat on the board of a Nazi anti-Semitic organization
McCain's suppression of records vis a vis

McCain’s support, for most of his political career, of monetary deregulation, that has twice in the Bush administration, alone, led to the catastrophic lose of retirement savings and investments, homes lost and jobs lost - and have irrevocably harmed millions, especially those in or near retirement, of Americans and enriched the top 1% of America’s population with billion of unearned wealth.

Palin's Troopergate, Bridgegate, problems
McCain's attempts to suppress the investigations vis a vis

Palin’s use of public office to harass a private citizen

Palin’s need to fire those who disagree with her

Palin’s cronyism

Palin’s association with Stevens

Palin’s, a conservative Bible Thumper, support of gambling and alcoholic sales and consumption

Palin's need for and acceptance of a witchcraft exorcism

The release this week of information that Palin is a millionaire.
So much for her Joe 12 pack image.

Palin's and the first Dud's association with an organization that hates the United States, despises its flag and wants succession
(Olbermann's comment about her association with an organization that literally wants to rip a star off the American flag was brilliant.)

I'd like to hope that McCain really was surprised and actually disturbed by the cries of "Kill him! Treason! Terrorist!" that has base started throwing up at him. He looked surprised in the video I saw. It reminded him of something important that he'd forgotten since 2000: a large segment of the Republican base is violently insane.

I know McCain is getting forgetful, but I would think that he remembers Walter Annenburg, the darling of all republican presidents, Barak Obama along with republicans were working on an Annenburg project with William Ayers, I would just hope that someone would put these republican mouthpieces straight.

Just read that McCain and Palin are on the attack again today with more slime and sleaze.

You know, what? Along with being an ill-tempered silver spoon daddy's boy, McCain is also a COWARD.

Had he any real cajones, he would have attacked Obama last night, man to man, face to face. He didn't.

COWARD.

My guess on them backing off Ayers is the violent response from the crowds like "kill him", "sit down boy", etc. The power of Palin's words and McCain's could be used much more constructively as I am sure they might have been cautioned about by the Secret Service or FBI. Time will tell.

One result of the mud-throwing was to get Biden really mad. It's probably too long for you to imbed, but the speech I just heard him give in Tampa was one of the best I've heard from him or anyone.

As for Palin, the Branchflower Report is due Friday, and he was able to submit questions to everyone he wanted to, finally. And that will finish Palin. (There is some question whether it will be released publicly, but if it isn't, somebody will 'pull an Ellsberg' I'm sure.)

There's also the possibility (bear with me now. This might sound stupid) that McCain has decided to preserve his last ounce of dignity and, in effect, concede the race.

I hope this is the right answer, but I understand that there might be skepticism.

I don't think they'll stop using this crap, they'll only save it for the future "Footnote in the Dustbin of History" (I call trademark on that one ;) to trot out at her Hate Rallies.

Honestly, have you seen the footage of the crowds at these things? It's terrifying, like something you'd see in a Bill Kurtz exposé on White Supremacists on A&E some Saturday afternoon. These people are being whipped into a primal frenzy of hate and loathing (the fear resides in the rest of us).

But what that really means is that they KNOW that it isn't selling well in to the middle - if it was McCain woulda nutted up and said it to Obama's face. He didn't, so now they're using it to rile the base, and ONLY the base.

Yep, 28 days until the election and they're STILL working on the base.

Like Vince Carter said at the 2000 Slam Dunk Competition "It's Over!"

I beg to differ.

I think McCain-Palin are holding off on this for use in the last weeks of the campaign in a huge blitz of such attacks including the supposed Michelle whitey tape that an individual named Mike Puckett has been touting on Rand Simberg's blog: www.transterrestrial.com.

That's what I really think the strategy is. The GOP is so full of stink that this possiby cannot be in the interests of elevating the discussion.

I am worried about Obama's safety. You know that if you talk with Government security types, many of them are Rush Limbaugh listeners and diehard McCain supporters. Does that make me worry about infiltration in the Secret Service? Absolutely, you better believe it. One can only hope there is no plot from within, fired up by the rabble rousing lying b***h from Alaska - Sarah Palin.

Obama has successfully signalled he'll fight back. Given McCain's and Palin's own, far more damning ties to criminals, foreign witch doctors and anti-American secessionists, the only rational reason they would bring up Ayers and Wright again is if they felt Obama was too weak to counter punch.

What Paul Dirks on October 8, 2008 at 10:38 AM said re G. Gordon Liddy (Assassin extraordinary) & the godnuts...

Plus Ollie North (terrorist for jesus) & Charles Keating (prince of thieves)

"You don't think it's possible that McCain is dropping the Ayers attack out because his conscience was bothering him?"

anyone else remember how doonsbuy pilloried bush41 for "putting his manhood in a blind trust" to become president? i think by this stage of the game, whatever conscience mcsame ever had has been locked in a closet... if not taken out and shot. the man will do anything to become president because it's his turn, dammit! and anyone or anything (like a conscience) that gets in the way just better watch out.

btw, i'm a teacher and i've probably spent more time with bill ayers that obama ever has (i've taken several classes with him). i've even been in his living room. BIG FUCKING DEAL.

I just read the following on Huffington Post:
McCann just put out a list of 100 current/former ambassadors who support him. One is Mrs. Annenberg, the widow of Amabassador Annenberg whose Annenberg Foundation gave Ayers an educational grant!!! (By the way, Annenberg and Reagan were very close friends.) Obama served on the board that also included Republicans.
Thought you might like to know...
McCann/Palin just stepped into a very large cow pie that may be directed back at them.

penpiper...
that would mean that mcsame pals around with someone who pals around with someone who pals around with domestic terrorists?
have i got enough "someones?"

The real "whitey" video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZi6U811hxE

btw, i'm a teacher and i've probably spent more time with bill ayers that obama ever has (i've taken several classes with him). i've even been in his living room. BIG FUCKING DEAL.
--mellowjohn

We know it's not a big fucking deal to you, or most liberals for that matter. Terrorism and radicalism doesn't bother you in the least. But you're not about to become the next President. If it's no big deal to Obama, he should be willing to talk about it, but so far he's only lied and covered it up. Those things are no big fucking deal to you either, apparently.

Dennis,

Do you know the first thing about the Weathermen?? I suspect you don't. Read my post above to get a very quick primer.

The short version? They were a joke. Even by the standards of the Radical Fringe, they were a joke.

Dennis, if this is such a big deal, then why wasn't McCain man enough to confront Obama to his face about it? It doesn't say much about McCain's fortitude if he's afraid of a young skinny black dude does it?

Explain to me, nice and slowly, why this actually matters, and if it does, why McCain is too much of a wimp to say it to Obama's face.

thanks

Terrorism and radicalism doesn't bother you in the least. But you're not about to become the next President. If it's no big deal to Obama, he should be willing to talk about it, but so far he's only lied and covered it up.

Say, Dennis, what's your opinion of McCain's support of terrorism and illegal activities in South America? Please note that McCain directly supported these activities -- he didn't find out that someone he knew had been a radical 30 years before.

Don't you think it's a wee bit more of a problem that McCain helped the Reagan Administration break the law and subvert the Constitution than that Obama met someone 30 years after he committed his crimes?

Remind me again, was any member of Murtaugh's family actually hurt?

Nope.

I actually think that it's 1) A specatularly stupid line of reasoning (John McCain thinks you're an idiot - and you're proving him right) and 2) Bill Ayers is to terrorist as Homer Simpson is to Safety Inspector

The Weathermen were a joke. Spoiled rich kids playing at international revolutionaries. I'm sorry that John M Murtaugh is still pissed off that he lost his tinker toys, but it's a non-issue from word one.

Now go back to watching Hannity and getting yourself all hot and bothered over any and all percieved slights against you.

["Dennis" is now banned. I have no patience for Ayers-trolls. -Mod]

Over at Redstate.com, they're convinced that all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together to reveal that Obama and Ayers and ACORN conspired to destroy the US economy and ANY MOMENT NOW voters will see it!

This post is a great example of dog whistle racism in today's politics. And there are so many more!

We're tracking political race baiting at www.stopdogwhistleracism.com. We find the good, bad and ugly from the right, left and center about race in the race. Visit us today for a non-partisan take on the race card, and the race card card, in today's politics.

Hope to see you at StopDog!

Thanks Mr/s Moderator :)

Sorry for getting snared by the bait :(

I have a question - is there any reason why I can't post from my home computer? It's gives me a message along the lines of "you are not allowed to post". It's on vista, is that the problem? If you have the time, could you send me an explanation at neil_t10@hotmail.com?

Thanks!

I think that the key is that Smith and the Rovians made their big mistake by expecting the media to be playing by the normal rules.

I think they expected that by tossing the bait out they would have the media asking about Ayers, so that McCain could deliver all the smears without "bringing it up" himself - hey, I was just answering the media's questions. Unfortunately for them, that strategy doesn't work when there's a real crisis happening to dominate the cycle.

I would like to be able to say that it also works less well when the media is wise to it, but that's not really true. There are always enough stooges from right-wing media around to prime the pump by asking the question during a session covered by multiple media sources, including MSM pool resources, and from there it normally would have spread.

Call it a silver lining to the meltdown - at least it's keeping the campaign from completely devolving.

Check this out, McCain is endorsed by Mr. Annenberg of the Annenberg Foundation, the same Foundation whose board Ayers and Obama sat on for six big meetings, so what's more relevant, that they sat at six meetings together, or than the chair of the association that put Ayers on its board endorses McCain?
It's on the Huffington Post.

"Look for right-wingnuts to increasingly suggest that the GOP ticket is upside-down, and that Palin should be the one debating Obama".

OH, YEAH! Bring it on! Obama will skin, de-bone, then dice Palin into little bitty pieces until she cries... Wait, bad idea, then she will get sympathy votes... Let's NOT go there!

I dunno MOD, Dumping(banning) trolls like Dennis gives the rest of us fewer of them to laugh at...

On a more serious note, one of the reasons, as mentioned above, that mah homestate boy may have had second thoughts is the plethora of "deep background" stuff that could come out about HIM.

Think the swiftboaters were a problem for Kerry?
How about fellow POWs who're already posting about "the songbird". Not going to go into detail here, but a google with mccain +songbird is fairly interesting.

Then there's Cindy (Hensley) McCain's family background and John's political backers when HE got started. That one I will post a link to as it's not easily found otherwise. It's got all the makings of a 40's film noir: car-bombings, murder, the mob (well, ok, the Phoenix mob), and more. McCain wants to talk about guilt by association? I don't think he wants to go THERE.

Link: http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-02-17/news/haunted-by-spirits/6

I've lived in Arizona for over fifty years, long before McSleaze ever arrived with his carpetbag, and I hope to be here long after he's out of office. I've been watching him from the gitgo here, and never, not once, have I seen him do ANYTHING that wasn't primarily for John McCain, or his backers. I was living in Phoenix when these events were documented in the Phoenix New Times, the Arizona Republic, Mesa Tribune, and others. The IRE reports were a daily read. The IRE (Investigative Reporters and Editors) were working on this, a cross section of newsmen from all political viewpoints.
John McCain, it is tue, was not in that picture when this was occurring, he merely married into the money...oops, I meant to say family, and has done everything in his power to aid the Hensley business, and the liquor industry in general since...but if John and Sara want to bring up forty year old fiction, why not forty year old facts.

Seriously though, McGeezer backing off because of an attack of civility?
Bwaahaahaahaa, not bloody likely.

(signed)
Rankle Hiway Hussein Palin
(I'm a proud mudflatter)
http://www.themudflats.net/

Why pull back? Because any damage it could make is done and pulling back allows the GOP feign integrity when they tell reporters the association "is between Barack Obama and the voters."

Thanks a bunch.

So glad you will leave us to make up our own minds.