Dude,

Mark Steyn (as much as it pains me to admit) is from Toronto...he KNOWS how to pronounce Pakistan!

In related news: I cannot begin to explain how tickled I was when I found out that Biden did not in fact flub, but that they actually are called Bosniaks.

I remember when being educated used to be considered an aspiration of sort for folks who were conservative and I'm not that old. Now, you're considered a good conservative if you had your head up your ass at all levels of schooling.

Note from this semi edumakated eelightist to Sayrah Paylen: It's ee-Raq not Eye-Raq.

And we should all learn to pronounce it "nukular" as Sarah taught us last week. AAARRRGGHHHH!! Like nails on a blackboard. It's like the apocryphal origin of Castilian Spanish, where the king had a lisp so all the courtiers had to speak with a lisp too.

Don't talk like a fag. Slurpee?

While I can't stand right-wing dumbassery like "Eye-rack" and "nuke-u-lar" I have to confess that I do find Obama's constant use of "Pagh-iss-tahn" somewhat irritating. "Pack-iss-tan" is how it's pronounced here in the States. Really, it is. Not just in the Red states, but everywhere, even in the true-blue liberal northeast. I'd never heard anyone pronounce it "Pagh-iss-tahn" until Obama did it in the first debate.

This is amusing. A personal ancedote that kind of goes along these lines. I was arguing with a troll the other day on Salon - you may know of him as he goes by the name of Elephantman - and he cut off the arguement because, he said, I had spelled the word "judgement" incorrectly and called me an idiot for good measure. Now, he said the correct spelling was "judgment." I played along and posted the entry for the word from the Merriam-Webster site showing that both spellings were acceptable. He still wouldn't answer my questions or points. It was all very entertaining.

I guess when you're backed into a corner . . . . you'll take any escape route.

This is a nonsensical issue.

I think they are raising this just to rile up the liberal bloggers.

Come to think of it the object of everything that they do is to rile up the liberal bloggers. Choice of Palin must have given them a Conorgasm.

Since the Packistanees have newkuler weapons of mass distruction. I think it's a good foreign policy intiative to pronounce the name correctly.

I know that this is all too common, but could someone please explain to John McCain that there is no "r" in Washington. The man was at Annapolis and should be able handle it.

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh, boyyyyyeeeeee!

They got Obama on the ropes now! POCK-ee-stahn. Ooooo! How elitist! He ain't never gon' win now!

All I can say is that I'm glad McCain is left handed too.

in flyoverville, it's pronounceated "Pyack-e-stan"

In the heartland all vowels are schwa.

Yuh meen it ain't veetnam?

Damn pinkos.

Don't forget Sarah Palin's channeling George Bush!

"Nukuler!"

If Obama were a real American, he'd pronounce his own name "Barry O'Bama" (to rhyme with "Alabama").

Then shouldn't they pronounce Hussein wrong when they use Obama's middle name? You know, like "Huh-seen" or something like that? Or does pronunciation suddenly count when you're trying to link someone to a notorious dictator?

Isaac Asimov warned in the late 1970s of the trend towards anti-intellectualism, and, as with his predictions about personal computers, he was precient. This is a sort of reverse status symbol in which ignorance trumps knowledge.

This is obviously something Republicans have trumpeted during the Reagan era, as 1980-2008 will likely be referred to in history. When your dominant party of the era chooses leaders like Reagan, Quayle, GWB, and the poor intellect of the elder Cheney, the problem is evident. That their best intellect, GHWB, was largely considered a throwback to the Ford/Rockefeller style of Republican just makes the point even clearer. Republicans of this era preferred stupid leadership, and the results are obvious.

It's fitting that their reign of error will end with a Presidential ticket consisting of McCain -- another GWB in terms of intellect -- and Palin.

Fortunately we see the narratives of the last 28 years already changing. In last night's debate the two candidates were trying to top each other in terms of who would expand government regulation of the finance industry, and who would be more of a diplomat and less of a war monger -- something that we could not have imagined even 2 years ago. As these narratives continue to change it would behoove the Democrats to focus on re-establishing the importance of ability, knowledge, intelligence, and teamwork in choosing our leaders.

My personal pet peeve is when people pronounce the word "err" as if it rhymes with what we breathe, rather than an ancient city in what is now southern Iraq. Maybe Obama could work that word into an answer in the last debate and watch the right wing pundits' heads explode with delight over his mistake. . .

Re Lori at 5.02pm:
"and he cut off the arguement because, he said, I had spelled the word "judgement" incorrectly"

Ummm... where I come from, 'arguement' is spelled 'argument.' Then again, where I come from, 'spelled' is spelt, well, 'spelt'.

Just sayin'...

It never ceases to amaze me. I think the Republican motto these days can be summed up as "Pride In Ignorance". But then that's what you get when your entire party falls at the feet of a C-student president for 8 years.

I live in a small, rural American town. Most people say Eye-talian and Eye-rac. We also prominently feature "this here" and lots of double negatives. Most high school teachers in this community blithely make the same grammatical and pronunciation errors. PALIN/mccain bumper stickers are sold in the local gas stations. To speak correctly would be labeled "elitist." A friend says the town's motto should be: "Ignorant and proud of it."

"Pack-iss-tan" is how it's pronounced here in the States. Really, it is. Not just in the Red states, but everywhere, even in the true-blue liberal northeast. I'd never heard anyone pronounce it "Pagh-iss-tahn" until Obama did it in the first debate.

That's kind of silly. Do you still insist on calling the capital of China "Peking" instead of "Beijing" because that's the way you grew up hearing it?

I don't think there's going to be some kind of quiz where Obama will show up on your doorstep and demand that you pronounce "Pakistan" correctly.

If it makes you feel better, given the ethnic makeup of Chicago, Obama probably has a fair number of constituents from Pakistan, so he may have had more practice in pronouncing it the way Pakistanis prefer to have it pronounced.

former dan,
i thought it was more like 'uh-rock," but god forbid we should try to pronounce the names of the countries all them damn furriners come from like they do. we're americans, dammit.
and if ya want to fit in america, act american (and be a republican)!!! just ask piyush jindal.

Stein, Lopez? them's sounds a little furren to me. What part of flyover country is them from?

I like the new name going around for it.

"Aggressive ignorance."

Don't know who coined that term, but its a good one.

Wanna comback for anyone who brings this up in conversation?

"Look, I don't know if you are keeping up with current events but the era of I'm stupid and proud of it is over"

Shuts em down everytime

"I guess when you're backed into a corner . . . . you'll take any escape route."

You misused the ellipsis: it's space dot space dot space dot space, unless you're ending a sentence.

"I guess when you're backed into a corner . . . you'll take any escape route."

FIFY

I am from India, been living in the US for about 10 years now. To those who, like say Toast say that the pronunciation in the US should rule, I can tell one thing.

Back there, they do hear these things, and while they don't get offended when their country's name is mispronounced, they do feel positive about an American who does it right. And that sort of positive feeling is good thing in international relations, don't you think?

The right's anti-intellectualism seems to be getting worse, doesn't it?

Like Obama said, they're proud of their ignorance.

Hey GHANDI what do you mean?

These asshats can't (actually won't) identify the Democratic Party correctly, so why pay attention to them?
When you hear "the Democrat party" just say "Wow, what an ignorant sack of excrement you are" and walk away.

I thought Biden flubbed too when he said Bosniaks (actually, the correct spelling is Bosniac but heck, it's still pronounced correctly). Let the Republicans be the party of ignorance....

Nu-cu-ler, Marge.

It's pronounced nu-cu-lar.

I heard somewhere that "Iraq" starts with a funky consonant anyway.

And remember, it's "pro-nounce-iation."

Stein, Lopez? them's sounds a little furren to me. What part of flyover country is them from?
Posted by: Jerry

Yup. Looks like we got us a Canuk Jew-boy and a wetback tryin' to edjumacate us about 'merican pronowceeashun.

Amazing stuff from that Mark Steyn. By the way, I'm pronouncing that in the non elitist vernacular: "stain". Mark Stain.

I thought Pol Pot figured out what to do with all these "intellectuals" a long time ago. How long before they start taking cues from his playbook?
(ahem)

Even racist British skinheads go out to bash up "Pakis" with a short a.

"Pack-iss-tan" is how it's pronounced here in the States. Really, it is. Not just in the Red states, but everywhere, even in the true-blue liberal northeast. I'd never heard anyone pronounce it "Pagh-iss-tahn" until Obama did it in the first debate.

I don't know where in the true blue liberal northeast you went to school, but my teachers and professors forced correct pronounciation and good diction. They understood that if a person has bad diction, they sound like a moron - just like those Republican halfwits we keep seeing on Fox.

I like Jon Stewart's take on 'Elite': He wants to apply the Republican's logic to our Navy Seals. Let's hire idiots to enlist in our commando forces.

I'd take it a step further. Let's only hire idiots to run NASA, to run the Secret Service, to teach at our top Universities. I mean, if we're going to throw the best of our Society's people under the bus, let's get rid of all of them, right? Isn't that where this logic leads?

Wait...getting rid of the Elite....where have I heard that before...that's right Stalin and his purge of the elite in the '20s and '30s.

Red States are becoming more and more "Red" ironically.

Add this to the list:

Why does evengelical Sarah Palin keep using "Joe Six Pack" as a way to refer to the average guy in America? Aren't evangelicals against liquor? They don't drink. She uses a term she knows nothing about. Not the first time.

Drinking a six pack is a lot of booze, not a social drinker. Is she appealing to the low brow, abusive, wife-beater type? After hearing what her crowds yells out, the oh-so-subtle "kill him", "treason" and "terrorist, I think she is.

She could never get away with this latent racist stuff up North, she has to get in front of her "Alaska rape capital, alcoholic oil linesmen, titty bar goin'" base, otherwise know as NASCAR Nation.

She is such the interloper.

Mostly I side with correct pronunciation, but the boundaries are blurry. Why, for example, do we say "Beijing" but not "Paree"? And some words are so universally mispronounced that if you pronounce them correctly, you risk being assumed wrong or not understood at all. My current favorite is "oxymoron" ("ock-ZYM-or-en", at least according to some).

Someone ought to start a movement to pronounce "Palin" with a short "a". This is how I guessed it was pronounced the first time I saw the name in print. If the rule is to pronounce the name just as some uninformed idiot thinks (like I was with Palin at first), this is the logical conclusion.

It's the U-nighted States of AMURica.

It's like they take pride in being ignorant. Heard that somewhere.

Daddy Bush pioneered strategic mispronunciation when he kept pronouncing "Saddam" to rhyme with "Adam".

Darn Tootin it just ain't right to say the name of a farin country that a ways..all pretty and stuff.

I sez it's downright Anteye-American and it prolly means yur a terist.

NO ONE pronounces countries the way the residents of those countries pronounce them.

Not here, not anywhere else. People just pronounce them in a way that rolls most easily off their native tongue, whatever it is.

Do the Chinese call their country "China"?

Do the Germans call their country "Germany"?

Does anyone outside the Hispanic world pronounce "Nicaragua" with the glottal "r" and the long "i"?

To insist on "correct" pronunciation is simply an ostentation. It really IS elitist, kind turning up your pinky. And like any ostentation, it tends to be irritating.

People pronounce things a certain way to make clear which group they identify with. When Bush or Palin say "nucular", they know full well that we "elitists" often complain about that, and they say it anyway. Likewise, the Fox people say "Democrat Party" just to piss us off. Pronouncing things correctly indicates a person who cares about facts, or about being right, and facts "have a well-known liberal bias".

How inconsequential in this category! I was delighted to see that Galloping Trollop commented on the Bush/Palin mispronunciation of the the word "NU CLE AR".That is in ex cu sa ble
in my view,however I haven't heard anything about that from anyone before now.

OH NOOO! I CAN'T VOTE FOR OBAMA NOW! PFFT....

I think it's just a matter of respect, and Obama happens to be a very respectful person. I mean, if you know the proper pronunciation of a country, why use the improper?... would we Americans appreciate people in foreign countries using the incorrect pronunciation of "America" if they were perfectly capable and knowing of the correct? It's just respect, and I think it's something that all of us ethnocentric Americans should learn to show a little more of to others!

Oh Geez Golly! Now whatever will the country do with a candidate actually pronouncing Pakistan correctly?
Yes, Obama gets it right - and that is how it is pronounced in the rest of the world - outside of red neck USA.
Pathetic!
And how about Mooselini dropping the g? Is that not in her alphabet soup? What next after creationism? Change the english language too??!!

While I can't stand right-wing dumbassery like "Eye-rack" and "nuke-u-lar" I have to confess that I do find Obama's constant use of "Pagh-iss-tahn" somewhat irritating. "Pack-iss-tan" is how it's pronounced here in the States. Really, it is. Not just in the Red states, but everywhere, even in the true-blue liberal northeast. I'd never heard anyone pronounce it "Pagh-iss-tahn" until Obama did it in the first debate.
____

Seriously? You don't know anyone who says it correctly? I guess I must be sheltered by being a former professor and having many past students and colleagues from all over the world. I thought anyone living in a decent sized city would hear the proper pronunciation on a fairly regular basis. At any rate, saying things the wrong way is one of many things that irritate the rest of the world about America, so I'm looking forward to having a President with some clue about that fact.

During the debate McCain "slipped" and pronounced it the same way. The next few times, he slowly morphed his pronounciation back to the wrong way. I thought it was a pretty funny moment actually, because I think he didn't intend to pronounce it like Barack had been.

John McCain will stand up for real American pronunciation when he defeats Sinner Obama and replaces--or should that be secedes?--Present Bush.

In my opinion, willfully mispronouncing these names is more than disrespectful, it is racist. People should be called by what THEY want to be called.

Captcrisis,

How hard is it to pronounce "Pakistan" correctly? Not hard. I don't speak Urdu or Pashto or Dari or any dialect of Arabic, and I can manage it. If it's no skin off your ass to pronounce a proper noun correctly, do so. To deliberately not do so makes you look like an ignorant halfwit.

In case you don't speak Mandarin Chinese, the proper name for China is "Zhongguo." It means "middle kingdom/country." That's how many Korean and Japanese speakers refer to China, because those languages have a strong Sino influence. The word "China" comes from the Qin ("Chin") dynasty, which was the earliest dynasty ruler of a unified China. Ergo, people used Qin, the name of the ruling family, to describe the country. Silk Road traders picked up on the word and have been using it ever since.

If you're going to mock pronounciation and etymology best know the difference between the two. It's not ostentation to take two minutes and find out how to speak correctly, especially in a country that boasts immigrants of every ethnicity.

"Why, for example, do we say "Beijing" but not 'Paree'?"

We don't. We say Beizhing and Beishing and Beizhshing.

I'm from North Carolina. Born here. Raised here. Only ever briefly lived elsewhere in my 35 years. This is where NASCAR was born, and Jesse Helms was our senator for longer than I care to recall. I consider myself a southerner and even have a bit of an accent. I'm pretty sick and tired of people equating ignorance with being from the south. The most outwardly racist and ignorant people I've met have been from the north east. I've had dinner with New Yorkers who casually drop 'the n word' as if it's to be assumed that nobody at the table should take offense because none of us were black. Yes, there are backwoods, jackass homophobic racists in the south, but let's not pretend that people from other parts of the country are equally (and possibly even more) racist than people from the south. I have no ties to the War of Northern Aggression, have never flown a Confederate Flag on my house (we don't all live in mobile homes), don't shoot animals, and I've always voted democrat. I can pronounce words the way I pronounce words and so long as I'm understood by those I'm trying to communicate with, what's the problem? My mom still says EYEtalian and I think it's cute, so phuuuquew you if you don't like it.

I remember Christianne Amanpour getting annoyed at people pronouncing Iraq as 'Eyeraq. It is pronounced 'Eeraq' and I totally agreed with he. It is only courteous to learn how to pronounce names properly.

Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe?

I'd rather be labeled "exotic" for pronouncing Pakistan "Pah-kih-stan" than be someone who always drops the "g" from every word ending with "-ing".

Know what I'm sayin', dog-gonnit!? [wink, wink]

I don't understand why someone is annoyed at the people in "flyover country" for their pronunciation of Pakistan. If you're already using the derogatory term "flyover country" for those folks, why would you expect them to pronounce Pakistan in your Officially Approved Manner? That's just stupid.

Surely, it isn't a bad thing in terms of our relationship to the Pakistani people (if not completely appropriate) that the leader of our nation would be the first to take the 'brave' step of learning how to pronounce their country's name correctly.

Talk about whining. Check out FOX complaining that Newsweek is unfavorable to Palin because they didn't RETOUCH her face. I'm not kidding...
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/index.php?cl=10091952

"Exotic", "Not like us", "That One"...do you think the McCain camp and its McCaniacs are trying to say something about Mr Obama's heritage?

A couple of things: I say "PACK-iss-tan," with the short a (the a as it's pronounced in the word ASH).

As it happens, this vilified pronunciation is listed first in the usagist Merriam-Webster's Tenth; the second pronunciation given is PAH-kiss-tahn. In other words, both are correct, both are employed by American English speakers. The first is more common than the second.

Having said this, I recognize that the second version sounds cooler, especially for those wishing to sound less parochial and who may also prefer the (incorrect) di-VIS-ive (short a) to the correct di-VI-sive (long a) because di-VISS-ive sounds cooler.

With PACK-is-tan, Americans are simply following innate phonetical rules for such syllables. Without any diacritical help, Americans will default to pronounce PAK (istan) as PACK (istan), not POCK (istan).

About McCain's "Wa(r)shington," this is a dead giveaway that McNasty spent his formative years as a Washington insider. I went to high school with fourth-generation Washingtonians, who used this same pronunciation.

Well, some of us in "fly-over" country DO pronounce Pakistan correctly-- those of us who have Pakistani American friends, co-workers & neighbors, and have heard their pronunciation cringe to hear it mangled.

It is relevant how people pronounce words. It makes them seem a bit more culturally sensitive, i.e. perhaps a bit less culturally arrogant... Like maybe they'd actually like to let the world know we are trying to understand them.

It's amazing how much time Americans spend speaking slowly and loudly to non-English speakers so they can understand us, or learn to "speak like us," and how we don't extend that same courtesy to others.

Mel said:
"former dan,
i thought it was more like 'uh-rock," but god forbid we should try to pronounce the names of the countries all them damn furriners come from like they do."

Over the years, I've worked with many, many people from Iran, and count them as my friends. If I were going to try to describe how they pronounce the name of their country - and that of heir neighbor, Iraq - I'd say to pronounce the "Ir" the way you would pronounce it in the word "irrigation". Then either "rock" or "ron".

Ir-rock. Ir-ron. No variation across the number of Iranians that I've known.

(BTW: as a freshman in college, I lived next door to a pair of guys from Kenya. The first week we were there, I asked them if it was pronounced "Ken-ya" or "Keen-ya". One answered one, one answered the other, and then they proceeded to argue about it in Swahili for five minutes :-)

My wife and I immigrated to Canada, 51 years ago
and I am being corrected on my pronouncing of
words correctly by Canadians and Americans. I
suppose that's the price one pays for having
a formal education and pronouncing word's
correctly.

Frankly, all BS aside, I think the way Obama pronounces Pakistan and Afghanistan is elitist and shows a worldly intellect which is as graceful and sweet as the falling snow.
Only the minds of the hateful and racist can find fault in this.

The underlining message of Obama's correct pronunciations is not that he's elitist, but rather, that he's uppity. It's a carryover from slavery with which even some African Americans are still afflicted. If an African American speaks correct English, he's "trying to be white".

The current situation proves that ignorance knows no color. By its very nature, ignorance cannot be, or act like, anything except that which is ignorant. What makes this so criminal is that our children are learning from these lessons being taught by all of us mature- responsible-patriotic-God bless America voters. Somehow, it all seems to make the Rev. (God Damn) America Wright a great prophet; because surely, we aren't giving God any reason to BLESS America.

Back to the comment from Ramki, "Back there, they do hear these things, and while they don't get offended when their country's name is mispronounced, they do feel positive about an American who does it right. And that sort of positive feeling is good thing in international relations, don't you think?"

He hit the nail on the head. Nothing "elitist" about showing respect I should think.

People look at me funny when I talk about Chico Marx of the Marx Brothers. He and his brothers pronounced it "Chick-0", like everyone back then I suppose, because he liked chasing chicks, but almost everybody now pronounces it "Cheek-0". When I explain they act like I'm some sort of know it all, or . . . elitest.

What drives me nuts is how Palin incorrectly and repeatedly says "nu-cu-lar," instead of 'nu-cle-ar,"just like Bush does. Why don't they ever get it straight?

A retroactive "thank you" to Ramki @ 5:16 for making my point long before I did (@ 6:25) while simultaneously providing a very effective 'case in point':

Back there, they do hear these things, and while they don't get offended when their country's name is mispronounced, they do feel positive about an American who does it right. And that sort of positive feeling is good thing in international relations, don't you think?

This flap is truly ironic. Shortly after Bush was elected, he went to a conference in Sweden. Suddenly everyone had to pronounce the name of the city he went to Goat borg. The city is spelled Goteborg (with an umlaut over the o) and pronounced something like yoo-ta-bo-ee. But most Swedes speak English, and when doing so, call it Gothenburg.

Yet how many of these right-wingers would get terribly upset if someone mispronounced their personal names or the name of their town or the name of their state wrong? Learning the correct pronunciation of names and then using them is to show respect, and it is just one of many reasons that the people of other countries esteem Barack Obama. There is the sense that a man courteous and intelligent enough to pay heed to little details will also be strong and confident enough to pay heed and understand issues of major importance. These people need to get over being threatened by anyone with more knowledge or a higher intellect, and start joining with those people to work for a better world.

Years ago, I worked with a woman from Iran. She found it irritating that Americans pronounced it "I ran" as opposed to "Ir-ahn". She was Iranian, so I figure she'd know how to pronounce her own country's name.

There's a certain type of American who revels in ignorance. God bless'em.

If you want a real laugh, Conservapedia's article on Obama cites his pronunciation of "Pokiston" as proof positive that he's a secret Muslim.

I have a friend from Pakistan. He pronounces it the same way Obama does. I'd say a person from Pakistan would know the correct pronunciation for his own country. Did anyone catch Sarah Palin saying "my kidses" during her "debate" with Biden? That's pretty bad grammer for a college educated person. The "Eye-Rack" thing has been bugging me for years. It's "Ear-rock."

This Republican affection for a lack of intellectual achievement is nothing new. Way back in 1970 Richard Nixon nominated to the Supreme Court an undistinguished and relatively unknown Florida judge, G. Harrold Carswell, and Democrats quickly attacked him as unqualified for the nation's highest legal position. Then Senator Roman Hruska from Nebraska roused himself to deliver a stirring, memorable defense of Carswell:

�Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they, and a little chance? We can’t have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos.�

Needless to say, this was damning with mighty faint praise, and Carswell's name was eventually withdrawn.

Ire-rack. Fits.

Oh for God's sake THE PRESIDENT SHOULD BE ELITIST!!! Why would we vote for your average "Joe Six-Pack" fresh off the barstool? Just because anybody *can* run for president doesn't mean anybody *should.*

I'm not voting for somebody to whom I can "relate" (that's right, I don't end my sentences with prepositions, either). The presidency should be something to which we elect the best of the best of the best. If anybody can do it, why did the current president screw up everything he touched?

The president should be better than me. And if he (or she) doesn't think s/he's better than me and can do a better job at running the frickin' country (that's what we're voting for, remember?) than me, why the hell should that person get my vote?

Hope someone teaches Sarah Palin how to pronounce nuclear soon!

"Hey GHANDI what do you mean?"

Actually, it's _Gandhi_.

I remember back in the Reagan years when correctly pronouncing "Nicaragua" would get you characterized as the worst sort of traitorous pinko commie. The Republicans pretend to make a virtue of ordinariness while they screw ordinary people every time they get the chance.

If military intelligence officers can take 5 seconds to ask me how to correctly pronounce the name of a foreign city or country, I don't think it's too much to ask that their future Commander in Chief do the same.

As it happens, this vilified pronunciation is listed first in the usagist Merriam-Webster's Tenth; the second pronunciation given is PAH-kiss-tahn. In other words, both are correct, both are employed by American English speakers. The first is more common than the second.Posted by: paxr55

No.

Some English dictionaries claim that "kimona" is an acceptable variation on kimono. The hell it is! That's like still trying to pass off Peking as an acceptable variation of Beijing. Sure, if you're some stuck-in-the-imperialist-British-world of the 19th Century.

Next to redneck Americans, the Brits are notorious for purposefully mangling country and place names as a way of showing disrespect. They practically wrote the book on racist and demeaning names for anyone not British - niggers, wops, wogs, dago, krauts, etc.

Fucking up place or given name pronunciation if not a sign of ignorance is done to show disrespect or, at the very least, disregard.

Well golly, I think he should be sayin' Pak-is-Tan, like all the rest of us (wink). I mean, gee whiz, if he's such an elitist what will the Eye-Rayne-Eans think? It'll be like Eye-Rack all over again, maybe even havin' a nookyoolar war! Well, God Bless America (I read that on a Starbucks coffee cup)..wink wink.
What a stupid article. With all that's going on in this country right now, you clowns have nothing else to write about?

What a boneheaded idiotic article. He pronounce the name of the country correctly. Most Americans don't. It's like Obama said " it's as if they take pride in being ignorant".

To the trailer-court Nazis, armchair Crusaders, and all the other knuckle-draggers in this part of the world, it really doesn't matter how you pronounce Pakistan or Iraq or any of those faraway places. They have one word for all of them. It starts with "n".

Since when did being educated and pronouncing words the right way make someone "elitist"? The way Obama pronounces Pakistan is the CORRECT way. I didn't realize that there is a certain fashion to pronouncing foreign names/countries. It's absolutely ridiculous.

The republican ticket in 2012: a guy named Cletus and an adorable puppy. Can't miss!

The stupidity of the right wing knows no bounds. Only a moron would embrace the improper pronunciation of a word. Bush, Palin and the rest of the right wing idiots have dumbed down this country with "nuke-u-lar", "eye-rack" and "eye-ran".

Question for them: what purpose is served by pronouncing somethng incorrectly? Is it more American to be wrong?

I don't begrudge someone who says "Pack-istan", but to proudly condemn as "elite" someone who says it properly? Republicans are truly a lower life form.

And when we are in a foreign country we should use local pronunciations
Mexico-Amereeka
Thailand - United or Merika
UK- Colonies

Since when is it high falutin to actually pronounce something correctly instead of the way the locals pronounce it? Brooks is right. Republicans are becoming a party of people who reject persons who have actually tried to educate themselves, read a few books and develop some new ides. This is not the party of Reagan who, in the words of Brooks, had an immense faith in the power of ideas.

So, is it A-men or Ah-men?

"The right's anti-intellectualism seems to be getting worse, doesn't it?"

Yes, well, when the best you've got is a deranged and cranky old man who refers to his base voters as "my fellow prisoners" and a woman who could not find New Hampshire, much less Pakistan, on a map and believes in witches and that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth together I suppose that there's not much left

Right-wing anti-intellectualism isn't new, it's just now they have a spokesmodel to make it seem OK. No previous candidate celebrated the worst of our nation quite like Ms. Palin, but I think she's too stupid to know it.

"I'm from North Carolina. Born here. Raised here. Only ever briefly lived elsewhere in my 35 years. This is where NASCAR was born, and Jesse Helms was our senator for longer than I care to recall. I consider myself a southerner and even have a bit of an accent. I'm pretty sick and tired of people equating ignorance with being from the south. The most outwardly racist and ignorant people I've met have been from the north east. I've had dinner with New Yorkers who casually drop 'the n word' as if it's to be assumed that nobody at the table should take offense because none of us were black. Yes, there are backwoods, jackass homophobic racists in the south, but let's not pretend that people from other parts of the country are equally (and possibly even more) racist than people from the south. I have no ties to the War of Northern Aggression, have never flown a Confederate Flag on my house (we don't all live in mobile homes), don't shoot animals, and I've always voted democrat. I can pronounce words the way I pronounce words and so long as I'm understood by those I'm trying to communicate with, what's the problem? My mom still says EYEtalian and I think it's cute, so phuuuquew you if you don't like it."

I understand your irritation, but considering that your region is consistently red on the electoral map, I find myself lacking sympathy. I'm sorry. I'm afraid there might be a bit more ignorance festering there than in any other region of the country.

Regarding Obama's pronunciation: Some of his schooling years were spent in Indonesia. He might have learned correct pronunciation of Muslim countries there. And as Ramki said, it can only win us points internationally if we pronouce the names of other countries correctly.

And people of similar ilk can't say nuclear.

Barack Obama pronounces Pakistan CORRECTLY! Just because Americans-at-large mispronounce nearly every word of the English language it is refreshing to hear someone who does not. Sarah Palin seems to be pleased with herself every time she speaks or might I say screeches. Just listen to her atrocious pronunciation(s). Her delight seems evident by that Chesher Cat grin she has pasted on her less than truthful lips. In my view it is a new low by the GOP to attempt to claw back into the race. Don't they realize it's too late?

Who cares how TEAM-UNSTABLE and UNABLE pronounce any country's name, or their leader's names...it's not like it's going to come up when they return to their jobs as Senator and Governor.

Revel in your ignorance, bask in your stupidity, and wallow in your BITTERNESS as Miss Runner Up, and Miss Congeniality.

Earlier in this campaign, the whole country was loudly and clearly told how to pronounce NEVADA, and informed that anybody who didn't was showing disrespect to the state and would likely lose votes as a result. And it is not just ignorance but a certain kind of imperial arrogance (typical of the "Empire State") when New Yorkers, for example, profess not to know or care where South Dakota is, as if that is a proper way to treat a "backwater" or "flyover" like South Dakota.

The issue is not cosmopolitan sophistication and its enemies. The issue is simple courtesy. If you don't want to be treated with contempt, don't treat others that way.

Earlier in this campaign, the whole country was loudly and clearly told how to pronounce NEVADA, and informed that anybody who didn't was showing disrespect to the state and would likely lose votes as a result. And it is not just ignorance but a certain kind of imperial arrogance (typical of the "Empire State") when New Yorkers, for example, profess not to know or care where South Dakota is, as if that is a proper way to treat a "backwater" or "flyover" like South Dakota.

The issue is not cosmopolitan sophistication and its enemies. The issue is simple courtesy. If you don't want to be treated with contempt, don't treat others that way.

Thank you baby jesus for letting me be born in Canada.

As parents who have a daughter adopted from Kazakhstan, we can say it is a relief that Obama actually pronounces the country of Pakistan correctly. Our daughter wages a constant war against Americans unaware and uncaring of the correct pronunciation of the "stan" countries. Hurray for Obama! About time.

I live in Texas, where mispronouncing words is a competitive sporting event. It is, put simply, less ignorance- more disdain. The best way to show disrespect is intentional, but deliberate mispronunciation. Examples:

LBJ - Knee-gras - Negros
LBJ - Vee-it - naam
Local Towns - May-neer (Manor), Ell-ghine (Elgin), Re-phurg-gio (Refurgio), Pell-at-chez, (Palacios), Bow-gat-ta,(Bogota), Man - shack - aw, (Manchaca)

And a favorite of mine: Corpus Christi... who, in their right mind, names a city "dead body of Jesus"?

This is unbelievable! If you travel outside the United States you WILL find out that Obama's pronunciation is CORRECT... my husband and I lived as MISSIONARIES overseas.. (nothing elite about that) for a number of years and we came home pronouncing Iraq, Pakistan and many other words "correctly"... you learn... but.. along with the above mentioned "inanity" of this... I am concerned about something more.. does anyone remember things like the Khmer Rouge and other Communist organizations / regimes and takeovers where EDUCATION of all sorts became the enemy?? Maybe we should stop and think about that before we allow ourselves to go too far down this road... what a sad sad way to destroy our great country....and all it once stood for.

The right wing thinks it's cute to alternately pronounce the word "liberal" as either tray-tor, comm-you-nist, or un-pay-tree-ot-ick.

The right's anti-intellectualism seems to be getting worse, doesn't it?

Wasn't it bad enough when GHWBush pronounced it Sa-Damn Hussein?

My pet peeve is anyone whose pet peeve is in fact based on bad information. For instance, to the poster up above, the first pronunciation of 'err' listed on Merriam-Webster is in fact 'air'.

Just because someone mispronounces or correctly pronounces a word makes them no more intelligent or dumber than another. I agree that things SHOULD be pronounced correctly but I see a lot of "intellectuals" here defending smugness rather than being intellectualism. We all agree we call Japan, japan, yet the real name of how the country should be is usually Nihon or Nippon.

Sorry both sides are wrong, please stop being tools..

Baah,

Nothing ain't been right in this world since them leebral media eleets stopped callin' Peking Peking!

BAY-JING? WTF?

Next thing we gonna see is Bombay Gin renamed Mumbay Gin.

I swears, that's gonna happen if you all elect that black irish muslum feller Hussain O'Bama

I think there's been an unfortunate confusion between populism and stupid. People who wanted more rights for farmers or workers, instead of bankers, were not against reading, free speech, geography, or the Constitution. And that is where I think the GOP perhaps has erred. I don't think Americans are dumb, or like dumbness. I think that's just what has been served up to them, for about thirty or forty years, on the TV.

Petraeus pronounces it POCK-i-stan:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/08/obama-pakistan/

I HATE people who revel in ignorance and think stupidity is some sort of badge of honor. We've had stupid for 8 years and you know what? Stupid is worse than evil. Because things were not this bad when Nixon was president.

Ok, so Pahk-is-tan bothered them, but this did not?

That’s why I say, I like ever American I’m speaking with were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the tax payers looking to bailout.

But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Helping the — Oh, it’s got to be about job creation too. Shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americas. A

And trade we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive scary thing. But 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. ALl those things under the umbrella of job creation.

This bailout is a part of that.

Hmmm...go figure.

Ok, so Pahk-is-tan bothered them, but this did not?

That’s why I say, I like ever American I’m speaking with were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the tax payers looking to bailout.

But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Helping the — Oh, it’s got to be about job creation too. Shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americas. A

And trade we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive scary thing. But 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. ALl those things under the umbrella of job creation.

This bailout is a part of that.

Hmmm...go figure.

Hahaha, the repubics can't help being racistas.

My pet peeve is anyone whose pet peeve is in fact based on bad information. For instance, to the poster up above, the first pronunciation of 'err' listed on Merriam-Webster is in fact 'air'.
Posted by: Jimbolaya

Yup. Err is from the word error, which is not pronounced uror or urur. If you must dress-up the pronunciation, go for air-or rather than air-ur.

Palin pronounces "Iraq" wrong.

Correct pronunciation "Viet-NAM."

...and he takes vacations in exotic havaii.

We all agree we call Japan, japan, yet the real name of how the country should be is usually Nihon or Nippon. Posted by: Marcelo

Tell the Japanese that. They adopted the Chinese pronunciation - Jzerpan or there abouts, from the Chinese characters that they Japanese use.

Next thing we gonna see is Bombay Gin renamed Mumbay Gin.Posted by:

Actually, that would be Mumbai.

Of course, if anyone were to pronounce "the United States of America" wrongly, these same goons would be all over them claiming it indicated ignorance, not qualified to speak on the USA etc. GWB only gets away with "U-narted Stets of 'mrka" because he's Prez.

It's symptomatic of the US exceptionalism that says we can pronounce your name any way we like, because we're rich and powerful. (we can also invade you and interfere with your domestic democratic processes, stuff over your economy, ....)

I'm pretty sure (94%) that in the first debate McCain himself pronounced Pakistan the correct way shortly after Obama had said it. Pockistan.
I guess McCain, like Obama and Biden, is an intellectual snob unfit for leadership. That leaves just one candidate qualified to lead our nation.
Come to think of it, Palin was pronounce Pollin by a lot of conservatives in the early goings. You gotta love dumbsh*ts. They'd be a lot more entertaining if they weren't so dangerous.

...and he takes vacations in exotic havaii.
Posted by: jz

Actually, that would be Havai'i.

and it's yan mccahn and sayra pahleen, or better ahhsoles

and it's yan mccahn and sayra pahleen, or better yet, ahhsoles

I have read enough blogs to where I am now discerning about which ones I lend my time. Shockingly, this ridiculous topic has entertained me. The bottom lines goes back to what the gentleman from India (Ramki) said...be courteous enough to use the correct pronunciation if you know it. If you don't, no harm no foul. I mean really, why wasn't this an issue when the Terminator held his gubernatorial race. How many Americans have conformed to his dialect when repeating, "I'll be bach". Even better, is he not American - ergo, his dialect is now another "American" dialect. Do you consider the Louisiana "Coon-Ass" Frenchmen??? Nope…they're just funny talkin' Americans who speak French. By the way Mr. Ramki, I apologize for gregor. He is mostly likely a decendent of Egor and is trying to mask it by adding "Gr" to the front of his name.

and it's yan mccahn and sayra pahleen, or better yet, ahhsoles

I have read enough blogs to where I am now discerning about which ones I lend my time. Shockingly, this ridiculous topic has entertained me. The bottom lines goes back to what the gentleman from India (Ramki) said...be courteous enough to use the correct pronunciation if you know it. If you don't, no harm no foul. I mean really, why wasn't this an issue when the Terminator held his gubernatorial race. How many Americans have conformed to his dialect when repeating, "I'll be bach". Even better, is he not American - ergo, his dialect is now another "American" dialect. Do you consider the Louisiana "Coon-Ass" Frenchmen??? Nope…they're just funny talkin' Americans who speak French. By the way Mr. Ramki, I apologize for gregor. He is mostly likely a decendent of Egor and is trying to mask it by adding "Gr" to the front of his name.

Thank you baby jesus for letting me be born in Canada. Posted by: Nathan

Nathan wins the thread!

* * * * *

And, hey Mr./Mrs./Ms. moderator, what the fuck's up with this?

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...at least you don't live in Colliefornia

I sometimes wonder if George WASHington, after whom our Capital is named, is bothered by the fact that John "Zinger" McC^nt seems incapable of pronouncing the name correctly. Is calling the District of Columbia "WARSHington" supposed to demonstrate an outsider authenticity?

It's "E" ron. Not "I" ron, and it's Pahkistan, not Pakistan. If you are a diplomat of the U.S. like Palin professes she is capable of being, then for god's sake say it right in front of the world. It's a small thing to ask after 8 years of Bush's embarrassing blunders.

I like the fact that Obama is smart enough to know the difference and has the mental acumen to pronounce words correctly. It means he's not lazy, like Bush & Palin.

Why do we need illiterate ignoramus's to run the country? So we feel comfortable eating hotdogs around the grill with them? Oh goodie.

I'm from Pakistan. Obama pronounces it correctly.

It always amazes me how ignorant arrogant Americans repeatedly mispronounce foreign names---you know, Sa-damn, eye-raq, pack-istan, etc., and then attack people who have enough respect to pronounce these words correctly. At minimum, have enough respect to at least make the ATTEMPT!

So why don't we say Paree? Right?

"To insist on "correct" pronunciation is simply an ostentation. It really IS elitist, kind turning up your pinky."

No one is insisting, just pointing out the idiocy of calling someone elite because for choosing to pronounce a country correctly.

Why wouldn't this same mockery be applied to Lance Armstrong and countless US reporters for saying "Tour de Fronce" instead of "France" with the short "a" sound?

Great, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pakistan pronounces it wrong. Weird.

You'd think you'd let the locals of some place tell you how to pronounce it.

Bush Republicans love wearing their stupidity and ignorance as a badge of honor from a bye-gone era. Fake fiscal conservatives and make-believe mavericks like Sarah "The Witch Hunter" Palin are void of integrity, morality, honor or ideas. What a Bunch of Losers...

I get a kick out of McCain's pronunciation of "citizens" as priz-un-urs.

The man is too old to be president. And you don't have to take my word for it - that's a direct quote from my 72-year-old mom.

This is a non-issue, which are the only things the right wing have left to stir up. See, they can't talk about the issues that are worrying the majority of the American people, because they have no plan for the country, so they bring up shit that doesn't matter - like how Senator Obama pronouces Pakistan.

Really? Good Lord, people.

This is a non-issue, which are the only things the right wing have left to stir up. See, they can't talk about the issues that are worrying the majority of the American people, because they have no plan for the country, so they bring up shit that doesn't matter - like how Senator Obama pronouces Pakistan.

Really? Good Lord, people.

First, a comment:

When the electorate have adopted a knee-jerk dislike for education and intellectualism, it makes it much easier to say things like "there's no proof that global warming is caused by greenhouse gases". It's a means to an end (and it looks like it's been depressingly effective).

Now, a joke:

A freshman at Harvard is walking across campus and asks an upperclassman, "Excuse me, could you tell me where the library is at?" The upperclassman responds, "My dear man, this is Harvard and at Harvard we speak correctly. It is not correct to end a sentence with a preposition." The freshman replies, "Then could you tell me where the library is at, ASSHOLE?"

(and if the joke contradicts the comment, so what?)

And why is it insane for Fox to pay Hannity $20M a year? Either they can afford it or they can't. If they can, then he and his humorless wingnut whining become the defining trait of Fox, further marginalizing the network. If they can't, then Fox is basically bankrupting themselves. Sounds fine to me.

"[O]ne thing I like about Sarah Palin is the way she says 'Eye-raq'."

Yeah, that's going to go over big when she meets with their national leaders.

It's funny how some black people are dogged for using "ebonics", but it's okay for white conservatives to speak like uneducated hacks because it's "cute".

Heaven forbid that he should honor another country by pronouncing the name of that country correctly. Apart from exhibiting his intelligence, wouldn't that kind of respect be of benefit in negotiating with their leaders?

However, consider that it is not such a strange, elitist thing for him to use the soft "a" in pronouncing Pakistan or a hard "e" in pronouncing Iraq. The man was raised in Hawaii, exposed to the Hawaiian language, and that is exactly how these vowels are pronounced in Hawaiian. He's also been exposed to the Japanese language here in Hawaii -- same pronunciation of these vowels. The point is this country has real problems, s